As an avid enthusiast, I believe that painting is an integral part of the miniature gaming experience. It adds a layer of depth and immersion that simply can't be replicated by unpainted models. However, I understand that not everyone shares my passion for painting. And you know what? That's perfectly okay. I won't be storming your castle with a mob of paintbrush-wielding fanatics, demanding that you devote hours to perfecting your brush strokes(I might if someone posts another £4000 haul on facebook). Painting is a personal choice, and it should never feel like an obligation or a chore. If you're content with playing with bare plastic, that's your prerogative. After all, the heart of this hobby lies in the joy of gameplay and the camaraderie it fosters. That being said, I encourage you to give painting a chance. You might discover a hidden talent or a newfound appreciation for the artistry behind it. Plus, it can be a wonderfully therapeutic and creative outlet, allowing you to express your individuality through your miniatures. Remember, this is just my personal take on the matter, and I invite you to share your thoughts and opinions in the comments below(or hate mail, that works too). Let's keep the discussion respectful and open-minded as we navigate the colorful world of painting miniatures. Enjoy the video!
You’re painting, so why fence sit? The entire argument is between people that actually participate in the hobby and those that don’t. It’s that simple. Stop attempting to be a hanger on in this space.
@@FLTREDUX kinda. I think battletech is just evolving and this debate is just part of that. Personally I think it's a debate that largely falls on the "if you can you probably should" side since most responses online and to this video are about that. I'm not about to be insulting or confrontational to people over models that's not the mind of space I want here
I'm one of those old heads who played BattleTech in the 80s with just the cardboard mechs. I could never afford the metal minis, so I'm living my childhood dream with the minis available today.
Same here! In fact the first battletech campaign I ran in 96-97 was 40 card board mechs, 12 plastic minis, and coins for representing the vehicles and infantry!
the whole point of the 'no need for paint' or even 'no need for minis' is in the rulebooks, and they say it's there for if someone doesn't have the resources. it's a game at the end of the day and if you can't do it then you shouldn't be forced to. I paint my minis because i can, but I'll play with someone who can't.
Cardboard standees were good enough for us in the 80’s, and they're still good enough today. And if you run out of cardboard, there's always a lego man somewhere to use as a stand in. 🙂 Nicely painted minis are nice, but unpainted is fine too. Just say that they're a Comstar lance that wandered through a duststorm.
The problem is I don't play enough to have a faction. Once a mini is painted, it's a better proxy for the one faction it's painted as, but a worse proxy for the many factions it's painted incorrectly for. We just play it as a once in awhile board game at my house. Being generic isn't a bug it's a feature.
Any tabletop wargame requires three groups of people that all overlap: players, painters, and lore nerds. Together they form a triangle, with everyone falling somewhere inside. I've been trying to reach the center, balancing my painting and playing and lore knowledge together. BT allows very well for some people to drift much more into one or two of those categories. I've known players who barely knew anything about the lore and did almost no painting, but were deeply versed in the game on the table. Battletech, as a painting community, usually sees people painting anything from a lance to a battalion in a unified paint scheme. I'm an oddball in that I'm painting a full regiment in the same colors. But I am also working to improve my skills: doing decals and highlighting as I expand my army. A coat of primer is just as acceptable as bare plastic or fully painted with decals. It's not about the painting. As nice as it is to play opposite painted models, the only required rule of battletech is to have fun.
Exactly, to me its a 'kind for kind' situation, if someone is actually painting and putting effort in i do think its a bit of an insult to show up with bare plastic or (none agreed) proxies. I do completely get painting is not everyone's thing but BattleTech sure is the odd one out when it comes to this. every other wargame expects if not demands that the paint be on the model, I suppose in a way that might be part of the appeal for a lot of folks who don't have the desire to paint? at the end of the day I just want people to try painting at least once.
@@thebritishgeek For sure, painting up a model collection is actually really fun once you work up a method. I'm also a former 40K player, so I work in batches. Prime together, basecoat together, and then work through one color at a time for all the relevant models (details and highlights). The way I get my models in leaves me with 18 to do at a time, so the paint on the first model is dry by the time I finish the last. But that's a method that works for me. The obstacle of looking at a pile of lance and star packs and feeling defeated before even priming them is real. I just happen to want the discipline of getting models painted, and still have a couple companies worth that I just haven't done (Com Guards, my secondary army).
@@thebritishgeek My Oriente Hussars are at a strength of 170 mechs (11,080 tons, 224,541 points), fully painted and almost all have decals. My Guards are much smaller in scale at about ⅔ that strength, and are mostly painted already. I do want to get my IS all painted before I get my CHH/CSR orders started. Biggest obstacle at the moment is needing more bases. Mine is almost entirely printed, so I have to base them as well.
@@thebritishgeek I feel the not painting acceptance also stems from that Classic isn't really a wargame. It's a very detailed boardgame that involves war. Well very detailed compared to nowadays, I'm under the impression that for the time it was actually mid-tier crunchy at most. Sort of like how Chainmail (and eventually D&D) evolved from wargames into something more skirmish to full on roleplay. Battletech started with "let's make a boardgame where these cool Japanese robots fight" (BattleDroids) and evolved into a more complex boardgame with wargame like aspects which then split into Battleforce for the strategic wargame and Alpha Strike for the tactical side.
It's a game, not a hobby. It's not a quirk that the rules explicitly call out anything with a facing can be used, it's intentional. The norm of painted wyswyg minis long predates both Battletech and 40K, it comes from the traditional miniature wargames. Battletech intentionally broke with that tradition and has stayed that way. It's a game, not a hobby. It's also kind of presumptuous to be a self professed refugee from another game, then immediately tell the player base of the new game that they're doing it wrong and in order to succeed they need to start doing the things the way your old game did it. Again, it's not like the existing player base isn't familiar with the concept of painting minis. Maybe there's a reason the culture didn't adopt painting as a fundamental part of the game? Rather than taking the time to understand the culture, you argue against a strawman (unpainted is better, really?) and insult the existing player base. That attitude rings a lot of warning bells for players who explicitly chose Battletech over 40K.
as a 'battle boomer' I've played the game at all different scales. at it's heart, battletech is a war game. just looking at the vast array of unit types available tells you this. while lance or star combat is interesting, I've played at much larger scales. fielding a full division (4 regiments or 15 battalions) requires a very different set up. we used the ASL (advanced squad leader) map boards. they are much smaller hexes which allows for much larger battlefield. that said, obviously the mech mini's or even the card stock standee's are too big. we used the gaming standard 1/4" cardboard chits. they fit the hexes and allow for full organizational movement. this type of game is not for everyone. for most, especially newer players, just running a Lance or star is challenging enough. it's when you play at the larger scale, the game really opens up you feel like you are in a war!
Having come late to this debate and unfamiliar with the different sides, I would be surprised if anyone thinks unpainted mechs are actually superior to painted mechs. I have played Battletech off and on, and if I were to collect the figs/minis I probably wouldn't paint them simply because it's not worth my scant time and effort. Plus I have bad eyesight, low standards and can use my imagination (out of necessity). But unpainted is not better in any way (other than it requires literally zero effort and materials) and I'll readily concede painted looks far better than unpainted.
I’ve been playing Battletech since 1990, and painting minis since 2010 or so. My take on the painting debate is simple: I prefer to use painted minis for my games. However, I prefer playing the game to seeing painted minis across the table, so I don’t mind if my opponent uses unpainted minis, proxies, cardboard standees, or d8s to represent their forces. Just so long as I know which token represents which unit, I’m not too picky. By the way, I am a very slow painter. The part of painting a model that takes the longest for me is simply starting. Once I get the model started, I will usually finish it (to rough tabletop standards).
I come from trading card games and, even though I'm not artsy, painting is one of the appeals to me of battltech. In TCGs, I have trouble finding people to practice with and now that I have a newborn, getting out to events has been even harder. Battletech gives me a lot to do by myself, whether it's theory crafting new lances, painting, researching new color schemes, or watching videos about painting or lore. And it's quite a bit easier to play solo against myself because there's no hidden information other than where the mechs are going to move next.
40k players really need to acclimate to the BT community, not the other way around. You don't get to let your hobby get ruined by outsiders and then come to mine and demand I live by your standards.
@TheBritichGeek Battletech isn't Warhammer 40K, there is no standard or social contract in Battletech. Now for Tournaments CGL does require at least a minimal paint standard for their games as well as you need to have official CLG or IWM products when playing, aside from that though paint your minis or don't paint your minis, enjoy the lore, the game, don't be a bully, don't be a jerk and have fun. As you said people don't respond well if you badger them right? It's not difficult to be nice. Perhaps this video could be more about the Tournament scene as official Demo Team games do require painted miniatures at minimum. So there is a separation of official and non-official games. I do commission work and paint my minis to a professional standard so I do value painted miniatures but I wouldn't bully people to paint their minis. I'd recommend you recognize the difference between the 40K culture and BT culture. Welcome to the Battletech hobby.
I understand that but I believe that battletech will change and has to if it's to actually keep it's growth against 40k. Catalyst is clearly wanting to court the 40k crowd by improving the model quality and including community paint jobs in it's books. I'd never bully anyone into doing something they don't want to, it's just something that is part of the hobby now and will most likely continue to become more prominent as battletech grows. Because after all why not? It worked for Warhammer and they didn't give out that 4" timherwolf for no reason 😅
@@thebritishgeek I appreciate your reply 😅, So yes I see what you mean about Catalyst tempting the 40K crowd with big models and a move to make Battletech more approachable. But something that makes Battletech unique and different in it's core DNA is the freedom you have with Battletech. If Catalyst changes the game completely and starts to implement yearly Codex like Editions to the rules, Starts making faction codex's for all of the IS and Clan factions and does this in hopes of trying to imitate 40K to the point of being identical, then most of the classic BT players will just check out like they did with Clicky Tech. They tried turning battletech into a clix game, they tried that failed miserably. Thing is if fans want to play 40K which has strict army building rules with strict painting requirements, Then those people will just play Mechanicus or Imperial Knights and get their mech fix that way, or they can play Tau. 40K already has MECHS in its universe so this isn't new to Battletech fans. All I'm saying is you have the right to play BT how you want, but most of the people I play with don't treat BT like 40K. If you like how 40K does things then just play 40K. Catalyst is doing really good with Battletech not because of but in spite of changes. Everybody who wanted a BT resurgence is happy with new models but that's about. The classic older BT fans don't really care about the new fluff or rules. We have plenty of material from the 80's and 90's to play the game and run campaigns. BT was never a competitive sport tabletop game like 40K and if people see CGL going that direction, the 80's 90's and early 2000's BT crowd will keep doing what they did. Play classic BT lol. I am not in the camp that feels we need more people in our hobby. There's plenty of people who play BT already. I'm also not into large crowds, so BT is perfect for my specific tastes. I do get that some people love being in the popular crowd or popular table with all the people and all the noise. I like my quiet Table group and small crowd of people. Battletech's complexity and crunchy rules and unit possibilities is also a great barrier to entry. I've had new guys who came from 40K complain about how BT is this or that and it should be this or that. I always tell them, Great go play that then lol. Mind you I own armies for 40K, I have a soup list of mechanicus, death watch, space marines, and knights. As well as Tau and some Eldar. But 40K is my power playing competitive game niche, BT is my casual pick up and play to have fun game. Never hurts to do both if you can afford it. Like I tell people, Why not both? You can play both games.
Sculpts look nice but they look even nicer when painted, if someone wants to take the time and effort to do it that's cool and more power to them if you feel jealous or inadequate by others putting their effort into it, that's a them issue and they can choose to also do it too or stay with unpainted stuff. As for me i went even further by breaking into scratch building in my off time.
Someone without the time and care to paint their pieces isn't going to have the time and care to be worth playing with. I wouldn't refuse to play with someone who's brand new and wants to play their first game or two before they decide how they wan to paint up their first unit, nothing wrong with that. But... If you've been playing for a while and don't have anything painted yet and don't have any plans to do so, I'm just not interested: go play Risk, or Catan, or something.
thumbs up for the F them comment!!! play how you want. standies, gray or painted. I except all mechs to be blown up!!! I have been playing both BTech and Warhammer since the early 80's. Never cared if the opponent is painted or not for me it is the fun of the game. how ever if I see a great paint job I will comment on that.
I've been playing all three sides since 1986 and I really don't care. Battletech is Battletech, whether it's cardboard standees, painted mini's or unpainted mini's. I love playing the game and will continue to do so. I will say this though, I find painting mini's very calming.
as someone who has been playing for 40 years, I can relate. we didn't have many mini's back then. we would use the mini's for our forces and the standee's as the opposition forces. the city tech box (original) was a big help by providing tanks and infantry.
As a kid who had my £4.50 per week paper round money, I remember being supremely dis-chuffed that I couldn't play wh40k because my two squads of marines that I'd built up over months weren't an effective force, and I wasn't allowed to substitute another model for a dreadnought. I played a little, borrowing models as required but it was always awkward. I'm always in favour of letting people substitute. Once people get into it they're more likely to know which mini's to spend their hard earned on, but especially for starting players they shouldn't be pay-walled into access. Of course now I can afford to buy my own mini's, and despite not being a skilled painter (or even particularily enjoying the process yet) I'm making the effort. But while I encourage everyone to try and make an effort, if you're using rocks and loose change to enjoy the game, good for you. TLDR; I agree with your sentiment, but I empathise with those who don't.
I didn't realise not painting Battletech minis was even a thing. Especially with classic Battletech, where it's probably only a handful of minis per side anyway. I played it in the late '80s to mid '90s (after which I didn't do any tabletop gaming until the pandemic, the HBS Battletech game and 3D printing revived my interest) and just started again the last few years. Not painting the minis never occurred to me, despite having played with cardboard standees a few times.
To me it's a case of if you have the means you probably should. Especially with classic battletech since as you said you have what? Max 5 units? But I do get that some people don't like it
I like the discussion and guess I'm one of those Battle Boomers (assuming that refers to people who played this in the 80's) and am just getting back into the game. By the time I was half way through this video I was hoping to see some more videos by you showing more painting topics. Hope you're doing well and would love to see more content by you if you feel the urge.
Gatekeeping is an entirely different topic. I'd argue that to some degree it's needed lest you turn into DnD( a complete shadow of its former self) This debate is more about the effort people put into the hobby. Personally I'm not going to force you to paint but I think you probably should if your opponent has.
Gatekeepers is in important aspect of any community worth being in. If you disdain the setting tmand the paint needed to honor it and your opponent, just stay on the other side of the gate, thank you very much.
In terms of investment of time and money, I would declare myself as an 80/20 40k/Battletech player, so I definitely come from the "paint your models" camp. That said, to date, the few games of Alpha Strike that I've played so far has been more of a "draft" format. Where I happen to own all the mech models, and my friend and I shuffle up the Alpha Strike cards that equate to my model collection and we assign 5-6 cards to each of us and then pick which 4 mechs will make up our Lance and which 1-2 won't. Then we add up our points and adjust our mechs from the cheap to expensive side (or the other way around) to more closely balance the match points. Then play. I'll admit I have a certain "fear of commitment" feeling in terms of dividing my collection into 2-4 factions (organized into lance/company) and painting them the proper faction colors.
I'm playing my 4th game of classic tomorrow with mostly "battle boomers" I love that term by the way I normally label them as Grognards but that is not a nice term. It is a open event were we all bring one mech for an random assignment assassination event on one map. I'm interested to see who has painted models. The most annoying thing for me is that there was a Tech level restriction and it took me ages work that out as a newer player because it is not in the manual.
I'll do a video on the common eras and what mechs are common. I will say a lot of people stay in the 3025 and 3050 era but there is a lot of fun stuff to be had in different eras. Specifically NSS armour and plasma weaponry
@@thebritishgeek I got the eras down but there is a old system call tech level that seemed to dictate the first edition tournaments but they stopped updating it at the clan invasion. CGL commented on one of the live streams they wanted to remove it.
Eh, the "rules levels" ie level I II etc were replaced by "introductory" which is AGoAC level, Standard = Total Warfare/BMM, Advanced = other sources except for the really weird one off stuff that falls under Experimental
@@warlok363 Thanks it was something I was struggling with. I went to that event and someone had an XXL engine and that is listed as experimental in the books but the mech was only Advanced on the Master unit list. Just finding the system messy and confusing for a newer player.
i was sitting here watching with my mouth open as it looked like you were absolutely ruining the paint job with an awful, flat, mud grey paint and then you started applying the wash and it started to look great. crazy how much of a difference that makes.
When I very first played BT in the late 80's we generally didn't bother painting but we were also using metals which looked kind of cool that way. I recently started buying the new minis and paint them. I have, with great effort, achieved mediocrity in the painting department but its fun and they look decent enough. I've even gooten some high praise from actually talented painters who fell in love with my clown-themed lance, meh though the work actually was. Hell, just spray the bastards OD green and you're good to go if you don't have the time for more and no one will care. The BT community has always been relaxed and open that way.
Personally I have the same issues you're showing with slapchop on Battletech minis. I have a new technique I'm going to start testing shortly to offset it, but the problem I've had is a lot of flat surfaces and edge highlights need clean gradients, and that's hard to get with zenithal airbrushing and contrast paints. I think slapchop is a fine way to paint battlemechs but getting those really popping panel lines, crispy cockpits, and bright highlights just needs more precise techniques that will take you longer and take more brush control. Slap chop away my friend. If I come up with another refinement to slapchop for mechs, I'll post it. :) I don't believe in any gatekeeping or elitism at all. We're here to make cool stompy robot stories on the tabletop.
Back in the mid 2000s, I stopped playing mini games due to not having time to paint. Got back into games back in 2017, I do my best to only play with painted minis. I have a crap ton of minis to paint but I have a good amount done. That is just me.
I got my first BattleTech box when I was 11, back in 89'. My first mini's were a nightmare to assemble and paint, but I did. I do get that between a lack of time and wanting to actually, the fact that BattleTech doesn't have rules against using whatever you want (Painted or not) is a draw. For me though, it digs at me, clawing at the back of my mind. I have a pair of Shilone that I NEED to get in a night sky Camo with red stripes for my Merc unit.
The other thing I greatly appreciate about the new influx of people is many are not getting stuck in the Succession Wars or Clan Invasion, people are actually looking to the later eras.
To me this is a none issue i dont care if someone has or hasn't painted their minis or if they use a proxy for the mini instead. In the end its a game and life is to short to worry about your opponents paint job or lack there of. I just want to have fun playing the game.
I can paint and I enjoy painting but I utterly despise how much social pressure is on people in these HOBBIES to paint miniatures. It is not about how quickly someone can do it, what new tools are out there etc. but the idea that I believe is one of the most prevalent is when someone has no idea how to paint a miniature the worst thing they can feel is that they can RUIN the miniature or even if that is not the case to try and empathize with someone if they fear they lack the skill or honestly get intimated by others work (I celebrate it because I want to learn how they do it and btw "2 thin coats" IS NOT the only amount that should be used at times). Teach others instead of just telling them "thin your paints" before I learned what it was that was much more of a What the Hell are you talking about. I am not saying you, but painting snobs need to either lower their arrogance to try and teach or back the Hell away from someone who just wants to play the game.
It depends upon the situation, though. It's not exactly good manners to repeatedly come to the table with lances of very similar-shaped 'mechs, if they're all just gray plastic. That's just a cheap way to try confusing an opponent.
always love bt, but just started to paint..and I suck. is it fun? kinda. expensive? yes easy, no. I'm gonna try and complete my massive army of bt plastic and metal but man, I have to say, for a newbie, u have NO idea, no matter how many hours of reading and watching vids if what to do, until you actually pick up paints and cans and brushes....😉
My first Warhammer minis sucked. But the way to think about it is this: does it look ok from 3ft away? If so then it's perfectly fine. Most of the detail gets lost anyways that's why I say contrast or speedpaint is perfectly sufficient for most things
Honestly the key is practice and learning the little techniques that make a model stand out. I would suggest looking up how to dry brush, its the best way to create cheaty highlights and it takes no time at all!
@@thebritishgeek yeah I looked up and tried. not sure if i did it right bc I'm too worried about basic painting!😃 I suck at camo schemes..but I dont like the one color look.
Oh I am bad at camo as well, I know the THEORY behind it but in practice... well thats another story. Post your mechs on one of the battletech groups, we will help you out!
My name is Rod Leary, and I'm a Battleboomer. 😉 I really dislike painting miniatures. I have no excuse, as I'm an artist. I just don't enjoy it. I would rather have a root canal. I have been playing Battletech since Battledroids came out in 1984. I attended tournaments in the late 80s and early 90s where only half the mechs were painted, if that, and it was still awesome. We were never made to feel bad if we didn't paint them. It was about the game, the tactics, the unfolding story. My biggest fear when I saw the droves of Warhammer refugees coming to Battletech was that they would bring with them an air of superiority, a "we're here to fix your hobby because you're doing it wrong, here's a paintbrush". So far, it hasn't been too bad, but it's being brought up more and more all the time. Regarding the end of your video, I can also laugh at my "unpainted" atlas smacking the face of your beautifully painted mech.😉With all that said, I really do enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work.
At the end of the day it is a game and it doesn't really matter either way. I suppose I come from 40k where everything is painted because it's massively encouraged by the company. I do think the culture within battletech is changing slowly due to the influx of new people, thankfully it's just related to paint and not wanting to change the rules or setting. Thanks for enjoying the vid, Battleboomer! 🤣
@@sleeplessknight99 My only real qualm with the WH guys is that they're so dependant on ridiculously overpriced paint and often obsessed with high effort techniques that just don't matter with mech minis, and thus tend to give people the idea that painting isn't as cheap and easy as it should be. It annoys me to hear overpriced GW paints advertised in Mech painting videos. Juat thin some Liquitex or equivalent inexpensive craft paint with water and a tiny but of soap and make your own washes with pigments and ink.
I'd rather play against standees than unpainted grey plastic. But I won't badger my friends who don't always make the time to paint either. It is just a game after all.
The verz fact that one side of this "debate" is the people who have been plazing this game for four decades is prettz much proof, that it is nothing more, but a bunch of people fleeing GW bringing their preconceptions with them, and finding thez no longer applz in a new context. Battletech is not a miniatures wargame. First and foremost, it is a ttrpg, secondlz its a multimedia setting, and mazbe at third place it is also a large scale combined arms wargame, centered much more around an intricate set of rules than anz sort of miniature. The models are a nice aside, nothing more. Now stop gatekeeping a communitz zou have just joined.
4:20 I dont think it had much to do with the 40k croud at all, actually. I've been a Mech fan since the 90s and MW2, and Battletech was always a painting hobby. The "it's bot required in the rules" seem to be more from rhe new-blood degenerate boardgamers who are only interested in Battletech now that it's trending. Any old-school fan of the setting will hust look at unpainted minis with puzzlement: it's like agowing up to a ball game in your underwear.
Really depends on your local scene: I've been playing since the mid 90s and hadn't played against a painted mech until maybe five years ago. I remember a lot of mech design and tactics threads on rec.games.mecha, but I can't recall a single painting thread.
This is another one of those "internet age" problems. Before people started talking about tabletop games on the internet and posting pictures etc. no one except the people you play with knew if your models were painted or how well they were painted. Now, everyone and their mother thinks it's their business how YOU play games with your friends. I agree that there is a certain "social contract" at play when you go to a tournament or if you are playing pick up games with people at a store, but especially with Battletech, I think most people are playing with their friends at home.
If you and who your playing with don't care then just play. If they do care then spend 5 minutes slapping some paint on. In the time it took to argue such a stupid "debate" every mech could have been painted already.
As an avid enthusiast, I believe that painting is an integral part of the miniature gaming experience.
It adds a layer of depth and immersion that simply can't be replicated by unpainted models.
However, I understand that not everyone shares my passion for painting. And you know what? That's perfectly okay. I won't be storming your castle with a mob of paintbrush-wielding fanatics, demanding that you devote hours to perfecting your brush strokes(I might if someone posts another £4000 haul on facebook).
Painting is a personal choice, and it should never feel like an obligation or a chore. If you're content with playing with bare plastic, that's your prerogative. After all, the heart of this hobby lies in the joy of gameplay and the camaraderie it fosters.
That being said, I encourage you to give painting a chance. You might discover a hidden talent or a newfound appreciation for the artistry behind it. Plus, it can be a wonderfully therapeutic and creative outlet, allowing you to express your individuality through your miniatures.
Remember, this is just my personal take on the matter, and I invite you to share your thoughts and opinions in the comments below(or hate mail, that works too). Let's keep the discussion respectful and open-minded as we navigate the colorful world of painting miniatures. Enjoy the video!
You’re painting, so why fence sit?
The entire argument is between people that actually participate in the hobby and those that don’t. It’s that simple. Stop attempting to be a hanger on in this space.
@@FLTREDUX kinda.
I think battletech is just evolving and this debate is just part of that.
Personally I think it's a debate that largely falls on the "if you can you probably should" side since most responses online and to this video are about that.
I'm not about to be insulting or confrontational to people over models that's not the mind of space I want here
I'm one of those old heads who played BattleTech in the 80s with just the cardboard mechs. I could never afford the metal minis, so I'm living my childhood dream with the minis available today.
Same here! In fact the first battletech campaign I ran in 96-97 was 40 card board mechs, 12 plastic minis, and coins for representing the vehicles and infantry!
the whole point of the 'no need for paint' or even 'no need for minis' is in the rulebooks, and they say it's there for if someone doesn't have the resources. it's a game at the end of the day and if you can't do it then you shouldn't be forced to. I paint my minis because i can, but I'll play with someone who can't.
Cardboard standees were good enough for us in the 80’s, and they're still good enough today. And if you run out of cardboard, there's always a lego man somewhere to use as a stand in. 🙂
Nicely painted minis are nice, but unpainted is fine too. Just say that they're a Comstar lance that wandered through a duststorm.
The problem is I don't play enough to have a faction.
Once a mini is painted, it's a better proxy for the one faction it's painted as, but a worse proxy for the many factions it's painted incorrectly for.
We just play it as a once in awhile board game at my house. Being generic isn't a bug it's a feature.
Honestly, when I saw the title, I thought the debate would be about painting the minis military camo or garish sports team colors.
Same lol
There's plenty of both in BT lore.
Any tabletop wargame requires three groups of people that all overlap: players, painters, and lore nerds. Together they form a triangle, with everyone falling somewhere inside. I've been trying to reach the center, balancing my painting and playing and lore knowledge together. BT allows very well for some people to drift much more into one or two of those categories. I've known players who barely knew anything about the lore and did almost no painting, but were deeply versed in the game on the table.
Battletech, as a painting community, usually sees people painting anything from a lance to a battalion in a unified paint scheme. I'm an oddball in that I'm painting a full regiment in the same colors. But I am also working to improve my skills: doing decals and highlighting as I expand my army. A coat of primer is just as acceptable as bare plastic or fully painted with decals.
It's not about the painting. As nice as it is to play opposite painted models, the only required rule of battletech is to have fun.
Exactly, to me its a 'kind for kind' situation, if someone is actually painting and putting effort in i do think its a bit of an insult to show up with bare plastic or (none agreed) proxies.
I do completely get painting is not everyone's thing but BattleTech sure is the odd one out when it comes to this. every other wargame expects if not demands that the paint be on the model, I suppose in a way that might be part of the appeal for a lot of folks who don't have the desire to paint?
at the end of the day I just want people to try painting at least once.
@@thebritishgeek For sure, painting up a model collection is actually really fun once you work up a method. I'm also a former 40K player, so I work in batches. Prime together, basecoat together, and then work through one color at a time for all the relevant models (details and highlights). The way I get my models in leaves me with 18 to do at a time, so the paint on the first model is dry by the time I finish the last.
But that's a method that works for me. The obstacle of looking at a pile of lance and star packs and feeling defeated before even priming them is real. I just happen to want the discipline of getting models painted, and still have a couple companies worth that I just haven't done (Com Guards, my secondary army).
dont feel so bad, I have 60 issues of Imperium to open and paint... plus 2 army boxes. hey, i only have my clan stuff left to paint for battletech!
@@thebritishgeek My Oriente Hussars are at a strength of 170 mechs (11,080 tons, 224,541 points), fully painted and almost all have decals. My Guards are much smaller in scale at about ⅔ that strength, and are mostly painted already.
I do want to get my IS all painted before I get my CHH/CSR orders started. Biggest obstacle at the moment is needing more bases. Mine is almost entirely printed, so I have to base them as well.
@@thebritishgeek I feel the not painting acceptance also stems from that Classic isn't really a wargame. It's a very detailed boardgame that involves war. Well very detailed compared to nowadays, I'm under the impression that for the time it was actually mid-tier crunchy at most.
Sort of like how Chainmail (and eventually D&D) evolved from wargames into something more skirmish to full on roleplay. Battletech started with "let's make a boardgame where these cool Japanese robots fight" (BattleDroids) and evolved into a more complex boardgame with wargame like aspects which then split into Battleforce for the strategic wargame and Alpha Strike for the tactical side.
It's a game, not a hobby. It's not a quirk that the rules explicitly call out anything with a facing can be used, it's intentional. The norm of painted wyswyg minis long predates both Battletech and 40K, it comes from the traditional miniature wargames. Battletech intentionally broke with that tradition and has stayed that way. It's a game, not a hobby.
It's also kind of presumptuous to be a self professed refugee from another game, then immediately tell the player base of the new game that they're doing it wrong and in order to succeed they need to start doing the things the way your old game did it. Again, it's not like the existing player base isn't familiar with the concept of painting minis. Maybe there's a reason the culture didn't adopt painting as a fundamental part of the game?
Rather than taking the time to understand the culture, you argue against a strawman (unpainted is better, really?) and insult the existing player base. That attitude rings a lot of warning bells for players who explicitly chose Battletech over 40K.
as a 'battle boomer' I've played the game at all different scales. at it's heart, battletech is a war game. just looking at the vast array of unit types available tells you this.
while lance or star combat is interesting, I've played at much larger scales.
fielding a full division (4 regiments or 15 battalions) requires a very different set up. we used the ASL (advanced squad leader) map boards. they are much smaller hexes which allows for much larger battlefield.
that said, obviously the mech mini's or even the card stock standee's are too big. we used the gaming standard 1/4" cardboard chits. they fit the hexes and allow for full organizational movement.
this type of game is not for everyone. for most, especially newer players, just running a Lance or star is challenging enough. it's when you play at the larger scale, the game really opens up you feel like you are in a war!
Having come late to this debate and unfamiliar with the different sides, I would be surprised if anyone thinks unpainted mechs are actually superior to painted mechs. I have played Battletech off and on, and if I were to collect the figs/minis I probably wouldn't paint them simply because it's not worth my scant time and effort. Plus I have bad eyesight, low standards and can use my imagination (out of necessity). But unpainted is not better in any way (other than it requires literally zero effort and materials) and I'll readily concede painted looks far better than unpainted.
I’ve been playing Battletech since 1990, and painting minis since 2010 or so.
My take on the painting debate is simple: I prefer to use painted minis for my games. However, I prefer playing the game to seeing painted minis across the table, so I don’t mind if my opponent uses unpainted minis, proxies, cardboard standees, or d8s to represent their forces. Just so long as I know which token represents which unit, I’m not too picky.
By the way, I am a very slow painter. The part of painting a model that takes the longest for me is simply starting. Once I get the model started, I will usually finish it (to rough tabletop standards).
I come from trading card games and, even though I'm not artsy, painting is one of the appeals to me of battltech.
In TCGs, I have trouble finding people to practice with and now that I have a newborn, getting out to events has been even harder.
Battletech gives me a lot to do by myself, whether it's theory crafting new lances, painting, researching new color schemes, or watching videos about painting or lore. And it's quite a bit easier to play solo against myself because there's no hidden information other than where the mechs are going to move next.
40k players really need to acclimate to the BT community, not the other way around. You don't get to let your hobby get ruined by outsiders and then come to mine and demand I live by your standards.
I'm a fan of both systems, but I find this whole " refugee " thing rather high horse and quite frankly monumentally stupid!
@TheBritichGeek Battletech isn't Warhammer 40K, there is no standard or social contract in Battletech. Now for Tournaments CGL does require at least a minimal paint standard for their games as well as you need to have official CLG or IWM products when playing, aside from that though paint your minis or don't paint your minis, enjoy the lore, the game, don't be a bully, don't be a jerk and have fun. As you said people don't respond well if you badger them right? It's not difficult to be nice. Perhaps this video could be more about the Tournament scene as official Demo Team games do require painted miniatures at minimum. So there is a separation of official and non-official games. I do commission work and paint my minis to a professional standard so I do value painted miniatures but I wouldn't bully people to paint their minis. I'd recommend you recognize the difference between the 40K culture and BT culture. Welcome to the Battletech hobby.
I understand that but I believe that battletech will change and has to if it's to actually keep it's growth against 40k.
Catalyst is clearly wanting to court the 40k crowd by improving the model quality and including community paint jobs in it's books.
I'd never bully anyone into doing something they don't want to, it's just something that is part of the hobby now and will most likely continue to become more prominent as battletech grows.
Because after all why not? It worked for Warhammer and they didn't give out that 4" timherwolf for no reason 😅
@@thebritishgeek I appreciate your reply 😅, So yes I see what you mean about Catalyst tempting the 40K crowd with big models and a move to make Battletech more approachable. But something that makes Battletech unique and different in it's core DNA is the freedom you have with Battletech.
If Catalyst changes the game completely and starts to implement yearly Codex like Editions to the rules, Starts making faction codex's for all of the IS and Clan factions and does this in hopes of trying to imitate 40K to the point of being identical, then most of the classic BT players will just check out like they did with Clicky Tech. They tried turning battletech into a clix game, they tried that failed miserably.
Thing is if fans want to play 40K which has strict army building rules with strict painting requirements, Then those people will just play Mechanicus or Imperial Knights and get their mech fix that way, or they can play Tau. 40K already has MECHS in its universe so this isn't new to Battletech fans.
All I'm saying is you have the right to play BT how you want, but most of the people I play with don't treat BT like 40K. If you like how 40K does things then just play 40K. Catalyst is doing really good with Battletech not because of but in spite of changes. Everybody who wanted a BT resurgence is happy with new models but that's about. The classic older BT fans don't really care about the new fluff or rules. We have plenty of material from the 80's and 90's to play the game and run campaigns. BT was never a competitive sport tabletop game like 40K and if people see CGL going that direction, the 80's 90's and early 2000's BT crowd will keep doing what they did. Play classic BT lol.
I am not in the camp that feels we need more people in our hobby. There's plenty of people who play BT already. I'm also not into large crowds, so BT is perfect for my specific tastes. I do get that some people love being in the popular crowd or popular table with all the people and all the noise. I like my quiet Table group and small crowd of people. Battletech's complexity and crunchy rules and unit possibilities is also a great barrier to entry. I've had new guys who came from 40K complain about how BT is this or that and it should be this or that. I always tell them, Great go play that then lol.
Mind you I own armies for 40K, I have a soup list of mechanicus, death watch, space marines, and knights. As well as Tau and some Eldar. But 40K is my power playing competitive game niche, BT is my casual pick up and play to have fun game. Never hurts to do both if you can afford it. Like I tell people, Why not both? You can play both games.
Sculpts look nice but they look even nicer when painted, if someone wants to take the time and effort to do it that's cool and more power to them if you feel jealous or inadequate by others putting their effort into it, that's a them issue and they can choose to also do it too or stay with unpainted stuff. As for me i went even further by breaking into scratch building in my off time.
Someone without the time and care to paint their pieces isn't going to have the time and care to be worth playing with.
I wouldn't refuse to play with someone who's brand new and wants to play their first game or two before they decide how they wan to paint up their first unit, nothing wrong with that.
But... If you've been playing for a while and don't have anything painted yet and don't have any plans to do so, I'm just not interested: go play Risk, or Catan, or something.
thumbs up for the F them comment!!! play how you want. standies, gray or painted. I except all mechs to be blown up!!! I have been playing both BTech and Warhammer since the early 80's. Never cared if the opponent is painted or not for me it is the fun of the game. how ever if I see a great paint job I will comment on that.
I've been playing all three sides since 1986 and I really don't care. Battletech is Battletech, whether it's cardboard standees, painted mini's or unpainted mini's. I love playing the game and will continue to do so. I will say this though, I find painting mini's very calming.
as someone who has been playing for 40 years, I can relate. we didn't have many mini's back then. we would use the mini's for our forces and the standee's as the opposition forces. the city tech box (original) was a big help by providing tanks and infantry.
As a kid who had my £4.50 per week paper round money, I remember being supremely dis-chuffed that I couldn't play wh40k because my two squads of marines that I'd built up over months weren't an effective force, and I wasn't allowed to substitute another model for a dreadnought. I played a little, borrowing models as required but it was always awkward. I'm always in favour of letting people substitute. Once people get into it they're more likely to know which mini's to spend their hard earned on, but especially for starting players they shouldn't be pay-walled into access.
Of course now I can afford to buy my own mini's, and despite not being a skilled painter (or even particularily enjoying the process yet) I'm making the effort. But while I encourage everyone to try and make an effort, if you're using rocks and loose change to enjoy the game, good for you.
TLDR; I agree with your sentiment, but I empathise with those who don't.
I didn't realise not painting Battletech minis was even a thing. Especially with classic Battletech, where it's probably only a handful of minis per side anyway. I played it in the late '80s to mid '90s (after which I didn't do any tabletop gaming until the pandemic, the HBS Battletech game and 3D printing revived my interest) and just started again the last few years. Not painting the minis never occurred to me, despite having played with cardboard standees a few times.
To me it's a case of if you have the means you probably should. Especially with classic battletech since as you said you have what? Max 5 units?
But I do get that some people don't like it
I like the discussion and guess I'm one of those Battle Boomers (assuming that refers to people who played this in the 80's) and am just getting back into the game. By the time I was half way through this video I was hoping to see some more videos by you showing more painting topics. Hope you're doing well and would love to see more content by you if you feel the urge.
Painting the mini is a separate hobby all together. What your talking about is gate keeping.
Gatekeeping is an entirely different topic. I'd argue that to some degree it's needed lest you turn into DnD( a complete shadow of its former self)
This debate is more about the effort people put into the hobby. Personally I'm not going to force you to paint but I think you probably should if your opponent has.
Gatekeepers is in important aspect of any community worth being in.
If you disdain the setting tmand the paint needed to honor it and your opponent, just stay on the other side of the gate, thank you very much.
In terms of investment of time and money, I would declare myself as an 80/20 40k/Battletech player, so I definitely come from the "paint your models" camp. That said, to date, the few games of Alpha Strike that I've played so far has been more of a "draft" format. Where I happen to own all the mech models, and my friend and I shuffle up the Alpha Strike cards that equate to my model collection and we assign 5-6 cards to each of us and then pick which 4 mechs will make up our Lance and which 1-2 won't. Then we add up our points and adjust our mechs from the cheap to expensive side (or the other way around) to more closely balance the match points. Then play. I'll admit I have a certain "fear of commitment" feeling in terms of dividing my collection into 2-4 factions (organized into lance/company) and painting them the proper faction colors.
I'm playing my 4th game of classic tomorrow with mostly "battle boomers" I love that term by the way I normally label them as Grognards but that is not a nice term. It is a open event were we all bring one mech for an random assignment assassination event on one map. I'm interested to see who has painted models. The most annoying thing for me is that there was a Tech level restriction and it took me ages work that out as a newer player because it is not in the manual.
I'll do a video on the common eras and what mechs are common.
I will say a lot of people stay in the 3025 and 3050 era but there is a lot of fun stuff to be had in different eras.
Specifically NSS armour and plasma weaponry
@@thebritishgeek I got the eras down but there is a old system call tech level that seemed to dictate the first edition tournaments but they stopped updating it at the clan invasion. CGL commented on one of the live streams they wanted to remove it.
@@matthewpena3932 tbh there's loads of chaff that needs to be gotten rid of in order for battletech to grow.
Eh, the "rules levels" ie level I II etc were replaced by "introductory" which is AGoAC level, Standard = Total Warfare/BMM, Advanced = other sources except for the really weird one off stuff that falls under Experimental
@@warlok363 Thanks it was something I was struggling with. I went to that event and someone had an XXL engine and that is listed as experimental in the books but the mech was only Advanced on the Master unit list. Just finding the system messy and confusing for a newer player.
i was sitting here watching with my mouth open as it looked like you were absolutely ruining the paint job with an awful, flat, mud grey paint and then you started applying the wash and it started to look great. crazy how much of a difference that makes.
When I very first played BT in the late 80's we generally didn't bother painting but we were also using metals which looked kind of cool that way. I recently started buying the new minis and paint them. I have, with great effort, achieved mediocrity in the painting department but its fun and they look decent enough. I've even gooten some high praise from actually talented painters who fell in love with my clown-themed lance, meh though the work actually was. Hell, just spray the bastards OD green and you're good to go if you don't have the time for more and no one will care. The BT community has always been relaxed and open that way.
Personally I have the same issues you're showing with slapchop on Battletech minis. I have a new technique I'm going to start testing shortly to offset it, but the problem I've had is a lot of flat surfaces and edge highlights need clean gradients, and that's hard to get with zenithal airbrushing and contrast paints. I think slapchop is a fine way to paint battlemechs but getting those really popping panel lines, crispy cockpits, and bright highlights just needs more precise techniques that will take you longer and take more brush control.
Slap chop away my friend. If I come up with another refinement to slapchop for mechs, I'll post it. :)
I don't believe in any gatekeeping or elitism at all. We're here to make cool stompy robot stories on the tabletop.
Back in the mid 2000s, I stopped playing mini games due to not having time to paint. Got back into games back in 2017, I do my best to only play with painted minis. I have a crap ton of minis to paint but I have a good amount done. That is just me.
I got my first BattleTech box when I was 11, back in 89'. My first mini's were a nightmare to assemble and paint, but I did. I do get that between a lack of time and wanting to actually, the fact that BattleTech doesn't have rules against using whatever you want (Painted or not) is a draw. For me though, it digs at me, clawing at the back of my mind. I have a pair of Shilone that I NEED to get in a night sky Camo with red stripes for my Merc unit.
The other thing I greatly appreciate about the new influx of people is many are not getting stuck in the Succession Wars or Clan Invasion, people are actually looking to the later eras.
Idk man paint isn't gonna help how incredibly bad some of these sculpts are, especially the old ones, yikes!
To me this is a none issue i dont care if someone has or hasn't painted their minis or if they use a proxy for the mini instead. In the end its a game and life is to short to worry about your opponents paint job or lack there of. I just want to have fun playing the game.
I can paint and I enjoy painting but I utterly despise how much social pressure is on people in these HOBBIES to paint miniatures.
It is not about how quickly someone can do it, what new tools are out there etc. but the idea that I believe is one of the most prevalent is when someone has no idea how to paint a miniature the worst thing they can feel is that they can RUIN the miniature or even if that is not the case to try and empathize with someone if they fear they lack the skill or honestly get intimated by others work (I celebrate it because I want to learn how they do it and btw "2 thin coats" IS NOT the only amount that should be used at times).
Teach others instead of just telling them "thin your paints" before I learned what it was that was much more of a What the Hell are you talking about.
I am not saying you, but painting snobs need to either lower their arrogance to try and teach or back the Hell away from someone who just wants to play the game.
It depends upon the situation, though. It's not exactly good manners to repeatedly come to the table with lances of very similar-shaped 'mechs, if they're all just gray plastic. That's just a cheap way to try confusing an opponent.
Just use Othello pieces with stickers.
A couple years eariler, I was playing more than painting. Today it is the opposite. I like to have something to do on a downtime.
"...approaching your fifties..." *laughs, hollowly* Yeah. And the rest...
always love bt, but just started to paint..and I suck. is it fun? kinda. expensive? yes easy, no.
I'm gonna try and complete my massive army of bt plastic and metal but man, I have to say, for a newbie, u have NO idea, no matter how many hours of reading and watching vids if what to do, until you actually pick up paints and cans and brushes....😉
My first Warhammer minis sucked. But the way to think about it is this: does it look ok from 3ft away? If so then it's perfectly fine. Most of the detail gets lost anyways that's why I say contrast or speedpaint is perfectly sufficient for most things
@@thebritishgeek ty. my nephew just saw the ones I did for the first time and he thought they were awesome, so I guess they look ok, to a newbie.😊
Honestly the key is practice and learning the little techniques that make a model stand out. I would suggest looking up how to dry brush, its the best way to create cheaty highlights and it takes no time at all!
@@thebritishgeek yeah I looked up and tried. not sure if i did it right bc I'm too worried about basic painting!😃
I suck at camo schemes..but I dont like the one color look.
Oh I am bad at camo as well, I know the THEORY behind it but in practice... well thats another story. Post your mechs on one of the battletech groups, we will help you out!
I do liked u battletech paint with the marauder
My name is Rod Leary, and I'm a Battleboomer. 😉 I really dislike painting miniatures. I have no excuse, as I'm an artist. I just don't enjoy it. I would rather have a root canal. I have been playing Battletech since Battledroids came out in 1984. I attended tournaments in the late 80s and early 90s where only half the mechs were painted, if that, and it was still awesome. We were never made to feel bad if we didn't paint them. It was about the game, the tactics, the unfolding story. My biggest fear when I saw the droves of Warhammer refugees coming to Battletech was that they would bring with them an air of superiority, a "we're here to fix your hobby because you're doing it wrong, here's a paintbrush". So far, it hasn't been too bad, but it's being brought up more and more all the time. Regarding the end of your video, I can also laugh at my "unpainted" atlas smacking the face of your beautifully painted mech.😉With all that said, I really do enjoy your videos. Keep up the great work.
Oh, another thing, I'm going on 60, not 50. I wish.
At the end of the day it is a game and it doesn't really matter either way. I suppose I come from 40k where everything is painted because it's massively encouraged by the company.
I do think the culture within battletech is changing slowly due to the influx of new people, thankfully it's just related to paint and not wanting to change the rules or setting.
Thanks for enjoying the vid,
Battleboomer! 🤣
ua-cam.com/video/47EcnVtpHXA/v-deo.html
We're here to fix your hobby. Here's a paintbrush.
@@sleeplessknight99
My only real qualm with the WH guys is that they're so dependant on ridiculously overpriced paint and often obsessed with high effort techniques that just don't matter with mech minis, and thus tend to give people the idea that painting isn't as cheap and easy as it should be.
It annoys me to hear overpriced GW paints advertised in Mech painting videos. Juat thin some Liquitex or equivalent inexpensive craft paint with water and a tiny but of soap and make your own washes with pigments and ink.
I'd rather play against standees than unpainted grey plastic. But I won't badger my friends who don't always make the time to paint either. It is just a game after all.
Funny I just paint the minis and not actually play lol
Cardboard is king, grey plastic is an acceptable substitute. Wanna paint shit? 'Play' 40k.
I mean if your friends or hobby group accept that then sure, Its perfectly acceptable. I ain't gonna argue with how people play a game.
Heathenry.
If you're too proud and lazy to paint 4-12 pieces of plastic, go play Risk, or Monopoly.
@@horsemumbler1 Too old and too crypto fascist. If you can attribute that quote you too can win the no-prize.
The verz fact that one side of this "debate" is the people who have been plazing this game for four decades is prettz much proof, that it is nothing more, but a bunch of people fleeing GW bringing their preconceptions with them, and finding thez no longer applz in a new context.
Battletech is not a miniatures wargame. First and foremost, it is a ttrpg, secondlz its a multimedia setting, and mazbe at third place it is also a large scale combined arms wargame, centered much more around an intricate set of rules than anz sort of miniature. The models are a nice aside, nothing more. Now stop gatekeeping a communitz zou have just joined.
4:20
I dont think it had much to do with the 40k croud at all, actually. I've been a Mech fan since the 90s and MW2, and Battletech was always a painting hobby.
The "it's bot required in the rules" seem to be more from rhe new-blood degenerate boardgamers who are only interested in Battletech now that it's trending.
Any old-school fan of the setting will hust look at unpainted minis with puzzlement: it's like agowing up to a ball game in your underwear.
Really depends on your local scene: I've been playing since the mid 90s and hadn't played against a painted mech until maybe five years ago. I remember a lot of mech design and tactics threads on rec.games.mecha, but I can't recall a single painting thread.
It has never been a painting hobbz. Most of its earlz content didnt even use minis.
This is another one of those "internet age" problems. Before people started talking about tabletop games on the internet and posting pictures etc. no one except the people you play with knew if your models were painted or how well they were painted.
Now, everyone and their mother thinks it's their business how YOU play games with your friends.
I agree that there is a certain "social contract" at play when you go to a tournament or if you are playing pick up games with people at a store, but especially with Battletech, I think most people are playing with their friends at home.
If you and who your playing with don't care then just play. If they do care then spend 5 minutes slapping some paint on. In the time it took to argue such a stupid "debate" every mech could have been painted already.
Essentially yes.
It's a kind for kind situation.