Are Space Sounds Lies?
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- Опубліковано 28 лис 2022
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If a tree falls in space, and it's frequency is modulated by multiple octaves and digitized, does it make a sound?
Hosted by: Reid Reimers
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AUDIO
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You know the saying: in space no one can hear you scream, but they can capture your suffering and represent it using sound.
I mean technically speaking if you're screaming loud enough and if you had sensitive enough equipment you could technically hear your screams in space
Side note at this point you would basically be dead within about 30 seconds to 45 seconds
@@borttorbbq2556 It's possible for a pressure wave to propagate if its wavelength is greater than the mean free path of the particles and space isn't a true vacuum so sound can propagate through space but a person can't scream at anywhere near a low enough pitch for its wavelength to be long enough.
@@lunatickoala to be fair that is true so sadly it would be extremely cruel though you know basically cause someone's death would be an interesting experiment to see if there is in fact a situation where you could actually hear someone scream in the vacuum of space
Sounds about right
It's rather appropriate that a black hole's sound is dark, foreboding, and lonely.
That bloop that the meteorite made tho haha
Technically, whenever you use an instrument to enhance your observations-even a simple magnifying glass-you are getting modified information. But we understand the basics of magnification, and we accept the information we get through it as true-or rather, useful-and the magnifier becomes an understood extension of our eyes.
Ye, but to be fair, science is still great.
==>
It's just First 🌎🌍 Capitalism Problems
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
@@Hecarim420
An excellent problem to have!
What happens when someone knocks the cadence, " shave and a haircut" and leaves it hanging? Someone else will knock in time, "two bits."
If someone sings "Sweet Caroline," somebody will come back with "ba ba ba" in the same rhythm.
Before the timing gun was invented, mechanics would listen to an engine to fix the timing. (Good ones still do.) Sonar operators make their bread and butter and put their lives and the crews' on the line when they interpret an enemy submarine from a gathering of shrimp.
Hearing has its own rhythms, and when ones you expect are absent-like the _1812 Overture_ without a cannon going off- you get concerned. Or when some sound happens that shouldn't-like a car screeching in the street-you notice. It's a symphony that people interpret with their ears instead of their eyes.
There can be patterns in Cosmic symphonies that get lost in even the best-filtered light, but a person listening might pick it up instead. Listening for patterns is as valid as looking for them is.
In one of my favorite movies, _Sneakers,_ Robert Redford is kidnapped and put in a trunk and couldn't tell where he was. When he got free and returned to his friends, one of them-a blind man-turned on some sound tracks and had him say how the road sounded where they were driving. By asking about the sounds and corroborating them en route, they figured out where Robert Redford had been taken. It's a slick piece of detective work.
"through it as true-or rather, useful"
Usefulness isn't equivalent to truth (as pragmatists such as William James believed). Truth is correspondence to reality; not that which is useful.
@@CosmoPhiloPharmaco While usefulness doesn't inherently equal truth, truth is almost always useful, and approximations of truth equally so.
I remember hearing about translating data into sounds to gain new insight decades ago. It was from some "futuristic" show involving medical data, IIRC.
Thank you again, Reid, for bringing a lively narration to this video.
Ooooo the black hole sound was cool 😊
It only makes sense that if you can detect acustic vibrations through alternative means, you should be able to reconstruct them. We do that every day using electricity and radio waves. That's your run of the mill phone call, video or television broadcast. It reminds me of Professor Farnsworth's Smellascope. While smells may not be able to travel through space, detecting the chemical composition of something would allow for the scent to be reconstructed and exuded by such a machine. It's essentially a See & Smell.
Edit: Futurama, for those unfamiliar.
Some people are too hung up on info having to only be represented in its truest most raw form, otherwise they think it's a lie. But sometimes the truth is told better with little white lines. Or as is said by Albert Camus
"Fiction is the lie through which we tell the truth"
One could think of the depictions of stuff we normally couldn't sense with our measly human senses as a dramatization. You would never normally be able to experience X but what if you could? Well here is one way it could be interpreted.
Perceived color is something that happens in our brain likely with some kind of personal flavour. Colors are not objectively true to begin with, they are an evolutionary adaptation to detect wavelength variations in a narrow band. Any Infrared or X-ray imagery is just as real, even if we wouldn't be able to see it, being there in person.
Yeah, it's always been so weird to me. People have been getting their pants in a wad over things like Hubble images for years because "tHaTS NoT wHaT iT rEAlLy LOokS LiKe!!1!" For one, sometimes it actually pretty much is! They often use the visible spectrum for imaging objects in space and will generally say when they've done so. Even then, no it's not what your eyes would see. Your eyes suck; Hubble's "vision" is better. That should be a bonus, though. You're viewing something in even more detail and color than you ever could on your own. And when colors are applied to a non-visible spectrum image either to provide contrast or highlight different elements, that applies doubly so. Just because it's not what your eyes would see doesn't make it not real. We're taking very real light(thats invisible to us) and turning into something our eyes can actually perceive. This doesn't make it a lie. The same applies to other types of data c9llected and turned into something we can register with our senses, like sound. These are very real things we're observing, we just have such limited senses that we havebto modify this things for our own perception. That does not make them false. Sorry for the rant, this has always just gotten under my skin.
Another great video. This one was super cool. Really cool to learn about how the sound works thru space
The sound of a black hole is now going to be in my nightmares
Tantacrul has a great rant on this called "Sonification & The Problem with Making Music from Data"
I think the important thing is that sonification adds something to our experience of the data, and that it is represented and explained in a way that isn't too reductive. When it's done for purely aesthetic purposes, I find it often stupid and misleading. Every once in a while, another one of these will go viral on pop-science sites and will get handed down to non-scientists and less-informed enthusiasts under the guise that it is literally "the sound of Saturn" or something, while the data source isn't even sonic, or someone will sonify some sociological data but manipulate it until it sounds musical and nothing like the source.
Anyone who thinks that sound representations of electromagnetic emissions are lies should not be troubling their tiny minds with scientific matters.
Yikes.
These recreated sounds are translations from "universe" to "flesh".
The problem I have with these sonifications is that our ears aren't all that great at picking out details in the data; and, unless they came from something that literally makes sound we'd be able to hear if it weren't for volume, atmospheric, or distance limitations--they basically don't mean anything to our ears. It's more useful to look at data like this in other forms like a spectrogram rather than literally play it through speakers. Playing data through speakers is like looking at the waveform detected by a radio dish and asking what is the color the star the signal came from by eye.
Spectrograms are also just a representation of data.
Also we are perfectly fine at getting details from sound, if we practice. A good sonar operator can hear the distinct difference between different types of boats, etc. And don't tell me that sonar means something to our ears. Both passive and active sonar requires practice to be good at identifying something.
Sound is simply another way to represent the data and it gives another way to analyze it that might yield a different way of thinking about the analysis.
Screw that. I only consume pure QFT through Feynman diagrams. Oh, wait...
Seriously though, the only problem I have with "fake" images and sound is when serious research trickle down to pop-sci or big news outlets and are presented as the real thing.
Also just remembered something else.
Our brains are far better at finding patterns in sound (since we are literally wired for that) than we are looking at spectrograms.
The idea that sound is somehow an inferior way to represent something is a very unscientific way of thinking. Representing something in as many ways as possible can give a wide variety of opportunities to spot patterns.
This episode was so cool!
Honestly the various techniques for converting different kinds of information into sound seem like they would be super fun to experiment around with in a musical setting (\[•^€ ^• ]/)
The beat from The Eurythmics “Sweet Dreams” is the sound of the red spot on Jupiter. 🤯
🤯
@@LordBrittish as much as I like Annie, I'd say maybe the Marylan Manson version! lol
As a musician and nerd, I would be compelled to agree… same for binaural beats in a musical context… or sampling voices and animal sounds(no Alan Watts please🤣)….
I remember hearing about an astronomer, Wanda Diaz Merced, who was losing her vision and so was messing around with sonification of data to see what she could glean in her new circumstances. IIRC she found a pattern that wasn't visible on a graph, but was audible in the sonified data. I think those kinds of sounds are best understood as "representations" rather than lies-just because a graph of water level in a reservoir or something doesn't include literal to-scale pictures of the water doesn't mean it's lying, just representing a variable number conveniently.
5:36 It really fits the image
Reality at a very fine level is wavelike in nature. All of your senses detect various forms of vibration and translate it into qualia. Your qualia are intimately familiar to you and your senses are finely made calculations in sensory form.
Radio astronomers have already definitely heard the sound of klingon opera coming from Uranus.
I prefer to think of those images based on emissions from the non-light sections of the EMS as "what it might look like if we had a different visual range"...
The word to summon up everything is sonification the use of converting data into audio this is useful for many reasons for example at the hospital monitoring heart rate. Or to alert you your car is too close to another Object when parking it’s a big industry.
I think what a lot of people don't get about astronomy is that these observations aren't meant just for making pretty pictures for us to look at. They are trying to examine these objects for useful information. Like echo-cardiograms, they are tools for extracting meaningful data and translating that into a form that we can make use of.
If you can make a map of where all the ultra-violet emitting ionized gas is; or record the distribution of hydrogen in a nebula, then they chose those filters that show that.
Our eyes see things upside down and my brain corrects it. Also, we have too much visual information so the brain picks and chooses what is unimportant and what might be dangerous when we are looking around so we aren't swamped by the details. Our own brains modify incoming information to make it easier for us, altering space sounds is no different than how our senses *actually work*.
Your brain never sees an upside down picture.
In fact, your brain doesn't have anything to do with light.
You eyes convert light into electricity, and your brain uses that electricity to make a picture, basically like a computer does.
You can say “the brain is a differencing engine”….
@@lordgarion514 Look up how your eyes work. You do see things upside down and the brain corrects.
Some person once made a video about orbital relationship, "illustrated" with rhythms. Was it Steve Mold? Anyway, that was pretty cool
Are space sounds a lie? “Well yes, but actually no”
That black hole example sounds eerie.
The interesting thing about these kinds of "sensory extentoins" and the connection to art is that there's a sliding scale. The sounds and visuals are amazingly useful as long as you're not trying to CREATE patterns in them. But art requires modifying and creating patterns, so some art will make more "lies" of the stuff...but at the same time, make it more intriguing, and invite more study.
And the human mind sees beauty in patterns, so we will be more inclined to see art where the noise of the universe - even translated into our visual and audio spectrum "artificially" - is beautiful or scary or both, and that is useful.
I am a big fan of both the black hole groan that you've got there, and the "Saturn screaming" sound from another translation of I think radio waves off of Saturn's south pole into audio signal.
they should simulate how heavenly bodies would sound if they were surrounded by gas. sound travels through gas
if near a marker
Just like the cake, all over again.
Hi Reid!
love from M¨wxico Scidudes
When I hear the Carina Nebula sounds all I heard was the ps2 5:34
Virtually everything that we humans perceive about our environment and other information sources is an interpretation. We are just so accustomed to it all that we don’t recognize the fact. The conscious observer must recognize that and both the opportunities for enlightenment and deception that come along with it.
I was always told the static and his heard on radios and seen on old TV's was made by the radio waves from space hitting our planet and the antenna and then the signal is converted to the static or white noise. Isn't that sound from space? Used to fall asleep to it at "the end of our broadcast day" then the static and his which I think so many used to wake up to in the middle of the night but I guess that's a peace of history lost with the advent of digital over analog signals.
Anybody else get vibes of the opening bar from Next Episode by Dr. Dre with the Carina Nebula sound?
I find it easier to hear patterns in noise than see patterns in noise.
Know what'd be cool in a video about sounds? Clips of those sounds longer than a microsecond with nobody talking over them. I guess that's beyond us now, but a man can dream of the future
In case you missed it, this is a channel that gives you a basic rundown on things.
If you want details, then go find a 20 minute video.
@@lordgarion514 because it would be so terrible if a 7:55 video would be lengthened to 8:05
😂
@@lordgarion514 man you must be fun at funerals
They provided links to the full length clips in the description
4:28 Sounds like “the nme is in flag room, all home…’…continuum lol stretched 2
You will be happy to know that the Fungus gnat I saved on my spoon from my port wine jelly during that what made it off the spoon. Lol
Maybe light be turned into smells. In a smelloscope
It's not "bending the truth". It's art. And art is what we humans do. We create, art, and we learn from that art. Sonification can only be called a lie *if* it is presented as actually captured acoustic waves when the original was not an acoustical wave.
Nice.
So what you're saying is that we're listening to an "Alvin and the Chipmunks" remix of the universe.
Is it me, or did the sound of the Carina Nebula sound like the startup sound of a late 90's computer?
Still don't see how they aren't photographs just because our eyes cannot see those frequencies.
Well a red color isn't really red. It might be infrared.
I'd say they are just as much a photograph as any digital photo is.
It is no more a lie then reading a book that is translated. Is Shakespeare in French a lie?
5:38 some PlayStation people over there
Hello Darkness, my old friend.
In reality humans warp all data into concepts and ranges we can understand. Our concepts of time and scale and distance color literally everything we perceive. For all we know, CERN has created thousands of universes that blinked out of existence in fractions of a second to us, but were billions upon billions of years old to whatever was inside them.
Apt alternative facts
The “musical” space sounds (along with the “I attached electrodes to plants and they make beautiful music!”) that make the rounds every once in a while drive me nuts. It’s not an honest representation of the “sound” something is making, it’s just taking data points, assigning a value to each datum, and creating a cypher between those data values and a diatonic scale on a midi instrument.
It’s not “what space/trees/whatever sounds like” - it’s an automated graphical diatonic cypher programmed by a musician using an aesthetically curated sonic pallet utilizing the equivalent of a macguffin for an input for the purposes of communicating a marketable artist’s statement to an audience to hopefully foster algorithm-friendliness and free viral marketing from online shares and pop science journalism attention.
All those headlines didn't explain how they were actually getting the sound
It's a lie indeed - in the case of the colliding black holes. No, *insert tabloid here*, we didn't "hear" a black hole merger. We recorded gravitational waves and we just choose to put the waves through a speaker. That doesn't change the fact that they're just not a sound. They make gravitational waves and humans don't have the (direct) means to sense them.
It's like trying to taste a color, but worse, because at least we have a different sense for light. We don't have a sense for gravitational waves.
I need metal pictures
Maybe there's to much interference over light-years to send a decipherable message
Are supernovae soundless?
How tf are we alive in this universe
Like Mars....
Not w/ no gravity and or vaccum
Whales on Earth can be heard around the World, so that means Space sounds must be Space Whales.. its science folks
Everything I know is a lie!!! But it makes it way cooler~
Edit: spell check
No spelling errors!!😂😂
@@stevenlubick2689 No such thing! Nevah!
I'm fighting a loosing battle trying to convince my Father that we have already been to the moon, enhanced/modified space sounds and photos don't help.
I would rather see an actual photo of almost nothing that a scientific version of an artist's impression, but, boring doesn't attract financial investments
Yes, it's all lies - UNLESS you have the best equipment available to record it. Check out my recordings of natural radio emissions from SPAAAAAAACE!!!
Ooo
I can hear 13 Hz.
I can FEEL 13hz
@@paultorbert6929 I can feel 59 octaves below 13 Hz
What a horribly irresponsible thing to say the images from JWST aren't real because they don't use the part of spectrum that our eyes use. It's all energy that these structures emit. Just because it's not in the INCREDIBLY narrow part of the electromagnetic spectrum we call "visible spectrum", doesn't mean the data isn't accurate.
yep very lies
The sound of wind on Mars is just the sound static noise against the microphone. Like what people hear over the phone when you're in the wind. There's not even any leaves to rustle
I knew it. The earth is flat. (Kidding)
Was this seriously needed? Like I thought this was obvious.
WINDS on Mars... Obviously real sound. Its recorded on Mars, then sent to us so that we can hear the actual audio file. Just like sound recorded here on earth. But the sound of ripples represented in a gas cloud 1000 lightyears away... No thats not sound. Thats interpreted, modulised, manufactured here. Then played back to us so that we can sort of imagine how things work. But its not sound. Its not recorded from space.
And I think this is a bad thing to do. Because people who know, they know. But people that arent space nerds. They get confused when they hear conflicting information. Is there sound in space? No... There certainly is not. And it just becomes confusing information. Which is then used to sensationalise trivial stuff. As always.
There is no audible sound in space , but there is sound . In my opinion it isn't that complicated to understand that there is sound that we can't hear as there is light that we can't see . It is the same as saying space is empty , when we know it isn't empty. In the past simplifying space had no consequences , but now we know that these waves , and flows of the interstellar medium play a role in star formation , and the interplanetary medium protecting the solar system from cosmic rays .
@@m.c.4674
No........ There is no sound in space. You can turn it inside out and upside down all you like. But there isnt any.
@@captain_context9991 ua-cam.com/video/lDzBe0_SLVo/v-deo.html
So we need to dumb down all popsci to the lowest common denominator? If these non-space nerds you speak of can't pick up that they aren't real sound when it's clearly stated in the video, I'm not sure why they're watching it.
@@m.c.4674
Dude... Scott Manley is a very reasonable person. He isnt going to tell me there is sound in space either. If you think he does, then you misunderstand what he is talking about.
1:18 No one has ever given a good explanation for why light is the only thing that can propagate through nothing. There is no justification for this statement even though we are told this from an early age.
Because light isn't just a wave, it's also a particle.
Pretty much everything can move through nothing.
The only reason sound can't travel in space is because sound isn't a thing on it's own. Sound is simply an effect caused by matter moving in the shape of a wave. If there's no matter to move, then sound can't exist.
Third
First
Fourth
Fifth
OKKKKKKK... I can hear menstrual cycles.. you just need to shift the frequency up to something human can hear....
Lies
space is not empty. you are too blind by the lies you feed yourself to see the truth for what it is.