Top 10 Pendragon Mechanics other RPGs Should Use

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  • Опубліковано 25 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 94

  • @jamesrizza2640
    @jamesrizza2640 Місяць тому +8

    I definitely like the personality traits over alignment. It also challenges the, "That's what my character would do!" idiom. "Oh Yeah! Roll for it beotch!"

  • @anarionelendili8961
    @anarionelendili8961 Місяць тому +3

    As for me, the dynastic (family) aspect of Pendragon is the biggest thing. The characters are part of the society and the world, rather than wandering murderhobos. Everyone dies eventually, so it is better to go out with a bang so that your heroic doom will have poems and songs written about it, and your heir will then have something to avenge once they are knighted. The personality traits and passions encourage the melodrama and taking big swings.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +1

      Yeah for sure - everything works together very well in the setting!

  • @martabachynsky8545
    @martabachynsky8545 Місяць тому +4

    Great upload. My husband and I have used the Traits and Passions for years now. We kind of adopted it in place of, or to help guide D&D alignment. We do feasts, have "wintering", although we do it a bit differently. For example, my paladin of Dian had developed an amour for the Duke's wife (suffering in silence though). She noticed, and was flattered and a bit amused. To save him some discomfort, introduced him to some of the ladies of the court. This happened just a couple of sessions ago, so I don't know how it will all play out.
    My husband DM's game is a homebrew 3.5 set in something like an alternate Europe. The names of countries are slightly changed with some elements of Tolkien (Iona, Burgundy, Mayne, Angmar, etc) , and there is a bit of magic, but there are no goblin bartenders, magic shops and the like. Human usually, with a _rare_ choice of halfling, dwarf, or half-elf. (elves are like the wild fey in the new version of D&D).

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +1

      Thanks for the kind words - that sounds like an amazing use of “wintering” and an awesome story! Thanks for sharing!

  • @TomTrustworthy
    @TomTrustworthy Місяць тому +9

    The personality trait part is pretty cool. The GM and players just have to remember to check it and sometimes make the call that might not be best for the player but the character cant help it.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +1

      Right - it makes for good story moments. There is also good wiggle room, so being deceitful for example can mean lots of things (as long as it means not being completely honest).

  • @bhorrthunderhoof4925
    @bhorrthunderhoof4925 Місяць тому +3

    Congrats to brining the attention of how Pendragon-Mechanics can be integrated into other TTRPGS to a broader audience. They are so good that they are in adapted form a basic part in my own TTRP where I teach players to be proactive instead of reactive. And yes the feast-rules are georgious. Nice hint on the Monster Overhaul, it fits right into the feast-theme!

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      Thanks for the kind words! Yea, feasts and food are under-performers in RPGs!

  • @AndrewKolb101
    @AndrewKolb101 Місяць тому +2

    I play GURPS so I already have access to most of this but I will give Pendragon a chance.

  • @rolanejo8512
    @rolanejo8512 Місяць тому +4

    i have always wanted to play Pendragon. I think you sold me. A great game that addresses many of these issues (vassalage, feasting, wintering) within a d20 system is "Wolves of God" by Kevin Crawford.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      Thanks for checking the video out, and for the rec! I will check it out!

  • @MartijnVos
    @MartijnVos Місяць тому +1

    All of these are things that many RPGs do, and in several cases have done since before Pendragon did it.
    1. Armor reduces damage in GURPS, Das Schwarze Auge, WFRP, and many, many other systems.
    2. Different skills for different weapons also occurs in almost every single RPG system
    3. Passions are definitely something I'd love to see more of, but there are already many systems that do something similar, from the spiritual Attributes in The riddle of Steel, Passions in Reign, Beliefs in The Burning Wheel (don't give dice bonuses but do get you metacurrency that you can use to buy extra dice), and many others.
    4. Different combat systems for different levels of combat is also not uncommon. Even D&D itself started out as a smaller scale variation of large scale battle systems. So did WFRP. Many systems also have rules to treat large numbers of combatants as a single entity.
    5. Relationships is definitely something many RPGs avoid, and Pendragon deals with in a unique way, but that's also partially because of the enormous time span; you need to get married and have kids so you can play the next generation.
    6. Personality Traits is something plenty of systems do have, although I don't think they handle it quite like Pendragon does. But personality traits getting in your way has absolutely been pretty common in many RPGs since the 1990s.
    7. Base building is something that a couple of RPGs have touched upon, but not even close to how Pendragon does it. But again, that's also because the enormous scope of Pendragon. But that's definitely something I'd love to see more of.
    Pendragon is absolutely unique because of its scope, and handles a number of topics that simply wouldn't fit into other systems. Playing someone with a family, relationships, commitments etc wouldn't really work in a game of dungeoncrawling murderhobos, but many other systems could absolutely learn a thing or two there.
    But maybe you could also look at a few more systems, because there's a lot more to RPGs than just D&D and its clones.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  23 дні тому

      You are completely correct, most of these are not unique to Pendragon. I am pointing out what I want to see more of in other RPGs.
      I appreciate your comment, because my rpg knowledge is not comprehensive and it’s great learning from you and others in the comments - thanks!

  • @StarlasAiko
    @StarlasAiko Місяць тому +1

    Obscure Tales has a similar mechanic to Pendragon's Virtues, but based on character traits, rather than virtues. FOr my own system, I definitely want such a system present.
    I like the principle of armour reducing damage. This automatically includes preventing damage/getting hit, if the damage reduction is greater than the damage caused. The idea that heavier armour makes you harder to hit is farsical. Rolemaster has a very nice solution to this.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  23 дні тому

      Thanks for pointing these out - adding them to my list!

    • @anarionelendili8961
      @anarionelendili8961 18 днів тому

      In D&D-style game systems, it helps when you don't think of AC as 'harder to hit' but 'harder to damage'. And instead use the 'Touch AC', just 10+dodge bonuses, when it matters if the baddie can lay hands on them for a touch spell or something.

    • @StarlasAiko
      @StarlasAiko 18 днів тому

      @@anarionelendili8961 I agree. In our group, when we play post-ThAC0 D20, any attack roll bellow 10, the attacker would have missed even if the target had stood still (assuming no negative Dex modifier);
      Above 10 but bellow 10+Dex=Dodged or Parried;
      Above 10+Dex but bellow 10+Dex+Shield=Blocked;
      Above 10+Dex+Shield but bellow 10+Dex+Shield+Armour=Hit but glanced off of armour;
      Above 10+Dex+Shield+Armour=Hit and Hurt

  • @jonathanlochridge9462
    @jonathanlochridge9462 Місяць тому +8

    Pendragon is cool. It isn't for every player group though, I am working on making a ttrpg, and am planning to use basic roleplaying as a base, so I get several of these mechanics free.
    I would love to see you make more videos like this with other rpgs too.
    It's focused on ancient Chineese magic and folk religions, Daoism, and
    Feasts and Festivals are super cool.
    I am planning to have some more food and social related mechanics. And to have one of the major starting modules revolve arround a feast for some minor deity.
    I also want to run some big tournament arcs, which would involve intrigue, gladatorial/champion combat, and then trials of other skills.
    Like alchemy, puzzle solving, Feng Shui/Geomancy, Beast master competitions.(Like a dog show but with supernaturally powered creatrures.)
    And you would have different people trying to get glory, making temporary or permanent allies, and sabotaging each other.

    • @KamilMalach
      @KamilMalach Місяць тому +1

      Does it have a name yet? Because I want to check it out when it's done. Sounds interesting.

    • @jonathanlochridge9462
      @jonathanlochridge9462 Місяць тому +2

      @@KamilMalach Not yet, I have about 15k words written.
      I want to have at least 3 modules coming out at the same time, sample npcs, the works.
      (I have like 3 dozen module ideas, so if sells decently I might come out with 4,5 or 10 module bundle books you can buy after the game comes out.)
      If does worse, I probably will just release the outlines without art. As like 50 cent 1-4 page modules instead.
      And probably a setting that comes with it and a book with tables and advice for helping you make your own in the same genre.
      Maybe you could be one of the 2nd wave playtesters, do you GM? or just play?
      I already have a group for the direct stuff, but in 2-4 months when I get it ready enough to have other people run the modules, I am going to want to send it to people to try out.
      regardless, I am planning to have quickstart rules with 1 free module, which will come out before the full game.
      I haven't finished setting up it's website yet. But I will reply again when I do, So that you can get the playtest there when it's ready.

    • @jonathanlochridge9462
      @jonathanlochridge9462 Місяць тому +1

      I am thinking for the modules of doing, 1 mystery, 1 dungeon, and then a big festival or tournament adventure.
      (Might make the tournament a mini-campaign for like 3-5 sessions instead. Not sure.)

    • @KamilMalach
      @KamilMalach Місяць тому +1

      ​@@jonathanlochridge9462 I could introduce few people to a new system or a setting. This one caught my attention, so feel free to call me when it's finished.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +1

      Love the ideas! And yeah Pendragon isn’t for everyone - it does its theme and game type really well, but it is quite specific

  • @biffstrong1079
    @biffstrong1079 Місяць тому +2

    Traveller has a similar armour mechanic where if you are hit it soaks up a certain amount of damage. Original D&D had weapon proficiencies. You had a negative to hit with weapons you were not proficient with. It was worse for a MU not as bad for a fighter.
    You can get various other titles etc in DND but it's not structured and needs the dm to have this in their world. Often it's used as another reward.
    Im a big fan of episodic play
    Interesting thanks

  • @bs5730
    @bs5730 Місяць тому +11

    Mörk Borg has amour which reduces damage, I also really like it as mechanism. Additionally, the heaviest armour protects you the most but makes you easier to hit!

    • @KamiRecca
      @KamiRecca Місяць тому +3

      Mörk Borg are made by Swedes, i bet they played Drakar och Demoner in their youth, one of swedens most popular rpgs. And this is how it was done there. Also with separate weapon skills.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +4

      Thats cool; the give and take w/ armor weight

    • @elijahherstal776
      @elijahherstal776 Місяць тому +1

      That's clever. I've always liked the idea of armor being a damage reduction mechanic, but also giving the player some kind of 'deliberate defense' (block/parry rolls when attacked).
      After all, the best kind of armor is "not getting hit"

    • @bs5730
      @bs5730 Місяць тому

      I guess for full context, heavier armour technically makes it harder to dodge attacks, since Mørk Borg monsters don't roll to attack you, you roll to avoid their attack. The choice becomes: prioritise hit avoidance (as you say!) or prioritise soaking damage. Fun that there is a choice, and an easy way to provide flavour to characters in a system that often doesn't have classes.

  • @anarionelendili8961
    @anarionelendili8961 Місяць тому +1

    Just as a quick comment, there is a new edition of Pendragon out, the 6th edition, which have slightly different rules in some cases than the 5th edition you seem to be referencing. Unfortunately the GM's book is not out yet (should be next year), so we don't have full Battle and feast rules yet. There is a new Battle system appendix in the 6th edition Starter Set, which moves it more towards the Book of Feasts style of battle encounters rather than the minutia of the Book of Battle, whereas the feast rules will probably remain close to the Book of Feasts but with some tweaks from the years of playtesting and feedback.
    The other big difference compared to what you said is that some of the weapon skills are merged: Sword covers all swords, whether one- or two-handed, 1-handed hafted (a lever with a weight on the end used in one hand) covers one-handed maces, axes and hammers, and so forth. There are also beginning skill values depending on your DEX or APP: no longer will you start with a 0 in a new weapon skill, unable to hit anything.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  23 дні тому

      Good to know, thanks for the update! I haven’t looked too close at 6e yet

    • @anarionelendili8961
      @anarionelendili8961 22 дні тому

      @@paperdicegames6585 Rumor has it that the GM's Book is now in the printers, so fingers crossed that it will be out by summer.

  • @swedichboy1000
    @swedichboy1000 Місяць тому +6

    Ever played Drakar & Demoner? Some of these rules are also used in that game.

    • @jonathanlochridge9462
      @jonathanlochridge9462 Місяць тому +2

      haven't even heard of it. what's it's like?

    • @SteveDahlskog
      @SteveDahlskog Місяць тому +2

      Low level fantasy based on Magic World and BRP from Chaosium. Now it is (7ed) Dragonbane from Free League.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +2

      Nope, but its on my reading list now! Thank you!

    • @stephaz659
      @stephaz659 Місяць тому

      U could say Pendragon and Dragonbane are cousins, both use roll under on a d20 derived from Chaosium's BRP

  • @elfhunter6
    @elfhunter6 Місяць тому +1

    I'm already super interested in d100 games, but never looked into Pendragon. Sounds fantastic!
    Subbed.

  • @rodjohnson989
    @rodjohnson989 Місяць тому +1

    Good video! You could easily have made it about BRP based games in general since they share a lot of these. I'm currently on a Magic World kick, but am interested in Pendragon.

  • @aproudresidentofinnsmouth9105
    @aproudresidentofinnsmouth9105 Місяць тому +1

    mythras shares a lot with pendragon, especially the passions system. it's a really great system, and it cut-and-pastes into other games so easily

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      I will check it out, thanks for the rec!

    • @stephaz659
      @stephaz659 Місяць тому +1

      Mythras was basically RQ 6th Edition and is a great game. Chaosium's RuneQuest in Glorantha also uses passions. Same family. BRP fanboy here.

  • @firebornliger
    @firebornliger Місяць тому +1

    Definitely some neat ideas that I'll have to look into.
    My group is kinda branching out, but being a 3rd/PF player for the most part, I'm always looking for importable mechanics to spice that up.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      Yeah taking that first step can be tough sometimes for a group to do

  • @Ishpeck
    @Ishpeck Місяць тому +1

    I take a lot of these features for granted as most of the games in my bookshelf seem to have variations of them

  • @Ewetterman
    @Ewetterman Місяць тому +2

    I agree wholeheartedly!!!

  • @MrJeb2100
    @MrJeb2100 Місяць тому +3

    There is a difference between being hit and being injured. D&D AC address how difficult it is to hit AND to damage an opponent thru one simple mechanic.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      Very true, love this take. It has stuck around for a reason

    • @aaronsomerville2124
      @aaronsomerville2124 Місяць тому

      Agreed, I actually think that the D&D method is more realistic.

    • @icarian553
      @icarian553 Місяць тому

      It still doesn't make much sense that when you get hit and injured a sword does same amount of damage to someone in no armor compared to someone in full plate. Pendragon and RQ and other similar games also offer more tactical options because of this armor mechanic. You can decide to rely only on your armor soaking of damage instead of trying to defend against every attack. This is particularly useful against multiple opponents, which in these games can be almost certain death sentence. Also these games are much more lethal than D&D. You can die from one or two hits no matter how powerful you're.

  • @mekkler
    @mekkler Місяць тому +2

    I started RPGs with AD&D 2e, and I've never heard of the Pendragon games. It sounds like a very well thought series. I would give all of those mechanics a try, and I wholeheartedly agree with the armor mechanic. What is up with THAC0 anyway.

    • @anarionelendili8961
      @anarionelendili8961 18 днів тому

      In D&D-style game systems, it helps when you don't think of AC as 'harder to hit' but 'harder to damage'. And instead use the 'Touch AC', just 10+dodge bonuses, when it matters if the baddie can lay hands on them for a touch spell or something.

  • @barbarossarotbart
    @barbarossarotbart Місяць тому +1

    It seems that you use D&D and its rules as the basis for most RPGs, but numbers 10, 9, 7, 6 are already used by most other RPGs. D&D is the only one in which armor makes some one harder to hit. D&D is also one of the few in which your fighting skill is not liked to your weapon proficiencies. Many RPGs have different combat rules for fighting on foot, fighting on horseback, skirmishes, sea battles and full battles. In many RPGs connections, contacts, titles etc. are also part of the rules.

  • @pzalterias5154
    @pzalterias5154 Місяць тому +1

    Wich edition would you recommand to try Pendragon ?

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      Not sure if I have enough experience to answer this in a definitive way, but it seems that 5th edition is the most modern (from a book and resource formatting perspective) but still holds on to what makes Pendragon great, and has a TON of resources for it. I play 5th.
      I have not played 6th yet, which just came out.

    • @stephaz659
      @stephaz659 Місяць тому

      If u would like to play other characters than knights (magic users), 4th is the only edition that allows it. Other than that, I concur with the above on 5th as there have been very few rules modifications, so I'd go 5.2. I'd wait up on the new Pendragon Campaign before committing to the latest edition, but the starter boxed set is great if u wanna try it.

  • @TomTrustworthy
    @TomTrustworthy Місяць тому +2

    Good video, but it just makes me wish there were modern games with most/all of this already baked in.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +1

      Same! There are some good suggestions in the comments too

    • @TomTrustworthy
      @TomTrustworthy Місяць тому

      ​@@paperdicegames6585It makes me wonder if many of these things can be made as a standalone expansion for any system.

    • @malkomalkavian
      @malkomalkavian Місяць тому +1

      Why is a game being modern a plus?

    • @TomTrustworthy
      @TomTrustworthy Місяць тому

      @@malkomalkavian Easier to find a group. I mean looking for a group for ANYTHING other than D&D is already rough.

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      @ Also, there have been improvements in design and layout over time that I think of as “quality of life” improvements

  • @IAcePTI
    @IAcePTI Місяць тому +3

    Take at look at the game called Wilderfeast... is all about food and monster hunting xD

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому

      I will add it to my list, thanks!

    • @IAcePTI
      @IAcePTI Місяць тому

      @@paperdicegames6585 If you know the pc game Monster Hunter, the game is that but with more focus on the food and no focus at all at getting new armor. Yet you still hunt for parts xD

  • @aaronsomerville2124
    @aaronsomerville2124 Місяць тому

    Original D&D uses Chainmail, a miniature wargame as its base combat system. Thus you have the basic Chainmail system for skirmish or full battle scale, Man to Man for single combat, the Fantasy Matrix for heroes vs monsters, and the “alternate system” using a d20 vs AC. Subsequent versions lost all that nuance unfortunately.

  • @sethpeterson8261
    @sethpeterson8261 Місяць тому +3

    The vast majority of Rpg systems already have armor reduce damage rather than make you harder to hit. That's mostly just a shitty DnD mechanic and games that use AC generally aren't "other Rpgs", but just another on the pile of 1000's of D&D reskins

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +2

      I wouldn’t call it shitty, just different - but yeah there are other systems that do armor like Pendragon. It was low (high) on the list for that reason

  • @danielsommerlykke9475
    @danielsommerlykke9475 Місяць тому +1

    The Monster Overhaul is great.
    Pendragon is terrible, so many dreadfully awful mechanics. But I can imagine it could be fun when playing solo.

  • @deckrect
    @deckrect Місяць тому +1

    Perhaps you should read more RPG system's...

    • @paperdicegames6585
      @paperdicegames6585  Місяць тому +1

      More RPG system’s whats…feasts?
      I kid I kid. Yes I love reading rpg systems and videos like this get great discussion going about awesome mechanics. Thanks for joining!

    • @deckrect
      @deckrect Місяць тому +1

      @paperdicegames6585 My point is that most of the time, it seems you're comparing to D&D, but it's not the only one. Most of the things you like are covered, for example, by GURPS, which is a very old system. Even feasts may be done better in GURPS using the social engineering rules. Also, there are stuff you enjoy that are too setting specific. Not all systems should care about winter. But it's important for a low fantasy, medieval England game. I remember running a game back in 1996 where I copied the virtues system, what is very good in use because it works like sliding bars. But for using such things you need to assume a moral compass for the game on the first place. Few systems are such intimately bound to a pre set of moral. Now, changing a little bit the direction here, I hated the armor class thing forever decades. But now I confess I understand and admire the concept better, after spending so much time advocating for damage reduction.

    • @patrickpaterson4442
      @patrickpaterson4442 Місяць тому

      I'm going to second GURPS. Pretty much all these mechanics and more are available to you. The sheer granularity of optional mechanics is one of the most intimidating but rewarding aspects of the system. Once you get used to it, deciding on which mechanics you use can color your campaign just as much as setting and plot.

    • @anarionelendili8961
      @anarionelendili8961 18 днів тому

      @@deckrect Re: moral compass in Pendragon... It is not strictly necessary, as revealed by the various in-game religions in the game. You can be a (Celtic) Pagan, and suddenly being Proud is a good thing for you, rather than bad as it is for the Christians. And of course there are plenty of people who don't conform with their religion's idea of a virtuous life.

    • @deckrect
      @deckrect 18 днів тому

      @anarionelendili8961 I think it kind of broke when they added expansions. The original Pendragon was heavily framed for a certain type of character ( Christian knight) and after they created more character options, the moral thing, which was embedded to the game core, became somewhat wrong. It's like adding a mechanic for profit in a game about merchants and then create an expansion for playing with monks, turning the profit irrelevant.