You made such a good point about the separation of art and artist not being available to minorities within the scene. A lot of metal channels I follow don’t seem to understand this very basic point. Your perspective is very needed in the scene today.
Wow You'd think people wouldn't need an explanation why minorities (of whatever type) *can't* get down w Nazis. As if the insecure desire to destroy other ppl minding their own biz is an equal viewpoint to those other ppl just fucking existing. As if it's some kinda "both sides" thing lol.😂 Like no bro, we didn't start this fight and you cant agree to disagree with them because they literally have a problem with other ppl just existing.
I’m so glad you talked about this! It’s such an open taboo I found your video because my friend and I we discussing which genre is “faster” (it was getting very nerdy and musically theoretical) In any case, neither of us are white, and we’ve had some VERY bad/weird experiences with other fans of black metal Now, I tend to avoid interacting with other metal fans IRL until I know you’re cool It’s really a shame because I can honestly say that most metal fans and artists I’ve met are really nice people, but it’s happened enough times that you gotta make sure
Cradle of Filths album Cruelty amd the Beast introduced me to black metal and ive loved black metal ever since but death metal is more brutal so it depends on my mood at the moment, love em both 👍
Do you know In Vain? They do a similar thing but they are much less heavy, kind of progressive. I especially liked their AEnigma album. And then there is also Belphegor that is even heavier then Behemoth.
I wanna voice like yours, because it so badass. And my opinion on the bm and dm is: black metal has mysterious atmosphere, while death metal mercilesly throws you into a brutal chaotic gory massacre. Black metal - blade, Death metal - hammer. So they both brutal, but differently. And I prefer more death metal, for this heavy sound and riffs that smashing your head while you brutally headbanging. My favourite death metal band is Mortician. Abominated horrific low growled vocals, robotic cold sounding blastbeats, and absolute heavy bass and guitars makes me 😮 every time.
I've always loved that within metal there are such different genres. So much so that I never listen to Death Metal because I don't really like it, whereas I can listen to Black Metal ad nauseum and have the best time. Death metal has always felt sort of flat, cartoonish and "obvious" if that makes sense, whereas Black Metal, being more melodic and often atmospheric (dungeon synth woo) is more mysterious and transportive for me. Seeing Mayhem in Orange County a few years ago was the most spiritual live music experience I've had. Death Metal transports me to a Florida basement with chopped off limbs and crusty bongs. Not where I wanna astral project lol. To each their own!
@@ElohAraphelactually it's not death metal. Death metal should not be melodic because the origin of death metal is brutality and technique. It should evoke the feeling of smashing things with aggressive mechanical sound
That was an excellent appraisal of both genres. Both have their merits and downsides, I personally love thrash metal but over the last couple of years have really got into death metal. Black metal has been hit and miss but I still enjoy it.
I love both but if i would have to choose i would go with black metal. I've always liked that raw sound and the atmosphere especially atmospheric black metal its just so damn good, i also prefer satanism, paganism, nature and stuff like that over gore and blood. Cheers!
Great video! I tend to like both depending on my mood. The last couple of years I've gotten into tech-death, bands like Gorod, Zenith Passage, Soreption, Beyond Creation, First Fragment, Psycroptic, Decrepit Birth, etc... What are your thoughts on tech-death????
There’s pros and cons to all genres. For myself I prefer death metal more than black metal because I find it fun. I can see why some people love black metal.
That would be tough but gun to my head I'd go death metal. I'd hate to make that pick because I really do think black metal has a higher ceiling... But there's just so much bad sounding black metal to wade through. Meanwhile I find mid death metal to still be pretty listenable.
Thanks for all the recommendations at the end! Personally I like black metal because I find the sound of death metal to be a bit too masculine. I guess the emotion in black metal speaks to me more.
🤷 it's not for everyone, but I will say I got into DM first and black metal grew on me. It was an acquired taste for me. I just needed the right bands. I got into Behemoth first (blackened death) and last night I saw Rotting Christ live. A lot of true kvlt BM folks will say that's not real BM but 🤷 I like what I like. 🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy omg you saw rotting christ live? I saw them just over a week ago. I'm assuming you saw Uada at the same concert then. I love those guys so much ☺️ I hope you enjoyed the concert too!
@@michipichi0 if you like the atmosphere more then try Death Doom, it's an easier listen than Pure death metal and you also get awesome all female bands like Konvent.
Wouldn't one consider Death high art? Chuck's vocals and his guitar playing are legendary. Spiritual healing, his cover of painkiller, spirit crusher, the list goes on. However, Chuck didn't do a lot of growling. And later his vocals got high pitched and he sounded similar to black metal vocalists. What do you think about Chuck and his vocal style? I sometimes feel like Death is more like blackened death metal, especially in sound of perseverance
Agreed. Death is a special band. I would argue they started the tech death and progressive death movements. For instance I would consider The Work by Rivers of Nihil to be high art. But I wouldn't call that purely death metal either.
Hey man thanks for mentioning the minority/non-white fans, as a young Latina metal head it’s very refreshing to see people like us being mentioned because we have definitely gave huge contributions to many genres such as metal. Awesome video all in all, earned a new sub. 🖤💪🏽
True. Peter Sandoval, Jesse Pintado, Brian Fajardo, Tom Araya, Dave Lombardo, the classic Sepultura guys, Sarcófago, a bunch of other Brazilians, the whole Colombian scene and some of Chile have been world-class latinos.
I have an especial love for Black Metal as it is the genre that got me into Metal in the first place. I love me some Death Metal as well, but there's just something about the dark ambiance of good Black Metal that really does it for me. That being said, you have to sift through a lot of mediocrity in both camps to find the real gems since there's an oversaturation of bands kicking around online these days. I've always been of the opinion that the most memorable bands, Black or Death, are the ones that are able to transcend the limitations of genre. Each genre has a bunch of constituent parts that makes it what it is, but the best bands seem able to assemble those parts in a unique and inspiring way. I think you hit the nail on the head re: Blackened Death Metal, though. I think the best new bands are the ones that defy easy categorization and draw from the best aspects of extreme Metal. A lot of emerging bands seem to be students of Metal as a whole, and it really shows. I, for one, am definitely here for this new, genre-bending age.
I prefer Black Metal. Death Metal is too chaotic for me. I like the repetitive nature and more atmospheric approach of Black Metal. As for the NSBM thing... That's honestly a minority. Most Black Metal isn't like that.
Yea I probably should've pointed that out. The misogyny in death metal is also a minority. It's just enough to be weird. Like... Do any other genres of music have enough to get a genre distinction with the letters NS in front of it?
@@heavymetalphilosophy Well there's N*zi Punk 😉. Which probably is a bigger genre than the NSBM thing. But I guess since both Punk and Black Metal (2nd wave at least) started out as a protest against the established order they share that aspect of it. And the obsession with runes also plays a part in attracting the wrong crowd I guess. Also let's not forget certain acts within the neo-folk genre.
Lately I've been listening to tons of War/Bestial Metal. I go into different moods and my ear changes. That's one of the many things about Metal that I love so much!🤘
“Death metal should kill every gender” I’m pretty sure they do, and always have, I don’t know if I would call it misogyny because they don’t actually promote sexist views but I will admit it is a bit weird that if you don’t have anything to say about the world or hate on religion or the government or whatever, the default lyrics are often the same as Tomb of the mutilated, but let’s be real how many of us actually read or even care about the lyrics for death metal. The thing is not every band that sings about gory stuff focuses on violating women in their songs, usually I find with a lot of things people tend to focus on and make it an issue when there’s women involved, just look at horror films, people always claim oh it’s mostly women that die in horror films, yes there are a few films where more women die either because of say like evil dead 1 because the cast was three women and two men, or something like the New York ripper where the killer exclusively kills women but in real life serial killers usually have an oddly specific victim profile. If you actually sit there and count victim demographics in horror films like the channel dead meat, most horror films it’s usually pretty evenly split or it’s mostly men that die. Another example would be body image we always here complaints about unrealistic body image for women in media, yet there are quite a few for men too, but you never hear about it, but I guess the reason for that is most men, including myself don’t give a shit, jeez I guess that tells you that women are more vain than men are! I’m just kidding there are lots of really vain men out there.
Right! Great that we don't have to choose. I saw Dark Funeral open for Cannibal Corpse last year. Did I prefer Cannibal? Yes. Was Dark Funeral fun to watch? Also yes. 🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy Thats the great thing, both have amazing offers, and in different ways. I think you hit it on the head, Black Metal can be art, Death Metal, no matter what subgenre is great entertainment. Favourites of each would be Deicide/Bolt Thrower/Dying Fetus, Anaal Nathrakh, Marduk
hey im looking to get into black metal but i have never listened to the classics or 2000's albums can you give me some quickfire essential black metal listens. death metal fan
I'd recommend getting into blackened death metal first. It's more familiar but will introduce you to the elements of black metal. Behemoth's album The Satanist is a masterpiece. If you like that then try venturing into the more pure black metal like Darkthrone and Gorgoroth. It can be an acquired taste because like I said in the episode they purposely make the recordings sound bad. But even if it's not your thing, some modern black metal bands are leaving that true kvlt bullshit at the door and making quality music. Rotting Christ, Carach Angren, White Ward, Gaerea etc.
11:05 I appreciate you pointing this out even though you said you're biased toward death metal. I've felt that in the last 15 years black metal has been the catalyst for so much experimental and groundbreaking music. I still love death metal as well but I love to see genres pushed to their limit and subverted.
Depends on the day. Some days I like the groovy death metal bands like 200 Stab Wounds. Some days I want something a little weird. When I'm in a black metal mood I'm typically more into the progressive stuff. So like Dødeimsgard. One of my all time favorites is this new band called Hath. Filthy, groovy, proggy blackened death. Check out their latest All That Was Promised. 🤌🤌
@@heavymetalphilosophy thanks for your kind reply and recommendation of HATH, I love them!!, however I personally like anaal nathrakh when I’m in black metal mood, their music blend of black,death,grindcore, and industrial which is produced so damn heavy and no band heaviest than Anaal Nathrakh so far. For death metal I love all American bands.
Cannibal Corpse's Gallery of Suicide is oddly atmospheric for a death metal band. Except that, most of Death's music from Human onwards was very atmospheric and therapeutic. RIP Chuck
Thanks for the compare/contrast. I came into black & death metal sideways via crosses with other metal genres like symphonic or folk, so this is the first clear breakdown of the genres I've gotten. Now the difference is immediately clear even in those crossover genres-like all right, I can see how Zeal & Ardor or Myrkur branched off black metal and Fleshgod Apocalypse or Aether Realm branched off death metal. I'm more well-versed in death metal so I'm checking out some of your black metal recs-there's a lot more sax in False Light than I was expecting lol. I see what you mean about the higher artistic potential: death metal can be *skilled*, but black metal feels *meticulous*. I appreciate the comments on fascism & sexism in the genres. I don't want to go to a show if I think the band and its audience would look at my friends and me like we're subhuman. Lyrics about cartoony horror like satanism & gore hit different than lyrics that feel like an excuse for the artists to share what they really think.
Death metal makes statements, whereas black metal paints pictures. Death metal is like "sit down, shut up, and listen! I'm unhappy!! Do you understand?!!", whereas black metal is more like "am I happy? Here, let me tell you a little story and show you a few things so you can see them for what they really are, and you tell me whether you think I'm happy or not."
@heavymetalphilosophy thanks for the feedback! 🤘 Also, if I were to make an analogy with another genre, I would say that DM and BM are to metal what horrorcore and underground gangsta rap, respectively, are to hip hop. They both fall under the umbrella of "extreme [metal/hip hop]", but according to somewhat different definitions of "extreme"
Hey cool man!!! Looks like birds of a feather we very awesomely flock together. That said it's safe to say I love everything you have expressed!! Your over all out look on not just this topic, but a vast amount learning that you don't always go with the flow & you speak your thoughts & mind beautifully.. Thank you, sincerely Lu. ❤🤘🙏🌿❤️✌️
Great video! Just subed. 🤘 I will always lean towards Black Metal. The atmosphere and emotion is what I connect with. With that being said,Blackened Death Metal is the best genre. I love atmosphere but as a guitarist i love my solos.
Death metal parent genres: heavy metal, thrash metal, extreme metal, hardcore punk Black metal parent genres: heavy metal, death metal, thrash metal, extreme metal, speed metal, nwobhm, shock rock
I really agree with your conclusion. Good black metal like immortal or enslaved seem to shrug off all the stereotype evil without skill crap. At the heart of winter versus deathcrush would be a joke :)
4:20 No! You want that wall of sound in black metal and organic production. The antithesis would be overproduced, sterile sounding albums which simply doesn't suit black metal and is detrimental to the atmosphere
I don't look at it like either or. I look at it more like a spectrum. I think black metal bands can record punchy and crisp without all the static... And they can do that without doing the sterile and robotic recording that metalcore bands do. There are so many examples like Wolves in the Throne Room or Uada. It doesn't have to be purposely bad recording.
I don't mind the lyrics. I like the art behind it being like a horror movie. The songs I write mix the two lol I'm not in a band but I do it for my own amusement.
I love all genres of metal for different reasons. None are better or heavier than others. To me it’s all about context and situation. I feel like I listen to different genres of metal during different seasons. I will say, I dont support bands/artists with people who are objectively reprehensible humans. Some music is fun, some is artistically beautiful. Some is both. Some music is just good background music. I’m a fan of many genres of music btw, metal is just my favorite by far. When I write my own music, I take inspiration from all places. I dont play just metal, I play many things, and sometimes combine them. I like doing vocals when it comes to metal, but dont enjoy playing on my instruments. I like making more ambient softer stuff. Sometimes I like making EDM style music on my PC with MIDI’s. It’s therapeutic for me to be able to express myself in ways other than just aggressive music. While I can relax to it, and it’s my favorite, it’s not what I want all the time. Metal is a good way to channel negative emotions and tough topics, but I like to channel my positive emotions too.
Black Metal all the way. I listen to pretty much every type of metal except straight Death Metal, and I think I would prefer to listen to another non-metal genre altogether than Death Metal. All my favorite bands are some metal subgenre, but Death Metal is so... uninteresting.... Nothing really happens in the songs. People say the instrumentation is technical, but hardly, and bobbing your head to it is forced Death Metal is crap, and I'm talking those early 90's legendary bands- I'm sorry but it all sounds like some low-quality stuff you'd expect to hear while shooting heroin at a local punk show that only 25 people went to. Hardly ever a chord progression, just open strings chugging with a pinch harmonic every two bars. 16th notes on the bass drum the whole way through and you're good. It's really just bad music.
If we're talking 2022 blackened death metal releases, Altars Ablaze - Life Desecration was an absolutely crushing album. Most/all of the guys from Heaving Earth and similarly amazing.
The first black metal band I’ve ever heard was Behemoth, and since then I was hooked. I like metal to be atmospheric. It makes me feel like I am somewhere else in limbo. My favorite sub genre is depressive suicidal black metal, specially one-man bands, who don’t make any money and whose lives are sh*t like leviathan. I also prefer bands that have a member that has committed suicide like Mayhem (Dead), and even bands like Nirvana (Kurt Cobain), Liking Park (Chester Bennington), among others.
I am all about the chase for catchy heavy as hell riffs,Death Metal no contest.Was teenager during 80's listening to Thrash and moved to Death Metal,always felt Black Metal was a retrograde musical step and i don't find it that heavy.Black Metal seems to attract a younger crowd going through the emotional turmoil of adolescence.
I've never heard a better argument of us minorities not having the luxury of separating the artist from the art. Being a black man, I DEFINITELY couldn't show up and say, " I'm just here for the riffs." I love Black Metal, for all the reasons you said. But I always have to be vigilant. Thank you, Jon. This was a great, thoughtful exploration of my two favorite metal genres. 🤘
Whatever music you listen to is valid if it touches your inner self and leaves you in state of awe or guides you on path of creative freedom and audio ecstasy
The way you explain Death and Black Metal is cool songs must be about power and Metal and aggression but not negatively.If you get what i say lets keep lyrics fictional mostly and dont act out negatively and just love Metal music.😂 🤟
Although this wasn’t the main point of the video, thank you so much for calling out the N@Z! problem in black metal. As a mixed race person I struggle with my identity a lot, and one of the main reason why I like metal is because it rebels against a world that forces us into status quo structures and social contracts signed not by us but by our ancestors. Given metal’s overall themes of liberation (especially in extreme metal) it’s interesting that there’s a sect of metal which vouches for ideologies that are antithetical to the genre’s tradition of liberation and a critical analysis of past and present societies.
I'm racist af, but that's not gonna get me to listen to BM. That said, either find bands that don't have racial overtones or ignore that genre altogether. They have valid reasons for their beliefs, and it's not logically antithetical to metal. It's rebellion against a world that goes against nature and tribalism, which we have deeply ingrained in our psyche.
@@kkech1 an ideology which restricts the free movement of peoples and the right to free association of individuals based on such an arbitrary characteristic as race (a concept with legal and social roots beginning in the 17th century which don’t even revolve around concrete ethnic categories) is arguably just as antithetical to the state of nature. Just because you feel racial animosity doesn’t mean every human has some innate tribal allegiance, and tribalism does not necessarily equal racism and nationalism at all. In prehistoric times for example, tribes of entirely different SPECIES of humans coexisted. Your conception of tribalism is completely flawed and ahistoric so don’t pull some half-assed appeal to nature.
@@kkech1 But yes, technically everyone can express their beliefs musically in any way they see fit. I do not argue against that, but racism is logically antithetical to the traditions of metal. Ask Ozzy, Bruce Dickinson, Dave Mustaine, etc what they think of NSBM and they will completely reject it. I have their lyrics as evidence to that claim.
There are some good points made in the video, especially with regard to the more disfavorable aspects of death metal and black metal, but there are certain sentiments I can't at all agree with that come from both the video and the comments section. As someone who's listened to death metal from early adolescence to adulthood, I consider it one of the more diverse subgenres of metal. While it's true that death metal started off with some silly shlocky tropes, that can't be said for death metal well after the 90's and early 2000's. You don't see as much of that type of schlocky, gorey DM save for in micro genres of death metal where it's the whole shtick such as in brutal death metal/slam. There's a lot of death metal could have themes that range from philosophy, war, religion, to space and sci-fi, and micro genres like prog-death, death-doom, techdeath, melodeath, symphonic death metal, grind microgenres, epic death metal, deathcore and more niche microgenres like neoclassical death metal, and even death metalcs own atmospheric microgenre. Whereas with black metal, it started off with trying to sound and seem "evil" by being antichristian and occult, particularly with themes of satanism which is in itself just as shlocky as early DM themes.Thing is, that isn't unique to black metal, it's been done to death by metal in general. (With DM trying to sound evil as well just in a different way, and you having some death metal bands like Deicide having the same blasphemous shtick that black metal did, way before the black metal scene in certain places like Scandinavia becoming well established yet). Personally I feel like the black metal scene shot itself in the foot by having purists and conservative minded fans and musicians trying to force black metal to have the same sound, same themes and such due having the idea that bringing something new to the table often was just be copycats of each other and to double down and try to out-edge every other band out there, rather focus on their own musicmaking. (The most notorious example of this is Mayhem members claiming they weren't inspired by this or that bandmeanwhile you see one member wearing Bathory patches and another going to risk in a Venom band shirt.) I didn't really pick up black metal until much later when the subgenre was much more diverse, and now Im a big fan of atmoblack or other similar micro genres, but I've always been listening to death metal and I still am. Though I'm just like you, where I like blackened death metal the most(Imo Behemoth found the sound that clicked for them when they started doing blackened death metal, and I hope they don't ever change that, The Satanist and Evangelion slap.) I had a good laugh at you mentioning the whole thing with the more shlocky metal coming off as misogynistic as well, because I definitely noticed how much more often it's women being talked about getting hacked apart in death metal than any other group of people.
I largely agree with you analysis here. Things start to get more complicated as we dive deeper into the sub-genres. For example depressive black metal has a totally unique culture unto themselves. It's not for me personally (I'm not trying to feel sad), but taking the genre somewhere else is good. 🤘🤘
Maybe depressive black metal. But another way to put this that might fit more bands is Death Metal is about how cheap life is and Black Metal about how meaningless. 🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy That’s what I mean. The music is more unique and creative than people give it credit. I find black metal more interesting overall.
I enjoy both. If I had to pick my five favorites for DM: Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Entombed. BM: Bathory, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Emperor, Darkthrone.
Blackmetal and deathmetal are my fav genres. Blackdeath with little bit of doom is the best fusion ever, thats like the holy trinity haha as an asian guy living in germany i can comfirm blackmetal has a nazi problem and can be edgy af. Deathmetal can be so fuckin caveman shit, thats why some bands like blood incantaion really hook me up on deathmetal. the lyrical themes are spacy and psychedelic and it they have wizardry guitar riffs and solos.
The bit about not being able to ignore racism when you aren’t white is so real. I listen to a few of these bands (Burzum, Hateforest) but it annoys me to no end when a bunch of white guys are telling each other to not worry about racism in the community. It’s even more annoying when they pass it off as “just liking the music” when it’s blatantly obvious they only listen to bands that share their ideas. Seriously there is an ocean of black metal bands, especially new bands, that aren’t incel nazis putting out great music but it feels like they don’t get much recognition cuz they aren’t racist. I’m not an idiot lol I can tell when you’re just listing off nsbm bands to seem edgy. You don’t care about music, you’re isolated and want your stupid opinions to be validated by other weirdos With that all being said, I love both dm and bm. I don’t mind the raw production when it’s done right. The rawness only becomes bad for me when it makes the music borderline unlistenable (like the first blasphemy album, it sounds worse than the demo).
Indeed! An ocean of great bands and you chose this? It doesn't even sound good. I can at least understand ignoring principles for Pantera. But this raw NSBM? This definitely isn't just about liking the music.
Black metal. The instruments in death metal are so low you can't really hear it that loud like you do in black metal and a lot of black metal songs have the kind of riffs and solos similar to the old thrash metal. I like both though.
In the Beginning, I had the same problem with that poor production and bad sound but today I appreciate it. I stumbled from Heavy Metal to Speed and Trash, and finally to Death and Black metal for me it´s impossible to divide into good or bad. Death Metal surely is Heavier with the growl and the more groove-based Drums with a lot of double bases and Black Metal hits the Mark at high speed. The Topic of Satanical, Death, etc. can be also found in many Death Metal Bands. Even the usage of Syth like Nocturnus is already done in Death Metal.
To me, it depends on the song. There are some Death Metal songs that are heavier than some Black Metal song, but there are also some Black Metal that are heavier than some Death Metal songs.
I think the issue is targeted hatred. In death and black metal, everyone should be at the receiving end lyrics wise, not just targeting women and minorities
Agreed. And I'm not out here keeping a tally to make sure everyone is represented equally or some other such nonsense. But when a band's entire catalog goes one way... That's a lil sus.
Maybe we should be more specific, yes American death metal is brutal, but European death metal can be very melodic (Bolt Thrower, Unleashed, etc), same for black metal, Norwegian black metal lacks the riffs and the production, but other black metal can be very melodic and clean (Samael, Rotting Christ, etc)
interesting discussion. I also loved the Hath record last year, and I'm finding more and more that blackened death is where a lot of the most exciting things are happening in metal, though I'm partial to death like you. I also think it's right to point out both black metal's and death metal's unspoken issues. metal in general (bands and shows and community) should be more open to folks of all genders than it is. and the members of a subculture like black metal should do all they can to root out racism and discrimination, since that sh*t will rot and ultimately kill it...
Agreed. Black Metal vs Death Metal makes for a good title and discussion, but there are so many branching sub-genres that it would be impossible to compare them all. But for me the best metal is metal with black and or death as a prefix and/or a suffix to the label 😆🤘
Death Metal Vs Black Metal I choose Death Metal because of the level of professionalism and quality. Don't get me wrong I support all Metal. When it comes to Black Metal i still like old school Venom style 🤘🤘🤘
I like death metal better i dont have much like bands in black metal. For me death metal have much better riffs than black metal. But only death metal in the 80s and specially in the 90s
i agree that death metal is more consistantly good and black metal having highest highs and lowest lows but i disagree that black metal shouldnt have lofi production because then it would just be another metal genre nothing special but with the raw production you can really tell what genre youre listening.
I certainly agree that I don't want my black metal to have the digital clarity and machine perfect rhythm of Metalcore. I'm into raw and analog production. But I do want a minimum standard of fidelity. When it sounds washed out and inarticulate that's a no for me.
You are absolutely correct on everything you said, i feel like i rarely ever hear people describe it like you did. Your conclusion is exactly on point! Blackened death metal is the epitome of all metal combined from the evolution of its greatness. Blackened death metal is what a true metal head has always dreamed for, which is the heaviness from the the death and the evil from the black, throw in some symphony and opera here and there and you can have a master piece. Also you cant have a band anymore without dual vocals, you need the demon and warlock or else it sounds a little bland; atleast in my opinion. But anyone that says otherwise and call themselves metal heads i kinda disregard anything they say about metal.
Pointing out neo Nazis and R word songs as issues is fine. Just that there are many woke folks trying to get identity politics into metal, and that’s worse than both of those things, in my opinion. They want to change the things we love into their thing…then they will exclude everyone who doesn’t completely agree with their narrative. Just ask the table top gaming community about that one.
I mean I find it exhausting and annoying too when people are like "there isn't enough left handed ginger color blind representation in the melodic blackened power thrash scene" but .. worse than Nazis and the R word?!.... God damn!
I prefer the sound of Black Metal (except Death) but as a black guy that grew up listening to heavy metal, I obviously can't stand that nazi bullshit and satanism. This video is spot on
I generally agree. I find the aesthetics of black metal to be a lot more gimmicky, but the lyrics of black metal are way more serious than the general serial killer schlock of death metal.
a lotta black metal fans here, I prefer death metal especially old school death metal. suffocation/ effigy of the forgotten is a good example to technical death like necrophagist. thrash metal will always be the reason why I ventured to death metal. so it’s thrash til death!
I prefer death metal in 2023, cos i have not found a black metal album yet with really good production that can stay put on my phone to while listening most of the day, black metal albums for me are usually they come and go on my music player. But im willingly open for good black metal albums suggestions with good production, sounds raw, and still has that dark atmosphere. Thanks
You made such a good point about the separation of art and artist not being available to minorities within the scene. A lot of metal channels I follow don’t seem to understand this very basic point. Your perspective is very needed in the scene today.
Thank you. 🙏🤘
Wow
You'd think people wouldn't need an explanation why minorities (of whatever type) *can't* get down w Nazis.
As if the insecure desire to destroy other ppl minding their own biz is an equal viewpoint to those other ppl just fucking existing.
As if it's some kinda "both sides" thing lol.😂
Like no bro, we didn't start this fight and you cant agree to disagree with them because they literally have a problem with other ppl just existing.
I’m so glad you talked about this!
It’s such an open taboo
I found your video because my friend and I we discussing which genre is “faster” (it was getting very nerdy and musically theoretical)
In any case, neither of us are white, and we’ve had some VERY bad/weird experiences with other fans of black metal
Now, I tend to avoid interacting with other metal fans IRL until I know you’re cool
It’s really a shame because I can honestly say that most metal fans and artists I’ve met are really nice people, but it’s happened enough times that you gotta make sure
@@hapasiuhengalu7586stick with fucking knuckle dragger RAP and go away.
Cradle of Filths album Cruelty amd the Beast introduced me to black metal and ive loved black metal ever since but death metal is more brutal so it depends on my mood at the moment, love em both 👍
Behemoth, in my opinion, blends a beautiful combination of death, black, and even thrash to a degree. I could listen to them all day.
Agreed! The Satanist IMO is one of the greatest extreme metal albums ever. 🤘🤘
Do you know In Vain? They do a similar thing but they are much less heavy, kind of progressive. I especially liked their AEnigma album. And then there is also Belphegor that is even heavier then Behemoth.
@@Rexperto6454should check out azarath
Respect! I only like one song from Behemoth. Their Music is too weird for me but I like that they are straight
@@JohnDoe-fz7hz which song?
in short death metal sings about criminal activity and violence while black metal are actual criminals
😆😆🤘🤘
I like black metal, more than death metal
“It’s 2023 y’all, death metal should kill people of every gender!”
Truer words have never been spoken. 😆 🤘🏼
Thank you. 🙏🤘
Only 2023 exist more than two genders but the shirts they buy are still male or female
The worse genre in music if we can call music....What is the next level of that crap?? 🤮
I wanna voice like yours, because it so badass.
And my opinion on the bm and dm is: black metal has mysterious atmosphere, while death metal mercilesly throws you into a brutal chaotic gory massacre. Black metal - blade, Death metal - hammer. So they both brutal, but differently. And I prefer more death metal, for this heavy sound and riffs that smashing your head while you brutally headbanging. My favourite death metal band is Mortician. Abominated horrific low growled vocals, robotic cold sounding blastbeats, and absolute heavy bass and guitars makes me 😮 every time.
Thank you! And very well said. 🤘🤘
Smoke and drink all day in and out that works I promise 😉😉🤣🤣
@@JohnDoe-fz7hz I know 😔😌😆
@@JohnDoe-fz7hzright on brother.
Real good points about the "floor" and "ceiling", never thought of it that way.
Thank you! 🙏🤘
I've always loved that within metal there are such different genres. So much so that I never listen to Death Metal because I don't really like it, whereas I can listen to Black Metal ad nauseum and have the best time. Death metal has always felt sort of flat, cartoonish and "obvious" if that makes sense, whereas Black Metal, being more melodic and often atmospheric (dungeon synth woo) is more mysterious and transportive for me. Seeing Mayhem in Orange County a few years ago was the most spiritual live music experience I've had. Death Metal transports me to a Florida basement with chopped off limbs and crusty bongs. Not where I wanna astral project lol. To each their own!
Crusty bongs in Florida!!! Hahahahaha 😆
That's awesome.
Try swedish death metal then
@@ElohAraphel like Dissection? Love them
What dm bands you used to listen to?
@@ElohAraphelactually it's not death metal. Death metal should not be melodic because the origin of death metal is brutality and technique. It should evoke the feeling of smashing things with aggressive mechanical sound
Blackened Death Metal is the way to go. Behemoth and Belphegor and my god, the brilliance of Kanonenfieber
And Hath!!! 🤘🤘
I'm still getting into these genres so this video was very informative. Great work!
Thank you! 🙏🤘
try listening at: DEATH METAL VS PINK FLOYD THANKS
Please explore DSBM too. Psychonaut 4 and Dreariness are my favorites in that genre.
Yes. Please do DSBM nexxt. Love Me some d
Sbm. Both great bands btw !😺
That was an excellent appraisal of both genres. Both have their merits and downsides, I personally love thrash metal but over the last couple of years have really got into death metal. Black metal has been hit and miss but I still enjoy it.
Thrash metal forever! 🤘
I love both but if i would have to choose i would go with black metal. I've always liked that raw sound and the atmosphere especially atmospheric black metal its just so damn good, i also prefer satanism, paganism, nature and stuff like that over gore and blood.
Cheers!
Cheers! 🤘
Yeah and when black metal nails it. It's kinda hard to beat it.
this was so interesting to learn, thank you !
Thank you! 🙏🤘
seeing in youtube at: DEATH METAL VS PINK FLOYD
Can anyone tell me the name of the band and album at 12:11, please?
Gaerea - Mirage 🤘
Mirage by GAEREA🤘
Great video! I tend to like both depending on my mood.
The last couple of years I've gotten into tech-death, bands like Gorod, Zenith Passage, Soreption, Beyond Creation, First Fragment, Psycroptic, Decrepit Birth, etc...
What are your thoughts on tech-death????
Why hello Mr Baron 😁
Fallujah! 🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy Gorod!! 🤘🤘
There’s pros and cons to all genres. For myself I prefer death metal more than black metal because I find it fun. I can see why some people love black metal.
💯
But being serious tho if u had to choose one which would it be?
That would be tough but gun to my head I'd go death metal. I'd hate to make that pick because I really do think black metal has a higher ceiling... But there's just so much bad sounding black metal to wade through. Meanwhile I find mid death metal to still be pretty listenable.
Really good video dude well done
Thank you! 🙏🤘
Thanks for all the recommendations at the end! Personally I like black metal because I find the sound of death metal to be a bit too masculine. I guess the emotion in black metal speaks to me more.
Huh. I've never heard it put that way before. Thank you. That's very interesting.
@Heavy Metal Philosophy well as a newbie to the metal genre, that was just my first impression. Maybe death metal will grow on me haha
🤷 it's not for everyone, but I will say I got into DM first and black metal grew on me. It was an acquired taste for me. I just needed the right bands. I got into Behemoth first (blackened death) and last night I saw Rotting Christ live.
A lot of true kvlt BM folks will say that's not real BM but 🤷
I like what I like. 🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy omg you saw rotting christ live? I saw them just over a week ago. I'm assuming you saw Uada at the same concert then. I love those guys so much ☺️ I hope you enjoyed the concert too!
@@michipichi0 if you like the atmosphere more then try Death Doom, it's an easier listen than Pure death metal and you also get awesome all female bands like Konvent.
Wouldn't one consider Death high art? Chuck's vocals and his guitar playing are legendary. Spiritual healing, his cover of painkiller, spirit crusher, the list goes on. However, Chuck didn't do a lot of growling. And later his vocals got high pitched and he sounded similar to black metal vocalists. What do you think about Chuck and his vocal style? I sometimes feel like Death is more like blackened death metal, especially in sound of perseverance
Agreed. Death is a special band. I would argue they started the tech death and progressive death movements. For instance I would consider The Work by Rivers of Nihil to be high art. But I wouldn't call that purely death metal either.
"Death metal lacks emotions"
Cattle Decapitation: -Hold my beer...
Yes!!! 🤘🤘
Hey man thanks for mentioning the minority/non-white fans, as a young Latina metal head it’s very refreshing to see people like us being mentioned because we have definitely gave huge contributions to many genres such as metal. Awesome video all in all, earned a new sub. 🖤💪🏽
Indeed! Thank you and welcome aboard! 🙏🤘
True. Peter Sandoval, Jesse Pintado, Brian Fajardo, Tom Araya, Dave Lombardo, the classic Sepultura guys, Sarcófago, a bunch of other Brazilians, the whole Colombian scene and some of Chile have been world-class latinos.
6:35 have you been at once such concert? I think you'd be surprised how little people might care.
I have an especial love for Black Metal as it is the genre that got me into Metal in the first place. I love me some Death Metal as well, but there's just something about the dark ambiance of good Black Metal that really does it for me. That being said, you have to sift through a lot of mediocrity in both camps to find the real gems since there's an oversaturation of bands kicking around online these days. I've always been of the opinion that the most memorable bands, Black or Death, are the ones that are able to transcend the limitations of genre. Each genre has a bunch of constituent parts that makes it what it is, but the best bands seem able to assemble those parts in a unique and inspiring way.
I think you hit the nail on the head re: Blackened Death Metal, though. I think the best new bands are the ones that defy easy categorization and draw from the best aspects of extreme Metal. A lot of emerging bands seem to be students of Metal as a whole, and it really shows. I, for one, am definitely here for this new, genre-bending age.
💯
The best is when the label black and/or death is a prefix and/or suffix to their genre 😆🤘
I prefer Black Metal. Death Metal is too chaotic for me. I like the repetitive nature and more atmospheric approach of Black Metal.
As for the NSBM thing... That's honestly a minority. Most Black Metal isn't like that.
Yea I probably should've pointed that out. The misogyny in death metal is also a minority. It's just enough to be weird. Like... Do any other genres of music have enough to get a genre distinction with the letters NS in front of it?
@@heavymetalphilosophy Well there's N*zi Punk 😉. Which probably is a bigger genre than the NSBM thing. But I guess since both Punk and Black Metal (2nd wave at least) started out as a protest against the established order they share that aspect of it. And the obsession with runes also plays a part in attracting the wrong crowd I guess.
Also let's not forget certain acts within the neo-folk genre.
Lately I've been listening to tons of War/Bestial Metal. I go into different moods and my ear changes. That's one of the many things about Metal that I love so much!🤘
Yes!! Metal for every mood. 🤘🤘
“Death metal should kill every gender” I’m pretty sure they do, and always have, I don’t know if I would call it misogyny because they don’t actually promote sexist views but I will admit it is a bit weird that if you don’t have anything to say about the world or hate on religion or the government or whatever, the default lyrics are often the same as Tomb of the mutilated, but let’s be real how many of us actually read or even care about the lyrics for death metal. The thing is not every band that sings about gory stuff focuses on violating women in their songs, usually I find with a lot of things people tend to focus on and make it an issue when there’s women involved, just look at horror films, people always claim oh it’s mostly women that die in horror films, yes there are a few films where more women die either because of say like evil dead 1 because the cast was three women and two men, or something like the New York ripper where the killer exclusively kills women but in real life serial killers usually have an oddly specific victim profile. If you actually sit there and count victim demographics in horror films like the channel dead meat, most horror films it’s usually pretty evenly split or it’s mostly men that die. Another example would be body image we always here complaints about unrealistic body image for women in media, yet there are quite a few for men too, but you never hear about it, but I guess the reason for that is most men, including myself don’t give a shit, jeez I guess that tells you that women are more vain than men are! I’m just kidding there are lots of really vain men out there.
Prefer Death Metal personally but my first metal gig was Mayhem last year, and it was Fantastic!!
Right! Great that we don't have to choose. I saw Dark Funeral open for Cannibal Corpse last year. Did I prefer Cannibal? Yes. Was Dark Funeral fun to watch? Also yes. 🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy Thats the great thing, both have amazing offers, and in different ways. I think you hit it on the head, Black Metal can be art, Death Metal, no matter what subgenre is great entertainment. Favourites of each would be Deicide/Bolt Thrower/Dying Fetus, Anaal Nathrakh, Marduk
hey im looking to get into black metal but i have never listened to the classics or 2000's albums can you give me some quickfire essential black metal listens. death metal fan
I'd recommend getting into blackened death metal first. It's more familiar but will introduce you to the elements of black metal.
Behemoth's album The Satanist is a masterpiece. If you like that then try venturing into the more pure black metal like Darkthrone and Gorgoroth. It can be an acquired taste because like I said in the episode they purposely make the recordings sound bad.
But even if it's not your thing, some modern black metal bands are leaving that true kvlt bullshit at the door and making quality music. Rotting Christ, Carach Angren, White Ward, Gaerea etc.
@@heavymetalphilosophy thank you! now i know where to start.
11:05 I appreciate you pointing this out even though you said you're biased toward death metal. I've felt that in the last 15 years black metal has been the catalyst for so much experimental and groundbreaking music. I still love death metal as well but I love to see genres pushed to their limit and subverted.
Agreed! I feel Rivers of Nihil and Horrendous come close to doing this for death metal but black metal still winds up being a bit wilder.
try listening at: DEATH METAL VS PINK FLOYD
So what’s your personal favourite of genre and band?
Depends on the day. Some days I like the groovy death metal bands like 200 Stab Wounds. Some days I want something a little weird. When I'm in a black metal mood I'm typically more into the progressive stuff. So like Dødeimsgard.
One of my all time favorites is this new band called Hath. Filthy, groovy, proggy blackened death. Check out their latest All That Was Promised. 🤌🤌
@@heavymetalphilosophy thanks for your kind reply and recommendation of HATH, I love them!!, however I personally like anaal nathrakh when I’m in black metal mood, their music blend of black,death,grindcore, and industrial which is produced so damn heavy and no band heaviest than Anaal Nathrakh so far. For death metal I love all American bands.
@@zaihasrulikhwanmohdzurki8043 Anaal Nathrakh does indeed rule!
Very informative brother
Thank you! 🙏🤘
Cannibal Corpse's Gallery of Suicide is oddly atmospheric for a death metal band. Except that, most of Death's music from Human onwards was very atmospheric and therapeutic. RIP Chuck
Great points! 🤘🤘
Thanks for the compare/contrast. I came into black & death metal sideways via crosses with other metal genres like symphonic or folk, so this is the first clear breakdown of the genres I've gotten. Now the difference is immediately clear even in those crossover genres-like all right, I can see how Zeal & Ardor or Myrkur branched off black metal and Fleshgod Apocalypse or Aether Realm branched off death metal. I'm more well-versed in death metal so I'm checking out some of your black metal recs-there's a lot more sax in False Light than I was expecting lol. I see what you mean about the higher artistic potential: death metal can be *skilled*, but black metal feels *meticulous*.
I appreciate the comments on fascism & sexism in the genres. I don't want to go to a show if I think the band and its audience would look at my friends and me like we're subhuman. Lyrics about cartoony horror like satanism & gore hit different than lyrics that feel like an excuse for the artists to share what they really think.
Thank you. I'm glad to be of service. And yea, why would I give my money to people that hate me?
Death metal makes statements, whereas black metal paints pictures.
Death metal is like "sit down, shut up, and listen! I'm unhappy!! Do you understand?!!", whereas black metal is more like "am I happy? Here, let me tell you a little story and show you a few things so you can see them for what they really are, and you tell me whether you think I'm happy or not."
That's a great way to put it! 🤘🤘
@heavymetalphilosophy thanks for the feedback! 🤘
Also, if I were to make an analogy with another genre, I would say that DM and BM are to metal what horrorcore and underground gangsta rap, respectively, are to hip hop. They both fall under the umbrella of "extreme [metal/hip hop]", but according to somewhat different definitions of "extreme"
Hey cool man!!! Looks like birds of a feather we very awesomely flock together. That said it's safe to say I love everything you have expressed!! Your over all out look on not just this topic, but a vast amount learning that you don't always go with the flow & you speak your thoughts & mind beautifully.. Thank you, sincerely Lu. ❤🤘🙏🌿❤️✌️
Thank you. 🙏🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy Very welcome & my pleasure 🙏🤘✌️🌺
Great analysis, though I might be biased since I agree with all your points!
Great minds! 🤜🤛
Great video! Just subed. 🤘
I will always lean towards Black Metal. The atmosphere and emotion is what I connect with. With that being said,Blackened Death Metal is the best genre. I love atmosphere but as a guitarist i love my solos.
Thank you and welcome aboard! 🙏🤘
Good answers, actually.
Thank you! 🙏🤘
Black Metal is my bread and butter any day of the week. I like the riffs and atmosphere more in black metal than in death metal.
🤘🤘
Hey do metals listen to air suply band i mean listen to kinds of music like love song while sleeping?
Death metal parent genres: heavy metal, thrash metal, extreme metal, hardcore punk
Black metal parent genres: heavy metal, death metal, thrash metal, extreme metal, speed metal, nwobhm, shock rock
🤔 I can get behind this.
I really agree with your conclusion. Good black metal like immortal or enslaved seem to shrug off all the stereotype evil without skill crap. At the heart of winter versus deathcrush would be a joke :)
Thank you! 🙏🤘
4:20 No! You want that wall of sound in black metal and organic production. The antithesis would be overproduced, sterile sounding albums which simply doesn't suit black metal and is detrimental to the atmosphere
I don't look at it like either or. I look at it more like a spectrum. I think black metal bands can record punchy and crisp without all the static... And they can do that without doing the sterile and robotic recording that metalcore bands do.
There are so many examples like Wolves in the Throne Room or Uada. It doesn't have to be purposely bad recording.
The best? Blasting Death/Black!
- Myrkskog
- early Zyklon
- Infernal War (the best of all!)
- Arkhon Infaustus
- pre 2014 Behemoth
I don't mind the lyrics. I like the art behind it being like a horror movie. The songs I write mix the two lol I'm not in a band but I do it for my own amusement.
i love both genres. but i definitly prefer black metal over death.
As long as we love metal! Respect. 🤘🤘
I love all genres of metal for different reasons. None are better or heavier than others. To me it’s all about context and situation. I feel like I listen to different genres of metal during different seasons.
I will say, I dont support bands/artists with people who are objectively reprehensible humans.
Some music is fun, some is artistically beautiful. Some is both. Some music is just good background music.
I’m a fan of many genres of music btw, metal is just my favorite by far. When I write my own music, I take inspiration from all places. I dont play just metal, I play many things, and sometimes combine them.
I like doing vocals when it comes to metal, but dont enjoy playing on my instruments. I like making more ambient softer stuff. Sometimes I like making EDM style music on my PC with MIDI’s. It’s therapeutic for me to be able to express myself in ways other than just aggressive music. While I can relax to it, and it’s my favorite, it’s not what I want all the time. Metal is a good way to channel negative emotions and tough topics, but I like to channel my positive emotions too.
Respect. 🤜🤛🤘🤘
Black Metal all the way. I listen to pretty much every type of metal except straight Death Metal, and I think I would prefer to listen to another non-metal genre altogether than Death Metal. All my favorite bands are some metal subgenre, but Death Metal is so... uninteresting.... Nothing really happens in the songs. People say the instrumentation is technical, but hardly, and bobbing your head to it is forced
Death Metal is crap, and I'm talking those early 90's legendary bands- I'm sorry but it all sounds like some low-quality stuff you'd expect to hear while shooting heroin at a local punk show that only 25 people went to. Hardly ever a chord progression, just open strings chugging with a pinch harmonic every two bars. 16th notes on the bass drum the whole way through and you're good. It's really just bad music.
Heroin? 😆 Damn. I've always thought of DM as more coke music. 😆
Listen to Archspire and Death
If we're talking 2022 blackened death metal releases, Altars Ablaze - Life Desecration was an absolutely crushing album. Most/all of the guys from Heaving Earth and similarly amazing.
Gonna have to check that out. Thanks! 🙏🤘
The first black metal band I’ve ever heard was Behemoth, and since then I was hooked. I like metal to be atmospheric. It makes me feel like I am somewhere else in limbo. My favorite sub genre is depressive suicidal black metal, specially one-man bands, who don’t make any money and whose lives are sh*t like leviathan. I also prefer bands that have a member that has committed suicide like Mayhem (Dead), and even bands like Nirvana (Kurt Cobain), Liking Park (Chester Bennington), among others.
Behemoth was also my entry point. I heard The Satanist and I was 🤯 I had to know more
Damn your voice is deep! Awesome
😆 thank you. 🙏🤘
IMO Death Metal is the peak as its the best to workout to. Really pumps you up so you can tap into the inner beast and destroy the weights
💯 💪💪
You’ll probably dig wrath of logarius. They’re a brutal blackened death metal. Super fast stuff
I'm in! 🤘🤘
Yes, blackened death all the way! It learned you CAN have your cake and eat it too!
Right! 🤘🤘
I am all about the chase for catchy heavy as hell riffs,Death Metal no contest.Was teenager during 80's listening to Thrash and moved to Death Metal,always felt Black Metal was a retrograde musical step and i don't find it that heavy.Black Metal seems to attract a younger crowd going through the emotional turmoil of adolescence.
Fair assessment. 🤘
I've never heard a better argument of us minorities not having the luxury of separating the artist from the art. Being a black man, I DEFINITELY couldn't show up and say, " I'm just here for the riffs."
I love Black Metal, for all the reasons you said. But I always have to be vigilant.
Thank you, Jon. This was a great, thoughtful exploration of my two favorite metal genres. 🤘
Thank you! 🙏🤘
Whatever music you listen to is valid if it touches your inner self and leaves you in state of awe or guides you on path of creative freedom and audio ecstasy
💯🤘🤘
The way you explain Death and Black Metal is cool songs must be about power and Metal and aggression but not negatively.If you get what i say lets keep lyrics fictional mostly and dont act out negatively and just love Metal music.😂 🤟
Although this wasn’t the main point of the video, thank you so much for calling out the N@Z! problem in black metal. As a mixed race person I struggle with my identity a lot, and one of the main reason why I like metal is because it rebels against a world that forces us into status quo structures and social contracts signed not by us but by our ancestors. Given metal’s overall themes of liberation (especially in extreme metal) it’s interesting that there’s a sect of metal which vouches for ideologies that are antithetical to the genre’s tradition of liberation and a critical analysis of past and present societies.
Couldn't have said it better. Well said. 🤘
I'm racist af, but that's not gonna get me to listen to BM. That said, either find bands that don't have racial overtones or ignore that genre altogether. They have valid reasons for their beliefs, and it's not logically antithetical to metal. It's rebellion against a world that goes against nature and tribalism, which we have deeply ingrained in our psyche.
@@kkech1 an ideology which restricts the free movement of peoples and the right to free association of individuals based on such an arbitrary characteristic as race (a concept with legal and social roots beginning in the 17th century which don’t even revolve around concrete ethnic categories) is arguably just as antithetical to the state of nature. Just because you feel racial animosity doesn’t mean every human has some innate tribal allegiance, and tribalism does not necessarily equal racism and nationalism at all. In prehistoric times for example, tribes of entirely different SPECIES of humans coexisted. Your conception of tribalism is completely flawed and ahistoric so don’t pull some half-assed appeal to nature.
@@kkech1 But yes, technically everyone can express their beliefs musically in any way they see fit. I do not argue against that, but racism is logically antithetical to the traditions of metal. Ask Ozzy, Bruce Dickinson, Dave Mustaine, etc what they think of NSBM and they will completely reject it. I have their lyrics as evidence to that claim.
There are some good points made in the video, especially with regard to the more disfavorable aspects of death metal and black metal, but there are certain sentiments I can't at all agree with that come from both the video and the comments section. As someone who's listened to death metal from early adolescence to adulthood, I consider it one of the more diverse subgenres of metal. While it's true that death metal started off with some silly shlocky tropes, that can't be said for death metal well after the 90's and early 2000's. You don't see as much of that type of schlocky, gorey DM save for in micro genres of death metal where it's the whole shtick such as in brutal death metal/slam. There's a lot of death metal could have themes that range from philosophy, war, religion, to space and sci-fi, and micro genres like prog-death, death-doom, techdeath, melodeath, symphonic death metal, grind microgenres, epic death metal, deathcore and more niche microgenres like neoclassical death metal, and even death metalcs own atmospheric microgenre. Whereas with black metal, it started off with trying to sound and seem "evil" by being antichristian and occult, particularly with themes of satanism which is in itself just as shlocky as early DM themes.Thing is, that isn't unique to black metal, it's been done to death by metal in general. (With DM trying to sound evil as well just in a different way, and you having some death metal bands like Deicide having the same blasphemous shtick that black metal did, way before the black metal scene in certain places like Scandinavia becoming well established yet). Personally I feel like the black metal scene shot itself in the foot by having purists and conservative minded fans and musicians trying to force black metal to have the same sound, same themes and such due having the idea that bringing something new to the table often was just be copycats of each other and to double down and try to out-edge every other band out there, rather focus on their own musicmaking. (The most notorious example of this is Mayhem members claiming they weren't inspired by this or that bandmeanwhile you see one member wearing Bathory patches and another going to risk in a Venom band shirt.) I didn't really pick up black metal until much later when the subgenre was much more diverse, and now Im a big fan of atmoblack or other similar micro genres, but I've always been listening to death metal and I still am. Though I'm just like you, where I like blackened death metal the most(Imo Behemoth found the sound that clicked for them when they started doing blackened death metal, and I hope they don't ever change that, The Satanist and Evangelion slap.) I had a good laugh at you mentioning the whole thing with the more shlocky metal coming off as misogynistic as well, because I definitely noticed how much more often it's women being talked about getting hacked apart in death metal than any other group of people.
I largely agree with you analysis here. Things start to get more complicated as we dive deeper into the sub-genres. For example depressive black metal has a totally unique culture unto themselves. It's not for me personally (I'm not trying to feel sad), but taking the genre somewhere else is good. 🤘🤘
I heard someone say once that Death Metal is about murder and Black Metal is about suicide. Don't know how accurate that is.
Maybe depressive black metal. But another way to put this that might fit more bands is Death Metal is about how cheap life is and Black Metal about how meaningless. 🤘🤘
Both are descended from Thrash metal. Death metal is too derivative of thrash though. At least the black metal bands put more of a unique twist on it.
I love me some death metal, but I won't argue with that point. Black metal definitely went in way more different directions.
@@heavymetalphilosophy That’s what I mean. The music is more unique and creative than people give it credit. I find black metal more interesting overall.
I enjoy both. If I had to pick my five favorites for DM: Death, Morbid Angel, Obituary, Entombed. BM: Bathory, Celtic Frost/Hellhammer, Emperor, Darkthrone.
You have excellent taste. 🤘🤘
Dude could be Sean Waltman's (X Pac's) brother.
😆
I would prefer death metal
I tend to agree 😁🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy I just feel more soul with death metal but I love black metal two
try listening at: DEATH METAL VS PINK FLOYD
@@euronymous2487 will do
Blackmetal and deathmetal are my fav genres. Blackdeath with little bit of doom is the best fusion ever, thats like the holy trinity haha as an asian guy living in germany i can comfirm blackmetal has a nazi problem and can be edgy af. Deathmetal can be so fuckin caveman shit, thats why some bands like blood incantaion really hook me up on deathmetal. the lyrical themes are spacy and psychedelic and it they have wizardry guitar riffs and solos.
Agreed. I'm also Asian and I work for a German company for my day job. Blood Incantation rules! 🤘
Have you listened to Havohej yet? You will love it.
I did this morning. You are correct. I love it. Last release 2019. You think they will release more soon?
The bit about not being able to ignore racism when you aren’t white is so real. I listen to a few of these bands (Burzum, Hateforest) but it annoys me to no end when a bunch of white guys are telling each other to not worry about racism in the community. It’s even more annoying when they pass it off as “just liking the music” when it’s blatantly obvious they only listen to bands that share their ideas. Seriously there is an ocean of black metal bands, especially new bands, that aren’t incel nazis putting out great music but it feels like they don’t get much recognition cuz they aren’t racist. I’m not an idiot lol I can tell when you’re just listing off nsbm bands to seem edgy. You don’t care about music, you’re isolated and want your stupid opinions to be validated by other weirdos
With that all being said, I love both dm and bm. I don’t mind the raw production when it’s done right. The rawness only becomes bad for me when it makes the music borderline unlistenable (like the first blasphemy album, it sounds worse than the demo).
Indeed! An ocean of great bands and you chose this? It doesn't even sound good. I can at least understand ignoring principles for Pantera. But this raw NSBM? This definitely isn't just about liking the music.
skull please seeing in youtube at: DEATH METAL VS PINK FLOYD
"And Jvdaists (all athr theists jast tha saem) haw a missandrj problemm."
Black metal. The instruments in death metal are so low you can't really hear it that loud like you do in black metal and a lot of black metal songs have the kind of riffs and solos similar to the old thrash metal. I like both though.
I like both too 😁🤘🤘
In the Beginning, I had the same problem with that poor production and bad sound but today I appreciate it. I stumbled from Heavy Metal to Speed and Trash, and finally to Death and Black metal for me it´s impossible to divide into good or bad. Death Metal surely is Heavier with the growl and the more groove-based Drums with a lot of double bases and Black Metal hits the Mark at high speed. The Topic of Satanical, Death, etc. can be also found in many Death Metal Bands. Even the usage of Syth like Nocturnus is already done in Death Metal.
try listening at: DEATH METAL VS PINK FLOYD
Not Black, nor Death, the best is USPM.
I prefer Black over death.
Black dhalia murder is another notable mention of an amazing death metal band
💯🤘
Immolation has the best of the two worlds it has riffs and atmosphere
Very true. Immolation rules! 🤘🤘
To me, it depends on the song.
There are some Death Metal songs that are heavier than some Black Metal song, but there are also some Black Metal that are heavier than some Death Metal songs.
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I'm probably biased because I'm not a fan of black metal so I'm going to say death metal
Death Metal forever! 🤘🤘
I think the issue is targeted hatred. In death and black metal, everyone should be at the receiving end lyrics wise, not just targeting women and minorities
Agreed. And I'm not out here keeping a tally to make sure everyone is represented equally or some other such nonsense. But when a band's entire catalog goes one way... That's a lil sus.
Death metal should kill people of every gender?
Ok, listen to Marduk,setherial, funeral mist and 1349
I've only heard of Marduk so thanks for the recs. I'll check those out. 🙏🤘
Maybe we should be more specific, yes American death metal is brutal, but European death metal can be very melodic (Bolt Thrower, Unleashed, etc), same for black metal, Norwegian black metal lacks the riffs and the production, but other black metal can be very melodic and clean (Samael, Rotting Christ, etc)
Great point! I love Rotting Christ. 🤘🤘
And obviously Bolt Thrower is the best! 🤘🤘
"5:22 Caew menn mit avs tha caew"
interesting discussion. I also loved the Hath record last year, and I'm finding more and more that blackened death is where a lot of the most exciting things are happening in metal, though I'm partial to death like you. I also think it's right to point out both black metal's and death metal's unspoken issues. metal in general (bands and shows and community) should be more open to folks of all genders than it is. and the members of a subculture like black metal should do all they can to root out racism and discrimination, since that sh*t will rot and ultimately kill it...
Agreed. Black Metal vs Death Metal makes for a good title and discussion, but there are so many branching sub-genres that it would be impossible to compare them all.
But for me the best metal is metal with black and or death as a prefix and/or a suffix to the label 😆🤘
Death Metal Vs Black Metal I choose Death Metal because of the level of professionalism and quality.
Don't get me wrong I support all Metal.
When it comes to Black Metal i still like old school Venom style 🤘🤘🤘
Yes. Support all metal! 🤘🤘
I like death metal better i dont have much like bands in black metal. For me death metal have much better riffs than black metal. But only death metal in the 80s and specially in the 90s
i agree that death metal is more consistantly good and black metal having highest highs and lowest lows but i disagree that black metal shouldnt have lofi production because then it would just be another metal genre nothing special but with the raw production you can really tell what genre youre listening.
I certainly agree that I don't want my black metal to have the digital clarity and machine perfect rhythm of Metalcore. I'm into raw and analog production. But I do want a minimum standard of fidelity. When it sounds washed out and inarticulate that's a no for me.
@ yeah i dont want it to sound like war metal i think thats a bit too far but maybe like transylvanian hunger
@@simoboi695 Great comparison! 🤘🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophy 🤘🤘
so who is the band Jon won't mention? i.e. " eyes rolled back in her head, cant remember the fun we had"
You are absolutely correct on everything you said, i feel like i rarely ever hear people describe it like you did. Your conclusion is exactly on point! Blackened death metal is the epitome of all metal combined from the evolution of its greatness. Blackened death metal is what a true metal head has always dreamed for, which is the heaviness from the the death and the evil from the black, throw in some symphony and opera here and there and you can have a master piece. Also you cant have a band anymore without dual vocals, you need the demon and warlock or else it sounds a little bland; atleast in my opinion. But anyone that says otherwise and call themselves metal heads i kinda disregard anything they say about metal.
Ha! Thank you. 🙏🤘
Pointing out neo Nazis and R word songs as issues is fine. Just that there are many woke folks trying to get identity politics into metal, and that’s worse than both of those things, in my opinion. They want to change the things we love into their thing…then they will exclude everyone who doesn’t completely agree with their narrative. Just ask the table top gaming community about that one.
I mean I find it exhausting and annoying too when people are like "there isn't enough left handed ginger color blind representation in the melodic blackened power thrash scene" but .. worse than Nazis and the R word?!.... God damn!
5:50 "..saem, aparrenntlj, asz tha Jvvkrain cantrj."
I prefer the sound of Black Metal (except Death) but as a black guy that grew up listening to heavy metal, I obviously can't stand that nazi bullshit and satanism. This video is spot on
Thank you! 🙏🤘
Death metal is heavier, but black metal is more raw and real where as death metal is mostly gimmicky
I generally agree. I find the aesthetics of black metal to be a lot more gimmicky, but the lyrics of black metal are way more serious than the general serial killer schlock of death metal.
Well said 🤘🏼🤘🏼🤘🏼
Thank you! 🙏🤘
Not all black metal is technical
True
And then there's "war metal", which stands above them both.
in b4 "but it's just black/death/grind fusion with satanic or military imagery"
New Antichrist Siege Machine tomorrow! 🤘🤘
It’s not hard to find a death metal song about a guy being the victim. Just look at the lyrics of Remaimed…💀
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Crying about nazis and misogyny in metal is definitely poser behavior
a lotta black metal fans here, I prefer death metal especially old school death metal.
suffocation/ effigy of the forgotten
is a good example to technical death like necrophagist.
thrash metal will always be the reason why I ventured to death metal. so it’s thrash til death!
Thrash metal forever! 🤘
Blackened deathcore heavier than both. There ya go lol
Haha yea!!! 🤘🤘
Not a real genre
I prefer death metal in 2023, cos i have not found a black metal album yet with really good production that can stay put on my phone to while listening most of the day, black metal albums for me are usually they come and go on my music player. But im willingly open for good black metal albums suggestions with good production, sounds raw, and still has that dark atmosphere. Thanks
Yes, production is a big issue for me with Black Metal too. I really enjoyed Heimdall by Enslaved. 🤘
@@heavymetalphilosophyBut that's is the point of black metal. It's not supposed to be good production.