Paul Roberts I played this symphony with the Central Washington University Symphony Orchestra, and, the suggested quarter note tempo of 176 for the second movement just wasn't fast enough to get that desperate feeling. So, we played the second movement several times, each time pushing the tempo a little bit faster. When we finally found the right tempo, we clocked ourselves at 216!!!
Oh. My. God. I spent the evening comparing recordings of this movement. I need compare no more. From my perspective, these kids and this insanely gleeful conductor just beat the daylights out of Solti/Leningrad.
Duh. Of course if the video is 4 minutes long then the performance is shorter. 3:56! A world record lol! But seriously, an impressive performance of one of my favorite pieces--what an adrenaline rush!
There is no argument; this is the most energetic and powerful rendition of this movement I've ever heard. Can't believe this is a youth orchestra! Dudamel is amazing.
This orchestra is one of the most amazing orchestras I've heard because of all the emotion and power they perform with. Not many group have this soul when they play. This youth symphony is better than many professional American orchestras in my opinion...
This is a personal symphony written by a superstar composer who belongs to all mankind and not to exclusively to USSR. His language has now become understandable by many and his message has touched many more. For some time we thought that the best performances of this DSCH masterpiece were rendered by Karajan and Mravinsky but here comes along a Venezuelan who is most endowed with transcendent mental superiority and blows everyone's sucks off! Good for you Gustavo and good for you Venezuela.
ughgh, i can't get over this video. A) this orchestra is gigantic, and yet they play with the most precise and clear sound. B) this is easily the best interpretation and quality of recording i've heard, and it's done by people that are all, i think, under the age of about 20? absolutely mind blowing. and like everyone else said, crazy fast tempo and they eat it up like they could go another 20 clicks faster. absollutely amazing
Some players thrive off the energy and phrasing given by the conductor. If a conductor was to only give a downbeat, all the individual voices of the players would clash. It is up to the director to decide so that all the performers come together as one voice. They do not serve as a personification of confidence but rather a personification of the style of the piece. There is a reason why conductors such as Barenboim, Dudamel,Bernstein, Peter Oundjian and most others give more than a downbeat.
I've played this before. I've always wanted the tempo to feel on the edge of collapse - really that is what Stalin represented. Perhaps the most respected recording of this piece (Leningrad Philharmonic - Mravinsky (which is the symphony and conductor Shostakovich dedicated most of his symphonies to)) plays a tempo very very close to this one. It is to contrast the other movements which are much slower in comparison.
I cannot get over how awesome this movement is. And my goodness, is this really a youth orchestra? Impressive. This has nothing to do with the music, but I also really love the camera panning at 0:57. :)
As usual from Dudamel, a five-star performance! To be regarded as one of the best recordings of the piece, along with Karajan's. The guy's face to the bottom left of Dudamel at 3:55 proves this all.
-Primero que nada, he estudiado a Shostakovich a fondo, he visto videos y mucho contenido de él y puedo asegurarte que sé como era y se lo que queria para sus sinfonias, el cerrado estás siendo tu al no aceptar una opinion tan valida como la tuya. En ningun momento digo que Dudamel es un loco, al contrario lo admiro mucho, joder! Yo lo unico que te puedo asegurar que si Shostakovich estubiara, le diria personalmente a Dudamel que está muy rápido, solo eso y no interferiria más.. o si
Solo he dicho que la versión es muy rápida y no es como Shostakovich quiere que suene su sinfonia... solo eso. Voy a todo esto porque se lo que jode componer algo y que el director lo toque más rapido dando de motivo que quiere dar su propia versión e interpretación. En ningun momento digo que Dudamel o la orquesta sean malos. por dios.. hace unos años atras tuve la opurtunidad de tocar bajo la direccion de dudamel en Santiago de chile y me pareció un gran maestro.
y bueno, no sigo respondiendo más porque no tiene sentido. Tecnicamente hablando hay cosas que no se entienden por la velocidad, le quita el poder que tiene ese movimiento a pesar de lo genial que es la orquesta. Es una simple opinion de alguien que conoce mucho a Shostakovich. Y estoy seguro que Dudamel tiene sus motivos bien justificados para hacer su versión...
Bueno el director es excelente y para que decir de l orquesta, pero esto no es lo que escribió Shostakovich y menos lo que quería que sonara, pero para gustos hay colores. Podrás escuchar la 40º de Mozart en todas las velocidades... pero cual es la que quería Mozart? solo pone Allegro... Shostakovich escribe el tempo con números.... Saludos...
Quien soy yo? primero ante nada, soy un ser humano que no necesita ser alguien para poder dar una opinión. También tengo estudios suficientes sobre Shostakovich, seguro que más que tu, para darme cuenta que la versión se aleja mucho a lo que Shostakovich quería para su sinfonía. Dudamel es un excelente director, seguro que el tendrá sus motivos para darle esa velocidad...
Pero te puedo asegurar que si Shostakovich estuviera escuchando, le recordaría que ese no es el tempo ( ojo, solo recordárselo, no obligarlo a cambiarlo... el director seria lo suficientemente inteligente para hacerle caso al compositor)...
Este trabajo es casi perfecto, desde el atrilero, pasando por los camarógrafos y llegando a la orquesta y su director. Es increible la forma como los camarografos ya tienen preparadas las camaras para las tomas de los solistas antes de que los solistas toquen su solo.
Once you hear this, you can’t unhear it. Shosty’s arrangement of the 2 piano arrangement indicates he wanted it this fast. Beautiful orchestra! Bravissimo!
Virtuosity, passion, fury, fierce, devastating angryness, one of the most powerful music ever composed. Chostakovitch is a Master !!! And I adore Dudamel, it's a conductor who conducts with an irresistible joy, whatever the score. Great performance ! When I hear this music, I see horribles war's pictures, all the bitterness's composer in this short but very impressive movement.
This guy may very well bring classical music back to the popular arena. I can't believe he's only 27! And to think, the members of his orchestra were poverty-stricken youth that music saved from a life of tragedy. Viva Gustavo!!!
a mi me parece que es una buena versión este movimiento las versiones que hay lo hacen mas lento, pero si la orquesta en facultad de tocarlo a esta vedlocidad por que no hacerlo? además eso es otra cosa cada quien hace su propia versión de una obra, ya depende del criterio del interprete si esta transgrediendo o no las intenciónes que tinene el compositor. Pero yo creo que un director del tamaño de dudamel no sería tan inrespetuoso de cometer tal atropello Creo q
The second movement is a short and violent scherzo, described in Testimony as "a musical portrait of Stalin, roughly speaking".However, according to musicologist Richard Taruskin, this proposition is a "dubious revelation, which no one had previously suspected either in Russia or in the West".
And the spot on precision of Reiner too! ----------------------------- Rolf, Netherlands. I am a collector of classical 78's and lp's Click "otterhouse" above to see (and hear!) some of my collection.
Muy Rápido.... esto no es shostakovich... Ya... son muy buenos musicos y pueden hacerlo rápido... pero mala versión que les ha quedado solo por la velocidad...
@alejoeisabel, the fact you didn't hear any our interpretation doesn't mean there were no interpretations at all :D BTW, you frequently don't understand what is the best interpretation is. The best example is Tchaikosvkiy's Russian Dance from Swan Lake: you just can't play it properly. Shostakovich pieces are different story though, but it's because many our virtuoses were abroad in 1990s.
I'm not neonazi, I just said the truth: slavs are not agressive enough. Just compare the ice hockey: how US and canadian players play, and how russian players do. Well, russian is more skillfull, but not so agressive as north american players (they are usually anglosucksons). It's germanic nature: being agressive. I compare slavs to myself (I'm hun descendant), and I found myself to be much more agressive than the most of slavs, although I'm typical one within my turkic relatives.
yeah, these guys are amazing.. Venezuela has such a top-notch music education program. I feel like i've been misinterpreted.. I love this video and this piece, and the only joy I feel from this video is from the fact that it was uploaded for us to enjoy. Regarding the music itself, "joy" isn't really an emotion I would associate with this particular piece. Brutal, violent suppression of joy perhaps?
You have to hand it to whoever administers this orchestra: in order to achieve the greatest dramatic effect, just follow a brute force approach - double the number of players for each section. So this symphony, which demands little more than a standard 100 member orchestra, uses one more appropriate for Mahler's 8th. Compare with Solti's interpretation also in this site. Quantity over quality results in *real* Venezuelan virtuosos being ignored, and I am pretty sure there are plenty out there.
It was a very stirring performance of this famous violent movement. But I find it just a HAIR too fast to actually be the best affective tempo, the off-beat brass accomapaniment almost sounded a little off-track because it was a little difficult to actually tell what those chords are syncopated against. Also, the 2nd crash symbol was late for a beat. But non the less, it was still a very great performance.
I don't think it being a youth orchestra has anything to do with it, I think it's just the way he is. I don't mind his movements so much, it's his facial expressions that bother me. I see him smiling at parts of the piece that sound the most intense and stressful, and I'm sure it's not because he doesn't understand the music, but because he really enjoys what he's doing/the sound and energy he's getting from the orchestra. I just don't like watching him lol.
I don't feel any sense of joy in this performance at all.. and frankly I find it rather strange that some people here seem to, but I guess I can't argue. I just feel pure anger, power, and energy. To each his own though, I'm not about to discredit someone else's interpretation, this is just my view.
i didnt know that music is abbout politics? why do you simply listen to this nice music! should we stop to listen to wagner because hitler loved his music? lets find each other in the music and not in politics ! greetings from belgium (europ)
lol I honestly thought one of the violinists was going to jump out of his seat at one point. But yea, it's kind of hard to keep a straight face and count when the conductor is....well shaky to say the least. Nonetheless, amazing group, amazing music. =]
arileable mira alejoeisabel, te informo esta orquesta no se debe a chavez , es el maestro ABREU, Fundó y dirigió la Orquesta Sinfónica Simón Bolívar (OSSB), así como también la Orquesta Sinfónica Nacional Juvenil (1975) y la Fundación del Estado para el Sistema Nacional de Orquestas Infantiles y Juveniles (FESNOJIV), que es una red de orquestas infantiles, juveniles y coros que involucra cerca de 250 mil jóvenes músicos. ..
Parece que hoy en día el público no se contenta "sólo" con la música escrita por los grandes compositores: hoy hace falta servirla con el ingrediente del "espectáculo". Directores que sean guapos, o que llamen la atencion.. o que quieran llamar la atencion con algo que no está en la partitura como por ejemplo un tempo excesivamente rápido. Todo eso ayuda a la música o es vanidad de vanidades?
si tu problema es el tempo, entonces mravisnky tambien estuvo pelado con sus versiones viendolo desde tu punto de vista(y era mravinsky si quieres busca su version y buscate un metronomo pa que veas y compares)... no eres el unico que se queja por esto ya hubo otro por ahi hace tiempo criticando lo mismo, pero no hay wiro cada quien puede opinar lo que quiera, es solo para que tengas en cuenta que alguien que sabe mas que tu y que el mismo dudamel se "equivoco" en las narices de shostakovich
Es cierto lo que dice PabellonOriental, aunque tengan estudios acerca de Shostakovich, no es lo mismo estar escuchándola a este ritmo y tiempo que es rápido y que verdaderamente es como debería de ser, ´cuando la escuché por primera vez la piel se me puso chinita de la fuerza la intensidad, la pureza con la que se está interpretando y podría decirse hasta como un himno por la muerte de Stalin, que tantos problemas tuvo con Dmitri.
miren esta orquesta en primer lugar es una de las mas talentosas del mundo entero, porque para tocar en los festivales y lugares en los que ha tocado necesitas tener merito y ganartelo!!! Además de que esos son niños que los sacan de las calles y los alejan de las drogas por tanto tiene tambien un lado humano!! Ademas si dicen esas cosas es porque estan envidiosos de que sus paises no tengan una orquesta tan buena que los represente y sea el orgullo de su pais gracias a Dios nosotros si!!!
Muy cierto pero: 1ro. Es "culturizarte" NO "culturisarte" 2do. Luego de punto y seguido se inicia con una vocal o consonante en mayuscula luego de su respectivo espaciado. 3ro. No es "deve" sino "debe" 4to. No es "ahy" sino "ahi" y con acento para cuando transcribas en Word 5to. No es "nisiquiera" sino "ni siquiera" (con espacio) Creo que tu tambien deberias CULTURIZARTE un poco mas. Saludos.
bien dicho jjrivas69 También es cuestión de costumbre, mucha gente está acostumbrada a escuchar este movimiento por orquestas europeas y creen que como ellos lo toquen todos deberían tocarlo asi. Además no entiendo cual es el punto de la persona que dijo "muy bonito, rapido, buen sonido, articulado, vibrante etc etc pero suena mal" ????? Además ya una orquesta de este renombre puede tocar al tiempo que se le antoje, no son ningunos amateurs para regirse por un modelo europeo o whatever
Me gusta tu argumento y coincido contigo en que Mravinsky es el mejor interprete de shosta. y no sólo de el sino de de toda la música rusa. pero siento tener que porfiarte pero mravinsky en la versión del '76 marca este mov a 186 y no a 176 como dijiste que se debia llevar. la de dudamel también ronda por los 186, he usado un metrónomo para comparar, el oido no me engaña, yo se que tu sabes bastante, pero los grandes también se equivocan y me refiero a mravinsky.
es cierto lo que dice sergio y estoy de acuerdo. tambien es cierto que no solo es shostakovich, sino mucha musica la que esta siendo tocada mucho mas rapido... el cuarto mov de la 4ta de tchaikovsky dirigido a 2!! alguien mas lo ha visto?? esto se debe a que el nivel de ejecucion de los musicos ha aumentado considerablemente y los directores se pueden dar el "lujo" de hacer esto... pero hay que mantenerse en un rango...
@alejoeisabel, I know this, but they learnt how to fight only after 3 years of the war: they had killed ratio < 1 before 1944 (In 1941 it was 0.1, in 1942 - 0.3, in 1943 - 0.8, in 1944 and 1945 ~1.5).
Have you seen the documentary? These kids work SOOOOOO hard at a very young age! Hard to believe, but they have TERRIFIC educators and opportunities and THAT is why music should stay in our schools!
Only people from communists dystopias acknowledges the true intention of Shostakovich...this is a portrait of the devil. Well done, El señor Dudamel. Finally someone realises that this isn't supposed to sound beautiful and tempo must be FAST.
I think it its an electryfing performance. If you don't look to Mr. Dudamel, who seems under a electric discharge effect, you'll found the music so closer to the composer's intentions :S
Gustavo Dudakovitch ... thank you ! Please, I want to hear now Gustavo Dudakovief ... (the 5th symphony please ....) and then Gustavo Dudamahler in the 6th ... and then .... BRAVO SBYOV
Terrific reading. I have the complete Haitink recordings which I love but this is also terrific. I like Dudamel. And this mvmt in particular was Shosty saying to Stalin "I beat you!"
cant say its to slow!! yeh, wat a energy is going on this orchestra, as some of you say it isnt the best performance ,but its a special one! greetings from belgium alain
También no hay que seguir al pie de la letra las obras musicales ya que varía deacuerdo con el estilo del director y también por los gustos más recientes como Orquesta Jóven como lo es la Simón Bolivar que debe de tener ritmos acelerados, por eso ha tenido tanto éxito este director y la orquesta. No hay que cerrarnos a las leyes sino sentir la música como debe de ser.
Hermano violinnnitam, respeto ansolutamente tus conocimientos y opiniones musicales, aunque se siente cierto grado de, digamos, envidia? en tus comentarios. Esto es solo mi percepcion del asunto en vista que representas el 1% de las opiniones negativas sobre la conduccion de Gustavo. Saludos desde Barquisimeto - Venezuela
Pues si, es bueno que exista el guardian de la norma, pero que seria de la musica si no existiesen quienes se la saltasen de buena forma. Ademas que es el tiempo si no el mas relativo de todos los conceptos. Seguro que el corazon de Dudamel y el de los jovenes de esa orquesta puede latir mucho mas veloz que el de otros.
Babo por dudamel babo por la OJSB. Interesante la discusion sobre el tempo de este movimiento, lo oi una vez y me impresiono, luego de leer los comentarios acerca de la imposibilidad de entender la obra a tal velocidad la volvi a oir de nuevo y me gusto mas, la volvi a oir ya hora me he vuelto adicto a este movimiento.
Entonces Shostakovich nunca asistio a ningún ensayo de esta sinfonia con Mravisnky, he tenido la oportunidad de escuchar este movimiento con él y la F de leningrado y es apenas 2 segundos más lenta que esta, es incorrecto lo que hizo Mravinsky?
As a composer I would certainly not mix Trumpets in C with B-flat trumpets. If you wan't a B-flat brass instrument go for a Cornet in the orchestration.
Vasily Petrenko's version, with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, is even a little bit faster and I find it as energetic as Dudamel's. I adore this one anyway. Both Petrenko and Dudamel give the best renditions of this movement here on UA-cam.
Es mil veces preferible la limpia espontaneidad de Dudamel que el horrible acartonamiento de Karajan. Karajan es un producto comercial, mientras que Dudamel es arte puro.
yes music is a language that transmit or sugest emotion using sound,and the venezuelan young orchuestra is excelentin this together with Dudamel; my comment was made in the sense that after reading a lot of other comments, isaw a reluctant to even consider that this 2nd movement had some technical "unsoundness", and some comments look to be either musicians of the orchestra or close people to them; again, this 2nd movement is not easy and can challenge the best musicians, other movements were ok
Isn't music mostly about the emotion? If you want to talk about the "growth of musicians", then you should reconsider taking a look around. This type of emotional portrayal is lacked throughout many musicians. You have to understand that this young orchestra has a modernized interpretation of music. It isn't so much of the technicality, but more about putting on a show. And they've succeeded.
@cives No,it SEEMSthat you'rea bit pretentious.I obviously was not making a factual statement that I believed was true,but merely putting my opinion forward that I really like this particular movement.I suppose you must be able to make a judgement more valid than mine because you've listened to every classical work ever written?Because your opinion is the only one that counts and everyone should listen to it?If I said "I'm so tired,I'm dying,"would youbelieve that I actually thought I was dying?
Yes he is having a battle with a ghost, the ghost of Stalin. Shostakovitch said that this was a musical representation of Stalin. You have to interpolate the characteristics of the man. His mercurial nature, his terrifying power and his apparent simplicity. The whole symphony turns on Shostakovitch's reaction to Stalin's death. In the 4th movement he is dancing on his grave! It's quite clear once you know that the 2nd movement is Stalin's theme and the DSCH motif is that of Shostakovitch!
@Seirra54 Whoa! Cool! We'll be Dickinson. It'll sound something like, 'And here on the field is the Dickinson Gator Marching Band, performing their show, * *** *******. Drum majors are so and so and so and so. Dickinson, is your band ready? You may take the field.' :D Woo! I'm pumped. Idk if I'm allowed to start telling the show and stuff, so I'm not going to. lol I play the horn part, which is most of the low brass stuff.
@ahbahpuh Please tell me why the best interpretation of the Russian Classics are not done by Russians, since the end of the SU, Russian culture has been in decline. Where are all the post Soviet Russian composers? Oh yeah, you have great Russian HipHop Bravo. Post Soviet Russia has been a cultural failure. Even poor third world Venezuela produces better interpretation of your music. Oh the money for culture was stolen sorry. Oh, gulags are being resurrected.....nostalgia.
Possibly Edo de Waart (for all I know - yours truly hardly even knows what he looks like); however, most certainly NOT Sir Georg Solti, who was already dead for over 9 years by then... The odds, in my honest opinion, are that Sir Georg would have loved this interpretation. [After all, Solti was not really at home in the Russian repertoire - Italy, Germany and Hungary were his musical stomping grounds...]
One more thing I've just noticed (probably others of you will have noted it!): Dudamel is conducting this (and likely everything else of that programme) _from memory_!!!! [It seems as if he doesn't even have a music stand for a score! I could be wrong...] If so, all the more power to him (on top of a performance that only betrays the relative inexperience of his musicians in that very 1st chord as being just a hair's-breath less together than all the others! Absolutely 5/5!
FANTASTIC!!!!! Sorry, but I MUST extol the sheer energy and precision of this ensemble as well as the extreme brutality and bitterness expressed by this piece, brought out simply BRILLIANTLY here (and I never thought I'd give this kind of accolade to a youth orchestra!!!). [Excellent recording too, & extra players help!] Compared to this, Ashkenazy, Levi, Rahbari, even Kogán & Solti ALL sound tame!! [Karajan & Rostropóvich are better though slower.] & I favour slower tempi generally!
I can disagree here: one most certainly sees a steady stick speed and a clear ichthus in this performance!! [This from somebody who's studying conducting relatively late in life - and I've watched this performance several times now...] [By that same definition you no doubt would think of Herbert von Karajan as a terrible conductor for not being always the most precise (he left his Berliners room for their intelligence to get where exactly accents were meant to fall).]
Your English is better than most folks in the U.S. (I live in L.A.); but you're right: all the naysayers need to listen to the music, the entire orchestra, not focus on Dudamel's hair!,He's only 5'4", after all. And Gustavo is NOT some monomaniac who feels he has to stand apart from the orchestra...he's just part of the whole thing, and he DOES love the music. He's the most positive conductor to come around in years, and I'm 63 so I know that! Good for you for making that point.
@fitzgerald1337x With none, however I do recognize good conducting when I see it, and have been studying conducting on many levels for years. I teach high school and college. There is much more to conducting than looking like you forgot to take your epilepsy medicine that day. Look up an article called "The Conductor's Process" by Jameson Marvin, Senior Lecturer and Director of Choral music at Harvard. It will give you a good bit of enlightenment.
uh, I dunno if that was an insult or something else, but whatever. See, I'm young. And I know I'm immature. Sometimes I'm aware of immature things I do, sometimes I'm not. I'm aware that leaving that comment was immature, but I did it anyway. And I like the piece, and I know that the conductor is a good one for doing what he's doing, but through the eyes of a callow foolish "homeboy" as you call us, it's pretty damn funny as well.
hey,homeboy, did you ever see Dinosaur Jr, where they spend their entire set tossing 24" locks of hair over their instruments? 'course I'm 63, a friggin' veteran, but I can't recall a note of their music--just the hair. Jane's Addiction-MUCH better. Can't you watch these young players and feel the passion, watch Gustavo and feel like "Wow, this man's amazing". You're lucky. So much to learn!! Geezeret
Wow, this has to be the fastest version of this I have ever heard. Well executed and does not sound rushed or out of control at all. Brilliant!
The funny thing is that Shostakovich wrote this at half note = 116 and this is only around 96 or so. So he meant it to be even FASTER than this.
Paul Roberts I played this symphony with the Central Washington University Symphony Orchestra, and, the suggested quarter note tempo of 176 for the second movement just wasn't fast enough to get that desperate feeling. So, we played the second movement several times, each time pushing the tempo a little bit faster. When we finally found the right tempo, we clocked ourselves at 216!!!
Pollen Applebee The tempo marking in my part is 176 to the quarter note.
cellogirl11RW In the score I have it says half note = 116. Fucking impossible to do
@@mlefeb she said quarter note. Translated as 108 to the half note
Oh. My. God. I spent the evening comparing recordings of this movement. I need compare no more. From my perspective, these kids and this insanely gleeful conductor just beat the daylights out of Solti/Leningrad.
Duh. Of course if the video is 4 minutes long then the performance is shorter. 3:56! A world record lol! But seriously, an impressive performance of one of my favorite pieces--what an adrenaline rush!
There is no argument; this is the most energetic and powerful rendition of this movement I've ever heard. Can't believe this is a youth orchestra! Dudamel is amazing.
Concordo plenamente com você. !!!!!!
This orchestra is one of the most amazing orchestras I've heard because of all the emotion and power they perform with. Not many group have this soul when they play. This youth symphony is better than many professional American orchestras in my opinion...
This is a personal symphony written by a superstar composer who belongs to all mankind and not to exclusively to USSR. His language has now become understandable by many and his message has touched many more. For some time we thought that the best performances of this DSCH masterpiece were rendered by Karajan and Mravinsky but here comes along a Venezuelan who is most endowed with transcendent mental superiority and blows everyone's sucks off! Good for you Gustavo and good for you Venezuela.
I just timed it. This is 180 beats per minute. Holy crap.
And we played part of this in our marching show last year XD
+Jacob Ramsey this was my closer
I know, right?! 😱I played this with college symphony orchestra a few years ago, and we ended up taking it at 216!!😰
It is written at 232 BPM (116 = half note)...so...yeah...it's supposed to be blazing fast
cellogirl11RW might’ve been an estimate he gave
Unbelievably gorgeous for such young musicians. They blow me away every time I listen.
...
*this sounds like star wars*
BUT IN VENEZUELA
Man's expressive, joyous, and individualistic spirit shone through Shostakovich's music, so irrepressable, not even Stalin could destroy it.
Esta pieza me hizo la vida imposible cuando estaba en la orquesta jaja
Qué fortuna la tuya 😊!
ughgh, i can't get over this video. A) this orchestra is gigantic, and yet they play with the most precise and clear sound. B) this is easily the best interpretation and quality of recording i've heard, and it's done by people that are all, i think, under the age of about 20? absolutely mind blowing. and like everyone else said, crazy fast tempo and they eat it up like they could go another 20 clicks faster. absollutely amazing
Some players thrive off the energy and phrasing given by the conductor. If a conductor was to only give a downbeat, all the individual voices of the players would clash. It is up to the director to decide so that all the performers come together as one voice. They do not serve as a personification of confidence but rather a personification of the style of the piece. There is a reason why conductors such as Barenboim, Dudamel,Bernstein, Peter Oundjian and most others give more than a downbeat.
I've played this before.
I've always wanted the tempo to feel on the edge of collapse - really that is what Stalin represented. Perhaps the most respected recording of this piece (Leningrad Philharmonic - Mravinsky (which is the symphony and conductor Shostakovich dedicated most of his symphonies to)) plays a tempo very very close to this one.
It is to contrast the other movements which are much slower in comparison.
"Allegro?" More like "Prestissimo!" Good Lord, that is blazing fast!
And to think it was written for half note = 116 bpm (232 bpm)
.............
@@mauithedemigod189 That is dangerously fast, most music played by both wind bands and orchestras average around 90-150 (general estimate)
That "going out of sync" in that manner & under such circumstances is known for strings as "staggered bowing".
I like to refer to this song as "Stalin's Theme"
oh my god. the fact that this song exists makes me feel like no one needs to write anything anymore, how could anything top this?
I cannot get over how awesome this movement is. And my goodness, is this really a youth orchestra? Impressive.
This has nothing to do with the music, but I also really love the camera panning at 0:57. :)
Today, our orchestra played this symphony. When we reached this movement, everyone that was sleepig woke up. Best symphony ever written.
The best interpretation of this symphony Ive heard so far.
Haha XD Absolutely NO LIVING SOUL clapped between the movements! That is edicate at it's finest!
As usual from Dudamel, a five-star performance! To be regarded as one of the best recordings of the piece, along with Karajan's. The guy's face to the bottom left of Dudamel at 3:55 proves this all.
In my 59 years - neither have I.. And I can't get over the fact that this is a YOUTH orchestra which in itself is nothing short of amazing...
Jesus
Thomas Goodrich agreed
-Primero que nada, he estudiado a Shostakovich a fondo, he visto videos y mucho contenido de él y puedo asegurarte que sé como era y se lo que queria para sus sinfonias, el cerrado estás siendo tu al no aceptar una opinion tan valida como la tuya. En ningun momento digo que Dudamel es un loco, al contrario lo admiro mucho, joder! Yo lo unico que te puedo asegurar que si Shostakovich estubiara, le diria personalmente a Dudamel que está muy rápido, solo eso y no interferiria más.. o si
Solo he dicho que la versión es muy rápida y no es como Shostakovich quiere que suene su sinfonia... solo eso. Voy a todo esto porque se lo que jode componer algo y que el director lo toque más rapido dando de motivo que quiere dar su propia versión e interpretación. En ningun momento digo que Dudamel o la orquesta sean malos. por dios..
hace unos años atras tuve la opurtunidad de tocar bajo la direccion de dudamel en Santiago de chile y me pareció un gran maestro.
y bueno, no sigo respondiendo más porque no tiene sentido. Tecnicamente hablando hay cosas que no se entienden por la velocidad, le quita el poder que tiene ese movimiento a pesar de lo genial que es la orquesta. Es una simple opinion de alguien que conoce mucho a Shostakovich. Y estoy seguro que Dudamel tiene sus motivos bien justificados para hacer su versión...
Bueno el director es excelente y para que decir de l orquesta, pero esto no es lo que escribió Shostakovich y menos lo que quería que sonara, pero para gustos hay colores. Podrás escuchar la 40º de Mozart en todas las velocidades... pero cual es la que quería Mozart? solo pone Allegro... Shostakovich escribe el tempo con números....
Saludos...
Quien soy yo? primero ante nada, soy un ser humano que no necesita ser alguien para poder dar una opinión. También tengo estudios suficientes sobre Shostakovich, seguro que más que tu, para darme cuenta que la versión se aleja mucho a lo que Shostakovich quería para su sinfonía. Dudamel es un excelente director, seguro que el tendrá sus motivos para darle esa velocidad...
Pero te puedo asegurar que si Shostakovich estuviera escuchando, le recordaría que ese no es el tempo ( ojo, solo recordárselo, no obligarlo a cambiarlo... el director seria lo suficientemente inteligente para hacerle caso al compositor)...
Este trabajo es casi perfecto, desde el atrilero, pasando por los camarógrafos y llegando a la orquesta y su director. Es increible la forma como los camarografos ya tienen preparadas las camaras para las tomas de los solistas antes de que los solistas toquen su solo.
Once you hear this, you can’t unhear it. Shosty’s arrangement of the 2 piano arrangement indicates he wanted it this fast. Beautiful orchestra! Bravissimo!
Fucking Banger
Virtuosity, passion, fury, fierce, devastating angryness, one of the most powerful music ever composed. Chostakovitch is a Master !!! And I adore Dudamel, it's a conductor who conducts with an irresistible joy, whatever the score. Great performance ! When I hear this music, I see horribles war's pictures, all the bitterness's composer in this short but very impressive movement.
0:01 emotiza
This guy may very well bring classical music back to the popular arena. I can't believe he's only 27! And to think, the members of his orchestra were poverty-stricken youth that music saved from a life of tragedy. Viva Gustavo!!!
Awesome job on one of the best symphonic works ever!
a mi me parece
que es una buena versión
este movimiento las versiones que hay lo hacen mas lento, pero si la orquesta en facultad de tocarlo a esta vedlocidad por que no hacerlo?
además eso es otra cosa cada quien hace su propia versión de una obra, ya depende del criterio del interprete si esta transgrediendo o no las intenciónes que tinene el compositor.
Pero yo creo que un director del tamaño de dudamel no sería tan inrespetuoso de cometer tal atropello
Creo q
The second movement is a short and violent scherzo,
described in Testimony as "a musical portrait of Stalin,
roughly speaking".However, according to musicologist Richard Taruskin,
this proposition is a "dubious revelation, which no one had previously
suspected either in Russia or in the West".
And the spot on precision of Reiner too!
-----------------------------
Rolf, Netherlands.
I am a collector of classical 78's and lp's
Click "otterhouse" above to see (and hear!)
some of my collection.
Muy Rápido.... esto no es shostakovich...
Ya... son muy buenos musicos y pueden hacerlo rápido... pero mala versión que les ha quedado solo por la velocidad...
Las partituras muestran un tempo mayor a este.
Mucha palabreria para poco contenido.
@alejoeisabel, the fact you didn't hear any our interpretation doesn't mean there were no interpretations at all :D BTW, you frequently don't understand what is the best interpretation is. The best example is Tchaikosvkiy's Russian Dance from Swan Lake: you just can't play it properly. Shostakovich pieces are different story though, but it's because many our virtuoses were abroad in 1990s.
I'm not neonazi, I just said the truth: slavs are not agressive enough. Just compare the ice hockey: how US and canadian players play, and how russian players do. Well, russian is more skillfull, but not so agressive as north american players (they are usually anglosucksons). It's germanic nature: being agressive. I compare slavs to myself (I'm hun descendant), and I found myself to be much more agressive than the most of slavs, although I'm typical one within my turkic relatives.
yeah, these guys are amazing.. Venezuela has such a top-notch music education program.
I feel like i've been misinterpreted.. I love this video and this piece, and the only joy I feel from this video is from the fact that it was uploaded for us to enjoy. Regarding the music itself, "joy" isn't really an emotion I would associate with this particular piece. Brutal, violent suppression of joy perhaps?
You have to hand it to whoever administers this orchestra: in order to achieve the greatest dramatic effect, just follow a brute force approach - double the number of players for each section. So this symphony, which demands little more than a standard 100 member orchestra, uses one more appropriate for Mahler's 8th. Compare with Solti's interpretation also in this site. Quantity over quality results in *real* Venezuelan virtuosos being ignored, and I am pretty sure there are plenty out there.
It was a very stirring performance of this famous violent movement. But I find it just a HAIR too fast to actually be the best affective tempo, the off-beat brass accomapaniment almost sounded a little off-track because it was a little difficult to actually tell what those chords are syncopated against.
Also, the 2nd crash symbol was late for a beat. But non the less, it was still a very great performance.
I don't think it being a youth orchestra has anything to do with it, I think it's just the way he is. I don't mind his movements so much, it's his facial expressions that bother me. I see him smiling at parts of the piece that sound the most intense and stressful, and I'm sure it's not because he doesn't understand the music, but because he really enjoys what he's doing/the sound and energy he's getting from the orchestra. I just don't like watching him lol.
on aurait dit une musique de film, genre star wars :D
I don't feel any sense of joy in this performance at all.. and frankly I find it rather strange that some people here seem to, but I guess I can't argue. I just feel pure anger, power, and energy. To each his own though, I'm not about to discredit someone else's interpretation, this is just my view.
I'm playng whit Dudamel now in Milano at La Scala the opera Boheme...for me is a number 1!!!!play whit him is a dream...
i didnt know that music is abbout politics?
why do you simply listen to this nice music!
should we stop to listen to wagner because hitler loved his music?
lets find each other in the music and not in politics !
greetings from belgium (europ)
lol I honestly thought one of the violinists was going to jump out of his seat at one point. But yea, it's kind of hard to keep a straight face and count when the conductor is....well shaky to say the least. Nonetheless, amazing group, amazing music. =]
arileable
mira alejoeisabel, te informo esta orquesta no se debe a chavez , es el maestro ABREU, Fundó y dirigió la Orquesta Sinfónica Simón Bolívar (OSSB), así como también la Orquesta Sinfónica Nacional Juvenil (1975) y la Fundación del Estado para el Sistema Nacional de Orquestas Infantiles y Juveniles (FESNOJIV), que es una red de orquestas infantiles, juveniles y coros que involucra cerca de 250 mil jóvenes músicos. ..
Parece que hoy en día el público no se contenta "sólo" con la música escrita por los grandes compositores: hoy hace falta servirla con el ingrediente del "espectáculo". Directores que sean guapos, o que llamen la atencion.. o que quieran llamar la atencion con algo que no está en la partitura como por ejemplo un tempo excesivamente rápido. Todo eso ayuda a la música o es vanidad de vanidades?
si tu problema es el tempo, entonces mravisnky tambien estuvo pelado con sus versiones viendolo desde tu punto de vista(y era mravinsky si quieres busca su version y buscate un metronomo pa que veas y compares)... no eres el unico que se queja por esto ya hubo otro por ahi hace tiempo criticando lo mismo, pero no hay wiro cada quien puede opinar lo que quiera, es solo para que tengas en cuenta que alguien que sabe mas que tu y que el mismo dudamel se "equivoco" en las narices de shostakovich
Es cierto lo que dice PabellonOriental, aunque tengan estudios acerca de Shostakovich, no es lo mismo estar escuchándola a este ritmo y tiempo que es rápido y que verdaderamente es como debería de ser, ´cuando la escuché por primera vez la piel se me puso chinita de la fuerza la intensidad, la pureza con la que se está interpretando y podría decirse hasta como un himno por la muerte de Stalin, que tantos problemas tuvo con Dmitri.
miren esta orquesta en primer lugar es una de las mas talentosas del mundo entero, porque para tocar en los festivales y lugares en los que ha tocado necesitas tener merito y ganartelo!!! Además de que esos son niños que los sacan de las calles y los alejan de las drogas por tanto tiene tambien un lado humano!! Ademas si dicen esas cosas es porque estan envidiosos de que sus paises no tengan una orquesta tan buena que los represente y sea el orgullo de su pais gracias a Dios nosotros si!!!
Muy cierto pero:
1ro. Es "culturizarte" NO "culturisarte"
2do. Luego de punto y seguido se inicia con una vocal o consonante en mayuscula luego de su respectivo espaciado.
3ro. No es "deve" sino "debe"
4to. No es "ahy" sino "ahi" y con acento para cuando transcribas en Word
5to. No es "nisiquiera" sino "ni siquiera" (con espacio)
Creo que tu tambien deberias CULTURIZARTE un poco mas.
Saludos.
bien dicho jjrivas69
También es cuestión de costumbre, mucha gente está acostumbrada a escuchar este movimiento por orquestas europeas y creen que como ellos lo toquen todos deberían tocarlo asi. Además no entiendo cual es el punto de la persona que dijo "muy bonito, rapido, buen sonido, articulado, vibrante etc etc pero suena mal" ????? Además ya una orquesta de este renombre puede tocar al tiempo que se le antoje, no son ningunos amateurs para regirse por un modelo europeo o whatever
Me gusta tu argumento y coincido contigo en que Mravinsky es el mejor interprete de shosta. y no sólo de el sino de de toda la música rusa. pero siento tener que porfiarte pero mravinsky en la versión del '76 marca este mov a 186 y no a 176 como dijiste que se debia llevar. la de dudamel también ronda por los 186, he usado un metrónomo para comparar, el oido no me engaña, yo se que tu sabes bastante, pero los grandes también se equivocan y me refiero a mravinsky.
es cierto lo que dice sergio y estoy de acuerdo.
tambien es cierto que no solo es shostakovich, sino mucha musica la que esta siendo tocada mucho mas rapido... el cuarto mov de la 4ta de tchaikovsky dirigido a 2!! alguien mas lo ha visto?? esto se debe a que el nivel de ejecucion de los musicos ha aumentado considerablemente y los directores se pueden dar el "lujo" de hacer esto... pero hay que mantenerse en un rango...
@alejoeisabel, I know this, but they learnt how to fight only after 3 years of the war: they had killed ratio < 1 before 1944 (In 1941 it was 0.1, in 1942 - 0.3, in 1943 - 0.8, in 1944 and 1945 ~1.5).
Have you seen the documentary? These kids work SOOOOOO hard at a very young age! Hard to believe, but they have TERRIFIC educators and opportunities and THAT is why music should stay in our schools!
Only people from communists dystopias acknowledges the true intention of Shostakovich...this is a portrait of the devil. Well done, El señor Dudamel. Finally someone realises that this isn't supposed to sound beautiful and tempo must be FAST.
It looks and sounds like they're all 1st chairs, haha....
Everyone's playing with the same energy, it's so amazing to watch.
I think it its an electryfing performance. If you don't look to Mr. Dudamel, who seems under a electric discharge effect, you'll found the music so closer to the composer's intentions :S
Gustavo Dudakovitch ... thank you !
Please, I want to hear now Gustavo Dudakovief ... (the 5th symphony please ....)
and then Gustavo Dudamahler in the 6th ...
and then ....
BRAVO SBYOV
Terrific reading. I have the complete Haitink recordings which I love but this is also terrific. I like Dudamel. And this mvmt in particular was Shosty saying to Stalin "I beat you!"
cant say its to slow!!
yeh, wat a energy is going on this orchestra,
as some of you say it isnt the best performance ,but its a special one!
greetings from belgium
alain
También no hay que seguir al pie de la letra las obras musicales ya que varía deacuerdo con el estilo del director y también por los gustos más recientes como Orquesta Jóven como lo es la Simón Bolivar que debe de tener ritmos acelerados, por eso ha tenido tanto éxito este director y la orquesta. No hay que cerrarnos a las leyes sino sentir la música como debe de ser.
Hermano violinnnitam, respeto ansolutamente tus conocimientos y opiniones musicales, aunque se siente cierto grado de, digamos, envidia? en tus comentarios.
Esto es solo mi percepcion del asunto en vista que representas el 1% de las opiniones negativas sobre la conduccion de Gustavo.
Saludos desde Barquisimeto - Venezuela
Pues si, es bueno que exista el guardian de la norma, pero que seria de la musica si no existiesen quienes se la saltasen de buena forma. Ademas que es el tiempo si no el mas relativo de todos los conceptos. Seguro que el corazon de Dudamel y el de los jovenes de esa orquesta puede latir mucho mas veloz que el de otros.
Babo por dudamel babo por la OJSB.
Interesante la discusion sobre el tempo de este movimiento, lo oi una vez y me impresiono, luego de leer los comentarios acerca de la imposibilidad de entender la obra a tal velocidad la volvi a oir de nuevo y me gusto mas, la volvi a oir ya hora me he vuelto adicto a este movimiento.
Entonces Shostakovich nunca asistio a ningún ensayo de esta sinfonia con Mravisnky, he tenido la oportunidad de escuchar este movimiento con él y la F de leningrado y es apenas 2 segundos más lenta que esta, es incorrecto lo que hizo Mravinsky?
As a composer I would certainly not mix Trumpets in C with B-flat trumpets. If you wan't a B-flat brass instrument go for a Cornet in the orchestration.
When I heard this live played by the Seattle Symphony, I kid you not this movement actually struck massive amounts of fear in me when they played it
@reev9759 I doubt it. I think it's just him trying to be mysterious with his facial expressions since that section calls for that sort of emotion.
This movement has a very strong clear message. If you mess with us we will crush you! Love it. This crushes the Leningrad phil recording I have.
Vasily Petrenko's version, with the Royal Liverpool Philharmonic Orchestra, is even a little bit faster and I find it as energetic as Dudamel's. I adore this one anyway. Both Petrenko and Dudamel give the best renditions of this movement here on UA-cam.
@iwanabana i thinks its by someone named higginbottom, but im not sure about the spelling of the name. il msg u later and tell you
Amaizing performance!
Wow!
But for my taste too fast, also too static and soft in frazing... but it's just me... so dont flame me!
As annoying as the conductor is to watch, he's done an excellent job with the orchestra/interpretation of this piece. Amazing
I imagine the audiences view of the conductor is a tad more flattering than our view XD
Es mil veces preferible la limpia espontaneidad de Dudamel que el horrible acartonamiento de Karajan. Karajan es un producto comercial, mientras que Dudamel es arte puro.
@slateflash
Yeah, get a score dude...
yes music is a language that transmit or sugest emotion using sound,and the venezuelan young orchuestra is excelentin this together with Dudamel; my comment was made in the sense that after reading a lot of other comments, isaw a reluctant to even consider that this 2nd movement had some technical "unsoundness", and some comments look to be either musicians of the orchestra or close people to them; again, this 2nd movement is not easy and can challenge the best musicians, other movements were ok
Isn't music mostly about the emotion? If you want to talk about the "growth of musicians", then you should reconsider taking a look around. This type of emotional portrayal is lacked throughout many musicians. You have to understand that this young orchestra has a modernized interpretation of music. It isn't so much of the technicality, but more about putting on a show. And they've succeeded.
@cives No,it SEEMSthat you'rea bit pretentious.I obviously was not making a factual statement that I believed was true,but merely putting my opinion forward that I really like this particular movement.I suppose you must be able to make a judgement more valid than mine because you've listened to every classical work ever written?Because your opinion is the only one that counts and everyone should listen to it?If I said "I'm so tired,I'm dying,"would youbelieve that I actually thought I was dying?
Yes he is having a battle with a ghost, the ghost of Stalin. Shostakovitch said that this was a musical representation of Stalin. You have to interpolate the characteristics of the man. His mercurial nature, his terrifying power and his apparent simplicity. The whole symphony turns on Shostakovitch's reaction to Stalin's death. In the 4th movement he is dancing on his grave! It's quite clear once you know that the 2nd movement is Stalin's theme and the DSCH motif is that of Shostakovitch!
@Seirra54 Whoa! Cool! We'll be Dickinson. It'll sound something like,
'And here on the field is the Dickinson Gator Marching Band, performing their show, * *** *******. Drum majors are so and so and so and so. Dickinson, is your band ready? You may take the field.'
:D Woo! I'm pumped. Idk if I'm allowed to start telling the show and stuff, so I'm not going to. lol I play the horn part, which is most of the low brass stuff.
@ahbahpuh Please tell me why the best interpretation of the Russian Classics are not done by Russians, since the end of the SU, Russian culture has been in decline. Where are all the post Soviet Russian composers? Oh yeah, you have great Russian HipHop Bravo. Post Soviet Russia has been a cultural failure.
Even poor third world Venezuela produces better interpretation of your music. Oh the money for culture was stolen sorry. Oh, gulags are being resurrected.....nostalgia.
Possibly Edo de Waart (for all I know - yours truly hardly even knows what he looks like); however, most certainly NOT Sir Georg Solti, who was already dead for over 9 years by then...
The odds, in my honest opinion, are that Sir Georg would have loved this interpretation. [After all, Solti was not really at home in the Russian repertoire - Italy, Germany and Hungary were his musical stomping grounds...]
One more thing I've just noticed (probably others of you will have noted it!): Dudamel is conducting this (and likely everything else of that programme) _from memory_!!!!
[It seems as if he doesn't even have a music stand for a score! I could be wrong...]
If so, all the more power to him (on top of a performance that only betrays the relative inexperience of his musicians in that very 1st chord as being just a hair's-breath less together than all the others!
Absolutely 5/5!
FANTASTIC!!!!!
Sorry, but I MUST extol the sheer energy and precision of this ensemble as well as the extreme brutality and bitterness expressed by this piece, brought out simply BRILLIANTLY here (and I never thought I'd give this kind of accolade to a youth orchestra!!!). [Excellent recording too, & extra players help!]
Compared to this, Ashkenazy, Levi, Rahbari, even Kogán & Solti ALL sound tame!! [Karajan & Rostropóvich are better though slower.] & I favour slower tempi generally!
I can disagree here: one most certainly sees a steady stick speed and a clear ichthus in this performance!! [This from somebody who's studying conducting relatively late in life - and I've watched this performance several times now...]
[By that same definition you no doubt would think of Herbert von Karajan as a terrible conductor for not being always the most precise (he left his Berliners room for their intelligence to get where exactly accents were meant to fall).]
Your English is better than most folks in the U.S. (I live in L.A.); but you're right: all the naysayers need to listen to the music, the entire orchestra, not focus on Dudamel's hair!,He's only 5'4", after all. And Gustavo is NOT some monomaniac who feels he has to stand apart from the orchestra...he's just part of the whole thing, and he DOES love the music. He's the most positive conductor to come around in years, and I'm 63 so I know that! Good for you for making that point.
@fitzgerald1337x
With none, however I do recognize good conducting when I see it, and have been studying conducting on many levels for years. I teach high school and college. There is much more to conducting than looking like you forgot to take your epilepsy medicine that day.
Look up an article called "The Conductor's Process" by Jameson Marvin, Senior Lecturer and Director of Choral music at Harvard. It will give you a good bit of enlightenment.
uh, I dunno if that was an insult or something else, but whatever. See, I'm young. And I know I'm immature. Sometimes I'm aware of immature things I do, sometimes I'm not. I'm aware that leaving that comment was immature, but I did it anyway. And I like the piece, and I know that the conductor is a good one for doing what he's doing, but through the eyes of a callow foolish "homeboy" as you call us, it's pretty damn funny as well.
hey,homeboy, did you ever see Dinosaur Jr, where they spend their entire set tossing 24" locks of hair over their instruments? 'course I'm 63, a friggin' veteran, but I can't recall a note of their music--just the hair. Jane's Addiction-MUCH better. Can't you watch these young players and feel the passion, watch Gustavo and feel like "Wow, this man's amazing". You're lucky. So much to learn!!
Geezeret