Never seen or heard of this idea before, and I've taken a keen interest in both hawt and vawt technology over the past few years. Excellent to see you put your theory to the test, and impressive looking results. Thanks for taking the time to make this video and for sharing your design and theory. It's something I shall be exploring, as I'm intending to install a small turbine at home in the fairly near future.
I love VAWT and recognise the simplicity of many drag type turbines. I'm also a fan (pardon the pun) of direct driving the generator. But drag turbines will always rotate slower than the wind at their tips while lift turbines move faster than the wind at their tips. And as such, drag turbines create an engineering challenges on a direct drive generator that needs to get enough rotational velocity so as to generate a usefull voltages. It can be done but I'm just pointing out that it is something that needs to be considered when engineering a project like this. Hopefully with less weight and higher rotations for a given wind, one can save money on the support structure and put more money into large diameter axial flux generators with powerfull magnets. Alternatly, Here is a thought. Put two counter rotating turbines on the same shaft. The bottom turbine has coils attached and slip rings with carbon brushes on the shaft to collect current from the coils on the turbine, while the top turbine has magnets attached. This will have the magnets pass the coils at roughly double the rate than if the coils were on a stator. This increase in the rate of change of the magnetic field increasing the voltage generated from a given coil with its chariceristic internal resistance. Doubling the voltage alows one to half the current and get the same power. But it's actually better than that. The efficency improves because half the current × the resistance in the coils halfs the voltage drop due to Internal resistance and half the voltage drop × half the current = 1/4 of the original power lost due to internal resistance. For example. A coil having 0.5 ohms and 10amps of current flowing through it has a voltage drop of 5v from it's open circuit voltage. And 5v×10amps=50 watts lost. But if one draws just 5amps then 5amps×0.5ohms = just 2.5 volts dropped from open circuit voltage. And 2.5v×5amps = 12.5watts lost due to internal resistance. The above highlights why it's vitally important to get higher voltage and lower the resistance in the coils.
I applaud your pioneering and innovating thinking! This is how new ideas are proven or disproven. I have been doing a LOT of reading on VAWTs and for the sake of simplicity, have decided to go with the "traditional" Savonius design of a split and offset cylinder. While I really like your concept of lowering the coefficient of drag on the leeward side of the rotor, it introduces an element that will need maintenance/replacement. Would be interesting to see what the "real world" data is by constructing one of your turbines with rigid blades and comparing the output to one with fabric collapsible blades. This is in no way intended to be a negative criticism of your implementation... everybody should weigh the costs, complexity, and durability when choosing a design. Keep up the great thinking and experimenting!!!
Thank you for your comment. I am making a small effort to stop the corruption of American English. Years ago I started a job in the plant engineering department of an electric utility company. In a meeting I used the English pronunciation of the word "turbine". This caused some laughter and good natured ridicule as they informed me of the American pronunciation. In the USA engineers that work with turbines pronounce it with the silent e.
EXCELLENT INFORMATION AND DESIGN, THIS MAY BE THE BREAKTHROUGH AIR POWER NEEDED. I HAVE A DESIGN FOR A BLADED ONE WITH A SPRING LOADED MOUNT THAT BENDS BACK IN HEAVY WIND, NO BREAKING NEEDED JUST A TENSION ADJUSTMENT ON THE SPRING THAT PULLS IT BACK TO THE UPRIGHT POSITION..
Beautiful thing you made. Was thinking how to use it on a boat. There are few thoughts: 1. Moving fabric (collapsing) blades like that will tear apart quickly regardless of what they are made of. Practice shows that free waving fabrics do not last. 2. Metal closing blades on a free shaft will probably break fast as well. These will break off at the shaft, but probably it is a best bet anyway. 3. For harder (heavier) blade materials centrifugal force will not allow them to collapse properly. Maybe a stopper which does not allow blades to swing out completely might be weighted with the blade itself to balance out centrifugal force (and there will be plenty of it with 40 knot wind). 4. Balancing lower and upper parts, reducing drag will probably be the hardest challenge, because moving blades will change weight distribution. Maybe mount it on a bent turning shaft heeled to the side with blades out.
Thank you for your comment. On sail boats flapping (luffing) is prevented by stiffeners (stays) that are sewn into the trailing edge of the sail. The cloth sails will eventually wear out as will any other flexing material other than rubber. look at how vehicle tires flex. A rubberized material may last a very long time. There is the possibility for much improvement in sail materials.
Note that in collapsing a cup, air that was inside it is forced out. While It takes energy to collaps a cup pushing the air inside it out of the cup, the escaping air provides some thrust. This thrust should be providing some torque on the side 180 degrees from the side where the cup opens. This theory should be testable with an open cup that when the wind is turned on, the cup is collapsed and if I'm right causes the turbine to begin rotating.
Thanks for posting this video Jim. I currently have 5 high powered fans that I need to run with computers that have a high wind output, my wife often puts her washed clothes in front of them to dry. Anyway I was thinking of building a VAWT to generate electricity from these fans so it can charge my lithium batteries so I get a bit of power back and dont use as much electricity. Once again thanks Jim
Brilliant idea I can imagine different materials will produce different results and definitely going to try this one...I just want to add to this I can see this being a very brilliant way of producing power on a larger scale and also be brilliant to scare the birds away from my seeds in the garden👍
Yes what struck me was my experience when I started windsurfing in the early 1980, sails where made of nylon an where unsupported apart from the mast and boom section and not very efficient. As the technology improved batons where added to the sails and by the late 90’s sails were transformed and more sophisticated using light weight batons combined with Mylar films which maintained the shape of a wing at all time, making them very efficient. My thinking was to use the same principle but pivoting each sail (wing) around the circumference limiting the aperture on leeward side for maximum capture and using the aerodynamic foil on the windward return for dynamic efficiency. Perhaps I’m getting too complicated with my suggestion but in my mind it seems to work with your model. I really enjoy your videos. 👍
Thanks for the information on materials. I have a working model of a unit with sails only (no barrel in the center). By allowing gaps between the sails the wind can pass thru and fill the sails on the leeward side as well as on the windward side. I am working on a video to show this.
Brilliant idea to solve the big problem most vertical axis generators have in common. The only drawback is , flapping materials tend to fatigue easily like flags . Maybe something like a thin lightweight rubber as used in push bike innertubes may be better. (A bit like heart valves... lightweight and strong.
@@Jimscoolstuff Hi Jim, I try to explain with Google Translate's help: For upper and lower circle I'm think to use fiberglass, I can make it myself. For pole I can use simply iron, with bearings and for collaps elements I think to use a synthetic material, synthetic fabric, which is very weather resistant. Do you have any suggest for dimensions and number of "sails" ?
On performance, your probably getting higher than you realize. When working out a turbines COP in a given wind, the typical cross section is based on the diameter of the rotor×height. But with collapsing cups, one might argue the actual cross section is smaller which sugest the COP is better than if the cross section area is calculated like cups that don't collaps.
Very clever! Should make turbines much more efficient on lower rpms. Especially if the "sails" are lightweight. Instead of sail cloth, there are some fabrics that are elastic, but elastic only to a certain degree. It would give more torque on slightly higher wind, and would still collapse on the return side.
I have found a permanent magnet motor from a front load Whirlpool washing machine, took the whole drum and surrounding plastic. Spun by hand it made over 12 V AC when turned with a drill it made 168V AC looking to use your sail idea to attach to the drum and make a VAWG by trimming most of the plastic surround off and mounting with the remaining housing
If you create a wind tunnel that positions the fan at the exit end of the experiment, it will pull air through evenly rather than push air spirally, which would make the test more efficient.
Hello Jim, you have presented some interesting ideas, One thing I did wonder was how practical cloth would be in a working version due to external elements such as rain and snow? Windsurfing sails are made using Mylar films which are very strong. While expensive I thought this might be more resistant to the elements.
Thanks for the question. Flags fly in rain and snow. I think they are usually made on nylon. Some research is needed on the best fabric for the job. Perhaps a flexible plastic sheet could be used. I think there are a lot of possibilities. I hope others will make some suggestions based on their experiences.
Rain and snow wouldn't be a problem. The sun is, UV to be precise. In addition to strong hits of wind on material. I was thinking about something similar but with magnets on thin plate sheets.
@@zepsujtosam07 I agree with you, main problem is UV and the wind forces. Had sun shade sails made of nylon. Wind hits it, tearing it, even with springs to soften the tearing. After 3-4 years the material is done. So finding the best material for the sails is a main point here. I hope Jim is going to get it right. The idea is phenomenal and very promising.
sorry if this question has been asked already, Jim ... How is this design when it comes to noise issues? Will the "blades" flap and make lots of noise?
This is great, never seen this design before, sounds very logical. The only problem is the material and it's dimensions and how it can withstand the tension and all the flexing forth and back. The best design I have seen where there is almost no lost from the wind hitting on the "wrong" half is by using outer layer of blades that directs the wind only to the "right" half side. That should be much simpler to do.
Brilliant. One thought on how you could make the paper out of stiff aluminum. If you’re interested, contact me. Question. I have a thermal chimney on the south side of a hill in the desert. The chimney starts out wide horizontally (not much height) at the bottom of the hill. It’s like a triangle covered with Mylar. As the volume moves up the hill, it becomes circular. The bottom half is buried in the hill and the top half is translucent Mylar Painted black inside to absorb visible and near infrared. This goes all the way to the top of the hill and the tube is open, pointed vertically. I want to put a wind turbine there to turn the hot rushing air into electricity. What kind of turbine would be best? Either vertical or horizontal, but I’m unsure on how to maximize the efficiency in blade design. Love your video. You now have a new subscriber. Thanks, Paul (I’m an optical physicist)
Thank you for your comment and for your idea. On your thermal chimney, what is the area of the opening and what is the average velocity during the period that you expect to extract power?
@@Jimscoolstuff I have no idea. It’s just a concept at this point. I’m thinking that the inlet area should be larger than the cross area of the main pipe going up. Possibly the inside of the pipe can start corkscrewing as it gets higher, putting the rising air into a helix, already twisting. Maybe there’s a blade design that could take advantage of that. I really like your sails. I’m just wondering if they can be made to open on one side and close on the other, using thin curved aluminum sheeting attached above and below with a cam of sorts. Sort of like the arc slot that allows one to adjust belt tension on a motor pulley system. Except the blades have little pins that ride in the slot. Think about it.
@@Jimscoolstuff Yea, there’s always a downside. But maybe you could have Teflon coated cams and pins. At least you wouldn’t have the sail in irons. It would be open on one side and closed on the other. The sails could have the same curvature as the central drum to conform perfectly. Maybe a small cup on each so when closed, as they come around, the wind would catch that little edge or cup and pull it open. The problem I see in general is the speed these sails can open and close. To give them more time, you would need to increase the diameter. Have you thought about breaking the sails vertically into n segments, where each vertical segment is clocked with respect to the lower one? Sort of a vertical helix. This might help with the blind spots when the rear sail is in the shadow of the front one. Also, maybe use three fans instead of one to better simulate a laminar flow. Paul
I have not been working on this project because of the weather. I have not yet made a finished version capable of operating outside. Thank you for your comment.
I suggest that you can get familiar with 3D printing, and perhaps a design program like OpenSCAD which you can write "circle+square+many other commands which are fun" ... and test a bunch of designs for cumulative torque over a few minutes with a fan running various turbulances and speeds "and ting":)
What is the exact equation for horsepower versus RPM you mentioned it but you didn't give us a starting point here. If you could answer that I'd appreciate it
One HP is equal to 550 foot-pounds per second (foot-pounds of work, not torque). One HP is also equal to 746 Watts. In terms of torque and RPM, one HP=Torque times RPM/5250 (torque in pound-feet). I hope this answers your question.
I like the idea, but I'm imagining the cup fabric wearing from the constant flexion and rubbing against each other. I've seen other implementations with hard vanes basically on hinge pins, but again, the culprit is wear in the system. That system was kind of noisy, though, compared to this one.
old guy easily beats sophisticated DIY builds and VAWT startups.😂 it is just a matter of scaling this up with more power and durable, reliable, long lasting design.
Generally, for VAWTs, lift turbines like Darrieus and Gorlov are 35 to 40% efficient but are expensive and do not self start. Savonius turbines or drag based turbines are 15 to 20% efficient but self start and are cheap. Sail turbine seems to be a cheap lift based turbine. If its efficiency is as much as Darrieus or Gorlov Helical Turbine, it is surely the real deal. Good job!!!
I will take it outside soon. Right now it is very cold here and there is snow on the ground. I intend to take it outside in the part 2 video that I am now working on. Thanks for your comment.
Thanks for your question. As the wind approaches the unit it must speed up to go around the cylinder. This could result in TSR (tip speed ratio) greater than 1.
@@samdekok72 Thanks for your question. The wind speed from the fan is not uniform. It is high near the outside edge and very low near the center of the fan. The wind generated by the fan is also rotating in the same direction as the fan blades and is thus not flowing perpendicular to the turbine axis. Because of these things it is pointless to measure the RPM of the turbine when powered by a fan.
Hi.. Sir .. i m from pakistan.. I love your great idea of paper blade.. But when rain is come its blade dameg with water.. So we use paper of plastic.. Lcd screen refleter plastic paper.. What u think about.. Sir i m poor in english so forgot me.. Thanks
Thank you for your comment. The paper was only to show the principle of operation. Plastic or fabric is more practical. Please watch my other videos on VAWT before you build one. Best Regards.
Hi Jim, I have seen all your Vertical Axis Wind Turbine videos. Your idea of using sailboat technology to make a wind turbine is genius. Sounds primitive but actually is quite advanced and low cost at the same time. The sail acts as a door that allows the wind to produce a lift to spin on one side and not produce drag on the other. May I know what is the efficiency of this turbine?
I have not built a full scale model of this design, and I don't have the skills to calculate the efficiency. since the wind is free it is more a matter of cost per KW HR than efficiency. Best Regards.
Try this thought experiment. Take a sale boat taking in the wind across a sea. Then roll that flat sea into a tube with its surface on the outside. the sail boat now tracks in spiral on the rolled up sea. Lastly add another sailboat 180 degrees on the other side of the tube taking in the same direction and angle. What you now have is very much like two propeller blades on a shaft. And propeller blades can move air if you apply torque to the shaft or if you move air past the blades the blades will apply torque to the shaft.
Jim, very interesting concept, thanks! Was wondering what came of the aircrete testing and whether you used it to build anything... was thinking of that garden bed idea done in aircrete myself, although I rather liked your foam board sandwich. Anyway, congratulations on the health improvement and getting off the statins. Thanks again.
Thanks for your comment. There is a video by a guy that made garden bed panels using aircrete, but he found that his weed eater cut into it. I found using the foam board to lighten the panels was more difficult than it was worth. Just use a hand truck to move them. The weight actually helps hold them in place. I have not built anything using aircrete but it is a very interesting material.
@@Jimscoolstuff To increase the Coanda Effects put this in a oil drum! Open up in front half left side, and on the other side (clockwise)! the wind is not slowing down the Vawt and you can increese tha air draft!!! Now you perhaps have same effects on 3 m/s! And your Vawt it's awesome!
Compared to a regular windmill they are not very efficient. Standard style the blades are into the wind 100% of the time. VAWT will never be as efficient.
It would flap the material to rags in less than a day. Doubt you are developing any power. Most inefficient drag type vast I have ever seen. An boring drawn out video. Should have done a 3 to five minute one.
Good day sir, I am an electronics engineering technology student from the Philippines. We are inspired by your work to create a wind-solar street light. We would like to ask for your permission regarding the inclusion of an image of your design in our study as well as creating a sail type turbine with your concept. We humbly ask for your email address as a way for us to send our formal request. Thank you
You're a straight genius, elegant, cheap and effective, great design
Thanks for your kind comment.
Your sail idea, is brilliant. This is what I'll be using, thank you.
Thank you for your comment.
Never seen or heard of this idea before, and I've taken a keen interest in both hawt and vawt technology over the past few years. Excellent to see you put your theory to the test, and impressive looking results. Thanks for taking the time to make this video and for sharing your design and theory. It's something I shall be exploring, as I'm intending to install a small turbine at home in the fairly near future.
Thankyou for your comment. I will be publishing more videos on this subject soon. Good luck with your project. Please keep us informed.
I love VAWT and recognise the simplicity of many drag type turbines. I'm also a fan (pardon the pun) of direct driving the generator. But drag turbines will always rotate slower than the wind at their tips while lift turbines move faster than the wind at their tips. And as such, drag turbines create an engineering challenges on a direct drive generator that needs to get enough rotational velocity so as to generate a usefull voltages. It can be done but I'm just pointing out that it is something that needs to be considered when engineering a project like this.
Hopefully with less weight and higher rotations for a given wind, one can save money on the support structure and put more money into large diameter axial flux generators with powerfull magnets.
Alternatly, Here is a thought. Put two counter rotating turbines on the same shaft. The bottom turbine has coils attached and slip rings with carbon brushes on the shaft to collect current from the coils on the turbine, while the top turbine has magnets attached. This will have the magnets pass the coils at roughly double the rate than if the coils were on a stator. This increase in the rate of change of the magnetic field increasing the voltage generated from a given coil with its chariceristic internal resistance. Doubling the voltage alows one to half the current and get the same power. But it's actually better than that. The efficency improves because half the current × the resistance in the coils halfs the voltage drop due to Internal resistance and half the voltage drop × half the current = 1/4 of the original power lost due to internal resistance.
For example. A coil having 0.5 ohms and 10amps of current flowing through it has a voltage drop of 5v from it's open circuit voltage. And 5v×10amps=50 watts lost. But if one draws just 5amps then 5amps×0.5ohms = just 2.5 volts dropped from open circuit voltage. And 2.5v×5amps = 12.5watts lost due to internal resistance.
The above highlights why it's vitally important to get higher voltage and lower the resistance in the coils.
I applaud your pioneering and innovating thinking! This is how new ideas are proven or disproven. I have been doing a LOT of reading on VAWTs and for the sake of simplicity, have decided to go with the "traditional" Savonius design of a split and offset cylinder. While I really like your concept of lowering the coefficient of drag on the leeward side of the rotor, it introduces an element that will need maintenance/replacement. Would be interesting to see what the "real world" data is by constructing one of your turbines with rigid blades and comparing the output to one with fabric collapsible blades. This is in no way intended to be a negative criticism of your implementation... everybody should weigh the costs, complexity, and durability when choosing a design. Keep up the great thinking and experimenting!!!
Thank you for your comment and ideas.
Lot of good information here! Shadow strobe is something I never thought about before.
Thanks for your comment.
Brilliant
@@jeffreykamende1402 Thanks for your comment.
Jim, don't worry about the haters. You can pronounce turbine however you want so long as we can understand it contextually.
Thank you for your comment. I am making a small effort to stop the corruption of American English. Years ago I started a job in the plant engineering department of an electric utility company. In a meeting I used the English pronunciation of the word "turbine". This caused some laughter and good natured ridicule as they informed me of the American pronunciation. In the USA engineers that work with turbines pronounce it with the silent e.
Really clever idea, I have not seen anything like it. Worked really well for something put together with some household materials.
Thank you for your comment. Be sure to watch parts 2 and 3..
Thank you for taking the time to demonstrate this cool design.
Brilliant Jim. Opened my eyes to new possibilities. Keep it up
EXCELLENT INFORMATION AND DESIGN, THIS MAY BE THE BREAKTHROUGH AIR POWER NEEDED. I HAVE A DESIGN FOR A BLADED ONE WITH A SPRING LOADED MOUNT THAT BENDS BACK IN HEAVY WIND, NO BREAKING NEEDED JUST A TENSION ADJUSTMENT ON THE SPRING THAT PULLS IT BACK TO THE UPRIGHT POSITION..
Thank you for sharing your ideas. Best Regards
Sir you are a genious. Thank you for sharing your ideas.
Beautiful thing you made. Was thinking how to use it on a boat. There are few thoughts:
1. Moving fabric (collapsing) blades like that will tear apart quickly regardless of what they are made of. Practice shows that free waving fabrics do not last.
2. Metal closing blades on a free shaft will probably break fast as well. These will break off at the shaft, but probably it is a best bet anyway.
3. For harder (heavier) blade materials centrifugal force will not allow them to collapse properly. Maybe a stopper which does not allow blades to swing out completely might be weighted with the blade itself to balance out centrifugal force (and there will be plenty of it with 40 knot wind).
4. Balancing lower and upper parts, reducing drag will probably be the hardest challenge, because moving blades will change weight distribution. Maybe mount it on a bent turning shaft heeled to the side with blades out.
Thank you for your comment. On sail boats flapping (luffing) is prevented by stiffeners (stays) that are sewn into the trailing edge of the sail. The cloth sails will eventually wear out as will any other flexing material other than rubber. look at how vehicle tires flex. A rubberized material may last a very long time. There is the possibility for much improvement in sail materials.
Note that in collapsing a cup, air that was inside it is forced out.
While It takes energy to collaps a cup pushing the air inside it out of the cup, the escaping air provides some thrust. This thrust should be providing some torque on the side 180 degrees from the side where the cup opens. This theory should be testable with an open cup that when the wind is turned on, the cup is collapsed and if I'm right causes the turbine to begin rotating.
if'n the turbine was horizonta,l the cups could be assisted to open and close by gravity.
Thanks for posting this video Jim. I currently have 5 high powered fans that I need to run with computers that have a high wind output, my wife often puts her washed clothes in front of them to dry. Anyway I was thinking of building a VAWT to generate electricity from these fans so it can charge my lithium batteries so I get a bit of power back and dont use as much electricity. Once again thanks Jim
Thanks for your comment.
Brilliant idea I can imagine different materials will produce different results and definitely going to try this one...I just want to add to this I can see this being a very brilliant way of producing power on a larger scale and also be brilliant to scare the birds away from my seeds in the garden👍
Thanks for your nice comment.
Yes what struck me was my experience when I started windsurfing in the early 1980, sails where made of nylon an where unsupported apart from the mast and boom section and not very efficient. As the technology improved batons where added to the sails and by the late 90’s sails were transformed and more sophisticated using light weight batons combined with Mylar films which maintained the shape of a wing at all time, making them very efficient. My thinking was to use the same principle but pivoting each sail (wing) around the circumference limiting the aperture on leeward side for maximum capture and using the aerodynamic foil on the windward return for dynamic efficiency. Perhaps I’m getting too complicated with my suggestion but in my mind it seems to work with your model. I really enjoy your videos. 👍
Thanks for the information on materials. I have a working model of a unit with sails only (no barrel in the center). By allowing gaps between the sails the wind can pass thru and fill the sails on the leeward side as well as on the windward side. I am working on a video to show this.
Brilliant idea to solve the big problem most vertical axis generators have in common.
The only drawback is , flapping materials tend to fatigue easily like flags . Maybe something like a thin lightweight rubber as used in push bike innertubes may be better. (A bit like heart valves... lightweight and strong.
Excellent Idea. Thanks for sharing it.
You have open my mind! I want to try to make it, with materials that resist at rain!
Thanks for your content
Please let us know what material you use. Best regards.
@@Jimscoolstuff Hi Jim, I try to explain with Google Translate's help: For upper and lower circle I'm think to use fiberglass, I can make it myself. For pole I can use simply iron, with bearings and for collaps elements I think to use a synthetic material, synthetic fabric, which is very weather resistant.
Do you have any suggest for dimensions and number of "sails" ?
On performance, your probably getting higher than you realize. When working out a turbines COP in a given wind, the typical cross section is based on the diameter of the rotor×height. But with collapsing cups, one might argue the actual cross section is smaller which sugest the COP is better than if the cross section area is calculated like cups that don't collaps.
If your can was wire mesh you could get pass through airflow. That is typically more ideal.
thank you my friend ill be sure to share and try to duplicate your new and brilliant way on how the wind mill can be improved and to produce energy
Thanks for your comment.
Thanks jim, that was cool. I subscribed and am looking forward to more videos like this.
That is way cool, nicely done -gonna give this a go for sure!
Thank you for your comment. I hope your test is successful.
Very impressed by your passion and adherence of throwing knowledge on you tube 🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹🌹
Great vid Jim. I may build one of these to help run my man cave!! Thanks for the cool ideas.
Thanks for your comment.
Very clever! Should make turbines much more efficient on lower rpms. Especially if the "sails" are lightweight.
Instead of sail cloth, there are some fabrics that are elastic, but elastic only to a certain degree. It would give more torque on slightly higher wind, and would still collapse on the return side.
Thanks for your comment and ideas.
I have found a permanent magnet motor from a front load Whirlpool washing machine, took the whole drum and surrounding plastic. Spun by hand it made over 12 V AC when turned with a drill it made 168V AC looking to use your sail idea to attach to the drum and make a VAWG by trimming most of the plastic surround off and mounting with the remaining housing
Let us know when you have it working. Thanks for sharing your idea.
If you create a wind tunnel that positions the fan at the exit end of the experiment, it will pull air through evenly rather than push air spirally, which would make the test more efficient.
Thanks for this good idea.
Hello Jim, you have presented some interesting ideas, One thing I did wonder was how practical cloth would be in a working version due to external elements such as rain and snow? Windsurfing sails are made using Mylar films which are very strong. While expensive I thought this might be more resistant to the elements.
Thanks for the question. Flags fly in rain and snow. I think they are usually made on nylon. Some research is needed on the best fabric for the job. Perhaps a flexible plastic sheet could be used. I think there are a lot of possibilities. I hope others will make some suggestions based on their experiences.
Rain and snow wouldn't be a problem.
The sun is, UV to be precise. In addition to strong hits of wind on material. I was thinking about something similar but with magnets on thin plate sheets.
@@zepsujtosam07 I agree with you, main problem is UV and the wind forces. Had sun shade sails made of nylon. Wind hits it, tearing it, even with springs to soften the tearing. After 3-4 years the material is done. So finding the best material for the sails is a main point here. I hope Jim is going to get it right. The idea is phenomenal and very promising.
Brilliant idea ! Why don't you make a real working one with generator in some big scale? I look forward to seeing it asap. Thank you.
That is my plan, but it will take some time. Thank you for your comment.
Great idea. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for your comment.
This is pretty awesome stuff Jim!
Thankyou for your nice comment.
A very intelligent concept.. I liked it.
Thank you for your comment.
sorry if this question has been asked already, Jim ... How is this design when it comes to noise issues? Will the "blades" flap and make lots of noise?
There is some flapping sound. It is similar to the sound made by a flag. This will vary with the wind velocity and the size of the sails.
This as I have concieved but different. Amazing!
Thank you for your comment.
Good work Jim! I may use something like this as a STEM project at our local Boys and Girls Brigade
Thanks for your comment and good luck with your project.
Brilliant. Just what I was looking for. Thank you.
Thanks for your comment.
This is great, never seen this design before, sounds very logical. The only problem is the material and it's dimensions and how it can withstand the tension and all the flexing forth and back. The best design I have seen where there is almost no lost from the wind hitting on the "wrong" half is by using outer layer of blades that directs the wind only to the "right" half side. That should be much simpler to do.
Thanks for your comment. Be sure to watch my other videos on VAWT.
Great job very informitive
Brilliant. One thought on how you could make the paper out of stiff aluminum. If you’re interested, contact me.
Question.
I have a thermal chimney on the south side of a hill in the desert. The chimney starts out wide horizontally (not much height) at the bottom of the hill. It’s like a triangle covered with Mylar. As the volume moves up the hill, it becomes circular. The bottom half is buried in the hill and the top half is translucent Mylar Painted black inside to absorb visible and near infrared.
This goes all the way to the top of the hill and the tube is open, pointed vertically. I want to put a wind turbine there to turn the hot rushing air into electricity.
What kind of turbine would be best? Either vertical or horizontal, but I’m unsure on how to maximize the efficiency in blade design.
Love your video. You now have a new subscriber.
Thanks,
Paul
(I’m an optical physicist)
Thank you for your comment and for your idea. On your thermal chimney, what is the area of the opening and what is the average velocity during the period that you expect to extract power?
@@Jimscoolstuff I have no idea. It’s just a concept at this point. I’m thinking that the inlet area should be larger than the cross area of the main pipe going up. Possibly the inside of the pipe can start corkscrewing as it gets higher, putting the rising air into a helix, already twisting. Maybe there’s a blade design that could take advantage of that.
I really like your sails. I’m just wondering if they can be made to open on one side and close on the other, using thin curved aluminum sheeting attached above and below with a cam of sorts. Sort of like the arc slot that allows one to adjust belt tension on a motor pulley system. Except the blades have little pins that ride in the slot. Think about it.
@@paulmanhart4481 I have been thinking about your idea. The only drawback that I can see is noise. Good luck with your chimney.
@@Jimscoolstuff Yea, there’s always a downside. But maybe you could have Teflon coated cams and pins. At least you wouldn’t have the sail in irons. It would be open on one side and closed on the other. The sails could have the same curvature as the central drum to conform perfectly. Maybe a small cup on each so when closed, as they come around, the wind would catch that little edge or cup and pull it open.
The problem I see in general is the speed these sails can open and close. To give them more time, you would need to increase the diameter.
Have you thought about breaking the sails vertically into n segments, where each vertical segment is clocked with respect to the lower one? Sort of a vertical helix. This might help with the blind spots when the rear sail is in the shadow of the front one.
Also, maybe use three fans instead of one to better simulate a laminar flow.
Paul
Thank you for your knowledge
Thank you for your comment.
This is good,very good,simple and effective
Thanks for your comment.
Very nice invention. But i have some questions. Is it still in use in a garden ? Does the foil stick when wet or when it is freezing ?
I have not been working on this project because of the weather. I have not yet made a finished version capable of operating outside. Thank you for your comment.
@@Jimscoolstuff Thank you for the answer. Good luck.
I suggest that you can get familiar with 3D printing, and perhaps a design program like OpenSCAD which you can write "circle+square+many other commands which are fun" ... and test a bunch of designs for cumulative torque over a few minutes with a fan running various turbulances and speeds "and ting":)
Question. Why did you use an even number of sails? With an odd number it would disperse the wind more effectively.
This is awesome thanks for the idea
Thanks for your comment.
Very informative thank you!
Thanks for you nice comment.
very very nice and hobby budget
Thanks for your nice comment.
What is the exact equation for horsepower versus RPM you mentioned it but you didn't give us a starting point here. If you could answer that I'd appreciate it
One HP is equal to 550 foot-pounds per second (foot-pounds of work, not torque). One HP is also equal to 746 Watts. In terms of torque and RPM, one HP=Torque times RPM/5250 (torque in pound-feet). I hope this answers your question.
@@Jimscoolstuff thank you.
That is just brilliant!
Thank you for your comment.
Sir, this video was amazing, thank you so much 🎩.
Thankyou for your kind comment.
@@Jimscoolstuff thank you for sharing the knowledge that you worked hard to get. Thank you again.
I like the idea, but I'm imagining the cup fabric wearing from the constant flexion and rubbing against each other. I've seen other implementations with hard vanes basically on hinge pins, but again, the culprit is wear in the system. That system was kind of noisy, though, compared to this one.
You are correct, when anything is held in place but is allowed to move, there is something that will eventually wear out.
old guy easily beats sophisticated DIY builds and VAWT startups.😂 it is just a matter of scaling this up with more power and durable, reliable, long lasting design.
Thanks for your comment.
Generally, for VAWTs, lift turbines like Darrieus and Gorlov are 35 to 40% efficient but are expensive and do not self start.
Savonius turbines or drag based turbines are 15 to 20% efficient but self start and are cheap.
Sail turbine seems to be a cheap lift based turbine. If its efficiency is as much as Darrieus or Gorlov Helical Turbine, it is surely the real deal. Good job!!!
Thank you for your kind comments.
@@Jimscoolstuff You're welcome
Thank you
Simply brilliant... M gonna build some turbine with jeans 👖 fabric now
Interesting! I wonder if it works outside too!
I will take it outside soon. Right now it is very cold here and there is snow on the ground. I intend to take it outside in the part 2 video that I am now working on. Thanks for your comment.
Interesting. I guess the TSR would be less than 1?
Thanks for your question. As the wind approaches the unit it must speed up to go around the cylinder. This could result in TSR (tip speed ratio) greater than 1.
@@Jimscoolstuff i guess it would be easy to tell if you know the rpm and the wind speed
@@samdekok72 Thanks for your question. The wind speed from the fan is not uniform. It is high near the outside edge and very low near the center of the fan. The wind generated by the fan is also rotating in the same direction as the fan blades and is thus not flowing perpendicular to the turbine axis. Because of these things it is pointless to measure the RPM of the turbine when powered by a fan.
Good evening sir,
We are from the Philippines and inspired by your work, can we use your design for our study? Thank you in advance
Yes you can use the design as you wish. I hope you will inform us of any improvements that you make.
Hi.. Sir .. i m from
pakistan.. I love your great idea of paper blade.. But when rain is come its blade dameg with water.. So we use paper of plastic.. Lcd screen refleter plastic paper.. What u think about.. Sir i m poor in english so forgot me.. Thanks
Thank you for your comment. The paper was only to show the principle of operation. Plastic or fabric is more practical. Please watch my other videos on VAWT before you build one. Best Regards.
Hi Jim, I have seen all your Vertical Axis Wind Turbine videos. Your idea of using sailboat technology to make a wind turbine is genius. Sounds primitive but actually is quite advanced and low cost at the same time. The sail acts as a door that allows the wind to produce a lift to spin on one side and not produce drag on the other.
May I know what is the efficiency of this turbine?
I have not built a full scale model of this design, and I don't have the skills to calculate the efficiency. since the wind is free it is more a matter of cost per KW HR than efficiency. Best Regards.
Try this thought experiment. Take a sale boat taking in the wind across a sea. Then roll that flat sea into a tube with its surface on the outside. the sail boat now tracks in spiral on the rolled up sea. Lastly add another sailboat 180 degrees on the other side of the tube taking in the same direction and angle. What you now have is very much like two propeller blades on a shaft. And propeller blades can move air if you apply torque to the shaft or if you move air past the blades the blades will apply torque to the shaft.
Sehr gute idee
Jim, very interesting concept, thanks! Was wondering what came of the aircrete testing and whether you used it to build anything... was thinking of that garden bed idea done in aircrete myself, although I rather liked your foam board sandwich. Anyway, congratulations on the health improvement and getting off the statins. Thanks again.
Thanks for your comment. There is a video by a guy that made garden bed panels using aircrete, but he found that his weed eater cut into it. I found using the foam board to lighten the panels was more difficult than it was worth. Just use a hand truck to move them. The weight actually helps hold them in place. I have not built anything using aircrete but it is a very interesting material.
Props!
so have bending blades, (flap valves). opened when wind is along, and fold in when against the wind
turn the bending radial, so that there is only one blade that also is very collapsible for transportation, make from flexible plastic or sail, frame
just a normal vawt cups but flexible, like a skater spinning fast and slow by reaching far or short
the flexibility needs to be such that it will return to center and open fully, when no wind or transition position
Thank you for your comments. Best regards
the folding wing can be also a hinge with lock out angle, so 0-90 only, or sequence of 0-15 degrees range angles
If it goes so well att under 6,3 m/s! It got my attention!
I am working on ways to make it better and more practical. I hope to publish a part 2 video soon. Best regards.
@@Jimscoolstuff To increase the Coanda Effects put this in a oil drum! Open up in front half left side, and on the other side (clockwise)! the wind is not slowing down the Vawt and you can increese tha air draft!!! Now you perhaps have same effects on 3 m/s! And your Vawt it's awesome!
@@mikaelfransson3658 Thank you for taking time to share your ideas with others.
Brilliant but the noise would really p**s off my neighbours (US neighbors)
Thanks for your comment.
But i think some monsoon showers in India might ruin the principle...
Sail boats work in the rain. Thank you for your comment.
@@Jimscoolstuff you got me 👍
Compared to a regular windmill they are not very efficient. Standard style the blades are into the wind 100% of the time. VAWT will never be as efficient.
Thanks for your comment.
Betz limit has been smashed and debunked regards Graham S Flowers
Thanks for sharing. I watched your very nice video, but your conclusions are not correct.
Best Regards
@@Jimscoolstuff why what do you not agree with
@@grahamflowers It is difficult to explain without diagrams and math, so I will discuss common misconceptions about wind energy in a future video.
@@Jimscoolstuff hi I have no misconceptions about wind it is better than you think or Betz let's on regards Graham
Your channel is much better than Robert Murray Smiths.
If ya need your talk faster playback speed 1.5x is great
All my homies hate hawt
As an American, that's not how we say turbine
It would flap the material to rags in less than a day.
Doubt you are developing any power.
Most inefficient drag type vast I have ever seen. An boring drawn out video. Should have done a 3 to five minute one.
U r my inspiration . Uncle Jim
Thank you for your comment.
I like you old boy....😝
Thank you for your comment.
Good day sir,
I am an electronics engineering technology student from the Philippines. We are inspired by your work to create a wind-solar street light. We would like to ask for your permission regarding the inclusion of an image of your design in our study as well as creating a sail type turbine with your concept. We humbly ask for your email address as a way for us to send our formal request. Thank you
ki8bv@mactronics.net
Thank you
Thanks for your comment.