The Weirdest Music Fight I've Ever Caused
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- Опубліковано 23 січ 2020
- Who knew anyone cared that much about augmented 6ths?
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So a while back I caused a bit of a stir in music theory twitter by making a specific, technical argument about augmented 6th chords, and apparently some people have very strong opinions about that? Fortunately, most of music theory twitter is full of kind, compassionate people, so instead of being a complete mess, it led to a productive and informative (if a bit heated at times) discussion, and I walked away with a lot to think about, so today I thought it'd be good to try to synthesize that discussion, explain what went wrong, and re-examine my stance to see if it requires any revision which... Yeah, it probably does, but I still think I was more or less right. Music fight!
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Script: docs.google.com/document/d/1s...
SOURCES:
My twitter thread: / 1097071589512732673
Dr. Biamonte's paper: mtosmt.org/issues/mto.08.14.2...
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And thanks as well to Corvi, Henry Reich, Gene Lushtak, Eugene Bulkin, Logan Jones, Abram Thiessen, Anna Work, Oliver, Jc Bq, Adam Neely, nico, Michael Fieseler, Rick Lees, Ben LaRose, Justin Donnell, Dave Mayer, Thomás, rhandhom1, Davis Sprague, Paul Quine, Alex, Harold Gonzales, CodenaCrow, Nikolay Semyonov, Arnas, Sarah Spath, Skylar J Eckdahl, Marc Himmelberger, Chris Borland, Caroline Simpson, Daniel Gilchrist, Michael Alan Dorman, billy roberts, Elliot Burke, Alex Atanasyan, Alex Knauth, Greg Borenstein, Tim S., David Tocknell, Elias Simon, Nathan Petchell, Blake Boyd, Trevor, Michael McCormick, Lilith Dawn, Dmitry Jemerov, Ian Seymour, Charles Gaskell, Luke Rihn, Rob Holton, Elliot Jay O'Neill, Elliot Winkler, Tom Evans, Jerry D. Brown, Fabian, Ohad Lutzky, Kurtis Commanda, James A. Thornton, Benjamin Cooper, Kevin, Max Wanderman, Ken Bauso, Brian Dinger, Hape Company, Stefan Strohmaier, Adam Wurstmann, Kelsey Freese, Shadow Kat, Adam Kent, Matt Giallourakis, JH, Lee Rennie, Richard T. Anderson, Angela Flierman, Paul Grieselhuber, David Conrad, Jake Lizzio, Mark Feaver, Kevin Johnson, Brian McCue, Stephan Broek, ml cohen, Sylvain Chevalier, Darzzr, Roger Grosse, Rodrigo Roman, Francois LaPlante, Jeremy Zolner, Rowan Fox, Paper Coelacanth, Britt Ratliff, Eddie O'Rourke, Ryan, Jon Bauman, John July, Volker Wegert, Danny, Matthew Kallend, Patrick Callier, Joshua Gleitze, Chris Chapin, Emilio Assteves, Alex Keeny, Alexey Fedotov, Charles Hill, Valentin Lupachev, Joshua La Macchia, DSM, Ben in RI, Gary Butterfield, Niko Albertus, Luke Wever, Elizabeth von Teig, Steve Brand, Rene Miklas, Connor Shannon, max thomas, Jamie Price, Kennedy Morrison, Red Uncle, Todd Davidson, David Christensen, Doug Nottingham, Paul Guziewski, Scott Howarth, Barendo, Smackdab, Nicholas Wolf, Ben Phillips, Alex Larking, Greg Hodgdon, Scott Nystrom, Douglas Anderson, ZagOnEm, Robert Beach, Peter Leventis, Lamadesbois, veleum, Kevin Boyce, Blake White, Michal Mikolaj Maslowski, Phillip D Neal, Aaron Epstein, Chris Connett, Scott Frazer, Aaron Zhu Freedman, Hexa Midine, Nicholas Steicke, John Polgreen, Tuna, Mathew Wolak, Mark Sibly, Killian Hackenschmidt, T, Lincoln Mendell, Vincent Engler, Noam Fields-Meyer, Luke, h2g2guy, Kenneth Kousen, James, Skyler, W. Dennis Sorrell, Mordredd, salman karout, Carsten Lechte, Sam Rezek, Lucas Augusto, Matt McKegg, Dominic Montanez, Marcus Doyle, Beth Martyn, Caitlin Olsen, Taylor Martin, Melvin Martis, NoticeMK, Natalie Ferraro, Hubert Ulber, Hikaru Katayamma, Adeline Mueller, Sarah Sutton, Doug Lantz, Evan Satinsky, Strattara, Stephen Shephard, Anna, Brian Cohen, James Little, RaptorCat, Professor Elliot, Lake Howieson, Jozef Paffen, Larry Siden, leftaroundabout, Jigglypuffer, Jens Schäfer, Mikely Whiplash, room34, and Austin Amberg! Your support helps make 12tone even better!
Also, thanks to Jareth Arnold for proofreading the script to make sure this all makes sense hopefully!
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Some additional thoughts/corrections:
1) I should note, right off the bat, that I'm still open to having my mind changed on this. While at the moment it appears to me that a not-insignificant portion of the objections come from a place of inertia ("This is correct because it's how it's been done.") I will happily concede that there _are_ differences between the two devices, at least in terms of their normative uses, and it's certainly possible that I'm underestimating the magnitude of those differences. I don't think I am, but I want to explicitly acknowledge the possibility. Discussing this last time wound up shifting my view on the topic, and it would be arrogant to assume that it's not possible my views could shift again.
2) Describing the German 6th as just doing a parallel 5th is probably a bit oversimplified. While many theorists and composers of the time did allow for exceptions to the parallel 5ths rule in order to accommodate the German 6th, there were also ways around that problem, either by pre-resolving that note first or by moving to an intermediary chord (Usually the Cadential 6/4, which is the notes of the I chord in second inversion, although functionally it's not really a I chord, but that's a whole other can of worms) and then going to the V. I didn't want to focus on that part of the problem so I glossed over it a bit, but wanted to clarify here.
3) I do think it's worth noting that, as Dr. Biamonte points out in her article, some classical composers specifically utilized the equivalence of the +6 and the dominant 7th, so it's not like they didn't know the two sounded the same. Again, the chord wasn't conceptualized in that sense by default (Heck, it's debatable whether it was conceptualized as a "chord" at all.) but the idea that the two are at least passably similar devices is far from a new one.
4) I also want to take a second to address the objection that, in tuning systems other than equal temperament, there _is_ in fact a difference between the augmented 6th and the minor 7th, and since the +6 chord was developed before ET became standard practice, it's unreasonable to conflate the two when discussing it. And this is fair from a historical perspective, but a couple things: a) To the best of my understanding, it continued in common use past the adoption of ET, which means that composers at the time didn't view the distinction between the two intervals to be a critical part of its structure, and b) While I can't speak for everyone, I can tell you that when I learned about +6 chords, my teacher made no mention of tuning theory. We learned it on a 12TET piano, just like everything else, so if the distinction _is_ important we're doing an incredibly poor job incorporating it into our pedagogy on the subject.
5) I think one of the biggest changes in my view since my original twitter thread is that I no longer think "Tritone Substitution" is a good name for the category containing both devices. I was so used to the idea as an abstraction that I forgot that it implied a specific derivation, a derivation that very clearly isn't shared by the +6 chord. I don't know what the right name is: I suggested Polar Dominant, but that implies dominant function which may not be great either. Not sure.
Thanks
A very interesting analysis. Just a thought, if some people say it's the same notes but context gives the different names (which is how they come across), then rename it with something unmusical, and see if there's as big an argument. "Is this chord "Fred" or "Dave"?" (Without saying whether aug 6th is Fred or Dave and vice versa!)
I know it sounds silly, but to me it's the notes which make the chord, not the name.
Here's an even hotter take. A tritone substitution is just a rootless voicing of a V7b5b9.
@@godowskygodowsky1155 wouldn't it be a bb5?
wikipedia calls it a predominant chord. so maybe we could categorize them as predominant chords
I wanna see a 12tone video where the things he draws slowly start losing correlation with what he's talking about until he's literally just drawing random things.
YES. I need that nonsense (the genre) energy in my life
Easy! Swap the audio from one clip with the video from another!
@@carlkolthoff5402 clever
So you mean a regular 12tone video? At like 8:14 he draws an ant for no reason.
Turn of your sound
2:55 "That's OK - It's the least important note in the chord."
*sad alto noises*
I literally remember myself saying once in Harmony class "that's a tritone sub" to which the teacher replied "... Also known as an augmented sixth chord" (which considering the lesson before that was about aug sixth chords, it's the answer he expected).
So, I support you on that one.
I was fortunate to have a music theory teacher who played both jazz and classical trombone, and understanding that our classes (had him for 3 semesters) were fairly evenly split (I'd say 40% jazz students) would always explains these things in both terminologies
The understanding I gain when you and Adam Neely agree on something is surpassed only by the understanding I gain when you two disagree.
Yeah truth
"start with my favorite voice, the bass" E P I C
SLAP LIKE NOW
Immature.
My favorite thing about these videos is the pure sense of “yes, I know what those words mean individually.”
I was taught that Ger+6 doesn’t just say “screw it” and use a parallel 5th, it usually goes to a cadential I64 to V to offset the parallel movement.
When it's being used in a functional way it totally does use either a 6-5 suspension or a cadential 6/4 but if you're using a secondary Ger+6 chord it sometimes doesn't use that. I've only seen it used that way in Wagner though so it might be because Wagner was writing post-tonal music in this instance.
I believe that German +6ths going directly to V are called Mozart fifths (since they're common in his music), but, yes, the standard voice leading is moving to the cadential 6/4.
The cadential 6/4 is not a tonic chord. Evidence: try to play a progression and then stop on this chord. You’ll notice that the whole thing sounds inherently unstable. Scale degree 1 is dissonant! How can it be dissonant over a tonic chord?
Thus, it doesn’t deserve a I Roman numeral to describe it. Instead, what’s really happening is voice leading over a DOMINANT bass note. That’s a fundamentally dominant-ish thing.
The label that best conveys what’s happening is to start with a V, and use the figures 6/5 double dash 5/3 to explain the voice leading to a root position dominant.
Legomyegoorj I never said a cadential 6/4 is tonic. He says in the video ger+6 goes straight to a real V chord, which causes parallel 5ths. I said I’ve usually seen it go to a cadential 6/4 first to avoid parallel 5ths.
???
@@Noah-mt4ypThe issue of what to label this chord is a tricky one. You had written "cadential I64," which to me implied that you've been taught to label it with the tonic roman numeral "I".
The issue of parallel fifths from Ger+6 isn't what I was interested in talking about, since that is a relatively uncontroversial part of this entire discussion.
I love a good nerd riot.
Yeah I know next to nothing about formal music theory, but this was an interesting view into some drama I was otherwise unaware of.
This comment did not age super well
David Jairala like milk
@@davidjairala69 how so?
Your I-formation is illegal. The split end isn't covering the left tackle. Good point on teaching (for any subject), but that's still a 5 yard penalty :P
David DeChamplain Man, this video is confusing enough. 🤬
@UCevmfleKd9RZERQ0VKmMnqg David is referring to the (American) football play diagram that 12-tone doodled at 8:47. It's an illegal play (I'm gonna have to take his word for it; I have not a dang clue about the specifics of football plays xD), and therefore if actually attempted in a real-life football game, would result in a 5 yard penalty for the team who has the ball (thus pushing the line of scrimmage 5 yards further away from the end zone).
Calyo Delphi did someone say americ
anfootball ?
@@andrewellis712 Yes, because there's American football, and then there's Football football. As in, the football people actually play with their feet the whole time instead of just occasionally kicking an inflated pointy lozenge down the field. :P
(Also, yes, I am American lol)
@@andrewellis712 the face when nobody gets your reference (don't worry I got it)
At 3:54 you mention how the aug. 6th sounds like a minor 7th, but the interval played is a MAJOR 7th.
So glad someone else found that, I was questioning my musical sanity.
it sounds like a C and a Bb tho
@@haroldbingus No, it sounds like B2 and A#3 because those are the notes they are.
The notated notes are C and Bb, but knowing 12-tone...
Thank you!!!!! I thought I was going crazy
I am so confused... I'm going to do my fluid dynamics homework, that is far simpler...
Fun fact: Beethoven actually disproved existance&smoothness of Navier-Stokes solution, but he was too busy and disturbed to publish it and instead wrote his late string quartets.
I'm so glad he did...
Did he write the conjecture in the heading of the string quartet and say he doesn't have enough room in the margin to prove it unless he would?
@@denglish5275 I have found a truly marvelous analytic solution for turbulence, that this sonata is too small to contain.
mood
@@leftaroundabout Do you have any articles or sources on this? It sounds super interesting anecdote but i couldn't find it from looking it up.
I'm a music student at East Carolina University and my teacher actually did what 12tone suggested! We went over tritone subs at the same time as augmented 6ths!
Although I had music theory classes that touched on them I didn't really understand augmented 6 chords until I heard about tritone substitutions and one of my friends happened to tell me of this relation, so I can vouch for this approach being helpful for learning in my case at least
okay but honestly that was the best transition to the sponsor you've ever done
9:01 _and one of the best tools in our arsenal is _*_SKILLSHARE_*
So I'm learning music theory from my once a week guitar lesson and what I can get from videos like these. I know it wasn't the intent of this video, but this video finally explained what parallel octaves and fifths were in common practice, how that differed from say power chords, and how and why it mattered when you want to use it. So thanks for that.
I'd go so far as to say that logging in to Twitter was your actual mistake. :)
I'd go so far as to say entering it into his URL bar, or clicking a link leading to it ever was the mistake.
Twitter is only used for announcing things, or else you will have grief.
Twitter is a bad website and I'm glad I'm banned
"Logic from one model can shed light on the other."
*draws a shadow of 4-dimensional cube*
Brilliant! :D
WOW that pivot into selling Skillshare was seamless and flawless. Hats off, man
I understanding absolutely nothing about what you're explaining, but I still watch every single video
What do you find enjoyable about it?
@@adriatic.vineyards I like the cute elephants
I just have to say, I was a music major a quarter century ago and I think this video is the first time I've really understood what a tritone substitution is. Granted, it's because we spent two years on the most rudimentary aspects of 4-part voice leading and never got to any of what I would have considered "interesting" in music theory. And I was a music ed major until halfway through my junior year, so I couldn't take the Advanced Theory and Composition class and still graduate in 4 years. When I dropped the ed part of my major, I decided to pick up an English minor instead of taking more music classes. Then I graduated and became a web developer. Regrets? I've had a few. Anyway, thanks for another informative video!
I always enjoy analyzing your drawings to see the connection to the script. 12 Tone is one of the most interactive channels I watch
Thanks for the vid. I've always wondered about this. I've only learned music theory "along the way" (meaning my piano teachers, classical and jazz, both taught me foundational points and I learned the rest of the stuff on my own), but I was always curious as to whether augmented sixth chords and jazz tritone subs were related. (That is, when I'd something like Db aug 6, G7, C, the Db aug 6 would strike me as a tritone sub of the V. And I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who sees and hears them that way.
My personal favorite conception of augmented 6ths comes from Schoenberg, who views them as being derivatives of V/V chords.
In this scheme, you could just use augmented 6th like structures for *any* V chord, or V/X type of thing.
For example...
V/IV - IV in C
C-E-G-Bb, F-F-F-A
vs using an Fr 6th type thing instead.
Gb-Bb-C-E, F-A-C-F
Useful framework!
I think Schenker had a better idea of where the Aug+6 comes from: it arises as a voice-leading trajectory from a diatonic model: iv6 - V, or the Phrygian half cadence. In fact, the most characteristic soprano line(s) of the Phrygian Half Cadence are only one note away from the It+6 - V motion.
A while ago I was learning how to do counterpoint (Fux Gradus Ad Parnassus) with all the rules of movements you mentioned and now, for once, I actually understood most of the video.
I didn't get the tritatone substition part since haven't studied any jazz, but the explanation made me feel that I understood it by approximation, I guess your point is valid, analogies help a ton when learning something new, now if I ever need to learn tri subs I'll have an easier time because of these link. Great video
i really really enjoyed this video. learning music with you feels so smooth and practical and fun!
Wow! Thank you for all your work all the time...I loved your Andalusian cadence vid & was unaware of the "furore" created!
I am fascinated by perceptions of things -especially music theory things. As a teacher, I always try to make analogies & associations for my students - I let them know it doesn't really matter how you label things (except for an exam of course), but how (if??) you perceive them.
....And the NO. 1 reason is the make musical sense - which means aurally & during performance.
Keep up the great work you are doing.
I was taught Aug6 before I knew what a tritone sub even was, and that's how I could hear them differently. I wouldn't call just any old bII an Aug6. Like many/most/basically all things, it totally depends on context
I similarly learned aug6ths much earlier than TTsubs. I find it interesting that the argument for pedagogy implies the opposite order. Perhaps for jazz musicians or pianists, since I feel pianists quite literally get their hands on most concepts sooner than the rest of us, but I learned the aug6ths as further expansion of the pre-dominant function in tonal harmony. And they came not long after secondary function.
I love watching your videos, and have really been interested in this one, but honestly what blew my mind is how perfectly you drew the Ghostbusters logo haha
months of music theory to realize this complicated chord is just a tritone sub
you could make a video talking about how paint dries in a wall and id still watch it
never change you handsome music elephant
Great video man, have you covered the 6th diminished scale before on the channel? It’s really useful in a practical sense, but I’ve never understood it fully in any music theory framework. This video reminded me of that scale again, it’s another one of those things that has an underdeveloped music theoretic analysis imho. There’s no unified satisfying framework to characterize the relationship between the chords harmonized from the 8 note “6th diminished scale”, and the typical major scale chords which are still available in that scale. As well as some of the extra chords such as dominant 3 and minor 4 that also appear within the scale. If you’re aware of any good readings in that direction or have an opinion I would love to hear it
I tend to agree with you that the way the concepts are taught is important and that giving people a shortcut to see how they are the same leaves more brainspace for focusing on how they are different. I think this is especially important for two things whose differences are somewhat esoteric. My teaching expertise and experience are all in computer tech and with adults (androgogy? eh, probably not as it seems to leave out women), but the learning theory part definitely strikes me as right.
I'm not surprised that caused a furore. lol. Have you read WA Mathieu's "The Harmonic experience"? I seem to remember that he has a novel analysis of the augmented 6th but exactly what it is escapes me at the moment. Something to do with modal interchange I think. I'll have to go and look it up.
As a fairly low-quality weekend-musician who is trying to teach themselves Melodic Fluency en route to Species Counterpoint, but thinks of all 12-TET-based scales in raw numbers of half-steps in symmetrical functionality, I feel the frustration. Also, great video.
Yes, and I think thinking in terms of 7 diatonic scale degrees rather than a 12 pc clock face is an under appreciated difference between musicians from different backgrounds. Clockfacers might see both chords as tritone substitutions while scale degreers will insist on the distinction.
@@JacobGran Wow, I did not expect the person whose videos I am watching to learn this stuff to comment in a different channel. Thank you by the way.
Thank you for the Prisoner reference at 5:34! Be seeing you!
I mean, if your getting the same set of notes and those notes are then serving the same harmonic function it's kind of hard to say that they're completely unrelated isn't it?
Easy one - both chords function as predominants but the aug 6th resolves up (and in common practice the 7th always resolves down).
Dude it would be so cool if you did a giveaway of your doodles after each video to your patreons or something.
I agree that the way Aug. 6th and TT subs are explained and taught is needlessly complicated. They’re different approaches to the same harmonic engine, shared tritones and secondary dominants. Teaching them as variations of each other makes sense, as I think “don’t make me learn the same thing twice” is a fair stance as student or learner.
Comparing Aug. 6th and TT subs is also a great avenue to talk about how even though Common practice is concerned with voice leading primarily and jazz Harmony is more vertical they both end up discovering this shared aspect of musical resolution. That’s the stuff that gets me excited as a student of theory and as a musician.
I agree so whole heartedly with this video, music theory is a wonderful and amazing thing but some of the pedagogy refuses to evolve. Fortunately we have people like you, 8-bit MT and Adam who are teaching and inspiring in a way that isn’t tied to the stock and stale methods of teaching theory.
Thank you for this video, I’ve never felt more heard or validated in my feeling on theory pedagogy.
Great video.
This is a type of conflict that occurs quite regularly and it's foundation comes from the varying cognitional types of people.
I happen to agree, that a name is just a word that has no inherent meaning other than to point to a concept.
In this case using the word differently is using it to point to a different concept. This bothers people.
But at the same time, if you broaden your understanding of the concept, you can see how the word itself can take on a broader meaning.
Sometimes words are used to address the application of a general concept. A single concept can be applied in many different ways and each way can have an associated word.
But other times a concept can stand independently from the way that it is applied.
It just boils down to the way that our cognition interacts with language.
No way is inherently wrong, as long as you understand the perspective of the person who is speaking.
Thank you for clarifying the use of your words in this video.
I've been arguing this hot take for years, but my reasoning has been different. I find that most people going to school for music basically aren't being fully equipped with the vocabulary and skills musicians would use in the real world. It's definitely true for working musicians, but honestly, teachers too should be knowledgeable so that we don't keep passing down ignorance based on pedagogical tradition (a major problem with musical academia in my opinion).
Your hot take is one of my key points on this. Most people with degrees in music literally can't tell you what a tritone sub is even though it's used all the time in music around as since jazz and its language (both musical and descriptive) has seeped so deeply into everything in music.
You also mention all the part-writing rules. I think it's absurd that we take freshmen music majors and immediately beat them over the head with part-writing rules when the big picture idea they should be taking is the importance of voice leading. They instead at best think of it as trying to write melodically independent lines, but at worst just think of it as a set of rules which they see broken in practice constantly... but with no real understanding of why.
Ultimately neither part-writing rules or aug 6 chords are very relevant to modern musicians. However, voice leading and tritone subs are (just to stick to two strong examples out of a huge basket).
Honestly I think that these belong more in a graduate level class for people who want to specifically study period writing conventions and shouldn't be the entry point for everyone getting a music degree these days. I mean, theory as taught essentially pretends the last 200-250 years didn't happen. It's honestly lacking the language to really explain chords larger than a 7th and complex relationships that come when you can essentially change key centers every few bars or just have more ambiguity in general.
I think musicians, most of which will stop after undergrad work, would get so much more about of understanding how to read chord symbols and understanding a more contemporary approach to harmony.
The upside of this is that it's all scales backward. I think aug 6 chords would make a lot more sense to someone who already understandings tritone subs. I think part-writing would make more sense to someone who already had a grasp on voice leading. Almost all of the common practice period specific cases are easier to understand through the much broader lens and vocabulary afforded to us from a contemporary theory understanding.
People who want to study CPP can, but the rest of the students at least won't be so completely ignorant when they step into the classroom and try to educate people through their extremely limit, myopic historical lens.
Great points!
I don't know theory, I don't really know anything other than stuff I've reverse-engineered, but I take tunes and rewrite them in parts (SATB) all the time, and I just write part of the line, first the alto, then the tenor, then the bass, then have the computer run through it to see how it sounds and adjust accordingly.
This is an EXCELLENT comment
It's rare that I'm glad that I've scrolled this far down in the comments
So much truth here... and don't even get me started on the pre-12tet bullshit some people teach. I was required at some point to make distinctions between chromatic half-steps (D-D#) and diatonic half-steps (D-Eb). Like, have these people ever seen a piano? Or a harpsichord, even?
Most of what's taught nowadays is based off of antiquated theory that stopped being relevant 150 years ago
Thanks for the new perspective. I have never really seen the aug6 chord presented this way before.
3:52
- Oops! You played a 'B' instead of a 'C', thus forming a Maj7 interval!
I think you mean "B instead of a B flat"?
@@LukasBolini No, he meant B instead of C.
@@captainalex8003 that's right. I was confused, as I was hearing a B and the interval properly, but it never occurred to me that it was the low C that wasn't being played
i like how you are left handed and write from right to left.
Subscribed, great content.
I believe the problem is assuming equal temperament - whereas harmonic analysis must have at its base a link back to the overtone series. There is always a tone either derived from the common overtones of two tones or implied as a part of the subharmonic series from either the sum or difference of the two tones sounding together.
As a theory teacher, and a former university student who frequently had to explain things like this to less theory-minded friends: SO MUCH THIS
Also, Nicole Biamonte was one of my theory profs in university, so it was cool to see her mentioned!!
I agree that theory should reflect the listening experience, but in this case I feel the difference really is audible from context, as enharmonics are in general too easily dismissed as just a labeling question. I‘d say in hindsight, the b-flat from a C7 chord that resolves to the a of the B7 like in your video, sounds ‚seventhish‘ while the a-sharp in say a german sixth over the root of f-sharp
... would resolve to the b and thus sound ‚leading-toney‘, no? I feel the difference is emphasized by the six-four cadential that follows the augmented sixth in most cases in the 18th/19th century.
I think that was a fantastic take on teaching aug6 chords, I remember being very confused by this and wish since I was familiar with jazz at the time that my classical theory prof. had used this approach. But alas, theory teachers of the time were still pretty anti jazz.
This is similar to the thing that has confused me the most about a single chord in Classical music - Schoenberg's augmented 9th in Verklärte Nacht. I think that the brouhaha is down to an inverted ninth actually looking like a different chord but it's a weird point...
You should read Carolyn Abbate's article, "Music-Drastic or Gnostic?" There is some nuggets in there that elaborate on the issue of what we hear vs. what we theorize in a vacuum.
At 3:53 a major seventh sounds (b-a#) instead of the written and described aug6 or min7 (c-a#/c-bflat)
How do I learn what you’re talking about
I think it's just a meme at this point but in my case every time he says something I don't quite understand (or don't understand at all), even if he explained it on the video, I'll just pause and search at the Wikipedia what it is - and then I'll try to do it on my instrument while watching other people doing too, on UA-cam or whatever. As he says at the end of the video, we really should be less concerned about the labels and more concerned about the music; so to learn a music theory concept, all you have to do is understand the musicality behind it.
ua-cam.com/video/rgaTLrZGlk0/v-deo.html
@@maxinemoreira7406 Or you could try Skill Share free for thirty days, link in the description :)
(sorry, I just felt like it had to be done)
@@rmdodsonbills lmao I just cracked at this thank you
I mainly watch this channel and Rick Beato for music theory learning, supplemented by a few music theory books. I don't recommend music school as it costs thousands of times more money to attend and you learn the same exact stuff (and probably a whole lot of stuff you don't give a damn about). I know everything I learned about common practice voice leading I have not used even once since.
I think C7 is correct not C augmented sixth. We need the B-flat to go down to an A on the B7 chord(in the e major example). You can see this in the chopin funeral march where the proggresion goes A7-G#7 - C# major. The chord A C# E G resolves to G# B# D# F#. Its one of the most powerful chords , especially when preceeded by the vi minor like in the chopin piece. A#minor going down to A7 is a very unique feeling
Question on the cartoon annotations. At 8:57, what does the drawing that looks like four little paintbrushes mean? I've seen it a lot here and don't understand it.
Completely off-topic, but "sixth" is an extremely difficult word to say IMO
It's like three consonants in a row!
@@MisterAppleEsq EXACTLY. English is a second language to me and some letter combinations are arduous- "sixth" has one such set :))
I've pronunced it like 'sickth' my entire life, properly voicing the x is impossible for me :P
@@Falaxuper I do something similar! It's more a fast "sick-s-th" though, but I often stumble a bit halfway in so it sounds like two syllables :(((
Plurals are even better. Twelfths are hilarious.
What if I were to suggest that an augmented sixth chord could have been derived by slightly altering the phrygian half cadence?
I'm scared
Yesterday I got the AB guide to music theory 2 and I read about this and it hurt my brain and now like 5 hours later this video is posted..........
This is the most over my head video I've ever watched from 12tone lol
The easy thing explaining the differences is that the enharmonic tones (aug sixth, minor seventh) points in different directions for their respective resolutions. Hence the need for two different musical explanations. In a tritone sub. you actually don't just sub the chords for each other you actually also swap enharmonics.
Mostly i'm just grateful that this video made me realize that i have misunderstood the tritone sub my whole life: i always thought it was a tritone away from the V, i.e. a flat-II resolving a half-step down to I. And to be fair i wasn't taught about tritone substitution in an classroom context, i only learned about it online, whereas the opposite is true for my understanding of the augmented-sixth.
One thing to note about the German Aug 6: it usually doesn't resolve straight to V, but rather to I64 (or i64) then V, thus alleviating the parallel fifths by letting the two voices move at different times.
src: university theory professor
I've got a question for you jazz cats out there. Is the tritone substitution already notated, or do you do it in your head while shredding that fat solo?
I love that you represent the 6 with _The Prisoner's_ awninged pennyfarthing.
kind of late here, but dominant 7th chords aren't the only tritone substitutions out there. IVm7 b5 can resolve to the root as it shares a tritone with VIIm7 b5, another dominant chord. I wonder how that would work in voice leading...
Theory is not just a way of describing music in a contemporary setting and usage. It is a way of understanding the mindset behind the people who made or heard the music in that era, and why they chose what they did based on what they knew then. Teaching rules leads to prescriptive practices, but teaching the theory of why leads to perspective practices, which allows a tolerance for ambiguity. The ability to hold two contrary reference points or ideas in one's mind is critical to having well educated students. A nuanced mind does not see things as either/or only. But in order to teach, it is necessary to teach generalizations at first in order to achieve the best result. Necessary evils, but a means to individuation and a deeper understanding. If the pedantic arguments about what is correct were removed, and replaced with the idea that there is no correct except from a perspective, which is only useful up to a point or to a real world example, many people would see theory as a useful tool for seeing as many options as possible, and not an oppressive rule book. Most people discussing music theory seem to see it as a dictionary, not a dialogue between artistic movements and a development along historical lines in a linear fashion, as literature is often taught (if it still is taught).
Aristotle did not write what you should do in his Poetics - he wrote about what he observed worked best during his time. It is a valuable perspective. Agree or not, it's how he thought and how people after him were taught of his thoughts, and it influenced others so it is wroth knowing. Yet some people still thought he wrote a rule book long after, followed the rules, then 'emancipated' themselves from something they never were oppressed by. So perhaps in another 2300 years we might get around this issue. Thankfully satire has a long shelf life as long as people mistake understanding a practice for being confined to a specific viewpoint, and wonder why a Philips head screwdriver doesn't work on a nail since they both push metal into wood, satirists will have a job. I enjoy the job security of humans making the same mistakes over thousands of years.
Sorry for dumb question. On the jazz arranging section of this video. Why find the secondary dominant? Is it a different chord than just going up a half step?
The contrapuntal way to understand the augmented 6 stems from the 6-8 resolution by contrary motion. e.g. D-B (major 6th) to C-C (octave), or D-Bb (minor 6th) C-C (octave). To get that extra harmonic tension and chromatic colouring, you flatten the D to Db and take the B natural and voilà: augented 6th. The other notes you put in there are just differently flavoured filler.
I've been watching your videos for a while now. I only just noticed you're left handed and now i can't stop noticing it and it makes it hard to pay attention.
Breaking the law, breaking the law... ♬♫
This has sparked an interest in classical composition. I've always played jazz but this seems... intriguing
Sorry for requesting something, but can you look over a Radiohead song? I am always confused by there time signatures and chord progressions. You put a lot of effort into your videos, so all I can say is thanks.
this was such an absolute masterpiece of video
Ger6: tritone sub (in place of II7)
Sw6 (swiss 6th: b6, 1, #2, #4, an enharmonically respelled Ger6 where #2 goes UP to 3 instead): tritone sub of II7 into a double suspension of V, where the 3 and 1 resolve down to 2 and 7 making the V chord (cadential 64)
Fr6: modification of II7 where the 6 (fifth of the chord) is flat
It6: Fr6 without the root, can also be thought of as a #IVdim modification similar to how VIIdim is like V7 without the root (5)
So only German and Swiss are tritone subs
Off-topic question: what software do you use to make the musical examples in these videos?
Okay I’m off to go do linear algebra. Yknow, something that makes sense.
I never even realised classical practice had a different name for the tritone sub. And I guess that's more or less making your point :)
The audio at 3:52 is a bit wrong :) that's a major seventh (or a double augmented sixth I guess).
Great video though! I've gotta say I've always been confused by the distinction between aug6 and tritone subs-maybe it's a cultural one?
I never understood the classical aug 6 chords in music theory, likely because I missed one of the classes discussing it and had to rely on someone's notes. Then again I hate the tedium of it all together.
what's the V7/IV in Qb major?
Every time I see one of your lessons I feel like Neo after his first download from Tank.
"Hell yes!"
Perhaps a point in favor of your case - I could never get tritone substitution until this video - the connections made it for me and it clicked.
As someone with both a jazz and classical background, and who was taught augmented 6ths and tritone subs separately, I can definitely say that being taught them simultaneously as different aspects of the same concept would be far more helpful and easier to remember and actually associate through context than to see them as two entirely different things! Of course teach the difference, but not the divide
There was kind of a mind blown moment for me in the beginning of this video. I NEVER fully "got" Augmented sixths. Like I knew that the German was a differently spelled dominant seventh and I understood their applications but I just viewed them as a stupid weird Romantic-Classical thing that I didn't care about. Never occurred to me to think of them like Tritone Subs. It's weird because we DO sometimes learn about Neapolitan chords *like* Tritone Subs, because both are *analyzed* as bII to a given tonic. But no one ever made the connection of Augmented Sixths to me. That would have made it make so much more sense to me! Although that could just be because of my background interest in jazz harmony, prior to and during my study of Augmented Sixths in my theory classes. For instance, the qualifying sentence, "Augmented Sixth chords are are like specialized Tritone Substitutions progressing to the Dominant with specific voice leading rules, typically used in the late Classical and early Romantic periods," would have done worlds of good towards my understanding of them.
You made me understand all three augmented 6th chords!!!! You genius.
lol it's just the same in the computer science circles, we fight over stuff like that all the time, for some people it's like a holy crusade
Very important note: The german augmented 6 isn't really historically used as you showed, it doesn't say "screw it" to parallelism, it is usually used with a suspension to to hide that movement or it simply transitions to another augmented sixth, parallel 5ths aren't actually strictly prohibited 100% of the time, but they aren't really allowed there either.
Nice.. Hi, please make analysis on sting's songs, like "Desert Rose", "Moon over Bourbon Street", or "When we dance". Those are cool songs. Thanks a lot, appreciate it..
How do you sketch dinky little cartoons like that in MuseScore?
I dont remember subscribing, but I like whats here
I haven't subscribed yet I was just recommended a video and enjoyed it
Andrew McReynolds I like that, that’s a nice “yet”
Music was by far the hardest subject in school for me and I think I just understood why, lol.
Another reason I'd argue the the Augmented 6th chord shouldn't be equated or taught the same as a tritone substitution is function; an Augmented 6th chord is exclusively a predominant chord, similar to a Neapolitan (6th) chord. In other words, you would NEVER equate an N(6) chord to a tritone sub because they are used differently. N(6) goes to V, or in other words, bII when used as an N(6) chord ONLY goes to V (or voice leads appropriately to V through using passing tones), whereas bII when used as a tritone sub is only dominant, and therefore should move towards tonic. In the same vein, you shouldn't equate the Aug6 to the tritone sub, because the Aug6 is exclusively predominant.
Watching your videos reinforces that i know just enough music theory to understand how lost i am
The way I had no idea what he was talking about this whole video...
Did I understand correctly that the difference between these two approaches depends on the equivalence of augmented 6ths and diminished 7ths because of equal temperament? That really makes me want to hear them contrasted in a temperament where they're actually _not_ the same.
I agree but calling a aug 6th the same as a minor 7th only works in theory and playing fix intonation instruments like the piano and guitar where A# and Bb sounds exactly the same, but in a violin you can play them differently because a major 2nd is divided in 9 equal parts and the # sharpens the note by 5 of those parts and the b lowers it by 5 also so they don't land on the same spot, Db is a little lower then C# and i believe we teach the different names to things that sound the same because they only sound the same in certain instruments. But like i said in the beginning, i agree with you, just teach it as the same things because they sound the same or almost the same cause people o play the violin for example they already know they have to deal with that intonation difference so there is no point complicating things for the others who just don't have to worry about it! ;)
Oooh nice 4d cube diagram (9:30)
The Ger+6 resolution without I64 hurt my soul
You are indeed a unicorn. Keep up the great work.
Loved using the Village bicycle for 6! :-)