OP here. I'm the producer of this series, and I'm one of a team of four persons here at the Finnish Broadcasting Company Yle behind this series. The starting point of the whole series was to ask some fundamental questions regarding the so called Nordic welfare model, and the Nordic society. It has by and large been hailed as a great success story, and when you look at several statistics regarding quality of life, generally speaking, the Nordic countries are more often than not in the top tier. We wanted to question how we run our society. What values do we have? How do we live our lives here up north? The method we wanted to use was simple; offer a global perspective on these issues. Therefore, each episode has a theme of its own. We invite a guest from another country, which in general has another viewpoint. How does she/he experience the Nordic model? This episode, regarding correctional facilities in the Nordic countries, will be broadcast in Finland on Tuesday, Oct. 21, 2014, and the next five episodes are broadcast weekly. The series will also be broadcast in Sweden, Denmark and Norway. All episodes are streamed on arenan.yle.fi, but as yet I have not been able to get the episodes subtitled in English. Most conversations in the episodes are in English though. I'm working on getting the series translated.
Thanks! I'm from New Zealand, and I am VERY interested in watching your series. I sincerely hope you will get them translated. I have to say, in general I am ideologically very supportive of prisons like the one seen in this video. I think it's a fantastic example for the world to follow. I've always thought depriving someone of their liberty is punishment enough. We get ONE life, about 80 short years each if we're lucky. To forcibly take someone's freedom at the behest of the state, and lock them away in a place they cannot escape, for a significant portion of their life, is an extreme act which should not be done lightly, especially considering the unequal society we live in. Definitely the rehabilitation model is exemplary and consistent with humanitarian ideals where we treat people with a baseline level of respect, without inflicting psychological punishment for crimes that the individual may only be partially fully responsible for (considering our unfair and unequal society which breeds antisocial behaviour). Anyway that's my take on it. I look forward to seeing more of the programme.
John Stark Hey, I saw the ad on tv and it really got my interest. Is there a way to watch the whole series online somewhere now or does it come to Yle Areena when it has aired?
2mad2behere Hey 2mad2behere, thanks for your interest! The episodes are published on the Yle Areena streaming service once they've been broadcast in Finland. The first episode is aired tomorrow, Tuesday Oct. 21st at 7 PM local time (GMT+2) in Finland, and thus online from that point onward.
I am so happy to see this. Just last night I was in a long debate with a coworker on the function and purpose of correctional facilities. His argument consisted of, 'If we make prisons too comfortable, some people would rather be in prison than be in the free world. So they don't have to work, and receive free health care, education, etc.' So to be able to strengthen my counter argument against him I am very interested to see the reincarceration rate, rehabilitation rate, and the post-release job rate for inmates in the Nordic countries. Still, in my mind, helping society is the only purpose of a prison. Some people (i.e. murderers) are such a danger to society that they need to be kept separate. But for every single person who can be rehabilitated, that should be our primary goal. Every person should leave prison more educated and in a better mental condition than they arrived - so that afterwards they may be a benefit to society, instead of a continued drain and a repeat offender. Americans tend not to like this idea... we are a nation so obsessed with punishment we completely overlook what most benefits society.
dryanmorr Then again, only 27% of Norwegian prisoners return to prison, where the US number is 70%. With 10x the number of prisoners per capita, the pure economics in it is very good. Norway spends double per prisoner, but has 1/10 the number. Per capita that is. So resort or not, the end result is a safer society. I'll go with that any day of the week.
kodez79 As for the 1/4 of the re-offending population will continue to commit crimes and go to luxury. There has to be a limit in which it is said that you will be punished for doing evil acts... not rewarded with what essentially is a hotel.
timmy vindiesel Yes, ignore the 27% of repeat offenders and continue to provide them luxury regardless of their disregard... 73%... lovely great. Shows that a focus on rehabilitation works and is good. But ignoring 27% just because its a low number is arrogant and insulting to victims that never get justice.
Treating people like shit does not make them want to become better people. But surrounding people in a comfortable in environment where people treat you like humans... Well that might just make you change your whole outlook on life and change you for the better. Norway might be onto something here... Wtf USA.
Exactly. The American in this clip is only focused on the punishment, which solves absolutely nothing (on a society level, ofc it helps relatives/victims through the grief). All that matter is: are the criminal going to change it's behavior? Pure punishment is not effective, it leads to more anger.
You'll have a much different perspective when the inmate is the one who raped your 12 year old, cut her up and tossed her dismembered body in the trash. Yeah, that sounds great to have people like that living in a place like this. Or a dirty white collar investor who managed to con hundreds of people out of their hard earned money which caused them to be without house or home, now barely living in debt as they simply hope to feed their children, yup, I want these inmates living it up like this, *hell no.* *You simply don't get it because a crime most likely hasn't been committed truly affecting your life.*
neil78b If you take a person that raped a 12 year old and punish them by treating them like an animal are they going to rape again when they get out.... probably, if you sort out the underlying problem over the many years they are incarcerated you can prevent them returning to a life of crime. If a rapist spends 10 years in a place like this he will be able to return to society a changed person having paid his time. But i also believe there are more secure prisons for more serious criminals, there must be right. .
My friends grandmother was the subject of a home invasion robbery and attempted rape. I couldn't imagine a society that would give a PS2 to a person like that ..... the show doesn't properly show us the area of the prison where they keep the really dangerous offenders, so it's not like comparing apples to apples here.
Andrew Brown Like I said, let this happen to someone that means the world to you personally, you will think quite differently, otherwise, you have no point what so ever.
This looks like it would teach inmates social skills, skills for living with people who are different from them or who they might disagree with, and skills on how to express their emotional side in ways that aren't violent or criminal. Give people some secure self respect and they start respecting others. Give inmates something worth while, and they start thinking about becoming worth while.
Prisons are meant to shield people from the dangerous people who are not fit to live in a society! while they're locked up they should live as cheap as possible because they CHOSE to be there, it's their choice.. if they don't like it, it's their own fault.. it's not our job to keep them happy once they decided to "steal other people happiness"
Russell La Claire I wonder what your kids are like if you don't punish them when they do something wrong.. sorry to make it personal, im just saying that we need justice.. There was this case in Norway, were a guy tortured and raped two small girls around 10 years old, and then killed them.. that was about 14 years ago and he is now a free man, someones neighbor. Not only is he a tremendous danger to society, but think of the mother and family to those little girls... do you think he has paid for his crime? Do you think he is rehabilitated and able to function in society? yes we should prepare inmates for the world outside, but there is a limit and our concern should not be how we can make life as good as possible for the inmates, at tax payers cost. They deserve and need the very least amount of care of all the other things in society we could spend money and time on. We can also prepare them for the world outside from a prison that actually looks like a prison. I'm not saying we need gang wars, rape and stabbing like the worlds worst prisons, but we need prisons, not hotels with locked doors! it's absurd!
The european human rights court has established that prison is only supposed to deprive you of the right to freedom. Every other right under the convention should be respected as far as it is possible under the circumstances. I really like that convention:)
Jimbo Jones The human rights are strongly influenced by utilitarism (and natural law). Trying to rehabilitate law breakers will do far more good in the long run that punishing them. If you punish law breakers harshly, they are less likely to rehabilitate, which could cause them to break the law again when they are released. This would send them back into prison, which would be a total waste of tax money. Catching a criminal, giving him a fair trial and paying prison costs is very expensive. This money would be far better spent on help for the elderly or fighting social injustice etc. The goal should be to try to keep people from doing something bad in the first place. The fear of prison is actually very ineffective. Rehabilitation seems to be more effective. Furthermore, I would like to add that the people who develop human rights treaties are very intelligent, experienced people. They are basing their work on the work of philosophers and scientist. It is a bit arrogant to assume they are totally wrong.
I have to say , prisons in my country (Poland) are still miles better than the barbaric, for-profit slavery internment camps that American prisons are, and my jaw still dropped when I saw silverware and tools so easily accessible to prisoners. But you know what they say; if it sounds stupid but it works, it isn't stupid, Mr Conway. Norway, lowest recidivism rate in world. Seems that investing in rehabilitation and treating people in prison like actual people works wonders for reintroducing them into society.
@UCW2NTRMkgFPqBwifneAsPHw, very interesting perspective you are adding there. I have no knowledge of Polish prisons. I had thought that Poland as a poorer country than the US and somewhat conservative would have had quite harsh prisons. But if your prisons are much better than the US prisons, I think that is rather embarrassing to America. You guys have had democracy for a much shorter time and is less wealthy. Could you give some examples of how Polish prisons are better than US prisons? Do inmates have more privacy? Better food? Is there less crime/violence inside the prisons? Are guards more humane? The world outside of Scandinavia and Anglo-Saxon world is sadly too unknown. I actually kind of like seeing how Netflix have more foreign series/movies now. You can see a bit more of what life is like in other countries besides LA and New York ;-D
@@erikengheim1106 So before I begin, I will say that I have a dual citizenship via jus sanguinis, and I'm both American and Polish and I have spent many years in the USA, so I have some experience in both worlds. Yes, Poland is generally a poorer country than the US, but then again, it's on average since you have to consider that the US has the richest people and corporations and the most billionaires and millionaires living in it, but it also has sprawling ghettos, tent cities for the homeless and large areas in complete dilapidation. Poland, although having poorer and wealthier areas of its own, does not have inequalities to the same degree as the US. And I'm not sure whether you're American, but although Poland is a conservative country, being conservative in Poland is very different than being conservative in America. The only overlap is on some "cultural" issues, like homophobia, religion, etc. The biggest difference between Polish and American prisons for starters, is that Polish prisons are not as ridiculously overcrowded. There are no private prisons, they are all publicly owned and under the control of the Ministry of Justice, there is no profit incentive to have as many prisoners as possible or lobby the government to enact more strict laws and longer prison sentences. We have around 70,000 prisoners in the entire country, while in America it's somewhere around 2 million. So I guess with being less overcrowded comes a bit more privacy, though inmates usually are held by 2 or more in their cells. Secondly, prison guards have less authority, certainly way less lethal authority. It's kind of a pain being a prison guard dealing with bored inmates here, from what I've learned. uthorities in Poland in general aren't "shooty" like in America, so it's extremely rare to hear of someone being killed in custody by them. Prison food is actually better than hospital food, which isn't saying much considering that hospital food is indigestible on a good day and lethal on a bad one. Violence still happens, drugs are smuggled in, snitches are hunted down, etc. No mass riots like in American prisons where you have to call in the National Guard or something, again, since the small population of prisoners.
@@czajkowski2352 Thanks Piotr interesting info. I am actually Norwegian but we have quite a lot of Polish people in Norway. I never discussed prison policy with them though. I honestly don't know much about Polish politics but the little I have read has given me quite a negative impression. The ones in power these days seem ultra conservative. Was it a major or something who got murdered on stage or something after he had been hated by the right-wing party in charge for some time. That is why I got the impression that Poland was run by people that reminded me of Republicans in the US. Which made me think Polish views on things like prison and crime might be similar to that of Americans. So please don't be upset if this is totally wrong. I am just describing the impressions I have gotten from the few articles I have read. Not everything I have read about Poland is negative. I have also read about what an amazing long term economic growth Poland has had and how good school system it has developed. Poland featured in a book I read about the best school systems in the world.
@@erikengheim1106 Yep, the current majority party is very conservative honestly even reactionary, *fanatically* catholic, and with authoritarian tendencies (here my political leanings are being exposed, lol) but not really comparable to Republicans, since we don't have those types of parties that aggressively dismantle public institution, cut taxes, deregulate and privatize like the Anglosphere does. For example, that conservative party has been winning elections by expanding the social safety net, for instance by providing what amounts to UBI for all people with children. This is not something that Republicans would do, EVER. And don't worry about criticizing Poland. Although complaining about the country is polish peoples' favorite pastime activity, polish patriots tend to become _very upset_ when foreigners speak wrongly of their nation (I still remember the national meltdown when Obama accidentally called concentration camps built by Germans on Polish soil "Polish concentration camps"). But I personally don't mind and don't care. I'm no patriot, there are many places that I would rather to live than here if I weren't already set up, Norway certainly being one such place as I was very impressed the one time I was on vacation there.
@@czajkowski2352 Thanks, a lot of interesting perspective there. Especially how your conservatives are not really the ones cutting on welfare. Our conservatives are not as extreme as the Americans, but like them their platform is very much about tax cuts for corporations and the rich, privatization etc. However they are not religious. One of the best known conservative politicians for years in Norway was gay. > Although complaining about the country is polish peoples' favorite pastime activity Kind of like that in Norway too :-D Except now it is a bit mixed. Due to all the success from oil, the big oil fund and topping all sort of international statistics we have gotten a bit of reputation for bragging too much. But in my defense I will claim Norwegian patriotism is a bit more humble than American. We are well aware that we are a pretty small and not all that important country. We have long had inferiority complexes about being in the shadow of Sweden. And it feels a bit like we cheated to win. We got the oil. We didn't build Volvo, IKEA and H&M. And I also think it is also far more excepted in Norway and Europe in general to be negative. While living in the US I felt Americans had a very strong pressure on them to always be positive and come across as winners and success. Saying life currently sucks is more accepted here. I feel I can share that with Polish colleagues I have worked with. Talking shit and complaining is totally fine. We can kind of bond over that. I actually think it is kind of healthy. The positivity cult is a bit toxic IMHO. You got to be able to point out things that don't work to be able to learn and move forward. As long as you are not being mean and shitting on people. > Norway certainly being one such place as I was very impressed the one time I was on vacation there. You know I am actually quite proud to have read statistics that say Polish people settling Norway are more likely to stay than elsewhere in Europe. Means we must have done some things right.
The thing is. If you know no one else is trying to kill you, you're not going to around harming people. In American prisons you have to have a weapon to protect yourself in a lot of cases.
taras jia Correct. I live close to one of these mental institutions, and have no problem taking my kids for a walk around the hospital, which is a completely open area, and very nice. This is somewhat rose-tinted view, but most of it is accurate: This Country Beats France Last part about a prison. I love the way the US TV hosts comes up with a lot of "facts" that they base on exactly nothing. "The hospital system is terrible in France, terrible in Great Britain.". How do the US population let them get away with these lies on live TV?
ChappedNegroLips I'm not living in a buble. I never even mentioned the system what are you on about? The American war on drugs has fucked up and incarcerated the country (and large parts of Mexico) in so many ways. It's great to see some states changing policies on weed for instance! I couldn't even imagine the gang life until I was in Cali myself shit, nothing like Amsterdam, murder is so rare over here that it's national news for three days.
Honestly I think this is extremely smart. You're not just throwing someone away for 10+ years acting like they dont exist. You're treating them like real people and preparing them for life on the outside when their time there is done. You're educating your inmates in subjects they may never have tried or known about! Giving them interests and things to keep thier mind busy instead of fear and rage.
Why American prisons are not like this? Why America has the largest incarceration rate of any other country by a long shot? Because the prison system in America is a business just like everything else is in America. Providing that many toys and nice things to inmates all across the country would mean spending money. In the American prison system I can imagine that just about everything goes to the lowest bidder to keep the top's pockets even thicker. They don't care about the people in the prisons. They don't want to help them, they keep them there, sometimes wrongly convicted, just to sit there and take punishment for as long as possible so they can keep collecting money. There are still people in prison in this country for selling a plant that they grew themselves(marijuana) just to make some money in a country where the minimum wage is non-livable and a decent college education that does not guarantee a job is far too expensive for the value that it holds. Now, putting a hippie who smokes weed and grows his own weed to make money because maybe he didn't have the upbringing to attend a prestigious college and doesn't have any outstanding skills, but he grows a plant that is not as bad for you as legal alcohol is and will not kill you, just make you happy, lazy and hungry. A plant that has been on this planet longer than the prisons have been on this planet. This person is in the same leagues as actual dangerous drug dealers(heroin, meth, crack, bath salts) rapists, murderers? Yes you can go on Government hand outs but only to the cost of the taxpayers. We live in a backwards broken system that needs to be fixed. How it is going to be fixed? I have no idea, I still have no fucking idea how I am supposed to pay off my already 60 grand in student loan debt and I am not even done with college yet! Fuck America, everyone is oblivious, idiotic and ignorant here. Scandinavia and Germany have long surpassed America as the top places where I want to live.
FriedrichAmsel He is. He also doesn't look a day over 16. But if you want to believe what he says, 15 year old students have written great essays on Twilight if you'd like to read them for legitimate facts.
Modokun Well, there are people in prison for selling and smoking marijuana. That is a fact. America has the largest number of people incarcerated. That is a fact. If you are still so uninformed about America, read this article which basically outlines that the US military gets many many things made for them by a captive workforce. It's just about as close to slavery as you can get in this country and guess who is mostly involved, black people and Hispanics. www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289
"why have them in prison anyway" This guy works in a prison and doesn't understand that prisons also function to separate criminals from the normal populace. Aside from the obvious fact that no amount of toys are worth losing your freedom for.
The Norden -series was one of the best series I had ever seen. I wish Yle would make a few episodes more. It's such an interesting thing to see two different Worlds collide with each other.
Here's the complete first episode with subtitles in English: ua-cam.com/video/HfEsz812Q1I/v-deo.html Please feel free to share the URL. Thank you for your comments and your interest!
Brilliant. as a swede i can of course watch straight from the source, but will translations and uploads happen on youtube later on so i can send it off to my international friends? =)
ZeZwede I hope to be able to upload more episodes with English subtitles in the very near future. Working on it! Tack för att du tittar, och sprider länken :)
People who say the US can't do this are wrong. Sure, Norway's drug and gang problems aren't anywhere near as bad as the US's (because they actually effectively prevented these issues at the grassroots level) but that doesn't mean all criminals in the US are unable to be helped. Don't put sadistic murderers etc in places like this but a misguided person who mugged someone could easily be rehabilitated and educated in a place like this so they have no need to re-offend after release.
Ten years ago there were an armed robbery and a police officer got killed by one of the robbers. Now the killer is being released. This is what the police officers son had to say during a meeting with his fathers killer: Kjetil Klungland (the son) wants to know if Schumann (the killer) have made some reflections on life outside the walls, and then shares a desire he has: "I have a genuine desire that you shall not commit new crimes. I have a deep desire for you to live a law-abiding citizen. I do not know why I have it, but I know for me it is a desire I have" said Klungland to Schumann . "I would almost go so far as to say that if you have any respect for me, you will walk the line" he adds. Schumann look into the eyes of Klungland: "For me, crime is not an option. I will take the lessons learned and apply them in a positive future that is not about crime" he insists. This is what Klungland had to say after it got know that Schumann would be released: "I think it is right that there should be a strong focus on rehabilitation while incarcerated. So it will be interesting to follow them further in the future and see how they choose to use their abilities to contribute to a better society," says Klungland to VG (the newspaper) after it became known that his father's killer will be released, and adds: "Only then will we find out whether they really have been rehabilitated. I have a strong desire for them to use their abilities to contribute, in a good way." I think this pretty much sums up the Norwegian mentalit, why the system is the the way it is and why it works better than most.
Some prisons are in place to rehabilitate criminals. This appears to be one of them. I can see how this would help ready someone for an honest life outside of prison.
Americans are shocked they jail system is not working,its based on private jails (aka more inmates more tax money for the owners of the prisons aka business aka capitalism) System like that does not give a shit about rehabilitation the more inmates the more money for them. Advanced countries that care for their people like the one in the video is the actual rehabilitation centar,no one is raping you,no one is trying to kill you and jail guards are not animals that spend their work time making your life even more miserable. But murder for example if you take a life you should not be able to have a normal life of your own.
lopendepaddo This way works for Norway and Sweden. Our rehabilitation sucks ass. If you treat a psychopath like a psychopath then they will always be one. It is always possible to treat a human no matter how far they have gone. If you treat someone with the same respect you would expect to be treated with they will change and things will change.
lopendepaddo If someone raped my wife, or ran over my kid with a truck, I would want them dead. No two ways about it. But that would be for a while. Time heals wounds if you let it. It would be terrible to meet the person on the street, even after years and years. Thing is though, if I look at it right now, with as intelligent view as I can muster, I would say that the way we actually to it is much better. I am a Norwegian, and I _really_ like our lifestyle. I live a little way outside the city, and don't even lock my car most of the time. My 6 year old daughter walks to the school-bus with her classmate, alone. Not far, but far enough that you would never allow it in the US. I feel safe in backstreets of Oslo, alone in the middle of the night. I don't worry about pretty much anything. You have ten times more prisoners per capita than we do, and three times more of your released prisoners commit crime again. The Nordic model works. It cost less money, it gives a safer society, and it helps prisoners get back to society and start paying tax to "pay back" their cost of being in prison. The family of the victim is mostly content with the punishments, and the family of the prisoners are not completely wrecked. Collateral damage is less. Sure, less prisoners and less recurrence would give less business for prisons, but they are state run, so less cost for everyone is a good thing.
This excerpt highlights the fundamental difference in social philosophy between the nations. It extends beyond prison into every strata of human society.
What are the relative crime rate comparisons here? Mr USA sticking to his own biased, unbacked ideals of how to treat prisonors, without even thinking about the statistics which prove his beliefs are wrong.
Yeah, maybe they address this in other parts of the documentary, but the most important question here is the success rate of rehabilitating the criminals. The American seems to focus only on the punishment, which doesn't mean shit on a society level, i.e. to create a better society without crime.
+Shaun Noland We are not just talking about low crime rates, it is absolutely true that this wouldn't necessarily have a connection if that was the case. What we are talking about here is incarceration rates. The statistics found here www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12 show you the incarceration rates both in Norway and US. Notice that this is per 100.000 people in both countries, so population size doesn't come into play here. The difference is so ridiculous it's almost laughable that some countries still have a prison system like the US has.
This guys seen how poorly his prison system "works"... Has seen how much focus he has to put on stopping violent assault.... Has seen recidivism rates.... and still... with the reality that you have to prepare people for functioning in normal society staring him in the face.... still can't "get it". Hope he has an epiphany by the end. Please ensure this is published online for a global audience as it is important.
You have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of putting people in prison. If it's to make them suffer for the pain they caused to others, then our system is PERFECT. But if it's to make them become functional members of society (Which is what the American prison system claims to be), then we need to take some pointers from these Nordic prisons.
It's nice to see a country that wants their citizens to be rehabilitated, in the untied states its more of a business model that treats the prisoners so inhumanely it feeds recidivism rates.
Is it possible that Nordic system works because maybe just maybe that Nordic criminals are less dangerous than their American counterparts? That rehabilitating them is a much easier task? It is not like Nordic countries have to deal with members of brutal drug cartels in their borders nor do they have to deal with highly dangerous drug lords.
iamcrazyforkittycats I think it's possible, but not probable. Also, I think you're overlooking the drug cartels of the Russian Mafia. If you look at Finland on a map you will notice that It's mostly bordered by Russia (land-wise).
I just think that Mexican drug cartels are more brutal than the Russian Mafia and if you compare the borders between the USA and Mexico vs Finland and Russia, I think I can't deny that the former is more violent than the later. I think rehabilitation is good but I also think that for some criminals, rehabilitation is impossible (ex. psychopaths and serial killers can't be rehabilitated. Once they are released, they start searching for next victims)
You're comparing apples to oranges. Obviously they realize that not everyone can be rehabilitated. The most extreme and famous example is of course the aforementioned Breivik, who sits isolated in a much less luxurious and accomodating (though still human) environment for the rest of his life.
The way this man thinks is the reason why our American jails are overcrowded!! A prison was once called a "Reformatory", what is the purpose sending a person to jail or prison just to release them and have them commit more crime? Norway is showing us how we can change the lives and attitudes of people who have lost their way. Portugal legalized all drugs, now they have less drug addicts and users than ever before. I wonder why?
I find it hilarious how the 'Murican always refers to his prisons as 'Correctional Facilities', which they are NOT! US prisons are in the business of creating returning customers, not rehabilitating the inmates. The Norwegians do not use such false flags, they call their prisons Prisons, but what they actually DO to the hilt is rehabilitation, apparently with a fair amount of success. This tells you all you need to know about the maturity of Norwegian Society vs. US Society.
The recidivism rates show that this method works. Inmates aren't making ice picks out of coat hangers if they're treated well and taught how to live a normal life being treated like human beings.
A thought caught me when the American was pointing out all of the possible weapons. The idea behind this prison appears to be, "yeah, so what? If you treat humans like humans, give them a sense of worth, a hobby to commit to, freedom from constant suffering, why would they want to attack each other?" The issue is, I think the US perspective (on behalf of both the inmates and their guards) is so far removed from this idea that it would be near impossible to implement such a system state side. It's a terrible shame.
The sad truth is that U.S. prisons are not made to rehabilitate, instead they are designed to make money and recidivism is their biggest source of income. Hats off to Norden for actually trying to better human lives and attempting to put an end to the revolving prison gates.
The big difference between the US and some other countries is that we tend to see prison as a punishment for doing a bad thing, where as in other countries (some, not all), they view prison as a place to correct whatever behavior caused you to go there in the first place.
I saw a video where this guy visited Norwegian prisons, and he was flabbergasted! He kept referring to himself as a Correctional Officer and his prison as a Correctional Facility. I do believe he eventually came to realize that the revenge-based prison policy in the US has little or no correctional effect.
Would love to see the whole series available. I used to live in Norway(for 14 years) and am now living in the Southern US(in one of the few liberal cities there!), but the US I came back to after 14 years is very different than what I left...so it would be interesting to see this series which compares aspects etc...
The only shocking thing in this video was James Conways reaction to this prison model. The US can’t get past this puritanical desire to punish people to extraordinary lengths.
This is the difference between a punitive prison system and one based on rehabilitation. Since the 70s the American justice system has turned full-blown punitive and is based on revenge against the perpetrators. You have criminals that only learn suffering, violence, disregard on the outside, which doesn't excuse their crimes. Then they are sent to prison and they only suffer even more humiliation, violence and psychological deterioration. Why do you think so many ex-inmates turn back to a life of crime in the US compared to much lower numbers in countries that use rehabilitation measures? There are definitely perpetrators who might not deserve rehabilitation or can not be rehabilitated, but the huge majority of inmates in the USA never gets a chance for a normal life.
That James Conway person is maybe the worst person ever for doing this kind of bloke. All he did is walk around and judge everything in his close minded little bubble and not think for a second about how rehabilitation might be better than punishment. Just a douchebag. Just walking around pointing out ways everything could be turned into a weapon, Maybe that's your problem mate, all you do is look at everything as voilent and negative and not see any of the positives. I hate that guy allready.
@UC89w6XrR9Cnu2jF2NTu2hPw I also thought this guy was irredeemable. He had such negative attitude. But look at the follow up videos years later when the warden of Halden goes to his prison in New York. By that time he has actually changed. 4-5 years has passed in Halden and only one serious incident has happened there. The Attica warden has to eventually acknowledge the numbers speak for themselves. He slowly realizes the US system does not work. He is far more humble in the second round. The warden of Halden gives a lecture about how the Norwegian system works to the professionals in New York. They seem to recognize their system isn't working but don't know how to change. And I have sympathy for that. There is only so much a progressive warden can do in the US. You really need to change the system at a political level. Also in Norway individual wardens could not change the system. It had to be a top down political change.
In your apartment, you are free to leave. You are free to travel. Free to take a new job. Free to participate in society. You have your liberty. These cells are nice, but the cost is great -- the complete loss of personal liberty.
Estelle Castellano hahahahahaha the cost of my apartment is also great. not to mention i have to pay for electric, water and i'm getting raped by comcast
Estelle Castellano But what if you don't care about any of those things? Wouldn't you just murder someone in Norway to essentially get to live in a hotel for free for the rest of your life?
Swxxt A simple murder wont put you down for the rest of your life, a 10-15year sentence is probably more like it(depending on circumstances). And why would you want to murder someone when we have social security systems that will hook you up with a place to live and enough money for food and other needs without the whole killing thing(you wont be living in luxury, but you'll still have your freedom)?
First off, people are people, regardless of where they are from. Conway has a complete misunderstanding of the goals of this Nordic prison facility, which is to transform former criminals into productive members of society. If you want to reduce recidivism, you need to prepare inmates for the outside world, and a major part of that is treating them like a human. Conway on the other hand, seems only to care about what can be made into a weapon. News flash buddy: most people don't act like animals if they're treated well; it's just that desperation and/or mental issues leads to desperate acts. People act like animals in american prisons because they are treated like animals. For all the commentators claiming this wouldn't work in america, it's because they see the human as the problem, and not the system as the problem. Do you REALLY think the prison population in America is so astronomically out of proportion with the rest of the first world because we just have more intrinsically terrible people? Or do you think that perhaps the ENVIRONMENT these people live in is a more significant factor. I mean, it's not exactly a controversial idea that our environment shapes the kind of person we grow to be, so how do you expect a person taken from a bad environment (poverty) to a worse environment (american prisons) to magically become better as soon as their sentence is up? Oh right, they frequently don't. I wish there was a good rationale for why our system is set up the way it is, but it seems to be as simple as willful ignorance is promoted in order to maintain the highly profitable status quo at the expense of countless human lives. If you want to keep crime and poverty high in america, let's keep the status quo; but if we want to make our country better for EVERYONE, it's time to start treating everyone like the human they have the potential to be.
Sweden is a good country to live in but don't let the luxurious videos fool you cuz if you did a big crime here in Sweden then the society will send you to one of swedens or maybe even be most dangerous prison in hole Scandinavia and the prison called : KUMLA , But sweden has other few hard prisons also called : Hall , Tidaholm and such.. and all this prisons Is classified top 1# security
The American warden saw it as a joke. And I could not say it any better that it is the prison of a prisoner's dream and a utopia. I agree. And that's exactly what a prison should be. He has the completely wrong mindset of someone who has dominion over those weaker than himself. Justice is not meant to be punishment, but rehabilitation. And Norway has it exactly right by thinking about their lives after prison. How do they make this prisoner a better person, to make society better once he leaves. Not how to punish him into getting PTSD and ending up back in there. When I watch shows about the american justice system, like Orange is the New Black. My heart aches at the injustices and I want to go to a prison and be employed there to make their lives a little better. When I see this prison, I see no point. What would be my work has already been done. I commend you Norway. This is exactly the kind of prison Gene Roddenberry had in mind for Star Trek/humanities utopian future.
I don't know a perfect answer. My "best" guess so far is therapy for those who are treatable and execution, as a public safety measure, for those who can't be treated. No prisons, period (though locked wards of treatment centers will sometimes be required.) Yet nothing will work without fixing poverty and medical+mental healthcare.
I went to a military academy in the 1960's, quite frankly, we were held under tighter control in military school than that prison. Note that going to a military school wasn't a punishment of any sort, its an old wives tale that bad boys were sent to military schools, bad boys couldn't get into the military schools, they only accepted above average students. Most of the cadets in military schools are the teenage children of adults who attended military schools. Dicipline, high morals and high character are the key items in military school cadets.
The purpose of out prisons(I'm norwegian) are not to get revenge or to severly punish the inmates. Revenge near the line of torture(that's what taking away peoples human rights is) will only put the stamp on that persons self-image. The result being that he will continue down the bad road. There are enough studies in psychology to confirm this. Instead of punishing the criminal severly, we treat his "mental illness" by giving him the time to reflect, as is a stigma in itself(not the same as being ), no matter the standards of said prison. Following the American model who has the highest incarceration rate of any country; thats would remove that stigma and make it something feared, but not frowned upon. Most that has been to jail atleast once, would not correct their errors. Trauma brings more trauma, care brings more care. It probably is unecessary to state that I am a very liberal person, and that your liberal party would be conservative to me. You would be a fool to put revenge over compassion and understanding, as revenge would only lead to more innocent victims.
LOL an American in a real correctional facility...The people in that prison are Fixed and rehabilitated. Not cages like animals in America. P.S. An an American, Have spent short amounts of time in prison. (3 days was my longest stay) EDIT: also, Fuck that old guy, he has no clue what his is talking about! When has any person part of the American prison system said "we need to focus on getting this person out, Everyone who comes to prison is going to leave." and insuring they have some kind of quality of life after it as well! Kudos To the Norwegian prison system. Im glad you take care of your people. I'm sorry to say my own country does not care nearly as much about its own people.
To address a few points regarding cost, mainly brought by Gordon Tendick: 1. Does anyone have comparative statistics on cost-per-prisoner-per-year for the world's prisons? It seems obvious that the Norwegian system would be more expensive, right? Or is it? Who has higher security costs? 2. Suppose US prisons are cheaper per prisoner. However, recividism is higher. Doesn't this increase the total number of prisoners, thereby pushing costs back up? 3. Even when prison costs are accounted for, what about the cost to society of emotionally and intellectually crippling human beings? As the Onion article put it (yes, I'm quoting a satire website), "Chief warden Albert Gunderson [noted about the prisoner]: "We surrounded him with a combustible mix of rival gangs and made sure that he was consumed by a round-the-clock sense of terror that the slightest misstep on his part could result in a sharpened piece of scrap metal being shoved into his neck, and yet he still leaves this facility with the same criminal thoughts and violent mindset as before? I’m truly at a loss for how this could have happened.”" What human potential and talent is being destroyed by a system obsessed with dogmatic punishment and not pragmatically bettering society?
To offer these kinds of comforts and amenities to prisoners shows a disregard for the suffering they imposed on their victims and their victims families. If this is a facility for rapists and murderers, I'm appalled... On the other hand, this is the ideal facility for non-violent offenders!
Most parts of Scandinavia are not that fascinated with that very American idea that punishment and suffering means justice, the point of a correctional facility should be to correct and educate inmates so they can learn to live in a normal society.
Rehabilitation > Revenge. This has been the known cure for crime and remedy for criminals since the Bronze age. Some nations such as America still haven't learnt, because it's easier to seek revenge than it is to actually do something productive.
No it shows compassion for their next potential victim and the belief that anyone can change when given the proper input. Turning violent offenders into non-violent people comfortable in their skin.
A new episode in the series is now published. It's about gender equality and gender roles in the Nordic society. Maria Kopchenova from Russia meets a Finnish feminist and a Danish masculinist. But what exactly is snow ploughing with a gender perspective? That, and much more, in The Norden - Gender, here: ua-cam.com/video/vMdfQ2MXHB0/v-deo.html
Yet their crime rate is still far lower than in the United States. Deterrents have long been known to have little effect on crime. The best methods for fighting crime are social programs and education. These facts are known and, sadly, ignored by the United States gov't.
John I am now a full fledged fan... I didnt know their are human beings capable of common sense, respect and compassion for fellow human beings en masse. I will do what I can to make sure your programs are viewed here by many as possible.
I'm Norwegian and I hate how well they treat inmates here! it's like he sais, why have prisons at all? so much of my own tax dollars going to treat the person that stole my car, or raped my girlfriend, or robbed my store to luxury beyond most schools! I've paid countless money for my education, and all I had to do was rob a store and get it for free? as well as the food, shelter and entertainment.. a god damn xbox! WHY DO WE HAVE PRISONS? don't say to prepare them for the life outside! if someone raped my daughter I would want justice! Prisons are meant to shield people from dangerous people who are not fit to live in a society! while they're locked up they should live as cheap as possible because they CHOSE to be there, it's their choice.. if they don't like it, it's their own fault.. it's not our job to keep them happy once they decided to "steal other people happiness"
CliffJumpingProd In the USA there are ridiculous prison terms for victimless crimes. For instance mandatory minimums for possession of drugs. These people haven't hurt anyone, but are being locked in cages for years and shunned by society, where after they get out, they can't get a real job. Clearly your Norwegian model works much better.
The answer is you deal with your own past. Revenge isn't the answer, but the perpetum engine for more hate and crimes. This type of correctional facility shouldn't be perceived as something personal or an offense to nobody who got raped or to no family member of a murdered one. With those grieves you deal in other platforms of society and not by revenge...or the idea of a revenge. Your mentality is the main problem with your society. (I'm sorry for my broken English being a second language)
you mistake justice and revenge.. if your kid does something wrong, do you just deal with it or teach them that that was wrong and that actions have consequences..? also, some people are not fit to live in a society, people who doesn't know the difference between mine and yours, who has no regards for other peoples lives, they need to be locked up for the safety of the public..
CliffJumpingProd I don't lock a kid in a cage for years with a bunch of violent thugs because he screwed up. I think the Norwegian recidivism rate vs. The USA's recidivism rate really tells us all we need to know about which approach works. The USA's system isn't about correction as it says, its about punishment. As a result there are a terrible number of ex-cons that just re-offend. The deterrence model has failed.
Man kan rehabilitere fangene i et vanelig fengsel.. man trenger ikke bygge et fire stjerners ferie kompleks til de, det er langt over grensa. De har tross alt valgt å være der selv. Ingen blir tvunget til å sone! Så hvorfor skal vi spandere et musikk studio, xbox og flatsjerm tv til hver 10. fange? Og all statistikken er villedende, fordi norge er et så rikt land har alle folk så utrolig mange muligheter og tilbud fra mydighetene. Kommer man ut så får man masse muligheter på skattebetalerenes regning, er man arbeidsledig får man dagpenger av nav. Det er ikke noe grunn til å være kriminell som nordmann. De eneste norske som soner er folk som stjeler for å ha det gøy, som er voldelige i fylla og folk som er avhengi av narkotika og har bygget opp en grusom narko gjeld og trenger penger raskt osv. Men det ingen vil si noe om er at disse fantastiske fengselene og de latterlige korte straffene har gjort norge til et utopia for kriminelle over hele verden! Big win, small risk! husker ikke nøyaktig hva tallene var, men tror det var på "insider" på MAX at de sa at 75% av fanger var ikke norske.. Fengselene våre tiltrekker seg kriminalitet fra hele verden........ det er ikke et bra system spør du meg.
Too bad they didn't mention the number of stabbing incidents occurring in this prison, I'm sure they wouldn't have those tools around if the inmates were half as violent as their American counterparts. How arrogant to assume the culture of violence is the same in these different societies. There may be a few criminal gangs in Norway, but it's not like they kill each other because they wear different colours. And by questioning the existence of music instruments/lessons (which actually exist in American prisons too), one could also wonder why there are basketball courts in American prisons - to prepare them for a basketball career once they get out?
How is this prison correctional? I would imagine it would attract criminals seeing as they don't have to suffer. A lot of people rob banks, steal cars, jewelry, etc. so they can go to prison for health care, food, and shelter. This is prison is ideal for a criminal! By the way, what's wrong with murderers and rapists being treated like animals?
Jonathan Smith Hey Jonathan, not sure yet if it will be broadcast in the UK, but the full episode can be seen here: ua-cam.com/video/HfEsz812Q1I/v-deo.html
So you're telling me that some inmates are having a much better and fulfilling life for free than the one I have as a law abiding citizen. That's... great. I guess... _curls up and cries_
no it mean that they want the inmate to change for the better. all America wants is free labor so they make sure their inmates dont change. they want them back in the system. these guys want them to be able to leave and not come back. they treat them like humans, not dogs of the state. our major problem her is all of our prisons are for profit companies. they look at the bottom line. rehab costs money to do and you are not guaranteed them to return. forced labor camps, an atmosphere of violence/drugs and a bleak future actually make money for them and it also gives them an 80% chance they will return for another 10+ years. i get what you are saying about them being treated better than most, they might not want to leave or do something to get it back. but that is not true. they teach them skills to make their life outside better. it also forces them to get off drugs/booze. they are not forced to live in a tiny apartment with 10 other guys, where they cant leave. their freedom is still taken but they now have the keys to better future. where-as our system wants none of that. funny that we have such strict systems yet there is still violence, drugs, booze and rapes.
It's amazing to Americans how humanitarian they are in regards to prisons - Varg Vikernes (Burzum) was recording and putting out records the whole 21 years he spent in prison (BTW 21 years is the longest prison term anyone can possibly get in Norway) Instead of breaking people's spirit like they do in American prisons they try to heal them so they can eventually integrate back into society. Overall American society is still a medieval feudal system based on kicking people when they're down instead of trying to help them. In America unless you are born wealthy and have friends in high places you are basically struggling your whole life in this country. and do not have equal rights especially if you are a single woman/mother. Everyone in Scandinavian countries are given a huge retirement even if they have never worked a day in their life, and nobody is living in fear that they will be on the street in their old age or any age. The thinking is that everyone deserves to live a good life, and everyone deserves an education (free college) and in this way makes society happier overall. Single mothers are a norm in Scandinavian society when they are still shunned in America. There is 100% literacy in Scandinavia as well compared to 70% in this country.
Here is the difference between a mind set. One (US) focuses on punishment and releases non-rehabilitated prisoners. and one (Norway) focuses on rehabilitation and releases citizens. Would be good to see the follow up of those released.
Hey, thanks for watching. The full episode can be seen here: The Norden - Nordic Prisons An excerpt from the episode about religion - where an American pastor visits the secular Nordic countries - can be seen here: The Norden - Religion
I'm norwegian, and a student at a school where I study Music, Dance and Drama, with music as my main class. They have a better studio than we got at our school. And I'm not even a prisoner. I don't see the logic, but one thing is sure ass hell. I will find a way to get to that prison
What about the difference in population makeup between Norway and the U.S.? I mean overall. The U.S.'s vast cultural spectrum makes a lot of the Nordic policies difficult to efficiently implement. Please correct me if I'm wrong, i'm actually trying to learn.
Watch: Store gutter gråter ikke . Big boys don't cry . From older days 94 or something..And check out Trond Henriksen, how he is doing now, on his Facebook. Even though that prison was absolutely nothing like Halden, they started sending addicts to rehab and serve there ,if they managed not to relapse, too often. Is possible to find on UA-cam.
To Deb Haplocena: if you're interested in more stuff from the Finnish Broadcasting Company YLE, try our streaming site areena.yle.fi Our programs are almost exclusively in Finnish or Swedish, but you can at least get acquainted with some stuff. Our website is www.yle.fi Thanks, John
I would think it depends... if you had residency there or not. I know that there have been times where some asylum seekers would rather commit a crime and be put in one of these jails than be sent back 'home' to face whatever fate awaited them. I lived in Norway for 14 years. For the most part, there were far fewer violent crimes in Norway, and police rarely carry guns. While I was there, there was a case of two teenage boys who raped and murdered two girls under age 10 in my town. It was such a shockingly violent crime that they even had FBI experts come in. Needless to say, I'm sure Anders Brievik's terrorist bombings and attack on the students on Utøya is probably the most extreme act in Norway since WWII, and changed a lot of people's viewpoint of their world in Norway forever. One of the teen boys killed went to school with my daughter in Kristiansand. With Brievik, he technically got the harshest possible sentence...21 years... however, he will likely remain in prison indefinitely, as after that 21 years, he is evaluated as to if he is still a threat to society every few years(I think every 5), and kept in as long as he is seen as a threat. I believe there is a far lower rate of recidivism among Norwegian criminals... where here, the conditions in the prison often seem to make the criminals worse as people when they come out of jail again. I believe the focus of Norwegian prisons is more a matter of both protecting the public as well as rehabilitation of the individual rather than just a focus on punishment.
US prisons are about punishment, not rehabilitation. Even the parole system often forbids you to work once you get out, while they threaten to send you back to prison unless you can get money for treatment, fines, parole costs. There is a lot of money to be made by the police & guard system in running prisons. They want to keep as many people in the system as possible. I knew a gal who was a school teacher and her husband would sometimes smoke pot due to help with nausea from his cancer therapy. One day, they pulled over their car, found the a joint in the car and arrested both of them. She was inexperienced with the system and was tricked into probation and drug treatment. When she went to the classes, they said that she was in denial because she didn't use drugs. So they said she failed treatment, a judge then sent her to prison for two years. Her husband died shortly after that from the cancer. She lost her house and her job. They took away all her kids and put them up for adoption to other families. They completely destroyed her life, and by the time she got out, she had lost all reason to live and was homeless for several years. She is incapable of work now and lives off of disability. The cost to society of incarceration is not just for running the prison system, but also the cost of dealing with their mental illness from acquired PTSD for the experience and the loss of taxes from their wages due to their disenfranchisement even if they can still work.
John Stark Yeah. I just watched it and really liked it. I can't wait till the other episodes are translated. I found it because of a link to the clip about religion and would like to see that one, too. What I enjoyed most when I watched the full episode about the prison system is that I could totally understand both sides. I think James Conway has a point sometimes because really violent offenders could abuse this more lenient system much easier and I also understand the sentiment to make an inmate "pay a little" for what they did. But at the end of the day what counts is the amount of people that can be successfully re-integrated into society that stay law-abiding. This is something that I think the nordic approach does very well by treating them well, educating them and not giving them the feeling of being bad people. I had the "chance" to see an american jail from the inside when I was taken in after I was pulled over for speeding because I didn't have an american drivers license. Georgia enacted that law to crack down on illegal immigrants but now regular tourists also have to go through the same procedure. As a german that was a very scary experience because nothing ever felt as intimidating to me as this facility. The thing that was most unnerving was the fact that the staff there was in no way able to help you with anything. I luckily got out after doing all the paperwork and waiting for two hours but what if someone is arrested by mistake or just guilty of a very minor crime? There is just no talking to these people. Once in there the only way out is through a judge that is miles away and may not even hear your case anytime soon. I have the feeling that the guards in a nordic prison would be much more helpful and understanding. The human component is still present there. The american system feels utterly inhumane. Much like a slaughterhouse or a big scary cow stable. Well. Anyway. You made a really kick-ass documentary there and I can't wait to see the following episodes.
Hey, you don't explain in this shot what happens with the aggressive prisoners - they actually can not be locked in this kind of a prison. As a matter of fact, for them you need the one as Attica.
Well it clearly works why should it be changed just look at the stats Incarceration rates: Norway: 71 for every 100,000 people United States: 743 for every 100,000 (in 2009) Recidivism rate: Norway: 20% United States: 50%-60%
Really looking forward to seeing this. I got busted while I was in the US in Texas for a tiny amount of weed and got a crash course in county jail. Wild, wild stuff.
He makes good points but I think they're pretty much all put to rest when you ask "but does it work?" It does. So we can get as riled up about prisoner luxuries as we like but I'd much rather live in a safer, cleaner society where a prisoner gets some mental stimulation than live in a train wreck of a society like the US where prisoners get treated terribly.
And here we see two different views of how to run a prison, and the role that a prison serves in society. The Norwegian prison has the philosophy "these inmates will be leaving one day, let's make sure they are rehabilitated and have the skills required to NOT EVER come back". The American prison, on the other hand, is all about punishment, and it doesn't care if you are reformed or hardened when you leave.
In the case of this particular theme, regarding prisons and the penal system, it's in a way like you describe. One of the quotes that stuck with me from the recording of this series was one that mr Jan Strømnes, the Halden representant in the clip, said: "the Norwegian model is that of an iron hand in a silk glove". Mr Conway's experience and values are also quite clearly presented in the clip. The role of this series though is to let the viewer decide "whose side you're on"; that's not up to us. We merely present different aspects, different perspectives, values, attitudes.
I'm IMPRESSED - but I wish you would have given us something at the end - saying this is Part 1 or ___ or show some #s on how this works (which I have a feeling it REALLY DOES). Instead I'm walking away feeling disturbed & I'm not any solution to it. Perhaps you can add a note to this John as it's REALLY WELL DONE. Ok - now I'm seeing another video from you so I'll watch it now.
Imagine an inmate that can come out and have such a good jop that he can repay his crimes to society, not in worthless time, but in money, now that's what I call a successful system.
+greymatter51 Oh, and he thinks a recording studio is over the top? God forbid we teach inmates anything beside a high school level education, fixing cars or radios!?!?!?!?
For Americans, the concept of the nordic model is so foreign that US will NEVER be able to adapt to this model. But we have proved that by NOT treating criminals like animals they have a higher chance of not returning to a life of crime and becoming a productive member of society as they should be, but treat them like garbage like they do in UD and many other countries then of course they will behave like an animals and return to prison, because for many of them its the only life they in a really ironic way, they feel safest.
OP here. I'm the producer of this series, and I'm one of a team of four persons here at the Finnish Broadcasting Company Yle behind this series.
The starting point of the whole series was to ask some fundamental questions regarding the so called Nordic welfare model, and the Nordic society. It has by and large been hailed as a great success story, and when you look at several statistics regarding quality of life, generally speaking, the Nordic countries are more often than not in the top tier. We wanted to question how we run our society. What values do we have? How do we live our lives here up north? The method we wanted to use was simple; offer a global perspective on these issues. Therefore, each episode has a theme of its own. We invite a guest from another country, which in general has another viewpoint. How does she/he experience the Nordic model?
This episode, regarding correctional facilities in the Nordic countries, will be broadcast in Finland on Tuesday, Oct. 21, 2014, and the next five episodes are broadcast weekly. The series will also be broadcast in Sweden, Denmark and Norway. All episodes are streamed on arenan.yle.fi, but as yet I have not been able to get the episodes subtitled in English. Most conversations in the episodes are in English though. I'm working on getting the series translated.
Thanks! I'm from New Zealand, and I am VERY interested in watching your series. I sincerely hope you will get them translated. I have to say, in general I am ideologically very supportive of prisons like the one seen in this video. I think it's a fantastic example for the world to follow. I've always thought depriving someone of their liberty is punishment enough. We get ONE life, about 80 short years each if we're lucky. To forcibly take someone's freedom at the behest of the state, and lock them away in a place they cannot escape, for a significant portion of their life, is an extreme act which should not be done lightly, especially considering the unequal society we live in. Definitely the rehabilitation model is exemplary and consistent with humanitarian ideals where we treat people with a baseline level of respect, without inflicting psychological punishment for crimes that the individual may only be partially fully responsible for (considering our unfair and unequal society which breeds antisocial behaviour).
Anyway that's my take on it. I look forward to seeing more of the programme.
Estelle Castellano
Hey Estelle, great to hear! I'll keep you updated.
John Stark Hey, I saw the ad on tv and it really got my interest. Is there a way to watch the whole series online somewhere now or does it come to Yle Areena when it has aired?
2mad2behere
Hey 2mad2behere, thanks for your interest! The episodes are published on the Yle Areena streaming service once they've been broadcast in Finland. The first episode is aired tomorrow, Tuesday Oct. 21st at 7 PM local time (GMT+2) in Finland, and thus online from that point onward.
I am so happy to see this. Just last night I was in a long debate with a coworker on the function and purpose of correctional facilities. His argument consisted of, 'If we make prisons too comfortable, some people would rather be in prison than be in the free world. So they don't have to work, and receive free health care, education, etc.'
So to be able to strengthen my counter argument against him I am very interested to see the reincarceration rate, rehabilitation rate, and the post-release job rate for inmates in the Nordic countries.
Still, in my mind, helping society is the only purpose of a prison. Some people (i.e. murderers) are such a danger to society that they need to be kept separate. But for every single person who can be rehabilitated, that should be our primary goal. Every person should leave prison more educated and in a better mental condition than they arrived - so that afterwards they may be a benefit to society, instead of a continued drain and a repeat offender.
Americans tend not to like this idea... we are a nation so obsessed with punishment we completely overlook what most benefits society.
"Who cares how they feel" - you'll care when eventually they're released back into society.
Anything that paints America in less than the best possible light is anti-American propaganda. You tool. You dolt.
@@OkarinHououinKyouma
I can confirm. Im from Finland and this program is published in Finnish on our leftist media. This is made for political use.
@@OkarinHououinKyouma America is anti-America propaganda.
@@jaskakikkeritoivasdewqsdw2174 go live in usa. Looks like facism will greet you.
the point of this prison seems to actually be rehabilitation and correction.
dryanmorr Then again, only 27% of Norwegian prisoners return to prison, where the US number is 70%. With 10x the number of prisoners per capita, the pure economics in it is very good. Norway spends double per prisoner, but has 1/10 the number. Per capita that is. So resort or not, the end result is a safer society. I'll go with that any day of the week.
kodez79
As for the 1/4 of the re-offending population will continue to commit crimes and go to luxury.
There has to be a limit in which it is said that you will be punished for doing evil acts... not rewarded with what essentially is a hotel.
***** yes ignore the results.
timmy vindiesel
Yes, ignore the 27% of repeat offenders and continue to provide them luxury regardless of their disregard...
73%... lovely great. Shows that a focus on rehabilitation works and is good. But ignoring 27% just because its a low number is arrogant and insulting to victims that never get justice.
***** somethings works better than the current method lets just ignore it.
Treating people like shit does not make them want to become better people. But surrounding people in a comfortable in environment where people treat you like humans... Well that might just make you change your whole outlook on life and change you for the better. Norway might be onto something here... Wtf USA.
Exactly. The American in this clip is only focused on the punishment, which solves absolutely nothing (on a society level, ofc it helps relatives/victims through the grief). All that matter is: are the criminal going to change it's behavior? Pure punishment is not effective, it leads to more anger.
You'll have a much different perspective when the inmate is the one who raped your 12 year old, cut her up and tossed her dismembered body in the trash. Yeah, that sounds great to have people like that living in a place like this. Or a dirty white collar investor who managed to con hundreds of people out of their hard earned money which caused them to be without house or home, now barely living in debt as they simply hope to feed their children, yup, I want these inmates living it up like this, *hell no.*
*You simply don't get it because a crime most likely hasn't been committed truly affecting your life.*
neil78b
If you take a person that raped a 12 year old and punish them by treating them like an animal are they going to rape again when they get out.... probably, if you sort out the underlying problem over the many years they are incarcerated you can prevent them returning to a life of crime. If a rapist spends 10 years in a place like this he will be able to return to society a changed person having paid his time.
But i also believe there are more secure prisons for more serious criminals, there must be right.
.
My friends grandmother was the subject of a home invasion robbery and attempted rape. I couldn't imagine a society that would give a PS2 to a person like that ..... the show doesn't properly show us the area of the prison where they keep the really dangerous offenders, so it's not like comparing apples to apples here.
Andrew Brown
Like I said, let this happen to someone that means the world to you personally, you will think quite differently, otherwise, you have no point what so ever.
This looks like it would teach inmates social skills, skills for living with people who are different from them or who they might disagree with, and skills on how to express their emotional side in ways that aren't violent or criminal.
Give people some secure self respect and they start respecting others. Give inmates something worth while, and they start thinking about becoming worth while.
Exactly. You get it.
Yes. People to a great degree adapt to the way in which they're treated.
I was taught that the prison system was for rehabilitation. Mr. Conway doesn't seem to understand that concept.
You'd make a better warden than he is.
Prisons are meant to shield people from the dangerous people who are not fit to live in a society! while they're locked up they should live as cheap as possible because they CHOSE to be there, it's their choice.. if they don't like it, it's their own fault.. it's not our job to keep them happy once they decided to "steal other people happiness"
They may have broken a law, but they remain human. And, as I stated previously, they are there for rehabilitation and re entry to society.
Russell La Claire we need more people like you in charge.
Russell La Claire I wonder what your kids are like if you don't punish them when they do something wrong.. sorry to make it personal, im just saying that we need justice.. There was this case in Norway, were a guy tortured and raped two small girls around 10 years old, and then killed them.. that was about 14 years ago and he is now a free man, someones neighbor. Not only is he a tremendous danger to society, but think of the mother and family to those little girls... do you think he has paid for his crime? Do you think he is rehabilitated and able to function in society?
yes we should prepare inmates for the world outside, but there is a limit and our concern should not be how we can make life as good as possible for the inmates, at tax payers cost. They deserve and need the very least amount of care of all the other things in society we could spend money and time on. We can also prepare them for the world outside from a prison that actually looks like a prison. I'm not saying we need gang wars, rape and stabbing like the worlds worst prisons, but we need prisons, not hotels with locked doors! it's absurd!
The european human rights court has established that prison is only supposed to deprive you of the right to freedom. Every other right under the convention should be respected as far as it is possible under the circumstances. I really like that convention:)
So... the only people who aren't stupid are adult men who never smile? ok lolll
Jimbo Jones The human rights are strongly influenced by utilitarism (and natural law). Trying to rehabilitate law breakers will do far more good in the long run that punishing them. If you punish law breakers harshly, they are less likely to rehabilitate, which could cause them to break the law again when they are released. This would send them back into prison, which would be a total waste of tax money. Catching a criminal, giving him a fair trial and paying prison costs is very expensive. This money would be far better spent on help for the elderly or fighting social injustice etc. The goal should be to try to keep people from doing something bad in the first place. The fear of prison is actually very ineffective. Rehabilitation seems to be more effective.
Furthermore, I would like to add that the people who develop human rights treaties are very intelligent, experienced people. They are basing their work on the work of philosophers and scientist. It is a bit arrogant to assume they are totally wrong.
I have to say
, prisons in my country (Poland) are still miles better than the barbaric, for-profit slavery internment camps that American prisons are, and my jaw still dropped when I saw silverware and tools so easily accessible to prisoners.
But you know what they say; if it sounds stupid but it works, it isn't stupid, Mr Conway. Norway, lowest recidivism rate in world. Seems that investing in rehabilitation and treating people in prison like actual people works wonders for reintroducing them into society.
@UCW2NTRMkgFPqBwifneAsPHw, very interesting perspective you are adding there. I have no knowledge of Polish prisons. I had thought that Poland as a poorer country than the US and somewhat conservative would have had quite harsh prisons. But if your prisons are much better than the US prisons, I think that is rather embarrassing to America. You guys have had democracy for a much shorter time and is less wealthy.
Could you give some examples of how Polish prisons are better than US prisons? Do inmates have more privacy? Better food? Is there less crime/violence inside the prisons? Are guards more humane? The world outside of Scandinavia and Anglo-Saxon world is sadly too unknown. I actually kind of like seeing how Netflix have more foreign series/movies now. You can see a bit more of what life is like in other countries besides LA and New York ;-D
@@erikengheim1106 So before I begin, I will say that I have a dual citizenship via jus sanguinis, and I'm both American and Polish and I have spent many years in the USA, so I have some experience in both worlds.
Yes, Poland is generally a poorer country than the US, but then again, it's on average since you have to consider that the US has the richest people and corporations and the most billionaires and millionaires living in it, but it also has sprawling ghettos, tent cities for the homeless and large areas in complete dilapidation. Poland, although having poorer and wealthier areas of its own, does not have inequalities to the same degree as the US.
And I'm not sure whether you're American, but although Poland is a conservative country, being conservative in Poland is very different than being conservative in America. The only overlap is on some "cultural" issues, like homophobia, religion, etc.
The biggest difference between Polish and American prisons for starters, is that Polish prisons are not as ridiculously overcrowded. There are no private prisons, they are all publicly owned and under the control of the Ministry of Justice, there is no profit incentive to have as many prisoners as possible or lobby the government to enact more strict laws and longer prison sentences. We have around 70,000 prisoners in the entire country, while in America it's somewhere around 2 million. So I guess with being less overcrowded comes a bit more privacy, though inmates usually are held by 2 or more in their cells.
Secondly, prison guards have less authority, certainly way less lethal authority. It's kind of a pain being a prison guard dealing with bored inmates here, from what I've learned. uthorities in Poland in general aren't "shooty" like in America, so it's extremely rare to hear of someone being killed in custody by them.
Prison food is actually better than hospital food, which isn't saying much considering that hospital food is indigestible on a good day and lethal on a bad one.
Violence still happens, drugs are smuggled in, snitches are hunted down, etc. No mass riots like in American prisons where you have to call in the National Guard or something, again, since the small population of prisoners.
@@czajkowski2352 Thanks Piotr interesting info. I am actually Norwegian but we have quite a lot of Polish people in Norway. I never discussed prison policy with them though.
I honestly don't know much about Polish politics but the little I have read has given me quite a negative impression. The ones in power these days seem ultra conservative. Was it a major or something who got murdered on stage or something after he had been hated by the right-wing party in charge for some time.
That is why I got the impression that Poland was run by people that reminded me of Republicans in the US. Which made me think Polish views on things like prison and crime might be similar to that of Americans.
So please don't be upset if this is totally wrong. I am just describing the impressions I have gotten from the few articles I have read. Not everything I have read about Poland is negative. I have also read about what an amazing long term economic growth Poland has had and how good school system it has developed.
Poland featured in a book I read about the best school systems in the world.
@@erikengheim1106 Yep, the current majority party is very conservative honestly even reactionary, *fanatically* catholic, and with authoritarian tendencies (here my political leanings are being exposed, lol) but not really comparable to Republicans, since we don't have those types of parties that aggressively dismantle public institution, cut taxes, deregulate and privatize like the Anglosphere does. For example, that conservative party has been winning elections by expanding the social safety net, for instance by providing what amounts to UBI for all people with children. This is not something that Republicans would do, EVER.
And don't worry about criticizing Poland. Although complaining about the country is polish peoples' favorite pastime activity, polish patriots tend to become _very upset_ when foreigners speak wrongly of their nation (I still remember the national meltdown when Obama accidentally called concentration camps built by Germans on Polish soil "Polish concentration camps"). But I personally don't mind and don't care. I'm no patriot, there are many places that I would rather to live than here if I weren't already set up, Norway certainly being one such place as I was very impressed the one time I was on vacation there.
@@czajkowski2352
Thanks, a lot of interesting perspective there. Especially how your conservatives are not really the ones cutting on welfare.
Our conservatives are not as extreme as the Americans, but like them their platform is very much about tax cuts for corporations and the rich, privatization etc. However they are not religious. One of the best known conservative politicians for years in Norway was gay.
> Although complaining about the country is polish peoples' favorite pastime activity
Kind of like that in Norway too :-D Except now it is a bit mixed. Due to all the success from oil, the big oil fund and topping all sort of international statistics we have gotten a bit of reputation for bragging too much. But in my defense I will claim Norwegian patriotism is a bit more humble than American. We are well aware that we are a pretty small and not all that important country. We have long had inferiority complexes about being in the shadow of Sweden. And it feels a bit like we cheated to win. We got the oil. We didn't build Volvo, IKEA and H&M.
And I also think it is also far more excepted in Norway and Europe in general to be negative. While living in the US I felt Americans had a very strong pressure on them to always be positive and come across as winners and success. Saying life currently sucks is more accepted here.
I feel I can share that with Polish colleagues I have worked with. Talking shit and complaining is totally fine. We can kind of bond over that. I actually think it is kind of healthy. The positivity cult is a bit toxic IMHO. You got to be able to point out things that don't work to be able to learn and move forward. As long as you are not being mean and shitting on people.
> Norway certainly being one such place as I was very impressed the one time I was on vacation there.
You know I am actually quite proud to have read statistics that say Polish people settling Norway are more likely to stay than elsewhere in Europe. Means we must have done some things right.
The thing is. If you know no one else is trying to kill you, you're not going to around harming people. In American prisons you have to have a weapon to protect yourself in a lot of cases.
That's not a cause, that's a result.
Good hypothesis. It makes sense.
taras jia Correct. I live close to one of these mental institutions, and have no problem taking my kids for a walk around the hospital, which is a completely open area, and very nice. This is somewhat rose-tinted view, but most of it is accurate: This Country Beats France
Last part about a prison. I love the way the US TV hosts comes up with a lot of "facts" that they base on exactly nothing. "The hospital system is terrible in France, terrible in Great Britain.". How do the US population let them get away with these lies on live TV?
ChappedNegroLips I'm not living in a buble. I never even mentioned the system what are you on about? The American war on drugs has fucked up and incarcerated the country (and large parts of Mexico) in so many ways. It's great to see some states changing policies on weed for instance! I couldn't even imagine the gang life until I was in Cali myself shit, nothing like Amsterdam, murder is so rare over here that it's national news for three days.
Honestly I think this is extremely smart. You're not just throwing someone away for 10+ years acting like they dont exist. You're treating them like real people and preparing them for life on the outside when their time there is done. You're educating your inmates in subjects they may never have tried or known about! Giving them interests and things to keep thier mind busy instead of fear and rage.
If you treat a man like a beast he will eventually become one.
***** What are you even saying?
If a man is a beast, should be treated like one.
I agree, he is still a human beings and they should always be treated like human beings
@@yonissaid4057 OK, then prepare to create more and more beasts to satisfy your lust for punishment.
Why American prisons are not like this? Why America has the largest incarceration rate of any other country by a long shot? Because the prison system in America is a business just like everything else is in America. Providing that many toys and nice things to inmates all across the country would mean spending money. In the American prison system I can imagine that just about everything goes to the lowest bidder to keep the top's pockets even thicker. They don't care about the people in the prisons. They don't want to help them, they keep them there, sometimes wrongly convicted, just to sit there and take punishment for as long as possible so they can keep collecting money. There are still people in prison in this country for selling a plant that they grew themselves(marijuana) just to make some money in a country where the minimum wage is non-livable and a decent college education that does not guarantee a job is far too expensive for the value that it holds. Now, putting a hippie who smokes weed and grows his own weed to make money because maybe he didn't have the upbringing to attend a prestigious college and doesn't have any outstanding skills, but he grows a plant that is not as bad for you as legal alcohol is and will not kill you, just make you happy, lazy and hungry. A plant that has been on this planet longer than the prisons have been on this planet. This person is in the same leagues as actual dangerous drug dealers(heroin, meth, crack, bath salts) rapists, murderers? Yes you can go on Government hand outs but only to the cost of the taxpayers. We live in a backwards broken system that needs to be fixed. How it is going to be fixed? I have no idea, I still have no fucking idea how I am supposed to pay off my already 60 grand in student loan debt and I am not even done with college yet! Fuck America, everyone is oblivious, idiotic and ignorant here. Scandinavia and Germany have long surpassed America as the top places where I want to live.
Modokun The thing is.... He's not wrong.
FriedrichAmsel He is. He also doesn't look a day over 16. But if you want to believe what he says, 15 year old students have written great essays on Twilight if you'd like to read them for legitimate facts.
All I speak is the truth. If you would like to dispute me then please lay out something that is more than two sentences.
Modokun Would you like to provide some evidence too?
Modokun Well, there are people in prison for selling and smoking marijuana. That is a fact. America has the largest number of people incarcerated. That is a fact. If you are still so uninformed about America, read this article which basically outlines that the US military gets many many things made for them by a captive workforce. It's just about as close to slavery as you can get in this country and guess who is mostly involved, black people and Hispanics.
www.globalresearch.ca/the-prison-industry-in-the-united-states-big-business-or-a-new-form-of-slavery/8289
"why have them in prison anyway" This guy works in a prison and doesn't understand that prisons also function to separate criminals from the normal populace. Aside from the obvious fact that no amount of toys are worth losing your freedom for.
The Norden -series was one of the best series I had ever seen. I wish Yle would make a few episodes more. It's such an interesting thing to see two different Worlds collide with each other.
Here's the complete first episode with subtitles in English: ua-cam.com/video/HfEsz812Q1I/v-deo.html
Please feel free to share the URL. Thank you for your comments and your interest!
This is brilliant. Seriously.
You are clashing the american dream vs. the nordic life. Thanks for this.
Brilliant. as a swede i can of course watch straight from the source, but will translations and uploads happen on youtube later on so i can send it off to my international friends? =)
ZeZwede
I hope to be able to upload more episodes with English subtitles in the very near future. Working on it! Tack för att du tittar, och sprider länken :)
ZeZwede
Här är hela avsnittet om religion, med engelsk undertext. Titta och sprid gärna :) The Norden - Religion
nice! sharing it out :D Realy interesting concept.
People who say the US can't do this are wrong. Sure, Norway's drug and gang problems aren't anywhere near as bad as the US's (because they actually effectively prevented these issues at the grassroots level) but that doesn't mean all criminals in the US are unable to be helped. Don't put sadistic murderers etc in places like this but a misguided person who mugged someone could easily be rehabilitated and educated in a place like this so they have no need to re-offend after release.
You put potheads and drug dealers, whores and nonviolent offenders like martha stewart in here
David Zysk
no they all go in together, that way when they come out, they are already addicted to worse and more violent.
I agree. The US can do this, they just don't want to.
***** I'd want prison for them, not revenge. I can't even stand the sight of blood, so stop making assumptions about me
This is like being stuck in an IKEA for years. I can't imagine a more terrible fate.
See Attica
Ten years ago there were an armed robbery and a police officer got killed by one of the robbers. Now the killer is being released. This is what the police officers son had to say during a meeting with his fathers killer:
Kjetil Klungland (the son) wants to know if Schumann (the killer) have made some reflections on life outside the walls, and then shares a desire he has:
"I have a genuine desire that you shall not commit new crimes. I have a deep desire for you to live a law-abiding citizen. I do not know why I have it, but I know for me it is a desire I have" said Klungland to Schumann .
"I would almost go so far as to say that if you have any respect for me, you will walk the line" he adds.
Schumann look into the eyes of Klungland:
"For me, crime is not an option. I will take the lessons learned and apply them in a positive future that is not about crime" he insists.
This is what Klungland had to say after it got know that Schumann would be released:
"I think it is right that there should be a strong focus on rehabilitation while incarcerated. So it will be interesting to follow them further in the future and see how they choose to use their abilities to contribute to a better society," says Klungland to VG (the newspaper) after it became known that his father's killer will be released, and adds:
"Only then will we find out whether they really have been rehabilitated. I have a strong desire for them to use their abilities to contribute, in a good way."
I think this pretty much sums up the Norwegian mentalit, why the system is the the way it is and why it works better than most.
Some prisons are in place to rehabilitate criminals. This appears to be one of them. I can see how this would help ready someone for an honest life outside of prison.
This is a high security prison in Norway.
Americans are shocked they jail system is not working,its based on private jails (aka more inmates more tax money for the owners of the prisons aka business aka capitalism)
System like that does not give a shit about rehabilitation the more inmates the more money for them.
Advanced countries that care for their people like the one in the video is the actual rehabilitation centar,no one is raping you,no one is trying to kill you and jail guards are not animals that spend their work time making your life even more miserable.
But murder for example if you take a life you should not be able to have a normal life of your own.
lopendepaddo This way works for Norway and Sweden. Our rehabilitation sucks ass. If you treat a psychopath like a psychopath then they will always be one. It is always possible to treat a human no matter how far they have gone. If you treat someone with the same respect you would expect to be treated with they will change and things will change.
eovogt Ok, i concede to your point, edit: "as with [some] psychopaths" :)
lopendepaddo If someone raped my wife, or ran over my kid with a truck, I would want them dead. No two ways about it. But that would be for a while. Time heals wounds if you let it. It would be terrible to meet the person on the street, even after years and years. Thing is though, if I look at it right now, with as intelligent view as I can muster, I would say that the way we actually to it is much better. I am a Norwegian, and I _really_ like our lifestyle. I live a little way outside the city, and don't even lock my car most of the time. My 6 year old daughter walks to the school-bus with her classmate, alone. Not far, but far enough that you would never allow it in the US. I feel safe in backstreets of Oslo, alone in the middle of the night. I don't worry about pretty much anything. You have ten times more prisoners per capita than we do, and three times more of your released prisoners commit crime again. The Nordic model works. It cost less money, it gives a safer society, and it helps prisoners get back to society and start paying tax to "pay back" their cost of being in prison. The family of the victim is mostly content with the punishments, and the family of the prisoners are not completely wrecked. Collateral damage is less. Sure, less prisoners and less recurrence would give less business for prisons, but they are state run, so less cost for everyone is a good thing.
This excerpt highlights the fundamental difference in social philosophy between the nations. It extends beyond prison into every strata of human society.
What are the relative crime rate comparisons here? Mr USA sticking to his own biased, unbacked ideals of how to treat prisonors, without even thinking about the statistics which prove his beliefs are wrong.
Yeah, maybe they address this in other parts of the documentary, but the most important question here is the success rate of rehabilitating the criminals. The American seems to focus only on the punishment, which doesn't mean shit on a society level, i.e. to create a better society without crime.
+Shaun Noland We are not just talking about low crime rates, it is absolutely true that this wouldn't necessarily have a connection if that was the case. What we are talking about here is incarceration rates. The statistics found here www.businessinsider.com/why-norways-prison-system-is-so-successful-2014-12 show you the incarceration rates both in Norway and US. Notice that this is per 100.000 people in both countries, so population size doesn't come into play here. The difference is so ridiculous it's almost laughable that some countries still have a prison system like the US has.
This guys seen how poorly his prison system "works"... Has seen how much focus he has to put on stopping violent assault.... Has seen recidivism rates.... and still... with the reality that you have to prepare people for functioning in normal society staring him in the face.... still can't "get it". Hope he has an epiphany by the end. Please ensure this is published online for a global audience as it is important.
You have to ask yourself, what is the purpose of putting people in prison. If it's to make them suffer for the pain they caused to others, then our system is PERFECT. But if it's to make them become functional members of society (Which is what the American prison system claims to be), then we need to take some pointers from these Nordic prisons.
It's nice to see a country that wants their citizens to be rehabilitated, in the untied states its more of a business model that treats the prisoners so inhumanely it feeds recidivism rates.
Is it possible that Nordic system works because maybe just maybe that Nordic criminals are less dangerous than their American counterparts? That rehabilitating them is a much easier task? It is not like Nordic countries have to deal with members of brutal drug cartels in their borders nor do they have to deal with highly dangerous drug lords.
Maybe they are less dangerous because they ultimately have something to lose?
iamcrazyforkittycats I think it's possible, but not probable. Also, I think you're overlooking the drug cartels of the Russian Mafia. If you look at Finland on a map you will notice that It's mostly bordered by Russia (land-wise).
I just think that Mexican drug cartels are more brutal than the Russian Mafia and if you compare the borders between the USA and Mexico vs Finland and Russia, I think I can't deny that the former is more violent than the later.
I think rehabilitation is good but I also think that for some criminals, rehabilitation is impossible (ex. psychopaths and serial killers can't be rehabilitated. Once they are released, they start searching for next victims)
America's culture of violence and the prison system are a bit of a feedback loop. I agree that at this point, the culture can't really be changed.
You're comparing apples to oranges. Obviously they realize that not everyone can be rehabilitated. The most extreme and famous example is of course the aforementioned Breivik, who sits isolated in a much less luxurious and accomodating (though still human) environment for the rest of his life.
The way this man thinks is the reason why our American jails are overcrowded!!
A prison was once called a "Reformatory", what is the purpose sending a person to jail or prison just to release them and have them commit more crime? Norway is showing us how we can change the lives and attitudes of people who have lost their way.
Portugal legalized all drugs, now they have less drug addicts and users than ever before. I wonder why?
dont complain about how good the prisons are... its ment to keep the prisoners away from the other people, not to punish them.
As a shock he don’t now about. The inmates in halden prison have their own key for their own cell but also the guards has it to
I find it hilarious how the 'Murican always refers to his prisons as 'Correctional Facilities', which they are NOT! US prisons are in the business of creating returning customers, not rehabilitating the inmates. The Norwegians do not use such false flags, they call their prisons Prisons, but what they actually DO to the hilt is rehabilitation, apparently with a fair amount of success. This tells you all you need to know about the maturity of Norwegian Society vs. US Society.
The recidivism rates show that this method works. Inmates aren't making ice picks out of coat hangers if they're treated well and taught how to live a normal life being treated like human beings.
The US visitor to Norway disgusts me. The man is clearly insane.
A thought caught me when the American was pointing out all of the possible weapons. The idea behind this prison appears to be, "yeah, so what? If you treat humans like humans, give them a sense of worth, a hobby to commit to, freedom from constant suffering, why would they want to attack each other?" The issue is, I think the US perspective (on behalf of both the inmates and their guards) is so far removed from this idea that it would be near impossible to implement such a system state side. It's a terrible shame.
The sad truth is that U.S. prisons are not made to rehabilitate, instead they are designed to make money and recidivism is their biggest source of income. Hats off to Norden for actually trying to better human lives and attempting to put an end to the revolving prison gates.
The big difference between the US and some other countries is that we tend to see prison as a punishment for doing a bad thing, where as in other countries (some, not all), they view prison as a place to correct whatever behavior caused you to go there in the first place.
I saw a video where this guy visited Norwegian prisons, and he was flabbergasted! He kept referring to himself as a Correctional Officer and his prison as a Correctional Facility. I do believe he eventually came to realize that the revenge-based prison policy in the US has little or no correctional effect.
Would love to see the whole series available. I used to live in Norway(for 14 years) and am now living in the Southern US(in one of the few liberal cities there!), but the US I came back to after 14 years is very different than what I left...so it would be interesting to see this series which compares aspects etc...
The only shocking thing in this video was James Conways reaction to this prison model. The US can’t get past this puritanical desire to punish people to extraordinary lengths.
This is the difference between a punitive prison system and one based on rehabilitation. Since the 70s the American justice system has turned full-blown punitive and is based on revenge against the perpetrators.
You have criminals that only learn suffering, violence, disregard on the outside, which doesn't excuse their crimes. Then they are sent to prison and they only suffer even more humiliation, violence and psychological deterioration. Why do you think so many ex-inmates turn back to a life of crime in the US compared to much lower numbers in countries that use rehabilitation measures? There are definitely perpetrators who might not deserve rehabilitation or can not be rehabilitated, but the huge majority of inmates in the USA never gets a chance for a normal life.
That James Conway person is maybe the worst person ever for doing this kind of bloke. All he did is walk around and judge everything in his close minded little bubble and not think for a second about how rehabilitation might be better than punishment. Just a douchebag. Just walking around pointing out ways everything could be turned into a weapon, Maybe that's your problem mate, all you do is look at everything as voilent and negative and not see any of the positives. I hate that guy allready.
@UC89w6XrR9Cnu2jF2NTu2hPw I also thought this guy was irredeemable. He had such negative attitude. But look at the follow up videos years later when the warden of Halden goes to his prison in New York. By that time he has actually changed. 4-5 years has passed in Halden and only one serious incident has happened there. The Attica warden has to eventually acknowledge the numbers speak for themselves. He slowly realizes the US system does not work. He is far more humble in the second round.
The warden of Halden gives a lecture about how the Norwegian system works to the professionals in New York. They seem to recognize their system isn't working but don't know how to change. And I have sympathy for that. There is only so much a progressive warden can do in the US. You really need to change the system at a political level. Also in Norway individual wardens could not change the system. It had to be a top down political change.
I agree, he is ignorant he should be able to look at the good sides and think about it. I believe in rehabilitation.
Thats a well installed door at 4.16 seconds. Doesnt sway at all.
shit those "cells" are nicer than my apartment
In your apartment, you are free to leave. You are free to travel. Free to take a new job. Free to participate in society. You have your liberty.
These cells are nice, but the cost is great -- the complete loss of personal liberty.
Estelle Castellano hahahahahaha the cost of my apartment is also great. not to mention i have to pay for electric, water and i'm getting raped by comcast
efflow330 So you're American I'm guessing?
Estelle Castellano But what if you don't care about any of those things? Wouldn't you just murder someone in Norway to essentially get to live in a hotel for free for the rest of your life?
Swxxt A simple murder wont put you down for the rest of your life, a 10-15year sentence is probably more like it(depending on circumstances). And why would you want to murder someone when we have social security systems that will hook you up with a place to live and enough money for food and other needs without the whole killing thing(you wont be living in luxury, but you'll still have your freedom)?
because forgiveness is a powerful thing.
First off, people are people, regardless of where they are from. Conway has a complete misunderstanding of the goals of this Nordic prison facility, which is to transform former criminals into productive members of society. If you want to reduce recidivism, you need to prepare inmates for the outside world, and a major part of that is treating them like a human.
Conway on the other hand, seems only to care about what can be made into a weapon. News flash buddy: most people don't act like animals if they're treated well; it's just that desperation and/or mental issues leads to desperate acts. People act like animals in american prisons because they are treated like animals. For all the commentators claiming this wouldn't work in america, it's because they see the human as the problem, and not the system as the problem.
Do you REALLY think the prison population in America is so astronomically out of proportion with the rest of the first world because we just have more intrinsically terrible people? Or do you think that perhaps the ENVIRONMENT these people live in is a more significant factor. I mean, it's not exactly a controversial idea that our environment shapes the kind of person we grow to be, so how do you expect a person taken from a bad environment (poverty) to a worse environment (american prisons) to magically become better as soon as their sentence is up? Oh right, they frequently don't. I wish there was a good rationale for why our system is set up the way it is, but it seems to be as simple as willful ignorance is promoted in order to maintain the highly profitable status quo at the expense of countless human lives. If you want to keep crime and poverty high in america, let's keep the status quo; but if we want to make our country better for EVERYONE, it's time to start treating everyone like the human they have the potential to be.
I am so confused and at a loss of words D:
I'm REALLY curious to know what the incident rate is in these places with all those metal objects and stuff
akpokemon I'm from Norway and i will tell you that it never happens :)
Scandinavia just does everything better. I wanna move to Sweden one day. :)
Why move to Sweden, when you have Norway? :P
***** Why move to Denmark when you have Finland?
Finland > Denmark > Norway > Sweden
veepari why move to finland when you can move to somalia?
***** Depends on what they've done.
Sweden is a good country to live in but don't let the luxurious videos fool you cuz if you did a big crime here in Sweden then the society will send you to one of swedens or maybe even be most dangerous prison in hole Scandinavia and the prison called : KUMLA , But sweden has other few hard prisons also called : Hall , Tidaholm and such.. and all this prisons Is classified top 1# security
The view of society on what is right or wrong is what decides whether you go to jail or not.
Everyone has a way to talk comfort onto their actions.
The American warden saw it as a joke. And I could not say it any better that it is the prison of a prisoner's dream and a utopia. I agree. And that's exactly what a prison should be. He has the completely wrong mindset of someone who has dominion over those weaker than himself. Justice is not meant to be punishment, but rehabilitation. And Norway has it exactly right by thinking about their lives after prison. How do they make this prisoner a better person, to make society better once he leaves. Not how to punish him into getting PTSD and ending up back in there.
When I watch shows about the american justice system, like Orange is the New Black. My heart aches at the injustices and I want to go to a prison and be employed there to make their lives a little better. When I see this prison, I see no point. What would be my work has already been done. I commend you Norway. This is exactly the kind of prison Gene Roddenberry had in mind for Star Trek/humanities utopian future.
More the prison from Voyager.
I don't know a perfect answer. My "best" guess so far is therapy for those who are treatable and execution, as a public safety measure, for those who can't be treated. No prisons, period (though locked wards of treatment centers will sometimes be required.) Yet nothing will work without fixing poverty and medical+mental healthcare.
I went to a military academy in the 1960's, quite frankly, we were held under tighter control in military school than that prison.
Note that going to a military school wasn't a punishment of any sort, its an old wives tale that bad boys were sent to military schools, bad boys couldn't get into the military schools, they only accepted above average students. Most of the cadets in military schools are the teenage children of adults who attended military schools. Dicipline, high morals and high character are the key items in military school cadets.
american shocked with civilization
The purpose of out prisons(I'm norwegian) are not to get revenge or to severly punish the inmates. Revenge near the line of torture(that's what taking away peoples human rights is) will only put the stamp on that persons self-image. The result being that he will continue down the bad road. There are enough studies in psychology to confirm this.
Instead of punishing the criminal severly, we treat his "mental illness" by giving him the time to reflect, as is a stigma in itself(not the same as being ), no matter the standards of said prison. Following the American model who has the highest incarceration rate of any country; thats would remove that stigma and make it something feared, but not frowned upon. Most that has been to jail atleast once, would not correct their errors. Trauma brings more trauma, care brings more care.
It probably is unecessary to state that I am a very liberal person, and that your liberal party would be conservative to me. You would be a fool to put revenge over compassion and understanding, as revenge would only lead to more innocent victims.
Kim Andrè Olsen I wouldn't necessarily call you liberal for advocating an approach that works.
If you treat people like monsters, they become those monsters. Thats what he fails to understand.
John, I hope you bring a car centric town planner to Copenhagen etc
LOL an American in a real correctional facility...The people in that prison are Fixed and rehabilitated. Not cages like animals in America.
P.S. An an American, Have spent short amounts of time in prison. (3 days was my longest stay)
EDIT: also, Fuck that old guy, he has no clue what his is talking about! When has any person part of the American prison system said "we need to focus on getting this person out, Everyone who comes to prison is going to leave." and insuring they have some kind of quality of life after it as well!
Kudos To the Norwegian prison system. Im glad you take care of your people. I'm sorry to say my own country does not care nearly as much about its own people.
To address a few points regarding cost, mainly brought by Gordon Tendick:
1. Does anyone have comparative statistics on cost-per-prisoner-per-year for the world's prisons? It seems obvious that the Norwegian system would be more expensive, right? Or is it? Who has higher security costs?
2. Suppose US prisons are cheaper per prisoner. However, recividism is higher. Doesn't this increase the total number of prisoners, thereby pushing costs back up?
3. Even when prison costs are accounted for, what about the cost to society of emotionally and intellectually crippling human beings? As the Onion article put it (yes, I'm quoting a satire website), "Chief warden Albert Gunderson [noted about the prisoner]: "We surrounded him with a combustible mix of rival gangs and made sure that he was consumed by a round-the-clock sense of terror that the slightest misstep on his part could result in a sharpened piece of scrap metal being shoved into his neck, and yet he still leaves this facility with the same criminal thoughts and violent mindset as before? I’m truly at a loss for how this could have happened.”" What human potential and talent is being destroyed by a system obsessed with dogmatic punishment and not pragmatically bettering society?
To offer these kinds of comforts and amenities to prisoners shows a disregard for the suffering they imposed on their victims and their victims families. If this is a facility for rapists and murderers, I'm appalled...
On the other hand, this is the ideal facility for non-violent offenders!
The people who go there rarely re-offend. Far far far less than American prisons or any others.
Justice is served.
Prison is not about punishment. It's about correction.
Most parts of Scandinavia are not that fascinated with that very American idea that punishment and suffering means justice, the point of a correctional facility should be to correct and educate inmates so they can learn to live in a normal society.
Rehabilitation > Revenge. This has been the known cure for crime and remedy for criminals since the Bronze age. Some nations such as America still haven't learnt, because it's easier to seek revenge than it is to actually do something productive.
No it shows compassion for their next potential victim and the belief that anyone can change when given the proper input. Turning violent offenders into non-violent people comfortable in their skin.
A new episode in the series is now published. It's about gender equality and gender roles in the Nordic society. Maria Kopchenova from Russia meets a Finnish feminist and a Danish masculinist. But what exactly is snow ploughing with a gender perspective? That, and much more, in The Norden - Gender, here: ua-cam.com/video/vMdfQ2MXHB0/v-deo.html
Yet their crime rate is still far lower than in the United States. Deterrents have long been known to have little effect on crime. The best methods for fighting crime are social programs and education. These facts are known and, sadly, ignored by the United States gov't.
John I am now a full fledged fan... I didnt know their are human beings capable of common sense, respect and compassion for fellow human beings en masse. I will do what I can to make sure your programs are viewed here by many as possible.
Thank you Basil for the kind words, I really appreciate it! Please feel free to spread the URL as much as you like :)
I'm Norwegian and I hate how well they treat inmates here! it's like he sais, why have prisons at all? so much of my own tax dollars going to treat the person that stole my car, or raped my girlfriend, or robbed my store to luxury beyond most schools! I've paid countless money for my education, and all I had to do was rob a store and get it for free? as well as the food, shelter and entertainment.. a god damn xbox!
WHY DO WE HAVE PRISONS? don't say to prepare them for the life outside! if someone raped my daughter I would want justice!
Prisons are meant to shield people from dangerous people who are not fit to live in a society! while they're locked up they should live as cheap as possible because they CHOSE to be there, it's their choice.. if they don't like it, it's their own fault.. it's not our job to keep them happy once they decided to "steal other people happiness"
CliffJumpingProd In the USA there are ridiculous prison terms for victimless crimes. For instance mandatory minimums for possession of drugs. These people haven't hurt anyone, but are being locked in cages for years and shunned by society, where after they get out, they can't get a real job. Clearly your Norwegian model works much better.
The answer is you deal with your own past. Revenge isn't the answer, but the perpetum engine for more hate and crimes. This type of correctional facility shouldn't be perceived as something personal or an offense to nobody who got raped or to no family member of a murdered one. With those grieves you deal in other platforms of society and not by revenge...or the idea of a revenge. Your mentality is the main problem with your society. (I'm sorry for my broken English being a second language)
you mistake justice and revenge.. if your kid does something wrong, do you just deal with it or teach them that that was wrong and that actions have consequences..? also, some people are not fit to live in a society, people who doesn't know the difference between mine and yours, who has no regards for other peoples lives, they need to be locked up for the safety of the public..
CliffJumpingProd
I don't lock a kid in a cage for years with a bunch of violent thugs because he screwed up. I think the Norwegian recidivism rate vs. The USA's recidivism rate really tells us all we need to know about which approach works. The USA's system isn't about correction as it says, its about punishment. As a result there are a terrible number of ex-cons that just re-offend. The deterrence model has failed.
Man kan rehabilitere fangene i et vanelig fengsel.. man trenger ikke bygge et fire stjerners ferie kompleks til de, det er langt over grensa. De har tross alt valgt å være der selv. Ingen blir tvunget til å sone! Så hvorfor skal vi spandere et musikk studio, xbox og flatsjerm tv til hver 10. fange? Og all statistikken er villedende, fordi norge er et så rikt land har alle folk så utrolig mange muligheter og tilbud fra mydighetene. Kommer man ut så får man masse muligheter på skattebetalerenes regning, er man arbeidsledig får man dagpenger av nav. Det er ikke noe grunn til å være kriminell som nordmann. De eneste norske som soner er folk som stjeler for å ha det gøy, som er voldelige i fylla og folk som er avhengi av narkotika og har bygget opp en grusom narko gjeld og trenger penger raskt osv. Men det ingen vil si noe om er at disse fantastiske fengselene og de latterlige korte straffene har gjort norge til et utopia for kriminelle over hele verden! Big win, small risk! husker ikke nøyaktig hva tallene var, men tror det var på "insider" på MAX at de sa at 75% av fanger var ikke norske.. Fengselene våre tiltrekker seg kriminalitet fra hele verden........ det er ikke et bra system spør du meg.
Are there many crime reports in the Norwegian news?
Too bad they didn't mention the number of stabbing incidents occurring in this prison, I'm sure they wouldn't have those tools around if the inmates were half as violent as their American counterparts. How arrogant to assume the culture of violence is the same in these different societies. There may be a few criminal gangs in Norway, but it's not like they kill each other because they wear different colours.
And by questioning the existence of music instruments/lessons (which actually exist in American prisons too), one could also wonder why there are basketball courts in American prisons - to prepare them for a basketball career once they get out?
xCopy xCat uhm. Did you even read his comment or are you just on some wild comment raging spree?
"Too bad they didn't mention the number of STABBING INCIDENTS occuring in this prison."
PROOF OR IT DIDN'T HAPPEN, FUCK FACE!
You'd be surprised to find out how low the death rates in Norwegian prisons are...
Boutros Boutros Boutros Ghali Very ignorant comment.
Why are the Scandinavian countries like... 100 times ahead of the rest of the world?
yeah sweden is far ahead of the world in rape too, which is awesome.
How is this prison correctional? I would imagine it would attract criminals seeing as they don't have to suffer. A lot of people rob banks, steal cars, jewelry, etc. so they can go to prison for health care, food, and shelter. This is prison is ideal for a criminal! By the way, what's wrong with murderers and rapists being treated like animals?
Correctional =/= retributive.
Will this be showing in the UK, if not, where can I see it?
Jonathan Smith Hey Jonathan, not sure yet if it will be broadcast in the UK, but the full episode can be seen here: ua-cam.com/video/HfEsz812Q1I/v-deo.html
So you're telling me that some inmates are having a much better and fulfilling life for free than the one I have as a law abiding citizen.
That's...
great.
I guess...
_curls up and cries_
no it mean that they want the inmate to change for the better. all America wants is free labor so they make sure their inmates dont change. they want them back in the system. these guys want them to be able to leave and not come back. they treat them like humans, not dogs of the state. our major problem her is all of our prisons are for profit companies. they look at the bottom line. rehab costs money to do and you are not guaranteed them to return. forced labor camps, an atmosphere of violence/drugs and a bleak future actually make money for them and it also gives them an 80% chance they will return for another 10+ years.
i get what you are saying about them being treated better than most, they might not want to leave or do something to get it back. but that is not true. they teach them skills to make their life outside better. it also forces them to get off drugs/booze. they are not forced to live in a tiny apartment with 10 other guys, where they cant leave. their freedom is still taken but they now have the keys to better future. where-as our system wants none of that. funny that we have such strict systems yet there is still violence, drugs, booze and rapes.
It's amazing to Americans how humanitarian they are in regards to prisons - Varg Vikernes (Burzum) was recording and putting out records the whole 21 years he spent in prison (BTW 21 years is the longest prison term anyone can possibly get in Norway)
Instead of breaking people's spirit like they do in American prisons they try to heal them so they can eventually integrate back into society. Overall American society is still a medieval feudal system based on kicking people when they're down instead of trying to help them. In America unless you are born wealthy and have friends in high places you are basically struggling your whole life in this country. and do not have equal rights especially if you are a single woman/mother.
Everyone in Scandinavian countries are given a huge retirement even if they have never worked a day in their life, and nobody is living in fear that they will be on the street in their old age or any age. The thinking is that everyone deserves to live a good life, and everyone deserves an education (free college) and in this way makes society happier overall. Single mothers are a norm in Scandinavian society when they are still shunned in America. There is 100% literacy in Scandinavia as well compared to 70% in this country.
The difference between rehabilitation and punishment.
'Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.'
- MLK Jr.
Here is the difference between a mind set. One (US) focuses on punishment and releases non-rehabilitated prisoners. and one (Norway) focuses on rehabilitation and releases citizens. Would be good to see the follow up of those released.
some detail on one nordic prison en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halden_Prison
This is much better than my apartment. Please can anyone tell me what I have to do to get in a Norwegian prison?
Stupid comment.
did he get to hear about how few people end up commiting crime again?
cant wait to watch the entire series! Can you tell me how and where i can watch the entire thing or is this a ongoing project yet?
Hey, thanks for watching. The full episode can be seen here: The Norden - Nordic Prisons
An excerpt from the episode about religion - where an American pastor visits the secular Nordic countries - can be seen here: The Norden - Religion
I'm norwegian, and a student at a school where I study Music, Dance and Drama, with music as my main class. They have a better studio than we got at our school. And I'm not even a prisoner. I don't see the logic, but one thing is sure ass hell. I will find a way to get to that prison
He should re-check the stats on just how many murderers and rapists there are compared to say marijuana users in prison.
What about the difference in population makeup between Norway and the U.S.? I mean overall. The U.S.'s vast cultural spectrum makes a lot of the Nordic policies difficult to efficiently implement. Please correct me if I'm wrong, i'm actually trying to learn.
Watch: Store gutter gråter ikke .
Big boys don't cry . From older days 94 or something..And check out Trond Henriksen, how he is doing now, on his Facebook.
Even though that prison was absolutely nothing like Halden, they started sending addicts to rehab and serve there ,if they managed not to relapse, too often. Is possible to find on UA-cam.
To Deb Haplocena: if you're interested in more stuff from the Finnish Broadcasting Company YLE, try our streaming site areena.yle.fi
Our programs are almost exclusively in Finnish or Swedish, but you can at least get acquainted with some stuff. Our website is www.yle.fi
Thanks,
John
They do give them the keys sometimes and it works.
If I go to Norway and rob a store or kill someone would I be put in one of these prisions or would I be deported?
We only place ethnical norwegians in these facilities. Foreigners are executed on the spot. Kinda racist, but really efficient.
Hahahaha that sounds truly efficient hahahah
I would think it depends... if you had residency there or not. I know that there have been times where some asylum seekers would rather commit a crime and be put in one of these jails than be sent back 'home' to face whatever fate awaited them. I lived in Norway for 14 years. For the most part, there were far fewer violent crimes in Norway, and police rarely carry guns. While I was there, there was a case of two teenage boys who raped and murdered two girls under age 10 in my town. It was such a shockingly violent crime that they even had FBI experts come in. Needless to say, I'm sure Anders Brievik's terrorist bombings and attack on the students on Utøya is probably the most extreme act in Norway since WWII, and changed a lot of people's viewpoint of their world in Norway forever. One of the teen boys killed went to school with my daughter in Kristiansand. With Brievik, he technically got the harshest possible sentence...21 years... however, he will likely remain in prison indefinitely, as after that 21 years, he is evaluated as to if he is still a threat to society every few years(I think every 5), and kept in as long as he is seen as a threat. I believe there is a far lower rate of recidivism among Norwegian criminals... where here, the conditions in the prison often seem to make the criminals worse as people when they come out of jail again. I believe the focus of Norwegian prisons is more a matter of both protecting the public as well as rehabilitation of the individual rather than just a focus on punishment.
Excellent video! You just earned a new subscriber! :)
US prisons are about punishment, not rehabilitation. Even the parole system often forbids you to work once you get out, while they threaten to send you back to prison unless you can get money for treatment, fines, parole costs. There is a lot of money to be made by the police & guard system in running prisons. They want to keep as many people in the system as possible.
I knew a gal who was a school teacher and her husband would sometimes smoke pot due to help with nausea from his cancer therapy. One day, they pulled over their car, found the a joint in the car and arrested both of them. She was inexperienced with the system and was tricked into probation and drug treatment. When she went to the classes, they said that she was in denial because she didn't use drugs. So they said she failed treatment, a judge then sent her to prison for two years. Her husband died shortly after that from the cancer. She lost her house and her job. They took away all her kids and put them up for adoption to other families. They completely destroyed her life, and by the time she got out, she had lost all reason to live and was homeless for several years. She is incapable of work now and lives off of disability.
The cost to society of incarceration is not just for running the prison system, but also the cost of dealing with their mental illness from acquired PTSD for the experience and the loss of taxes from their wages due to their disenfranchisement even if they can still work.
Yeah why would you make a weapon of a coathanger when there are knives in the kitchen...
This is really awesome. I hope the subtitles are available soon. Great show!
Hey Felix, thanks for the kind words. The full episode, with English subtitles, can be seen here: The Norden - Nordic Prisons
John Stark Yeah. I just watched it and really liked it. I can't wait till the other episodes are translated. I found it because of a link to the clip about religion and would like to see that one, too.
What I enjoyed most when I watched the full episode about the prison system is that I could totally understand both sides. I think James Conway has a point sometimes because really violent offenders could abuse this more lenient system much easier and I also understand the sentiment to make an inmate "pay a little" for what they did. But at the end of the day what counts is the amount of people that can be successfully re-integrated into society that stay law-abiding. This is something that I think the nordic approach does very well by treating them well, educating them and not giving them the feeling of being bad people.
I had the "chance" to see an american jail from the inside when I was taken in after I was pulled over for speeding because I didn't have an american drivers license. Georgia enacted that law to crack down on illegal immigrants but now regular tourists also have to go through the same procedure. As a german that was a very scary experience because nothing ever felt as intimidating to me as this facility. The thing that was most unnerving was the fact that the staff there was in no way able to help you with anything. I luckily got out after doing all the paperwork and waiting for two hours but what if someone is arrested by mistake or just guilty of a very minor crime? There is just no talking to these people. Once in there the only way out is through a judge that is miles away and may not even hear your case anytime soon.
I have the feeling that the guards in a nordic prison would be much more helpful and understanding. The human component is still present there. The american system feels utterly inhumane. Much like a slaughterhouse or a big scary cow stable.
Well. Anyway. You made a really kick-ass documentary there and I can't wait to see the following episodes.
*****
Here's the full episode on religion, with subtitles in English: The Norden - Religion
John Stark You rock!
Hey, you don't explain in this shot what happens with the aggressive prisoners - they actually can not be locked in this kind of a prison. As a matter of fact, for them you need the one as Attica.
Well, this prison has 10 times more expensive music studio than many studios i've been to :D
Well, there are prisons where no keys are needed because instead of a fence they have a picket fence, so... :-)
Who do you want to come out after their sentence?
There haven't bin a single incident how come?
i think this is a little too comfortable, so maybe find an inbetween
Well it clearly works why should it be changed just look at the stats
Incarceration rates:
Norway: 71 for every 100,000 people
United States: 743 for every 100,000 (in 2009)
Recidivism rate:
Norway: 20%
United States: 50%-60%
Really looking forward to seeing this. I got busted while I was in the US in Texas for a tiny amount of weed and got a crash course in county jail.
Wild, wild stuff.
He makes good points but I think they're pretty much all put to rest when you ask "but does it work?" It does. So we can get as riled up about prisoner luxuries as we like but I'd much rather live in a safer, cleaner society where a prisoner gets some mental stimulation than live in a train wreck of a society like the US where prisoners get treated terribly.
This guy looks just like how corrupt directors look like in series and movies
In other words, he looks EXACTLY like what he is.
And here we see two different views of how to run a prison, and the role that a prison serves in society. The Norwegian prison has the philosophy "these inmates will be leaving one day, let's make sure they are rehabilitated and have the skills required to NOT EVER come back".
The American prison, on the other hand, is all about punishment, and it doesn't care if you are reformed or hardened when you leave.
In the case of this particular theme, regarding prisons and the penal system, it's in a way like you describe. One of the quotes that stuck with me from the recording of this series was one that mr Jan Strømnes, the Halden representant in the clip, said: "the Norwegian model is that of an iron hand in a silk glove". Mr Conway's experience and values are also quite clearly presented in the clip.
The role of this series though is to let the viewer decide "whose side you're on"; that's not up to us. We merely present different aspects, different perspectives, values, attitudes.
Murder and rape? Most inmates are incarcerated for drug related offenses. It's a racket.
I'm IMPRESSED - but I wish you would have given us something at the end - saying this is Part 1 or ___ or show some #s on how this works (which I have a feeling it REALLY DOES). Instead I'm walking away feeling disturbed & I'm not any solution to it. Perhaps you can add a note to this John as it's REALLY WELL DONE.
Ok - now I'm seeing another video from you so I'll watch it now.
Imagine an inmate that can come out and have such a good jop that he can repay his crimes to society, not in worthless time, but in money, now that's what I call a successful system.
Warden works for a corrupt system and of course first thing he says is: Don't blame the system.
+greymatter51 Oh, and he thinks a recording studio is over the top? God forbid we teach inmates anything beside a high school level education, fixing cars or radios!?!?!?!?
@@greymatter33 Yes, god forbid they have useful skills and somehow achieve success and join our social class.
For Americans, the concept of the nordic model is so foreign that US will NEVER be able to adapt to this model. But we have proved that by NOT treating criminals like animals they have a higher chance of not returning to a life of crime and becoming a productive member of society as they should be, but treat them like garbage like they do in UD and many other countries then of course they will behave like an animals and return to prison, because for many of them its the only life they in a really ironic way, they feel safest.
Love it. One has to ask the question then. Does Mr Norway reoffend as often as Mr USA?
He does not. 75% of American inmates re-offend. Only 20% of Norwegian inmates re-offend.