Who Owns an Abandoned Vessel?
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- Опубліковано 25 лип 2024
- #superyacht #superyachts #yachts #boats
Who owns a vessel that was abandoned? This is the title and topic of this video. Along with correcting a couple of issues in the last video to do with the type of vessel this vessel is. I mentioned the vessel that got into trouble in Palma last year was a semi-submersible and it seemed to suggest this was the same type of vessel in Norway. However the vessel is a heavy lifting vessel (uses large cranes to lift cargo onboard).
We also talk about how salvage contracts work for vessels that have been abandoned.
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Just to clarify, first batch of rescue airlifted 8 people from deck. Second batch of rescue airlifted last 4 people from the sea.
4 People stayed behind to see if they could rescue the vessel, but later decided to abandon ship as they did not manage to secure the listing of the ship.
We salvaged an abandoned sail boat once. We, the crew, were interviewed by someone (some sort of attorney, I think) and we all agreed that the boat be returned to it's owner. Sadly the owners of our vessel decided to take ownership of the boat. I was really sorry for the owner because it was a great loss for him. He was at least, in the end, able to remove his belongings.
Great information esysman. I thrive on information and you ALWAYS satisfy.
Always interesting videos. Great explanation of “abandon vessels”
Always informative. Thank you!
Great info! I am loving it having a rational experienced explanation.
Thanks a lot! Your videos are the best! The maritime world is pretty alien to me and you shed some light in all that. Thanks and good luck to you!
Dutch merchant navy gossip system says the contract with Smit Salvage was there before the last person stepped off.
Also after the salvage guyes docked here, the original crew went back on board, and are working on their ship now.
Thank you so much for your explanations and videos. Please don’t stop.
Interesting. Thanks for the research and update!!!
I truly appreciate your program.Thankyou
Great Video as usual thanks for the update.
Excellent video, I wasn't aware of what had happened, thanks for covering this and always delete and block youtube trolls 😊👍
Thanks for the great info and your time.
Thanks for this most interesting update. I was curious as to the aftermath of the story.
another fascinating video! thanks!
liking the new backdrop
That was a great explanation of salvaged the Sea. In the simplest form. 100% guarantee the legalities are much more complicated.
My dad salvage a small outboard aluminum fishing boat many years ago on the California coast. That aluminum fishing boat set beside our house for several years while the insurance companies haggle over who owned the boat who is going to pay for the boat and what was going to become of the boat. My dad and I decided the boat was Damaged beyond repair.
My dad finally settled for a few bucks and the carcass of the bullet which is sold for aluminum beer cans prices.
Thank you for talking about these Rescue
One thing people watching you have to understand is. These Heavy lift vessel. When they move cantainer cranes ( after new build) to terminal port it will work it's life. You can bet that the weather plays the most important part of that move. To me it looks impossible to move any of the container cranes, it amazing
To cross Oceans.
Thanks! Useful info )))
Interesting. Thanks for the clarification
Thank you for reporting this concern.
Thank you for the video!
Very good information
Thank you thank you
for sharing
Great video.
Lots of frames behind you I see, any plans to put pictures in any of them? Haha :)
Eyup from Derbyshire. Don't worry about no photos in your frames. You need blinds in your windows!!
Those 'windows' are doors.
Thank you for the video.
Traditionally, the amount of hazard and difficulty for the salvor to save the ship is also factored in when the admiralty court determines the award.
The ship is listing due to massive bronze propeller have come lose and moved under deck!!!
... this is an astonishing rescue, wonderful courage & a brilliant winch mechanism .. yes, the narrow vessel ,far too top-heavy ... what a listing jostle for everything & everyone ... so grateful for the successful rescue ... I'm contemplating joining our local Search & Rescue ... I would be best @ nav & radio comm ... I'm a bit old now for the rough & ready stuff ... but, I do have the courage of a lion ...cool head, true heart ...***Maritime Law; I'll be certainly looking into Crews & their Legal Rights & wellbeing
I think you will find that the salvor is entitled to a fair percentage of the recovered value commensurate with the dangers undertaken to save the vessel this includes the value of the cargo if any and in this case a residual on the value of the yachts on board and the green one that was also recovered. Lloyds open form for salvage no cure no pay. If you are the salvor you could be under contract which would specify the amount payable or under open form where a committee at lloyds will decide the amount to be awarded.
I explained this in the video
Actually you said the value of the salvaged vessel not a percentage.
@@malcolmholder3149 he said that if there is no contract, when there is a contract, that is the agreement
4K more subs ... well done
Just out of curiosity, when a vessel is officially abandoned and a non-contracted salvager manages to salvage the ship, is he entitled to the cargo, as well? So, in the case of the yacht transport, if that had been abandoned with 10 yachts attached and the salvage effort successfully salvaged the carrier and the yachts onboard, does the salvager get to keep the yachts, too, or are those returned to their owners? If the salvager gets to keep the lot, that a chunk of change in his pocket. Thanks for a very interesting video!
That green ship is impressive, perhaps self righting? It was thrown overboard and didn't even sink but was salvaged (unknown to me with how much damage)
AQS Tor was a new built vessel for fish farming. It was made to work in open sea on the Norwegian west coast so it is no doubt a solid ship. It did get some damage from crashing into the crane before it was thrown off, but no major damage it seems. They got a bit lucky I would say.
"Never step down into a life raft"
When Smit took the contract, they sent out a "tug". When they "send out a tug", they don't mess around. Would you look at the size of that thing.
Probably a good thing that they had to evacuate in the Norwegian sea, since there is a lot of offshore tugs in the area.
It answers a question about the difference between a salvaged and a stolen vessel.
Thanks
Smit is one of the most famous salvage companies in the world. they were hired in fact. like in the suez canal
They have a really cool channel themselves.
Smit didn’t not have control over the rescue. The Norwegian government rescue department took control over the operation because Smit didn’t get a tow line onboard before the ship was too close to shoreline. But they was kept on as expert help.
i was in the MN for most of my working life and i believe that any salvage money awarded would be split between the entire crew
I love the information you have given. My question is, if an owner operator of say a 90 ft yacht abandoned ship because of it listing and it does not sink, can a salvage company or individual that manages to recover it lay claim to it?
yes, but you have to give the right full owner X amount of time to pay a certain percentage of the value of the ship and cargo to you. then you have to give it back. if they don't it and the cargo is yours.
Best to go via a court in this case to be sure of your legal grounds.
Salvage at sea always reminds me of the John Wayne classic “Reap the wild wind”
Your frames are reminiscent of the decor of a Pearl 95. Nice.
Thanks for interesting fact. another Question. how much does it cost for a super yacht or sailingyacht to cross the Suezcanal ? Thanks
Very interesting...
Do a video about the $1 Billion "ransom" by Egypt to release Ever Given.
Do you have a source for this?
Awesome
I know someone who was offered a large sum to recover boats/s from a war zone in harbour , they refused as way too dangerous
Interesting and I wanted a VW/Porche/Bugati/Bently on that shift that caught fire and was abandoned recently.
BOAT NOTIFICATION GANG !
Somehow I can envision a fleet of "ambulance chasing" salvage ships awaiting for the final person to be rescued and then they would all swoop in to try to salvage the ship. 😜
I used to work on a ship that did just that around the UK mainly English channel, sometimes we would wait nearly a year without a job.
@@hardergamer mmm i do like a nice Lloyds open form...........
Any idea what happened to the Palmer - Johnson yacht “Time”. Built in the late 80’s, had jet drives. Enjoy your videos.
The Yacht Time is at American Custom Yacht in st Lucie county and can be seen from the Turnpike.(In s. W. Corner of yard)
Florida gets a lot of small abandoned vessels... could make a good project boat😁
Thank you for educating us all further on maritime laws. I wonder if all of the vessels that "abandoned ship" were recovered, I know that the big green one was recovered.
Schmidt Salvage must be making a fortune at the moment!
Fyi It's spelled Smit Salvage, and they have a channel.
Can you ninja salvage before contract salvagers appear? . When exactly does the process of `salvage ` actually start ?
What happens if you get there before the tow company that was hired gets there
Are you still able to take it?
Normally they will use a contract called “lloyds open” for a rescue operation like this. The sum payed out will be determined in court later and the grade of danger and the success of the operation will be a defending factor. Basically “ no cure, no pay”. In this case the Norwegian state intervened due to the fact the vessel was drifting towards shore causing a major position had it hit the rocks. The four guys whom secured the tow was from the Netherlands but the tugs were Norwegian. A vessel from the Norwegian coastguard were also in the vicinity.
Presume some maritime lawyers will be busy in the months to follow.
What about Lloyds Open Form ~ does it still exist ?
👍🏻thanks
And here i was getting ready to go get that boat. They beat me to it.
Good explanation! However what IF a salvage company is on the abandoned ship scene BEFORE a contract is legally executed to the second company?
Most times a salvage company is immediately contracted. And there is a reason the ship got abandoned. You are not steaming up there with a fishing boat to quickly salvage a ship. Salvors re highly specialized companies with dedicated tools for the job.
But if a non- contract reaches the vessel before the contracted company? What then?
On salvage: Was this a Lloyds Open Form Contract?
sunday afternoon love it
Wow that scary
They are both called heavy lift vessels, the first being specifically a semi submersible heavy lift.
Sir
I think you missed the next obvious question.
Providing that a salvor does affect a rescue, and has a compensation, what part does the crew of the rescuing vessel receive?
Something similar happen to me in the game Eve online . I found a cargo vessel in space but my character did not have the skills to pilot it . plus no way one person can pilot out the ship home without support . the corporation I was a part of sent pilots and support and the ship was piloted back home .
What happens if a nearby salvage team are in before the hired company get on scene ? Unlikely I know but possible
Very good question i was about to ask the same thing, my guess is who ever gets first is his
@@frankiegregoriou4604 That law is BS and need to change.
@@farzana6676 Why? Its a good law.
@@christianmagno984 If I am planning to go back and get my boat tomorrow... And then you try to go today, how does it become your boat.
There should be a law that if no attempts to recover the boat by the owner are made within 21 days or something then third parties are allowed to salvage it and keep it.
@@farzana6676 I think thats typical of coward mindset, you abandon the ship thats it! Who gets on first best served.
I understand what you mean it could happen to my self swell but I think that this law of the sea as been implemented to discourage crews to abandon their ship and loose it together with the cargo at first signs of SHTF scenario.
This seems dangerous since people might risk their lives for fear of abandoning and loosing the vessel
We're learning about these maritime laws
you should do an actual video explaining the expenses related to yacht sizes/years. not based on the price when bought. I think a lot of people would be interested and would bring a lot of views
you could also make it a series, for example 30-40m, 40-50m and so on idk the ranges but going up do mega yachts would be cool especially to see the difference between a 40-50m yacht
Insurance policies must look like the encyclopedia. Too long to read, until you have need of the information 😂😂😂
Thanks for the overview of salvage rules.
An interesting video, but the topic still begs the question as to what happens to the abandoned vessel off Egypt left with only the first officer onboard (as covered in the video by Chief Mako). Could you find the answer to that?
They guy signed a paper he shouldn't have signed he's own stupidity!. And Chris Mako eksplaned it quite well i have to say!
Curious, is the insurance for the boats being transported the responsibility of the boat owner or the company that owns the transport ship?
On deck it will typically be carried ‘at shippers risk’. A cargo owner needs to get cargo insurance prior shipping.
@@nicolasdenis7094 Thanks
Question: what about warships if you salvage one do you get to keep it or some government will pay you what the ship is worth???
Haha, no that’s a very different thing.
Do you know of any Navy’s that let their captains abandon a ship that isn’t actively in the process of sinking. There is a quite a difference between merchant mariners and commissioned navel officers and crew when it comes to the risks they are required to take.
I was taught that you should never abandon a vessel until you have to step UP into the liferaft as was shown by the sad loss of life in the Fastnet race disaster.
One of the guys that I grew up with & was a college roommate, Rick Ryan, salvaged a super tanker 45 miles SE of Galveston in 1983. He & another friend were working for Ryan Marine, Rick’s dad’s supply & crew boat service, servicing super tankers & rigs in the Gulf. They were sitting in the office at the Port of Galveston late Saturday afternoon (January if I remember correctly) & hear the Aegean Sun distress call, taking on water. The Gulf is really shallow for a long way out. The two of them jump in the fastest crew boat & head out to the Aegean Sun. They get there & discover that the tanker has grounded itself in 45 feet of water to keep from sinking. The gangway was down. Rick tried repeatedly to hail the bridge of the Sun because the vessel was dark & in a marine navigation channel(?). After failing to raise anyone, Rick boards the Aegean Sun, only to find it completely abandoned. He radios to my other friend to bring the supply boat back around & unloads all of the lanterns & his rifle. He tells other friend to go back to Galveston & get his dad & uncles and all of the pumps that they can rent. Rick then raises the gangway & settles in for the night. The next day the hired salvage crew shows up & one of the biggest international incidents in merchant shipping commences. The salvage crew repeatedly asks to be let on board, Rick refusing. News helicopters fly around the Sun for days. I don’t remember if Rick actually fired warning shots, but I remember it that way. News telephoto cameras showing Rick on the deck of the Aegean Sun in his black knit cap, one man against the world, labeled him a modern day pirate. Rick & crew did successfully float the Aegean Sun & tow it to Galveston after what seems like two weeks or so. Those of us that knew him, knew that if he knew he was in the right, there was no moving him. At 23 years old, he made enough to live off of for a decade or two because of that Saturday evening run. 1983 was pre-internet of course & I haven’t tried to google it, but you should be able to verify most of my story.
If a company is contracted to salvage a vessel, and they arrive before the salvage is completed by another person, the other person has to yield the the salvage company. If on the other hand, a person has completed the savage of a vessel, the person is entitled to compensation. In the case you mentioned, the ship was grounded. Salvage was not completed. Each case is different, and the nit-picking of insurance companies has muddied the case. In one of the Sydney to Hobart races, one of the yachts was abandoned. It was later recovered by a private party. The insurance company refused to pay the salvage fee, but got a court injunction to keep the salvor from selling the vessel. I never heard what the final results were, but I suspect the insurance company was trying to make it as hard and unpleasant to recover the value. Thi9s of course, would be a legal precedent.
@@andrewgillis3073 I’m sure you are right. I have no knowledge of the law, just personal knowledge of this incident. There was definitely a very public court battle afterward. However, Rick did not yield, completed the salvage, and towed the ship to Galveston.
If the ship is insured by Lloyds the salvage company can wait like vultures until lloyds offer a reasonable amount, normally 50%of value of cargo and ship. Lloyds open form.
The rescue costed somewhere in the region of 3 Million $.
What if the owner contracts for salvage, but a third party salvages it first?
Usually, an agreement is made based on what is known as the Lloyds open form which is not a contract of service but an award on success (no win no fee) the owner can reject the offers of help from other salvors (third parties) if an agreement has already been made. Once an agreement has been made the ability to claim "prize" salvage does not exist or "finders keepers". Although a second contract can be forced on an owner by the coast guard if they deem it to be a pollution risk.
Hope this is clear!
@@clegsmate6094 So if a contract has been completed for the salvage, and a third party (unaware of the contract) does the salvage, does the third party lose out?
@@helibob2367 Yes but no salvor worth his salt would attempt a salvage prior a LOF or equivalent agreement with the owners, the risk of insurance etc could be crippling. Many commercial ships carry copies these in their safes just in case they get lucky!
@@clegsmate6094 Very interesting, thank you very much.
@@helibob2367 Glad to be of service, I am currently in international waters off Africa asking the crew if any have ever been involved in a salvage. Unfortunately, none have only tow backs it's customary for the crew to get a % of the salvage reward and a bottle of Scotch for a tow back a gentlemans agreement :-).
Lifeboats don’t normally have hydrostatic releases therefore the lifeboat is not designed to pop up after the ship sinks, only the liferafts, EPIRB etc have hydrostatic releases
You have a lot to learn.
@@eSysmanSuperYachts Mate, I really enjoy your videos but you need to look this up, I'm fully qualified deck officer I'm pretty sure I know this stuff.
@@8atlantic8 commercial?
@@eSysmanSuperYachts Yes, for now at least.
If someone tows you back to port, can they claim salvage?
Not if you as the master never abandoned ship, or hired them to tow you.
Saving the ship helps with future insurance prices. Also gets a good look at why cargo shifted. If it was wood crates deforming causing a domino weight shift effect maybe a committee will delve into regulations for wood crates. Japan used to use teak crate frames. These days world wide it's probably the cheapest lightest wood shippers use.
A large engine under deck (loaded on board as cargo) broke loose. Nothing to do with crates.
@@nicolasdenis7094 Thanks. I know the first few days of sailing the chains have to be tightened during checks a lot more than later.
@@nightwaves3203 yeah, this is typically done every day, A/B’s will do a tour of the deck and hold and tighten slack lashings. They get slack mostly from the dunnage wood between the tank top and unit becoming compressed. Wire rope lashings are even worse, first days you need to tighten them all multiple times a day. We don’t know yet what happened here, could well be that the lashing arrangement was not sufficient. This will need to be in investigated properly by the surveyors on the case.
@@nicolasdenis7094 Looking at those seas we know the biggest contributor :) Not the type of seas to get the first slackening of securing lines. The inertia of a heavy weight if it's rocking a little loose has a lot more energy when meeting resistance on a line trying to keep it taut. Try to get major tonnage secured after it's broken loose with rough seas? Yah right, call superman and marine rescue :)
@@nightwaves3203 yeah, sea state is quite rough. But on the other hand lashing arrangements need to be applied correctly (sufficiently), but this should become clear upon further investigation.
How do I find abandoned vessels?
What if somebody else got the green vessel? Does it count as an abandoned vessel?
Photos, what photos!!
Welcome 🙏 To My Conservatory 💚🙏❤️👍
Great video, question: do the salvage company get the yachts and cargo onboard aswell even though the yachts are owned by someone else ? Thanks Jeff
Those yachts are legally cargo at that moment.
The salvors fee is calculated upon the total value of ship, bunkers and cargo on board.
At first glance I could swear I read the name of SMIT PANTHER as SHIT PANTHER due to pixelation hahahaha
If there were 4 crew left aboard I understand how the salvage tug got a line aboard but if the boat was abandoned how does a tug secure a tow line? If someone had to climb a grappling line their life is wholly at risk.
funny law imagine ppl going around when there's a storm at sea looking for abondon ships x'D
That is what those salavage tug boat companies actually do. THey have tugboats stand by in key location to go out there and be the first to tie up to a abandoned/in need ship and gain the contract that way.
Reward is clear. But ownership? Does ownership disappear after abandonment?
No, but maritime law says the owner must pay for having its ship back.
Wouldn’t be a bad ship to salvage.
** QUESTION ** (unrelated) If a yacht owner chooses to smoke cannabis on his yacht are the Captain or crew likely to grass him up? (excuse the pun).
In the event of a successful salvage, is the value of the vessel and her cargo assessed by a 3rd party?
Why is your yacht registered in Bloody Bay?
'Cause it's cool.
If you're entitled to the value of the ship, or the ship itself, could that be one of the reasons and origins for the captain going down with the ship? This way, it is never actually abandoned and can't just be snatched away from the owner once no one is on board?
It sounds extreme to award the total value of the ship & cargo salvaged to the salvager. But I guess it's meant to incentivise a very risky job that could without action lead to an environmental disaster and in any case be a total loss to the operator or insurer.
I wonder if the insurer would then pay for the salvage or would it be on the owner/operator?
A General average will be declared and the costs will be split between cargo and vessel owners.