State of Retro Game Collecting Follow-up - Completely Unnecessary Podcast
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- Опубліковано 26 вер 2013
- Pat & Ian respond to some of the comments & criticism from the last podcast.
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People. Let's all just calm down and take a second to admire Ian's T-Rex arms at 11:00.
Ebay is no longer an auction site when it comes to video games for the most part. A huge chunk (especially for more coveted games) are BIN's that are listed above what items would go for in an open auction. Auctions reflect more of a true price-point.
Everything Ian said about people who sell games is spot on. I worked for a Buybacks for a long time and witnessed many people sell games for much less than they should because they needed/wanted that money right away or didn't know what they had.
At the time I worked for the company, their policy was that for any game made for a system that no longer has games being made for it, the maximum we could pay out was $5.
I had a middle-aged woman come in with two shoe boxes full of her son's SNES games. This was just over a week after a different woman left her perfect-condition, working SNES system at the store, an SNES that became mine, and I had an eye out for anything SNES. The highlights of the games in the boxes were Turtles in Time, Castlevania IV, Zelda, Super Metroid, F-Zero, Final Fantasy II (IV) and III (VI), Contra III: The Alien Wars, Super Mario World, Chrono Trigger, the two Breath of Fire games, Mario Kart, Lion King, Secret of Mana, the Star Wars trilogy, Mega Man 7, the Mega Man X series, and like the gold at the end of the rainbow, the last game in the second box was Earthbound.
I rang up every game and called the woman back to the register. I felt guilty about offering the roughly $75 that we were offering, and I explained that many of these games were the cream of the crop on the system. The woman thought about it for a second and then said that she would rather go ahead and sell them rather than "fuss" with listing them on eBay. After a quick talk with my then-manager and still-best friend, I offered the woman $100. She accepted, I cleared out the transaction, and I opened the register and gave her five twenties. On my lunch break, I withdrew $100 from my personal savings account and put it in the register. Those games were, and still are, mine.
This scenario repeated on a weekly basis. That was the richest haul by far; no one during my time there came in with such a treasure trove. However, people came in weekly, in not daily, with stuff that they didn't know the true value of. I built a large collection of SNES, Genesis, PS, PS2, Xbox, GameCube, and Wii games and DVDs and Blu-Rays through that store and company.
In my last week with the company, a person came in with a copy of Earthbound and a bunch of other SNES games (I got Wild Guns, Act Raiser 2, and Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 out of the bundle). He looked sad, really sad, but immediately said he had to sell everything because he had to bail his girlfriend out of jail. The guy HATED selling the games, but he didn't think twice when I made the offer to him.
I usually don't sell game on Ebay (besides with DVDs), but ask others what I've sold games for at events like MAGFest or SGC. Hint: it's usually much lower than all just about all the other dealers, so much so that they usually try to buy games from me in order to instantly mark up and re-sell at the same convention.
I have never seen or heard of "Pat the NES Punk" or "Game Chasers" used to help sell a game auction. I'm sure "AVGN" has been used though.
We addressed this to a degree in our original discussion if you wish to check it out.
I am a collector/reseller. I agree with a lot of their points in this video. But I personally like to camp on rarer/uncommon games, not because I am hoping their value goes up, but because I am a collector as well, and I save expensive titles for trade bait, rather then sell them for cash.
Wow this is an early episode! Holy cow...crazy...
Thanks for this episode. I'm trying to start a game store in Atlanta and this is some really helpful advice.
Just the audio, but we are cutting up most of the segments into video form.
Opening sealed retro games is the most satisfying feeling.
You...
You monster.
What makes you say that?
Video games are meant to be played.
Keeping them sealed is an insult to the creators.
Keeping them boxed just to look at them is not what the intended purpose was.
If you want to look at pretty art, start collecting paintings.
Can't you get a copy of a unboxed version? The more we open boxed copies the less we'll have in the future and soon they all might disappear. I understand the whole point is to play them but we have vastly better means.
Getter Christ Sure, we can leave games unopened, but that's a bit depressing IMHO.
Getter Christ Because getting a boxed copy in the same condition as a new copy is incredibly difficult with how most people take care of thier games (very poorly, that is)
Anti-trust and monopoly laws exist for just about many business and commodities to protect the consumer, not just for the "necessities." Look at what happened to Microsoft. Ethics vary from person-to-person. What you see as ethical in some cases I see as profiteering and unnaturally skewing a market and gaming the system. In the end, the majority of people who end up suffering in these cases are consumers, which doesn't help anyone but those taking advantage. You think that's fine. I do not.
I love that Ian is always drinking beer lol...just started listening to these CU podcasts...lovin' it!
Love these. Keep em coming
Really great stuff from Pat as usual
I was really excited when I found a copy of Ikaruga at a thrift store, but when I got it home and took it out of the plastic bag the store used, I found it was a sealed copy. I was instantly surprised and then really upset because I wanted to play the game but I knew it was worth more sealed. Sealed is cool, but it really makes a game nothing more then a paper weight.
I hate the term reseller. Private dealer, business owner, whatever. Everything in business that has to do with retail is a form of reselling. Its the nature of the person who sells it. I sell games myself but I keep it fair and realistic. I don't rip people off. I hate that myself as much as any collector.
I do occasionally buy sealed games, but I do that so that I can open them. There's nothing like the smell of an NES game as you open it for the first time.
i'm loving these podcasts pat! keep up the good work :)
yeah like I get that a store needs to charge more because they have bills to pay for but here is an example, Final Fantasy on the NES. the game on average is about 15-20$ cart only, yet stores in Toronto charge anywhere from 20-60$ for it cart only. I can accept a mark up of 10$ max, so 30$ but anything more than that is insane. so when I got a complete in box copy for 20$ in a store I was psyched! I took the cartridge out, replaced it with the one i already owned and played, and sold the double cartridge for just 10$. do my actions sound fair?
Thoroughly enjoyed this, thank you! Keep up the great work Pat and Ian
There is an infamous store in my town called the Bargain Bin. The owner is the biggest douche I have EVER met in my life. In the store, he puts pictures up of himself meeting famous people, trying to portray that he's a nice guy. But, I've seen the way he treats people. Utterly disguising.
Anyways, I see stuff in the store, such a piss colored SNES system for $95. So, I ask the clerk how much would they buy one like that for? Their response, $10 because it is very hard to sell. Oh I bet! They have a glass case with "rare" games in them. Prices I see are, Legend of Zelda ($40), Contra ($30), Ninja Gaiden Trilogy ($220), Earthbound ($250), Secret of Mana ($120).
It's sad because there's no other market for older video games in my town, and I'm stuck with eBay or Bargain Bin.
I'm a reseller (as a hobby), but the whole reason I do it is to give people a lower price than they'll find online for games and consoles. If I see something at a flea market or a thrift store, and it isn't dirt cheap, I don't buy it.
Collecter-player?.
Very good point.
Something that no one really talks aboot is the fact, many collectors have developed the mentality that if they wait to buy a game then the price will continue to rise. So they click BIN on ebay, so that they have it before the price increases. As long as people think this way, price will only continue to rise, and hoarders/resellers will continue to jack up prices.
I recently got into trying to collect some old games and finding good deals around town is hard. The few people that have stuff at the flea market around here don't have the most reasonable prices and they don't budge even a dollar or two. I don't know how they are making money at all when their booth is dead and they have such a terrible selection. I really have to try and find some different places.
Loving these podcast videos guys keep it up please.
how about both?
Interesting to watch this 8 years later to listen to the commentary on sealed games. Still agree with them
Yeah, because I've really done that so far here! You're entitled to your opinion here, as misguided as I think it is.
I have owned 3 different copies of Eartbound over the years. I bought the first one for 20 and sold it a few years later for 90. I got my second copy for 4 bucks and sold it for 200. The third copy i got for 10 and sold for 300. There are so many of them around that it is incredibly stupid to pay high prices for it.
even when ian and pat are in the same room, ian's side of the camera still looks fuzzier than pat's lol
Great podcast, keep them coming!
I cant really understand where people don't understand what you're about. Youve got a business, you need to make money. But you do it openly and fairly. You don't screw with the supply and demand, you live with it. It's the difference (if you can see the humour in my choice of words) between a benign parasite and a cancer (and I REALLY mean that humourously! We NEED people like you doing what you do otherwise we have to deal with an asshole instead of a fan)
I wish I lived by you Ian. I would LOVE to get $20 in store credit for Super Mario 3.
I think Ian makes some valid points. He has a business to run, rent/utilities to pay, he has to keep his store open so I don't know why people are bashing him....
Hey pat, do you post a video version of the full podcast somewhere on your site, or just the audio?
there is a used game store I go to every month that I enjoy going to. The people are great and they have some neat stuff from time to time. On occasion the prices feel are a bit extra, like Dragon Warrior for 11 bucks (for where I live, that game is hard find). I don't mind paying that little bit extra because I do want to help the store out and they've always had something that i've wanted, sometimes at lower prices. Secret of Mana is about 65-70 bucks, i got mine for 60!
I'm wary of waiting sometimes, especially if its a game I really want and the prices just keep increasing. I feel if I wait too long, then the price will get out of the range I'm willing to pay. Like EarthBound, for instance. I'd love to own an original snes copy, but not for $200+! Now I'm waiting on the prices to drop so I can get one, but will that ever happen? Maybe I could get lucky and stumble on one for cheap in the wild from a seller that has no idea what they have. But what are the chances of that?
Quoting 6:30
So if I was willing to sell demons crest for $10 and sell it for $20 or would you sell it for $80?
Steffen Robitzsch You would never sell it for $10, so why try to catch them in a Gotcha moment?
You guys rule! Much love.
I got into Retro gaming in October 2012 (I'd wanted to get into it for a while but that was the first time I'd been able to get a hold of an NES and N64 (got them the same day for $70 with some games and the N64 had the expansion pak) right before the market skyrocketed, the guy I bought them from was hoping to build a good business relationship with me (which he did) he threw in an extra NES controller and the zapper and an extra N64 controller as well as some games that at the time were worth $5-$10 within 6 months I saw prices double and then triple for some titles.
Very good and informative video. I was wondering though, what is your opinion of people who freak out when you open something that is still sealed? I remember in one of your videos one of the top comments was "OMG he opened a game that was still sealed!!" I am of the opinion that it's your damn game so you can do what you want with it, and as you said in the video, it's a special feeling to tear into a new item like that and know you are the only one to have played this or ever will play it.
it has a link is the description.
It's sad. That was a really interesting topic, as a few friends and I were discussing this a few days ago, but the thing I'm going to remember the most is that disgusting Tecate on the table.
Some great discussion.
Ian, the other reason to price games at the general market rate is so that other resellers don't raid your shop to flip them
Hey Pat, are you going to be selling any games at PRGE this weekend?
People who are intentionally buying up supply to influence market prices for their benefit ARE doing something unethical in my eyes, and many others. It is *illegal* to do that with certain commodities for a reason. Why do you think they've passed many laws to curtail ticket scalping? Because people were gaming the system and consumers were taking an unnecessary hit. Same thing here. And yes, 99% of the time the people that defend unethical "market practices" are the ones practicing it.
does ian have a youtube? also ditto too full video podcast on youtube or your website
I do own a few sealed games (Resident Evil 2 and Star Fox for the N64, Life Force for the NES), but I also have loose carts of those games and have played them. I just dig those games and want pristine copies in my collection. No way would I collect titles to monetize them. It really is irksome to find a video showcasing a gem of a game I missed out on and finding out that the buying prices are through the roof. I enjoy collecting physical copies, but if the best I can do at the time is to download a title off of XBLA, PSN or the Wii Shop Channel then I'm fine with that. Collecting just to amass an impressive number of games and nothing more is a little cray cray. I buy games (old and new) because I enjoy playing video games. Pure and simple.
contd:
To your point about free market capitalism: You're absolutely correct. People don't often realize that the laissez-faire is nothing more than a concept that has never and likely will never exist. When people use the term "free market", they're usually referring to the neo-liberal, mixed-market economy that we find ourselves in which is how I was using the term.
Sorry if I wasn't clear in what I meant. These terms have a lot of baggage attached to them.
I have so many games that I haven't played. I have a massive games collection and I feel bad for each game because I'm thinking 'you could go to a home where you can be loved and cherished for the unique gem that you are, instead of being lumped together with 100+ different boxes. I like to think that they get out and play with each other like in Toy Story.
Man, this would make a cool video game itself. Hunt for cartridges, Rare ones give you power ups, different towns different levels, but be careful the evil resellers that want to steal your score.
I don't like seales games but would about Complete in box. And Yes when I say complete it has to have Overlays, Maps, Posters or Outer Boxes.
Another reason that contributes to the increase of prices that i don't think anyone else has mentioned are people paying over the odds so that they can get them graded by VGA in hope that they get back 10 times the amount they originally paid for the game.
And the thing that worries me is if more people keep getting this company to more or less re-seal these games for profit we will all have to end up using emulators instead of the real thing to play them which is sad to think about.
Does Ian have a website for his shop?
@Ian about collectors and what we are willing to spend. Most of the time you are right we are cheap however... we will pay full retail or close to it if it is something we desire for our collection, that we will ultimately play, AND that we also expect the price to go up even higher in the near future. We are cheap yes, but cheap AND stupid we are not.
wow Pat ...ur letting urself go... o.o u should do a Exercise video game episode for New Years resolution :)
And that's the last I'm going to be replying on this. Have fun with the rest of the discussion. Keep it clean. Keep it fun.
Im watching this in 2020 and the gaming market has changed a little. Game prices have increased due to more greedy ppl and sellers that are uneducated on current prices. I have pretty much every retro game i want for now. Crazy prices have discouraged me from buying. Great topic being taljwd about by respected knowledgeable gamers kudos guys.
Ian and Pat all i can say is thumbs up!
Great podcast. Screw unscrupulous resellers, and screw sealed games.
Local game stores offer a real and useful service. I can't go door to door (though I should...) asking people if they have old games in their closets. Local stores offer an avenue for those people to get rid of their stuff easily without getting utterly ripped off, and then sell it back to gamers who also aren't getting totally ripped off.
The dude that buys an old lady's closet of games out for $50 and puts each one up on eBay at stupid BINs is taking advantage of numerous people and hurting the hobby in the process.
Attracting these vultures is a side effect of gaming's huge current popularity, and I for one can't wait until the spotlight moves over to the next hot thing these scumbags can monetize so they can leave the hobby I've cared about for 25 years the hell alone.
The resellers around here are actually better than the gaming stores. Most give alot more cash than the gamestores. most stores around here give 5%-20% cash. most resellers offer atleast 50% cash. I know this from selling items on craigslist. Gamestores are getting greedy. alot of them offer dirt cheap payments, then throw the game on ebay for $$$. That is one reason that it is getting harder to find quality games in my area. most stores only have $5 or less games in stock because the rest of them go online. plus if they only keep $5 games on the shelf it helps them keep the customers stupid, and they can continue to give $1 cash for games like Duck Tales 2, ect...
Some stores are just awful. They post up and sell copies of Mario World, Mario All Stars, and Zelda for $50 each. They sell Super Metroid, Castlevania IV, Kirby, and others for like $75 each. It's complete horse shit.
SuperMar Show yeah, thankfully the last one like that around here went out of business last week. sadly the only one left prices stuff so low that one reseller goes in there every morning and spends an average of $500 a day and then flips everything he buys on ebay... The owner was telling me about it this week. He said he's just happy to be making money, and that the franchise owner decides prices not him... sad story.
I don’t keep sealed games at all. Games are designed to be played not to be looked at on a shelf
As someone who doesn't have swap meets near me, I find Craigslist to be the last "honest" place to buy stuff. Of course, there are games and consoles that are priced ridiculously there, but you have more of a chance to find more reasonable prices, partly because there are no fees and shipping costs for the seller. That, and I've met many awesome people through Craigslist game deals (both selling and buying). I only use eBay if I have something that doesn't have general appeal.
wow, i'll give credit to Ian for his honesty towards his customers, not many ppl would actually do that.
there is a nwc cart for sale on ebay $5000
wait so putting your name in the auction wont get me more money? dam I've gotta change my listings
Hope u talk about graded game resellers one day ;)
Cool, thanks Pat. I thought you guys reiterated most of that one so I skipped it.
I didn't write off your criticisms. I just don't agree with them and think they are wrong. Big difference.
As a broke college student who's grown up going to a lot of Classic Gaming Expos and who's always had a love of classic games (For me the snes/ps1 era). I bought a boxed genesis paperboy at a thrift shop last week... I was inspired to let it go cheap on ebay & explore bids, but I realized what the real definitions being defined. You're not selling your games to make a profit, you're selling the games to fund buying more games. The hobby is funding itself to stay a fun hobby. You're a trader.
I wish your store sold games online. You guys do great work for retro gaming! Don't worry about the trolls. It's not your fault someone fed them after midnight.
Games are my favorite artistic medium. I cherish the game-player interface and gameplay experience. Getting a game just to "collect" it is a fucking tragedy. Its like buying an amazing painting just to lock it in a box and have it
i live in a town where retail stores sell mario 3 loose for 50... sad but true
I have a sealed NES cleaning kit, but I am debating with myself to open it. I don't want it to look at, I want it to clean my system and games (system especially). But there is only a finite number of sealed cleaning kits out there, meaning if I open it (along with a lot of other people), it will drive the price up, and also be harder to find. I think I will get an already opened one, so I don't have the weight on my shoulders. BUT I WANT A CLEANING KIT!!! its a tough decision.
Open it. What's the point of keeping something sealed?
Do either of you think the retro market may be headed for a dip? As a long time collector I've watched the popularity skyrocket with youtube personalities such as Avgn and others but I've noticed a downward trend this year in my area.
I would rather deal with a person like Ian than someone online because if you keep dealing with a certain small business for whatever you are buying you will build a relationship with that person and you will get better deals
I agree totally with you as I hate ebay but it's one of my only ways of getting games at the moment
All collectors at some point resell and if eBay is used you will generally get market price for the game.
I've liked a franchise enough to rebuy the sealed games (all really cheap under 20usd) and keep them for the shrine. But getting a brand new game for 60$ just to have it graded is really dumb.
I could careless about any sealed game. But IMO boxed(not sealed) N64 games would look nice on the shelf, just for the fact you can't really display the loose catridges because they have no top label like NES or SNES. Even though they take up alot of room, it would be nice.
Where is Earthbound going for 100-200 bucks?!?!?!?!?
eBay is like 500+ but I have never seen it in person in Canada
There was a person in Edmonton selling on Kijiji for $650 obo. You can start a decent collection for that price.
My biggest concern for the retro game market is how long is the hardware going to last. Now, I don't mean the game systems. As we've seen, those are going to continue to be remade via clone systems or harvested parts from broken systems. I'm talking about the cartridges themselves. There has to be a point of deterioration, right? I know at least with the games with battery backups that, if nothing else, those batteries have to be replaced. I've already had to change the battery for my copy of Earthbound several years ago, and I'm just waiting to have to do it again. And if people don't end up changing those batteries, after an even longer amount of time, there is a slight chance that those batteries could leak and cause irreversible damage to the cartridge.
I guess my biggest question is, when do the games become not playable? Will all of the collection really have been worth it if you can't even play it? That's why, while I'm not a fan of pirating, I am a fan of finding ways to preserve the actual game itself on computer so that you can still enjoy them via emulator. Devices like the Retrode let you do that for a handful of systems, but sadly this doesn't work with all games. While there will be a risk of pirated games and what not, I think more attention needs to be made to being able to dump the roms from your game cartridges so that you'll still be able to enjoy it 10, 20, 30 years down the line. I guess that's just my two cents. Obviously, I'm not a collector, just a retro gamers, so maybe my musings fall short to this particular crowd, but it's a major concern for me to be honest.
I went to the hardcore pawn 's shop and it is sad and pathic, as a pawn shop it was the worst I been to, and its merchandise is a big big big rip off. $40 for nes duck hunt, no box, no manual, damaged label with marker all over it.They only had about 5 nes games, 3 snes, about 10 wii which they are trying to sell at new release price for used unboxed, no manual. They had very little merchandise when I went there, it felt empty small, and a huge waste of my time and I lived about 5 miles away.
Please explain why a reseller like game city will charge $150 for the retron 3 when amazon.ca has it for $60?
I was actually quoted that you're paying $50 per system. This isn't he only unnecessary markup I've come across.
All you have to know is that most of the UA-cam commenters that are complaining are immature morons who have never owned a business and you'll realize why you don't have to defend yourself against them. Zen. Oooooommmmm... :)
I feel as though if I opened my sealed games that would only beaf up the price on others if I had all sealed of games I would open
Ian does your store make good bank? Are u a big chain or an independent store??
Everyone online says Xenoblade was a gamestop exclusive. I got mine online from Nintendo directly.
Crazy that Earthbound has exponentially risen in market value.
I think you forget one possitive thing about sealed collectors: they help to preserve a part of our past in perfect shape. ( and I am not a sealed collector, Ia m a player of retro games )
Opening up a sealed retro game and playing it is like the crack or heroine of gaming.
There's a difference between controlling a supply that cannot be replenished and one that can. If we are to use a retro collectable like Flintstones, there is a limited supply of those games, and thus a limit to the potential profit that can be gained from sitting on those carts. Monopolies like coal and oil tycoons back in the early 20th century didn't have a limited supply in any meaningful sense. Further, these are seen as necessities and not extravagances like video game collecting.
...that was a perfect end.
He's right though players are the ones dropping 200 on Earthbound for the experience.
+TheBrainScratcher actually pay said that didn't he?
I would be intereste to know how many people commenting saying Ian is unethical in his business practices have not at some point made a pretty penny of of a deal they once made. I would guess not many..
if a game is selling on ebay lets say $200 they ebay takes 10% then you pay for shipping lets say another $5 to $20 so you already lost lets say $40 on a 200 game plus the wait time of someone thats willing to pay for it plus alot of times paypal will hold your funds for a few days after you sell it so you dont get the cash up front as well
It's the difference between a music venue and a ticket scalper. Yes, both are just selling tickets to concerts in order to make money. However, the scalper is only making money by keeping you from being able to enjoy a good or service.
In economic terms, the scalper is not adding value to the economy, but is in effect collecting economic rent from a... wait for it... captive audience.
In contrast, Ian does provide a value to the economy. He has a clean, well-lighted store, where potential buyers can inspect the goods before purchase. He offers knowledge, in the form of his own personal accumulation of expertise, which he shares for free, on speculation that consumers may (or may not) purchase a given product. He offers contracts on goods purchased, since he has a return policy (and there is also the implied warranty of merchantability). He even offers security and transportation, in the portion of the rent he pays that goes to property taxes, which helps pay for the police and the roads.
Now, Ian doesn't have to do any of this. He could close his stores, rent climate-controlled storage for a fraction of what he's paying now for retail space, and with his and Pat's knowledge, probably do extremely well with speculating on the game market. The income taxes would be a pain, but he could always just get a day job, or open up a small business, like they did in Breaking Bad. For that matter, he could maybe even open up a few game stores, great place to stash extra stock, keep your ear to the ground, see what the kids are into... perfect cover for the largest underground game sellers in North America.
Wait a second... IAN, ARE YOU HEISENBERG?
Pat, we need to sell.
Still waiting to buy Demon's Crest... It's so expensive...