Thanks for the history lesson! I was raised in Herbert Armstrong’s WWCG. I was jaded from that experience, left as a young teenager. I was born again years later and fell in love with the Good News. Part of the gospel that excited me was the fact (as a young Christian, post WWCG!) the veil was torn, Christ also fulfilled the law and the prophets!! I have a brother in Christ who is dispensational. I have dove into eschatology in the last year and found myself squarely in the amillenial camp. This helps me understand why dispensational teachings bother me so much as H. Armstrong was quite tied with this whole movement. My friend and I do Not agree on eschatology, but we do agree on Jesus Christ. The Church does need unity, but we also need, good teaching, sound doctrine.
These lectures (this and one by Russel Moore) demonstrate the genuineness of the dangers of which Jesus warned - multiple false messiahs proceeding His future return but ironically occuring at a point in time described "when the Son of Man might not find faith on earth". This, all these abberant theologies should be expected. The Bible asserts that some spiritual truths had been hidden by God until after His passion and arrest of Saul, the (sole) apostle to the Gentiles OF THE WORLD, NOT just to Jews in Israel.
Hello, the Lord showed the rotten roots of Darbyism as well. However, I want to encourage you in the Lord to test amillenialism also according to the word of God. Don't be tempted into thinking the opposite of one false doctrine equals truth.
Having recently been freed from dispensational premillennialism this is what I need to hear. Shortly after Jesus saved me in 1990, I was hungry for information. In Yuma, Az at a bookstore I came across “The Late Great Planet Earth” written by Hal Lindsey. Unfortunately that became my eschatology for the next 30 years. Over the past 8 to 10 months the Lord has opened my eyes to this unscriptural view of the end times that permeates most of Evangelical America. He’s brought some excellent teachers to my attention. Gary Demar, Jim Jordan, Hank Hannagraffe and others. I just recently discovered Bruce Gore, a superb teacher of World history and Biblical history. This is great, I’m 65 years old and look forward to learning as much as I can and unlearning a whole lot. I just never thought that there is a different interpretation of Scripture. This is really refreshing. I’m reinvigorated and excited to read Gods Word, trying to understand it as the author intended and the original audience understood it. Thank you Professor Gore for your dedication to your calling ! 😁
It’s sad that you started with the truth but you’ve drifted away from it over time. I have experienced Christians such as Doug Hamp, Kent Hovind, and Rob Skiba who loved Chuck Missler’s teachings, but then changed horses by going from pre-trib to post-trib.
John Darby was trained by the Jesuits and so was Charles Tate.John teached a false 7 year tribulation a secret rapture which is no where in the bible.Jesus says in John 6:39,40,44,54, John 11:24 says raise him up at the last day.Job 14:12-14.Darby,Charles Tate were Free Masons who the Jesuits controls all secret societies.
this was a very enlightening history lesson. it answered my questions about Darby. It's no wonder why there is so much confusion in religion to this day. I count myself blessed to be a bible believer. I try to pray and search out the truth on my own and I have a few friends who do the same. It's very hard these days to know what's true. thank you for your work
Tammy Arndt I'm the same way. I said God, even though I have been taught one thing, I want to know what the Lord is truly saying because as a preacher of the gospel I dont want to lead His people into lies, but truth. It's sad. My heart hurts. I want Gods heart
Dispensationalism was definitely taught in the early Church. If you care to know the truth go here biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/ and see for yourself
Absolutely true! Hence it is always a struggle for the truth to permeate the hearts of men! But ultimately the truth shall prevail over devil lies in Jesus Christ Name
@@dafflad1 The rapture is a biblical concept in I Thessalonnians 4:16-17. Dispensationalism is not, but neither is so-called "Covenant Theology" or the evils of Calvinism.
@@richardlee2120 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. The wrath was already coming at the time when the book was written. 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. The wrath of God was coming upon them “at last”. This means it’s “around the corner”. It is however not directed towards the whole world but just the Jews who oppose the gospel from being taught to the Gentiles. Hence it could not have been directed to the whole world which makes up almost the whole world. 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. For you know quite well that we are destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know. Paul tells the listeners to his letter who was addressed to that they were destined for this. Not our generation but theirs. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 The Day of the Lord Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. This tells us that the Thessalonians had at that time already know when the “thief in the night” was coming. There was no need for Paul to tell them when he was coming. In others words, the whole letter tells us the events mentioned in the whole book was about to take place at that time. So I have a question. How can the following verses be interpreted to be events that have yet to happen until today? 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Christ is your hope of glory. Not some rapture in the future.
@@richardlee2120 Let me say this. Did you know whenever Paul mentions “in the air” he does not mean in mid-air but that “the spiritual realm”? Ephesians 2:2 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. The air was the realm of Satan. It was where you were spiritually. So when Paul says: 1 Thessalonians 4:17 17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. It means you are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into his kingdom of marvelous light. You were transformed from Sinai to Zion. You were transformed from “Worshipping in Jerusalem” to “worshipping in the spirit”. You no longer look toward the “old Jerusalem and it’s temple” for worship. You now look into yourself as the new temple and the New Jerusalem. You are transformed in the spiritual realm from Adam to Christ. You are moved from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness. You are transformed from Hagar to Sarah. You are transformed from the bride of the Law to the bride of Christ. Paul tells us when that was going to happen. 2 Corinthians 3:15-18 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever- increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. This transformation happened when the veil is taken away. It happen when we see the Spirit. What is this veil that is taken away? It is the Law of Moses. You know when that happened? AD70. When the temple was destroyed. It was when the veil is fully lifted away. That was when you were transformed with a blink of an eye. That’s when your engagement to Jesus became a wedding. You are as he is in heaven. Romans 16:20 20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you. The key word to this promise is “soon”. Not 1000 years. Not 2000 years. But soon. Paul tells us that we will meet Jesus in the air in 1st Thessalonians 4. A quick overview of 1st Thessalonians. 1 Thessalonians 1:10 and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath. The wrath was already coming at the time when the book was written. 1 Thessalonians 2:14-16 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last. The wrath of God was coming upon them “at last”. This means it’s “around the corner”. It is however not directed towards the whole world but just the Jews who oppose the gospel from being taught to the Gentiles. Hence it could not have been directed to the whole world which makes up almost the whole world. 1 Thessalonians 3:3-4 so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. For you know quite well that we are destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know. Paul tells the listeners to his letter who was addressed to that they were destined for this. Not our generation but theirs. 1 Thessalonians 5:1-4 The Day of the Lord Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape. But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief. This tells us that the Thessalonians had at that time already know when the “thief in the night” was coming. There was no need for Paul to tell them when he was coming. In others words, the whole letter tells us the events mentioned in the whole book was about to take place at that time. So I have a question. How can the following verses be interpreted to be events that have yet to happen until today? 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Jesus tells that in Luke that Satan fell like lightning. Luke 10:18 18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. Do you know where your position is at this moment? Ephesians 1:20 20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms, Seated in the heavenly realms. So you see you already have met him in the air. The word “in the air” means the heavenly realms. In fact it was where Satan dwelled. Ephesians 2:2 2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient. So you see the prince of the air got kicked out when you met Jesus in the air and when you took your seat in the heavenly realms. That happened in AD70. That’s why Paul said in Romans 16 at the time he was writing it: He will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet. Since it has happened in AD70, He has crushed Satan under your feet. That’s who you are now. Seated with him. Forever.
I have been wondering where this end time stuff got started. Thank you for giving a clear and true explanation. I love Jesus and have walked with Him 60 years. This fits what the Worldview that I have today. Your explanation on Revelation is the best. I will keep the truth close like a costly pearl necklace, and not let it go. Thanks again.
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ? (Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30) The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations? 1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants? 2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ? 3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds? 4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh? 5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers? 6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"? 7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost? 8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.) 9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9) 10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church. Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology. Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.” Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107. Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.” Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323. John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated… "...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.” John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25 ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.) What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16? Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth? Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups? Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13? Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
I recently did a video "Who is the Antichrist and why does it matter", and in the description I have a playlist with a Chris Pinto video you may find interesting.
(From the Bible) The end. The Beast Lawlessness and iniquity were already at work when Revelation in the Bible was written. People had already started another movement and were preaching another Jesus, 2 Cor 11, 2 Thes 2:7. And it was for this reason Revelation was penned in riddles and a conundrum to understand. For the abandonment of the truth had already begun and the mysteries of heaven were hidden from those of this world. And is now revealed in this last day, Mt 13:11, Rv 14:6. What Revelation tells is a perplexing story. And to paraphrase what it forewarns and says: is there are two beasts that come to power. The way the story unfolds in Revelation is the first beast will suffer a head wound and appears dead when a second beast emerges on the scene. The second beast acquires all the first beast's power and helps heal the first beast's head wound, whereby he restores the first beast. At which point, the second beast will make an image of the first beast causing it to say great things. And he will kill everyone who refuses to worship him or the image he has created. Now if that isn't enough the second beast has a number for his name, which is 666. To understand what Revelation is saying; You will have to realize when Jesus came he cast evil spirits out of many people. This enabled him to heal their ailments. One example of spirit possession was when, Jesus was in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, the spirit in this man cried out with a loud voice, saying, Leave us alone; what do we have to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? have you come to destroy us? I know you are the Holy One of God. At which point Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and cast the evil spirit out of him. Lk 4: 33-35. That verse in Scripture reveals the devil is an evil spirit that inhabits people and he knows Jesus is the Christ. In fact, later that day, when the sun was setting, many sick people were brought unto Christ; and Jesus laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. And those who were possessed by devils came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ, Lk 4: 40-41, Mt 8:16. So you see, evil spirits in people will confess Christ is the Son of God but obviously don’t follow his teachings. There are many other Scriptures that reveal this evil spirit's existence. And whether people believe in this presentation of the Bible or not, the beast is an evil spirit and the devil mentioned in Revelation! Then if you can understand the beast is an evil spirit, you will be able to interpret Revelation thirteen and Revelation seventeen. Whereas a beast would rise and it would have seven heads but these heads are actually mountains, Rv 17:9. As we know, on this day, there are seven continents that make up this world. And if you could visualize a continent rising out of the sea, you would know it is a huge mountain. Hence the seven heads on this beast are the seven continents because it was the devil's goal to deceive the entire world, Rv 12:9! Now the first player or, as Revelation explained, the "first beast" was the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire ruled the world with an iron hand. They didn't accept Christ's teachings of evil spirits possessing them and they were in throes of Satan. They followed their own philosophies and once Christ was crucified; they persecuted the true Christians. Only God knows the atrocities they put them through. Whereby, it was given unto him (the evil spirit in them) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations Rv 13:7. The world. Then Revelation explains the first beast would suffer a head wound and appear dead yet he would survive. So, one continent or that being one head on the beast was diffused. And of course, that was the Roman Empire (Europe). The Roman Empire was annihilated but after some years the continent was reestablished, however, they didn’t regain the power, she once enjoyed, Rv 13:3. This was because a second beast was rising. He appeared to have two horns like a lamb and spoke as a dragon, Rv 13:11. Having two horns like a lamb signifies two powers, and a lamb symbolizes Jesus. Approximately 666 AD history reveals during the Roman Empire’s demise there arose two apostate theologies fitting the description of a lamb. Both are divided into many issues but worship the same god in fact three of them. At first, they destroyed Israel and she was not a nation for nearly two thousand years Mth 24: 16-20. The teachings Christ brought were ignored and the doctrine of peace by force was adopted. Which eventually led to WWI and WWII. They made statues of those whom they killed even praying to them. They caused a movement that proclaimed to the world they were capable to lead all to Christ. These men saw how the true apostles called upon God's Spirit, and they assumed they could do the same thing. But because they were not established by the God of heaven, they caused those who followed them to receive an evil spirit whom they called the Holy Spirit. Even, 2 Corinthians 11:4 explains they preach another Jesus and take into them another spirit. This is in fact the abomination that brought ruin upon the world. Revelation explains this by saying; The second beast would cause the world to worship the first beast ( an evil spirit). Whereby people accepted another spirit in place of him who is Holy. Jn 2:18, 3Tim 3:17. Thus causing the world to worship the beast (an evil spirit) as God. Paul explained in Acts twenty, verse thirty, and thirty-one how these imposters were sitting with him. He warned how they would become apostate theologians. And explained how they would not spare the true church. But in fact, they would speak headstrong theology and would be against what Christ taught. They were obviously covetous and their goal was to make merchandise out of people and get followers to follow them. So, I hope you see, because it is one thing to sin which all of us are guilty of, but another thing to be governed by evil's depths. One example of a person who is governed by the depths of depravity is those who are serial killers. And if you knew a religious leader was conveying lies to his flock, causing them to die and end up in hell wouldn't you consider this leader a serial killer? And by all of this, I hope you are able to comprehend the beast is an evil spirit that influences people and if you are able to realize the first beast was an evil spirit that influenced the Roman Empire. The second beast was another population also influenced by this spirit. They would create an image of the first beast. Whereby the image would be likeness which would be another country with the same ambitions as the Empire. Sure there were wars that brought in the beginning of sorrows. WWI and WWII. But when the abomination of desolation is made known we find trouble not seen before. At which point we find a man will rise in power. And he will claim he is capable of saving the world. This is the man spoken of in Thessalonians. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not, Mt 24:26. “Those who see "him" will gaze at him, And consider him, saying: 'Is this the one who made the earth tremble, Isa 14:16.
@@bbell873is there Bible references that would show that the recipients of the book would have understood the seven heads to mean seven continents? I understand that not everyone will understand, because their comprehension is purposely inhibited, but were the seven continents a reality at the time?
After several years of secular existence, I was attracted to Charles Taze Russell's Bible Students Association, because of some of their teachings. But, I was always skeptical of their 1874/1914 eschatology. I started challenging it, and the movement had a vertical split in India, with one group sticking to 1874/1914 and the other becoming plain vanilla futurists. Though I was the one who initiated the debate, I didn't become part of either the groups. I chose to study the Bible. I studied the Bible, several times, noting down all the dates, coming of the Lord, prophecies ... and so on. And, I became a Preterist, even when I didn't know of such a word. I have shared your videos on Facebook and I think quite a few people appreciate them. Regards, Tomsan
@@lauroandrea3241 Biblical eschatology is within the Bible and it remains the same. People come up with their own theories, mostly because they want those who they hate to be portrayed as villains and enemies of God.
He was known as the father of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They called themselves Bible students and Dr. Ruthaford took over for Taz as president of the organization. (The watchtower Bible and tract society)
I was an unofficial member of the Plymouth Brethren in that I owned a 1987 Plymouth Voyager I finally had to scrap in 2020 after driving it for 33 years. Since the Chrysler Corporation withdrew the brand from the marketplace in 2001, my membership had been idling on borrowed time for the past 19 years. However, it was a great vehicle that served my family well and there were tears in my eyes when the tow truck picked it up and drove it away earlier this month.
God bless you brother. I really enjoy your work. Thank you so much for sharing your love of God & your passion for history with the rest of us. You perspectives & insights are such a treat for a person like me. Your work has even helped me to be better equipped to answer questions for people trying to learn the Word & to understand where we are in this time, where history & prophecy meet in the Word of God. Thank you so much & may you be richly blessed in Jesus' name.
Thank you for the information. I appreciate your even handed approach to things you probably disagree with. It’s nice to hear the general facts without the constant judgement.
I had never heard of Darby before stumbling on it on you tube. I as a Bible Believing Christian saved by the Grace and Mercy of GOD Ephesian 2:8-9 through the shed blood of Jesus Christ study the scriptures as stated by Paul in 2 Timothy 2:15 have come to the conclusion that the Word of GOD does acknowledge a dispensation of time and references Jews and Gentiles (others) whom he is speaking to.
Acts 10:34 King James Version 34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. There is neither jew nor Greek, completely fake theology!
I believe there are a couple of inaccuracies in this lecture.1. The version of the MacDonald prophecy I read did not refer to the type of 'rapture' Darby taught. 2. The organization started by Irving and/or his successors died out when their last church officials died, since they didn't think they could appoint successors to their 'apostles.' There are some splinter groups on the European mainland over splits that occurred when they appointed other 'apostles'. I have read of at least two denominations that survive, one in Germany, and one in Scandinavia.
1. Darby and Irving attended the same conference and influenced their views no matter what Macdonald said. Future conferences in Albury sponsored by Henry Drummond(Bank owner and investor for nobility) rounded out Irving's thoughts and through Henry's patronage and together with J. B. Cardale(Henry's lawyer) and half of Irving's congregation started the CAC. Drumond and Cardale were also the first Apostles called to the new order but it wasn't their intention to start a church...they merely wanted to perfect or improve Christianity. 2. Several splinters occurred first in 1863 by the Hamburg congregation that eventually went on to become the presently named New Apostolic Church(10 million members worldwide) and dozens of other splits that occurred in the 20 century with many still existing today.
When he discusses Joseph Smith, he mentions Oliver Rigdon as a scribe during the translation of the Book of Mormon. I believe he meant Oliver Cowdery. Sidney Rigdon came a little later
Oliver Cowdery was a witness. Sidney Rigdon was the Baptist preacher who joined them and was accused of stealing the idea from an author. No worries ... I get the names in history mixed up sometimes myself. Excellent lessons. Thanks.
If you read Darby's writings unprejudiced, you will see what a gift he was to the church of God. His writings continue to be on the top shelf of my library. I have found no other who knew and understand the scriptures more than he. It amazes me so few know of his teaching on ecclesiology, soteriology and on. He has been railed and ridiculed for a long time. William Kelly(bible scholar) said in the forward of the Bible Treasury, a magazine which he was the editor said, read Darby. I could not agree more. This is just my humble opinion.
@@6amsensei945Anyone who allegorizes the fascinating words of the Word of God is to be pitied and prayed for. “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2: 15.
Just after watching part two of your series Brother and thoroughly enjoyed it😃Couldn’t resist your we teaser on J.N. Darby and dispsationalism in part 8.But surely Darby didn’t invent dispensationalism,as there were dispensational models before Darby.For example,Pierre Poiret and John Edwards etc…! Also is it not fair to say that Darby became a believer in the pre tribulation rapture no later then 1826,or 1827 at the latest? And surely Darby couldn’t of gotten his pre tribulationism from Margaret McDonald,Edward Irvine or,some would say,Manuel de Lacunza,as Lacunza was a 45 day partial rapture post tribulationist,and McDonald was also a partial rapture post tribulationist(She believed that,“the trial of the church is from Antichrist”). (Both were really of the two stage pre conflagration post rapture view of Joseph Mede).And Edward Erving also believed in a post rapture second coming of Christ.Erving actually wrote that,”we have blessed be God lived to see the commencement of the seventh vial,during the outpouring of which the Lord will come”.He obviously believed that the church was already in the tribulation period.Please don’t think that I’m trying to be argumentative brother,I’m really not.Darby said himself that he saw his pre tribulationism in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2.And that he saw in Isaiah chapter 32:1 A new economy of God when “a King shall reign in righteousness”. I really am enjoying your videos,even though I am of a different school then yourself. Blessings in Christ brother📖✝️🙂
Joseph Smith died in a shootout at Carthage Jail in Carthage, Illinois. After his death, his widow Emma remained in Nauvoo, Illinois, remarried, and joined the Reorganized LDS church movement.🙂
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Father: Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ. Habukkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith. Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith. 31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. Romans 11: 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree; 18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee. 19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in. 20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear: 21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee. 22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off. 23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again. 24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree? 1 Corinthians 10: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people, 69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David; 70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began: Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
I particularly liked your comment at the end, along the lines of … we follow biblical order yet allow the Holy Spirit to intervene as he wills … we get into access when we try to makes the unusual the normal.
@@Tom-qo4mz to make it short: the insane amount of legalism. Even if a believing baptist comes in, he/she cannot partake in the Lord's supper nor talk or share anything from the pulpit or just simply pray. You have to adhere to the church first, then you can do all of that. Also, if as a man you are not in a suit then you're not allowed to partake in the Lord's supper nor ask for a song or even pray. In addition, women from church are not allowed to enter unless they have a head covering. I'm not making this up, I come from one, so I know what I'm talking about. And to me all that pretty much makes it into a cult, sadly.
@@MRAGFT7 That’s crazy, I didn’t know all that. I recently read the dispute and animosity that John Nelson Darby and Benjamin Wills Newton had in regard to their different Eschatologies. Basically, my understanding is Darby would excommunicate anyone who did not agree with his dispensationalism. I don’t think it was like that right away but it became like that in time. In other words, Darby’s dispensationalism became the factor as to whether or not someone was a brother in Christ to him. A lot of people do not know this venomous and disastrous character of Darby. This is how the open Brethren and Exclusive brethren were formed. Please correct me if I am wrong.
“The kingdom of God is within you” Luke 17:21. So, how many times will we listen to con artists and purveyors of fear before we begin to look for love within?
This one is from KJV+ Luk 17:21 NeitherG3761 shall they say,G2046 LoG2400 here!G5602 or,G2228 loG2400 there!G1563 for,G1063 behold,G2400 theG3588 kingdomG932 of GodG2316 isG2076 withinG1787 you.G5216 G1787 ἐντός entos en-tos' From G1722; inside (adverb or noun): - within. This is from the ISV Luk 17:21 People won't be saying, 'Look! Here it is!' or 'There it is!' because now the kingdom of God is among you." Curtis Hazen is right in his understanding of this verse. Since the Holy Spirit could only abide within one person at a time until the feast of first fruits. (2Ki 2:9) And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me. (2Ki 2:10) And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so. Francis Bacon once said, “Read not to believe and take for granted, nor to contradict and confute, but to weigh and consider.” "For what human affairs can seem important to a man who keeps all eternity before his eyes and knows the vastness of the universe?" - World Map, 1595
@@darmok-hm6jx you are just a liar.. the Koine word "ἐντός" very specifically means within as in "καρδία μου τετάρακται ἐντός μου" in Psalm 108:22 whichg means my heart is wounded WITHIN me or "my belly within me" in Isaiah 16:11 or "my heart within me" in Psalm 38:4. or "you blind pharisees first clean the INSIDE of the cup..." Matt 23:26
@@inTruthbyGrace Are you calling me a liar, while agreeing with Strong's [inside (adverb or noun): - within.]? I think you may have misread what I wrote. When an honest person discovers he is mistaken, he either ceases to be mistaken or cease being honest. -anom duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=%E1%BC%90%CE%BD%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82&atb=v251-4&ia=web Sometimes academically very smart people often aren’t well blessed with common sense and are prone to severe tunnel vision. - Michael Schlueter
JN Darby brought the truth of dispensationalism and rightly dividing the scriptures and the wonderful joy of believers of the snatching of believers from the earth
No, Darby cast a net of enchantment over the evangelical church that has believers (saved and unsaved) caught in its powerful spell to this day. I used to be a victim of it but now I seek to destroy it if I have to do it myself!
@@Over-for-nowBut it’s obvious you’ve been misled about God’s word. Genesis through Acts was prophecy; Post-Acts (7) letters of Paul were according to the mystery (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:25-26). Jesus returns to earth during the mystery, not prophecy! (He wanted to return but the nation of Judah rejected their Messiah so God rejected her at the end of Acts). Colossians (mystery epistle) 3:4: his appearing back on this earth! Colossians 1:13: he receives his inheritance from his Father, the kingdom with HIS name on it - not Israel’s or Judah’s, because he gets to decide which INDIVIDUALs will share it with him - not nations, not churches, but all those humans that had faith during their particular lifetime! The saints of time past and the believers saved according to the mystery will be made of twain the “one new man” of Ephesians 2:15 KJV. How can the one new man be partly in heaven and partly on earth in the kingdom of God’s dear Son? Think about it!
Nelson Barour, himself a Millerite who experenced the disapointment of Oct 22, 1844, renewed the beliefs of the '44 Spiritualizers, teaching that Jesus came back spiritualy (note: note using the word the way we use it today regarding contacting the dead). He was an older man than Russell (born 1853) who was in his late teens when he met Wendell who as an Advent Chrisitian minister. This church was the orgazined after the 1845 Albany conference which orgained most Millerties (Adventists) into two demoniations largely split between conditionalism and Greek Dualism. The Advent Christian church held to the former. The other two main denominations that would come out of Millerism directly was the little Flock who accepted the Sabbath and would become the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the Church of God (Abrahmaic Faith), both of which were not part of the albany conference. The SDAs who were the smallest group would go on to become the largest Adventist group. Russell took about 50 Advent Chrisitans with him when he established his group that would latter become Jehoviah's Witnessess by 1930.
There is only one Dispensation through all history, and it is God's offer of salvation by "grace through faith' in the blood sacrifice, starting with the animals killed to create the clothes to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness and culminating in the sacrifice of God's Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for the sins of all mankind.
Fohpono - That is such a ridiculous statement. Do you think God treated Abraham who was reckoned righteous by faith, to be the same as how Israel were treated by God under Law. God's promise to Abraham was unconditional, whereas the treatment from God towards Israel was totally conditional on their obedience to the Law. It is perfectly clear that, though God does not change and cannot change, that He however treats man according to the 'light' that he has from God. The very fact that Abraham knew God as the Almighty, and Israel knew God as Jehovah, shows that God treats men differently down the ages in different dispensations. In this dispensation which we now live in God has revealed Himself, through the Son, as 'Father'. Completely differently again from Israel.
@@Hebrew42Day I believe in different dispensations, but I do not believe that God has changed. However, God makes Himself known according to the light we have from Him. It is clear that you are still in the dark in regard to the teachings of the apostle Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
As a Jehovah's witness I thank you and appreciate the historical context you highlight . Although at times I wouldn't agree with your theology I do appreciate the work you put into your lectures and engaging manner of presentation.
I just wanted to find a little perspective on Jonathan Edwards’ view of revelation.... hours later I’m still watching your videos. This is so interesting! I grew up in a Christian home, went to a bible college and don’t think I have ever heard the church history layed out in this perspective. Thank you for posting this ❤️😁
What sources do we have to verify this story about how the rapture doctrine came to be (the account of the lay girls trance and Edward Irving latching on the the idea of a pre trib rapture)? I've heard this account is up for debate.
The allegation has certainly been debated hotly, especially by apologists for dispensationalism. A good place to start in looking for the sources in support of the claim can be found at the following site. web.archive.org/web/20110927074110/www.thewordsofeternallife.com/scholars.html
@@GoreBruce I notice some parallels between Trumpism, as it's presenting itself among evangelical Americans and this sort of attachment to this dispensational theology. It's very interesting.
It’s interesting and sad at the same time that Darby and Scofield’s Dispensationalism has become the most popular in the majority of the churches today. When I first became a Christian, I didn’t know there was any other view except for Dispensationalism and even at that time I don’t even know what Dispensationalism was. But the more I studied Theology and history I found out there were other Eschatological views that made way more sense to me. At the time before I knew anything about Eschatology something about Dispensationalism did not sit right with me but I can never narrow it down to something specific. But now that I am aware of Amillennialism, Postmillennialism and Preterism I realized through my own studies and reading a lot of theologians throughout Church History that Dispensationalism is hardly Biblical. It seems to be a philosophical way of thinking outside of the Bible, then forced into the Bible to make it seem Biblical.
I feel bad for people like yourself. I have to wonder are Pastors lying or ignorant? It's a lie that Darby "invented" Dispensational Premillennialism. Sure Christians have gotten dates and ideas wrong like the Left Behind series but we have AMPLE, like a lot of commentaries from the early Christians showing they were dispensational premilleninnialists. I saw some of these texts 30 years ago as I have books from 1995 that show early Christian doctrine. Yet 30 years later I see YT videos where Pastors and teachers continually claim it's a "new' doctrine invented by Darby and Scofield. We can debate whether it's an accurate view in the context of Scripture but I wish Pastors and teachers would stop saying it's a new idea because it's a lie. Proof of Premillennialism in the early Church. Barnabas, AD First Century “Therefore, children, in six days, or in six thousand years, all the prophecies will be fulfilled. Then it says, ‘He rested on the seventh day.’ This signifies at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus, He will destroy the Antichrist, judge the ungodly, and change the sun, moon, and stars. Then He will truly rest during the Millennial reign, which is the seventh day.” Epistle of Barnabas 15:7-9 Commodianus, AD 240 “We will be immortal when the six thousand years are completed.” Against the Gods of the Heathens 35 “Resurrection of the body will be when six thousand years are completed, and after the one thousand years, the world will come to an end.” Against the Gods of the Heathens 80 Victorinus, AD 240 “Satan will be bound until the thousand years are finished; that is, after the sixth day.” Commentary on Revelation 20.1-3 Methodius, AD 290 “In the seventh millennium we will be immortal and truly celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.” Ten Virgins 9.1 Even Judaism teaches Premillennialism. www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/607585/jewish/Significance-of-the-year-6000.htm "The Talmud tells us that this world, as we know it, will last for six thousand years, with the seventh millennium ushering in the cosmic Shabbat, the Messianic Era. Six days a week we work, and on the Shabbat we rest and enjoy the fruits of our labor; the same is true with millenniums. However, it is certainly possible for Moshiach to come earlier. And we believe, hope, and pray each day that this is the day when Moshiach will come... So yes, we don't know exactly when Moshiach will come, but we do know that it will be before the year 6000.” We also have a lot of writings showing the early Christians were "dispensationalist's” First, we need to understand the lineage of disciples Apostle John taught Polycarp. Polycarp taught Irenaeus, and it is said that Irenaeus even met John a few times. Irenaeus taught Hippolytus. Irenaeus (about 180 AD) who wrote his 5 volume works called “Against Heresies” who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John. “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew, the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn is the Antichrist. Against Heresies 5.25 Ephrem 306-373 AD in his writings called "The End Times" Before the time of abomination (which Irenaeus says is in the middle of the 7 years; after 3 years and 6 months). of his desolation having been made legal, he takes the empire, and, just as it is said in the Psalm: “They have been made for the undertaking for the sons of Lot” Psalm 83:8 The Moabites and the Ammonites shall meet him first as their king. Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem, who coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations, since he is carnal, filthy, and mixed with worthless spirit and flesh…Because the very wicked serpent shall direct every worship to himself. Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. The Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again he practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days. Hippolytus (170-235 AD) wrote a 67 section/ chapter writing called "The Antichrist - a Treatise on Christ and Antichrist" "Now we must consider the question at hand, letting the previous introduction suffice. We must find out what the Holy Scriptures teach about: the occasion and time of the coming of Antichrist what tribe he comes from what his name is (from the number 666 in Scripture) how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth his tribulation and persecution against the saints how he glorifies himself as God. What his end shall be the Lord’s sudden appearing revealed from heaven the conflagration of the whole world the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints when they reign together with Christ the punishment of the wicked by fire." Section 5-Prophecy introduction. continued in his writing… "Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” Daniel 9:27 By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world, of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations." ...For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3 That is the half of the week that Daniel spoke about. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will.” Revelation 11:4-6 And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony, what does the prophet say? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” Revelation 11:7 because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horns, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” Daniel 7:8 This is like 1 section of Hippolytus's 67 sections in this commentary. Early Church Father's wrote entire books on this topic and so it's frustrating and sad to see the utter disgust and dismissal of a very foundational doctrine of the Disciples of the Apostles. For whatever reason many Christians continue to claim Darby invented this doctrine. Sure he had ideas about it but as you can clearly see the doctrine wasn't his idea. What people on every side of this topic Post, Pre, A mill all agree on is that however you understand Eschatology greatly impacts your understanding of the rest of Scripture since 1/3 of Scripture is dedicated to the topic, and 150+ chapters mention the 2nd Coming as a specific event. That might be a problem for the remaining 2/3 of Scripture. It's so very sad that you never learned that although the modern-day understanding about events and timing might have been wrong that it's based on many commentaries written by early Christian church fathers on the topic. Let me leave you with a simple thought. Throughout biblical history, the enemy has tried to destroy the Jewish people, the enemy used people to massacre babies, yet today many Christians don't see that same effort with Israel and the Jewish people. That somehow things changed. Even though Romans 11 debunks the idea of Replacement theology. On OCT 7 we saw evil massacre babies and women. They were targeted and singled out. Why? Because babies grow up to have babies and women bear children. The attack was one of genocide. The Enemy knows his goal has never changed wipe out the Jewish people and Israel and GOD is no longer GOD. The LORD has promised to protect His people. If Israel is destroyed GOD is not GOD. There are unfulfilled promises yet to be completed Ezekiel 37:21-23, Jeremiah 24:3-8, Daniel 9:24, Romans 11:27, etc. Don't let blindness keep you from seeing the truth. Take care.
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Romans 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin. Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
From the wikipedia page on Margaret MacDonald. Appreciate any insights you have to offer on this: "However, scholars think there are major obstacles that render these accusations untenable. It is clear that Darby regarded the 1830 charismatic manifestations as demonic and not of God.[4] Darby would not have borrowed an idea from a source that he clearly thought was demonic.[9] Also Darby had already written out his pretribulation rapture views in January 1827, 3 years prior to the 1830 events and any MacDonald utterance.[10] When MacDonald's utterance is read closely, her statements appear to present a posttribulationist scenario ("being the fiery trial which is to try us" and "for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus").[11][12] Confusion on this point was enhanced because while MacDonald's vision as first published in 1840 describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture, a version published in 1861 lacked two important passages that appear to present a post-tribulation view: "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[8] For these and other reasons, dispensational scholars consider MacPherson's alleged connection to dispensationalism as untenable.[13]"
Thanks for the feedback. As I mention in the presentation, the degree to which J.N. Darby relied on MacDonald's vision has been a matter of controversy. The contributor to the Wiki article certainly represents a competent apologist for dispensational eschatology. To me, the weightier question is not the degree to which Darby relied on Margaret MacDonald, but the degree to which he relied on the Bible for his views. That, of course, remains highly doubtful.
Might I ask, was this man involved in the creation of Dispensationalism? Manuel De Lacunza, S.J. (July 19, 1731 - c. June 18, 1801) was a Jesuit priest who used the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra in his main work on the interpretation of the prophecies of the Bible, which was entitled The Coming of the Messiah in Majesty and Glory.
There were little hints of certain details of a dispensational outlook that date clear back to the second and third centuries. These were mostly attempts to retain some distinct redemptive status for ethnic Israel in spite of New Testament teaching on the point. Darby was the first to develop a comprehensive scheme predicated on the that presupposition.
Hey Bruce, this lecture is fascinating. I did not even know some of the other religious cults came out of this regarding the backgrounds of how they came into the equation itself. Never heard some of those names either. Wow. Another nice lecture itself. Good work Bruce.
The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away. Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea (Acts 8:39) and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2-4). Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven. Definition: Harpazo v. 1. to seize, carry off by force 2. to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly 3. to snatch out or away ~ from Thayer’s (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon) In the Greek New Testament, the word harpazo is found a total of 17 times in 13 different verses. Each time harpazo is used this verb refers to a quick or sudden often violently physical “snatching away” or “catching away” of a person, a thing, or an idea. More important is the fact that in 5 of these 17 times harpazo is used in the New Testament harpazo ALWAYS refers to the literal physical (bodily) removal of a faithfully righteous human being from one place to another, or from one sphere of existence to another. The 5 times harpazo is used involving faithfully righteous people are when: 1. Philip is harpazo’d from the presence of the Ethiopian eunuch to a different location miles away (see Acts 8:39, KJV) 2. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven (see 2 Corinthians 12:2, KJV) 3. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven; second reference (see 2 Corinthians 12:4, KJV) 4. Bride of Christ is harpazo’d from the Earth to the clouds to meet Her Groom (Christ Jesus) in the air (see 1 Thessalonians 4:17, KJV); the understanding here is that the Bride will be taken to Heaven to be with Her Groom 5. Christ Jesus is harpazo’d from Bethany near the Mount of Olives to His Throne in Heaven (see Revelation 12:5; cf. Luke 24:50-51; Acts 1:9; KJV) Each one of the above five supernaturally powerful acts of the Holy Spirit by which literal bodily removals of humans either from one place to another on Earth or from off of this Earth to Heaven proves that the Rapture is a biblically sound doctrine. In fact, the English words Rapture and Raptured actually are derived from the Latin verb rapio (catch up or take away), and rapio is used in the Latin Vulgate Bible (also referred to as The Vulgate). The point here is that many of America’s English words, like Rapture and Raptured, and etc., are derived from words found in the Latin Vulgate Bible-the most commonly used translation of the Holy Bible. St Jerome’s late 4th-century A.D. revised Latin translation of the old Latin Biblical Texts became The Vulgate, and The Vulgate was used over 1,000 years before the Protestant Reformation started! In essence, no other Holy Bible translation has been used longer than the Latin Vulgate Bible, and that includes the highly promoted Authorized King James Version (KJV)!
The Harpazo / Rapture is very Real and very True its just that the Pre Trib Rapture is a Fat Lie that goes against all that Jesus and Paul Taught the Church! No Man of God in Scripture Taught that Fat Pre Trib LIE!
@@RaptureofSaints Ok so you're saying a Blood bought Church is going to go through God's Wrath when he became flesh to shed his blood for those that would be bought by his blood so that they would not experience Eternal Wrath in hell . Makes a lot a sense ... So the "yo-yo" rapture must be the real deal when Christ comes at the end of the Tribulation to catch us up in the clouds just to land back on the ground soon after . Yeah ok.... It's called Jacobs trouble for a reason . Jacobs secondary name is Israel , you can translate it to 'Israels trouble. God's plan for The Church is different from the Jews and gentiles . God is a divider not a uniter . Read you're Bible and divide the word correctly comparing scripture with scripture and you will get correct doctrine . The Bible is it's best interpreter and does not need help from anyone to interpret . I'm sorry you are hopeless when it comes to this subject I pray that God would show you that this post trib doctrine is indeed false . Not your fault entirely but whoever are your mentors, and spiritual leaders need to reconsider how they study the Bible . God bless, shalom .
@@giannidesir3643 Have you ever Studied the Greek Word that Paul used in 1 Thessalonians 5:9? If you have you would KNOW that Paul did NOT say the Greek Word THUMOS NOR Thlipsis but he actually chose to use the Greek Word "ORGE" a Specific Greek Word that Jesus also chose to use in extremely Specific places in Revelation! Jesus DECLARED in Revelation that the "ORGE" does NOT ever begin UNTIL sometime (AFTER) the Events are Seen in the Sun and moon and Stars which we all KNOW are only ever seen After the Tribulation has ended! Jesus made it Clear that the Day of "ORGE" does NOT begin UNTIL all of the Armies are Gathered at Armageddon! Jesus made it 100% Clear that He is PRESENT so as to Trample the Wine Press of His "ORGE" The TRUTH is that No believer of any Kind is appointed to "ORGE" because we will all Partake in the FIRST RESURRECTION and we will be Raptured to Meet Him on that day when Satan is Bound and Jesus destroys that Man of Sin and Begins to Trample the Wine Press of His "ORGE" against ALL that are Gathered against Jesus! None of them will be able to stand on that day BUT we will be WITH Jesus in IMMORTAL Bodies! Thats the TRUTH about the "ORGE" The Pre Tribbers are the Ones saying that Tribulation saints ARE appointed to Wrath, thats a LIE! No BELIEVER is appointed to "ORGE" as we will all Partake in the FIRST RESURRECTION before the "ORGE" begins! The 7 Bowls of THUMOS are NOT the "ORGE"! It is YOU that is WRONG not Jesus and Paul! GO and STUDY Scripture before you Promote a Pre Trib LIE!
@@giannidesir3643 GO and DO a Study for Two Weeks on the Greek Word "ORGE" and then when you know what you are talking about then we can Discuss the Pre Trib LIE that goes against ALL that Jesus and Gabriel and Paul Prophesied!
@@RaptureofSaints those three Greek words are all nouns and other than being masculine and feminine they mean the same thing. You know what The Kingdom Gospel is?
The speaker is skipping some history about how Darby came about the Pre-trib Rapture view. Darby was attending Edward Irving's church prior to 1830 where Edward Irving was preaching a pre-trib rapture theory. So most likely that is where Darby got the idea, and there was a magazine printed in 1830 authored by Darby with that pre-trib rapture idea in it. Prior to the Irving church influence, Darby held to a post-tribulational view. (see Dave McPherson's documented research)
Simeón - Lucas 2:29 Ahora, Señor, despides a tu siervo en paz, Conforme a tu palabra; 30 Porque han visto mis ojos tu salvación, 31 La cual has preparado en presencia de todos los pueblos; 32 Luz para revelación a los gentiles, Y gloria de tu pueblo Israel Ana -Lucas 2:38 Esta, presentándose en la misma hora, daba gracias a Dios, y hablaba del niño a todos los que esperaban la Redención en Jerusalén💜💜💜
Darby started his dispensation theory while reading and studying the Bible when home from his accident in 1827. The McDonald story took place over three years later and historical evidence verifies her vision was anything but historicist post anti -Christ rapture that had been around. There is also no evidence from Darby or his associates being able influenced by this. One of his associates that later opposed Darby still asserted that Darby established his dispensation theory in 1827.
You have explained something to me: why do they always call the pre-trib rapture a "secret rapture"? After all, two men working in a field, two women grinding corn: one is taken and the other remains. How could such an event remain secret for long? The only thing "secret" about it, is that no one but the Father knows when it will be, like the second coming that comes afterm. You answered this question: it is called a secet rapture in order to equivocate it with the imaginary, invisible, _secret_ rapture that had already occured, of Charles Taze Russell, upon which he based Jehovah''s Witnesses. But pre-trib rapture has nothing to do with Russell's invention. It simply believes that the Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4 happens before the time of great tribulation Jesus spoke of, the one that is unlike any time was before, or ever will be again. And instead of attributing Darby's offense at the politicization of Christianity to Irish rebellion against the British, why not because of "my kingdom is not of this world", which Jesus told Pilate?
@@GitFiddler I believe that the Bible teaches a pre-tribulation Rapture. The trumpets are one of the things that cause doubt, but hey are not the same series of trumpets. If prettib is incorrect, I have nothing to lose, because millions have looked for the Rapture in their own time, and died in faith. We ALWAYS have to be ready for accept that we may die for the testimony of the Lord. Jesus said that "in this world", we "SHALL have tribulation", but "be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world". The ones dying in faith includes the believers in Jesus who are killed in Matthew 24:9, a good 11 verses before verse 21, where Jesus described the time of "great tribulation", unlike any time ever was or ever will be, again. That corresponds to the time Jesus told us to pray that we be _"counted worthy"_ not to go through. I am comforted, when fellow believers quote, or I read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, just as verse 18 says. We are "not appointed unto wrath": there's that. The Great Tribulation (Matthew's 24:21) includes the wrath of God, and we are not appointed unto wrath. Elements like the ruthless persecution of believers (ones who believe after the Rapture) are a continuation of the devil pouring out his wrath, since he knows his time is short..The believers being killed in Matthew 24:9, before 24:21, are experiencing the wrath of Satan. That has to include the ones dying in places like Nigeria or North Korea, now, because why would Jesus not mean them? There's little doubt that we will have to go through things like that in the western, "developed" world. So pretrib Rapture doesn't teach that we're without tribulation, only that we don't go through that extreme time, including God's wrath, in 24:21. I believe that the early Christians believed in the 1 Thessalonians 4 Rapture as the "blessed hope", as we do. That was before the takeover by Rome, when the practice of allegorizing virtually everything that was formerly interpreted literally took over. There are allegorical stories and figures in the Bible, but there is also that which is literal. Then, when the Reformation came along, and even more importantly, the availability of translated, printed, affordable Bibles, it meant that people could read the Bible on their own, and allegorical interpretation began to wane, to be toppled by Bible believers, and many suppressed doctrines began their journey back to being noticed, then widely believed. Post-trib was replaced for many by pre-trib, and the amillenialism of the Catholic church was replaced by belief in a literal millennial reign of Jesus on earth. For his work in recovering the doctrine of the Rapture, Darby has been lied about without conscience. Look up the article from the pretrib organization in England, available for free download at Berean Call. For instance, Darby is always said to have gotten pretrib Rapture from a girl prophetess in Scotland, but he did not believe her "prophecy" was from God when he heard her. And she did not teach pretrib Rapture in her prophecy, but a post trib one, after the Tribulation puts us through a trial that determines whether we make it to heaven or not! She said the Tribulation was "sent to try the saints". She didn't teach pretrib Rapture at all, but that didn't mean that the hatchet job filmmakers of "Good Fight ministries" didn't accuse Darby of getting what she didn't even teach, from her, as usual, which is peculiarly cynically lying for people supposedly dedicated to revealing the truth. So I continue to believe in pretrib Rapture, until I am clearly shown otherwise.
I’m just curious, do modern day ‘brethren’ (a.k.a. Gospel hall assemblies) believe that the sermon on the mount is for the ‘dispensation’ of the millennium, and not for believers today? I admire the simplicity of their gatherings, but I am very bothered by dispensationalism.
Modern Brethren differ a bit among themselves, so no simple answer can be given. Frankly, the view that the Gospels, including the Sermon on the Mount, are to be viewed as applicable to the 'kingdom,' and not to Christian believers today is intuitively preposterous to most sober minded believers.
You are aware that Wendell was a minister of the Advent Christian Church? He was not part of the Sabbatarian movement that would become the Seventh-day Adventist Church, organized by May of 1863. FYI, Russell was 17 or 18 when he met Wendell. He had a clothing store at the age of 15 that was run with his father.
I see a Darby bible version on my phone, isn't that something. What I find interesting is that when you address the different tribulation topics, all of a sudden Christian's loose their identity in Christ at least for a moment and here come the fear fangs and then the topic becomes all about whose the true Christian and mud slinging if not both sides ,definitely one side. It's rare to be able to talk about it with a Christian without them falling into the flesh and then therefore becoming extremely defensive.
For me it's not like conflict isn't to be expected, that's human nature after all Now is any event of a dispute that which we call the flesh? Maybe, but I'd say that's probably not the meaning of the flesh according to epistles What I'm getting at is sometimes the sense of concern may be to expose weaknesses in some party, or maybe for another revelation, no complete awareness is ours after all as we're waiting for everything to be revealed And even there are many instructions throughout the bible warranting elders and brothers/sisters to express concern about practices and beliefs (I'm not saying that anybody knows/does the orthodoxy and orthopraxy that God would have us know/do) However when concern is there I don't think the concern has a clear direction always, maybe one or more needs to feel into with prayer and deliberation Nor do I think a person can certainly feel sure of where the problem lies anyway even after prayer and deliberation Like indeed we're to seek and find the kingdom, but that doesn't mean the answers we seek always expose themselves here while in time/bodies blighted with sin nature As for where the concern is coming from, it can be in the person they were initially concerned by, it can be in themselves after considerations (usually hard for most to accept this) , it can be in both parties, or a problem in the locality or a greater problem in the world, something of spiritual realms, etc. What really caused the concern? And what teachings (if any) are there to address that concern? These are questions and considerations an individual can keep in mind to have a healthier and spiritually fruitful relationship with concern, one that should be considered before opening their mouths and being conceited in such means Especially before thinking they have some agenda to rebuke somebody accompanied with the long list of refutations to recite as so many do I call it philosophical conservatism, that is it's better to assume there's always flaws in every thing you experience and think therefore you won't glorify anything unworthy of glory, and whatever you do right it's only a measure compared to God's immeasurability so let God qualify one's actions not man Man's best assumption is that he's wicked and only God can make good happen, it's sourced from Him not ourselves, I'm just a conduit worthy of no credit, and I've been relieved of any debt and so I freely serve and give to emulate my savior whom I will freely follow and cannot know hereafter any separation from Him I remember a long time ago before understanding these precepts how I failed to have even as much integration of these in my walk In my life my mother has become something of a new age proponent, years ago it was especially difficult to see her take such an identity/worldview on.. I was initially very concerned and thought I had every kind of advantage with our lord Jesus to make her know her folly Well it turns out that with even as much as I indeed have fairly-well figured out, and as many fruits of the Spirit I portray, it had no clear regards in her because none of these really can make any change in her I remembered that only Christ can reach her on His timing I also remembered that our nature is flawed even after knowing our savior, let seasons be seasons I've come to believe that individuals are progressively sanctified throughout one's repentance, study and practice, but as much as we're directed towards perfection I don't believe anybody's ever been so anointed (other than Jesus) that they've perfected anything let alone moral living I believe it's the false sense that one has perfected anything in this world that leads one into the flesh and thus satanic lifestyles proliferate It doesn't matter whether it's doctrines, practices or statuses, these thoughts that make them put themselves on high is the biggest problem I guess I am holding to the perspective that it's Progress-Over-Perfection in all matters and of all manners while in this world While eschatologically speaking, it's when we know the fullness of Christ's Zoē (the life of the Spirit) can be where the justification, complete sanctification and glorification can take place I guess what I'm speaking to is the two vessels, one vessel is where inspiration comes from Satan's taproot and even believers pull crap from there and what is being stored up will be repeated before God, this is like how Paul said he still fails daily The other vessel is when we're inSpired by the True and Holy God! And this stores up spiritual profit that multiplies Christ's blessings by many folds We want to at the furthest mitigate the former vessel and maximize our lives towards Christ's vessel, but it's clear to me that being too certain about anything is the slippery slope that makes conflict tend towards violations So therefore we strive! And we recognize our failures, and we never attribute more to our successes than who we know can do all things infinite I hope these words make up for something useful, I'm only trying to help others recognize the pitfalls before falling in where I and many others have collapsed into far too many times For anybody can be too certain of their interpretations and the teachings that twist the intended meaning of scriptures, for we've all mistakenly held to such things - Your Quality Apologist
I would be curious where you got the info that Joseph Smith declared himself been a king. That is something I have never heard before despite many contacts I have since years with Mormons
The best biographical treatment of Joseph Smith remains "No Man Knows My History" (Fawn M. Brodie). www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473472294&sr=8-1&keywords=no+man+knows+my+history
Joel 2:28 And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: 1 Thessalonians Chapter 4 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. I now understand why we who are believers who have become born again will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air its because God has poured out His Spirit on us who have through His Grace repented and believed the gospel of His Son Jesus Christ it can't be more clear we will be taken up into His kingdom by the time the rapture happens according to these verses in the Scriptures.
what about the rebuttals that show that dispensationalism goes as far back as to 1st and 2nd century AD? like the direct disciples of Peter (or another apostle) teaching it? I heard both sides, but this side addressing the rebuttal, I have not yet heard. Are they lying?
The only non-canonical documents dating to the first century are Clements letter to the church in Corinth, and possibly the Didache. Neither addresses eschatological issues. In the second century there were some who subscribed to a pre-millennial return of Christ (e.g., Justin Martyr), but pre-millennialism is not the same as Dispensationism. All Dispensationalists re pre-millennial, but not all pre-millennialists are Dispensationalists.
As far as Joseph Smith goes, the church he started broke up rather spectacularly after he was out of the picture. The offshoots have differing views about what really happened. As I've tried to research this subject, I've found a patchwork story that is more convoluted the more I look into it. I'm of the opinion that Joseph Smith didn't do or say even half of the things written about him and that the LDS church history was rewritten to match the worldview of people like Brigham Young, John Bennett, and Elisa Snow. I'm certainly no apologist for the mormons, but I just want people to keep in mind that their history is very complicated and there are many more people to learn about than just Joseph. I do agree that the mormon church survived in Utah because of Brigham Young's organizational skills, but only despite his harshness and debauchery. If the church had prophets, then Brigham was not one of them.
I am fed up of all the isms that have suddenly appeared. I have known my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ since I was sixteen, I am now sixty eight. Why is it people who invent these ism,s cannot just accept Jesus our saviour and messiah, God our father the hol y ghost, and God's word the bible. If you don't understand God's words pray for understanding, pray for wisdom and God's knowledge it's easy. If you are walking true faithfully and believing God will answer all your prayers and give you the answers he feels are necessary to your question. Then you will know and believe in terms gospel. Try it as it does work.
Scofield abandoned his wife and he remarried within a year of his wife divorcing him. If, as an aspect of his conversion and necessary repentance, he attempted to reconcile and love his wife as he was commanded to do, I might have some more respect for him in spite of his dispensationalism.
@@GoreBruce I stand corrected, it was his family that was deep in the occult, and did seances. Final Day, by Richard D Wiles Pages 52-54, but Darby had close relationships to freemasonry and his closest friends and disciple was a spy for the Crown, Robert Anderson, a high ranking freemason.freemasonry.
@@GoreBruce and Scofield was a con artist out of prison for forgery, he would pretend he was a wealthy cotton plantation owner. He saw flashing dollar signs in Darby's theology and inserted them as notes in a bible, thus tricking evangelicals into believing it was the inspired word of God. Now seminary students everywhere quote the heresies of a con artist.
There are many good sources. One you might check is 'The Puritan Hope,' by Iain H. Murry, and the sources he cites in his bibliography. Thanks for your interest!
The early church fathers believed in "dispensations". Darby may have been the one to promote the teaching, but all through church history, especially the early church fathers, the church believed in "dispensations". Some believed in 4 others 5, but this is not a NEW belief "system" or a new way of studying the scriptures.
I believe he's talking about the convenants God makes with Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and lastly Christ establishing the Apostolic Church. It mirrors the human microcosms of family, tribe, race, nation, and finally all humanity.
It appears that three people replied to your comment, but the replies won't be displayed to let me read them. But belief in dispensationalism and the rapture before Darby is what I'm looking for. I wish you could direct me in my search.
The Bible clearly states that 1) the Father is God, 2) Jesus is God, and 3) the Holy Spirit is God. The word "Trinity" is just an explanation of what we find in scripture. I would recommend praying and considering the following: 1) John 20:28 - Thomas calls Jesus "God" and isn't rebuked, John 1:1 - states that the Word (Jesus) IS God, and Isaiah 43:10 - there is only one God. There are countless other scriptures, but there's no other way it can make sense. 2) 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 - If the Son of God is equally eternal with the Father, as John 1:1-3 makes clear that he is, then so is the Holy Spirit equally eternal with them both, because, according to Romans 8:9-11, the Spirit of Christ is one and the same with the Spirit of God. 3) Matthew 28:19 - notice the singular use of the word "name" instead of using "names".
To suggest that an ecstatic utterance at an Irving event planted the idea of a Rapture in Darby's head and formed the basis of his eschatology is patently false. Oft repeated by those who prefer CliffNote shortcuts to genuine historical and biblical research. Go to the primary sources and read!
This was a great review of those early days of dispensationalism, but if Darby or those around him had know how to rightly divide the scriptures, a lot of this confusion could have been prevented! One huge fact that is not widely taught today even is that nothing written in Acts even applies to us believers today because the chosen nations' prophecy was still "on the table" until it was taken away at Acts 28:28-31 KJV. That means that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 was not a prophecy that even applied to us believers saved by the revelation of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9) - NOT by Old Testament prophecy as the Jews and Greeks in Paul's churches were. The 1 Thess prophecy was of the hoped-for second coming of the Messiah to his church that would have gone into the kingdom he would have brought with him! The Greeks in Paul's churches were not representative of us saved under the mystery today; they were actually fulfilling prophecies such as Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV (provoking ministry to the Jews), and Isaiah 60:3 (the Greeks' inclusion in the olive tree of Israel's blessings and a guaranteed place in their kingdom IF it had materialized which we know it didn't). So, in short, the "pre-tribulational rapture," is a fallacy and even if it wasn't, it would not apply to us!
Long before Darby, Ephraim The Syrian taught pre-trib rapture . Ephraim (306 AD - 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. His book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling: In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote: “We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time. Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!” With a sense of urgency and strong warning, Ephraim writes that the end times are upon this world and could start at any moment. This text very clearly states the saints and elect of God, all born again believers in The Lord Jesus Christ, will be “taken to the Lord” before the Great Tribulation. Ephraim also identifies the Old Testament “Day of The Lord” and the end times Great tribulation as the same event (in line with the teachings of the Beginning and End Rapture Series). Ephraim quotes Amos 5:18 which says: “Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.” The point he makes is that a Christian should know the Day of The Lord is coming. In the first part of the passage Ephraim notes that: “We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated)” And not only that but that true Christians will be taken away before it starts. Here he is describing the first 3 of the first 4 seals of Revelation 6 - wars, famines and plagues. These are the same end times signs Jesus Christ describes in Matthew 24: And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. - Matthew 24:3-8. Jesus describes these events as “the beginning of sorrows.” He also says that when these things come to pass “the end is not yet.” Ephraim’s writing agrees with this interpretation as he says those same events have been “fulfilled (consummated)” in his day, but it was still not the actual Great Tribulation. Ephraim in very strong language warns the reader not to be consumed with the cares of the world because the world in its current form, is coming to an end. As the Second Advent or Coming of The Lord Jesus Christ grows near, believers are to look to Heaven and set their hearts on pleasing God. It is clear that Ephraim distinguishes the Second Coming of Christ from the rapture, placing the Rapture before the Great Tribulation to come. The Early Church Believed In The Rapture Who invented the Rapture idea? | What did Church fathers say about the Rapture? | John Darby did NOT invent the rapture . The ancient writings are clear - the belief in the Rapture has existed since the days of the Apostles. There is no question that there was a belief in the Rapture among the church fathers and they taught it with strong language and scriptural support. In terms of the timing of the Rapture, the early church fathers placed it before the end times Day of The Lord/Great Tribulation. The writings of early saints in the church are not Scripture and should not be treated on the same level of the Bible. These writings also do not “prove” that the pre-Great Tribulation Rapture is correct. Only rightly divided Scripture from the Bible can determine if a specific belief is accurate or in error. But the writings of church fathers can serve as useful commentaries (just as we use Bible commentaries today in our studies) and certainly prove that the Rapture doctrine existed well before John Darby and has been a part of Christian belief since the earliest days of the Apostles.
The rapture is the catching up of the church. Post Tribulation believe in the Rapture. We just call it the Second Coming . Not making Jesus come twice. I find no reason to leave Covenant Theology to accept Darby's guess.
@@samuelwilliams1559 The rapture is for the dead in Christ and the believing saint who will be caught up to meet the Lord in the AIR. They will got to Heaven with the Lord. John ch. 14 v 1-3. The saved will be taken and the lost left behind. The second coming at the end of the tribulation period is when the Lord Jesus comes as Son of Man WITH His glorified saints to the earth. In the Lord's comments the lost are taken and the saved are left behind and enter the earthly Kingdom reign with Christ. The rapture is the Christian church. The second coming is the jewish elect remnant context. The rapture is the Lord coming HIMSELF for His bride. It is for the satisfaction of His love to take His bride to heaven or the Father's house. The second coming is Christ coming to defeat the Beast and Antichrist, judge the nations and deliver the remnant of Israel and set up His earthly kingdom. They are just NOT the same event and accomplish totally different things.
@@smeatonlighthouse4384 Your understanding is based on three points. First that the Bible is to be understood using Dispensationalist teaching from John Darby late 20th century. Second that the church is not Israel. Because the 70 weeks are not over and only 69 have passed then a gap and the seventieth week is future. And third that the rapture is not the Second Coming I don't find any of the Three supported by the Bible. There is no secret rapture. The church is constantly being persecuted. Matthew 24 is correct. Most people do not know the foundation of this new theory from Darby.
@@Hebrew42Day it certainly hasn't been discredited. The Rapture - first digit The Second Coming of Christ - second digit 1. Christ comes FOR His saints to take them back to His Father’s House (John 14:1-6) 1. Christ comes WITH His saints to rule the world. (Revelation 19:11-21; Rev. 20:1-6) 2. A movement from earth to heaven. (John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18) 2. A movement from heaven to earth. (Matt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21) 3. Living believers get “resurrection” bodies. (1 Cor. 15:50-53; 1 Thess. 4:17) 3. No “resurrection” bodies for the living. (Those who have died during the Tribulation will be resurrected - Rev. 20:4, 6.) 4. All living saints go to heaven. (John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18) 4. All living saints remain on earth. (Matt. 25:31-46) 5. The world is unjudged at Christ's coming and continues in sin. (Rev.6:1-18:24). [The entire world of people who survive the Tribulation will be judged at the Second Coming (Matt. 25:31-46).] 5. The world is judged, and righteousness fills the earth! (Isa. 66:15-24; Zech. 14:1-21; Matt. 25:31-46) 6. Delivers Christians from coming wrath. (1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-5:9) 6. Relieves believers who survived wrath. (Matt. 24:21-22; 25:31-40, 46; 2 Thess. 1:5-10; Rev. 6:9-11; Rev. 13:7-10) 7. Imminent event. Could happen any time, because no signs are given. (John 14:1-3; 1 Cor. 15:50-55; 1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:1) 7. Preceded by many signs. (Matt. 24:1-31; Rev. 6:1-18:24) 8. Truth revealed only in the New Testament. (John 14:1-3; 1 Cor. 15:50-55; 1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:1) 8. Predicted in both Old and New Testaments. (Psalm 2:4-9; 110:1-7; Isa. 59:15-21; 60:1-2, 19; 63:1-6; Joel 3:1-3, 9-17; Zech. 14:1-19; Matt. 24:1-25:46; 2 Thess. 1:7-9; Rev. 19:11-21) 9. Affects only the saints. (John 14:1-3; 1 Cor. 15:50-55; 1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:1) 9. Affects both believers and unbelievers. (2 Thess. 1:5-10) 10. Satan is not bound and is very active. (2 Thess. 2:9; Rev. 12:9, 12) 10. Satan is bound for 1000 years. (Rev. 20:1-6) 11. Only the Church benefits. (1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9) 11. Redeemed Israelis and Gentiles are the main beneficiaries. (Matt. 25:1-46) 12. Is followed by a seven-year period known as the Tribulation (Rev. 7:14) and The Day of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:13-13; 1 Thess. 5:1-9; Rev. 6:1-18:24) 12. Is followed by Christ’s 1000-year reign (the Millennium). (Rev. 19:11-20:6) 13. No angels are said to do any collecting or sorting. (An archangel speaks or shouts, but that is the only mention of an angel 1 Thess. 4:16.) 13. Angels are dispatched to collect the righteous and sort out the wicked. (Matt. 13:40-43, 49-50; Rev. 19:14, 19)
How can anybody think that Paul was talking about a rapture out of trouble? Jesus said "Take up your cross and follow Me". Saul/Paul was a self appointed apostle, not hand chosen.
The Time of Trouble is not just any Trouble, it is God's Wrath being poured out on them that dwell on the earth. God has promised to those who trust in His Son that they will not suffer under the Wrath of God at any time. So, you're just plain wrong, and stupidly so. You need to read the Bible before you shoot your filthy ignorant mouth off and blaspheme the saints in heaven Revelation 4:4 4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold. Who are these guys in the white robes? Whence came they? I wonder what sort of drivel you can come up with.
@@jamesedwards.1069 Get lost with your John Darby religion! Saul/Paul was a murderer. There is no "rapture" out of suffering. Tell your garbage to the apostles who were tortured and murdered and all the saints who were persecuted for their faith. You blaspheme the Holy Spirit and pervert the bible.
@@elaine1034 Thanks for proving my point about you guys by blaspheming Paul the Apostle. You might as well finish by blaspheming all the saints in heaven.
While researching biblical support for the pre-tribulation rapture, it dawned on me that the root nature of the doctrine is concerned only with self-preservation. It demonstrates a complete lack of interest or care in the fate of those "Left Behind". Therefore on that basis alone, it could not be of God, as His great plan would never involve or promote selfishness.
The Rapture of the Church starts the period of Jacob's Trouble and end's the church age or the Age of Grace. Nothing else makes any sense, so take your opinion and stick it where the sun don't shine.
I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture and I'm quite concerned with those who will be left behind. Because some people abuse a truth or use it selfishly doesn't make it any less true. It appears that you're judging a doctrine with an ad hominem approach, which isn't a good approach. There are valid arguments to be raised concerning the pre-trib rapture, but yours doesn't strike me as one of them.
Where from scripture can you back up that there are two second comings? Revelations states the Saints will meet Him in the sky. You believe that will happen twice? Or that Christ will return _before_ the tribulations? before the man of sin is revealed?
Imperial Rome's attitude toward religion was Plato's "noble lie". The emperors certainly didn't believe in the reality of Rome's gods, or any other, but they believed it is necessary to get the whole populace of ruled countries on the same page, so they could be easily ruled. People are somewhat shaped by the times they live in. When Rome, interested in power, not salvation, looked at the world they ruled, it must have seemed to them that all the people who were moving to these un-Roman, new religions were more alike than they were different. Some of them surely decided that the new religions were brothers under the skin, more alike than different, but we know that faith in Jesus has nothing to do with the mystery religions or with gnosticism, that these beliefs have no fellowship with Christ. Likewise, people like Darby and Scofield had _nothing_ to do with Miller, Ellen White, Charles Taze Russell, or Joseph Smith, etc, except in the eyes of those who stand to lose when people lose interest in the external, ritualized power structure the objectors are most comfortable with. The Holy Spirit is in favor of orderliness (and self-control), but not just any kind of order or control. Jesus expressed hatred of Nicolaitanism, twice, in Revelation 2 & 3. A hierarchical system brings a kind of order, but that fact didn't keep Jesus (and by implication, the Holy Spirit) from being disgusted by it, and that would be for a reason, maybe for many reasons. But apparently the kind of order Nicolaitan hierarchy produced was not good; it was not anything Jesus wanted for His church. Any kind of time of true "awakening" to Christ, is by definition, going to be in the lives of people whom the status quo churches, prior to that, failed to reveal Christ to them. All the benefit to existing churches of an awakening owes to that sad fact, but even more so to the fact that the Holy Spirit is getting the truth to them, now, something which the status quo religious bureaucracies never did. That the newly awakened believers were too interested in an experience of God, in the eyes of the church politicians, would not be considered a problem by Jesus, who promised the believing babies that God could be experientially known, the way the sheep of the good Shepherd know His comforting voice. This true light from God had nothing to do with the darkness of counterfeitors like White, Russell or Smith, other than the alikeness borne by people from the same place and time.
Thank you for your teaching. It blessed me considerably!
Thanks for the history lesson! I was raised in Herbert Armstrong’s WWCG. I was jaded from that experience, left as a young teenager. I was born again years later and fell in love with the Good News. Part of the gospel that excited me was the fact (as a young Christian, post WWCG!) the veil was torn, Christ also fulfilled the law and the prophets!!
I have a brother in Christ who is dispensational. I have dove into eschatology in the last year and found myself squarely in the amillenial camp.
This helps me understand why dispensational teachings bother me so much as H. Armstrong was quite tied with this whole movement.
My friend and I do Not agree on eschatology, but we do agree on Jesus Christ. The Church does need unity, but we also need, good teaching, sound doctrine.
Thanks for the encouraging feedback. Keep praying. God is very good at changing minds with or without much help from us!
Very far, Armstrong is a cult
These lectures (this and one by Russel Moore) demonstrate the genuineness of the dangers of which Jesus warned - multiple false messiahs proceeding His future return but ironically occuring at a point in time described "when the Son of Man might not find faith on earth". This, all these abberant theologies should be expected. The Bible asserts that some spiritual truths had been hidden by God until after His passion and arrest of Saul, the (sole) apostle to the Gentiles OF THE WORLD, NOT just to Jews in Israel.
Bible believers ARE premillennialist, pretribulationist,
Hello, the Lord showed the rotten roots of Darbyism as well. However, I want to encourage you in the Lord to test amillenialism also according to the word of God.
Don't be tempted into thinking the opposite of one false doctrine equals truth.
Having recently been freed from dispensational premillennialism this is what I need to hear. Shortly after Jesus saved me in 1990, I was hungry for information. In Yuma, Az at a bookstore I came across “The Late Great Planet Earth” written by Hal Lindsey. Unfortunately that became my eschatology for the next 30 years.
Over the past 8 to 10 months the Lord has opened my eyes to this unscriptural view of the end times that permeates most of Evangelical America. He’s brought some excellent teachers to my attention. Gary Demar, Jim Jordan, Hank Hannagraffe and others. I just recently discovered Bruce Gore, a superb teacher of World history and Biblical history.
This is great, I’m 65 years old and look forward to learning as much as I can and unlearning a whole lot. I just never thought that there is a different interpretation of Scripture. This is really refreshing. I’m reinvigorated and excited to read Gods Word, trying to understand it as the author intended and the original audience understood it.
Thank you Professor Gore for your dedication to your calling ! 😁
My friend, a message like that makes it all worth it! Thank you.
Thank so much for the other teachers names. God bless you 🙏
It’s sad that you started with the truth but you’ve drifted away from it over time. I have experienced Christians such as Doug Hamp, Kent Hovind, and Rob Skiba who loved Chuck Missler’s teachings, but then changed horses by going from pre-trib to post-trib.
@@Landis_Grant Don’t quite understand why it’s sad. We will all end up in the same place. Worshiping the Lord of Glory for Eternity !
....what eschatology do you believe now.
I was looking for an impartial biographical telling of Darby and this was great! I appreciate the work you’ve presented.
John Darby was trained by the Jesuits and so was Charles Tate.John teached a false 7 year tribulation a secret rapture which is no where in the bible.Jesus says in John 6:39,40,44,54, John 11:24 says raise him up at the last day.Job 14:12-14.Darby,Charles Tate were Free Masons who the Jesuits controls all secret societies.
Dispensational ideas can be traced to the first century.
ua-cam.com/video/4HkPrUKhPug/v-deo.htmlsi=f33JPViY3VyO1_sl
Steve Gregg has a video that covers some of Darby's bio.
@@debravictoria7452 I’ll check it out
@@debravictoria7452 forget Steve Gregg. He teaches heresy
this was a very enlightening history lesson. it answered my questions about Darby. It's no wonder why there is so much confusion in religion to this day. I count myself blessed to be a bible believer. I try to pray and search out the truth on my own and I have a few friends who do the same. It's very hard these days to know what's true. thank you for your work
Thanks for your kind feedback!
Tammy Arndt I'm the same way. I said God, even though I have been taught one thing, I want to know what the Lord is truly saying because as a preacher of the gospel I dont want to lead His people into lies, but truth. It's sad. My heart hurts. I want Gods heart
Dispensationalism was definitely taught in the early Church. If you care to know the truth go here biblereasons.com/dispensationalism-and-the-early-church-fathers/ and see for yourself
@@pastorpresent1134 Good article thanks.
Past or Present
See what Jesus himself says in Mark 13 and Matthew 24. Clearly no secret Rapture or preTrib Rapture.
It’s sad to note that a simple lie can cause such a serious damage from one generation to another!
Absolutely true! Hence it is always a struggle for the truth to permeate the hearts of men! But ultimately the truth shall prevail over devil lies in Jesus Christ Name
Crapture
@@dafflad1 The rapture is a biblical concept in I Thessalonnians 4:16-17. Dispensationalism is not, but neither is so-called "Covenant Theology" or the evils of Calvinism.
@@richardlee2120 1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
The wrath was already coming at the time when the book was written.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
The wrath of God was coming upon them “at last”. This means it’s “around the corner”. It is however not directed towards the whole world but just the Jews who oppose the gospel from being taught to the Gentiles. Hence it could not have been directed to the whole world which makes up almost the whole world.
1 Thessalonians 3:3-4
so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. For you know quite well that we are destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know.
Paul tells the listeners to his letter who was addressed to that they were destined for this. Not our generation but theirs.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
The Day of the Lord
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
This tells us that the Thessalonians had at that time already know when the “thief in the night” was coming. There was no need for Paul to tell them when he was coming.
In others words, the whole letter tells us the events mentioned in the whole book was about to take place at that time.
So I have a question.
How can the following verses be interpreted to be events that have yet to happen until today?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Christ is your hope of glory. Not some rapture in the future.
@@richardlee2120 Let me say this.
Did you know whenever Paul mentions “in the air” he does not mean in mid-air but that “the spiritual realm”?
Ephesians 2:2
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
The air was the realm of Satan. It was where you were spiritually. So when Paul says:
1 Thessalonians 4:17
17 After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
It means you are transferred from the kingdom of darkness into his kingdom of marvelous light.
You were transformed from Sinai to Zion. You were transformed from
“Worshipping in Jerusalem” to “worshipping in the spirit”. You no longer look toward the “old Jerusalem and it’s temple” for worship. You now look into yourself as the new temple and the New Jerusalem.
You are transformed in the spiritual realm from Adam to Christ. You are moved from being a slave of sin to a slave of righteousness.
You are transformed from Hagar to Sarah. You are transformed from the bride of the Law to the bride of Christ.
Paul tells us when that was going to happen.
2 Corinthians 3:15-18
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord’s glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever- increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit.
This transformation happened when the veil is taken away. It happen when we see the Spirit.
What is this veil that is taken away? It is the Law of Moses. You know when that happened?
AD70. When the temple was destroyed. It was when the veil is fully lifted away. That was when you were transformed with a blink of an eye.
That’s when your engagement to Jesus became a wedding. You are as he is in heaven.
Romans 16:20
20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet.
The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
The key word to this promise is “soon”. Not 1000 years. Not 2000 years. But soon.
Paul tells us that we will meet Jesus in the air in 1st Thessalonians 4.
A quick overview of 1st Thessalonians.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead-Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.
The wrath was already coming at the time when the book was written.
1 Thessalonians 2:14-16
For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out.
They displease God and are hostile to everyone in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.
The wrath of God was coming upon them “at last”. This means it’s “around the corner”. It is however not directed towards the whole world but just the Jews who oppose the gospel from being taught to the Gentiles. Hence it could not have been directed to the whole world which makes up almost the whole world.
1 Thessalonians 3:3-4
so that no one would be unsettled by these trials. For you know quite well that we are destined for them. In fact, when we were with you, we kept telling you that we would be persecuted. And it turned out that way, as you well know.
Paul tells the listeners to his letter who was addressed to that they were destined for this. Not our generation but theirs.
1 Thessalonians 5:1-4
The Day of the Lord
Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.
But you, brothers and sisters, are not in darkness so that this day should surprise you like a thief.
This tells us that the Thessalonians had at that time already know when the “thief in the night” was coming. There was no need for Paul to tell them when he was coming.
In others words, the whole letter tells us the events mentioned in the whole book was about to take place at that time.
So I have a question.
How can the following verses be interpreted to be events that have yet to happen until today?
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever.
Jesus tells that in Luke that Satan fell like lightning.
Luke 10:18
18 He replied, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.
Do you know where your position is at this moment?
Ephesians 1:20
20 which he exerted in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly realms,
Seated in the heavenly realms. So you see you already have met him in the air. The word “in the air” means the heavenly realms. In fact it was where Satan dwelled.
Ephesians 2:2
2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
So you see the prince of the air got kicked out when you met Jesus in the air and when you took your seat in the heavenly realms.
That happened in AD70. That’s why Paul said in Romans 16 at the time he was writing it: He will SOON crush Satan under YOUR feet.
Since it has happened in AD70, He has crushed Satan under your feet.
That’s who you are now. Seated with him. Forever.
The John Nelson Darby section starts at 19:44
I have been wondering where this end time stuff got started. Thank you for giving a clear and true explanation. I love Jesus and have walked with Him 60 years. This fits what the Worldview that I have today. Your explanation on Revelation is the best. I will keep the truth close like a costly pearl necklace, and not let it go. Thanks again.
I appreciate your encouraging words. Thank you!
Who is really teaching “Replacement Theology” ?
(Did God fulfill His promises to the Jewish people at Calvary? Matthew 26:28, John 19:30)
The advocates of modern Dispensational Theology often accuse others of promoting “Replacement Theology”, or some may even say “Antisemitism”. What does the Bible say about their accusations?
1. Who is replacing Christ as the seed of Abraham through which all the families of the Earth would be blessed in Genesis 12:3, with Abraham’s modern descendants?
2. Who is replacing the one people of God in John 10:16, with two peoples of God ?
3. Who is replacing the one seed (Christ) in Galatians 3:16, with the many seeds?
4. Who is replacing the children of the promise in Romans 9:8, with the children of the flesh?
5. Who is replacing the faithful “remnant” of Israelites in Romans 11:1-5, with the Baal worshipers?
6. Who is replacing the word "so" in Romans 11:26, with the word "then"?
7. Who is attempting to replace the Church made up of all races of people, with one made up only of Gentiles? Why did Peter address the crowd as “all the house of Israel” in Acts 2:36, when about 3,000 Israelites accepted Christ on the Day of Pentecost?
8. Based on Hebrews 9:15, the New Covenant cannot be separated from the Messiah’s death. Is the covenant in Daniel 9:27 connected to the Messiah’s death in Daniel 9:26. Is the covenant with the “many” in Daniel 9:27 the same covenant with the “many” in Matthew 26:28? If it is, some have replaced the New Covenant in Daniel 9:27 with a future covenant made by an antichrist not found in Daniel chapter 9. (See the 1599 Geneva Bible used by the Pilgrims.)
9. Those promoting the Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology often accuse others of teaching “Replacement Theology”, but are they the masters of it? Are they promoting a form of Dual Covenant Theology based on race? (See “genealogies” in Titus 3:9)
10. Watch the UA-cam video “Genesis of Dispensational Theology” to see the origin of this man-made doctrine, which is less than 200 years old. It was brought to the United States about the time of the Civil War by John Nelson Darby. The doctrine was later incorporated into the notes of the Scofield Reference Bible, and then spread through much of the modern Church.
Dallas Theological Seminary in Dallas Texas was created in part to promote John Darby’s Two Peoples of God doctrine of Dispensational Theology.
Lewis Sperry Chafer, the first president of Dallas Theological, had the following to say about the difference between Israel and the Church:
“The dispensationalist believes that throughout the ages God is pursuing two distinct purposes: one related to the earth with earthly people and earthly objectives involved which is Judaism; while the other is related to heaven with heavenly people and heavenly objectives involved, which is Christianity.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer, Dispensationalism (Dallas, Seminary Press, 1936), p. 107.
Chafer states that, ‘Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne,’ that is, on earth and distinct from the church who will be in heaven.”
Lewis Sperry Chafer. Systematic Theology. 1975. Vol. IV. pp. 315-323.
John Walvoord, another prominent voice of Dallas Theological stated…
"...it is an article of normative dispensational belief that the boundaries of the land promised to Abraham and his descendants from the Nile to the Euphrates will be literally instituted and that Jesus Christ will return to a literal and theocratic Jewish kingdom centred on a rebuilt temple in Jerusalem. In such a scheme the Church on earth is relegated to the status of a parenthesis.”
John F. Walvoord, The Rapture Question.1979, p. 25
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Are there two peoples of God in John 10:16? (See also 1 John 2:22-23, 2 John 1:7-11.)
What is the land promise to the Old Testament Saints in Hebrews 11:15-16?
Based on 2 Peter 3:10-13, is this earth “eternal”? Will it be replaced by a new earth?
Based on Acts 2:36, and Romans 9:6-8, and Romans 11:1-5, and Hebrews 12:22-24, and James 1:1-3, can faithful Israel and the Church be separated into two different groups?
Who is the New Covenant promised to in Jeremiah 31:31-34, and Hebrews 8:6-13?
Will modern Orthodox Jews ever be saved outside of the New Covenant Church?
I recently did a video "Who is the Antichrist and why does it matter", and in the description I have a playlist with a Chris Pinto video you may find interesting.
(From the Bible) The end. The Beast
Lawlessness and iniquity were already at work when Revelation in the Bible was written. People had already started another movement and were preaching another Jesus, 2 Cor 11, 2 Thes 2:7. And it was for this reason Revelation was penned in riddles and a conundrum to understand. For the abandonment of the truth had already begun and the mysteries of heaven were hidden from those of this world. And is now revealed in this last day, Mt 13:11, Rv 14:6.
What Revelation tells is a perplexing story. And to paraphrase what it forewarns and says: is there are two beasts that come to power. The way the story unfolds in Revelation is the first beast will suffer a head wound and appears dead when a second beast emerges on the scene. The second beast acquires all the first beast's power and helps heal the first beast's head wound, whereby he restores the first beast.
At which point, the second beast will make an image of the first beast causing it to say great things. And he will kill everyone who refuses to worship him or the image he has created.
Now if that isn't enough the second beast has a number for his name, which is 666.
To understand what Revelation is saying; You will have to realize when Jesus came he cast evil spirits out of many people. This enabled him to heal their ailments.
One example of spirit possession was when, Jesus was in the synagogue there was a man, which had a spirit of an unclean devil, the spirit in this man cried out with a loud voice, saying, Leave us alone; what do we have to do with thee, thou Jesus of Nazareth? have you come to destroy us? I know you are the Holy One of God. At which point Jesus rebuked him, saying, Hold thy peace, and cast the evil spirit out of him. Lk 4: 33-35. That verse in Scripture reveals the devil is an evil spirit that inhabits people and he knows Jesus is the Christ.
In fact, later that day, when the sun was setting, many sick people were brought unto Christ; and Jesus laid his hands on every one of them, and healed them. And those who were possessed by devils came out of many, crying out, and saying, Thou art Christ the Son of God. And he rebuking them suffered them not to speak: for they knew that he was Christ, Lk 4: 40-41, Mt 8:16. So you see, evil spirits in people will confess Christ is the Son of God but obviously don’t follow his teachings.
There are many other Scriptures that reveal this evil spirit's existence. And whether people believe in this presentation of the Bible or not, the beast is an evil spirit and the devil mentioned in Revelation!
Then if you can understand the beast is an evil spirit, you will be able to interpret Revelation thirteen and Revelation seventeen. Whereas a beast would rise and it would have seven heads but these heads are actually mountains, Rv 17:9. As we know, on this day, there are seven continents that make up this world. And if you could visualize a continent rising out of the sea, you would know it is a huge mountain. Hence the seven heads on this beast are the seven continents because it was the devil's goal to deceive the entire world, Rv 12:9!
Now the first player or, as Revelation explained, the "first beast" was the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire ruled the world with an iron hand. They didn't accept Christ's teachings of evil spirits possessing them and they were in throes of Satan. They followed their own philosophies and once Christ was crucified; they persecuted the true Christians. Only God knows the atrocities they put them through. Whereby, it was given unto him (the evil spirit in them) to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations Rv 13:7. The world.
Then Revelation explains the first beast would suffer a head wound and appear dead yet he would survive. So, one continent or that being one head on the beast was diffused. And of course, that was the Roman Empire (Europe). The Roman Empire was annihilated but after some years the continent was reestablished, however, they didn’t regain the power, she once enjoyed, Rv 13:3. This was because a second beast was rising. He appeared to have two horns like a lamb and spoke as a dragon, Rv 13:11. Having two horns like a lamb signifies two powers, and a lamb symbolizes Jesus.
Approximately 666 AD history reveals during the Roman Empire’s demise there arose two apostate theologies fitting the description of a lamb. Both are divided into many issues but worship the same god in fact three of them. At first, they destroyed Israel and she was not a nation for nearly two thousand years Mth 24: 16-20.
The teachings Christ brought were ignored and the doctrine of peace by force was adopted. Which eventually led to WWI and WWII. They made statues of those whom they killed even praying to them. They caused a movement that proclaimed to the world they were capable to lead all to Christ. These men saw how the true apostles called upon God's Spirit, and they assumed they could do the same thing. But because they were not established by the God of heaven, they caused those who followed them to receive an evil spirit whom they called the Holy Spirit. Even, 2 Corinthians 11:4 explains they preach another Jesus and take into them another spirit. This is in fact the abomination that brought ruin upon the world. Revelation explains this by saying; The second beast would cause the world to worship the first beast ( an evil spirit). Whereby people accepted another spirit in place of him who is Holy. Jn 2:18, 3Tim 3:17. Thus causing the world to worship the beast (an evil spirit) as God.
Paul explained in Acts twenty, verse thirty, and thirty-one how these imposters were sitting with him. He warned how they would become apostate theologians. And explained how they would not spare the true church. But in fact, they would speak headstrong theology and would be against what Christ taught. They were obviously covetous and their goal was to make merchandise out of people and get followers to follow them. So, I hope you see, because it is one thing to sin which all of us are guilty of, but another thing to be governed by evil's depths. One example of a person who is governed by the depths of depravity is those who are serial killers. And if you knew a religious leader was conveying lies to his flock, causing them to die and end up in hell wouldn't you consider this leader a serial killer?
And by all of this, I hope you are able to comprehend the beast is an evil spirit that influences people and if you are able to realize the first beast was an evil spirit that influenced the Roman Empire. The second beast was another population also influenced by this spirit. They would create an image of the first beast. Whereby the image would be likeness which would be another country with the same ambitions as the Empire.
Sure there were wars that brought in the beginning of sorrows. WWI and WWII. But when the abomination of desolation is made known we find trouble not seen before. At which point we find a man will rise in power. And he will claim he is capable of saving the world. This is the man spoken of in Thessalonians. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not, Mt 24:26. “Those who see "him" will gaze at him, And consider him, saying: 'Is this the one who made the earth tremble, Isa 14:16.
@@bbell873is there Bible references that would show that the recipients of the book would have understood the seven heads to mean seven continents? I understand that not everyone will understand, because their comprehension is purposely inhibited, but were the seven continents a reality at the time?
So very blessed I am to listen to you. I confess I listen to the same segment like 6 times. Kinda let it sink in.
Thank you!
After several years of secular existence, I was attracted to Charles Taze Russell's Bible Students Association, because of some of their teachings. But, I was always skeptical of their 1874/1914 eschatology. I started challenging it, and the movement had a vertical split in India, with one group sticking to 1874/1914 and the other becoming plain vanilla futurists.
Though I was the one who initiated the debate, I didn't become part of either the groups. I chose to study the Bible. I studied the Bible, several times, noting down all the dates, coming of the Lord, prophecies ... and so on. And, I became a Preterist, even when I didn't know of such a word.
I have shared your videos on Facebook and I think quite a few people appreciate them.
Regards,
Tomsan
Thanks for the interesting bio, and thanks for your encouragement!
Biblical eschatology refines as time progresses.
@@lauroandrea3241 Biblical eschatology is within the Bible and it remains the same. People come up with their own theories, mostly because they want those who they hate to be portrayed as villains and enemies of God.
He was known as the father of the Jehovah’s Witnesses. They called themselves Bible students and Dr. Ruthaford took over for Taz as president of the organization. (The watchtower Bible and tract society)
I was an unofficial member of the Plymouth Brethren in that I owned a 1987 Plymouth Voyager I finally had to scrap in 2020 after driving it for 33 years. Since the Chrysler Corporation withdrew the brand from the marketplace in 2001, my membership had been idling on borrowed time for the past 19 years. However, it was a great vehicle that served my family well and there were tears in my eyes when the tow truck picked it up and drove it away earlier this month.
Thank you for these lectures
Your Sunday school message at the end was profound and reminded me of Matt 23:3
Thank you!
God bless you brother. I really enjoy your work. Thank you so much for sharing your love of God & your passion for history with the rest of us. You perspectives & insights are such a treat for a person like me. Your work has even helped me to be better equipped to answer questions for people trying to learn the Word & to understand where we are in this time, where history & prophecy meet in the Word of God. Thank you so much & may you be richly blessed in Jesus' name.
I am very grateful for your warm and generous encouragement. Thank you and blessings to you in your ministry!
Thank you for the information. I appreciate your even handed approach to things you probably disagree with. It’s nice to hear the general facts without the constant judgement.
I had never heard of Darby before stumbling on it on you tube. I as a Bible Believing Christian saved by the Grace and Mercy of GOD Ephesian 2:8-9 through the shed blood of Jesus Christ study the scriptures as stated by Paul in 2 Timothy 2:15 have come to the conclusion that the Word of GOD does acknowledge a dispensation of time and references Jews and Gentiles (others) whom he is speaking to.
Acts 10:34
King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons. There is neither jew nor Greek, completely fake theology!
This was incredibly helpful for a Revelation interpretation paper I had to write for college; thanks!
I believe there are a couple of inaccuracies in this lecture.1. The version of the MacDonald prophecy I read did not refer to the type of 'rapture' Darby taught.
2. The organization started by Irving and/or his successors died out when their last church officials died, since they didn't think they could appoint successors to their 'apostles.' There are some splinter groups on the European mainland over splits that occurred when they appointed other 'apostles'. I have read of at least two denominations that survive, one in Germany, and one in Scandinavia.
+SaudaraLink Thanks for the feedback!
Thanks for posting these videos. They are very interesting.
1. Darby and Irving attended the same conference and influenced their views no matter what Macdonald said. Future conferences in Albury sponsored by Henry Drummond(Bank owner and investor for nobility) rounded out Irving's thoughts and through Henry's patronage and together with J. B. Cardale(Henry's lawyer) and half of Irving's congregation started the CAC. Drumond and Cardale were also the first Apostles called to the new order but it wasn't their intention to start a church...they merely wanted to perfect or improve Christianity.
2. Several splinters occurred first in 1863 by the Hamburg congregation that eventually went on to become the presently named New Apostolic Church(10 million members worldwide) and dozens of other splits that occurred in the 20 century with many still existing today.
@@tilbrons Can you provide a lot more information regarding the people involved in Darby etc and the Dispensation issue!
When he discusses Joseph Smith, he mentions Oliver Rigdon as a scribe during the translation of the Book of Mormon. I believe he meant Oliver Cowdery. Sidney Rigdon came a little later
Thanks for the correction!
I wish it didn't take so long to get to the John Darby part. At first, I thought this video was mislabeled but do appreciate the information.
Charles Taze Russell's monthly newsletter was called Zion's Watch Tower.
Kattackal Tomsan Thanks for the clarification!
Oliver Cowdery was a witness. Sidney Rigdon was the Baptist preacher who joined them and was accused of stealing the idea from an author. No worries ... I get the names in history mixed up sometimes myself. Excellent lessons. Thanks.
Thanks for the clarification!
If you read Darby's writings unprejudiced, you will see what a gift he was to the church of God. His writings continue to be on the top shelf of my library. I have found no other who knew and understand the scriptures more than he. It amazes me so few know of his teaching on ecclesiology, soteriology and on. He has been railed and ridiculed for a long time. William Kelly(bible scholar) said in the forward of the Bible Treasury, a magazine which he was the editor said, read Darby. I could not agree more. This is just my humble opinion.
I'd say any Post-millenial or Amillenial person understands the scripture better than Darby.
@@6amsensei945Anyone who allegorizes the fascinating words of the Word of God is to be pitied and prayed for. “Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2: 15.
Dispensationalism is a pox on the Church and led to the death of millions and the waste of trillions of dollars
Just after watching part two of your series Brother and thoroughly enjoyed it😃Couldn’t resist your we teaser on J.N. Darby and dispsationalism in part 8.But surely Darby didn’t invent dispensationalism,as there were dispensational models before Darby.For example,Pierre Poiret and John Edwards etc…! Also is it not fair to say that Darby became a believer in the pre tribulation rapture no later then 1826,or 1827 at the latest? And surely Darby couldn’t of gotten his pre tribulationism from Margaret McDonald,Edward Irvine or,some would say,Manuel de Lacunza,as Lacunza was a 45 day partial rapture post tribulationist,and McDonald was also a partial rapture post tribulationist(She believed that,“the trial of the church is from Antichrist”). (Both were really of the two stage pre conflagration post rapture view of Joseph Mede).And Edward Erving also believed in a post rapture second coming of Christ.Erving actually wrote that,”we have blessed be God lived to see the commencement of the seventh vial,during the outpouring of which the Lord will come”.He obviously believed that the church was already in the tribulation period.Please don’t think that I’m trying to be argumentative brother,I’m really not.Darby said himself that he saw his pre tribulationism in 2 Thessalonians 2:1-2.And that he saw in Isaiah chapter 32:1 A new economy of God when “a King shall reign in righteousness”. I really am enjoying your videos,even though I am of a different school then yourself. Blessings in Christ brother📖✝️🙂
Joseph Smith died in a shootout at Carthage Jail in Carthage, Illinois. After his death, his widow Emma remained in Nauvoo, Illinois, remarried, and joined the Reorganized LDS church movement.🙂
My mother is always still here and she believes in the secret rapture and seven year tribulation. But if it was made up, it isn’t going to happen.
One Lord, one faith, one baptism, one Father:
Ephesians 4:5 One Lord, one faith, one
baptism, 6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all,
and in you all. 7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the
measure of the gift of Christ.
Habukkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up
is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.
Romans 9:30 What shall we say then? That the
Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to
righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of
righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. 32 Wherefore?
Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law.
For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in
Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall
not be ashamed.
Romans 11: 17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be grafted in.
20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness,
if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again.
24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a
good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?
1 Corinthians 10: Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and
all passed through the sea; 2 And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 And did all eat the same spiritual meat; 4 And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ.
Luke 1:68 Blessed be the Lord God of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
69 And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant David;
70 As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets, which have been since the world began:
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
I particularly liked your comment at the end, along the lines of … we follow biblical order yet allow the Holy Spirit to intervene as he wills … we get into access when we try to makes the unusual the normal.
The words they use in the NT are types and shadows of the OT. Such as coming in the clouds. Keep in mind Culture and Content.
I was raised in the Plymouth Brethren Church tarted by John Nelson Darby and over the years it has turned into a cult, I left this church in 1997.
And it is still a cult :(
@@MRAGFT7 I've never heard it described as a cult before? What aspects make it a cult?
@@Tom-qo4mz to make it short: the insane amount of legalism. Even if a believing baptist comes in, he/she cannot partake in the Lord's supper nor talk or share anything from the pulpit or just simply pray. You have to adhere to the church first, then you can do all of that.
Also, if as a man you are not in a suit then you're not allowed to partake in the Lord's supper nor ask for a song or even pray. In addition, women from church are not allowed to enter unless they have a head covering.
I'm not making this up, I come from one, so I know what I'm talking about. And to me all that pretty much makes it into a cult, sadly.
@@MRAGFT7 damn, ty for the info! :/
@@MRAGFT7
That’s crazy, I didn’t know all that. I recently read the dispute and animosity that John Nelson Darby and Benjamin Wills Newton had in regard to their different Eschatologies. Basically, my understanding is Darby would excommunicate anyone who did not agree with his dispensationalism. I don’t think it was like that right away but it became like that in time. In other words, Darby’s dispensationalism became the factor as to whether or not someone was a brother in Christ to him. A lot of people do not know this venomous and disastrous character of Darby. This is how the open Brethren and Exclusive brethren were formed. Please correct me if I am wrong.
“The kingdom of God is within you” Luke 17:21. So, how many times will we listen to con artists and purveyors of fear before we begin to look for love within?
This one is from KJV+
Luk 17:21 NeitherG3761 shall they say,G2046 LoG2400 here!G5602 or,G2228 loG2400 there!G1563 for,G1063 behold,G2400 theG3588 kingdomG932 of GodG2316 isG2076 withinG1787 you.G5216
G1787
ἐντός
entos
en-tos'
From G1722; inside (adverb or noun): - within.
This is from the ISV
Luk 17:21 People won't be saying, 'Look! Here it is!' or 'There it is!' because now the kingdom of God is among you."
Curtis Hazen is right in his understanding of this verse. Since the Holy Spirit could only abide within one person at a time until the feast of first fruits.
(2Ki 2:9) And it came to pass, when they were gone over, that Elijah said unto Elisha, Ask what I shall do for thee, before I be taken away from thee. And Elisha said, I pray thee, let a double portion of thy spirit be upon me.
(2Ki 2:10) And he said, Thou hast asked a hard thing: nevertheless, if thou see me when I am taken from thee, it shall be so unto thee; but if not, it shall not be so.
Francis Bacon once said, “Read not to believe and take for granted, nor to contradict and confute, but to weigh and consider.”
"For what human affairs can seem important to a man who keeps all eternity before his eyes and knows the vastness of the universe?" - World Map, 1595
@@darmok-hm6jx you are just a liar.. the Koine word "ἐντός" very specifically means within as in "καρδία μου τετάρακται ἐντός μου" in Psalm 108:22 whichg means my heart is wounded WITHIN me or "my belly within me" in Isaiah 16:11 or "my heart within me" in Psalm 38:4. or "you blind pharisees first clean the INSIDE of the cup..." Matt 23:26
@@inTruthbyGrace Are you calling me a liar, while agreeing with Strong's [inside (adverb or noun): - within.]? I think you may have misread what I wrote.
When an honest person discovers he is mistaken, he either ceases to be mistaken or cease being honest. -anom
duckduckgo.com/?t=ffcm&q=%E1%BC%90%CE%BD%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82&atb=v251-4&ia=web
Sometimes academically very smart people often aren’t well blessed with common sense and are prone to severe tunnel vision. - Michael Schlueter
He was speaking to the wicked pharisees. Was the kingdom of God within them?
JN Darby brought the truth of dispensationalism and rightly dividing the scriptures and the wonderful joy of believers of the snatching of believers from the earth
No, Darby cast a net of enchantment over the evangelical church that has believers (saved and unsaved) caught in its powerful spell to this day. I used to be a victim of it but now I seek to destroy it if I have to do it myself!
@dfkuz What church? I grew up in the 50s and Darby's books were in the library. We didn't follow any man but Darby's teachings were and ARE wonderful
@@Over-for-nowYou sound…enchanted.
@dfkuz if that means it brings joy to know the truth of God's Word, you are correct
@@Over-for-nowBut it’s obvious you’ve been misled about God’s word.
Genesis through Acts was prophecy; Post-Acts (7) letters of Paul were according to the mystery (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:25-26). Jesus returns to earth during the mystery, not prophecy! (He wanted to return but the nation of Judah rejected their Messiah so God rejected her at the end of Acts).
Colossians (mystery epistle) 3:4: his appearing back on this earth! Colossians 1:13: he receives his inheritance from his Father, the kingdom with HIS name on it - not Israel’s or Judah’s, because he gets to decide which INDIVIDUALs will share it with him - not nations, not churches, but all those humans that had faith during their particular lifetime! The saints of time past and the believers saved according to the mystery will be made of twain the “one new man” of Ephesians 2:15 KJV.
How can the one new man be partly in heaven and partly on earth in the kingdom of God’s dear Son? Think about it!
Bruce Gore You're a historical angel.
I hope that's good!
Bruce Gore As long as you don't appear to someone in a vision with secret prophecies regarding the end times, I would say that's a good thing ha ha
Well, if I do show up with such prophecies, you have my permission to toss me out the nearest window. Thanks!
Bruce Gore Hahaha 😂
For your info the Anglican church in Ireland is always called the church Ireland. I have been in Ireland 3 times and I saw it with my own eyes
Ty x Every blessing in Christ x
thank you for these most excellent teachings, brother Bruce. Merry Christmas from Arkansas.
Thank you!
Thank you very much sir.
A very insightful lecture
Thank you for sharing.
And now today we have UA-cam full of people saying they receiving dreams and visions from God that the rapture is here any day now
Nelson Barour, himself a Millerite who experenced the disapointment of Oct 22, 1844, renewed the beliefs of the '44 Spiritualizers, teaching that Jesus came back spiritualy (note: note using the word the way we use it today regarding contacting the dead). He was an older man than Russell (born 1853) who was in his late teens when he met Wendell who as an Advent Chrisitian minister. This church was the orgazined after the 1845 Albany conference which orgained most Millerties (Adventists) into two demoniations largely split between conditionalism and Greek Dualism. The Advent Christian church held to the former. The other two main denominations that would come out of Millerism directly was the little Flock who accepted the Sabbath and would become the Seventh-day Adventist Church and the Church of God (Abrahmaic Faith), both of which were not part of the albany conference. The SDAs who were the smallest group would go on to become the largest Adventist group. Russell took about 50 Advent Chrisitans with him when he established his group that would latter become Jehoviah's Witnessess by 1930.
Oliver Rigdon? Or, Sidney Rigdon.
There is only one Dispensation through all history, and it is God's offer of salvation by "grace through faith' in the blood sacrifice, starting with the animals killed to create the clothes to cover Adam and Eve's nakedness and culminating in the sacrifice of God's Only Begotten Son, Jesus Christ, for the sins of all mankind.
Precisely. GOD IS IMMUTABLE. Anyone who accepts the false gospel of Dispensationalism, believes God has changed.
Fohpono - That is such a ridiculous statement. Do you think God treated Abraham who was reckoned righteous by faith, to be the same as how Israel were treated by God under Law. God's promise to Abraham was unconditional, whereas the treatment from God towards Israel was totally conditional on their obedience to the Law.
It is perfectly clear that, though God does not change and cannot change, that He however treats man according to the 'light' that he has from God. The very fact that Abraham knew God as the Almighty, and Israel knew God as Jehovah, shows that God treats men differently down the ages in different dispensations. In this dispensation which we now live in God has revealed Himself, through the Son, as 'Father'. Completely differently again from Israel.
@@Hebrew42Day I believe in different dispensations, but I do not believe that God has changed. However, God makes Himself known according to the light we have from Him. It is clear that you are still in the dark in regard to the teachings of the apostle Paul and the Lord Jesus Christ himself.
@@smeatonlighthouse4384 Very VERY well said, SL. Thank you for that!
God's principles have not changed. His program of Salvation has changed through time.
This is Great information
As a Jehovah's witness I thank you and appreciate the historical context you highlight . Although at times I wouldn't agree with your theology I do appreciate the work you put into your lectures and engaging manner of presentation.
I appreciate your kind feedback. Thank you!
I just wanted to find a little perspective on Jonathan Edwards’ view of revelation.... hours later I’m still watching your videos. This is so interesting! I grew up in a Christian home, went to a bible college and don’t think I have ever heard the church history layed out in this perspective. Thank you for posting this ❤️😁
119 Ministries has an excellent study on this subject as well.
Wow, thank you for the research.
You're welcome. Thanks for your interest!
What sources do we have to verify this story about how the rapture doctrine came to be (the account of the lay girls trance and Edward Irving latching on the the idea of a pre trib rapture)? I've heard this account is up for debate.
The allegation has certainly been debated hotly, especially by apologists for dispensationalism. A good place to start in looking for the sources in support of the claim can be found at the following site.
web.archive.org/web/20110927074110/www.thewordsofeternallife.com/scholars.html
@@GoreBruce thank you so much for your response! I will definitely check it out.
@@GoreBruce I notice some parallels between Trumpism, as it's presenting itself among evangelical Americans and this sort of attachment to this dispensational theology. It's very interesting.
It’s interesting and sad at the same time that Darby and Scofield’s Dispensationalism has become the most popular in the majority of the churches today. When I first became a Christian, I didn’t know there was any other view except for Dispensationalism and even at that time I don’t even know what Dispensationalism was. But the more I studied Theology and history I found out there were other Eschatological views that made way more sense to me. At the time before I knew anything about Eschatology something about Dispensationalism did not sit right with me but I can never narrow it down to something specific. But now that I am aware of Amillennialism, Postmillennialism and Preterism I realized through my own studies and reading a lot of theologians throughout Church History that Dispensationalism is hardly Biblical. It seems to be a philosophical way of thinking outside of the Bible, then forced into the Bible to make it seem Biblical.
I feel bad for people like yourself. I have to wonder are Pastors lying or ignorant? It's a lie that Darby "invented" Dispensational Premillennialism. Sure Christians have gotten dates and ideas wrong like the Left Behind series but we have AMPLE, like a lot of commentaries from the early Christians showing they were dispensational premilleninnialists. I saw some of these texts 30 years ago as I have books from 1995 that show early Christian doctrine. Yet 30 years later I see YT videos where Pastors and teachers continually claim it's a "new' doctrine invented by Darby and Scofield. We can debate whether it's an accurate view in the context of Scripture but I wish Pastors and teachers would stop saying it's a new idea because it's a lie.
Proof of Premillennialism in the early Church. Barnabas, AD First Century “Therefore, children, in six days, or in six thousand years, all the prophecies will be fulfilled. Then it says, ‘He rested on the seventh day.’ This signifies at the Second Coming of our Lord Jesus, He will destroy the Antichrist, judge the ungodly, and change the sun, moon, and stars. Then He will truly rest during the Millennial reign, which is the seventh day.” Epistle of Barnabas 15:7-9
Commodianus, AD 240 “We will be immortal when the six thousand years are completed.” Against the Gods of the Heathens 35 “Resurrection of the body will be when six thousand years are completed, and after the one thousand years, the world will come to an end.” Against the Gods of the Heathens 80
Victorinus, AD 240 “Satan will be bound until the thousand years are finished; that is, after the sixth day.” Commentary on Revelation 20.1-3
Methodius, AD 290 “In the seventh millennium we will be immortal and truly celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.” Ten Virgins 9.1
Even Judaism teaches Premillennialism.
www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/607585/jewish/Significance-of-the-year-6000.htm
"The Talmud tells us that this world, as we know it, will last for six thousand years, with the seventh millennium ushering in the cosmic Shabbat, the Messianic Era. Six days a week we work, and on the Shabbat we rest and enjoy the fruits of our labor; the same is true with millenniums. However, it is certainly possible for Moshiach to come earlier. And we believe, hope, and pray each day that this is the day when Moshiach will come... So yes, we don't know exactly when Moshiach will come, but we do know that it will be before the year 6000.”
We also have a lot of writings showing the early Christians were "dispensationalist's”
First, we need to understand the lineage of disciples Apostle John taught Polycarp. Polycarp taught Irenaeus, and it is said that Irenaeus even met John a few times. Irenaeus taught Hippolytus.
Irenaeus (about 180 AD) who wrote his 5 volume works called “Against Heresies” who was a disciple of Polycarp who was a disciple of the Apostle John. “In 2 Thessalonians, the ‘falling away’ is an apostasy and there will be a literal rebuilt temple. In Matthew, the ‘abomination spoken by Daniel’ is the Antichrist sitting in the temple as if he were Christ. The abomination will start in the middle of Daniel’s 70th week and last for a literal three years and six months. The little horn is the Antichrist. Against Heresies 5.25
Ephrem 306-373 AD in his writings called "The End Times" Before the time of abomination (which Irenaeus says is in the middle of the 7 years; after 3 years and 6 months). of his desolation having been made legal, he takes the empire, and, just as it is said in the Psalm: “They have been made for the undertaking for the sons of Lot” Psalm 83:8 The Moabites and the Ammonites shall meet him first as their king. Therefore, when he receives the kingdom, he orders the temple of God to be rebuilt for himself, which is in Jerusalem, who coming into it, he shall sit as God and order that he be adored by all nations, since he is carnal, filthy, and mixed with worthless spirit and flesh…Because the very wicked serpent shall direct every worship to himself. Because he shall put forth an edict so that people may be circumcised according to the rite of the old law. The Jews shall congratulate him, because he gave them again he practice of the first covenant; then all people from everywhere shall flock together to him at the city of Jerusalem and the holy city shall be trampled on by the nations for forty-two months just as the holy apostle says in the Apocalypse, which become three and a half years, 1,260 days.
Hippolytus (170-235 AD) wrote a 67 section/ chapter writing called "The Antichrist - a Treatise on Christ and Antichrist" "Now we must consider the question at hand, letting the previous introduction suffice. We must find out what the Holy Scriptures teach about: the occasion and time of the coming of Antichrist what tribe he comes from what his name is (from the number 666 in Scripture) how he shall work error among the people, gathering them from the ends of the earth his tribulation and persecution against the saints how he glorifies himself as God. What his end shall be the Lord’s sudden appearing revealed from heaven the conflagration of the whole world the glorious and heavenly kingdom of the saints when they reign together with Christ the punishment of the wicked by fire." Section 5-Prophecy introduction.
continued in his writing…
"Now Daniel will set forth this subject to us. For he says, “And one week will make a covenant with many, and it shall be that in the midst of the week my sacrifice and oblation shall cease.” Daniel 9:27 By one week, therefore, he meant the last week which is to be at the end of the whole world, of which week the two prophets Enoch and Elias will take up the half. For they will preach 1,260 days clothed in sackcloth, proclaiming repentance to the people and to all the nations." ...For John says, “And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.” Revelation 11:3 That is the half of the week that Daniel spoke about. “These are the two olive trees and the two candlesticks standing before the Lord of the earth. And if any man will hurt them, fire will proceed out of their mouth, and devour their enemies; and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed. These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy; and have power over waters, to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues as often as they will.” Revelation 11:4-6 And when they shall have finished their course and their testimony, what does the prophet say? “the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them,” Revelation 11:7 because they will not give glory to Antichrist. For this is meant by the little horn that grows up. He, being now elated in heart, begins to exalt himself, and to glorify himself as God, persecuting the saints and blaspheming Christ, even as Daniel says, “I considered the horns, and, behold, in the horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things; and he opened his mouth to blaspheme God. And that born made war against the saints, and prevailed against them until the beast was slain, and perished, and his body was given to be burned.” Daniel 7:8
This is like 1 section of Hippolytus's 67 sections in this commentary. Early Church Father's wrote entire books on this topic and so it's frustrating and sad to see the utter disgust and dismissal of a very foundational doctrine of the Disciples of the Apostles. For whatever reason many Christians continue to claim Darby invented this doctrine. Sure he had ideas about it but as you can clearly see the doctrine wasn't his idea. What people on every side of this topic Post, Pre, A mill all agree on is that however you understand Eschatology greatly impacts your understanding of the rest of Scripture since 1/3 of Scripture is dedicated to the topic, and 150+ chapters mention the 2nd Coming as a specific event. That might be a problem for the remaining 2/3 of Scripture.
It's so very sad that you never learned that although the modern-day understanding about events and timing might have been wrong that it's based on many commentaries written by early Christian church fathers on the topic. Let me leave you with a simple thought.
Throughout biblical history, the enemy has tried to destroy the Jewish people, the enemy used people to massacre babies, yet today many Christians don't see that same effort with Israel and the Jewish people.
That somehow things changed. Even though Romans 11 debunks the idea of Replacement theology. On OCT 7 we saw evil massacre babies and women. They were targeted and singled out. Why? Because babies grow up to have babies and women bear children. The attack was one of genocide. The Enemy knows his goal has never changed wipe out the Jewish people and Israel and GOD is no longer GOD. The LORD has promised to protect His people. If Israel is destroyed GOD is not GOD.
There are unfulfilled promises yet to be completed Ezekiel 37:21-23, Jeremiah 24:3-8, Daniel 9:24, Romans 11:27, etc. Don't let blindness keep you from seeing the truth. Take care.
Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Romans 4:8
Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.
Colossians 1:13
Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
A lie can travel half way around the world while truth in putting on it's shoes. Charles Spurgeon. Likewise blinkers diminish the light.
Spurgeon and his siding with Darwin
From the wikipedia page on Margaret MacDonald. Appreciate any insights you have to offer on this:
"However, scholars think there are major obstacles that render these accusations untenable. It is clear that Darby regarded the 1830 charismatic manifestations as demonic and not of God.[4] Darby would not have borrowed an idea from a source that he clearly thought was demonic.[9] Also Darby had already written out his pretribulation rapture views in January 1827, 3 years prior to the 1830 events and any MacDonald utterance.[10] When MacDonald's utterance is read closely, her statements appear to present a posttribulationist scenario ("being the fiery trial which is to try us" and "for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus").[11][12] Confusion on this point was enhanced because while MacDonald's vision as first published in 1840 describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture, a version published in 1861 lacked two important passages that appear to present a post-tribulation view: "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[8] For these and other reasons, dispensational scholars consider MacPherson's alleged connection to dispensationalism as untenable.[13]"
Thanks for the feedback. As I mention in the presentation, the degree to which J.N. Darby relied on MacDonald's vision has been a matter of controversy. The contributor to the Wiki article certainly represents a competent apologist for dispensational eschatology.
To me, the weightier question is not the degree to which Darby relied on Margaret MacDonald, but the degree to which he relied on the Bible for his views. That, of course, remains highly doubtful.
Might I ask, was this man involved in the creation of Dispensationalism?
Manuel De Lacunza, S.J. (July 19, 1731 - c. June 18, 1801) was a Jesuit priest who used the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben-Ezra in his main work on the interpretation of the prophecies of the Bible, which was entitled The Coming of the Messiah in Majesty and Glory.
There were little hints of certain details of a dispensational outlook that date clear back to the second and third centuries. These were mostly attempts to retain some distinct redemptive status for ethnic Israel in spite of New Testament teaching on the point. Darby was the first to develop a comprehensive scheme predicated on the that presupposition.
Hey Bruce, this lecture is fascinating. I did not even know some of the other religious cults came out of this regarding the backgrounds of how they came into the equation itself. Never heard some of those names either. Wow.
Another nice lecture itself. Good work Bruce.
Daveyo747 Thanks!
***** Your most welcome, and I hope you continue to do more to educate us as we do need to know these things.
***** Thank you for the excellent lecture on John Darby. Take a look at the UA-cam video "Genesis of Dispensational Theology" when you get a chance.
The Greek word from this term “rapture” is derived appears in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, translated “caught up.” The Latin translation of this verse used the word rapturo. The Greek word it translates is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away. Elsewhere it is used to describe how the Spirit caught up Philip near Gaza and brought him to Caesarea (Acts 8:39) and to describe Paul’s experience of being caught up into the third heaven (2 Cor. 12:2-4). Thus there can be no doubt that the word is used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17 to indicate the actual removal of people from earth to heaven.
Definition: Harpazo
v.
1. to seize, carry off by force
2. to seize on, claim for one’s self eagerly
3. to snatch out or away
~ from Thayer’s (New Testament Greek-English Lexicon)
In the Greek New Testament, the word harpazo is found a total of 17 times in 13 different verses. Each time harpazo is used this verb refers to a quick or sudden often violently physical “snatching away” or “catching away” of a person, a thing, or an idea. More important is the fact that in 5 of these 17 times harpazo is used in the New Testament harpazo ALWAYS refers to the literal physical (bodily) removal of a faithfully righteous human being from one place to another, or from one sphere of existence to another. The 5 times harpazo is used involving faithfully righteous people are when:
1. Philip is harpazo’d from the presence of the Ethiopian eunuch to a different location miles away (see Acts 8:39, KJV)
2. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven (see 2 Corinthians 12:2, KJV)
3. Paul is harpazo’d from the Earth to the Third Heaven; second reference (see 2 Corinthians 12:4, KJV)
4. Bride of Christ is harpazo’d from the Earth to the clouds to meet Her Groom (Christ Jesus) in the air (see 1 Thessalonians 4:17, KJV); the understanding here is that the Bride will be taken to Heaven to be with Her Groom
5. Christ Jesus is harpazo’d from Bethany near the Mount of Olives to His Throne in Heaven (see Revelation 12:5; cf. Luke 24:50-51; Acts 1:9; KJV)
Each one of the above five supernaturally powerful acts of the Holy Spirit by which literal bodily removals of humans either from one place to another on Earth or from off of this Earth to Heaven proves that the Rapture is a biblically sound doctrine. In fact, the English words Rapture and Raptured actually are derived from the Latin verb rapio (catch up or take away), and rapio is used in the Latin Vulgate Bible (also referred to as The Vulgate).
The point here is that many of America’s English words, like Rapture and Raptured, and etc., are derived from words found in the Latin Vulgate Bible-the most commonly used translation of the Holy Bible. St Jerome’s late 4th-century A.D. revised Latin translation of the old Latin Biblical Texts became The Vulgate, and The Vulgate was used over 1,000 years before the Protestant Reformation started! In essence, no other Holy Bible translation has been used longer than the Latin Vulgate Bible, and that includes the highly promoted Authorized King James Version (KJV)!
The Harpazo / Rapture is very Real and very True its just that the Pre Trib Rapture is a Fat Lie that goes against all that Jesus and Paul Taught the Church!
No Man of God in Scripture Taught that Fat Pre Trib LIE!
@@RaptureofSaints Ok so you're saying a Blood bought Church is going to go through God's Wrath when he became flesh to shed his blood for those that would be bought by his blood so that they would not experience Eternal Wrath in hell . Makes a lot a sense ... So the "yo-yo" rapture must be the real deal when Christ comes at the end of the Tribulation to catch us up in the clouds just to land back on the ground soon after . Yeah ok.... It's called Jacobs trouble for a reason . Jacobs secondary name is Israel , you can translate it to 'Israels trouble. God's plan for The Church is different from the Jews and gentiles . God is a divider not a uniter . Read you're Bible and divide the word correctly comparing scripture with scripture and you will get correct doctrine . The Bible is it's best interpreter and does not need help from anyone to interpret . I'm sorry you are hopeless when it comes to this subject I pray that God would show you that this post trib doctrine is indeed false . Not your fault entirely but whoever are your mentors, and spiritual leaders need to reconsider how they study the Bible . God bless, shalom .
@@giannidesir3643 Have you ever Studied the Greek Word that Paul used in 1 Thessalonians 5:9?
If you have you would KNOW that Paul did NOT say the Greek Word THUMOS NOR Thlipsis but he actually chose to use the Greek Word "ORGE" a Specific Greek Word that Jesus also chose to use in extremely Specific places in Revelation! Jesus DECLARED in Revelation that the "ORGE" does NOT ever begin UNTIL sometime (AFTER) the Events are Seen in the Sun and moon and Stars which we all KNOW are only ever seen After the Tribulation has ended!
Jesus made it Clear that the Day of "ORGE" does NOT begin UNTIL all of the Armies are Gathered at Armageddon!
Jesus made it 100% Clear that He is PRESENT so as to Trample the Wine Press of His "ORGE"
The TRUTH is that No believer of any Kind is appointed to "ORGE" because we will all Partake in the FIRST RESURRECTION and we will be Raptured to Meet Him on that day when Satan is Bound and Jesus destroys that Man of Sin and Begins to Trample the Wine Press of His "ORGE" against ALL that are Gathered against Jesus!
None of them will be able to stand on that day BUT we will be WITH Jesus in IMMORTAL Bodies!
Thats the TRUTH about the "ORGE"
The Pre Tribbers are the Ones saying that Tribulation saints ARE appointed to Wrath, thats a LIE!
No BELIEVER is appointed to "ORGE" as we will all Partake in the FIRST RESURRECTION before the "ORGE" begins!
The 7 Bowls of THUMOS are NOT the "ORGE"!
It is YOU that is WRONG not Jesus and Paul!
GO and STUDY Scripture before you Promote a Pre Trib LIE!
@@giannidesir3643 GO and DO a Study for Two Weeks on the Greek Word "ORGE" and then when you know what you are talking about then we can Discuss the Pre Trib LIE that goes against ALL that Jesus and Gabriel and Paul Prophesied!
@@RaptureofSaints those three Greek words are all nouns and other than being masculine and feminine they mean the same thing. You know what The Kingdom Gospel is?
The speaker is skipping some history about how Darby came about the Pre-trib Rapture view. Darby was attending Edward Irving's church prior to 1830 where Edward Irving was preaching a pre-trib rapture theory. So most likely that is where Darby got the idea, and there was a magazine printed in 1830 authored by Darby with that pre-trib rapture idea in it. Prior to the Irving church influence, Darby held to a post-tribulational view. (see Dave McPherson's documented research)
The title about Darby is misleading. Skip ahead to 19:40 for Darby
Simeón - Lucas 2:29 Ahora, Señor, despides a tu siervo en paz,
Conforme a tu palabra;
30 Porque han visto mis ojos tu salvación,
31 La cual has preparado en presencia de todos los pueblos;
32 Luz para revelación a los gentiles,
Y gloria de tu pueblo Israel
Ana -Lucas 2:38 Esta, presentándose en la misma hora, daba gracias a Dios, y hablaba del niño a todos los que esperaban la Redención en Jerusalén💜💜💜
Darby started his dispensation theory while reading and studying the Bible when home from his accident in 1827. The McDonald story took place over three years later and historical evidence verifies her vision was anything but historicist post anti -Christ rapture that had been around. There is also no evidence from Darby or his associates being able influenced by this. One of his associates that later opposed Darby still asserted that Darby established his dispensation theory in 1827.
You have explained something to me: why do they always call the pre-trib rapture a "secret rapture"? After all, two men working in a field, two women grinding corn: one is taken and the other remains. How could such an event remain secret for long? The only thing "secret" about it, is that no one but the Father knows when it will be, like the second coming that comes afterm. You answered this question: it is called a secet rapture in order to equivocate it with the imaginary, invisible, _secret_ rapture that had already occured, of Charles Taze Russell, upon which he based Jehovah''s Witnesses.
But pre-trib rapture has nothing to do with Russell's invention. It simply believes that the Rapture of 1 Thessalonians 4 happens before the time of great tribulation Jesus spoke of, the one that is unlike any time was before, or ever will be again.
And instead of attributing Darby's offense at the politicization of Christianity to Irish rebellion against the British, why not because of "my kingdom is not of this world", which Jesus told Pilate?
WELL STATED 🎯
@@GitFiddler I believe that the Bible teaches a pre-tribulation Rapture. The trumpets are one of the things that cause doubt, but hey are not the same series of trumpets. If prettib is incorrect, I have nothing to lose, because millions have looked for the Rapture in their own time, and died in faith. We ALWAYS have to be ready for accept that we may die for the testimony of the Lord. Jesus said that "in this world", we "SHALL have tribulation", but "be of good cheer, for I have overcome the world". The ones dying in faith includes the believers in Jesus who are killed in Matthew 24:9, a good 11 verses before verse 21, where Jesus described the time of "great tribulation", unlike any time ever was or ever will be, again. That corresponds to the time Jesus told us to pray that we be _"counted worthy"_ not to go through. I am comforted, when fellow believers quote, or I read 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18, just as verse 18 says. We are "not appointed unto wrath": there's that. The Great Tribulation (Matthew's 24:21) includes the wrath of God, and we are not appointed unto wrath. Elements like the ruthless persecution of believers (ones who believe after the Rapture) are a continuation of the devil pouring out his wrath, since he knows his time is short..The believers being killed in Matthew 24:9, before 24:21, are experiencing the wrath of Satan. That has to include the ones dying in places like Nigeria or North Korea, now, because why would Jesus not mean them? There's little doubt that we will have to go through things like that in the western, "developed" world. So pretrib Rapture doesn't teach that we're without tribulation, only that we don't go through that extreme time, including God's wrath, in 24:21.
I believe that the early Christians believed in the 1 Thessalonians 4 Rapture as the "blessed hope", as we do. That was before the takeover by Rome, when the practice of allegorizing virtually everything that was formerly interpreted literally took over. There are allegorical stories and figures in the Bible, but there is also that which is literal. Then, when the Reformation came along, and even more importantly, the availability of translated, printed, affordable Bibles, it meant that people could read the Bible on their own, and allegorical interpretation began to wane, to be toppled by Bible believers, and many suppressed doctrines began their journey back to being noticed, then widely believed. Post-trib was replaced for many by pre-trib, and the amillenialism of the Catholic church was replaced by belief in a literal millennial reign of Jesus on earth.
For his work in recovering the doctrine of the Rapture, Darby has been lied about without conscience. Look up the article from the pretrib organization in England, available for free download at Berean Call. For instance, Darby is always said to have gotten pretrib Rapture from a girl prophetess in Scotland, but he did not believe her "prophecy" was from God when he heard her. And she did not teach pretrib Rapture in her prophecy, but a post trib one, after the Tribulation puts us through a trial that determines whether we make it to heaven or not! She said the Tribulation was "sent to try the saints". She didn't teach pretrib Rapture at all, but that didn't mean that the hatchet job filmmakers of "Good Fight ministries" didn't accuse Darby of getting what she didn't even teach, from her, as usual, which is peculiarly cynically lying for people supposedly dedicated to revealing the truth. So I continue to believe in pretrib Rapture, until I am clearly shown otherwise.
I’m just curious, do modern day ‘brethren’ (a.k.a. Gospel hall assemblies) believe that the sermon on the mount is for the ‘dispensation’ of the millennium, and not for believers today? I admire the simplicity of their gatherings, but I am very bothered by dispensationalism.
Modern Brethren differ a bit among themselves, so no simple answer can be given. Frankly, the view that the Gospels, including the Sermon on the Mount, are to be viewed as applicable to the 'kingdom,' and not to Christian believers today is intuitively preposterous to most sober minded believers.
@@GoreBruce I absolutely agree!! Thanks for responding. I really appreciate it
You are aware that Wendell was a minister of the Advent Christian Church? He was not part of the Sabbatarian movement that would become the Seventh-day Adventist Church, organized by May of 1863. FYI, Russell was 17 or 18 when he met Wendell. He had a clothing store at the age of 15 that was run with his father.
+Karl Wagner Thanks very much for the clarification!
I see a Darby bible version on my phone, isn't that something. What I find interesting is that when you address the different tribulation topics, all of a sudden Christian's loose their identity in Christ at least for a moment and here come the fear fangs and then the topic becomes all about whose the true Christian and mud slinging if not both sides ,definitely one side. It's rare to be able to talk about it with a Christian without them falling into the flesh and then therefore becoming extremely defensive.
For me it's not like conflict isn't to be expected, that's human nature after all
Now is any event of a dispute that which we call the flesh? Maybe, but I'd say that's probably not the meaning of the flesh according to epistles
What I'm getting at is sometimes the sense of concern may be to expose weaknesses in some party, or maybe for another revelation, no complete awareness is ours after all as we're waiting for everything to be revealed
And even there are many instructions throughout the bible warranting elders and brothers/sisters to express concern about practices and beliefs (I'm not saying that anybody knows/does the orthodoxy and orthopraxy that God would have us know/do)
However when concern is there I don't think the concern has a clear direction always, maybe one or more needs to feel into with prayer and deliberation
Nor do I think a person can certainly feel sure of where the problem lies anyway even after prayer and deliberation
Like indeed we're to seek and find the kingdom, but that doesn't mean the answers we seek always expose themselves here while in time/bodies blighted with sin nature
As for where the concern is coming from, it can be in the person they were initially concerned by, it can be in themselves after considerations (usually hard for most to accept this) , it can be in both parties, or a problem in the locality or a greater problem in the world, something of spiritual realms, etc.
What really caused the concern? And what teachings (if any) are there to address that concern? These are questions and considerations an individual can keep in mind to have a healthier and spiritually fruitful relationship with concern, one that should be considered before opening their mouths and being conceited in such means
Especially before thinking they have some agenda to rebuke somebody accompanied with the long list of refutations to recite as so many do
I call it philosophical conservatism, that is it's better to assume there's always flaws in every thing you experience and think therefore you won't glorify anything unworthy of glory, and whatever you do right it's only a measure compared to God's immeasurability so let God qualify one's actions not man
Man's best assumption is that he's wicked and only God can make good happen, it's sourced from Him not ourselves, I'm just a conduit worthy of no credit, and I've been relieved of any debt and so I freely serve and give to emulate my savior whom I will freely follow and cannot know hereafter any separation from Him
I remember a long time ago before understanding these precepts how I failed to have even as much integration of these in my walk
In my life my mother has become something of a new age proponent, years ago it was especially difficult to see her take such an identity/worldview on..
I was initially very concerned and thought I had every kind of advantage with our lord Jesus to make her know her folly
Well it turns out that with even as much as I indeed have fairly-well figured out, and as many fruits of the Spirit I portray, it had no clear regards in her because none of these really can make any change in her
I remembered that only Christ can reach her on His timing
I also remembered that our nature is flawed even after knowing our savior, let seasons be seasons
I've come to believe that individuals are progressively sanctified throughout one's repentance, study and practice, but as much as we're directed towards perfection I don't believe anybody's ever been so anointed (other than Jesus) that they've perfected anything let alone moral living
I believe it's the false sense that one has perfected anything in this world that leads one into the flesh and thus satanic lifestyles proliferate
It doesn't matter whether it's doctrines, practices or statuses, these thoughts that make them put themselves on high is the biggest problem
I guess I am holding to the perspective that it's Progress-Over-Perfection in all matters and of all manners while in this world
While eschatologically speaking, it's when we know the fullness of Christ's Zoē (the life of the Spirit) can be where the justification, complete sanctification and glorification can take place
I guess what I'm speaking to is the two vessels, one vessel is where inspiration comes from Satan's taproot and even believers pull crap from there and what is being stored up will be repeated before God, this is like how Paul said he still fails daily
The other vessel is when we're inSpired by the True and Holy God! And this stores up spiritual profit that multiplies Christ's blessings by many folds
We want to at the furthest mitigate the former vessel and maximize our lives towards Christ's vessel, but it's clear to me that being too certain about anything is the slippery slope that makes conflict tend towards violations
So therefore we strive! And we recognize our failures, and we never attribute more to our successes than who we know can do all things infinite
I hope these words make up for something useful, I'm only trying to help others recognize the pitfalls before falling in where I and many others have collapsed into far too many times
For anybody can be too certain of their interpretations and the teachings that twist the intended meaning of scriptures, for we've all mistakenly held to such things
- Your Quality Apologist
Fascinating to hear how today’s modern belief systems evolved.
I would be curious where you got the info that Joseph Smith declared himself been a king. That is something I have never heard before despite many contacts I have since years with Mormons
The best biographical treatment of Joseph Smith remains "No Man Knows My History" (Fawn M. Brodie).
www.amazon.com/No-Man-Knows-My-History/dp/0679730540/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1473472294&sr=8-1&keywords=no+man+knows+my+history
Great book, I am an ex Mormn read it several times!
Where is number #1 in this series?
Please see Playlist "Apocalypse in Space and Time" which is on my UA-cam channel.
@@GoreBruce thank you mr gore, God bless you and your efforts
the begiing of wisdom is fear of the lord
Also the Watchtower was originally "Zion's Watchtower", not "God's Watchtower".
+Aloysius MacGlumpfer Thank you. You are quite correct.
Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:
1 Thessalonians Chapter 4
16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
I now understand why we who are believers who have become born again will be caught up to meet the Lord in the air its because God has poured out His Spirit on us who have through His Grace repented and believed the gospel of His Son Jesus Christ it can't be more clear we will be taken up into His kingdom by the time the rapture happens according to these verses in the Scriptures.
what about the rebuttals that show that dispensationalism goes as far back as to 1st and 2nd century AD?
like the direct disciples of Peter (or another apostle) teaching it?
I heard both sides, but this side addressing the rebuttal, I have not yet heard. Are they lying?
The only non-canonical documents dating to the first century are Clements letter to the church in Corinth, and possibly the Didache. Neither addresses eschatological issues. In the second century there were some who subscribed to a pre-millennial return of Christ (e.g., Justin Martyr), but pre-millennialism is not the same as Dispensationism. All Dispensationalists re pre-millennial, but not all pre-millennialists are Dispensationalists.
Have you ever done a video on William Branham and the post-war (WWII) healing revivals? Oral Roberts was a part of it as well
Sorry. Haven't taken on that part of 20th century Christian history.
As far as Joseph Smith goes, the church he started broke up rather spectacularly after he was out of the picture. The offshoots have differing views about what really happened. As I've tried to research this subject, I've found a patchwork story that is more convoluted the more I look into it. I'm of the opinion that Joseph Smith didn't do or say even half of the things written about him and that the LDS church history was rewritten to match the worldview of people like Brigham Young, John Bennett, and Elisa Snow. I'm certainly no apologist for the mormons, but I just want people to keep in mind that their history is very complicated and there are many more people to learn about than just Joseph.
I do agree that the mormon church survived in Utah because of Brigham Young's organizational skills, but only despite his harshness and debauchery. If the church had prophets, then Brigham was not one of them.
I am fed up of all the isms that have suddenly appeared. I have known my Lord and saviour Jesus Christ since I was sixteen, I am now sixty eight. Why is it people who invent these ism,s cannot just accept Jesus our saviour and messiah, God our father the hol y ghost, and God's word the bible. If you don't understand God's words pray for understanding, pray for wisdom and God's knowledge it's easy. If you are walking true faithfully and believing God will answer all your prayers and give you the answers he feels are necessary to your question. Then you will know and believe in terms gospel. Try it as it does work.
What series is this a part of?
It is part of a playlist called Apocalypse in Space and Time available on Bruce Gore's channel.
ua-cam.com/video/rTqxCTu2OjM/v-deo.html
I love these techings
Scofield abandoned his wife and he remarried within a year of his wife divorcing him. If, as an aspect of his conversion and necessary repentance, he attempted to reconcile and love his wife as he was commanded to do, I might have some more respect for him in spite of his dispensationalism.
what about lacunza and the origen of the raptura ? lacunza or margareth macdonald? are they or not related?
they were not around when the Rapture catching up was taught in the 3rd 4th centuries.
@@JordanWallace-nb4id can you please give evidence of it?
@@JordanWallace-nb4id ...evidence that the rupture was tought in those centuries
Joseph Smith....."Lucy Harris smart smart smart!!! Martin Harris dumb.... " Oh how the South Park episode just keeps creeping in lol lol
Darby would have many seances to invoke spirits in the castle he lived in
Do you have a source for that?
@@GoreBruce I stand corrected, it was his family that was deep in the occult, and did seances.
Final Day, by Richard D Wiles
Pages 52-54, but Darby had close relationships to freemasonry and his closest friends and disciple was a spy for the Crown, Robert Anderson, a high ranking freemason.freemasonry.
@@GoreBruce and Scofield was a con artist out of prison for forgery, he would pretend he was a wealthy cotton plantation owner.
He saw flashing dollar signs in Darby's theology and inserted them as notes in a bible, thus tricking evangelicals into believing it was the inspired word of God.
Now seminary students everywhere quote the heresies of a con artist.
Praise d Lord. Where can one get the source of that information. Thx. God bless u
There are many good sources. One you might check is 'The Puritan Hope,' by Iain H. Murry, and the sources he cites in his bibliography. Thanks for your interest!
The person God use him as revival .sometime they didn't know everything ?
God bless John Nelson Darby. I will look for the Scofield Reference Bible. Thank you for the information.
Are Bruce's eyes closed all the time?
The early church fathers believed in "dispensations". Darby may have been the one to promote the teaching, but all through church history, especially the early church fathers, the church believed in "dispensations". Some believed in 4 others 5, but this is not a NEW belief "system" or a new way of studying the scriptures.
Thank you. Please provide specific citations.
I believe he's talking about the convenants God makes with Noah, Abraham, Moses, David, and lastly Christ establishing the Apostolic Church. It mirrors the human microcosms of family, tribe, race, nation, and finally all humanity.
dispensation means to give something, not a period of time.
Moses was given or dispensed Law
Christ gave us or dispensed GRACE.
It appears that three people replied to your comment, but the replies won't be displayed to let me read them. But belief in dispensationalism and the rapture before Darby is what I'm looking for. I wish you could direct me in my search.
@@ChaplainBobWalkerBTh to dispense to certain people.
Is he Pat Sajak's Uncle? Man they look alike!
3 of the greatest heresies being taught in Evangelical Churches today:
Dispensationalism, Zionism, and Futurism.
Sean Moore The Trinity is the greatest and most powerful heresy ever imposed upon the truth.
The Bible clearly states that 1) the Father is God, 2) Jesus is God, and 3) the Holy Spirit is God. The word "Trinity" is just an explanation of what we find in scripture. I would recommend praying and considering the following:
1) John 20:28 - Thomas calls Jesus "God" and isn't rebuked, John 1:1 - states that the Word (Jesus) IS God, and Isaiah 43:10 - there is only one God. There are countless other scriptures, but there's no other way it can make sense.
2) 1 Corinthians 2:10-12 - If the Son of God is equally eternal with the Father, as John 1:1-3 makes clear that he is, then so is the Holy Spirit equally eternal with them both, because, according to Romans 8:9-11, the Spirit of Christ is one and the same with the Spirit of God.
3) Matthew 28:19 - notice the singular use of the word "name" instead of using "names".
Why should anyone believe what the Bible says?
I believe it because it is the living word of our Creator. What causes you not to believe it?
Replacement Theology - that the Church is the "New Israel" is the biggest error
excellent...well done...
classicjukebox Many thanks
JN Darby started the exclusive brethren and started dispensationalism.
To suggest that an ecstatic utterance at an Irving event planted the idea of a Rapture in Darby's head and formed the basis of his eschatology is patently false. Oft repeated by those who prefer CliffNote shortcuts to genuine historical and biblical research. Go to the primary sources and read!
This was a great review of those early days of dispensationalism, but if Darby or those around him had know how to rightly divide the scriptures, a lot of this confusion could have been prevented! One huge fact that is not widely taught today even is that nothing written in Acts even applies to us believers today because the chosen nations' prophecy was still "on the table" until it was taken away at Acts 28:28-31 KJV. That means that 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 was not a prophecy that even applied to us believers saved by the revelation of the mystery (Ephesians 3:9) - NOT by Old Testament prophecy as the Jews and Greeks in Paul's churches were. The 1 Thess prophecy was of the hoped-for second coming of the Messiah to his church that would have gone into the kingdom he would have brought with him!
The Greeks in Paul's churches were not representative of us saved under the mystery today; they were actually fulfilling prophecies such as Deuteronomy 32:21 KJV (provoking ministry to the Jews), and Isaiah 60:3 (the Greeks' inclusion in the olive tree of Israel's blessings and a guaranteed place in their kingdom IF it had materialized which we know it didn't).
So, in short, the "pre-tribulational rapture," is a fallacy and even if it wasn't, it would not apply to us!
Hey have you heard of Margret E. Barber?
Long before Darby, Ephraim The Syrian taught pre-trib rapture
.
Ephraim (306 AD - 373 AD) was made a deacon in the church in Syria in 338 and later became the bishop of Nisibis. Although he was made a “saint” in the Roman Catholic Church, he was not involved in Catholicism and did not even live in the Roman Empire until the final years of his life. His book’s one reference to the rapture is very compelling:
In his work, On The Last Times 2, he wrote:
“We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated), and there is not other which remains, except the advent of the wicked one in the completion of the Roman kingdom. Why therefore are we occupied with worldly business, and why is our mind held fixed on the lusts of the world or on the anxieties of the ages? Why therefore do we not reject every care of earthly actions and prepare ourselves for the meeting of the Lord Christ, so that he may draw us from the confusion, which overwhelms all the world? Believe you me, dearest brother, because the coming (advent) of the Lord is nigh, believe you me, because the end of the world is at hand, believe me, because it is the very last time.
Or do you not believe unless you see with your eyes? See to it that this sentence be not fulfilled among you of the prophet who declares: “Woe to those who desire to see the day of the Lord!” For all the saints and elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins. And so, brothers most dear to me, it is the eleventh hour, and the end of the world comes to the harvest, and angels, armed and prepared, hold sickles in their hands, awaiting the empire of the Lord. And we think that the earth exists with blind infidelity, arriving at its downfall early. Commotions are brought forth, wars of diverse peoples and battles and incursions of the barbarians threaten, and our regions shall be desolated, and we neither become very much afraid of the report nor of the appearance, in order that we may at least do penance; because they hurl fear at us, and we do not wish to be changed, although we at least stand in need of penance for our actions!”
With a sense of urgency and strong warning, Ephraim writes that the end times are upon this world and could start at any moment. This text very clearly states the saints and elect of God, all born again believers in The Lord Jesus Christ, will be “taken to the Lord” before the Great Tribulation. Ephraim also identifies the Old Testament “Day of The Lord” and the end times Great tribulation as the same event (in line with the teachings of the Beginning and End Rapture Series). Ephraim quotes Amos 5:18 which says: “Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light.”
The point he makes is that a Christian should know the Day of The Lord is coming. In the first part of the passage Ephraim notes that:
“We ought to understand thoroughly therefore, my brothers, what is imminent or overhanging. Already there have been hunger and plagues, violent movements of nations and signs, which have been predicted by the Lord, they have already been fulfilled (consummated)” And not only that but that true Christians will be taken away before it starts.
Here he is describing the first 3 of the first 4 seals of Revelation 6 - wars, famines and plagues. These are the same end times signs Jesus Christ describes in Matthew 24:
And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. - Matthew 24:3-8.
Jesus describes these events as “the beginning of sorrows.” He also says that when these things come to pass “the end is not yet.” Ephraim’s writing agrees with this interpretation as he says those same events have been “fulfilled (consummated)” in his day, but it was still not the actual Great Tribulation.
Ephraim in very strong language warns the reader not to be consumed with the cares of the world because the world in its current form, is coming to an end. As the Second Advent or Coming of The Lord Jesus Christ grows near, believers are to look to Heaven and set their hearts on pleasing God. It is clear that Ephraim distinguishes the Second Coming of Christ from the rapture, placing the Rapture before the Great Tribulation to come.
The Early Church Believed In The Rapture
Who invented the Rapture idea? | What did Church fathers say about the Rapture? | John Darby did NOT invent the rapture
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The ancient writings are clear - the belief in the Rapture has existed since the days of the Apostles.
There is no question that there was a belief in the Rapture among the church fathers and they taught it with strong language and scriptural support. In terms of the timing of the Rapture, the early church fathers placed it before the end times Day of The Lord/Great Tribulation. The writings of early saints in the church are not Scripture and should not be treated on the same level of the Bible. These writings also do not “prove” that the pre-Great Tribulation Rapture is correct. Only rightly divided Scripture from the Bible can determine if a specific belief is accurate or in error. But the writings of church fathers can serve as useful commentaries (just as we use Bible commentaries today in our studies) and certainly prove that the Rapture doctrine existed well before John Darby and has been a part of Christian belief since the earliest days of the Apostles.
The rapture is the catching up of the church. Post Tribulation believe in the Rapture. We just call it the Second Coming . Not making Jesus come twice.
I find no reason to leave Covenant Theology to accept Darby's guess.
@@samuelwilliams1559 The rapture is for the dead in Christ and the believing saint who will be caught up to meet the Lord in the AIR. They will got to Heaven with the Lord. John ch. 14 v 1-3. The saved will be taken and the lost left behind.
The second coming at the end of the tribulation period is when the Lord Jesus comes as Son of Man WITH His glorified saints to the earth. In the Lord's comments the lost are taken and the saved are left behind and enter the earthly Kingdom reign with Christ. The rapture is the Christian church. The second coming is the jewish elect remnant context.
The rapture is the Lord coming HIMSELF for His bride. It is for the satisfaction of His love to take His bride to heaven or the Father's house. The second coming is Christ coming to defeat the Beast and Antichrist, judge the nations and deliver the remnant of Israel and set up His earthly kingdom.
They are just NOT the same event and accomplish totally different things.
This proof text has been widely discredited.
@@smeatonlighthouse4384 Your understanding is based on three points. First that the Bible is to be understood using Dispensationalist teaching from John Darby late 20th century. Second that the church is not Israel. Because the 70 weeks are not over and only 69 have passed then a gap and the seventieth week is future. And third that the rapture is not the Second Coming
I don't find any of the Three supported by the Bible. There is no secret rapture. The church is constantly being persecuted.
Matthew 24 is correct.
Most people do not know the foundation of this new theory from Darby.
@@Hebrew42Day it certainly hasn't been discredited.
The Rapture - first digit
The Second Coming of Christ - second digit
1. Christ comes FOR His saints to take them back to His Father’s House (John 14:1-6)
1. Christ comes WITH His saints to rule the world. (Revelation 19:11-21; Rev. 20:1-6)
2. A movement from earth to heaven. (John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18)
2. A movement from heaven to earth. (Matt. 24:29-31; Rev. 19:11-21)
3. Living believers get “resurrection” bodies. (1 Cor. 15:50-53; 1 Thess. 4:17)
3. No “resurrection” bodies for the living. (Those who have died during the Tribulation will be resurrected - Rev. 20:4, 6.)
4. All living saints go to heaven. (John 14:1-3; 1 Thess. 4:13-18)
4. All living saints remain on earth. (Matt. 25:31-46)
5. The world is unjudged at Christ's coming and continues in sin.
(Rev.6:1-18:24). [The entire world of people who survive the Tribulation will be judged at the Second Coming (Matt. 25:31-46).]
5. The world is judged, and righteousness fills the earth! (Isa. 66:15-24; Zech. 14:1-21; Matt. 25:31-46)
6. Delivers Christians from coming wrath. (1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-5:9)
6. Relieves believers who survived wrath. (Matt. 24:21-22; 25:31-40, 46; 2 Thess. 1:5-10; Rev. 6:9-11; Rev. 13:7-10)
7. Imminent event. Could happen any time, because no signs are given. (John 14:1-3; 1 Cor. 15:50-55; 1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:1)
7. Preceded by many signs. (Matt. 24:1-31; Rev. 6:1-18:24)
8. Truth revealed only in the New Testament. (John 14:1-3;
1 Cor. 15:50-55; 1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:1)
8. Predicted in both Old and New Testaments. (Psalm 2:4-9; 110:1-7; Isa.
59:15-21; 60:1-2, 19; 63:1-6; Joel 3:1-3, 9-17; Zech. 14:1-19; Matt. 24:1-25:46; 2 Thess. 1:7-9; Rev. 19:11-21)
9. Affects only the saints. (John 14:1-3; 1 Cor. 15:50-55;
1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9; 2 Thess. 2:1)
9. Affects both believers and unbelievers. (2 Thess. 1:5-10)
10. Satan is not bound and is very active. (2 Thess. 2:9; Rev. 12:9, 12)
10. Satan is bound for 1000 years. (Rev. 20:1-6)
11. Only the Church benefits. (1 Thess. 1:10; 4:13-18; 5:9)
11. Redeemed Israelis and Gentiles are the main beneficiaries.
(Matt. 25:1-46)
12. Is followed by a seven-year period known as the Tribulation (Rev. 7:14) and The Day of the Lord (1 Thess. 4:13-13; 1 Thess. 5:1-9; Rev. 6:1-18:24)
12. Is followed by Christ’s 1000-year reign (the Millennium). (Rev. 19:11-20:6)
13. No angels are said to do any collecting or sorting. (An archangel speaks or shouts, but that is the only mention of an angel
1 Thess. 4:16.)
13. Angels are dispatched to collect the righteous and sort out the wicked. (Matt. 13:40-43, 49-50; Rev. 19:14, 19)
Small correction: Oliver Cowdry and Sidney Rigdon....Kirtland, Ohio
Deb Delves Thank you.
How can anybody think that Paul was talking about a rapture out of trouble? Jesus said "Take up your cross and follow Me". Saul/Paul was a self appointed apostle, not hand chosen.
The Time of Trouble is not just any Trouble, it is God's Wrath being poured out on them that dwell on the earth. God has promised to those who trust in His Son that they will not suffer under the Wrath of God at any time. So, you're just plain wrong, and stupidly so. You need to read the Bible before you shoot your filthy ignorant mouth off and blaspheme the saints in heaven
Revelation 4:4
4 And round about the throne were four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.
Who are these guys in the white robes? Whence came they? I wonder what sort of drivel you can come up with.
@@jamesedwards.1069 Get lost with your John Darby religion! Saul/Paul was a murderer. There is no "rapture" out of suffering. Tell your garbage to the apostles who were tortured and murdered and all the saints who were persecuted for their faith. You blaspheme the Holy Spirit and pervert the bible.
@@elaine1034 Thanks for proving my point about you guys by blaspheming Paul the Apostle. You might as well finish by blaspheming all the saints in heaven.
+@@jamesedwards.1069 There were 2 Paul's. And how come you have 66 books in your bible instead of the original 73? You like that #6 ???
lots info , I enjoy it
While researching biblical support for the pre-tribulation rapture, it dawned on me that the root nature of the doctrine is concerned only with self-preservation. It demonstrates a complete lack of interest or care in the fate of those "Left Behind". Therefore on that basis alone, it could not be of God, as His great plan would never involve or promote selfishness.
Quite an insight! Thanks.
The Rapture of the Church starts the period of Jacob's Trouble and end's the church age or the Age of Grace. Nothing else makes any sense, so take your opinion and stick it where the sun don't shine.
I believe in the pre-tribulation rapture and I'm quite concerned with those who will be left behind. Because some people abuse a truth or use it selfishly doesn't make it any less true. It appears that you're judging a doctrine with an ad hominem approach, which isn't a good approach. There are valid arguments to be raised concerning the pre-trib rapture, but yours doesn't strike me as one of them.
Exactly - It's totally a contrast from what the Gospel, and Apostles epistles warn us of.
Where from scripture can you back up that there are two second comings? Revelations states the Saints will meet Him in the sky. You believe that will happen twice? Or that Christ will return _before_ the tribulations? before the man of sin is revealed?
But I heard presbetarians follow child baptism. If so how will you justify in the light of New Testament teachings.
Very little of the information given about Joseph Smith was accurate. I like Bruce and appreciate his work but this was lazy research.
I don’t think that was the main point he was trying to get across. To give a biography life of a Joseph Smith
1x(7/22/22)…1….5:00…..No scripture or no mention of Darby in the 1st 12 minutes
Imperial Rome's attitude toward religion was Plato's "noble lie". The emperors certainly didn't believe in the reality of Rome's gods, or any other, but they believed it is necessary to get the whole populace of ruled countries on the same page, so they could be easily ruled. People are somewhat shaped by the times they live in. When Rome, interested in power, not salvation, looked at the world they ruled, it must have seemed to them that all the people who were moving to these un-Roman, new religions were more alike than they were different. Some of them surely decided that the new religions were brothers under the skin, more alike than different, but we know that faith in Jesus has nothing to do with the mystery religions or with gnosticism, that these beliefs have no fellowship with Christ. Likewise, people like Darby and Scofield had _nothing_ to do with Miller, Ellen White, Charles Taze Russell, or Joseph Smith, etc, except in the eyes of those who stand to lose when people lose interest in the external, ritualized power structure the objectors are most comfortable with.
The Holy Spirit is in favor of orderliness (and self-control), but not just any kind of order or control. Jesus expressed hatred of Nicolaitanism, twice, in Revelation 2 & 3. A hierarchical system brings a kind of order, but that fact didn't keep Jesus (and by implication, the Holy Spirit) from being disgusted by it, and that would be for a reason, maybe for many reasons. But apparently the kind of order Nicolaitan hierarchy produced was not good; it was not anything Jesus wanted for His church.
Any kind of time of true "awakening" to Christ, is by definition, going to be in the lives of people whom the status quo churches, prior to that, failed to reveal Christ to them. All the benefit to existing churches of an awakening owes to that sad fact, but even more so to the fact that the Holy Spirit is getting the truth to them, now, something which the status quo religious bureaucracies never did. That the newly awakened believers were too interested in an experience of God, in the eyes of the church politicians, would not be considered a problem by Jesus, who promised the believing babies that God could be experientially known, the way the sheep of the good Shepherd know His comforting voice. This true light from God had nothing to do with the darkness of counterfeitors like White, Russell or Smith, other than the alikeness borne by people from the same place and time.
Also, thanks for the lesson on Darby. Interesting stuff!