The Fundamental Flaw in Krishna Cult Philosophy
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
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Great job bro. It is a cult. My cousins son is so spoiled eversince he joined this cult. He started abusing those who don't agree with him. They pursued him until he accepts it and then he started beating his parents when they brought meat home and cooked for themselves. While his father was bleeding from mouth and dying, the son instead of rushing him to the hospital, took dolki and started singing Hare Rama Hare Krishna. He was asking his father to sing it along so that he will get Moksha. Mother was scared to say anything to son abd she watched her husband dying right in front of her eyes.
Utter nonsensical cult. If materialistic world has no value at all then why they even collect money. He was asked to sell all his property and bring in all the money and then dedicate his life to the service of cows.
This cult should be exposed and banned.
U r right. I am a hindu and before these iskcon people were in harmony respecting eachother's paths and choice of choosing their own form of god be it krishna, shiva or durga. Its not prohibited in hinduism to eat meat. But these iskcon people are actually making people hate each other saying that only they are right and bla bla and those who dont agree with them are mayawadis and demons and other things and they literally start fighting and abusing.
That is horrific!
What in the name of god happened to him!
@@lakshmikrithika2521 They are just using god’s name to spread hatred and make their own religion.
I personally the philosophy of krishna alone ain't the problem. Only the people that seem to misunderstand it. It's the same problem every belief system/religion seems to have.
Krishna consciousness is not for psychiatric patients. They should be cured in psychiatry.
With all due respect to everyone involved, this is one of the oddest comment threads I've ever read.
You live under a rock, you have not seen anything kid
Waded through some of the comments before adding this. Wanted to say that even Bhaktivinode (BV) did a lot of research and found that the Bhagavatam is (1) not as old as most people think, (2) that it was likely authored by many people under the pen name of Vyasa, and (3) that there are many literal errors with it. All this supports your point that the Vedas are not shabda and also specifically for Krishna folks, they take the Bhagavatam as superior and/or the summation of the Vedas and this is what BV had to say about it. His biography 'Hindu Encounter With Modernity' is definitely the best of his biographies is where this and a lot of other interesting/controversial info can be found. Interesting that he knew these points above, but yet still seems to have accepted it as shabda.
Here is my problems with krishna cult -
1) an infinite being restricted to a limited human form. It simply doesn't add up.
Tp me, I stick to the original Vedantic hibdu philosophy of Nirguna/Saguna Brahman. Basically formless, manifested through infinite forms, which are basically symbolisms that represent various qualities /attributes of God.
This makes sense throughout the vedas.
2)another problem I find with krishna cult is that God is an "originally a person" with a fixed personality.
The problem here is that if you assune God has a personality, then it implies that either God's personalities can be materialised through the human brain, as human beings share the same emotions such as love, affection, anger, etc as God has. Or else it implies that what krishna cultists call as God is a mere projection of human behaviour.
Again, I resort to Vedantic ideas, and the way I resolve this paradox takes a very long explanation.
All religions leading to the ultimate truth and krishna is a self-refuting claim
Krishna explains the answers to all of your questions in Bhagavad Gita.
@@bn8682 no not really it’s a false demonic cult
Although I am not a fan of Iskcon ,
Your first point is totally invalid As
Krishna Form or Avtar is considered to be most divine form in which he took birth .. The most divine , doesn’t say complete or whole god ..
Hi. It's good to find you. I have been in the vaishnava practise for a few months now chanting and reading the Bhaktivedanta books. However beforehand I was into largely the advaita philosphies. They make far more sense and is more in tune with my experience of reality so I have been questioning and challenging the vaishnava's while still being under their practise. I love these guys they are great friends but I cannot get myself to believe in a god simply because I strongly believe (I know counter intuitive) that beliefs about reality are excess labels over a meaningless existence. Therefore I have been back and fourth.
They have told me that these scriptures should be accepted as the supreme authority and I think they do this for a very genuine reason. However it creates a stiff rigid belief system just like any religion.
Glad I found your videos because they have extremely good arguments that blow other religoins out of the water. But It's still not convincing enough to fully surrender to them
Hey Kyle, glad to hear the videos were helpful. Feel free to email me if you have any specific questions: gaurarader@gmail.com
Gaura Rader Thank you. Will do
Absolute Truth must have included both principle , personal- Bhagavan and impersonal - Brahman. Brahmajyoti is effulgent of Param Bhagavan, Supreme person. If Absolute Truth missing one of this aspects, than it can't be called Absolut
Nenad Marijan Absolute truth is not based upon the content of the experience. It is based on the raw experience itself.
Funny, but the Mormons told me that the book of Mormon is the supreme authority. The Christians told me that the bible is the supreme authority. The Muslims told me that only the Quran was the supreme authority. I'm beginning to see a pattern. Thank God (pun intended) that Galileo, Copernicus, and Newton didn't present their scientific works as scripture, otherwise we would have a few more religions. And, by the way, have the Veda's presented anything as precise as the great men of science? How is it that those men have given us more intelligent knowledge, than supposedly the infinitely intelligent God?
Whatever you are speaking is so abstract that ordinary people can’t follow it. Talk something which people can follow and by which they can lead a peaceful and happy life and help others lead a peaceful life. How can you speak this philosophy to a person who struggling to provide the mere basic necessities to his family.this talk is fit for people who have everything in their life.
Yes, as Marx said, religion is the “opiate of the masses, the cry of the oppressed.”
As far as people not being able to understand it, most people aren’t interested in philosophy or particularly good at it. Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t do it. I think most people leave the Krishna cult after being mistreated, abused, or because of the child abuse, or the racism or the sexism or the gurus falling down, or the GBC being a bunch of pompous idiots who clearly lack basic human decency much less being entitled. I’ve talked plenty about that stuff too :)
Thank you. Appreciate your courage in speaking truth.!
Thanks for the comment. Much appreciated!
Eating vegetarian food that is not offered to God is sinful. In the bible God says - "I've given you every sort of seed-bearing plant on Earth And every kind of fruit-bearing tree, given them to you for food." If God says what we should eat there cannot be any sin. "So Bhāgavata can be expanded to any unlimited. So anything in relationship with God, that is Bhāgavatam.
>>> Ref. VedaBase => Six Gosvāmīs Lecture, Śrī Śrī Ṣaḍ-govāmy-aṣṭaka -- Los Angeles, November 18, 1968
There is no philosophical problem with the issue of the existence of evil. This material world was created for spirit souls who wants to indulge in selfish actions some of which end up acting evil in order to try to satisfy their material ambitions.
The solution is simple, surrender to God and that will allow you to leave this material world for the spiritual world, the kingdom of God where no evil actions can be performed.
I find it interesting there's a pic of the Buddha here, but you're talking about God which the Buddha was beyond and didn't believe in.
Vaishnavism is attractive, as Gita and Mahabhrata are built on it, and monotheism is simple to get into. Bhakti devotion is spiritually entrancing, entoxicating, but, the more you find out, the less good the Krishnas are. And the less I like them. Their narcissism is a great great Evil and sin in religion, a perversion of people's good faith. Theyd be tolerant and accepting if they were for real, as Christ even. Whatever someone is like, however they look. No, they dont unite the Hindus, they devide and brainwash. That is evil, molding everything on your stamp. It is a sin of pride. A spiritual sin of "liking your version of spirituality" self love to the extreme. NOT spirituality. NOT TRUE religion. Theyw ould try to accept and unite all hindu as brethren if they were for God, in any form, including krishna and vishnu. But, it isnt the whole picture, and Hare Krishnas deny the follower true knowledge of all hinduism which is not spiritual and try and control you into one way of thinking, lviing, believing and looking. Its not true spirituality or religion its the worship of a cult guru and everything prabhupad says without fallibilitiy. They dont allow you have beards even though some fo their sampradaya gurus had them. And so did advaitacharya. The beard and hair are ancient signs of the human and spirituality in india. They also are your choice. They take that away. Thats why they are not spiritual at all. They deny you fromt he other forms of God. This is evil. To sell their book and propogate themselves, and in addition their gurus to live well. And veritably worshipped by their initiates. That is Evil. Thats as demonic as theyll say I am and they will NEVER refute this logic except by their insane non-logic. They do not love God or their disciples. They are committing evil by denying you freedom, true spirituality, and all the forms of God and your choice and spirituality, to be controlled for cattle for them. That is Evil.
yeah, fine. what do you do when you see one spirit soul encased in a body going after another spirit soul encased in a body with a pick axe? do you leave it to god or do you act? i'm interested in what your feelings are about good ole mundane justice..if and when you have the ability to act. i'm respectfully interested , not flippantly.
@@devinreese1109 i wish to know more about Krishna or contact please
@@devinreese1109 if you are treated like cattle then that means you can be profitable and that means someone will try to profit you. Credit and debit are sins. God gives all freely. It is human who charge and impose themselves not god. Remember real knowledge is free
Haribol! OMG I remember you from Gainesville's Krishna House. I'm so happy to know that you've pursued a career in philosophy. Have you ever listened to the History of Philosophy Podcast? One more question, when you say "cult" do you mean that all religions are "cults" or are some excluded from that denomination?
I have not listened to it. I'll try to check it out. I love philosophy but also love learning about other things (right now I'm on a neurodivergence deep dive lol). Other than that lots of health/longevity podcasts (found my fitness is my favorite) and basketball and movie/tv podcasts on theringer.com.
Idk man...i just want to sing Lords name..And Lords song
ua-cam.com/video/T5-6gwssX0Y/v-deo.html
That is enough.. God knows your heart, and will reveal all you need to know
It really is that simple lol. Hare krsna 🙏
You see the Vedas from a materialistic point of view and not from a transcendental point of view. Casts are not forced upon people but they are just showing the nature of this world and its interactions. The Vedas are trying to Guide society to being more god counsciouss but in a very suistainable way. Every action in society should lead to a goal but this goal must be satisfying to everyone and this can only be to be more god counsciouss. That implies that we see every part of this world to be a servant of God. Every other philosophy that guides people to enjoy their fruits of labor is at the time of death useless because it is not eternal. We seek eternaty but if you view the world through the glasses of a materialistic perception, which implies relationships with everything around us, then we will not be happy and just cultivate greed, anger and frustration. This is not the goal and god does not want us to suffer. You say that it does not make sense to accept the Vedas as the ultimate source. That is fine because everyone has his own path towards God. Prabhupada never said that Christians or Muslims will not attain Godhead. He said that the Goal is to love God, but how to achieve that is revealed in every major religion. Now it is up to us if we want to make the experiment and take up one of the practices which should lead to love of godhead. If we dont love God then we automatically love material objects which are faulty and will not give us eternal satisfaction. Prabhupada made millions of people come to try to understand God and try to love him. So his contribution to the right path, which is to achieve love of godhead, is amazing. Everyone can have dubts but to make these misleading videos is not just offending The Hare Krishna Movement but also every other religion or person that is trying to give this knowledge to people. Krishna is always there but for those who dont want to see him he will be hidden. Hare Krishna :)
Very beautiful, one day god will have no more servants no more good or evil only free willing and willing participants 🙏🙏
The problem of evil is met in our philosophy similarly as it is dealt with by Hegel and G.K. Chesterton-- in the Bhagavatam;, "Tat Te Nukampam" which basically stipulates that the material energy (suffering) exists ultimately as a fulfillment of the desires of the Jiva and not the desire of God. God isn't responsible. Take it or leave it; it's a, "try to grow in the direction of taking responsibility for one's own existence" thing. The value of taking that theodicic position is, "in the pudding" as it were and not so much in artfully solving a philosophical rubik's cube. I still don't see how, "God created suffering and that's fine because he's God deal with it" doesn't suffice but that's an aside.
You're spot on in regards to epistemology-- I think what's missing here is the whole, "Govinda-Bhasya had to be written specifically because the Bhagavatam can't be admitted as the, "bhasyic" (excuse my shitty sanskritisms) conclusion of the Chaitanya Sampradaya. This parable in disguise echoes an important point that you illustrate which is that sense perception doesn't give us access to reality proper and that's precisely why only, "the Veda in-toto" is accepted as authoritative -- any attempt to build any epistemic framework by allowing different types of knowledge (speculation, inference, divine sound, whatever) may lead to different conclusions (see Samkhya) but we're ultimately we're taking a kind of Kantian view which is that precisely in lieu (!) of the fact knowledge of the, "outside world" isn't possible from our categorically limited view that demonstration through, "pure reason" of absolute knowledge isn't a tenable means to practically gain liberation from matter which is considered tautologically the same as having experiential knowledge of the Absolute. Poetically the Chaitanya school is saying, consistent with the Bhagavad Gita that the, "Atmaramas" bliss which is beyond liberation can't be gained through mental or philosophical speculation; only through love and dedication. I think that's a worthwhile idea.
It's worth noting that the scriptures openly question their own veracity in the Bhagavatam. In Canto 5 Narada Muni basically breaks the fourth wall and says, "these stories are not meant to be historical-- they are meant to help the living entity gain liberation from matter" and in Saradiya Sukta the scriptures openly question whether anyone can really knows anything at all. Our Guru and master Srila Sridhar Maharaj said, "sincerity is invincible" and the real value of the Chaitanya movement is the asking of the question, "after religion and liberation and everything else-- what is the soul's real sincere ultimate aspiration?" This is revolutionary. Attacking cultic religions as though Christopher Hitchens is still in vogue very much is not. All the best.
In essence we do hari nam kriya s chanting etc to create the vibrations of selflessness love compassion congregation etc then we meditate in samadhi absorbing that and assimilating that into ourselves and then we we go into deep sleep we embed those qualities fairs into ourselves so that when we wake up we become service oriented loving people wit strong morals values and convictions. That’s the true nature of Krishna
That all sounds lovely lol
The Vedic knowledge was reveal by God to Brahma, then given to Narada, then to Narada's disciple Vyasadeva, who wrote the Vedas in Sanskrit when Kali started, and people needed notes basically, for what previously was transferred by sound. Veda means knowledge, which is in not only in the Vedas; but there is more knowledge in the Vedas - even if corresponding knowledge is found in the Bible or Torah or Koran or Budhhist texts.
Prabhupada writes that spiritual knowledge is available in other scriptures as well, if divinely revealed by God; not speculative stuff like Scientology from a human mind. The Vedas guide one to control the mind and actions, specifically so one can communicate with God directly, in one's heart. The point of any real religion, is to understand the nature of God and self, and the relationship between both. That relationship is universal; one of respect, love, and service. If one comes to that same conclusion through Christianity, or other religion/philosophy, the same purpose is served. That's what Prabhupada taught - how each person could perfect the mission of life, by remembering their true connection to God.
The rest is politics.
Truth is universal, no matter where you find it.
Have you found a better process, or decided that there is no God? Are you progressively more happy, or more confused and morose? Just curious.
Well written. Thank you.
@@JayRBoogie Thanks for reading. Wishing you all success
Hi sorry to say but arguments r inaccurate. The aim of Vedic knowledge is liberation from this physical world. Hence the basic primse is we( as in all living being) r not body but soul. Based on this foundation everything is built. And u r also confused about definition of knowledge. Veda defines 3 catagories of knowledge. Veda majorly focused on apara vidya. What current science deals with para vidya that knowledge of physical world. So both(Vedas n science) r not in competition with each other. Modern science is subset of Vedic knowledge. Modern science denies existence of emotion or consciousness. If you deny the existence itself how r you gonna anything about it??
I must u r confused several definition. Vedic knowledge looks world from different paradigm than modern science. Can't compare like Apples to apples. If ur software engg then following example be makes things more clear. The is technical language n there is business language. Vedas is like business lauguage.
Jitendra Vispute yes bro
Look Krishna isn’t a simple human okay he is god an energy Krishna Is depicted as human but in reality krishna is a vibration of that energy it is the representation of pure selflessness when we chant hari nam and attach the mind to Sri Krishna we become selfless ourselves playful and develop those qualities of the divine energy then when we go into yoga nidra deep sleep we assimilate those qualities and become energized. The Krishna cults ultimate purpose is to get you to samadhi through attaching your mind to the divine qualities of god not to be taken literally. If that makes sense
If you read various upanishanads,vedas,puranas you will confuse yourself by tangling in it in bhagwatgeeta krishna says"perform your duty,be righteous,stay unscared,remember me i am always with you,i love you the most" thats just simple and true i dont know what prabhupada and iskon says but trust just read CORRECT version of bhagwatgeeta and fall in love with krishna dont go on to material people for spiritual knowledge only god can provide that jai shree krishna❤🙏🕉
There are some good things in the BG but also it says that women are born as women because they were sinful in past lives, it says one should surrender to a guru, it says that one should always think of Krishna in whatever they do. Just to name a few examples of things I strongly disagree with that have nothing to do with Prabhupada and his translation.
@@GauraRader sorry for this awfull truth but YOU are born in this material boy because you were sinfull in the past...
@@GauraRaderI’d love to get in contact with you and have a conversation with you.
@@GauraRaderdude bhagavat geeta never says anything about women … can you tell the verse refernece and which messed up translation u are reading
@@GauraRaderprabhupada translation is very very very much devotion or monk oriented ..
In reality
The geeta never puts compulsion to pray ,
God aaid to follow and of the 4 path
Gyan , dhyan, karma , bhakti
It's a dead end for the soul. Muttering the same thing repeatedly and spending all your time doing pointless chores.
"dead end for the soul" is a perfect description!
Lol
we really appreciate if you say with good knowledge about modern science and vedic science.
"Clearly this guy is confused, read prabhupads book with a goal to want to learn, not to find "fault".the Vegas is so complex and mysterious. Srila Prabhupad was a pure visnava sent personally by Lord Krsna as his commander in chief to inundate the chanting of the Holy names of God. "There is no fault in vedic philosophy, the fault come from our tiny brains, trying to understand such technical an complex maters that deal with true religious maters that will help us to understand, who God is : where is his abode: what does he look like: how powerful is he : or does he have a wife."find out-don't (speculate)👍✌
Sir, I am extremely greatful for the information here. Thank you
Awesome, glad it is helpful!!!
too bad the info is bogus
@@bn8682 true. But you need to know what’s being told (bad or good) in order to weed of the truth.
@@elizabethmakua-travis4009 You won't find the truth, listening to this guy. It's all from 7 years ago also... He's probably dead.. But you can listen and decide for yourself. This guy with his skewed view, does not represent the philosophy..I've studied it for 50 years. It's not flawed in any way, in my opinion... this dude can think what he wants,,, but he doesn't represent the founder, whom he never met. A disgruntled and not particularly smart guy.. he can have his opinion, but millions of Krishna followers, would not agree. Everyone can judge for themselves
☀ *Sanatan/Hindu/Hinduism* 🌞
*Sanatan* is a word which means it has neither starting point nor ending. It is already exist before the creation of "time" (काल).
*What is Sanatan Dharm?*
Answer:
Om
Sarve Bhavantu Sukhinah
Sarve Santu Nir-Aamayaah |
Sarve Bhadraanni Pashyantu
Maa Kashcid-Duhkha-Bhaag-Bhavet |
Om Shaantih Shaantih Shaantih ||
*Meaning:*
1: Om, May All become Happy,
2: May All be Free from Illness.
3: May All See what is Auspicious,
4: May no one Suffer.
5: Om Peace, Peace, Peace.
*This meaning is exist in all religion forever.
*Now, what is Hindu?*
Answer:
A person who respect, worship and follows the principle of "Bhagwat Gita" narrated by Supreme lord {Shri Krishn} is called "Hindu".
The "Bhagwat Gita" is a glimpse of all upnishad; which are hallmark of all "Vedas".
*What is Hinduism?*
Answer:
People who follows "The Bhagwat Gita" which is the essence of all "Vedas".
*Conclusion:*
A person who worship, respect and follows "The Bhagwat Gita" principle is belong to "Hindu community".
Dont mix iskcon eith hinduism pls
Hare Krishna
Good for you for coming out of this cult. They are destructive.
Do you thinks he so you are doing a right thing about saying like that
Destructive is wrong approach to Krishna consciousness. With the right approach it's uplifting.
You lost me with this video. The problem of evil is answered. Souls get the consequenes of their choices. Their hand is ultimately on the dial and man falls and rises by his own hand. God loves you so much if you want to destroy your life and then blame him, he wont interfere until you ask. You might find more in a 12 step group if your dissilusioned with eastern spirituality. Ultimately logic can't find an answer to spirituality, because logic is the linear demon, spirituality is non dual. How can logic apply to a feeling like love? The only answer it has is 'neurons in a brain'.
All information should be taken as provisional, because you can't actually know anything in the deepest level of epistomology. You take it on faith then test it and find out if its true. Your faith has been placed in the intellect which as kant said is viable to misperception.
If you take on faith spirituality and it turns out it was wrong, youve just lived a life believing in love and kindness. Is that so bad? Doesn't that argument in itself mean there may be something there.
Too drawn out. Stopped watching at 3:00.. the problem of evil is only a problem for you buddy. You haven't understood or properly heard the philosophy. Perhaps your epistemological motive isn't 'unalloyed'.
Wow, three minutes glad you're committed to learning everything you can about the issues and considering all arguments as carefully as possible.
since you responded, I will return the gesture, review your video in depth, and respond.
Young man here is trying to take on something he doesn't really understand. Don't take this dude's word for it, check it out for yourself. This is just another opinion and it's faulty.
Listen to him I can’t tell you why but he’s wrong! Ironically, that’s just a way of saying listen to me not him, but you haven’t given any argument for why anyone would want to do that! I’m saying don’t listen to m, listen to the argument I am making.
Read upnishads.. It will clear your doubts about vedas. Keep questing and seeking... Find a guru... Keep an open mind.
Keeping an open mind is why I ended up leaving, an open mind would never embrace religious dogma!
A soul has absolute freewill to be evil or good, god cannot violate it because it flows from his own omnipotence.
can you elaborate more first 10 minutes?
I just hope your right .
I am sad that you have not arrived the truth
Sabda is not merely hearing; it is a top-down method of knowledge acquisition, as from a self-realized spiritual master. Thus, the Vedas are not the only sources of knowledge but represent a down-top method. Your logic is non-sequitur.
First you do not have enough knowledge to even debate on this . Your knowledge is limited. Your statements are themselves confused babble.
Stop while you’re ahead!
As I am an indian who studied mahabaratha, geetha, yoga and ancient indian culture...I can say that you can get happiness from all theses things but you can't find the true god and true peace. It is closely related to atheistic, agnostic and new age ideology. Never try this you will be trapped....seriously...it will ruin you and make your mind blind..
evil comes from free will.
Free will comes from god. The fruit tree doesn’t ask for anything in return, it is free to grow and free to be eaten of. The sun doesn’t ask for anything, but it is free to shine if that is its nature and free for u to experience. Change is not evil even if it effects us in a way that doesn’t serve our interests. It’s evil to impose yourself on others, if I impose myself on you that means I believe I own you. If I impose my will on the world it would mean I’m trying to lay ownership to in. If I say my body, my car, my home, I own these things. I own nothing because all is free to will itself. I am blessed as a human to recognize my freedom so I devote myself to god by keeping his rules. Freedom. I am no slave my god has no servants only willing participants.
WRONG. Free Will has already solidly been disproven as a lie.
It comes from an evil entity behind it.
I did a whole video showing how it is a lie, a false concept and a bad one also.
ua-cam.com/video/CH7nFUNmEV0/v-deo.html
Thanks
What do you mean _"the problem of evil cannot be met?"_ Easypeasy! You can easily solve the problem of evil by making God either not completely good, or not omnipotent. Do you mean that ISKCON doesn't meet it one of those ways, or that they don't meet it at all?
The thing is that, this man is unable even to express himself.And that said,he should not say anything about philosophy, because he have no idea what's ever,what krsna consiusnes is.
Let me repeat this... this man simply doesn't know at all about the issue.He probably have seen some UA-cam videos.
And before anyone say anything about krsna consiusnes ( and I don't talk about any movement or cult), they should thoroughly READ srila Prabhupada books.
It takes some time to wake up really,what is this material world we live in and how much we all are infected by this.
Theofore,we cannot blame you also beeing in ignorance, after all,this is Kali yug..
And,just to be clear - this man have absolutely no clue,what bhagavad Gita is about, neither any idea what krsna consiusnes is.
It's just a shame that some people tramp on beautiful concept without even individually learnt, nor experienced this themselves but doing lots of talking instead.
And also,to become truly and fully into the truth and to be able to comprehend krsna consiusnes is very very hard work ( I personally are not anywhere near this level, quite possibly never will be able too,at least in this life), and this is one of the Reason for them to oppose their silly opinions....
Hare krşna!
NB! Read first Prabhupada books,then say something...
How one amoeba convert into multiple soul. Means soul multiply. Pencil ki atma rubber ki atma banegi kyu ke rubber ne usko mitaya.
Look: the fact is Varuna or Mitra-Varuna is the supreme being in Vedic texts. Later, the trimurti took over and was swept under the rug by sectarians of vishnu and shiva. Now todays shiva shakti and visnu are the major gods. Brahma worship has been discarded, mostly. So, how does prabhupad explain this? In fact the gita was a result of hindu philosophy, which is of the eclectic or pauranikl school and is later by that philosophy in it than the rest of the mahabharata. So we arent to trust this because its from Yavana or foreigner scholars eh?......No, you are wrong. There isnt a "way tor ead and decode the vedas that agrees with vishnavism.!" There isnt. Because they were written before vishnu monetheism. In fact, vishnu is merely a associaste of Indra who is also a major god int he veda. Later, indra is made a demi-god. Understand.? Anyone with a historical mind can see this. You see, just like NAZI germany, you destroy the truth, and then, you can rule. Its destroying the truth. Vishnu was not a supreme God in veda.
Nope. You just copy paste from Colonial era scholars, who have long been debunked by contemporary scholars. Vishnu is the Yajña of the vedas. Yajña is the supreme principle of the vedas (Purusha). That's why everything in vedas is focused on Yajña and it execution. Indra is invigorating by Yajña (Vishnu) according to the vedas. Because even Gods are without power if there is no Yajña (Vishnu). Realizing this Purusha is the only means to immortality according to the vedas( वेदाहमेतं पुरुषं महान्तमादित्यवर्णं तमसः परस्तात् । तमेव विदित्वाति मृत्युमेति नान्यः पन्था विद्यते यनाय ॥१८॥ Yajurveda 31) According to the vedas there are different types of sacrifice that accomplish that, but all require firm longing to know the absolute truth (K.Up.) The same Upanishad states that one will reach the feet of Vishnu if one qualifies for the absolute (paramam padam) The tantric tradition is an auxiliary science, especially meant for the comon age, when people are gerally ignorant of transcendental knowledge. It advises a more devotional process for attaining the feet of Shriman Nārāyana, suitable for everyone even in this age. The goal however didn't change an inch.
Who makes the argument that: sense perception and logical inference are limited, THEREFORE the Vedas reveal the absolute truth? You call the argument "laughably false" - but you're arguing with a straw-man.
Jiva Goswami's Tattva Sandharbha is the authoritative statement on the topic and that pretty much his argument. It has been a while since I've read it and maybe he doesn't say literally say therefore, but the point is very clear that the Vedas are the only source of knowledge. And large portions of the text is devoted showing the limitations of sense perception and logical inference.
If I had to reconstruct the argument I'd say it is something like this:
1) Either sense perception and logic or the Vedas reveal the absolute truth.
2) Sense perception and logic do not reveal the absolute truth.
3) Therefore, the Vedas reveal the absolute truth.
If you think it is something else I'd be be happy to hear your reconstruction of his argument. (You can also see Bhaktivinode Thakura's Dasa Mula Tattva)
" sense perception and logical inference are limited" is what you also agreed, if you consider both element to be sufficient, you don't eve need Vedas to revels extra information. It is because you and many others presumes that we can't reaches the absolute truth by mere reason and sensory perception alone, thus we need divine revelation. What to speaks, in the Western Gaudiya cults (not only ISKON), by thinking too much is risk for the crime of speculation which, could lead the end of spiritual life of a Jiva soul.
The word VEDA is supposed to mean any accurate information, which would include modern scientific discoveries and updates. That is how I personally define it, even in my own practice.
BUT if someone says Veda in the sense of the Vedic texts already written then that is an issue. As now they are limiting the Vedas to only those texts and not allowing for further refinement.
There is also a difference between "all knowledge" and "knowledge or information ABOUT "The All"
So saying that the Vedas contain some information ABOUT the all or some inferences about the all would be more reasonable to say than that they contain "literally" all knowledge.
Even IF they happened to contain "all" knowledge in the literal sense that would have to be clear and obvious for anyone able to read Sanskrit for it to be of any meaningful use.
So even IF it contained al knowledge if it requires decoding, it is not very helpful anyway.
Just like I could say that this word Om contains all knowledge if I cannot actually demonstrate that, then it is just me saying that. As technically we can claim anything contains "all" knowledge, we would just have to decode it and see how.
So to me or anyone saying that a particular text contains "all" of anything is an obvious exaggeration for this reason.
If it requires the individual to still have to figure out HOW it contains all the information, then it it obviously lacks the explanation directly IN IT, thus it at least lack THAT knowledge as to how to directly decode "all" that information.
Cultists NEVER seem to think about these things very deeply and these obvious exaggerations and contradictions seem to go over their heads.
Karts principle would be fully refuted by ramana maharishis experience and understanding.
You've discredited Bhaktivinod's value of pratyaksha. I suggest you take a deeper look. "The self-evident Vedas, which have been received in the sampradäya through the guru-parampara by recipients of Sri Hari’s mercy such as Brahmaji and others, are known as amnaya-vakya. The nine prameya-tattvas are established by these amnaya-vakyas with the help of other prameyas that follow the guidance of these shastras, such as evidence obtained by direct sense perception (pratyakña). Reasoning that is only based on logic is always lame in the matter of evaluating inconceivable subject matters, since logic and argument have no access in the realm of the inconceivable."
That's right. If we admit the existence of God, agree on his definition of something that is absolute, then it becomes "logically" obvious that our limited powers of articulation, of logical reasoning, are unable to capture it. But here he is not talking about God, but about accepting some books as absolute proof. If proof from scripture is above pratyaksha (perception) in the hierarchy of pramanas, then it makes no sense. For the only way we can pick up knowledge of the Vedas is just by perception. If perception is illusory and erroneous, then we have no certainty that there are any Vedas. For perception is the only proof of their existence for us.
Pratyaksha is uncertain. But it is the only certainty we have. However, pratyaksha is not meant to be only sense perception. There are multiple levels of pratykashi.After all, if we accept the existence of the jiva, the jiva also has perception that is not at the level of the senses.
That gaudiyas accept shabda as the main epistemological factor is a mistake.
@@JirkaMuchaShabda has a more subtle meaning to it. Sabda is not merely sounds. It refers to transcendental knowledge, which doesn't change. Pratya means senses and refers to sense perception. The intuitive realization of Brahman (Vāsudeva) and the Shabda Brahman are indetical.
@@julianhe7348 Pratya does not mean the "senses".Aksha means sight. Pratyaksha literally means "that which is seen" in a figurative sense. Pratyaksha is any kind of perception, not just sense perception.
Shabda means sound, but in Indian epistemology it does not mean sound but the acquisition of information from some source. If I go by the information I read in a timetable it is shabda.
@@JirkaMucha yes, pratya can mean senses. That's why it's called pratyahara (withdrawal ; lit. taking the senses) in yoga . What you said about shabda literally emphasizes my point, that shabda does not mearly means sound.
Dear Gaura,
Praman Tattva is extremely subtle and intricate. The appropriate utilisation of any number of Praman’s (evidences) will depend on the nature of the examined topic. In the Jaiva Dharma Chapter 13 Babaji Mahasya mentions:
“That by which Premeya is proved, is known as Praman”
The above verse demonstrates that Premeya (subject) establishes the type of Praman (evidence) required. Of course the word Premeya has multiple meanings (the proved, the perceived, hypothesis, ontological truth etc) and these meanings have not been neglected.
The Premeya (subject) under examination in Srila Bhaktivinod Thakur’s ‘Dasa Mula Tattva’ is ‘The Nature and Position of Krishna (God) and the numerable living entities (Jivas).’ In other words ‘Dasa Mula Tattva’ is not trying to prove that God and the Soul exist. Instead it works on the premise that they do exist and expands on its philosophical conclusions with this in mind.
From the Gaudiya Vaisnava point of view, the subject regarding the existence of God and the Soul have already been rigorously explored by complementary Vedic and Indian schools of thought that include Buddhism, Advaita Vedanta, Sankya, Nyaya, Vaisheshika etc. We do not deny the need of other Praman’s such as Pratyaksa (perception), Anuman (inference), Upaman (comparison and analogy) and Sabda (testimony from a reliable source), Sambhava (Speculation) etc to greater and lesser extents for other broader subject matters. However when it comes to actually understanding the NATURE of God, should you believe he exists - would also not deny his own revelation as the most reliable source of knowledge (Praman).
To summarise ‘Dasa Mula Tattva’ is for those who have come to the understanding that God and the Soul exist. If one is struggling to accept this notion, reading this book and making comments on it proves to be a futile endeavour. Your focus should be aimed at other Indian schools of thought that systematically answer some of these base questions. (If you want i can make suggestions)
I do not want to make a book worth of comments, so I have limited myself to tackling the central theme of your UA-cam presentation. Should you want me to expand on any particular topic, please do not hesitate to reply back to this message.
When I yet, have more time I will try comment on your other video.
All glories to Guru and Gauranga!
So you’re agreeing that the vaisnava tradition offers no proof of its core beliefs lol.
There is no systematic attempt to prove, using rigorous logic, the existence of the soul or god.
It just is what it is. If it’s there somewhere, feel free to specify where.
@@GauraRader I thought I was quite clear. Proving whether God or the Soul exists is not the job of the four Vaishnava Schools of thought, much like its not the job of a Clinical Psychologists to explain the various concepts of Therotical Physics. They are two separate and distinct sciences. Similarly the existence of God and the Soul have been thoroughly examined by other schools of thought within india which I've already mentioned. These schools also have their own disciplines and set meditation techniques by which one can directly experience subtler aspects of our consciousness. Mindfulness (Vipassana, Sanskrit: Vayu Upassana), the Wim Hoffman technique (Tumo Yoga) are some disciplines that are exploding in the world right now, among hundreds. We do not abandon these sciences, rather it forms a part of the cannon of study, for any determined individual trying to understand themselves. That is the difference with India and the rest of the world. In the west if you are a Christian, you cannot be a Muslim, and if you're a Muslim, you cannot be a Jew. They are separate and distinct religions. This is not the case in India. Culturally, scriptually, in practice and in every other way; all the separate schools of thought in India form one body of work that is cross referenced time and time again. So to say that the Vaishnavas dont have the answers to whether god exists or not, is like saying psychology is nonsense because it cannot explain physical phenomenon. Its upsurd!!!! A psychologist will direct the questioner to the relevant science that can answer that particular question, which is what i have done in my previous message to you. This whole conversation is redundant because I don't think you quite catch the subtler aspects of my argument, which is fine, but as I am typing I'm beginning to question whether answering back is a complete waste of my time. Lolll. In conclusion the Vaishnavas do not care whether you belive in God or not. We care to provide those who do believe in God and the soul material to aid their futher development and progress. I think I will do a whole video on the field of Psychology, and say that it is totally nonsense because it cannot properly explain cell mutations which lead to cancer. Id use long word like you are doing and I'd probably have more hits than you also. Lolll, with the greatest respect, this stuff will only appeal to the dull minded who cannot make distinctions in the subtler aspects of an argument. You also mentioned that "there is no systematic attempt to prove, using rigorous logic, the existence of God!" Although I agree with this statement fully, you positioned it like I mentioned this in my previous rebuttal. YOU ABSOLUTELY CANNOT JUST USE DRY LOGIC TO UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THE SOUL AND GOD, much like you cannot use dry logic in understanding the nature of love, yet this phenomenon of love exists. Its just that some people want to explore that aspect of themselves and some people do not. Why are all your arguments redundant, leave people in peace and instead of wasting your time in trying to find fault in everything, try and identify the merits in everything you come across whether you belive it or not. I think you will be allot more happier.
As I said, give me an argument from one of these other schools of thought.
Until you do that, every word you say is just avoiding the question.
@@GauraRader 🙄 that's the point the evidence is not based on argument or dry logic alone (Nyaya). Although it forms a part of it. It is a combination of a number of Praman's that require study. Its complex but nevertheless real. Its like saying please tell me the argument for String Theory over Loop Quantum Gravity theory, you simply would not know where to start, as it requires ardent study and long winded explanations. Only a child would expect one sentence to explain these scientific concepts. Another point is that even in Quantum Physics both theories (although somewhat opposed) have allot of evidences (any number of pramans used) to suggest its legitimacy, and yet both theories are held with the greatest regard in the scientific world. Point is that, even theories hold weight with any number of pramans backing them, and you are implying that theories related to nature of consciousness itself; which has baffled scientist and philosophers alike since time immemorial, can be answered in one argument 🙄. The theories that we suggest are also not whimsicaly presented, it just requires study to fully understand. They are essentially the best theories out there which elaborately explains what consciousness is, better than anyone else. The closest person who came to these conclusion in greece was plato to a certain extent; but even then he did not come close to the advance practices of meditation, which the scientific world are now coming to understand the merits of. (Others only came to the point of self- actualisation, rather then self realisation, e.g meditations by marcus aurelius who was inspired by Zeno ). Any way this convo is going no where, it's one ego over another. The point is that i understand each of your points extremely well, but you have chosen to look over mine! Each to their own. I will not be replying back to any further comments.
@@10881gopi it’s so complicated you can’t understand it 😂😂.
Very convenient! Sounds like something someone who is trying to bullshit you would say lol
"Now it may surprise you to learn that in His efforts to get permanent possession of a soul, He relies on the troughs even more than on the peaks; some of His special favourites have gone through longer and deeper troughs than anyone else. The reason is this. To us a human is primarily food; our aim is the absorption of its will into ours, the increase of our own area of selfhood at its expense. But the obedience which the Enemy demands of men is quite a different thing. One must face the fact that all the talk about His love for men, and His service being perfect freedom, is not (as one would gladly believe) mere propaganda, but an appalling truth. He really does want to fill the universe with a lot of loathsome little replicas of Himself-- creatures whose life, on its miniature scale, will be qualitatively like His own, not because he has absorbed them but because their wills freely conform to His. We want cattle who can finally become food; He wants servants who can finally become sons. We want to suck in,, He wants to give out. We are empty and would be filled; He is full and flows over. Our war aim is a world in which Our Father Below has drawn all other beings into himself: the Enemy wants a world full of beings united to Him but still distinct.
And that is where the troughs come in. You must have often wondered why the Enemy does not make more use of His power to be sensibly present to human souls in any degree He chooses and at any moment. But you now see that the Irresistible and the Indisputable are the two weapons which the very nature of His scheme forbids Him to use."
-Screwtape
Very poetic, most religious writing is. But generally religious writing is poetic as a substitute for being rational, or attempting to make a well reasoned argument. That is certainly true in this case.
Well, I'd discuss the logic of it as well as the limits of logic, but as there's no sense in showing money to thieves to prove that it isn't counterfeit, there is no sense in discussing the holy with blasphemous atheists. Apeksha is proper for Dvisatsu (Sb 11.2.46).
Gaura Rader Maybe it's poetic for the sake of attracting poetic minded people. I've never experienced the poetry being a stand for rationality. Hope youre well, Gaura!
Being poetic and being rational are not logically opposed but in my experience religious texts and sermons to tend to rely on poeticism and story to convince people via non-rational means. It's just my experience across a wide range of religious reading.
Secular writers of course also do it, even in philosophy, but the problem is absolutely pervasive in religious writing, again in my experience.
Gaura Rader I understand your point and it makes sense. I've actually watched a lot of your videos, about all kinds of subjects and I like them. I just happen to disagree on this subject. Within vedanta there is a wide range of logic schools as you know. They don't rely on flowery words or poetry to make spiritual points or reach metaphysical understanding.
To understand Absolute Truth first condition is sraddha,some faith in God and His Authority is needed ! Faithless persons can not progres in spiritual life, what to speak of bhakti yoga ! Then enough sincerity and seriousness is needed ! That may lead one to proper spiritual connections, genuine sadhus, sadhu sanga ! By such associations own adhikar and sraddha will improve ! This also includes proper vichar, wich includes Tattva jnana ! Then one will understand that Vedas are APAURUSHREYA, SABDHA, TRANSCENDENTAL SOUND VIBRATIONS , coming down from God Himself ! Without that understanding and realization, jnana and vijnana, it is out of question that one will be able to progres in spiritual life ! Those who derided this facts and Authority of Vedas are atheists, Faithless persons and may belong in maya apahrta jnana category if they have material intelligence, or they are mudhas, naradamas or asurim bhavam and they never surender to Sri Krishna ! All this is explained by Sri Krishna Himself in Bhagavad Gita As It Is ! Choice is given to accept Him or reject Him as Supreme Authority and Absolute Truth !
Mr.Radar --Have You done VEDA ADYAYANAM ? --Without VEDA ADYAYANAM --what do you know about VEDAM ? -What do you know about PADHAARTHAM and VAAKYAARTHAM of VEDAM --when you say VEDAM-VEDAM --which शाखा you mean ? --why do you BLUFF as if a Great Scholar in Vedam and Upanishads ?
You Talk about VAISHNAVA --The Word VAISHNAVA comes from "VISHNU" --what is ROOT WORD (Dhaatup) for Vishnu and -what is the Suffix --and what are their meanings and how do you Annotate the word VISHNU ? --Why do you Mis-Lead the Viwers by Telling ALL LIES ?
The first upamishad they worshiped the fire agni. They didnt know who God was like everyone else.
Agni is diety not god , omg
U don’t even know the baaics , please don’t say anything ..
Agni is dev not parmatma ,
Deva are higher diety not god
bro speek slowly if you really wants your message to reach wider audience
Victor Munagapati yeah,he is saying don't believe blindly a scripture untill you experience.we can experience vedic science,but bible is just a myth
I've decided that this is a very good video. There are many commenters that don't understand the video, and accuse the video producer of not making sense. But that's only because they don't have the necessary knowledge about logic and modern western philosophy. To them I wish a happy convalescense.
lol, appreciate that! Yes, being able to think logically about the topic is a necessary condition of understanding the video. To be fair, the Hare Krishna experience, and religion more generally, makes otherwise rational people fail to be able to think rationally. I was one of them for many years!!
I have always been aware of this flaw and I was weirded out by the fact that almost no one else was able to pick up on this. I'm a Hare Krishna but with a different viewpoint from the cult ideology about Krishna.
It was always obvious to me that the being behind this world is obviously indifferent or malevolent and not actually "all benevolent" or even maximally benevolent (at least not currently). What is interesting is that this "all benevolent or "all good" claim about the source of all things was never even claimed in the Vedas or in the devotional texts themselves or even by Krishna Himself.
People who have Krishna cult views mostly ignore this obvious fact.
Krishna Himself never even claimed he was entirely benevolent, its just an idea that people promoted about Him as the years went on. That being said, is there a benevolent aspect to Him? Sure there is.
Does that mean he is "entirely" or "maximally" benevolent (at this current time), no.
There is a benevolent aspect to each and every one of us, but none of us are entirely benevolent (currently).
I'm talking ideological/philosophical points here, not trying to convince you he exists either way or debate it.
I'm just saying that those of us who are Hare Krishnas but who are not in agreement with the cult ideologies about Krishna have always been aware of the flaws in the cult versions of the ideology.
We have always been aware of how and why they do not hold up ideologically in any kind of rational way or even in a basic sense way either, you don't really even need to be that rational even to grasp this.
You really just need basic sense, which is not so common nowadays.
Hare Krishna is a very broad range of ideologies which have the one common ground of Radha and Krishna being recognized and worshiped as the main focus and as the original source of all beings and things.
But the, viewpoints, details and the actual practice beyond that vary greatly.
Many people seem to think Prabhupada has a monopoly on what Hare Krishna is and how it is defined but he does not and never has. No one has a monopoly on what we believe or practice.
So what should accept in your opinion.....see with I did there?
We should "reasonably accept" only what we can verify with a combination of actual evidence that we can show to others in terms of anything that applies to all beings AND direct first hand experience regarding anything regarding our own first hand experience in particular.
But with anything that applies to everyone, we need to have actual supporting evidence that we can demonstrate for that.
@@TheLustyDollhow do you obtain actual supporting evidence my bro?
Also the hare krishna crap is an extreme cult imo
Yes Kant says that we can't know objects other than how they appear to us, which is limited, agreed. However, Kant spaeks of intuition as a superior form of knowledge than emprical knowledge.
Kant doesn't not think knowledge is possible. He describes his project in the preface of the second, if my memory serves me correctly, as "Denying knowledge to make room for faith." But that faith is not rationally justified in any way, just something the believer can choose to believe in.
He does think that people who act morally act irrationally if there is no God, hence there is a kind of argument from practical reason. However, a) he never thought of this any sort of proof and b) it is very bad argument based on a very limited understanding of human psychology and no understanding of evolution.
@@GauraRader if morality is irrational in Gods absence so what? It’s still beneficial to alleviate unwanted suffering.
@@jupiterinaries6150 no argument from me there. I believe morality is important. Kant didn’t understand evolution and human psychology so therefore didn’t understand that we don’t need a rational justification for moral action. We can and do act morally because we want to!!
waste of precious 11:20 minutes of my life
Research flat earth.
Western scholars who never meditate for a single minute gives opinion and write about Buddha, It creates a lots of misinterpretation and confusion... This video is the exact same situation, western thinker who are not a God realized person giving opinion on Vedas, Gita, Srimad bhagavatam... i pity the fool 💔 and those fools who are buying this narratives...
when you read bhagvat geeta from different translation book, you will realise what is problem with iskcon. they change the geeta translation and made it everything bhakti orientated. every geeta translation is same expect iskcon one thats what maki it problematic
I actually disagree with this comment. The Iskcon translation is actually quite accurate in the vast vast majority of cases, most other translations present the Gita through a more plural list lens, but the literal translation of the Gita is highly sectarian. The Gita was written as a sectarian polemical text, the author of the Gita was critical of all the other ancient philosophies, as well as the Vedic tradition, which was popular around the time that the gita was written. It is critical of Buddhism as well. If you want a universalist nonsectarian text the Gita is not the text for you, although that is how it has been interpreted by most versions of Hinduism in recent history. The book Aum Beep Beep gives a good historical summary of the Gita. The most non-sectarian Hindu religion is actually Buddhism, although most Hindus, don’t consider it part of Hinduism, which is a pretty big shame. In my opinion there was a time when it was the dominant religion of India.
@@GauraRader No no. I know sanskrit and i checked it my self. Shlokas cant be changed. Sanskrit shlokas are same everywhere and their translation too but isckon changed more than 100 translations and their sectarian is not a proper sectarian as traditionally no one can claimed to be disciple (get diksha) from photo or murti. Its not valid at all. There is lot to talk about isckon but I think i said enough for people to understand the whole situation. In short note
Prabhupada made it like abrahmic religions through wrong translation and his own ideas. Peace
@@GauraRader if you want to know about how india got over buddhism, it was because of adi shankaracharya.
@@amankumar206 we can agree to disagree haha. I think the Gita is fundamentally a monotheistic text (think about verses like sarva dharma parityaga man ekam sharanam vraja or man mana bhava mad bhakto mad yagi mam namakuru plus all the verses critical of anyone worshipping the devas.
@@amankumar206 that was definitely a big factor! But also a resurgence/development of vaishnavism and other traditions we see currently in India.
But you misunderstood the philosophy, so how can you criticise it? The point about epistemology and how we accept knowledge is not that you have to accept vedas automatically because the other methods of ascertaining knowledge like direct perception and research are imperfect, but that if you want knowledge beyond your senses, because the other two methods cannot go beyond the sensual platform, you HAVE to accept the Vedas. But only to know the absolute truth beyond the senses. So please, study a bit more carefully before making a video. Otherwise you are misleading people. A bit like a cult.
But how do you know, or rather why do you believe that the vedas can provide knowledge beyond the senses?
@@GauraRader before I answer, because you didn't understand the point, you should adjust this video that you have made. otherwise, it's dishonest to keep it here, misleading people.
Where is the first philosophical problem discussed?
ua-cam.com/video/sHH2hcV96uQ/v-deo.html
Thank you.
A very disjointed talk. I suggest you write out in points and practice the talk ,give it to some friends or colleagues and have it critiqued.
Maybe but that’s neither here nor there, the message is what’s important!
I think you don't no the difference between Varna and caste system??mistreat of woman in Vedas?I never listened someone saying this.god is gender less in vedas.i always taught to treat woman as divine.and you say Vedas are advanced but we can't accept that they are the words from the god its ok even atheist be a sanathani.buddist won't accept Vedas right even Buddhism born from vedic tradition.bhudha himself taught one aspect of vedic culture.he never said I'm god myself.even Hindus pray bhudha.that doesn't makes Bhudha is against Vedas. it's your opinion nothing wrong in it actually but ,don't try to do some statements like caste system attached to vedic culture because caste system born in India during Britishers rule.is Plato and Aristotle are contemporary to Vedas??lol it's funny.but nothing will come by looking at the scriptures its right.now you better check quantum physics whether Vedas failing in it or not??I think at the vedic culture they have more vision than us, because they have direct application oriented.now many of ideas from Vedas getting noble prizes
Nothing but mental speculation..
This guy is a well known hater been fidled by diddy obviously
There is no such thing as 'evil'. You, sir, are talking from a Christian or Western philosophical point of view but in the eastern or the Vedic philosophy evil simply doesn't exist. Because it's all in your perception of the material world. God never created evil. It's like saying you feel cold in the winter and you say 'cold' exists. But that's wrong from a scientific point of view. You feel cold in the winter because of the absence of heat... Well because of lack of enough heat, you get my point thought, right? So, likewise evil doesn't exist. It's just the absence of goodness. Therefore, the existence of God has nothing to do with the problem of evil of the world. It's not like God allowed evil to exist in the material world. It's because people are too ignorant and egoistic to realize God... or have Krsna Consciousness that they perceive the world to be evil.
Thanks.
Thats nice in theory, but tell that to the billions of people who have starved to death, been tortured to death, died slowly and painfully of horrible diseases, been raped, psychologically and phsyically abused, etc. etc.
I'm with you on this one Gaura and always have been.
By the way, anyone else reading this, yes I am a Hare Krishna and I have never agreed with the cult bullshit teaching that "evil doesn't exist" that so many people try to promote. I have always known that idea is total bullshit. Of course evil exists as an experience, the status of it ideologically or philosophically makes no difference in terms of it being able to be experienced and being evil in that regards in either case.
Whether "real but temporary" OR "illusory"
Those are just words ultimately. Is it able to be experienced or not and the answer is yes it is.
Regardless of its ideological "status" Evil is STILL evil and horribly painful. Its obvious that an even mostly benevolent being would simply not allow it to exist at all OR at the very least would not allow it to be so extreme in terms of pain.
Because the experience of evil and pain is there, the very presence of it disproves a maximally benevolent being as the source of this world and leaves us with a heavily indifferent or malevolent being as the source, if a person accepts a being as the source of this world at all in the first place.
This is the point Gaura is making which so few seem to be able to grasp in these comments.
There are very few actual philosophers due to very few people actually admitting what is obvious beyond our own individual beliefs or views.
@@TheLustyDoll "evil doesn't exist" is probably true, but on some top level, where there's no body knot. And it's used perfectly by subtle little gollums, to bypass, usurp, use you, suck your energy, or avoid to shake a boat, confronting the wrongs, because....... temple president position? 🤷♀️ Some are, however, just psycho narcs 😂 very few genuine
@@GauraRader Right on Gaura. It really pisses me off when assholes claim that "evil" doesn't exist.
Like we discussed a lot, alot of the "Transcendental" claims are just variations of "evil does not really exist" bullshit.
We know what these jokers really mean to say is the status of evil is temporal" but like I say so many times in my videos, the status of the evil is irrelevant.
The fact is it's experienced all the same.
They think because evil is technically "temporary" that equals its non existence. Another does not follow claim from people in armchairs not suffering yo any horrific degree.
@@territmoderitmo9190 My point is that evil not being experienced in a Paradise state or higher state, has nothing to do with it "not existing"
The point is evil is experienced by most sentiences most of the time in this particular world.
The technical status of it being temporary and not the deepest possible reality is irrelevant.
That's the part the ones who claim it "does not exist" fail to grasp properly.
They think the status of the feeling of pain makes it non existent.
Its literally the most asinine dumbass claim anyone could ever make.
Its the same as saying oxygen doesn't exist or that feelings don't exist.
Its just asinine stupidity for folks to say such things.
And they Wonder why that philosophy falls apart when they are being tortured, because it's total bullshit is why.
Good Useful Philosophy is solid in all circumstances and does not change.
Vaishnavism is attractive, as Gita and Mahabhrata are built on it, and monotheism is simple to get into. Bhakti devotion is spiritually entrancing, entoxicating, but, the more you find out, the less good the Krishnas are. And the less I like them. Their narcissism is a great great Evil and sin in religion, a perversion of people's good faith. Theyd be tolerant and accepting if they were for real, as Christ even. Whatever someone is like, however they look. No, they dont unite the Hindus, they devide and brainwash. That is evil, molding everything on your stamp. It is a sin of pride. A spiritual sin of "liking your version of spirituality" self love to the extreme. NOT spirituality. NOT TRUE religion. Theyw ould try to accept and unite all hindu as brethren if they were for God, in any form, including krishna and vishnu. But, it isnt the whole picture, and Hare Krishnas deny the follower true knowledge of all hinduism which is not spiritual and try and control you into one way of thinking, lviing, believing and looking. Its not true spirituality or religion its the worship of a cult guru and everything prabhupad says without fallibilitiy. They dont allow you have beards even though some fo their sampradaya gurus had them. And so did advaitacharya. The beard and hair are ancient signs of the human and spirituality in india. They also are your choice. They take that away. Thats why they are not spiritual at all. They deny you fromt he other forms of God. This is evil. To sell their book and propogate themselves, and in addition their gurus to live well. And veritably worshipped by their initiates. That is Evil. Thats as demonic as theyll say I am and they will NEVER refute this logic except by their insane non-logic. They do not love God or their disciples. They are committing evil by denying you freedom, true spirituality, and all the forms of God and your choice and spirituality, to be controlled for cattle for them. That is Evil.
Oh I feel you, I hope you feel better, its difiicult to get pasa this things and feel the liberty of the soul, i hope you find good friends that soport you
Atheist
Not worth the time listening to.
What's this about Krishna having 16,108 wives, yet devotees are supposed to abstain from sex? I read an answer to this from
www.quora.com/Did-Krishna-have-16000-wives
"Lord Krishna never married anyone forcefully and has done so in situations where there was not any other choice left. Also, he lived with each of his wives as an ideal husband and gave them love, care and respect & satisfy them completely in every possible way. In this kaliyuga, if anyone is able to satisfy his single spouse, he/she is considered extraordinary."
He married them in order to sexually satisfy the women, but not himself? Really? How brainwashed would you have to be to believe that bullshit?
Truman Burbank
You Read But Did Not Understand The Context About What You Read! What Is Wife And What Is Bakti. When You Understand These Two! Then You Will Understand Why Krishna Had All Those Wives! Lol
He danced with them and says put his lotus feet on thier breast. 😮
You have to serve somebody/something. You discount fait
evelation and approach this problem from a purely mundane and materialistic understanding of philosophy. On the mundane level apparent rational arguments can be made about anything. The ultimate truth lies Beyond verbal meanderings
That's not true. Fallacies can be identified in naturalistic thinking. Just because Prabhupad says reasoning can be bent doesn't mean it can. Try again.
@indian lad33 You are the king of the Strawman Argument. You claim my point is that because you have to serve somebody or something then you might as well serve Prabhupada is a false attribution to me. Are you a dolt?
@indian lad33 What exactly is untrue? Please point to an assertion that I made which you claim to be false?
@indian lad33 More Strawman arguments I see. You seem incapable of learning or are caught in a cycle of illogic. Your other lapse of logic is the Ad Hominem attack.
@indian lad33 Again you show your inability to comprehend. Referring to a "mundane" world view is merely descriptive and not an attack. "Mundane" refers to the earthly (or material) conception as opposed to the spiritual. I am sorry you have such difficulty dealing with concepts.
I think he’s obsessed with the Hare Krishnas ...
Krishna religion? 😆😆😆😆Krishna philosophy? What is this? This is so made up!
We don't have any problems it's people like you who have a problem... Comment on what u know.... Our culture out dates everything... Full stop
You don't know what you are talking about dude.
Yawnnn
THE VADAS YOU ARE READING! ARE THE VADAS THAT WAS TRANSLATED BY THE INVADERS! BUT THE ORIGINAL WAS GUARDED 24/7/365+366 Every Leap Year! English Could Not Conquer Sanskrit. And So is Arabic! SANSKRIT IS THE MOTHER OF ALL LANGUAGES! Jai Hind!
you speak a lot but not able to convey anything....very bad communication skills...boring...
777
The only problem is that you are using your limited brain to counter the gods word...Krishna final word in Bhagavad-Gita is to arjun surrender to me....that means leave karma yoga n do bhakti yoga because you can get me through bhakti.. you are confused with veda ,upnashid comparing with science ,sociology n so on you will be confused....this is Krishna leela...
So let’s all give up on our lives, become sanyasi and sing bhajans?
Maybe you should have sung louder when the invaders were invading! But too bad the karma yogis had to come to your rescue😂
@@lakshmikrithika2521 I don't know how much understanding gyan you have....but ...Krishna himself didn't give his life and became sanyasi nor he held his hand up when his kingdom was invaded nor he advised arjun during Mahabharata yudh...your karma is in your hand ...best of luck...
Krishna is a myth...not historical....no foundation...waste for you to talk about this vanity brother. Kneel and pray to 100% MAN and 100% GOD Jet. Whose birth was prophesied and fulfilled
no foundation means?
Dude, there's no foundation for the Jesus god as well, just some myths. Not so different from the myths around krishna.
Lmfao, the NY Jets suck
bla bla bla blaber fake blaber. good luck.
You make some excellent point, thank you for giving us all so much to think about 😅😂🤣😂😅
Mr.Radar --Have You done VEDA ADYAYANAM ? --Without VEDA ADYAYANAM --what do you know about VEDAM ? -What do you know about PADHAARTHAM and VAAKYAARTHAM of VEDAM --when you say VEDAM-VEDAM --which शाखा you mean ? --why do you BLUFF as if a Great Scholar in Vedam and Upanishads ?