5D Diplomacy With Multiverse Time Travel
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- Опубліковано 22 вер 2021
- 5D Diplomacy With Multiverse Time Travel. That's it. That's the video.
Code on GitHub: github.com/Oliveriver/5d-dipl...
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To my utter disbelief, I managed to program a multiversal time travelling version of Diplomacy. Well, a very simplified Diplomacy. But hey, I've shown a 5D Diplomacy game can exist. As a maths student, that's enough for me. The rest I leave as an exercise for the viewer.
MUSIC
Monkeys Spinning Monkeys
Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com) - Ігри
Pinning this before more people point it out: at 7:06 a blue army moves to a region where there was a bounce in the past. I decided this should be allowed as the space was ultimately left empty, but I admit it's up to interpretation.
(Also with the way I implemented order resolution, it would have been extremely painful to change it. Maybe that was why I didn’t…)
EDIT: Also at 11:18 an orange army isn’t copied to the future board. I told you there were bugs.
Yeah, that's painful. If you want to make this playable maybe time travel can give a support order into the past (the the expense of a move in the present.) You should only be able to do one of these because the branching will be crazy.
Yeah, I think your general test proved the point, but I think the unit should still bounce along with the rest.
Following Diplomacy rules at least, you could aupoirt yourself, or in a more complicated map, move to a cell that was free, and have multiple units in that world that way.
I think this is the most interesting element for diplomacy, because often the person in the lead can't pull out a full victory, because they have a few units that can't get past the draw line, but now they could move into the past with that otherwise useless unit, risking losing control over the current timeline to buff an alternate one.
Well anyways I hope someone programs a full fledged version of this, it would be interesting to give a go.
5d is already complicated and theirs not a limit in complexity of games but the patience of the players, like stelaris, i dont know how people keep playing that game
5D stellaris when?
@@pedrolmlkzk kkkkkkkk Time to go crazy
I'll never forget that time that the Soviets lost ww2 in 1945 due to their country collapsing in the 90's
wait but the soviets were our "allies" for that war...oh shoot
Well if I wanted to overanalyse my joke, the way my joke happens is that Doctor Emmet Brown's body is found in 1985 along with his research, and there's a time race echoing the earlier space race between the US and the Soviets. Eventually both sides are successful and work out how time travel works, but do not immediately do anything major. Eventually Israeli and Taiwanese lobbying is succesful though and the US leads a military force to the 1930's, whom funnels resources and modern technology to the major powers in another timeline. The USSR and China are very concerned as they are left out of this developments, which leads to the USSR being concerned about being outnumbered and outresourced across multiple timelines, and USSR budgets are strained due to speculators shorting oil, due to concerns of trans-time oil pipelines being setup in multiple Saudi Arabias. Due to this they plan to funnel resources and weapons to the past Soviet Union to prevent it being overthrown. Due to no pro-Nazi powers having time travel technology, Hitler does not have a good time and WW2 ends in approximately 3 weeks with him captured. The wests rejection of present day borders,although they do allow the past Soviet union to keep existing, in the peace deal infuriates the Soviets, whom set up another timeline in 1945, in order to balance against the wests territorial acquisitions in timeline 2. Timeline 3 has the west following them, and tensions have now boiled into a proxy war with past Soviet union and past western allies meaning that timeline 3's ww2 has technically turned into a 3 way. Around this time the present Soviet union collapses causing timeline 3's Soviet Union to lose its imports of modern weaponry, and leading to its collapsing in some sort of operation unthinkable knockoff. World history plays out similarly to the real world initially when time travel is just an expensive national prestige project, however eventually it becomes a massive industry when perfected, cratering land prices, and provides infinite raw materials.Also actual dinosaurs are used in Jurassic park.
Imagine if the US sends their nuke back in time to the beginning of WW2
I don't know if it quite works in my scenario as the reasoning for going back in time was primarily for these reasons;
Humanitarian - Using a nuclear weapon when conventional arms could end the war almost as quickly and with less bloodshed seems, counterproductive to their humanitarian aims
Economic - Want untapped cheap mineral wealth? Want an endless supply of cheap labor, which you can even dramatically up the living standards of minimizing hypothetical moral quandaries? Want unlimited land? Upping destruction of valuable labor and capital renders both land and other natural resources more difficult to develop and lessens how much money you can make.
National Security/Power politics - Introducing nuclear weapons in a situation means that you might have a bunch of pissed off people if they feel your actions were unjust, as they well might if you nuked a bunch of them several years before any significant crimes against humanity were committed by said nation. You then have to hope that they both don't get nuclear weapons and time travel and send a nuke from 1965 (timeline NAK21#) to 1998 (Original timeline), before there anger cools. Keeping track of or suppressing threats from multiple times , parrallel universes, and multiple places within those times and parrallel universes seems like it would be a nightmare if people were pissed off with you.
I can see them sending nuclear weapons back, but it'd be primarily to stabilize a situation through deterrence or MAD, rather than actually using it.
Ah yes, Red Alert in a nutshell
Oliver: I programmed 5D diplomacy with multidimensional time travel
Also Oliver: I don't know how to program clicking stuff
Well, part of it was programming the 5D Diplomacy logic, and part of it was programming a Java Swing UI. One requires intimate knowledge of obscure, highly technical and occasionally ridiculous rules, and the other is 5D Diplomacy.
@@OliverLugg The pains of making a UI with Java Swing... one of the many reasons why I'm glad that I ditched Java for typescript and python.
Programming the underlying logic is a fun puzzle and often not that much work after you've come up with an elegant solution. Programming UI is often boring and annoying tedium.
@@OliverLugg "Java Swing UI. One requires intimate knowledge of obscure, highly technical and occasionally ridiculous rules"
WTF, don't use a multithreaded UI library.
multidimensional time travel is easier near it , confirmed.
Swing is just the worst possible UI library that ever was. I would rather suggest Windows Forms and C#, its easy, and works, its old and boring, and have none of "modern bullshit" like web development, which makes me hate this profession.
@@monad_tcp While not as easy as windows forms, if you're going to go with C#, WPF is the better option. It can take some getting used to, but if you happen to already be familiar with XML, XAML won't be too hard to pick up. If you don't want to touch the underlying XAML, you can still use drag and drop controls like windows forms. WPF also makes it much easier to develop cross-platform. But really, if you're making a game in C#, you might as well just go with Unity or Godot. Unity in particular has loads of open source UI plugins, and even without them the built in UI is simple to work with(it's just ugly without a lot of work).
"Requirements
- Java 14 or higher
- 500 iq"
Minus 500 iq 😂😂hahaha😢😭
Requirements
- Java 500
- 14 IQ or higher
@Martín Castro I mean, Java 17 is the latest LTS, so you do have a reason to use 14 or higher
RAM 24 Bits
HDD 32 Bytes
It may get bigger after europe grows more than 3 areas . . . 🙂
@@mypowerlevelisover9000 That implies you'd need the opposite of Java 14 or higher. The semantics here are actually quite complicated. It could also mean you'd need Java -14 or higher or, perhaps, it just means you need something other than Java 14 or higher.
> “smallest non-trivial Diplomacy board”
Literally 1984
How do I explain this joke? My gf is asking me why I'm laughing!
Holy hell
I mean this one is definitely still trivial...
I need to see Valefisk and crew play 5D Diplomacy with Multiversal Time Travel
Oh god... the memes 😆
They need to finish Campaign of North Africa first
Or just cut to the chase and do 5d Campaign for North Africa with Multiverse Time Travel
@@lettuce141 now you're thinking with portals
I know Vale has the know how. We just need to make him do it.
"Is it a viable game that you could actually play? I don't think so."
I believe this is what we academics call a 'Hold my Beer' moment
My first thought was that Risk would be even more interesting to play.
Any territory that a player owns in a timeline helps build an army to fight in another timeline, restricted by the land the new army is in to fight past ones? Or move troupes to another branch in the same country to try and own a continent?
Add in research (rolls for progress in each timeline to keep it as a puzzle rather than solvable with a good pre-planned path)
@@nehpets216 A 5D Risk game would great, IMO. You'd have to think about it very differently, though. Could you send reinforcements into the past to create a new timeline? How far back would you be able to go? Could you invade the past?
@@Sluppie To simplify the rules I'd have it that Each Army could move once per map state and that you could move on the later map states to past ones to create splits. Splitting an Army is a move, and so is moving research to the past. The question would be ending branches, would it be best to end them when they were dead in the past from a branch that wouldn't die? Maybe have it so that a branch killing an army that would kill that branch would cause that section to reset back to that point?
It's a fun thought puzzle
Oh and on the "how far back" I'd have it to the point that time travel was made and something like 3 still existing branches in that time period from that specific country.
So, reinforce your position 3 times in the past and the enemy couldn't attack it from a future position (Same time period could still go attack it, with reinforcements from the future too.)
Hold my Java
Valefisk needs to get on this 0-0
why must you haunt me so much
this game looks simultaneously very entertaining and mentally draining
you've done it
you've broke me
I can't help but think the mental drain would be part of the fun somehow.
@@StarshadowMelody Because at least this is mental drain for fun rather than mental drain from seeing all the problems going on in the world ^_^,
Ah, so it's just like Heart's of Iron 4, this game is totally up my alley! Let's go!
broken
this is simultaneously extremely painful and extremely hilarious
for you
@@berthold64 Hey, ready to hate yourself in 5 different time frames?
These are some 5D emotions
IKR.
I will point out another valid mix of 5D Chess and Diplomacy is just regular chess, although you might have been beaten to the punch to make that one.
Unless he used multiverse time travel to go back in time and invent chess before it had been invented before.
@@cartersherwood3218 excellent counterpoint
I thought the same thing ^^
He broke himself. He's finally done it he drove himself mad. Honestly I've no idea how you made this like at all.
In 5d chess the players each get their own direction from the central axis to expand into when creating new timelines. Conveniently these directions fit nicely on a 2d plane, but they don't have to. My proposal would be to start using that "third unused spacial dimension" (although not on the board) to fit seven directions around the central axis. It'd look very pretty as well, creating a sort of conical shape as you play, though it would become even worse to control.
Oh right, damn hadn't even considered that's how 5D chess adds the areas. Well let's start with Austria vs France, and then see if we someone can figure out a reasonable visualisation of 7 player 5D diplomacy.
EDIT: For a 2d representation maybe you could just select which 2 players expansions you currently want to look at (1 above and 1 below), so that you can input moves easily.
Although I think arrow visualisation is going to be bonkers, as regular digital diplomacy already has a hard time not making the arrows a mess to read. Now imagine arrows coming from 7 sets of alternate timelines. Madness.
This was _exactly_ my thought (and also mr gotchalk that’s a really good idea) oh and also the arrows need to look like spaghetti noodles with conical tips so that when you view the whole thing (maybe drag to spin around the time axis?) you can view your knot in all its fabulous glory
I think a simple arrow from the branched multiverse to the new one would suffice. Given all players do their action at the same time, the same branch may come from an action from more than one player together.
it would be neat to have this but made so that you can potentially cycle the boards around (think a revolver chamber) to choose 2 player timeline sets to view (+ the center timeline)
Yeah. One time axis per player sounds reasonable. The idea of making it 3D is a good solution for visualisation and probably the best thing we get until we unlock all the dimensions string theory promised us.
You could limit it to 5 Players to make it more manageable.
master plan:
- finish this
- play a game of it to completion, maybe with a simplified board
- record said play
- translate the game to a story for NaNoWriMo
- drown in madness
- become the madness
- achieve enlightenment, warp the samsara in on itself and end the multiverse
*Soldier voice* My god...
Honestly, while this isn't really a game in its current state, it seems like it would be far easier to make into a game than 5d chess in its current state... Would you mind if I tried my hand at it? (Yes, I would make it seven players)
Well, I can't exactly stop you. Interested to see what you create.
I would play this
What can I do to be notified if/when you release it?
early
Let us know when your done :)
creating a way to kill or get rid of timelines or having a timeline cap would probably be needed to be able to actually keep track of whats going on
what if when you made a move that resulted in the board being the same as any previous or present board, you just say that they are the same board
@@PokeCube_ if the board state repeats on different timelines on the same day as another timeline then the time streams collapse onto that singular board state allowing for the destruction of timeloops or dead ending one timeline into another. Could allow for players to get charges back.
Maybe each player only has a certain amount of timelines they can create.That way they can be shared between all the players evenly. And when a timeline is deleted, the players would be refunded the pieces they lost.
Each player can only push one alternate timeline forward. This would limit alternative timelines to one for each player. So a three player game would have a maximum of four total timelines.
A variation of that could be: each player has a time machine. Only timelines with a time machine present move forward. This could propose a victory condition that you're the last player with a time machine.
I suggest that a board/timeline where the active board (last one) has only one player is locked and "won by that player". The result could be the player moving all their troops/diplomats (?) from that timeline into other active timelines (not backwards in time).
Also, perhaps a player diplomat/piece cannot move "diagonally" through dimensions. They can only move to the present time of a board (vertical movement) or to the past of the one they are in (horizontal movement). And never to a timeline they have been removed from.
I actually remember an old school Diplomacy variant with two parralel worlds and 14 players. A unit could either move normally on its own board OR move to the same space it was already in but on the alternate map.
That's an interesting idea
Needs a theme song: "Yesterday's altered tomorrow is only today's elsewhen".
Ah yes, this is actually an inspirational quote
Is this a valid expression time travelers would use?
@@victoralexandervinkenes9193 Pun at the expense of Michael Bublé
@@henrycobb who?
can't wait for Sid Meier's 5D Civ with multiverse time travel
It seems weird to me that units are considered adjacent to adjacent spaces in the past or future. Seems like they should only be adjacent to their own space in the past and future.
Totally agree.
@@dexlovesgames_dlg Also agree.
thematically you could argue that the mechanism for time/multiverse travel is separate from the physical movement of the troops, so in the same action, you could reposition your unit while shifting it through time
timeline logic is quite easy, you are alowed to make up to a single timeline more than the player that created the least.
That would mean there could be 6 new timelines in a single turn (in a seven player game).
@@Kenionatus Not being overwhelming is not an objective, as long as you're being consistent and computable ;).
Would this mean as player if you had the least amount of timelines you could lie in negotiations about making a new timeline, forcing another player's attempt to make a timelime to fail? EVIL. I LOVE IT.
7 Players: Easy! Every player gets their own dimension. Which would make this 8-to-12-dimensional Diplomacy. (depending on how you count them - not going to open that can o' worms)
So, we got ourselves a temporal cold war simulator. JOY!
What if, instead of having timelines be indexed by like, elements of the free abelian group generated by the set of players, or whatever,
it was instead the free non-abelian group?
@@drdca8263 I wish I understood this comment, a.so the each player starting in their own dimension would be cool
@@daniellewilson8527 I mean that a timeline spawned by player B off of a timeline spawned by player A, would be different than in the other order. But now I realize that the original game doesn’t seem to be indexed by a group in the way I was thinking anyway.
I. Love. This. It's quite similar to a different design idea I had, but you actually built the code you mad man.
I would suggest starting with a simplistic 5 player board, and only allowing each player to go back in time/space one time per game, splitting that board into a new timeline for a maximum of 6 potential active boards.
Imagine, working with a player for a long time, relying on them, then falling into infighting later... only for someone to spawn a new board cloning the moment in time when you two were relying on each other's good will... and having to figure out if you're going to let your current bad blood taint it, or if you'll be friends in one universe and enemies in another simultaneously.
I think only once is too limiting, but having a limit is needed I think
@@smileyp4535 In 5D Chess, you can only have one more board than your opponent. So in 5D Diplomacy, the only way to create a new board should be for everyone to have one
this sounds like the most reasonable version so far, I'd play it
why be based when you can be based on Diplomacy and 5D Chess with Multiverse Time Travel instead
I want this to be a real game so that I can watch you and Samet play it.
[Achrom] is a RealTimeStrategy game with Time Travel, but it lacks multiverse-parallel-timelines and only has roughly 5 "Instances" in a single time-Line, that continuousky overwrite each other from the past into the future, thus undoing the "instance closer to the future with "time waves" from the past. those time waves progress slightly faster than time progresses forward within them (unit movement speeds). The timeline has 1 "first time", that slowly progresses into the future, and any time traveling event oscillates backwards through time, till it reaches the "first time" (that also slowly progresses into the future, so we do not use too much memory), where it then collapses any paradox into a single outcome (but this outcome takes some time to progress into the present time via time waves).
Achron also has teleportation, and 3 factions, that all approach time travel and unit upgrading differently.
The further you send commands in the past, the more "time energy" you need, which refills for free over game-time. This makes Achron a lower-actions-per-minute strategy game, where tactics are only possible close to the present time.
While Achron constantly overwrites the past, it also extends a bit into the "future", to a point, where it tends to constantly warn you that you are about to lose the match to an ambush, that will then likely be aborted in the past, so it was just some kamikaze-scouting into the future.
Scouting with time travel is a whole new experience. You can expand fast, and also cancel a big expansion in the past to prevent it from being ambushed in the future.
At first glance, it seems nice, that everyone can undo everything (within bounds), but this just adds way too much micromanagement, that is rather spend in a clear strategy.
It solves the grandfather paradox to a point, here you can clone units and construct units for the cost of sending a unit into the past, and then abort its construction in the not so far past, and then send that unit to the future (when it survived the grandfather paradox)
Achron did not sell too well, because the time travel gimmick is intimidating, and its visuals and voice over (and campaign) are very amateur/minimal, to a point where Achron is too difficult on too many levels.
Achron is a proof of concept, that you could add time travel to a 75 turn small map of a Humankind/civ like game.
much more interesting than time travel, i think is to just add relativity to a larger-scale space-shooter, with time dilation and length contraction and mass bending spacetime, to a point, where time slows down significantly on a faster moving vessel.
Yeah, I had high hopes for achron when I first heard of the idea, too. I really like the time-waves idea they had to solve the grandfather paradox, but maybe making it an RTS game wasn't the right idea due to the micro-management it induces
I didn’t know this existed, I want to ply this
As a guy who believes that any game idea CAN work with the right approach, this video is absolutely fascinating to me and I can't stop coming back to it.
If only I could wrap my tiny feeble mind around programming I could do more than intensely ponder about how it could work
this is really cool id love to play a "real" version of it and be driven completely insane
might code up some python stuff for this this weekend and look how bad i can make it :0
How did it go?
For your question about where do the other five players timelines go, I think the 'Occam's Razor' in this problem is just to remove this mode of displaying ownership of timelines. Instead of doing up and down, the arrows running through them could be the colour of the player with each newer timeline being further down than the last. Additionally, either keeping the number of new time lines capped to one more than the player with the FEWEST timelines ensures the same outcome as the 5D chess version.
Hey Austria, if you support me into Rumania 5 years in the past, then I will help you get Bulgaria this next year. Russia
Surprised that there isnt a valefisk video of this
I love and hate this concept. Let's do Media Wars 3 on this one
Also, I'm going to be **that guy** and point out that time travelling an army to the past doesn't make it avoid all the conflict that happened at that time! You can't just saunter back into a contested territory unsupported like that Blue guy did at 7:06. If three units all try to move to that province it's still a bounce!
@@DiploStrats A couple of people have pointed that out, but I think that's a design choice. In my interpretation, a space left empty in the past by whatever means is free to move to. I feel that leads to more interesting moves, or at least did for my demo arrangements. But yeah, I see your point.
@@DiploStrats You could consider the arrival of a future blue army at a province in the past where there was a bounce as support for the other blue army in the new timeline though, which is how I interpreted the time traveling blue army taking that province.
If you can actually flesh this out, it would probably be more popular than 5D chess.
I have three thoughts.
1. I think a good generalization for diplomacy movement would be infantry being able to move or suport the same space or surounding ones one turn ago or be "convoyed" by ship how ever far away and back in time as you want but a past ship may only be used for one convoy ever.
2. Adjustment would have to be done on a per time line bases. You effectively sacrifice power in the current timeline until adjustment to try to press for an advantage in another timeline where you could loss the peice on the next adjustment if you fail to take a supply point . It gives it a risk reward setup.
3. The win condition should be control of half the supply points on half the timelines. It can't be on one board becuase at some point you would have enough infantry across all boards to just mob one board and you have a problem with ties.
Oh, how fascinating are the frivolous efforts at a that grow way too much for their own good. Love them!
Probably should have pieces only able to step back one step in time. The pieces only move one and anything more is far far too much to comprehend
What abomination have you created? ….and I’ve gotta play it.
Nicely done! I think you could balance the game with a limit on the number of jumps back in time you can make based on an energy score that refills over time.
Over moves you mean? What if you just use the energy to travel to other times you have full energy????
@@smileyp4535 the idea would be that the energy to travel through time is shared by all time equally, so you would deplete it everywhere to use it anywhere.
@@Q269 ooh, toché I was being a pandantic smartass but you came back without missing a beat 😂
It would be kinda cool to only be able to go back in time every 2/3 moves or something I think that is a great limitation
@@smileyp4535 haha 😂 yeah, thinking of it like producing "unuptainium" each side is going for broke to get more, but you can only produce it at a limited speed.
@@Q269 yeah, but that doesn't make sense either, you could just time travel to a point in time where you have more unuptainium 🤣
Politic with time travel and multiverse? I can imagine young Hitler running on the streets and screaming “HELP!!! THERE’S A WHOLE ARMY THAT COMES AFTER ME!! AND AN ARMY OF CLONES OF THE ART COLLEGE PRINCIPALS WHO ACCEPTING ME!!!!”
Woodrow Wilson elected US president with Woodrow Wilson as vice president and Woodrow Wilson comments on his loss of the election against Woodrow Wilson. Woodrow Wilson complains about King George III being a bad candidate for the monarch of the future United Kingdom.
Can't wait for interdimensional warlord China, just in case standard warlord China was difficult to keep track of already.
Turns out that they all where using the time machine from Primer so they can't travel back far enough to meet Hitler and stab him. No one is quite sure how every relevant nation plans for time machines at almost the same time, nor exactly why they begun construction on one that was that big. Irregardless, they sent back more time machines in their time machine and can now move practically any army anywhere in space and time.
@@CantoniaCustoms The Qing collapse to the republican nationalists (Tongminghui) who don't manage to unite the country and so the Anhui Clique fight the Zhili Clique fight the republican nationalists (Guomingdang) fight the republican federalists (Chen Jiongming) fight the nationalists (Guomingjun) fight the communists (also Guomingdang, pre-chaig-kai-shek/ Jiang Jieshi) fight the Shangdong warlord fight the Shanxi governor fight the republicans (Fengtian) fight the Manchu restorationists (Qing) fight the Mongolian Bolshevik theocratic khanate fight the Ma clan fight the Dalai Lama fight the Sichuan warlords fight the Yunan Clique fight the Guizhou warlords fight the Hunan warlords fight the Guangdong warlords fight the old Guangxi Clique fight the new Guangxi clique fight the communists (Anhui Soviet).
Now add in multidimensional time travel, and throw in all of China's previous warlord eras into the mix while you're at it.
Adjustment should be locked to the timeline.
You win when you have half of the supply points in one timeline.
Add an icon ware you traveled back in time. That is the time portal to the new timeline. If you control it you can destroy it and any linked timelines. Any destroyed timelines can no longer be interacted with.
This is a perfect example of the phrase "just because you can do something it doesn't mean you should"
I would have new timelines entering in along the round edge of a cylinder, meaning you'd rotate through as you go. The number of timelines seems like it would be ideal to lock it at 1 more timeline than the lowest total. So in the beginning, everyone has one, meaning each person could create one additional timeline, but until everyone has two noone can rush a third. And that's about as much game design as I can pump into this nightmare.
That’s awesome, I love strategy games that look simple but are not :p
3:00 So basically, what you are saying is, that you have finally made an accurate Fate RTS...
You are, indeed, an absolute mad lad for making this. I can’t even imagine how many classes and methods you needed to make and how you managed to debug everything. This is the kind of programming skill that could take over the world.
The Kestrel wallpaper hits pretty hard ngl
This looks fun as hell. I hope someone turns this into a full blown game
If someones want a make playable version I think the first thing to do is to make rules that make this minimal version easy. i.e. things mentioned in other comments like collapsing identical board positions into a single board. And restrictions on moves until the 2 players 1 army each 3 region becomes trivial to play then move to a larger board. Rules that restrict play are your friends :)
You have hiven me an idea, two years in the future, and to be honest it'll probably die with all my other ideas but might as well try to make my own version of 5D diplomacy With Multiverse Time Travel.
I have never played Diplomacy, but I have played 5D Chess and Risk, and I absolutely want this to be a full game of some sort.
i thought for a moment, "Hey, what about first person to control one entire board", but thats too fragile a win condition, even for a 1v1
so what about whoever controls 18 More enemy zones than the opponent, or has the most complete boards at once after all boards are locked.
-when an enemy zone is captured it'll count for the 18 count Tug of War until contested and a new timeline is created(cancels out 1) or the enemy captures yours (adds 1)
-when all 3 zones on a board are controlled by an army, the whole timeline becomes locked out from captures and grants that player 1 point.
-with the catch of the player who owns that point board can freely sent troops out to sacrifice the point for the turn.
the game ending when one player wins the Tug of War, all boards are locked out and a count is done, or someone surrenders,
I just finished your Diplomacy video and you perfectly matched what my thinking was.
I can imagine playing a daily version of this using an ever updating photoshop of the game board via discord
I wonder what 5D chess would be like if going back in time rewrote history instead of splitting it... I also think about what it would be like if you were able to send peices to the future (staying in suspended space until the spot they're travelling to becomes the present)
The best part of 5D Diplomacy would be when you and half of your alternate timeline versions start plotting to betray yourself.
The potential of legitimate in game temporal manipulation in a strategy game is very exiting. I can both imagine the scenario of the very direct application like diplomacy, but also a abstract concept like imagine a Cold War game where your actively fighting US vs USSR in some scenario, but each player can send troops to past events to improve their present position, such as a temporal proxy war in Korea to strengthen themselves in Vietnam in the future. In a long term game, imagin a tech race to unlock different jump points, such as the USSR gaining a jump point to ww2 and trying to gain more post-war concessions, then the US discovers the jump point and starts amping up D-Day. Each turn would have to be stored of course as the issue may be continuous restarting of the main battlefield, but I have some ideas for that. For one, maybe it could lead to just a stockpile boost, but that seems cheap. I instead have the idea of “Jumpstart” points. Basically, a nation can build up Jumpstart points, and when a major shift happens in the timeline, the main battlefield would reset, but a player can spend Jumpstart points to force through a number of previous actions. For instance, say the US had had a heavy investment into the main battlefield and the USSR kept having nearly won battles with them on the main battlefield but lost. But the USSR wins a event shift, say securing more of Germany for negotiations. They then have more recourse at the start of the main battlefield, but they made a lot of Jumpstarts and forced through all previous actions. Suddenly all those near losses are victories, and the US loses battles, and since their actions are forced through, each consecutive forced battle is worse and worse in casualties and suddenly the USSR is on good main ground and the US is in a bad place, maybe having so many consecutive loses triggers a anti-war-sentiment effect that can only be fixed via main battlefield victories or altering the timeline again. The Jumpstart points have lots of potential rules, such as when a big temporal shift happens, can either side put in points? Can they cancel out or are they only additive? With increased point usage, maybe the default reset point is slowly moved forward, setting previous actions in stone, only effectible via temporal shifts? Went on a bit of a tangent, but I am now hooked on this concept and Im only at 7:45!
Am now postulating the fluidity of space-time and the application of the indeterminacy principle in application to points in time, and if this principle is to apply, either time travel can be potentially token down into binary variables or the indeterminacy principle can be applied to a non-binary system.
Oh dear god it's coming. The ultimate game, it comes. We aren't ready, Oliver. Spare us!
Remind me of the webtoon Kubera. 6D chess between primevals.
You madlad you did it
I approve of this development. 5D board games overtaking the video game scene soon?
I think one thing would be to have a new multiverse every 20 turns in the game. Have some way to destroy a timeline too.
I think the thing with timeline direction only really applies to chess specifically because of pawns - since pawns can only move forward on a board, it applies that they could only move forward through timelines. Because that limitation doesn't exist in Diplomacy as far as I'm aware, there's no reason you couldn't just lay out timelines in the order they're created
Solution to the Many Players, Too Many Timelines thing: When time travel is attempted by more than one player on a particular boardstate or perhaps more restrictively in the present, they must all be going to the SAME destination boardstate or *everyone bounces*. That forces luck or coordination to be involved when multiple players try to travel.
Ok, I know this makes me a massive geek, but this was by far the coolest thing I’ve seen all week!! 😅❤
5D Diplomacy sounds like a Bismark Simulator
Though you may also exchange the name for your favourite historic person, who had to deal with overly convoluted and complex relations between countries.
**chuckles in Machiavelli**
I think this would need an entire design doc to clearly lay out all the rules.
How did I not see this when it got released! This is a masterpiece
I had a dream about 5D Jenga last night. I googled 5D chess today, came across Diplomacy in the title, remembered playing Diplomacy in the past in high school, and watched and liked your video. I see your signature in the description- the 5Dness there is that I have been watching Highlander on Amazon of late and am thoroughly enjoying the fact that the main character's last name is listed in the description. Could not have known that just clicking at random. So 5D.
Mortal ParaWorld: 5D Diplomacy With Multiverse Time Travel: Faster Than Light
Adding a mouse click user interface would have saved you so much time in testing.
Valefisk is frothing right now, i know it.
Its perfect
I really hope this blows up and you or someone makes this game.
Oh great now we have a Temporal Cold War. I’ll get Captain Archer on the line.
imagine if Valefisk got his hands on this...
Well done: this is the first time I've ever screamed with fear at a thumbnail pic.
"What if we combined them"
Ladies and gentlemen, I give you Normal Chess.
Someone's gotta get valefisk on this
Cant wait to play 5Dplomacy for myself
I don't know how well full 5d diplomacy would work.... but I think you have the bones of a pretty kickass temporal cold war game
if only this was the version vale and victims played during hurricane ian
This is what it was like for teddy lol
very impressive work :) ty Oliver, very cool
I love how youtube recommended me this video because of a 5D chess video that i watched a year ago
The Terminator came out in 1984 and time travel is still the best way to defeat AI lol.
i know you say this wouldn't be a very good game but my writer brain instantly latched onto this idea of a universe set in the WW2 era but humans have access to time travel and spatial and temporal weapons'. Hell psychic powers and anomalous objects would fit right in with the theme. This feels like it would fit perfectly into the universe of Control or the SCP foundation as some alternate universe. Don't know how to code, yet, but this makes for some compelling motivation.
The Lugg has finaly gone completely insane, finaly came out of the other side of suffering to find peace.
And just when I thought Diplomacy was complex enough, you went and added a 5th Dimension, with multiverse time travel
Now you need to make a map in 3D so the game ca actually be 5D diplomacy
It's like the historical epic Waterloo, if it was written by the guys that made Primer.
Nice presentation, hopefully, you get full marks!
"So anyway, here it is"
*Cackle of a madman*
I would offer to help you improve this, but I am developing my own strategy game ATM heh
Ooh so tell.
@@platinumsun4632 it’s called DR4X. Oliver is actually doing a song for it.
@@Untrustedlife Poggers.
I so desperately want this to be a real game.
cant wait for valefisk to play this!
Could be interesting to see a continued version of this (ofc limited to 2 players, and a limited number of spaces), but It would be interesting.
Me: "Wait, I feel like I know this guy... What, why wasn't I subscribed to him?"
UA-cam: "lol, remember when I unsubscribed you from random people a few years ago?"
We’ve reached peak META…
5D Campaign for North Africa
some feedback on your limitation questions:
- every two spots on the time axis makes sense, as it represents two turns' worth of time for each timeline on the axis.
- over half the supply centers works, either on the main/original timeline or overall for every active board. (the second one might make for interesting alternate-world scenarios with worlds controlled by single players amassing their forces and sending them at other dominated worlds)
- maybe a timelines tab for each player? say, they all appear under the original timeline but you can click between each player's set of created timelines for your move/s
i don't really have any particular answers for the rest of the questions though
If it's too complex for people, then an AI could play it against itself and we could watch it with absolute confusion. (I would totally be down for that video.)
omfg... the idea im getting from just the two problem slides... fucking brilliant... holy shit yes yes yes
omg, this is such a good concept, better ui and controls would make this into another wonderful time travel game!
VALE, WE HAVE A NEW TORTURE MACHINE
@Valefisk it's torture time babyyyyyyyy