OASIS vs REM: The Mysterious Band Fallout At Slane Castle
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- Опубліковано 10 чер 2024
- In July 1995 Oasis supported REM at Slane Castle, Ireland. Before the gig, the bands were on good terms with each other, but afterwards not so much. And no-one (including me) seems to know why. But here's as much as I could find out...
Thanks to Paul S for requesting this video
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Many thanks, JH.
I’m actually quite impressed how Liam and Noel handled the crowd extremely well
Had the same thought. Great job by them.
Met too. Stipe must be loving this woke society. Depressing ponce.
@@rosshaugh7937 Look you can praise without shading. I mostly don't like Oasis but actually apart from Noel's comments about kicking that bloke's head in I think they handled the crowd well - they noticed and managed the situation. Also you can fuck off with the gay slurs you twat.
@@rosshaugh7937 you met who?
@@swedishchefhands9037 I don’t get he question??
I was at the Slane '95 gig....it was outstanding. Both bands were great. Belly, and Luka Bloom were some of ther other support acts...
You missed a massive nugget (maybe you were unaware), but Stipe and Cobain were very good friends. This is well documented. Stipe was devestated when Cobain died and not long after, like you mentioned, Noel slags off rock stars committing suicide. That to me, is where it started.
💯
Yup
not only Stipe and Cobain, Peter Buck has the famous Blue Jag Stang Guitar as a gift from Courntney Love after the passing of Kurt and even lived in Seattle at the time of his death (and they are still close friends with Pearl Jam to)
This exactly
Noel had few things to say about Cobain
I was never that much into Oasis, but I must say, I've become addicted to your mini-docs on the band and have made me more interested into digging into their backcatalogue. Thank you for these.
I've just had my 4th round of chemo treatment and I saw this video.
Slane Castle was the best gig I ever went to.
Being part of lad culture in the 90s was the best time of my life. The 90s truly were the last great decade.
We are going to live forever.
All the best with it.
All the best mate
The 90s were the best. There's no doubt about that.
Hope all goes well fella for me the lad culture was 1980 - ⚽️ football the start of the proper casual culture and Mondays, Roses plus many others oddly mostly Manchester bands etc and Raves Along come Oasis continue the revolution Madchester, Roses began saved those that knew about music from listening to Top of the pop music lots of your mates liked..nothing you could do about when you were born but the 90s were still a great time for gigs, proper lad culture decent Attire which many continued in a great way ..sadly much later we have the New Man, PayPal kids not much of a clue not into music, football just wearing casual gear many getting it so wrong .but yes 80s & 90s were great times . Most including Knebworth pre Internet social media online shopping and yep my fave song live forever cigarettes and alcohol only cause that was a two fingers to the Establishment
Good luck with the Chemo.
Hello all - quick correction - Liam was 21 when he sang Shakermaker in the studio (when he 'taught the world to sing'), not at Slane. My bad. He was 22 at Slane.
Great video as always, but I think you've missed another allusion to Oasis in the Wake Up Bomb lyrics .. The final phrase in the "atomic, supersonic" line is "Pond scum". What is an oasis? A natural watering hole in the desert. What's another name for a natural hole full of water? I think this is a naked allusion to Oasis.
Also, there is footage of Michael Stipe slagging Oasis off on the Jon Stewart show. He calls them "boneheads"... I guess he was 20% right.
I'm still working on what "lunch meat" might mean.
@@kristaylor776 lunch meat is cheap/ low quality
I was going to say that but you beat me to it. ;-)
Interesting, I didn't even know that there'd been a rivalry between them and R.E.M, apart from knowing that "Wake Up Bomb" was a dig, but that was it. One Oasis rivalry that seems to have been forgotten, and was actually one of their earliest, was the one they had with Shed Seven - I'm sure they supported Oasis early in their career, and didn't Oasis have a spat with them because Shed Seven's logo was at one point too similar to that of Oasis, and Liam Gallagher was having none of it?
noel can also be quoted saying if we're today's beatles, who are the rolling stones? its not fucking shed seven!
The Wikipedia article for Change Giver has a subsection on their "Rivalry with Oasis" - which, in fairness, is probably one of the most interesting things about S7 to people in hindsight
"Wake-Up Bomb" wasn't a dig at Oasis; it was a cheeky tribute to 1970s glam rock.
@@arturoandrade9089 yep, Mike Mills confirmed it was not a dig at all.
Noel is right.yyou can't write losing my religion then be punk rock. It's bit like me saying I'm a blade than an owl
It seems we really were very very lucky to have Oasis in the '90s. Just imagine what a bedwetting Coldplay-esque decade it could have been without them. It would've been the 2020s feminised society 20 years too early.
I love Oasis but gotta say Blur were also heading for a Knebworth of their own before drugs and a disappointing 4th album knocked them off their stride.
@@HighlandMike325 Yeah Blur were actually my favourites at the time. Parklife album was the 1st CD I ever bought. But ended up liking Oasis more when I got into their b-sides. Those B&H gold and silver sets were mainstays around my midi hi-fi system in 1997.
I can't think of any two people more feminine than the Gallagher brothers fighting over stupid shit. They were bit of a clown show in the USA. Made some good music, but just a joke in many respects.
Great
I went into the Oasis dressing room to thank them for supporting us after their set on Slane Castle in 1995 and I asked if they were staying to watch us. From the back of the room Liam shouted "are we fuc#, your music is depressing we are off to get pissed" Michael Stipe on NME
Legendary stuff. Hope that is true.
I am so glad Oasis came along to with a more optimistic sound. Not that it's better music than Rem or the Seattle Bands... but the music was just brighter and I needed that. Those early 90's bands have a gloomy cloud over them and it's still there today, in my mind. Oasis music is still like the sunshine through the clouds
@@megadave1197 LOL the image of a Barbie doll melting over a grill comes to mind, but great song
@Astro Jenkins agreed. Nirvana’s music certainly wasn’t depressing in my opinion though. Noel is correct. Why be miserable idiots when you’re doing something you love and are getting paid for doing it!!
Noel met Michael Stipe somewhere recently (within the past five years) and Michael Stipe took a selfie with him and posted it on his instagram account (an account he has since deleted) so I think everything’s good between them now.
Another great documentary from you but I have to pick you up on a couple of points. I was at the Slane gig in '95 and nobody blew anybody off stage! R.E.M. and Oasis were both massive bands at the time, the anticipation ahead of seeing them play back to back was huge and they didn't disappoint. Both delivered amazing sets and around 80,000 people left the venue with a big smile on their faces.
Also, I suspect it wasn't backstage at Slane that created the tension. You have to remember Michael Stipe had become very close to Kurt Cobain in the months leading up to his death. As far as I remember, Oasis started having a go at rock stars who commit suicide, mentioning Kurt in particular, shortly after his death and I suspect that was the root of the tension that developed between the two bands.
Great video for sure. Thank you for that James. I would disagree with the characterization that REM was "slogging" it out on the circuit for 14 years before having success, they were huge in the US for the most part from 1986 on. By 1995 they were really in their twilight. I was a huge REM fan in the early 80's and really only started to appreciate Oasis around 1999. Now they are by far my favorite band of all time. I could not imagine what that back stage scene was like with REM and Oasis, you can't get two groups on more different ends of the spectrum lol. Keep up the good content.
Quality video, mate! Keep up the awesome work. Can’t get enough of it! Cheers!
I was at this gig. Massive crowd and both bands were really great. Slane Castle is such a great festival site. Oasis did not blow REM off the stage. As I said, both rocked.
I watched oasis late on years later at slave castle. Its never been a music venue, climbing over styles yo get in
Rem where far superior to oasis in every department
I was also there. Both were amazing.
I wasn't there but can imagine it. I personally think that REM beats Oasis ten times over, but as far as amping up a crowd I suspect that Oasis (at this very specific point) would have kept up with REM just because their songs were more geared towards sing along rowdiness.
@@mattkaz9604 You are correct Matt. R.E.M. were technically much better, but Oasis captured the mood that day with all the early “Definitely Maybe” songs, so it gave them a bit of an edge. Also it was everyone’s first chance to see them live, and there was a big buzz going around about their live gigs.
But I say again, R.E.M. were still by far the better band.
I really don't know how you find all this information out but it's really impressive. Love these videos!
Oasis and R.E.M. are my two absolute favourite bands. I've met Stipe backstage after a gig in the early 2000s and in the context of a conversation that I don't remember anymore, I actually said to him sth like "You're not Liam Gallagher are you?". He replied with a smirk and said "No I'm not that...". He never really finished that sentence.
I also remember one post oasis interview with Noel where he mentions r.e.m. and the amicable manner in which they split up, contrasting it with oasis breakup.
Was at Slane in 1995 and it was the best outdoor gig I've ever been to. I bought the ticket for REM but Oasis being added to the bill later on was just dream stuff. By the time the gig came round, Oasis were so big they could have been headliners and undoubtedly a lot came to Slane just to see them (funnily enough this also happened at Slane in 1998 with Robbie Williams supporting The Verve despite being bigger than them by then. Slane headliners are usually booked a year in advance but the music world moves much quicker than that). I mostly remember Oasis playing stuff from the then unreleased Morning Glory album and all the crowd mayhem you mentioned. The excitement clearly drove REM on as they played a great gig and didn't want to be upstaged.
Another excellent video on something I vaguely remember from the time. Good work , really enjoyed this 👍
Great content, as always! You're a great story teller.
I remember seeing a relatively recent photo of Michael and Noel sitting next to each other at a meal in Italy or somewhere, with, I think De Niro.
The time between the Slane Castle show and the first live performance of 'The Wake‐Up Bomb' is just twelve days. If it is true that elements of the song are about Oasis then you have to congratulate R.E.M. for the speed in getting that out there.
Michael can see the future
I was at that gig and remember Liam’s outburst. Oasis played a lot of What’s the story? Which hadn’t been released. It was the first time I heard Don’t look back in anger, Hello, Champagne Supernova etc.
Apparently there was 100,000 there and during man on the moon the lit paper cups were unreal in the dusk.
Your videos are a must for any Oasis fans, out there.
Nice work, mate👍
This is the second video I've watched and I subscribed. In both your videos you put the music squarely into the youth movements that were going on at the time. I see a great scope for this in terms of future videos. Excellent job.
Another fascinating video, James--although I will say, alot of the supposed "REM comments" are pretty general Noel press-courting statements about those types of bands in general. In particular, with the "band's documentaries" statement, he was obviously referring much more to Radiohead there--the infamously media-phobic, paranoid and dystopian tour documentary "Meeting People is Easy" (which I actually love, it's got some mind blowing performances on it) had been released not too long ago, and he even makes reference to "go[ing] back to Oxford", which obviously wouldn't apply to REM.
funny thing is that, somewhat related, after the Oasis/REM gig, once Radiohead started to tour with the latter in support of The Bends, Stipe and Thom Yorke started to become buddies
@@NFSF1McLaren Oh yeah, that's what gave birth to "How to Disappear Completely"''--Stipe's advice. There's a great publication of Yorke's tour diary for that REM tour
Really interesting video James. It wasn’t a rivalry I’d really thought about before. They are really different bands and not easy to compare.
Really dig your channel and these types of tales. You mention the dichotomy between the two bands at the Slane castle show, and while they were definitely part of two different movements and attitudes, I will say that you also have to keep in mind that Liam was around 23 years old in 1995 while Michael Stipe was 35 years of age. I would say with life experience and the fact that REM had been plugging at it for years at this point (which you mention) there is definitely a noticeable distinction in maturity at this point in time atleast between those two.
Exactly. Michael Stipe had already done the whole "early 20s guy" in a band, for many years, and had known people doing that for years. He probably thought of Liam and Noel as kind of musically illiterate.
@@fshoaps yeah, he very well could've, but by this point Noel had also done his fair share of touring around the world (I think he was a roadie/manager role) before he was in oasis. And was in his late 20's and had been a prolific song writer up to this point. So if anything, I'd say Michael Stipe probably had some admiration and respect for Noel on a music level. I mean the guy was writing songs like Wonderwall, don't look back in anger and champagne supernova to name a few. Even if you don't respect the man, you have to respect his songwriting prowess for the time.
@@mikeswindell that’s the ultimate dichotomy of Oasis. Noel is admired across the board as a gifted songwriter, but the image of the band, and thus Liam “gets in the way”
@@fshoaps my bad. I meant Noel did a lot of touring. I'm a huge oasis fan and think the gallagher brothers rock. I always thought liam had a cool and unique voice. Their interviews are legendary. I saw their brashness as nothing more than entertainment. I know there were things said that rubbed people the wrong way, but I suppose the charm with the gallagher Brothers is what you see is what you get.
I remember Noel commenting when Oasis broke up that it was always going to end in some spectacular fashion rather than like REM discussing it round a table.
There's of course Michael Stipe offering this opinion on the R.E.M. track King of Birds:
"Standing on the shoulder(s) of giants leaves me cold"
Of course, that song is from 1987, but still
I didn't realise REM and Oasis ever crossed paths. Monster wasn't a punk record. Although Stipe's ideas have always been pretty abstract, so maybe he felt it was. Either way, it's one hell of an album.. whatever genre it is or isn't.
They didn't tour Automatic For The People, and I remember Q magazine's headline "Build A Monster To Tour With"
Agreed - Monster is a good album and was a sudden left turn after what the band had been doing previously, but the idea of it as being 'punk' doesn't really fit.
Coincidentally REM and bonehead are the only artists to play mtv unplugged twice
Just like to point out That REM started out as a Punk Band in the 80s (I saw them in a Back Yard Party)!!
"Punks not about the music itself"
"But also REM aren't punk because of the music they played on their last album"
Truly a showcase that someone can know the right thing to say but still not "get" it.
REM was once, in the early 80s, along with the Grateful Dead, the most beloved college radio bands. Both REM and the GD are 2 of my favorite bands. I saw both of them multiple times in 1994/1995. Both can be considered “rock adjacent,” rock derivative or even alternative rock, in some sense.
I also find it interesting that the REM song revolves around the phrase “wake up” and is titled Wake Up Bomb. Oasis clearly took the riff from the “The One I love” by REM and made “Morning Glory”, which also revolves around the recurring phrase of “wake up”. Maybe Stipe was calling out Oasis for using his bands riff by directly stealing a phrase from “Morning Glory”? Not sure if Morning Glory was played that night but it’s an interesting thought.
Morning Glory also sounds similar to Stockport band - The Clouds song “King of the Rocket Men” from the Bingo Clubs Millennium Ball EP. The song “Blue Cat” on this EP also sounds similar to Columbia.
I think the whole song Wake Up Bomb is a satire on Oasis it also references Supersonic too. 'My head's fire with self esteem, practice my T-Rex moves (Cigarettes and Alcohol sounds very T-Rex and it was mentioned at the time) and make a scene, I'd rather be anywhere, doing anything'.
There's no copyright on a riff is there ? its fair game, all guitarists learn riffs from others & use them in their own context, modified to some degree.
@@TimLondonGuitarist you can’t just play back in black by AC/DC and get away with it. I believe there’s a certain number of notes played in the same way that is allowed.
@@cornflakesyuh3235 There was a successful claim against George Harrison over my sweet lord: the song was deemed to have copied the melody & harmonic progression / phrasing. George said it was unintentional. Don't recall anything like that over a riff. Or did Oasis actually rip off the melody & harmonic progression / phrasing , not just a riff ? I don't remember the songs well enough to say.
You missed out another big difference between them... REM was a student band who met at university. The student culture was what they were playing to - intellectual, different, pushing creative boundaries. Oasis couldn't have been further away from a uni campus (other than the drinking of course)
Intellectual 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Why oasis were popular as it was music for the people by the people instead of uni I don't have to work for a few years yet Socialist, Marxists, who want to be rich probably never done a day's work sat chatting about GreenPeace CND Save the 🐋 Whale but whichever camp your in or like both their is no dispute that Liams voice at 21 was Ethereal ballads or the Rocking Tunes that Stipe could never emulate Liam was a front man Stipe was a showman remember all this stuff pre 1996 was before when Internet so really USA had no idea about The Talent across The Pond, that was sweeping everywhere and wouldn't cow tow to the USA music industry pretty much anyone can bring out songs we are more selective in our music.
@@angie-smart-but-casual Thanks for the thesis, Professor.
REM is A band for my mums generation
Those same university kids loved oasis meanwhile the American working class was listening to hair metal and country. The hate was not reciprocated from the American side at all
Really interesting story. I was/am a fan of both bands (and in attendance at Slane '95) and I had no idea all that was going on.
The Slane gig was awesome. I don't remember feeling that anyone blew anyone else off the stage. It was just a really high quality gig all round.
Great video, thank you for doing this.
I remember learning from a roadie in the 90's that Peter Buck actually got along very well with Oasis and hung out with them a lot.
One of the best videos I've seen except all the frames put together..would have been better as a live interview but well done 👏
I have heard a couple of interviews with Oasis and it is pretty obvious there is a fair bit of professional jealosy when it comes to Radiohead it must be frustrating that the media thinks they can do no wrong.
This is interesting, especially since an Oasis cover band (Supersonic) and an REM cover band (Murmer) are on tour together now. Saw them in NYC a few weeks ago, it was mega!
Get them to fight!
Oasis IS a cover band. So an Oasis cover band is like a photocopy of a photocopy
@@stevenhaas9622 Here, take this downvote
An interesting piece. Thanks. I saw REM quite a few times in England from 1984 to about 1988 and yes they were a very hardworking band who toured constantly. They obviously enjoyed playing in the UK and they cultivated a rather large fanbase (well maybe not that large). They really broke through from the early 90's onwards. My main point is that Stipe has always been introverted and that's just what he's like. But to me he's a fantastic musician and frontman. Being a bit older I didn't really get into Oasis but I still respect them as a band. Polar opposites really. But thanks again for your video 👍
Always loved REM since the mid 1980's and I liked Oasis in 1990's, just great music and music is a great comfort.
"Sorry Liam, Noel, it's not about you - no offense." Mike Mills in Mojo talking about The Wake Up Bomb - Inside Out p157
That was all a bit tough to hear because I do very much love Oasis. However, when it comes to REM, I consider myself quite the American “James Hargreaves”!!
The organ outro of Half The World Away sounded very REMish (New Orleans Instrumental).
My top 5 favourite bands of the 90s in no order would be Oasis, REM, Nirvana, Green Day and U2 so it was very interesting to hear this bit of conflict between the two bands that I never even knew existed. I already knew that Noel thought REM were a bit miserable (as from the clip that you played) and I know Noel liked some of Nirvana's music except for a song that Kurt wrote called "I hate myself and I want to die" in accordance to that Noel wrote Live Forever.
Remove U2 and put Stone Roses in their place and that's my list too.
Interesting video, and it's funny that Oasis and REM only shared two gigs together. The gig at Badesee Düren on the 9th of July and the Slane Castle gig on the 22nd.
Though Liam was not 21 at the Slane Castle gig. Liam was 22. It might've been that Liam sang Shakermaker when he was 21.
Oasis were meant to support them at the (then) Alfred McAlpine Stadium in Huddersfield(on the 25th July) and pulled out after the Slane Castle gig. Something happened backstage for certain.
@@dljm7847 Pretty sure they pulled out just before the Slane gig, might be wrong though,, replaced by The Beautiful South
Great video and analysis my friend. I'm a big fan of both bands and I never heard of this story before
Never stop making these mini documentarys!
In 95 REM played at the newly opened mcalpine stadium in my town Huddersfield. I remember the buzz about the town having a massive band like REM play. What sticks out vividly in my head as It was just before my 10th birthday and I really wanted to go is the poster’s that were stuck up all around the town centre. On them posters it stated that Oasis we’re the special guests for the gig. Yet when the gig happened the support band we’re the beautiful south. If I’m honest I only wanted to go for Oasis, but with it being a Wednesday night and my dad (who was a copper) actually working the gig outside. I didn’t get to go.
I was working as a YTS (look it up!) at Comet across the road the morning of the gig. I remember a long haired guy walking in saying he was a coach driver on the tour, and then spent £500 on a Nintendo Game Boy with about every game we had in stock and paid with an Amex Gold card. Amazing what you remember
I hope you do more of these Oasis vs bands as there is some interesting stories to tell.
REM and Nirvana had a close bond so they probably took umbrage to Noel's comments on Kurt and the grunge scene in general.
Comments from both Noel and Michael Stipe in the aftermath obviously haven't helped the situation.
Yeah came here to say this. Peter Buck lived on the same street as Kurt & Courtney, Stipe wrote 'Let Me In' about Kurt and had wanted to meet up with him and work together before he died. Kurt had pitched the idea of joining REM as a touring guitarist at some point as well. They were close.
Noel also made some comment about how he hoped that Damon Alburn and Alex James from Blur would die from aids. Noel did apologise for it, but such a remark wouldn't have sat well with Stipe.
@@selfishkitten7657 From what I understand, Stipe considered Cobain's death something of a personal failure - that another young star died due to fame or something like that, like Rivers Phoenix he thought he should have done more - which caused him to intervene more forcefully when he learned Thom Yorke was having a rough time dealing with celebrity following Ok Computer.
Hey James and plans for the 25th anniversary of Be here now??? Would love to see another documentary style video, or theory xxx
One thing is sure: if Kurt had lived he would know about Noel and Oasis. And the two would clash sometime somewhere in a biblical way.
Idk, the Kurt Cobain of 1992 that felt rebellious clashing with the likes of Axl Rose was died earlier than 94. To risk a counterfactual, if Cobain had lived, gotten some kind of treatment, probably split with Courtney Love, and stabilized, I don't think he'd be in any kind of mood to argue with Oasis. He might even appreciate their shared Beatles sensibilities.
Jabs at his music never really seemed to upset him as much as personal attacks, which is part of what drove him insane.
I can't find James' video on where he goes on about how Morning Glory, Stone Roses Debut, Permission to Land and Grace having a similar story? Did it get deleted? I recently got reminded of it today when listening to Permission To Land, and it's disappeared?
The amount of detail you go in to is astonishing
10:00 Compare that to that horrible Travis Scott concert…musicians actually caring for their fans’ safety. What a concept. How things have changed. I literally have chills right now.
Good video James, I didn't know that story, but I also got to see that the Gallaghers didn't get along with Radiohead either, it would be interesting if you talk about that somewhat hidden rivalry
in many ways i guess you could substitute the members of radiohead to the members of rem and there you have the story. thom yorke is much more micheal stipe/kurt cobain/jeff buckley than he is lennon/ian brown. greenwood is a cerebral, cultured all round musician who has ended up doing academy awards nominated movie soundtracks. with how rowdy liam and noel were in the 90s, it's no wonder they didn't get along. bit like the bully picking on the nerd, i guess. maybe the members of radiohead were smart and did not tap into that feud shit and just minded their own business, unlike blur (and even then.. much of that rivalry seems to be media driven)
I love your videos. So informative.
I did not know anything about this. I do like quite a lot of REM and their sound alongside their musicianship. A brilliant video again James and these kinds of videos are what I love the most, besides your covers and original songs.
It was definitely a homecoming gig for the Gallagher's as their dad Tommy came from the village of Duleek, only five minutes from Slane. They would have visited the area when they were kids.
One important fact not mentioned about Slane Castle is that this was REM's return to the stage after cancelling half their European Tour. (Oasis would have also supported them in Spain and Portugal before Slane, and they did actually support them in Germany on 9 July). 95 had so far seen REM's drummer collapse on stage with a brain aneurysm and then the guitarist needing abdominal surgery, which is why they'd had to stop the tour. It's no wonder they weren't in good spirits if that's what Noel was complaining about. In fact the show in Germany where Oasis supported them was hours before Peter Buck's emergency surgery - can't imagine they were in great spirits that day either. As for Michael Stipe's later comments, just about every Britpop band supported REM at some stage that summer stadium tour (usually three per show). Their concerts at places like Huddersfield and Milton Keynes had turned into pseudo-Britpop celebrations which must also have annoyed them. I was at Huddersfield, half the crowd would have struggled to name more than three REM songs. But for sure, the shadow of Noel's juvenile comments about Kurt Cobain loom over this story.
No, you just don't understand what noel meant and are taking his comments purely on face value
@@ryanname2503 I've never forgiven Liam for calling Kurt a sad CU next Tuesday who couldn't handle his fame. I'm sorry but Noel's comments aren't an isolated incident. I can say that I've never been much impressed by the Gallagher's cockiness - I'd call it arrogance but at least Noel has written some good songs unlike Liam. That said Liam was right to object to shite being thrown at him and they were right to trying to stop the crowd being crushed especially since I think this was the first time they'd played a really big gig.
I was at Huddersfield and I met two teenagers all night who had gone to see REM everyone else was there to see Oasis including me..I'll admit I know 2 REM songs. But know every song by Oasis and seen them many times till they split..REM tickets could be bought face value at any REM gig..Oasis tickets were like hens teeth ( hens don't have teeth if you don't know ) New Man Culture Definition..
Where your Mrs wears the trousers.
Lad culture Definition..Lads are allowed to be lads and their Mrs will love Oasis too and football something Americans can never hope to understand from a country with 2000 + years of history to a country with 200 REM v Oasis no contest Fakers or Originallity..REM will be forgotten..ask any one in the UK to name Oasis songs from 16 up they can name as many as they can name the Beatles .. Ask them to name REM songs reply is Who ??
Who would admit to be a New Man..No one I know..
Kubain, Ian Curtis were sad losses
@@angie-smart-but-casual Whatever ....I'm a Brit and was actually born near Manchester and I think Oasis are the most overated band in the world - they're not talentless or at least Noel isn't but they're very derivative and are, especially Liam, complete cockheads. The two times I saw them at festivals they were incredibly dull too. Nirvana were my favourite band but as my Lancastrian relatives would say 'it wouldn't do for everyone to like the same'. You do you love I would appreciate it if you didn't feel the need to back them slagging off what I love but I guess I can't stop you and I'm kinda over trying to change people's minds it doesn't really get you anywhere. I mean if you get enjoyment from their music fair enough. I will say that the comments thread for a documentary on grunge was a rare exception to the rule because absolutely no one was a twat even when each of the fans of the big four grunge fans tried to assert their fav band was the best. I don't think that would have been the case in a thread about Britpop which to me says a lot about the attitude of both sets of fans. I mean I guess it's complicated because grunge was a one city movement and with Britpop regional rivalries get pulled into it but even so. Lots of my male friends are fine with seen as what they called New Men but if you like arrogant lads then like I said you do you.
@@angie-smart-but-casual think you might have that the wrong way around. Oasis - 2 decent albums and b sides, then nothing and most of the hits from those 2. To be fair both bands went shite after the 90's.
Great video! Thank you!
At 1:37 who is the Eddie that Noel mentions ? Vedder ?
Ye Eddie vedder was moaning about been famous at the time and Kurt whining on about been famous that's seemingly y he wrote live forever
As someone from Ireland there my 2 favourite bands singers rem I've heard since i was like 5 and oasis only started listening to them a few months back and there unreal and i listen to so many songs of the Gallaghers theres just something about oasis got a shock when i just realised this video was on UA-cam and this happened and those 2 bands had a band fallout
Another great video james
James I can tell you unequivocally what happened that day because I was actually there. Backstage at Slane, like at almost all festivals, there's an exclusive area set aside for the headline band alone. Liam, while absolutely hammered, repeatedly tried to gain access to R.E.M.'s exclusive area and was so obnoxious and abusive that he had to be removed from the area by security and rightly so!! I can also confirm that Oasis certainly did NOT show up R.E.M. on the day. They were good, but R.E.M. were head and shoulders above them in every respect. As highlighted in the sound clip that you played, Oasis were persistently pelted with objects from the crowd throughout their set. Finally, Peter Buck from R.E.M. stated in an interview in 1995 that 'The Wake-Up Bomb' was not written about Oasis. It was written about a night out that Michael Stipe had in a club in New York that had a Glam Rock theme.
Oasis ate them alive mate!!
My uncle went and said oasis stole the show and he went for R.E.M
@@nickoneil1113 Complete and utter nonsense. I like Oasis and have seen them the guts of 20 times over the years, but on this day they were little boys and R.E.M. were men.
@@eatsleepdrums Oasis we’re little boys and REM were men? Cmon this was 95, Oasis were absolutely mega at that time. A couple of idiots throwing stones does not mean that REM were better, in fact a lot of oasis gigs in the early days brought trouble as they tried to get a reaction from Noel and Liam. The fact they had to stop the gig a number of times due the crowd being over excited says different.
@@sharman8489 I was at the gig so I'm speaking from my own experience. In 1995 R.E.M. were the biggest band on the planet and their performance at Slane that day (and their performances throughout the the remaining dates they did in the UK that week) showed why. Oasis were good, but certainly weren't at the same level as R.E.M. were that day. I also fail to see how having the gig stopped multiple times due to a crowd surge is evidence that they were the superior band on the day. They certainly weren't.
I bought tickets to see Oasis support REM in Huddersfield 3 days later and Oasis pulled out claiming they needed to finish mixing the new album so Beautiful South stood in for them.
Man your analysis of the spit between British/Irish and /American music culture in the 90s was spot on. And it hasn’t even aligned again
Actually, I'm not sure. America produced many a macho male group at that time, not least the Red Hot Chilli Peppers. The UK produced Pulp, The Divine Comedy, Suede...
@@geraldpower5491 rhcp macho??
An interesting time. Even as a 15-year-old back then I remember being surprised that Oasis were chosen as support for R.E.M. as the bands were as different as you could possibly imagine.
I largely agree with Noel that whining about success is irritating and insulting to those people who would kill for the kind of financial comfort that these band enjoy, but on this occasion I'd cut R.E.M some slack. Let's not forget that a matter of weeks before this gig, their drummer had suffered a brain haemorrhage and almost died. In ordinary circumstances, a band would simply cancel the entire tour and take a few months off, but R.E.M. obviously didn't have that option. They were a massive corporate behemoth at the time, and millions of dollars were riding on them completing this tour. They were forced to continue, despite three of their members having to undergo hospital treatment at various points. I've also read interviews with Peter Buck where he has dropped dark hints of some heinous goings-on in the R.E.M. camp during that tour - details of which he has said he'll never reveal. It must've been really fucking bad - Bill Berry not only quit the band, but music entirely.
I think if you ask Noel now, he'd be a little more charitable. R.E.M. in 1995 were in the position that Oasis found themselves in the early-2000s: a giant corporate money machine that existed for everyone but the band themselves and in which the music was largely incidental. Noel himself has as much as admitted that the post-Creation version of the band was a shadow of its former self and had long since ceased to be any kind of fun.
Like what kind of darkness in the REM camp? What do you suppose
@@Vibeagain I don't know. All I know is that I read and interview with Peter Buck around the time of Up where he said that he was 100% sober throughout the Monster tour as he had to be alert to what was was going on. Like I said, when bands get to the point of playing stadiums, they're a giant money-generating machine and become very attractive to dodgy characters whose only motivation is taking as much for themselves as they can.
After the tour ended, the whole thing kind of fell to bits - Bill Berry jumped ship (likely because he had had enough of the corporate rock world) and the band fired their manager for reasons that have been speculated on, but never become public.
There was also rumoured to be some kind of falling-out with their producer, Scott Litt. In the late 90s, Litt started Outpost records (in association with Geffen) and put out records by Veruca Salt and Whiskeytown. The rumour was that Litt wanted REM to sign with the label, but they re-signed with Warners instead. Their association ended, and Litt never produced another record with them.
The post-Creation Oasis were a sad sight, similar to the Roses at Reading '96. Noel had comprehensively lost his inspiration and was pretty much going through the motions most of the time, backed by a band of pickup musicians going under the name Oasis. The Wembley gig was horrific, and for the years that followed, you got the sense that Noel was looking for an excuse to quit. It wasn't fun any more. Check out the Paolo Hewitt interview for confirmation.
@@snapsnappist4529 I'd like to acknowledge you as a generous and capable writer. Meanwhile, let's just come out and say Michael Stipe started doing smack from his association with Cobain
@@Vibeagain Hahaha, unlikely. Stipe didn't really know him that well - it was Buck who lived in the same Seattle neighbourhood as the Cobains. Besides, as Cobain proved, your can't spend 12 months on the road playing shows if you're on the gear. R.E.M. spent the whole of '95 playing 3-hour arena and stadiums shows and managed to make an album at the same time.
Anyone know who Noel's referring to at the beginning when he says " Eddie " ? Thanks 🙏👍.
Vedder... i'm guessing.
I have never heard of "new man" music and I could go on for hours disproving it. How does Metallica fit? How does Radiohead fit in your Brit description?
Both are great bands.
I thought Liam was born in September 1972 which would have made him 22 almost 23 in July 1995. He was 21 when Definitely Maybe was released. Maybe that is what you meant. Anyway, great video as always.
Wow, that is pretty cool. Two great bands IMHO. Bravo on the research.
Also, I grew up in the US in the 90s and this is the first time I’ve ever heard the term “new man”…
Except Colin Newman ;)
I think there is definitely some weight to the Oasis references in REM songs, but as an REM superfan I would wager that "I had to teach the world to sing" line is probably autobiographical, about Michael. I doubt he went as far as to research Liam's age, and the line works for Michael as well.
That said, both Bomb and Leper likely have references/microaggressions, but it would be a stretch to say are "written about Oasis". Bomb is more of a tribute to Glam Rock than anything, hence the T-Rex and Queen references, so I doubt they're that direct of a go and more of a coincidence given the subject matter. Leper is mostly about late night TV, but that quote from Michael definitely gives it a different air.
Thanks for this video, as fans of both I had never realized they had this clash at this gig. I don't think it takes an expert to imagine they weren't the most compatible people though haha
Liam's talking to the crowd reminds me of Jagger and Richard's pleading to the crowd to "cool out " at the infamous Altamont gig in '69.
Actually Liam less culpable as he didn't hire the dubious security. The Stones hired Hell's Angels - they would later say you make dumb decisions on drugs.
@@EmoBearRights
right. The GD pulled out from performing earlier in the day due to the escalating violence. Ironic because they were the ones that recommended to the Stones about using the Angels in the first place !!
I couldn't help but think of the recent astroworld tragedy and how fans claim that the singer couldn't have done anything. Yet here we have notorious egomaniac rock stars at the peak height of fame who were able to see what was going on, and at least try to do something about it.
My dad loved Michael Stipe and R.E.M. at the time. He also played a lot of Beatles for us as kids, so when Oasis came on we thought it was a new Beatles record. That's how damn good the songwriting was.
At a time when most of the music industry were too afraid to express opinions for fear of alienating fans, Noel (& Liam) were a breath of fresh air!
Slight correction. Both their parents are Irish. Their dad is from Meath, the same county as Slane Castle which is why it was like a homecoming. Their mother is from the other side of the country, Mayo. My brother was there, unfortunately I was only 10. Saw Oasis headline Slane just before the end in Paris.
My favorite "Oasis Nerd" you're the best James!
0:38 Also, Sad Song seems more than a bit influenced by the song Drive by REM.
Slane, Co. Meath is only 15 km from Duleek, Co Meath where Tommy Gallagher is from.
Here's what happened behind the scenes at slane castle 1995, Two fans drowned in the river Boyne trying to get in to the show which prompted stipe in saying oasis behaviour onstage was out of order considering they where pulling two bodies out of the river while the show was going on that's what I remember from that gig it seems to be forgotten though, either way rem where awsome on stage so where oasis
Could you do a deep dive on the history of reception in America for not only Oasis, but Noel (and maybe Liam) Gallagher as well? I'm not only a massive Oasis fan in America, but a massive fan of music from Northern England of the 80s and 90s, specifically artists on the Factory and Creation Records rosters. Additionally, I was watching a UA-cam video of highlights from MTV's 1996 Video Music Awards, and it made me think about how 1996 was absolutely the peak year of popularity for Oasis, especially in America, how the only band in America that could compete with Oasis in 96 for the title of Biggest Band in the World was the Smashing Pumpkins and how Oasis, despite their great and enduring music, never achieved a certain level of popularity in America that other massively successful British bands have achieved. So I thought of a couple of fun ideas for future videos you could do. One would be doing a deep dive on the history of reception in America for not only Oasis, but also Noel (and Liam) Gallagher, and another idea could be discussing how there was a subtle rivalry between Oasis and the Smashing Pumpkins in 96, as evidenced by how the Smashing Pumpkins swept the 96 VMA's in America and Oasis were the big winner at MTV's Europe Music Awards that year. Unfortunately, I can't find the video footage for it anymore, but there was a point at the 96 Europe Music Awards when Alan McGee collected one of Oasis' multiple awards and declared something to the effect that they were the best (British) band since the Beatles. Additionally, there had been video footage of the Smashing Pumpkins' bassist D'Arcy Wretzky, in a backstage interview, when responding to a question about them winning the award in the Best Rock category, very sarcastically responding that Oasis should've won because they're the "best songwriters since Lennon and McCartney" (this in addition to lead singer Billy Corgan saying on stage to the crowd that they should prepare for the 'American Invasion'). Just a couple of ideas for future content, and I think nobody would do a better deep dive than you
The whole New man/lad culture being a whole "movement" that divided UK and US rock is absolute nonsense. Who else apart from Oasis were part of this "movement?" cos their contemporaries at the time Blur, Travis, Stereophonics, Bluestones, Supergrass, Coldplay certainty weren't. Infact I'd argue that the majority of those bands mentioned were lyrically more introspective and leaned more towards "new man" than "Lad culture."
Yeah, it's a shitty subculture that he painted as primarily musical, when it reality it was just a reactionary social behavior - can't even call it a unified movement. Likely hardly any of them did it consciously.
greattttttttttttttt video james!!!!!!!!!!!! upvoted!!!
Brilliant as always
I have always loved the music of Oasis. In fact the very first time I ever "performed music" in front of an audience was when I was in primary school at my local church during an international evening. Me and two mates sang Live Forever while song was playing on CD, so I really enjoy your videos.
I will forever like Oasis but what they clearly mean to you is how I feel about Nirvana (without getting all deep and soppy Nirvana changed my life). I love the detail you put into your videos and I know this is insignificant but I liked how you even chose a relatively rare(or not the typical photo choice) photo of Kurt when you mentioned him in this video.
I wish I could say that I am not one of those over protective Nirvana fans who hates it when somebody bashes Kurt even in jest but I am and that's an understatement. With that said I completely get why Oasis said some of the things they have regarding the attitude certain 90s bands had towards life. I know Noel has huge respect for Kurt as a songwriter and artist. I'm sure bravado had a lot to do with it too but as somebody who has grown up working class and around working class people I am certain there was a lot of sincerity behind those comments.
I like REM a lot but not everything they put out. REM/Stipe and Oasis are about as opposed as it gets so the fact that they clashed is not surprising in the slightest. It would be like Sinead O'Connor going on tour with GG Allin.😆
REM started out punk and were indie before it was a thing really. In many ways they were the ultimate indie band, they turned down support slots, were on a small label and played big venues way before loosing my religion. That song and album was Peter Buck not wanting to play electric for a while. He got interested in other instruments. The Wake up bomb talks about writing the great American novel, can't see Noel or Liam doing that, and Stipe was into Trex etc. REM started in 1980 he would have been 20. So I don't think this one is about Oasis, but might be a few digs.
I love the Channel but not convinced on this one. Also he was out way before the New Man thing.
Idk I've mentioned other references in another comment but 'Id like to teach the world to sing by the age of twenty one' seems a very specific reference to Shakermaker and it's similarity to I'd like to teach the world to sing and the age of especially Liam at the time I think was 19 at the time. I think sometimes though Stipe doesn't just write songs about one thing sometimes.
I think it's just about him tbh.
New test leper isn't about Oasis either in fact there is lots of info about that being about something Stipe saw on TV
REM are not punk ...you can t put REM and the sex pistols in the same bracket lol 😂
@@peteillson8018 No New Test Leper is about a guy who phoned into a show to say he didn't believe in Jesus but liked some of his message and how that did not go well for him. He's right though it's not a song Noel Gallagher would ever write - you can see that as a good or bad thing but it's true.
‘Brothers from childhood to oasis’ by Paul Gallagher
Havn’t read it for a while James but pretty sure there’s information about tension between the bands backstage at slane .
As far as I remember someone died at Slane 95 I think they swam across the river that runs close to get in and died
In the Radio X track by track with REM for Monster, Stipe talks about supports for the 1995 tour. He says something like "We took Sonic Youth out on tour and Radiohead, Blur, Oasis, Cranberries.. a lot of really great bands".
I think theres a mutual respect musically between them. It must have been a great show anyway.
The difference was that most of US rock was part of the 'gen X' mentality typified by grunge and Nirvana, but also to an extent REM. The gen X mentality is the US seemed musically to be serious, often to the point of being miserabilist. It was about rebelling against the cheesy 80's rock and Regan era capitalism.
In the UK, what was happening at the same time? The rave and ecstasy explosion (Noel was also a raver and Hacienda regular in the late 80's). All the mid 90's britpop culture, which was very positive, was heavily influenced by the rave era a few years earlier. It pretty much carried on the party that had been started, but with different music.
In the US, they think of the early 90's rock as being introspective time in music. In the UK it was the opposite, the music scene was very positive and celebratory.
I read an article about Nirvana's first gigs in the UK in late '89. Kurt Cobain grew up being a huge fan of British bands, but when he arrived in Manchester, a journalist was explaining the whole Madchester indie dance scene that was massive with The Roses and the Mondays, and he just couldn't get his head around it. It just seemed alien to what he expected the British music scene to be.
the gen x ppl were the og ravers and hiphop heads. wtf ru talking about. in the states for 30 years after nirvana rock was basically on the back burner. and still is. tis why i seem to only like uk rock. i get what ur saying. but not everyone prescribed to the misery.
@@chrisschneider850
Well Nirvana themselves and other grunge bands were not into hip hp or rave.
I think that would go for a large demographic of their US fans too.
Band like the Chilli Peppers were into funk and rap, but the Seattle scene, not really at all.
Like I said there's an article from 1989 when they were touring Bleach in Th UK, and KC couldn't understand how the UK guitar music was so linked to club and house music.
Hi James, I am your new subscriber from Indonesia. Can you add Indonesian subtitles in all of your videos?? There's so many Oasis fanbase in Indonesia. Thank you James 👍
Nice video, again full of interesting background information. I've always been a huge REM fan, but Michael Stipe can be a real Diva sometimes and that might not always go to well with the Gallagher brothers, really. Just as you describe in the video. But somehow I am not too sure if Wake-Up bomb is really a diss-track. or even hostile. When you listen to it, it just doesn't have that negative timbre, despite the lyrics (I'm dumb, pond scum). To me, it sounds more like a snapshot of Oasis how he found them that day and how he sees their attitude and what that does with the scene. The lyrics are too directly offensive to be meant as an attack. Anyways, Diva 😛 I listen to Morning glory again and I actually don't think that the riff is stolen. It's rather what happens when you noodle over an Em-D Chord progression in the studio to get some overdubs in and then it turns out like this. I'm sure the original idea for the song riffs was different.
who was the Eddie that Liam mentioned @1:34 ?
I wish Kurt Cobain could have met and heard Oasis. I truly believe they would have had a profound and positive effect on him. Weirdly enough, his daughter is a MASSIVE Oasis fan!
Kurt would have loved Oasis' music but would have detested the Gallagher's unfortunately due to being polar opposites in personality.
@@CharlesDarkson and Liam’s treatment of women
Kurt Cobain loved the Beatles, and no Beatles fan ever loved Oasis.
Just subscribed to your channel.
Great footage mate, thanks for your excellent job!!🤙⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐😎
To be fair, New Adventures In Hi-Fi is probably the last front-to-back classic R.E.M. put out. (Although I have a major soft spot for Reveal)