Was doing 28mm 24 figure units. But recently halved sized units to double amount of different units which allows me to play the bigger battles with the current stock of figures I have. It still looks and feels great to me.
First of all great video! Thanks for your entire series. I'm a new player when it comes to Blackpowder and 28mm Napoleonics. The other week my father and I played our very first test game using this rule system and the few units that I had managed to paint for us (5 batallions a side)... It was fun, and enough to get us going, learning some basics... how to move units along, how to do assaults etc. But I could feel that we need more miniatures painted ASAP for the game to develop into what it can really be... so my goal is to have three full brigades for each of us painted by the end of the summer... There is one thing that also has to be taken into account for new players getting to know the game... many might not have access to big tables yet... I assume most will first go out and get the minis, and then as time goes on, terrain, tabletop etc... this puts a limit on the scale of your battles just as much as your ability to put together an army.
@@NapoleonicWargaming I ended up painting about two brigades worth of English and French each... then got distracted by other projects... atm I'm almost finished painting the entire Norman army from the battle of Hastings and am moving on to the Saxons... one day I will get back to my Napoleonics... My father's interest in the Napoleonic project kinda died, so I moved on the dark ages...
In my eyes, scaling down is like slowly sliding into the abyss. To me the attraction of Napoleonic wargaming is the sight and use of large armies. It's what's makes Napoleonic epic and stand out. Painting stamina required. :)
Brits 1815 guards division . 1st British brigade 1/1st foot guards 1000+ men. 2/1st foot guards 1000+ men. 2nd British brigade 2/2nd foot guards 1000+ men 2/3rd foot guards 1000+ men I thin I have the battalion numbers correct and the numbers of men, but the last time that I looked at the orbat for the guards was 1971 . But for an evenings game 50 guardsmen (figures) per battalion were unbeatable against line battalions of 40 figures so we used a points system (I think from J and S Read) or weather someone picked it up from another book like London Wargames Section. Before that. I had 20 figures per battalion Hinton Hunt and Mini Figs. Which were more fragile.
Always really liked 15mm as a nice compromise scale. enough to get a decent bit of detail on individual units, but not so big so as to take up a bunch of space and being a long labors project to paint. works good for both skirmish and battle as well. relly wish more people did 15mm.
Great video mate 👍 i agree, have to get in some smaller games to keep the drive for the project going. I love large games with 20 - 30 batallions but we have had some cracking games using a couple of brigades of 4 units each, some of my favourite in fact. As you say with a few minor adjustments these games give just as good a feel for Black Powder as the large games
Very good video! When i start my brigade deal I may do this, so I don’t need to paint 176 french before i can play 😂😂. Can we please have a scaling up video as well, I would find it quite interesting with the commands and divisional assets etc!
Thanks for this video discussing… scale… from the perspective of number of units & divisional sized vs lesser size formations. Could you also discuss on a video… scale… from the perspective of using… 1:72 figures. Thanks
Very useful as always. Any suggestions for a rule set that would be good for smaller actions but above skirmish rules - say 2 battalions, a cavalry squadron or 2 and half a battery per side. Thinking of the actions between elements of Friant's division and Austrian I and II corps at the outset of the 1809 campaign(Hirschau, Amberg etc)
My pals and I generally play at around 500 points. It allows you to get a decent sized army with all the elements of an army (i.e. infantry, cavalry, artillery) while not being too massive or games taking an eternity.
I agree with comments that you cannot beat the full splendour of seeing massed ranks of Infantry and cavalry with grand batteries of guns. When starting, with figures and rules I think it makes sense to start with a smaller force, as described in the video. I am planing to start a club and I feel it would be more fun for newconers to see a more comprehensive "finish" to a game rather than spending a lot of time moving many units only to have most of them left untouched at the end. You did not mention the term skirmish and I guess that may be an alternative way to go, as long as it is an all arms affair.
I am sort of your opposite. I love games with about 8 - 12 units to maneuver. I was going to build small brigades, lie 2 infantry battalions and a battery in a brigade. I had not considered dialing the level of command down a level, but it makes a lot of sense and I may try that as well. I like units of at lest 16 figures per unit (at 12, you can still sort of count them and see the figures as individuals. At 16 or more, your eye tells you that there are quite a few figures there. 24 is a good number and a lot of players use units of that size. To me, when you go beyond 24 you are (1) spending more than is necessary per unit, you are taking half again as long to paint them (and, I, like you don't really enjoy painting...I do enjoy having painted and having the unit when it is done), and you are also making them more unwieldy and increasing the size of the table you need to play. With 16 figures per unit, you can cut down on the space needed, speed up painting, and keep the cost down. You can always add more figures to beef up your units later. So, for the smallest game, maybe 4 infantry battalions, 2 cavalry regiments and a battery of artillery [that combination would make a nice little game]. Then add more infantry until you perhaps have 6 - 8 infantry battalions, 2 cavalry regiments and a battery of artillery. If you build the army correctly, like having two infantry battalions and a battery in a brigade (as I mentioned above) you have to destroy both battalions to break the brigade and the little army will last longer on the battlefield.
Most wargamers don’t have the space for a 10 feet X 6 feet table. 6 feet X 4 feet is more the normal size so I use 18mm and 15mm figures. That means a 1/3rd reduction in base size. The best size for infantry is around 16mm wide x 25mm in depth but more animated figures may need a 20mm x 25mm base and that means you can buy MDF bases. At the moment I’m looking at the possibility of a seven years war army level game. Seven Years War has a CinC and a left Wing and a right Wing the cavalry are usually on the flanks of the army. Artillery is usually deployed close to a road as it was likely to sink into soft ground. A brigade can be formed from 3 or more battalions or if like the French and Austrians with regiments of 3 battalions a brigade is likely to be 2 or more regiments. As a matter of interest in Britain to find a brigadier the highest rank of officer say a colonel would become a brigadier but would still retain his substantive rank of colonel in the navy a lieutenant commanding a ship would become a commander but still remained a lieutenant when he left that ship or was posted a captain the Sami applied to a commodore who was the senior captain commanding a squadron of 2 or more ships. A wing consisted of a number of brigades and often included the cavalry on his wing unless there was someone who was an able cavalry commander or who may be senior to the wing commander to save any command issues. To save space I could make bases of 1 rank only and reduce the figure strength this will reduce the depth of a battalion but not the width. As you say reducing to brigade level is a good way to grasp the CinC’s problems of command and control. A way to practice this is to play solo games which is easy enough because both armies are controlled by your dice rolls.
Hi great video really cool topic, I just wanted to open a discussion being I don't know why in alot of other black powder videos across multiple channels it's 3 french battalions in regiment? Is that in a black powder rule book or somthing because I can remember reading some historical material saying that 1 battalion was a depot battalion and 2 would be in the field formation, in alot of order of battle wiki pages they often say this regiment, 1 and 2 battalions so I just wondered if there was a reason or if players prefer having more battalions or somthing?
A good way to change scale is to make the brigade the tactical unit rather than the battalion or rgt., which admittedly probably works better for the ACW than Napoleonics.
I had the same thought when I started. I decided to base my minis in a way I could split the batallion into two of a single line, now, another thing, maybe I want to go for skirmish games first before diving into brigade or divison games, so now the question remains: do I base the figures individually or two a base? 😅
Interesting video. I was thinking that picking a smaller battle as a template might be q good idea... buy that might be because I'm Assaye mad at the moment and the British only had 7 inf regt there.
I have gone down this route and game on a 9’x5 ‘.... full Size units 28 mm 24 figs inf units eg: but just division against division with a reserve as a pick up or else historical ORBAT Reduced
I think you need to play to the size of table/s that are available or you might be building and painting figures that you just might not use but as someone who only paints because of having no space to set up a board or any club to attend then I'm not able to really answer this question, I just paint battalions knowing that they will never be used in a game.
I was somewhat disappointed when I started watching this. Having a large 15mm collection, I was hoping this covered playing in that scale. Great video, though. Is there a conversion system for BP to 15mm scale? Other than buying the new ACW Epic Battles? I've been playing since the 1980s and have tried various systems from Battles for Empire to LaSalle and Blucher. I see a lot of content on the web about BP, and my FLGS carries the line, so I was hoping there was a way to put on a game there once my local area opens up again.
Yeah, I thought a few people might think that, I was trying to think of a different way of working it, but couldn't! For 15mm I think it's a super easy conversion, just take all the measurements and replace inches with centimetres!
Warlord Games will release epic kits for the Battle of Waterloo. Warlord Games will release epic kits for the Battle of Waterloo. More in the next issue of Wargames Illustrated.
Was doing 28mm 24 figure units. But recently halved sized units to double amount of different units which allows me to play the bigger battles with the current stock of figures I have. It still looks and feels great to me.
First of all great video! Thanks for your entire series. I'm a new player when it comes to Blackpowder and 28mm Napoleonics. The other week my father and I played our very first test game using this rule system and the few units that I had managed to paint for us (5 batallions a side)... It was fun, and enough to get us going, learning some basics... how to move units along, how to do assaults etc. But I could feel that we need more miniatures painted ASAP for the game to develop into what it can really be... so my goal is to have three full brigades for each of us painted by the end of the summer... There is one thing that also has to be taken into account for new players getting to know the game... many might not have access to big tables yet... I assume most will first go out and get the minis, and then as time goes on, terrain, tabletop etc... this puts a limit on the scale of your battles just as much as your ability to put together an army.
I've only just seen this comment from a year ago! How did your painting ambitions turn out?! Had any chances to play a larger game?!
@@NapoleonicWargaming I ended up painting about two brigades worth of English and French each... then got distracted by other projects... atm I'm almost finished painting the entire Norman army from the battle of Hastings and am moving on to the Saxons... one day I will get back to my Napoleonics... My father's interest in the Napoleonic project kinda died, so I moved on the dark ages...
In my eyes, scaling down is like slowly sliding into the abyss. To me the attraction of Napoleonic wargaming is the sight and use of large armies. It's what's makes Napoleonic epic and stand out. Painting stamina required. :)
And an indoors fottball field to manouvre...
Haha, it's a fair point! I think it can be intimidating for newbs to get into think they have to paint hundreds of minis before they get to play
With a smaller scale, I think you can field larger armies and you can still paint them with a lot of detail.
Brits 1815 guards division .
1st British brigade
1/1st foot guards 1000+ men.
2/1st foot guards 1000+ men.
2nd British brigade
2/2nd foot guards 1000+ men
2/3rd foot guards 1000+ men
I thin I have the battalion numbers correct and the numbers of men, but the last time that I looked at the orbat for the guards was 1971 .
But for an evenings game 50 guardsmen (figures) per battalion were unbeatable against line battalions of 40 figures so we used a points system (I think from J and S Read) or weather someone picked it up from another book like London Wargames Section.
Before that. I had 20 figures per battalion Hinton Hunt and Mini Figs. Which were more fragile.
When I see BP in 28mm it reminds me of a pre battle skirmish. When I see BP on the same sized table in 10mm it reminds me of epic Napoleonic battles.
I'm so pleased to hear my question sparked this video. Fantastic stuff
Always really liked 15mm as a nice compromise scale. enough to get a decent bit of detail on individual units, but not so big so as to take up a bunch of space and being a long labors project to paint. works good for both skirmish and battle as well. relly wish more people did 15mm.
Great video mate 👍 i agree, have to get in some smaller games to keep the drive for the project going. I love large games with 20 - 30 batallions but we have had some cracking games using a couple of brigades of 4 units each, some of my favourite in fact. As you say with a few minor adjustments these games give just as good a feel for Black Powder as the large games
I always found adequate support and a passage of lines if the enemy lets you:-
“..I enjoy having painted figures..” 😎🤠 sums it all up for me 🤓 cheers from holland
I just started putting my first battalion together...
Damn are there a lot of dudes!!!
Very good video! When i start my brigade deal I may do this, so I don’t need to paint 176 french before i can play 😂😂. Can we please have a scaling up video as well, I would find it quite interesting with the commands and divisional assets etc!
Thanks for this video discussing… scale… from the perspective of number of units & divisional sized vs lesser size formations.
Could you also discuss on a video… scale… from the perspective of using… 1:72 figures. Thanks
Very useful as always. Any suggestions for a rule set that would be good for smaller actions but above skirmish rules - say 2 battalions, a cavalry squadron or 2 and half a battery per side. Thinking of the actions between elements of Friant's division and Austrian I and II corps at the outset of the 1809 campaign(Hirschau, Amberg etc)
My pals and I generally play at around 500 points. It allows you to get a decent sized army with all the elements of an army (i.e. infantry, cavalry, artillery) while not being too massive or games taking an eternity.
I agree with comments that you cannot beat the full splendour of seeing massed ranks of Infantry and cavalry with grand batteries of guns.
When starting, with figures and rules I think it makes sense to start with a smaller force, as described in the video.
I am planing to start a club and I feel it would be more fun for newconers to see a more comprehensive "finish" to a game rather than spending a lot of time moving many units only to have most of them left untouched at the end.
You did not mention the term skirmish and I guess that may be an alternative way to go, as long as it is an all arms affair.
Like to see some talk about basing options.
I am sort of your opposite. I love games with about 8 - 12 units to maneuver. I was going to build small brigades, lie 2 infantry battalions and a battery in a brigade. I had not considered dialing the level of command down a level, but it makes a lot of sense and I may try that as well. I like units of at lest 16 figures per unit (at 12, you can still sort of count them and see the figures as individuals. At 16 or more, your eye tells you that there are quite a few figures there. 24 is a good number and a lot of players use units of that size. To me, when you go beyond 24 you are (1) spending more than is necessary per unit, you are taking half again as long to paint them (and, I, like you don't really enjoy painting...I do enjoy having painted and having the unit when it is done), and you are also making them more unwieldy and increasing the size of the table you need to play. With 16 figures per unit, you can cut down on the space needed, speed up painting, and keep the cost down. You can always add more figures to beef up your units later. So, for the smallest game, maybe 4 infantry battalions, 2 cavalry regiments and a battery of artillery [that combination would make a nice little game]. Then add more infantry until you perhaps have 6 - 8 infantry battalions, 2 cavalry regiments and a battery of artillery. If you build the army correctly, like having two infantry battalions and a battery in a brigade (as I mentioned above) you have to destroy both battalions to break the brigade and the little army will last longer on the battlefield.
Most Napoleonic wargamers don't have the foggiest clue what was going down on a Napoleonic battlefield.
Most wargamers don’t have the space for a 10 feet X 6 feet table. 6 feet X 4 feet is more the normal size so I use 18mm and 15mm figures.
That means a 1/3rd reduction in base size. The best size for infantry is around 16mm wide x 25mm in depth but more animated figures may need a 20mm x 25mm base and that means you can buy MDF bases. At the moment I’m looking at the possibility of a seven years war army level game.
Seven Years War has a CinC and a left Wing and a right Wing the cavalry are usually on the flanks of the army. Artillery is usually deployed close to a road as it was likely to sink into soft ground. A brigade can be formed from 3 or more battalions or if like the French and Austrians with regiments of 3 battalions a brigade is likely to be 2 or more regiments.
As a matter of interest in Britain to find a brigadier the highest rank of officer say a colonel would become a brigadier but would still retain his substantive rank of colonel in the navy a lieutenant commanding a ship would become a commander but still remained a lieutenant when he left that ship or was posted a captain the Sami applied to a commodore who was the senior captain commanding a squadron of 2 or more ships.
A wing consisted of a number of brigades and often included the cavalry on his wing unless there was someone who was an able cavalry commander or who may be senior to the wing commander to save any command issues.
To save space I could make bases of 1 rank only and reduce the figure strength this will reduce the depth of a battalion but not the width.
As you say reducing to brigade level is a good way to grasp the CinC’s problems of command and control.
A way to practice this is to play solo games which is easy enough because both armies are controlled by your dice rolls.
Somehow, I knew you'd go for the fighting third as an example :p (yep, just what I'm doing)
Hi great video really cool topic, I just wanted to open a discussion being I don't know why in alot of other black powder videos across multiple channels it's 3 french battalions in regiment? Is that in a black powder rule book or somthing because I can remember reading some historical material saying that 1 battalion was a depot battalion and 2 would be in the field formation, in alot of order of battle wiki pages they often say this regiment, 1 and 2 battalions so I just wondered if there was a reason or if players prefer having more battalions or somthing?
Currently painting 15mm Austrians for DBN & Shako II. If I get 28mm I think I will buy painted because by paint table is overflowing lol.
A good way to change scale is to make the brigade the tactical unit rather than the battalion or rgt., which admittedly probably works better for the ACW than Napoleonics.
I never like using 1815 Brits for peninsula battles although the 28th. Foot will do for both but it did cost.
I had the same thought when I started. I decided to base my minis in a way I could split the batallion into two of a single line, now, another thing, maybe I want to go for skirmish games first before diving into brigade or divison games, so now the question remains: do I base the figures individually or two a base? 😅
I used to base skirmishers individually, but laziness has won out and I now base in pairs 😂. It also allo3w you to make little vignettes
French brigade is almost finished ( infantry) I keep getting distracted by the cavalry brigade thats up next . I would love to play aspern- essling.
Interesting video. I was thinking that picking a smaller battle as a template might be q good idea... buy that might be because I'm Assaye mad at the moment and the British only had 7 inf regt there.
I'd love to do Assaye. India is very under represented in Naps
I have gone down this route and game on a 9’x5 ‘.... full
Size units 28 mm 24 figs inf units eg: but just division against division with a reserve as a pick up or else historical ORBAT Reduced
I think you need to play to the size of table/s that are available or you might be building and painting figures that you just might not use but as someone who only paints because of having no space to set up a board or any club to attend then I'm not able to really answer this question, I just paint battalions knowing that they will never be used in a game.
If I ever venture into black powder rules it shall be in 10mm. 28mm for me shall be reaerved for Sharp Practice
I was somewhat disappointed when I started watching this. Having a large 15mm collection, I was hoping this covered playing in that scale. Great video, though. Is there a conversion system for BP to 15mm scale? Other than buying the new ACW Epic Battles?
I've been playing since the 1980s and have tried various systems from Battles for Empire to LaSalle and Blucher.
I see a lot of content on the web about BP, and my FLGS carries the line, so I was hoping there was a way to put on a game there once my local area opens up again.
Yeah, I thought a few people might think that, I was trying to think of a different way of working it, but couldn't!
For 15mm I think it's a super easy conversion, just take all the measurements and replace inches with centimetres!
@@NapoleonicWargaming Thanks. That sounds simple enough. And it gives me another opportunity to use the tape measures I bought for Cruel Seas.
Oh so your like me? Dreaming of doing Waterloo man for man?
Warlord Games will release epic kits for the Battle of Waterloo. Warlord Games will release epic kits for the Battle of Waterloo. More in the next issue of Wargames Illustrated.
Sad we can't add photos
Can't even do links to a blog or photo account any more, youtube deletes posts with them.
Where's your 95th Rifles? Sharpe needs to get some blood on 'im.
Subbed, but wanted to drop my username here