How No Touch Techniques Work in Aikido • Martial Arts Journey
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- There are people who believe that no touch techniques work. Even some martial arts masters fall into this delusion. Yet what is really behind the no touch techniques in martial arts? How do they work and why do some people believe they do? This is the first part of a two part video where we'll be looking at how and why do no touch techniques work and exist in martial arts.
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Do you also think this is how no touch techniques work?
There are no-touch techniques that are known to be very effective; they're called feints. As you say, if people don't recognise your feint as a valid threat, then they won't give you the reaction you desire. If you train in a limited circle of people all doing the same techniques you can draw false conclusions about what is applicable to the general population.
Martial Arts Journey I’d like to believe this is what was going on towards the later part of ueshiba’s teachings. I’ve heard stories from my sensei about how later on in his life he was a little bit gone upstairs. This would be great if no touch techniques were more like feints but aikido and aikido like movements are so uncommon in combat arts that you’re never going to get this reaction in real life from other people.
Unfortunately it seems as though practitioners following this no touch stuff haven’t developed these reflexes and they aren’t teaching these as feints but techniques in of themselves so this explanation isn’t adequate.
Your wife is very tiny. She looks like mini human. Very cute.
I think the issue also comes in when you know as a loyal student that you want to cooperate with your master. That's why you play along. Also, when it doesn't work, you are told that you need to work on your sense for recieving energy and you are not yet enough developed to do this kind of stuff. I have been there unfortunately, my eyes were opened by someone who got out of the system and I am glad I met him
sure, you feint. then do the real attack. but that's not the way this"masters" do it. their students go flying with just a move. and that's just coreography...
Being too cooperative is one of the most dangerous things anyone can do in martial arts. It trains others to think bad technique with low power works. Always be honest with your training partners. You don't have to be rough, but make contact and offer resistance.
Yeah, this is the difference. Nothing terrible about Aikido that doesn't happen in every other martial art. The school has to teach the art properly or it doesn't matter what art you are learning...
indeed, themax. Any technique can be made to work. It is the artist, not the art.
Well our Aikido Master demonstrates us what to do when the attacker does other stuff. Every Time we learn a new technique, he asks us what we would do in such a situation as an attacker and demonstrates us what to do.
@432fuuzz Not true, but everything should be *also* trained under pressure. (as in in full contact sparring) You can train *more or longer* with less pressure. (as in light to medium sparring - semi-contact and/or reduced speed) Especially when you're training something not related to hitting strength such as footwork, distance and angles.
Some people learn better under pressure, other with less, it depends on the person.
@432fuuzz The thing is, not everything can or should be trained under pressure or even more so fully pressure tested and definitely not always. This is why you shouldn't use the word everything or always when you do not mean it. Someone might take your hyperbole for being an actual thing.
Such all or nothing approach to training does exist in the wild, in some unfriendly, highly competitive dojos and gyms...
Hypnosis, in other words. And the instructor even hypnotizes himself, apparently.
Yeah but it doesn't work if you lift one toe and turn your tongue sideways.
All hypnosis is self-hypnosis, they say.
Rapid induction though by pattern break
No, it's not Hypnosis. Hypnosis is intentional and influencing the state of consciousness. Meaning the coach would intentionally take influence on the consciousness of his students and in this state "program" them into a certain behavior. What's happening here is more classical conditioning. The students learn a pattern and at some point react immediately with the "correct" action once they recognize the pattern. Conditioning is something teachers/instructors have to be very aware of, because it's a really valuable tool. For example if a boxer slips his head once he sees a straight punch coming, that's also conditioning. But reacting to a technique with 0 resistance or even with assistance is really bad conditioning if your goal is to teach your students to fight. So what's happening here is basically a teacher who does not understand what he is teaching.
@@jc-kj8yc Hypnosis happens under varying circumstances.
One funny thing is a that 'no-touch' techniques exist in 'real combat' too. When a boxer feints in order to elicit a predictable reaction, that is a no-touch technique. You could _even_ argue that the boxer is as dependent upon the mental conditioning of his opponent as an aikidoka is, as a trained boxer is expected to react in certain ways that might not be so reliably predicted in a novice.
J. Kinda. But not quite the same. The difference is that feints draw a reaction from your opponent to either block or evade in some way. No touch techniques just seem to make the opponent react as if they have been hit.
Well the feint works cuz it's feinting a punch that can knock you unconscious. Sure it wouldn't work on a novice but the punch would.
I actually disagree that it wouldn't work on a novice. Trained fighters can absolutely condition absolute novices to respond certain ways during the course of a fight.
Feints are only one aspect of boxing its like a deceptive strike which is usually followed up by a real strike so the real strike is what will knock you out not the feint but to base a whole martial art on a feints would be useless and complitely ineffective.also im not an aikidoka but i can tell the moves aikido use were not meant to be feints but were meant to be the initial strike even tho they have been proven to be completely useless with a resisting opponent or in live sparring.
Thats apples and oranges. Nothing is accomplished without the follow up contact.
The only no touch thing that works, is firearm (or other similar device).
Throwing heavy objects like ashtrays or bottles is also very effective when it's unexpected.
@@anlumo1 throwing poo can also be very effective. The poo attack cab be very advantageous because you carry your ammo with you all the time. WAX ON!!!
Bam bam bam! Best technique
bigD: yeah, I recently saw a surveillance video on my FB feed where a women did that in an altercation. Let’s just say that it was far from being dignified.
@@anlumo1 haha! I'll bet she emerged soiled but victorious
1. I got worried when I read that title but I knew you wouldn't disappoint and 2. I definitely agree with this how no touch work except I seen it taking to the extreme which I am sure you have as well. People are jumping around and it is a poor demonstration of martial arts as a whole. We all would love to be able to fly through the air and do fireballs and stun people with our "chi". You prove with your wife that there is a science behind it and a psychological response to it which makes great sense.
The problem is that there is physiology behind effective Aikido as well, that Rokas has clearly not trained in. I've seen altogether too many flower children who train in Aikido the exact way he talks about in this video. The fact is, if you have the principles of physiological Aiki down, then training in Aikido can actually be effective--especially if combined with real sparring.
@@z8ph0d i don't know Aikido well enough to speak on that. I have seen both good and bad aikido. I will not discredit another but the fact that he questions what he does know he then begins mastering the system. I am sure Aikido requires some physiological training like all arts but what he is doing is demonstrating the techniques via a full fledge fight. The only time I have seen it work was in a video where the guy clearly has size ans ai believe the opponent was drunk. I am not hear to bash or discredit but to just come along the side of his journey. As for what he is saying about no touch we do see clear examples of people believing they are untouchable and that they can get this to work and then failing in real fights.
They did threw fireballs at government in Ukraine in 2014. Ever heard of famous Molotov technique? Makes your local dictator escape to Rostov. No touch.
I've always discouraged my classmates from reacting early, you give a great explanation as to why this happens
Very interesting. Your explanation made me think back to my youth, when I practiced a whole lot a capoeira, which is also a sort of cooperative "martial art". I use quotation marks because, considering capoeira's history, I do believe it was truly martial at some point, but it's now practiced for fun, fitness and cultural reasons. Anyway, in capoeira you are dancing with a partner or, according to other people within the community, playing a game with that partner, not necessarily competing with an opponent. Beginners tend to play that game at a distance for safety reasons, getting to the point of silliness: you duck under kicks that were nowhere close to your face as if your life depended on it, your block linear strikes that made no contact etc. As the practitioner advances they might pick up the habit of actually standing within striking distance of the partner and trusting the individual skill of each participant as a safety net, alongside the game/dance nature of the activity, but more often than not they have to be pushed into that "danger zone" by a teacher who is concerned with the preservation of capoeira as they learned it (or simply for aesthetic reasons, the game is more fun to watch and participate in when there's at least the illusion of danger there). This might lead some credence to your thought process, as Aikido and Capoeira spawned in different sides of the world, for different reasons, but similar behaviors were manifested.
P.S.: how many years of teaching do you have? You're very good at verbally breaking down your thought process and using demonstrations when necessary without going overboard on either. Makes your argument quite pleasant to follow.
P.P.S.: You're a beautiful couple. Make some babies.
My dragon breath and backhole wind technique do work every time. My ability to produce a deadly oder never failed me.
so you're a practitioner of virginutsu? there seems to be many of your colleagues around
Toilet humor, lovely.
Super interesting. Great explanation. This idea of "cooperative techniques and patterns" reminds me a lot of when I did capoeira - we did it as a kind of performance, where your response was dependent on what your opponent (Really, partner) did. Like, if someone did a rabo de arraia, you couldn't just jump on them and start throwing bows.
Dual-person katas exist in Karate & Kung-fu as well, each learns their own sequence & then when they do the form together they fit. But that's just the relic of pre-video way to transfer moves. It's not the main training (which is physical conditioning, practicing separate moves, and sparring, in that order)
This is something I have always stressed with my Jujitsu students in being careful not to fall into that patterns. I do believe you are "95%" right LOL, it was something my own head instructor and I talked about this evening at class and we came up with the same analysis and hypothesis.
This is Perhaps one of my favorite videos of yours. You respectfully break down what I think the underlying mechanism is. I really enjoyed seeing this perspective. Thank you
In yoshinkan aikido, at least with the dojo I train at, you’re encouraged to call out your partner if they fall for you. Only to their face though to avoid embarrassing them. The sensei also makes us redo the technique if we fall for them. We’re encouraged to receive the full brunt of the technique until the very moment where we cannot maintain balance and then we fall.
Back when I trained, I would occasionally deliberately stop a technique before the point of the throw, just so that uke would fall down and I could ask them where the heck they were going. Then I would stand them back up and tell them that ukemi means attacking me over and over and resisting my defense until they couldn't resist anymore--and only _then_ falling properly.
z8ph0d Yeah and that’s the way we should practice. Not to escape the technique early as uke. When they do fall before this point it makes the whole technique pointless, both for the uke and for the tori/shite. One partner doesn’t learn how to receive a strong technique at force and won’t learn how to resist such techniques later on by less experienced partners, the other won’t learn how to throw and will always need cooperation in order to do a technique.
That's interesting. I think even in jiu jitsu we can be susceptible to a kind of self delusion because we grow accustomed to how how opponent 'should' react which is often the way the instructor has taught them to react. Which is fine unless you assume that someone without training will react the same way.
I assumed all no touch techniques were purely gimmics...thanks for showing that in some cases it might actually be a psychological phenomenon related to how we learn behavior subconsciously.
Funny you bring this topic up, because Rener Gracie talked about this(practitioners fall into a rhythm of sort), so in class they sometimes drill Jiujitsu in a way where a person just acts crazy unpredictable (like someone on the street) and try to adapt the jiujitsu to that. It was a real good video, If I remembered which video it was I would have linked it.
Yes, great explanation. I also think that a similar thing is happening in self defense and Krav Maga with groin strikes. Are you really sure the person is going to respond by curling up in a ball of pain outside of the training simulation? I've received hundreds of (accidental) groin strikes in training over the years, and all except one of them didn't hit correctly at all.
Good point
Hundreds of groin strikes? You should train more carefully brother!
Same goes for eye gouging and ear strikes. Ear and groin strikes in particular are just so "hard" (in not easier than regular punching) to execute in placement and power, that head or liver would yield equal results. Additionally it is just hard to estimate how much force you really need to apply, when doing this, since you cant spar this. I mean learning punching/kicking as a beginner your told to punch/kick through the target because often people think they hit the surface and thats it, but you wont hit hard enough if you just touch the surface. But in training groin strikes your partner just curls up but in reality you pretty much applied 0 force. And then theres the obvious flaw in thinking someone got me in a bad position and he will immediatly let go when i execute my groin strike instead of retaliating by using his stronger position.
Youre missing my point, sure, these attacks can be brutal, IF you oppenent is in the worse position and you have full control over him. How is that usefull in a self defense situation, when for all purposes you assume you are in a equal/worse position and your opponent is bigger and stronger than you. These things are often taught in a sense of, you just strike with ur hand on the eyes and he will let go (instead of crunching your neck), you just hammerfist to the groin and he will curl up (instead of punching your face in), you just clap your hand together and burst his eardrums (instead of him just moving his head and punching your face in). Can you do serious damage when you have your opponent in mount and can grab his head and gouge his eyes? Sure, or when you can come close enough and unleash a full force punch to the groin without need to worry about a counter or him dodging? Sure, are these self defense scenario? Not really. And while there may be schools who teach legitimate groin strikes etc., it is just something you can never really spar and therefore never experience a sense of counterplay and flexibility in applying. But aquiring a certain sense of range, position and response in sparing can be quite advantageous for self defense.
Well in krav maga you are also taught to explode and not rely on one punch, never in a training did my instructor treat groin attacks as a magic wand, but in a survival situation u just do everything u can.
That chick knew aikido was bs for years. Guaranteed.
Yup. She was just polite and did not want to hurt his feelings "of course honey you are mystical ascended warrior. Now go to bed"
Jakub Mike, that is actually the truth :D
@@MartialArtsJourney no offense mate. I'd really like to talk to ya and know how you got so far into aikido. Or things like the lack of sparring. Does no one EVER resist? These black belts that were assholes to you early in your career did you ever challenge them to do any of the bs on you when your resisting? Just curious. Good vids glad you followed the truth. The truth is what to strive for. Bjj is only great cuz it's teachings are closer to reality than other martial arts but it's not the style but effectiveness that counts.
Martial Arts Journey I really like your journey (pun inteded) so much. You are open for new things and willing to fail! Thats a great virtue and many people, that preach humbleness actually lack it themself.
Its not easy to admit to yourself, that you have been wrong, yet everybody is wrong sometimes. Admitting to yourself, that you have been wrong for years is even more difficult. Please keep that!
To be fair though, BJJ has a lot of the same debates about effectiveness of techniques. How many times have you heard something like: "Berimbolo/Half guard/heel hooks/DLR wouldn't work in a REAL fight!"?
While this explanation is probably correct for arts like Aikido which rely heavily during training on cooperative partners, the real method of "no touch" simply relies on an untrained fighter's over-commitment to his attack coupled with a body movement deception pattern. This is likely what the various ninjutsu methods rely on. The defender induces the attacker by deception to over-commit, then follows up with another body movement deception which results in the attacker completely out of balance and vulnerable. Ninjutsu relies heavily on body movement. In fact, one could say proper martial arts depends on the Doctor Who acronym "TARDIS" - Time And Relative Distance In Space.
In a similar way, you have Bruce Lee's "Intercepting Fist" methods where as soon as the attacker begins his movement, Lee would respond in such a manner as to "check" the attacker. You see this in action in the famous demo video where when Lee's opponent would start a move, Lee would fake a kick and the opponent reacts by stopping his attack. This depends to a certain degree on the opponent "telegraphing" his attack via movement of the hips or shoulders. A well-trained attacker minimizes this telegraphing movement on the part of the body. Thus, body deception plays a role here, as well.
So the "The skeptic was a complete non believer. Didn't believe it." explanation was actually true.
Obviously why it didn't work on the skeptic, but also why it did work on the students.
I notice that when these kinds of techniques are demonstrated, they are almost always against high ranking students or other teachers/masters. It seems to emphasize the rapport needed when showing off these moves. If beginner students were to be used, they aren't yet clued in physically or mentally to the correct response. It reminds me of the interplay that professional wrestlers have during a match. Although in that case, it is definitely done consciously by both participants.
Attackers during practice of techniques who feign compliance are not honest in giving the required practice experience, and the person practicing should not allow that to happen by speeding up their technique execution. The sensei should ensure this doesn't happen, ever!
The problem is that you need this compliance at first to perfect your technique, before you can train against a resisting opponent. Even boxers do that, you can't learn boxing by going into the ring with Mike Tyson, you'll just get stomped (even considering his age now). The first enemy my boxing trainer ever let me fight against was just my own shadow.
The tricky part is to know when to start asking the training partners to be noncompliant. Apparently, some schools forgot about that part.
@@anlumo1 Agree simewhat, but at first ends when? Feedback is also very important, so if the technique isn't correct, then everyone's time is wasted and the student is getting negative training.
A good teacher should be able to tell whether the technique is correct, even when the partner is compliant. I think that this should end when the student is able to handle a noncompliant partner without failing horribly.
Excellent explanation, I practised and taught taichi (similar art) for many years. I can remember being in awe of my instructor's skill, I saw him as almost magical at times (I began training at age 12). He would often subtly describe what our responses would be before he demonstrated a new technique. "he's going to step forward and punch me, now watch as I redirect his energy which will result in him falling over".. And on que the pupil would fall.
I totally agree that a lot of the responses are conditioned thru repetition. However, I think suggestion also plays a large part (just like how some church pastors have people falling down when they command it too)
Interesting explanation. Coming from a Tai Chi background I witnessed and experienced this 'no touch' techniques. it worked until I questioned it and researched it. Basically it comes down to a form of hypnosis. The master is often unaware that he is conducting the necessary stimulus for suggestion and the students are not aware they have been subjected to the stimulus and reacted pretty much as you have said. This is then re-enforced and a belief system runs through the school and it becomes a kind of circular belief as new students are introduced into the mind set of their peers. This no touch then fails outside of the belief system. If you study some youtube videos on how hypnosis works you will quickly see how the 'master' wittingly or unwittingly sets this up.
In other words. No touch is BS.
Great explaination. One reason I think the no touch cooperate movement style evolved into aikido is because of the sword fighting history. Imagine doing those movements you demonstrated with a katana in your hand, in case you don't move with your opponent, your head is cut off. But you are absolutely right that this isn't a proper self defense strategy in the street against a boxer or mma-kind of fighter. Btw, that is also why aikido is so oriented on trying to grab the opponents hand. The Uke tries to prevent the tori to draw or use a sword or knife.
First time I've seen no touch techniques explained this way. Most people would sum it up to some sort of stage hypnosis, but I think your explanation captures better what thought and body process that happens, and in such a way as to not trivialize how partners learn to respond in these ways. That said, there are the kinds of no touch martial arts that're way too exaggerated and that's where the stage hypnosis theory can probably come in.
On my end, this is probably also a very good way to explain how skill in pro-wrestling works. There are plenty of basic movements in pro-wrestling that signal to the opponent on how they should react and cooperate to pull off the move. At the same time, signature moves that can be unique to a only a few wrestlers require an even deeper level of cooperative skill and understanding to be able to react correctly to a less familiar motion. Believe it or not, simulated cooperative fighting is not easy to learn. And when the you take this kind of cooperative interaction and make it entirely self-aware, you get pro-wrestling, where the performers become willing to push the moves to look and be more spectacular, and also potentially injurious. In many cases, this kind of skilled performance presents far more risk of injury than plenty of legitimate combat sports.
I see what you're getting at here. I think a much simpler and proven no-touch technique would be a faint. I think the main idea that you presented here can be applied really well to most martial arts: your opponent will only react if they perceive a threat. I think that's what I like the most about martial arts, there are usually some central principles that you can carry over from one to the other.
Following this thought, to make a feint, you need to fake a move the other person is very familiar with. This is easy when you're up against someone trained similarly to you, but much harder in other situations (like a street fight, where you don't know what the other person has trained). That's a very interesting connection there.
Well, everyone is familiar with getting hit in the face. You could feint a punch at anyone, and their natural reaction will be to jerk away or curl up. It even works on animals. If I prevent to poke my cats in the eyes, they will jerk their heads away and squint.
Yes, but if you can feint that, you might just as well go gold and actually hit the target.
If you feint a punch to someone's face, they're going to (instinctively) raise their hands to guard against the hit. If you "go gold and actually hit", you *WON'T* be hitting your *TARGET* because they got their guard up. You'll be hitting their guard. If you're lucky, that's all, but because you went with the punch, you are going to necessarily be slower on the gut punch following it, so they'll block that one too. Feint a punch to the face, then punch low while they block high, and you hit while their guard is *OUT* of position instead.
By feinting, you're not putting your full attacking weight behind the feint, and you can throw a *proper* hit into the exposed target you created. By not feinting, you necessarily delay the follow-up while performing the first attack all the way.
I agree that this is how it started! Aikido is more like a martial dance. You are learning a pattern like dance moves. It's very beautiful. Maybe not that effective in a real fight but it has a nice aesthestic. Being a dance doesn't mean it is entirely useless. Professional, male ballet dancers have flexible legs that are so strong from lifts and jumps that they could probably kick most people into submission.
Probably my favourite of your video.
I hate when people go to ground by themself. I can't learn the right move
This works in wrestling too. One of my teamates uses a lot of “no touch” techniques. He’ll wrestle in a very particular way and when his opponent becomes used to it, he either switches or stops the pattern. People fall because he goes against conventional Wrestling positions and does not follow through. You would be surprised at the level of unnoticed mutual cooperation that happens in combat sports. For no touch to work, your side of the cooperation needs to be broken. That requires a lot of awareness, and a certain level of fitness to be able to “break away”
Hadouken for the win. Just use it from mid distance. If you start it too far enemy will just jump over them while if you are too close you open yourself for counter.
Was any "no touch technique" ever taught to you?
We need you in the tai chi world my friend. Your journey and your honesty are constant inspirations. Love this clip - will show it to as many people as I can.
I'm a security guard. part of our job is dealing with violent people without touching them. I regularly use a great no touch technique all the time (which I got from Aikido). when I'm asking someone to leave the premises and they come to get in my face. i quickly put my hand up to there face (kind of like a jab) but this always stops them in there tracks. but I always have some other techniques to fall back on if needed. (Standing BJJ techniques, Jujitsu, Aikido etc) but under no circumstances am I allowed to strike anyone, and I'm only allowed to touch someone if they attack me. some of the people I deal with are teenagers so I could get charged with assaulting a child! (I live in New Zealand)
I'm terrible at patterns, and this provides a very sound reason why every Aikido instructor I've ever had would get so frustrated with me :) I also think any form where there's a high degree of emphasis placed on katas has an equivalent opportunity for vulnerability.
Personally I believe that a lot of no touch in Aikido had been developed from the compliance aspect of the art form. I was taught that receiving the technique was more important then the technique itself. Since Aikido is a sword art when you’re receiving a technique you’re essentially learning how to avoid and survive a sword cut. Also where each sword strike is while performing movements while empty handed is also an atemi. That technique is usually used for warmups and back stretches where I train. However, in application that would be a draw in and an elbow to the face of the person resisting the technique. I think a lot of Aikidoka tend to forget or may not know where the teeth in the techniques are because it isn’t practiced or explained. I believe you’re absolutely right in practicing this way can lead to a false sense of security in your techniques. What has helped me to remember where the teeth in the techniques are is to look at the daito-ryu-aikijujutsu versions of the same techniques. Especially since that’s where O’sensis art originated along with other art forms.
Perhaps 'no touch technique' is a misnomer. Maybe we should call it 'no touch ukemi' instead. It's the uke that senses the potential hit and chooses to 'save himself/herself' by falling in a way that the naga misses completely. In Aikido training, we stop there. There is no winner no loser. In Aikido training. we spend a lot of time and effort learning how to take ukemi.
In a "real" fight setting, several different scenarios may happen:
1. The uke senses the potential effect of the technique and chooses to "fall down" (no-touch) and then counters by, for example, sweeping the nage's legs instead. The nage had better be ready for that. We don't do that in Aikido training.
2. The uke senses the technique but chooses not to fall down and does something else in response instead. In this case, the nage's technique had better work. The nage should be able to finish the technique. If not, more training is needed.
3. The uke does not sense the technique, does not know how to respond (or responds awkwardly), and takes the hit. In this case, the nage's technique had better work.
Just my two cents. May abundant peace be with everybody here always! Domo.
The people who use "no touch" techniques like this and believe it think that the attacker is *causing* a response, not the defender *choosing* how to respond. That's a critical flaw in their thinking - and it's shown in the other video on this topic which addresses an example. A teacher who comments that it seems to be taking less energy from him to do the same techniques on his students, and instead of questioning "are they complying?" he's leaping to "my energy must be getting so much stronger now". It's a break from critical thought that's leading the teacher down such a road.
2b. Sometimes the technique just doesn't work against a certain counter no matter how good you are. The nage should know and do something else in that case to not fail terribly. Repeat this combination and tweak new responses until a new pair of techniques is developed. Aikido does not do that.
(Kodokan judo, Danzan-Ryu jujutsu and BJJ did this, not sure if they're still doing in most forms. MMA definitely is structured like this. Less historical fencing arts do it, as did historical ones in the past. Enshin and Ashihara karate I think actively do it now, but I'm not sure. Wado-ryu definitely did and likely still does sometimes. A few combatives try that but they tend to be focused on few simple and effective things for short training instead. Many good self defence systems figure out modern techniques like this.)
Very interesting synopsis. I tend to agree. I've always wondered how some people can be conditioned to accept this no-touch stuff. Great job and thanks for the food for thought.
I saw an interview with a high Dan Aikido teacher who trained under O Sensei near the end of his life. He (not talking about no touch techniques) said that there was a lot of pressure being Uke to O Sensei, and it would have been extremely embarrassing and shameful to not receive the technique correctly. This is what I believe is happening in the videos of O Sensei in later life when he's barely doing anything, the Uke's are just doing their best to make sure they receive each technique the way they're expected to.
it says everything when a technique needs to be modified if your opponent doesn't believe in it...
I'm a bit late to the discussion, but I would like to add a point. What you're describing here is basically classical conditioning gone terribly wrong. That happens if teachers don't understand what they are teaching and don't interrupt once they see students pick up undesired patterns. And you see this in pretty much all martial arts that don't pressure test, because pressure testing immediately shows bad behavior. This doesn't just end up in no touch techniques, but in a whole bunch of different patterns that don't wirk in fights. The overlong flowing drills in Wing Tsun for example are exactly that. Students realize how to react to a certain technique, counter it and follow with the same technique, the other guy mirrors it and boom, you got two people playing a clapping game instead of practicing what this originally was supposed to be, namely a block, a check and a counter. The "problem" is: clapping games are fun! Aikido flowing drills are fun! It's energetic, it's cooperative and it takes skill to do it at a high pace and with high intensity. So you can spend years at getting really good at fun cooperative movements. And this can get passed down over generations, if the students become teachers and teach the same thing. After a few years nobody remembers, what the technique originally was supposed to be. And all that started with one teacher getting caught up in the fun and forgetting to teach the correct conditioning. But that's why I dislike the notion that martial arts like Aikido or Wing Tsun don't work. They do. You just need to dig through decades of garbage instructions to get to the good stuff by reconstructing the techniques that are taught and by understanding how they originally were probably supposed to work. The takedown you showed here for example, the actual takedown, not the no touch crap, does work. It just needs to be practiced differently. So, if you practice a martial art and do fun cooperative exercises all the time without really understanding how to make them work and you want to learn how to fight, switch the gym. If you do it, because you just like to get really good at complicated cooperative movements, switch the sport and start dancing. If you enjoy to get good at these exact patterns and it makes you happy, keep doing it. You just need to realize that what you're doing there is derived from bad conditioning.
I used to train several different traditional styles (Wado Ryu karate, and Bujinkan Taijutsu). Now a days I do no gi BJJ and wrestling, but even during live rolls, the person I’m rolling with will use a technique or bait in a weird way but my old training from the traditional martial arts will kick in and I always fall for it instead reacting against the technique like we’re taught to do in BJJ. I’d say the hypnosis part is still there with me to this day and that’s actually one thing I want to add that’s done differently. In TMA were taught to react to techniques by just letting it happen. It’s all submissive and I think that alone can create a pattern no resistance, no touch scenarios like you’re saying. In modern martial arts you’re still training to react but instead of being submissive and that’s the end of the technique, it continues into a counter where that builds a more resistant character in training. So I would say both traditional and modern use this method of “hypnosis” in training (all for different reasons and purposes of course). I still find evidence of this with people who don’t train at all. Instead they don’t have a reaction because they haven’t done martial arts at all. You can see that same example here with your video. Anyways, keep up the good work and research. You’re doing awesome
So "No Touch" Takedown is The Result of Learning an Attach Motion and How to Percieve the Attack Before it makes Contact, and such Awareness thereby allows the Target to Avoid the Strike, Right? It think it should be called "Ghost or Phantom Blocking" because if done Correctly, No One should ever be able to Touch You!!! 😇
Your Chanel is fantastic.
Thank you Julia!
Makes a lot of sense and my rational mind has to agree.
What’s interesting is when sensei Tohei interpreted O sensei techniques he used the zen term body follows mind. The idea that a tenchinage for example can divert the mind downwards and then suddenly upwards and the body is unstable thus dropping the opponent easily hardly touching the attacker .I think there’s something in that theory but would only work with someone not experienced in combat and just lashing out with anger .
That's not how no-touch techniques worked at my aikido school. No touch only happened when touching would cause some kind of uncomfortable contact, like someone straight up grabbing someone's face, for example. It was often like getting clothes-lined without having to actually get hit.
My aikido instructor told me I had to “move right” when attacking! She was right of course, and that was the problem!!
As I studied from the stories of O'Sensei and other Ushi-deshi of O'Sensei, the no touch techniques are true, but it is not what most of people think. In Aikido, there are always Uke vs Tori. Aikido techniques are not only to train the Tori, but for the Uke, too. The no touch techniques are that kind of techniques. You are right about the Uke's reacts with Tori's movements. But that is only one side of the coin. In this situation, no touch techniques are mostly for the Uke, to help them develop their flexibility, their sense of the counters, their open points of their bodies when they attack other people. The Tori at this point, only gives Uke a signal about where his weak point is, and the Uke has to response to it by rolling, falling, or stuff like that, to avoid being hit. When we do Aikido, people thought only the Tori can train with the techniques, Uke only their for help. It is big mistake. Both can be trained. Tori is trained to harmonize, and Uke is trained to not receive the damage. Example, you might laugh if you see an Uke falling down quickly (actually, he steps forward and drops his center), when Tori raise his hand to him. But imagine this, what if the Tori has a sword, and he draws it so quick and the Uke didn't see it before. What will he do? Keep go forward and punch the Tori? No, safety first. Better falling down, than getting cut, right? That's why you see he falling himself on the floor.
A good way to test any no touch and reactions outcome is to always make it random. The receiver shall NEVER know what is coming and the challenge is to keep calm when random threats or attacks are around you. The brain response to potential and real threats but if an individual has trained their brain to keep calm and almost not react when punches or hands comes flying near their face they either need a much more sudden, stronger and explosive movement or a completely unrecognizable type of movement to hide within to actually have a chance to be able to surprise their brain. In other words it has to be NEW and Unknown for the receiver what is going on EVERY time to work. You cant surprise a brain if they know what is coming so unpredictability is key.
It is really The art of deception/acting or How to avoid or take advantage of getting read in a fight/conflict/conversation in body language, tone, timing and verbal patterns. How good are you at hiding or lure your attentions to trick your opponent into a trap. A trap/technique can work perfectly every time in practice through non-resisting repetitions but if you cant learn or figure out how trick/lure a real prey into the trap perfectly, it just becomes a waste of time and remain a theory and not an execution when needed.
The Mma feint is a similar trap and it works bc the TIMING element is RANDOM. Even when the entire technique is SO obvious as it is. It's easily recognizable that puts up your guard with correct range and readiness for it but can end up failing bc of the wrong TIMING. Timing is still the risker and the trickster to watch out for and you may have seen the outcome of whoever falls for it :D. Unpredictable deception + timing and awareness get the job done. Techniques are tools like a compass to then explore and combine into this and it comes down to how the fighter uses the tools.
Just because you have all the right tools in the kitchen does not guarantee that you are great at cooking fx.
The problem with people saying this or that technique "works" or "does not work" is that there is no scientific evidence provided. No fight is identical to another. Without repetition and experiment, no one can say whether a move will work or not in any given fight. A move may work perfectly in one fight, but fail 9 out of 10 or 99 times out of 100. No one knows because no one has ever tested that scientifically with adequate control of the possible variables. Add in the thousands of possible moves in fights between humans, and the discussion becomes ridiculous.
The problem with martial arts is that it is an unscientific enumeration of all the ways two human bodies can interact with the intent of doing harming. Being both unscientific and an enumeration, it is almost worthless for self-defense. In self-defense, as in any conflict, strategy and tactics play a much higher level role than whether one can shoot or punch or kick or throw or stab, even if the fight ultimately depends on those low level techniques. The problem is which techniques will actually work in any given fight. And neither martial arts nor self-defense can really tell you that. Only strategy and tactics can.
Any one who says he's been in enough fights to tell you which techniques will "always" work or "never" work" is probably lying. That is what is called "anecdotal", i.e., worthless, evidence in science. The conundrum from a security perspective is that's all we have to go on, since there has never been any science involved in self-defense or martial arts, despite all the people talking about the "science" in those areas.
Great video and I agree with the analysis and people's comments. The video shows bad examples, yet there there can be a valid reason for your partner taking a fall to avoid being hit. Let me give you an example:
If i was practicing a similar technique to one shown in the video but applied with much more intent or aggression (sokumen iriminage) a back fist followed by a body check. I would want to throw the back fist so that it's fast and goes through where my partner's head is. If I hit them, I'm going to damage them. If I deliberately miss, it will have no effect on their balance/body positioning. My partner can practice suddenly moving his head back to avoid the back fist. It's possible because they know I'm going to throw it. There tends to be 4 outcomes: 1) they move their head back so fast they fall over 2) they move their head back, avoid the back fist and don't fall over, then I apply the body check and as they are off balance they also fall 3) They anticipate and use a block, generally it's a late block and they end up off balance and get thrown by the body check 4) they don't react quickly enough and get hit !!
Wow... The comments really did get deleted.
I will try to drop new comments on each video in the catalog. Gives me an excuse to rewatch everything, and hopefully helps your channel overcoming hurdles in the algorithm.
Best of luck, Rokas. We'll try to help you get these comment sections filled again.
Hi. I've watched a few of your videos, and i have to say it's always nice to see someone opening their mind, questioning dogmas, and learning new things. Which is why i decided to comment as well, since i thought you might be interested in a different perspective.
I can say from pesonal experience that the ability to affect another person's body without physical contact does exist. I've encountered it in my practice of Chi Kung and Internal Wing Chun. I've seen one of my masters push someone (VERY slightly) without touch. I've felt it done to me. I was taught how it works and tried it myself on others.
I've observed it work on students, and on strangers. On believers, and non believers. No patterns. No conditioning. We're all western sceptics, so in the group where i was taught this thing we experimented on each other in various ways to make sure we're not imagening or accidentally faking it :).
The effects of this are very light, and nothing like what you would see in a typical "No Touch Technique" UA-cam video. At most, i've seen a person take a small step back from the pressure of the push. So in order to use something like that as a self defence tool you would probably have to be at an extreme level of mastery... And even then you probably wouldn't use it to push people around, but rather to augment your physical attacks, and maybe slightly redirect them to more vulnerable parts inside the body. So i would definately NOT recommend to focus on something like that as a "technique" for self defence...
The main use i've seen for this ability to affect people with no touch was a type of Chi Kung Therapy that's called in China "External Chi Kung". Which is basically feeling a person's body from the inside to detect internal pressures and tentions and then doing a sort of "No Contact Massage" to relieve them. That's also the main use i was taught in my practice.
Anyway, that's my personal experience, and i don't expect anyone to believe it if they didn't have a similar experience themselves. That's not to say that your explenation is not valid or does not apply to at least some, and perhaps even most examples of "No Touch Masters". And of course i absolutely cannot speak on how any of what i said relates to Aikido, and the use of "no touch" stuff in that system...
Hope this was at least an interesting read, and i wish you luck on your journey!
Hello there.
I looked at many of your video as I too practice aîkido (for a bit more than a decade) and started to question myself about the technics, and their origins, and purpose. I've also been teaching aikido in the last 4 years. It made me understand i hope, how to make my aikido a bit better.
When i listen to your comments, and also read most anti-aikido comments, i think there are something that people doesn't get (even in aikidokas). Aikido as it is trained is obviously consensual. It's an martial arts which is based on many locks which would be very dangerous if it was trained a "self defense" way. And obviously aikido techniques shouldn't be forced. However nothing prevents aikido from learning striking and even more, using strikes. The purpose of aikido (and other similar arts) is to react to whatever the oppement gives you, trying to transform a deviated strike into an armlock for exemple. So to be really "effective", aikido techniques would mainly comes after strikes. In order to get that parts which is not present in the aikido courses i get from my teachers, i started wingchun (you can look at Didier Beddar videos which is the sifu of my teacher). Again a bullshido for many, yet something that can go with aikido as it works on deviating attacks.
In my opinion, the probleme with the way we learn it is that you mostly have one known attack => one techniques. Like katate dori / ikkyo. So uke has to play a role where he gives something to tori. It's some kind of faked harmony where uke force himself and try to forget he knows what will happen. Aikido learning should have more moments where you can do any technic according to what you feel uke is giving you.
In the "no touch techniques" you're talking in this video there might be something true, and also some things missing.
1 - Aikido is trained by repetition. You learn to react to techniques so that you can protect your integrity (avoid hand in head for exemple). But most martial arts are learned the same way. You make movements instinctives so you can improve your speed by limitating the need of thinking.
2 - In your demonstration, you show that you wait for your wife to grab you. It's the base training level when new people starts aikido. Then you show a second level where you stop waiting to be touched to start the techniques. I think you forgot to show the third level where you provokes the grabbing. That's third level is somewhat quite difficult to master as you have to make the partnair grabs you, and not block yourself once you get the information.
3 - Still in the demonstration, we can see your wife isn't giving really into it. What i mean is that as she just wants to grab your hand. So once she fails to get it (or not), she doesn't move, or doesn't give you direction. It's somewhat normal especially for someone who doesn't practice as she doesn't get the purpose of grabbing your hand. Perhaps having an explanation could help. As a classic use case, you may want to take the hand and get a way to control it while you strike with the other. Meaning you would have to give more intention in the grab, and close the distance to strike with other hand. That make technique more logical. Again it would be "consensual" but nothing prevents you to go harder and even try to push the grab while really punching.
So even though many might think aikido is not effective, i do think it can be. It would requires to change the way it is teached. Mixing the repetition training and some "sparring" where the partnairs really have to feel what he receive and what techniques are possibles. Of course, it would be much harder than just striking and blocking but it's achievable. And it would require intensive training because of the technicity to learn how to feel and redirect in a very second.
Appart from that, i saw your sparring against MMA fighter and i think there are a few things that might make it unintentionnaly faked. What i mean is you use aikido playing with the MMA rules.
- there are protection on hands which prevents effective grabbings and techniques.
- the sparrer is in its natural training environment (a ring) while you are not used to it.
- the ring in itself makes it easy for him to corner you if he wants. He doesn't have to really put his balance to try to get to you. Just closing distance walking to you. In that situation it would be very hard to get a technique unless you manage to create a reaction. But again, you are playing according his rules and you are not a striker.
- you are the one moving to him so he can just walk back while countering. No way you can do a technique that way
No personal critics here as what is written would be the very same reason why i couldn't do better unless training striking until i'm used to it.
for me , it s not no touch , it s hypnotize technique ...
students , with repetition , become hypnotized and belive than the master have power ( and for shure master belive it to )
wow, this is so wierd. i enjoy learning about different martial arts, but i really like that your not a jackass. you honestly talk about aikido and give me some good info about it. so thanks a lot!
Really great analysis! It's like a trained response in the same manner people train dogs with clickers.
Good video!
I think you are correct. I think overtime the teacher and student develop a combination of rhythmic synchronization, power of suggestion and hypnosis. So to some extent the no touch technique is 100% real to the student because of the mindset and mental process that develops between the student and teacher. Once one student believes it is real the power of suggestion will start to multiply quickly because many people want it to be real. Almost like mass hysteria.
I always thought the “no touch” of a no- touch technique was just a trick of the eye. That, especially in Aikido, the master moved so quickly and precisely to throw his or her opponent that it looked like no contact was made. Sort of like how, say, a quarterback can fake handing off the football or how you need the sound to know that the batter has hit a pitched baseball.
My no-touch technique works every time. Whenever someone is hostile I just say in a strong Russian accent "so, yoo sink yoo arh tahf?" and they like "sh1t, lets just go". Never had to fight anyone yet.
Why Aikido trainer think, the opponent will attack with same arm and same step ahead? I mean right foot ahead, right punch comes. Most people don't do this right?
There is a rationale for this in Aikido in that the hand is supposed to be a placeholder for a bladed weapon (te-gatana), so uke are training to avoid the blade before it touches them. The misunderstanding is in thinking Aikido is an unarmed martial art, instead of a weapons art that trains empty-handed. Of course it doesn't "work" if shite doesn't actually hold a knife and uke doesn't want to pretend there is one, and - in the demonstrated technique - shite doesn't substitute with a backfist to the face.
My phrase for this has always been “over compliance”
I'm so glad my aikido teachers never did this kinda stuff in class
I personally believe that the students that believe about this "no touch" are just so open minded at the beginning and then they see their master full of confidence and they tend to actually believe it and they feel pain when they receive the "strikes" because they believe it 100%. I used to do theater exercises and we had some staff like dancing or fighting with no touch, to do this staff you need to convince yourself that it is real so when my partner throws me a "strike" I will feel it. Trust me if you manage to convince yourself that it is real for you it is 100% real, I could feel when someone would do light or heavy "strikes". Of course after the exercise and the whole "prova" was over we would stop believe that because we would become our real selves again. But that's what I think that it is done, if you notice the students are mostly 20 years old maximum, in this age they tend to believe almost everything without questioning anything and they are also too submissive to everything so when they see it, they believe it and then the "master" throws a "confidence strike" and the student actually feels it because he sees and feels from the teacher that it actually works, even if it doesn't.
2:48 That's a pretty good position for a nasty elbow or an elbow lock. The issue is I wouldn't see someone trying to grab my hand that way. And if they did, I wouldn't see it as a threat so as to go for an elbow or defend myself. It works in the Aikido frame, but you can learn from it as using the intentions of an opponent to counter him.
Great explanation. I have never believed in the no touch stuff but now I can see why master and student believe it works.
This happens in taijiquan some times. It is sad when people start thinking it works. This is why non compliant practice is so vital.
By the way, the first pattern you are using is one application of single whip in taiji.
I totally agree with your theory. I also have an additional theory that completes yours. I happened to meet some master who was showing me techniques. I was skeptical about the efficiency of the technique, but I was too afraid to be rude, disrespectful or to hurt him (to counter his attack I needed to go full speed and I wasn’t sure I could stop my hits properly to not hurt him), so in the end I just went along and got defeated by his questionable technique.
Mr. Jukka Lampila was on radio, and it sounded like his way of explaining it was using a suggestion to make your partner cooperative.
No touch techniques = result of Pavlovian training. People get told off in judo as an uke for making it too easy. Such rehearsal with such an outcome is closer to a successful drama class than martial arts.
Apparently people in Aikido classes are also supposed to reprimand their partner if they go too easy. It is almost as if bad teaching is the problem, not the name of the art.. The origins were with realistic warfare so if you think some martial art doesn't work then maybe you have not seen the real version.
Aikido is a "modern" martial art that didn't originate in warfare. It's actually an *intentionally* non-combative philosophy. That philosophy makes bad teaching, while still bad teaching, more understandable when and if it happens. For traditional martial arts, though, there is a *BIG* difference between how many modern practices have evolved, and how the art was used in real combat.
I also think that no touch techniques are a form of psychological phenomenon. It can work if an "attacker" or in this case the training partner is in sync with the defender. I do practice martial arts (aiki jutsu / ju jutsu) for about 10 years now and for learning how a technique works it is sometimes effective that the uke / tori plays his or her part in the attack and defense pattern. It is like a dance, the movements are ingrained in the muscle memory and you eventually learn how to perform the said technique on this exact same attack pattern with body and mind. I think that this playing with the technique is also a way to learn if done right.
But this also can be counter productive and lead to false "truths". Many martial arts practitioners train with body and mind but are in fact mindlessly absorbing patterns of movement. As I said, I do train for several years now and I realized that I am not a fighter. I practice a sport that is good for my health and is fun, I like the cooperative aspects of learning and moving in aiki jutsu. But I am well aware that some of the learned techniques are not applicable in a real fight.
My sensei has this habit of now and then letting us fight in a randori situation (also with weapons at dan levels). He does not use this as training per se, but as a means to show that the techniques are hard to pull of in a real fight. He teaches us that each technique has its pros and cons. I am thankful to him that he does expect us to stay skeptical and develop our own "do".
Itd be fun to test your aikido with medieval weapons. Try having someone swing a sword at you like they were trying to chop you up to pieces and see if your techniques work.
(Not a real sword obviously)
Aikido has a lot of techniques with a sword, and they work fine:
watch?v=cFGPCTMp2cw
TBH, I don't know if the guy with the bokken is an Aikidoka, but literally everything he is going has been shown to me during Aikido classes.
I admire your work sir. Consider listening to the audiobook The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle. He mentions how certain people actually “vibrate at certain frequencies” that seem to attract other people who are like minded... Which is why successful people gravitate to other successful people, as well as violent people tend to hang around other violent people...Having the ability to defend yourself should give you true confidence which will then make you “vibrate” at a higher frequency so to speak, and you will then avoid conflict altogether! God bless you and yours sir, and keep up the great content/journey!
Doesn’t matter if works or not. Aikido isn’t meant for the street. Like tai chi (NOT Chen) it’s more spiritual exercise and it’s just what they do in dojo. That said, it’s emphasis right away on body mechanics is what makes their jo, bo, bokken/sword techniques useful out there. That pool cue at the bar turns the tables right around in the aikidoist favor once the common stick (pool cue) is employed by them.
Know thy self then know thy art. So the no touch technique. Building program. Square off with someone else. Have them push on your body slowly. And allow their force deform your structure. When the reach the end of their press they remove the force and you reset. Stay off the midline. When you are starting to get used to it. Apply more speed and force gradually. Lets call this building a stimulus response conversation. Eventually your body will start deforming to match the force. Learn how to apply light force to manipulate their structure, moving or timing. Now build your posture in a way that invites a particular attack. When it comes deform the structure and move out of the way. Voila a no touch technique conversation. The influence is the key. Build the defense. Hide vulnerability present, remove. The goal is to draw out the committed attack.
And this, dear friends, is a pretty accurate explanation of subconscious conditionning. Very interesting video!
As other people have said, yes your right. To an extent. No touch techniques won't work against someone that doesn't know the technique to begin with.
But the trick is to take advantage of people who do.
Of course, there aren't many of them, so it's of questionable value in the 'real world'.
I'm am old man. 44. I started martial arts training though when I was about 16. ( Lots of breaks, I'm not great) but egg been back them there was a big thing about training full contact, semi contact our no contact.
If you want to train in a way that will let you win fights, you have to train full contact.
If you want to train for the joy of learning... It doesn't matter what martial art you do. If you don't train full contact, you will be beaten in a fight.
It doesn't matter what martial art you learn.
Full contact win. Touch, lose.
I train in Aikido because it's fun and I meet nice people doing it. Sorry if that's not enough for you. You probably should do bbj. Not because it's all this, or all that. It just sounds like you are in a different place in your life now.
Xx
We see "no touch" techniques all the time. It's called movies. I have to use fancy language, it's called "suspension of disbelief".
The only way I could imagine it to work on the street is that the attacker is out of balance and tries to avoid a common follow up strike, but loses balance completely... Still, in practice that strike should down him anyway...
I think this is a good explanation, but I also think that there is a lot more going on that would be really difficult to explain to someone who hasn't done it.
We used to talk in my martial art about hijacking the intention, for example, so that if a punch (or whatever) was coming with really full intention then, by moving subtly the focus can be shifted and the mind can be tricked.
In the above (mentally hijacking) example then it works better the more committed the persona is and (IMO) work a little bit in reality; but we would also talk about having 'safety nets' so that, for example, the technique didn't work and punch kept going through, we still wouldn't be there.
The techniques were primarily used to either get some to completely over commit, or to unbalance someone enough to knock them over easily, not usually as a full technique.
I think this method "if as you explained" it would have been a great way a long time ago for students and teachers of the art to practice in public while keeping the art a secret. Only the true "students" of the art would be able to watch and pick up on the move and attack based off how the person moved their hand/leg and how the other person fell. However, other than that I'm not seeing an advantage to the "no touch" which give potential students a false sense of abilities which aren't practical to defend yourself or your family. I enjoyed the video and it explains a lot, thank you!
So it's like in kumite when you throw the same set of techniques 3 or 4 times in a row, and change it the next time to get your strike into the gap you create by their "trained" reaction.
Ooh ..... this is how it works, i think scientific research shouldn't be done to explain this thing. Your explanation is reasonable and logic. Thanks
What I think how no touch technique should work on "non-hypnotized people" is if they move in a way not as I expected they would meet my fist, with their face. So nage have to move with "intent" to deal real damage to make it work
Wow this blows my mind BUT...
Those students are human being. Could it be that NONE of them realize it? Could it be possible that even if they realize it, the pattern is so ingrained in their brain that they just have to do the move? Kind of like you have to flinch if someone threw a punch even if you realize it's a fake punch. I'm skeptical on that but I can't rule that out as a possibility.
Keep in mind that the ones who realized it have left the school a long time ago.
anlumo1 I really don't think they'd leave their friends without exposing the teacher first.
I'd bet they are gradually pushed out of the school if they start to show signs of non compliance.
No touch schools are LITERAL cults. Like, Scientology-style. They use the same methods, have their own mythos with alternate history, and the teacher acts like a spiritual guru.
The Uke is co-operating and anticipates the technique being demonstrated and taught, and thus "take the fall with no touch." You are right that this isn't going to work on the street, but the technique being demonstrated must be acquired first, before it can be used in any street application or modification. The problem is that most Aikido sensei do not teach "street" applications of Aikido techniques which include atemi, etc. which perpetuates this view that Aikido is a "fantasy" art or ineffective martial art.
I like this video, thanks. We have similar problems in Tai Chi but slightly crazier.
Crazier than this?! Wow, that must be something!
@@MartialArtsJourney mostly people trying to sell chi ball attacks and other fallacious things. Mostly though, much like Aikido which I have also trained in, people are told that empty force is the same thing as no force. Instead of what it is which is minimal force. It wasn't until I started cross-sparring that I finally learned how to use Tai Chi.
Yes it's the same technique as when a guy tries to rob you on the street and you say 'look! An ufo !' he looks away and you run the other way 😂
A good term you could use is fight "choreographed" techniques
The only way ‘no touch’ can work is via psychological responses...
Best example in a practical setting is a ‘flinch’.
MAYBE, just maybe, if someone is already off balance, and you flinch them, they might fall.
Or as you’ve demonstrated. they are REALLY off balance and you give them something to hang onto and pull away at the last second, they might grasp and fall....
But it’s total 1% stuff....
Well, we might have accidentaly developed a lot of no touch techniques in our reenactment group. Reenactment for audience is practically a martial theatre so when our boys train their duels to rigidly it often happens that one of them starts to act being hit even before the other one connects with his cut. :-D
i have researched many jujutsu styles and kenjutsu styles over the years, they have a common theme when referring to this type of no touch, i always put it down to kiai extremely loud, and thus intimidating the attacker before he begins, into withdrawing from the confrontation.
A very good and logical explanation. That's how fake wrestling began from real wrestling. The wrestlers know moves and counters so well that they can fake it and audience wouldn't know.
So youre saying that it doesnt work without cooperation? Basicaly it wouldnt work as a "self defence, because an attacker is not cooperating?
LOL i genuinely laughed out loud watching this. she is adorable. she looks like "can we hurry this up, i have food in the oven" lol
No touch techniques do not work.As you said,it's a co-operation between practitioners because they know what pattern to expect.
No touch is misunderstood. It creates an opportunity for a reaction through distraction. Feinting I believe it's called.
I would recommend looking at the aiki-nojutsu section of Daito ryu. There are several techniques that contain elements of what could be considered "No touch." The best way I can currently describe it, is a form of psychological timing during a committed attack. Once an opponent has committed to striking or grabbing, there's a small window of opportunity to affect what they're doing by either, your limbs not being quite where they're reaching, or by taking their space, both physically and mentally, all without making physical contact.
The main difference in the way Daito ryu practices these sorts of principles, as well as the concept of aiki in general, when compared to aikido, is that it's more compact and immediate, with an emphasis on hard/soft, while aikido tends to emphasize a relaxed flow. You could think of aikido as a tone and Daito ryu as a beat. In order to affect a sudden change in your opponent, you need to break their relaxed flow. You do this by mentally destabilizing them. The boxer's feint is a good example of how this principle works, one causing a change in the other over distance.
If you apply these sorts of concepts when practicing "No touch" techniques, you might see a different point of view. Although, it could be argued that you're still touching your opponent, just mentally instead of physically.
It's sometimes hard to put into words what can sometimes only be experienced, especially when one person is affecting the other, without actually making contact.
It doesnt seem like you know anything about combat sports.
What, like ice hockey? That gets pretty brutal at times. Two teams wearing armour, going at it with big sticks, occasionally getting up close and personal.
@@frankbrown4780 no, like MMA
Never said I did.
Okay. This is an explanation. But it won't apply to anywhere else in the world. You can't have that explanation apply for when you're trying to defend yourself in the street. A attacker is rushing you so you ask him to hold on a minute while you explain to him why you don't have to physically touch him for him to fall down? Don't think so. They should not allow this to be taught if it is not effective as a defense in a real situation.
Brown Chi, practiced by the martial art Fart Chi Do always work. Its hard training, its a way of live with certain foods, but then you empty rooms full of people in seconds....