I love when achievements are built into the game. When they're account wide they're fun but also one and done. When they're built in, you can wipe your save and get them all again! It's great.
On Steam there's no native way to remove achievements, but it's nice when a game provides a button or something that'll remove achievements from your account
Something i like about progression achievements is that it lets you know how many people have the game, but never finished the tutorial. It's always a shocking amount
I love when there is an achievement for basically "starting a playthrough" cuase it lets me know what date my time with a game started. I checked out my Dark Souls achievements recently and saw my achievment for lighting my first bonfire, something you do before you meet any enemies or bosses, and it was almost 10 years ago! And all the achievements after for all the various bosses show me how long it took me to progress. I love that stuff
two situations where achievements change the game are rogue likes, that often add more items to the loot pool based on achievements, and there's this system that I saw some Chinese games use, namely "Tales of immortal" and "Hero's journey:road to passion", where each achievement gives you achievement points that you use to allocate stat points and traits at the start of your next playthrough. it let you have more options early that you couldn't do before especially in a CRPG like hero's journey.
3:50 Nintendo has actually made an official statement. I don't remember where it was said, probably by Iwata in the early Wii U era, but their belief is that, achievements do not enhance every game equally, so they don't want devs to feel like they are required because the system has them baked in - after all, that's how you end up with achievements that are all "get to this point in the game" rather than doing interesting things. They *have* said that if a dev does think their game is enhanced by an achievement system, the dev is allowed to - and encouraged to - put it in the game itself. Like Miitopia does! Edit to add: So, after finishing the video (in which you came to basically the conclusion I put above), and then sitting in bed thinking about it for a while, I think I have a system Nintendo should use. I originally conceptualized the system as three pips - one bronze, one silver, one gold - that could be attached to each game. The developers would decide where to give players each pip. Maybe it's for doing specific things, maybe it happens naturally over the course of the game. My thought was, in Pokémon Scarlet/Violet base game, the bronze pip would be given for beating any one of the three routes, the silver pip would be given for seeing the credits after beating all four routes, and then the gold pip would be given for completing the Pokedex. These pips would be visible to other players on the activity screen that the Switch already has. And if developers don't pre-define any pips, then the system would just give a single gold pip for seeing the credits. And then I realized: Nintendo owns Zelda, and the Triforce is a thing. What if instead of bronze/silver/gold, it's the three pieces of the Triforce - or less obviously, the pendants associated with their respective virtues? Going back to Pokémon, give players the Pendant of Power for doing one route, the Pendant of Courage for seeing the credits, and the Pendant of Wisdom for learning about every species of Pokémon. And if a game doesn't have any flag sets, just give the player a...purple pendant with all three symbols in it, when they reach the credits. This enables players to show off what they've done in game to each other, without forcing devs to add achievements into a game that doesn't benefit from them. And if devs really don't want to think about it, they don't have to and the console still has a mark for them!
7:28 I can't speak for every dev but in our team the reason for progression achievements is data collection. our game is divided into chapters so we had an achievement for each one completed. we'd then check at which point did the players have a massive drop. if 90% completed chapter 3 but only 30% completed 4 then it obviously needed adjustment. the cons to this is how inaccurate they are since we can't take them away after an update, but implementing our own data collection would mean getting into the murky waters of EU law. also it made for a bit of sunk cost. during our testing without the progression achievements players would have something like (1/12) and not feel motivated but padding it out (13/24) made them achievement hunt more often since they were 'halfway there'.
7:31 I think it's two-fold 1) Because as you say it give people a dopamine rush 2) For devs to see how far people get in their game and any points where people tend to leave 8:29 Yeah I agree, I wonder if it's to try to get people to search around the game more for any random thing (more playtime) I like achievements they're a cool thing to have, I do wish Nintendo added them I'd prob play on the switch more often if it was the case
if you do more video essays like this, simple yet complicated, ill jump on every one of them. the insight as wall as the basic recap is really nice. the variation of games mentioned is really cool, too.
7:30 they probably exist for educational purposes. Devs could analyse how much of their playerbase beat certain parts and let's them know if the game has difficulty spikes, etc..
Achievements are fun. They give you a sense of accomplishment and you can strive to get them. They also have special gimmicks that you need to get them
Hey. absoloutely deranged fan of the ori series here. I'm currently on my 4th replaythrough of the ori series and can confirm a few of the achievements are actually bull and i will never go for them. I do recommend the no spirit light one for blind forest though, was more fun than i expected.
I did not expect to see footage of Phoenotopia Awakening out in the wild. Since we're talking about achievements, I'll share my thoughts on PhoA's achievement system. 1. The fact that you get little rewards for each achievement in the form of concept art is great. It rewards dedication to the game with secrets of its inner workings. 2. Each achievement has some connection to a character in the story, without explicitly mentioning what it is, which in itself feels like a little easter egg or inside joke that you get rewarded with by knowing the characters well. 3. Many games do this, but having different tiers of the same achievement gives a nice feeling of progression. (Bronze, Silver, Gold) 4. My one complaint: having to manually go to the achievement page and open the 'present box' to unlock the achievement in steam feels clunky.
Great take on the subject! I just want to add that I think achievements can be dangerous for some people who are addicted to them by buying games they have zero interest in just to raise the score. I also want to advertise how old I am by saying Ace Combat 5 on PS2 had achievements in the form of medals. The description for earning some of those medals is extremely vague.
I like achievements as they tend to extend one-and-done games. I recently played Donut County and beat it in about an hour and a half or so, but I got just that little bit more out of the game by replaying levels and trying to figure out how to unlock the achievements. There have been plenty of games where I got that extra hour or two out of them because of achievements (and there are games I've gotten dozens if not hundreds of extra hours like those in the Borderlands series because I was achievement hunting). Done right, they really add value for money by adding some replayability and optional challenges. That said, I really hate online achievements, as they become permanently locked if a game dies. Also, it's funny that Nintendo doesn't make achievements, but exclusive games like Xenoblade Chronicles and the Bayonetta sequels build them into the games anyway. It's like the devs really want to use them even if Nintendo said no.
I think it's dumb that achievments are tied to your profile and not your save file. I like to 100% games multiple times but I kinda just disregard the arbitrary achievments the second time. If the game doesn't care, why should I?
Exophase kind of solves your last point. kind of... Doesn't seem to have nintendo integration outside of playtime given that well... there isn't an achievement system to integrate with. And idk how it combines stuff from multiple platforms, but it at the very least puts it all in one place and gives you a cumulative score between them all
I disagree that achievements are just for bragging... they are a general piece of information, with lots of possible uses: suggesting additional goals, conveying secrets, a nod from devs to players, a joke, etc... they are a designed feature as any mechanic, the devs talk to the player through them... now, the act of having them displayed in your profile as badges, yes, that's pretty much for bragging
There's a lot of things to be unpacked here and TBH I honestly wanna make my own video about the topic sooner or later, but... A) While yes, it seems strange for a game to reward you simply for playing it, something that's rather alarming is how many players... don't. When I look at games I have beaten, less than 10% of people who played the same games made it to the roll credits. They gave up halfway through. I feel like it is important for the developers to incentivize players to want to keep pushing past obstacles and growing, and the best way to do that is the expectation of a reward at the end. 2) That fact that 100% completion *isn't* the end of a game is very, very important to highlight. Just because you can do the max number of things on a single save doesn't mean there won't be incentive replaying the game on a harder difficulty or New Game+, or simply restarting the game to run it with an entirely different approach. The Fallout games wouldn't be as popular if they didn't incentivize replaying the game several times to unlock all the endings, and each time, changing your character build in some way. IMO, it's really just the Dev's way of testing how much BS the player is willing to go through in a game they payed $50 to $120 for. And if a player isn't wiling to do it, well... Yeah...
I have a specific bone to pick with the witcher 3 and a few other games for having cross save between pc and switch, but no way to sync achievements between systems, so I loved playing the witcher in bed or on the bus, but I knew the entire time I did that I was missing out on achievments. I then made this even worse fir myself by getting the game+DLC bundle on GoG, so now my achievments are split between steam and gog, and the rest are lost to the aether on switch xD I now have a steam deck and all is well achievment wise. I can play in bed as much as I want and know they will all be synced up
Long CRPGs like Dos2 are funny to look at progression achievements because you can tell who is a fan favorite character and who sucks. If I remember correctly, beasts path has the lowest achievement %
![Getting Every Single Minecraft Bedrock Achievement [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/20bQnWC2m1s/mqdefault.jpg)
I love when achievements are built into the game. When they're account wide they're fun but also one and done. When they're built in, you can wipe your save and get them all again! It's great.
On Steam there's no native way to remove achievements, but it's nice when a game provides a button or something that'll remove achievements from your account
Something i like about progression achievements is that it lets you know how many people have the game, but never finished the tutorial. It's always a shocking amount
"Complete the Tutorial", 74%
I love when there is an achievement for basically "starting a playthrough" cuase it lets me know what date my time with a game started.
I checked out my Dark Souls achievements recently and saw my achievment for lighting my first bonfire, something you do before you meet any enemies or bosses, and it was almost 10 years ago! And all the achievements after for all the various bosses show me how long it took me to progress. I love that stuff
you can also see how many percentages of players stopped playing at a certain time in the game
@@GenerallyBananas yeah I now know it took me 7 years from the day I started playing minecraft to the day I beat it
two situations where achievements change the game are rogue likes, that often add more items to the loot pool based on achievements, and there's this system that I saw some Chinese games use, namely "Tales of immortal" and "Hero's journey:road to passion", where each achievement gives you achievement points that you use to allocate stat points and traits at the start of your next playthrough. it let you have more options early that you couldn't do before especially in a CRPG like hero's journey.
3:50 Nintendo has actually made an official statement. I don't remember where it was said, probably by Iwata in the early Wii U era, but their belief is that, achievements do not enhance every game equally, so they don't want devs to feel like they are required because the system has them baked in - after all, that's how you end up with achievements that are all "get to this point in the game" rather than doing interesting things.
They *have* said that if a dev does think their game is enhanced by an achievement system, the dev is allowed to - and encouraged to - put it in the game itself. Like Miitopia does!
Edit to add: So, after finishing the video (in which you came to basically the conclusion I put above), and then sitting in bed thinking about it for a while, I think I have a system Nintendo should use.
I originally conceptualized the system as three pips - one bronze, one silver, one gold - that could be attached to each game. The developers would decide where to give players each pip. Maybe it's for doing specific things, maybe it happens naturally over the course of the game. My thought was, in Pokémon Scarlet/Violet base game, the bronze pip would be given for beating any one of the three routes, the silver pip would be given for seeing the credits after beating all four routes, and then the gold pip would be given for completing the Pokedex. These pips would be visible to other players on the activity screen that the Switch already has. And if developers don't pre-define any pips, then the system would just give a single gold pip for seeing the credits.
And then I realized: Nintendo owns Zelda, and the Triforce is a thing. What if instead of bronze/silver/gold, it's the three pieces of the Triforce - or less obviously, the pendants associated with their respective virtues? Going back to Pokémon, give players the Pendant of Power for doing one route, the Pendant of Courage for seeing the credits, and the Pendant of Wisdom for learning about every species of Pokémon. And if a game doesn't have any flag sets, just give the player a...purple pendant with all three symbols in it, when they reach the credits.
This enables players to show off what they've done in game to each other, without forcing devs to add achievements into a game that doesn't benefit from them. And if devs really don't want to think about it, they don't have to and the console still has a mark for them!
I mean that's a silly and poor excuse, just have an achievement system that devs aren't required to use like on Steam.
7:28 I can't speak for every dev but in our team the reason for progression achievements is data collection. our game is divided into chapters so we had an achievement for each one completed. we'd then check at which point did the players have a massive drop. if 90% completed chapter 3 but only 30% completed 4 then it obviously needed adjustment.
the cons to this is how inaccurate they are since we can't take them away after an update, but implementing our own data collection would mean getting into the murky waters of EU law.
also it made for a bit of sunk cost. during our testing without the progression achievements players would have something like (1/12) and not feel motivated but padding it out (13/24) made them achievement hunt more often since they were 'halfway there'.
7:31 I think it's two-fold
1) Because as you say it give people a dopamine rush
2) For devs to see how far people get in their game and any points where people tend to leave
8:29 Yeah I agree, I wonder if it's to try to get people to search around the game more for any random thing (more playtime)
I like achievements they're a cool thing to have, I do wish Nintendo added them I'd prob play on the switch more often if it was the case
if you do more video essays like this, simple yet complicated, ill jump on every one of them. the insight as wall as the basic recap is really nice. the variation of games mentioned is really cool, too.
7:30
they probably exist for educational purposes. Devs could analyse how much of their playerbase beat certain parts and let's them know if the game has difficulty spikes, etc..
I really enjoy getting progression achievements on top of actual challenge achievements, and I like to see the percentage of people beating the games
rain world does achievements perfectly imo. achievements are for monumental tasks, like finishing a campaign or killing every lizard in 1 campaign
cassette beasts!
Achievements are fun. They give you a sense of accomplishment and you can strive to get them. They also have special gimmicks that you need to get them
"a digital reward that signifies a player's mastery of a specific task or challenge within a video game"
RobTop: die 400.000 times to unlock an icon
I mean,. you MASTERED dying! if you were to die again, you'd know EXACTLY how it goes and how to do it best!
Robtop: win the lottery (get a rated level)
Noita takes achievements to the extreme.
They are extremely difficult to obtain
Hey. absoloutely deranged fan of the ori series here. I'm currently on my 4th replaythrough of the ori series and can confirm a few of the achievements are actually bull and i will never go for them. I do recommend the no spirit light one for blind forest though, was more fun than i expected.
I like achievements 😀 (i am probably biased i am an achievement hunter)
I did not expect to see footage of Phoenotopia Awakening out in the wild. Since we're talking about achievements, I'll share my thoughts on PhoA's achievement system.
1. The fact that you get little rewards for each achievement in the form of concept art is great. It rewards dedication to the game with secrets of its inner workings.
2. Each achievement has some connection to a character in the story, without explicitly mentioning what it is, which in itself feels like a little easter egg or inside joke that you get rewarded with by knowing the characters well.
3. Many games do this, but having different tiers of the same achievement gives a nice feeling of progression. (Bronze, Silver, Gold)
4. My one complaint: having to manually go to the achievement page and open the 'present box' to unlock the achievement in steam feels clunky.
Great take on the subject! I just want to add that I think achievements can be dangerous for some people who are addicted to them by buying games they have zero interest in just to raise the score. I also want to advertise how old I am by saying Ace Combat 5 on PS2 had achievements in the form of medals. The description for earning some of those medals is extremely vague.
6:30
if Nintendo thinks achievements enhances their games they just make in-game achievements (Super Smash Bros series, Luigi's Mansion 3, etc...)
I detest achievements, and have bought some games on Nintendo systems specifically because that was the version with no achievements.
if this is the quality of video that will get someone to 20 thousand subscribers, there's hope for all of us
I like achievements as they tend to extend one-and-done games. I recently played Donut County and beat it in about an hour and a half or so, but I got just that little bit more out of the game by replaying levels and trying to figure out how to unlock the achievements. There have been plenty of games where I got that extra hour or two out of them because of achievements (and there are games I've gotten dozens if not hundreds of extra hours like those in the Borderlands series because I was achievement hunting). Done right, they really add value for money by adding some replayability and optional challenges. That said, I really hate online achievements, as they become permanently locked if a game dies.
Also, it's funny that Nintendo doesn't make achievements, but exclusive games like Xenoblade Chronicles and the Bayonetta sequels build them into the games anyway. It's like the devs really want to use them even if Nintendo said no.
new ivon upload peak content indeed
The solution to steam and switch not sharing achievements is simple and elegant: the Steam Deck...
I think it's dumb that achievments are tied to your profile and not your save file. I like to 100% games multiple times but I kinda just disregard the arbitrary achievments the second time. If the game doesn't care, why should I?
The Binding of Isaac: Rebirth (and its dlcs) does this, and rewards 100% completion on all 3 save files with flair
Exophase kind of solves your last point. kind of... Doesn't seem to have nintendo integration outside of playtime given that well... there isn't an achievement system to integrate with. And idk how it combines stuff from multiple platforms, but it at the very least puts it all in one place and gives you a cumulative score between them all
I disagree that achievements are just for bragging... they are a general piece of information, with lots of possible uses: suggesting additional goals, conveying secrets, a nod from devs to players, a joke, etc... they are a designed feature as any mechanic, the devs talk to the player through them... now, the act of having them displayed in your profile as badges, yes, that's pretty much for bragging
There's a lot of things to be unpacked here and TBH I honestly wanna make my own video about the topic sooner or later, but...
A) While yes, it seems strange for a game to reward you simply for playing it, something that's rather alarming is how many players... don't. When I look at games I have beaten, less than 10% of people who played the same games made it to the roll credits. They gave up halfway through. I feel like it is important for the developers to incentivize players to want to keep pushing past obstacles and growing, and the best way to do that is the expectation of a reward at the end.
2) That fact that 100% completion *isn't* the end of a game is very, very important to highlight. Just because you can do the max number of things on a single save doesn't mean there won't be incentive replaying the game on a harder difficulty or New Game+, or simply restarting the game to run it with an entirely different approach. The Fallout games wouldn't be as popular if they didn't incentivize replaying the game several times to unlock all the endings, and each time, changing your character build in some way.
IMO, it's really just the Dev's way of testing how much BS the player is willing to go through in a game they payed $50 to $120 for. And if a player isn't wiling to do it, well... Yeah...
Everhood has an achievement for walking down an empty hallway for 4 hours... I'm not joking
The switch not having achievements is obviously a conspiracy by the Pokémon company to cut corners on Pokemon Scarlet and Violet.
I saw the notification and I thought I was delulu omg so nice 👽👍
I have a specific bone to pick with the witcher 3 and a few other games for having cross save between pc and switch, but no way to sync achievements between systems, so I loved playing the witcher in bed or on the bus, but I knew the entire time I did that I was missing out on achievments. I then made this even worse fir myself by getting the game+DLC bundle on GoG, so now my achievments are split between steam and gog, and the rest are lost to the aether on switch xD
I now have a steam deck and all is well achievment wise. I can play in bed as much as I want and know they will all be synced up
Great video! it deserves more views :D
if we wait 30 years the switch will be retro and be on retroachievements. maybe.
OMG an Ivon viiiiiiiid yaaaaay :D
Fastest I've ever clicked on a notification
Agreed!!
IN STARS AND TIME mentioned? (the achievements were shown for 2 seconds)... anyway, ISAT GRAHHHHHHHHHHH
Hey, that’s my name Ivon
I spent 3 hours holding right for an achievement
Interesting channel
The algorithm gods have taken me to your channel. Consider me a sub
Bro decided to upload
2:58 The answer is David Lynch (I think)
PS5 HAS GAMES
What game this is it looks so aesthetic 2:23 :)
Turnip Boy Commits Tax Evasion, no joking, thats literally the name of the game lol
Heh, I like to brag
Long CRPGs like Dos2 are funny to look at progression achievements because you can tell who is a fan favorite character and who sucks. If I remember correctly, beasts path has the lowest achievement %