I think it comes down to how conscious you want to be of cutting. If you want to enjoy the ritual, the process, etc, then Japanese knives are perfect because they cut at the highest level but require care of their steel and thought to avoid chipping. German knives are ideal for not thinking about the blade. It cannot retain its sharpness for long but it does not punish you for carelessness with water, acidity, or chipping.
I use both and being a butcher can say from experience that a hard edge is great for some circumstances if you know how to properly sharpen them. A 60+ hardness knife will eventually dull and will take quality whetstones and sharpening that are likely beyond the average buyer of Japanese knives in North America to get back to the factory edge.
The bolster problem when sharpening my knives is the biggest reason why I am shopping for alternatives. I am more than ready to pull the trigger on a Japanese petty knife with a flat profile and would like to set up a phone consultation to select one that meets my needs. Is that something you would entertain?
Hey Ether! Sorry for the late reply, we'd be super happy to hop on a call and talk through some of the options you have for pettys! You can give us a call anytime mon-sat 11-6 when were in the shop or shoot us an email to schedule a call if that works better for you!
Pull/push is definitely superior to rocking as long as your knife is sharp. Like you said, some tasks like herbs make rocking more appropriate. Good vid. I'm biased towards japanese knives and barely have experience with german or french. Would love to own a vintage carbon sabatier someday.
I've played with some vintage sabs, shame the new ones are such junk. However the bolster still kills it for me, be ready to put in some elbow grease grinding that bad boy down if you pick one up, especially if its been well used and sharpened up the height of the blade. Might need some thinning at that point to!
I'm confused by this statement. If the weight of the handle/balance is properly aligned with the rocking of the cutting it seems that the effort is less with letting the knife fall naturally with little effort and push the food forward versus having to move my entire arm in the pull/push format. It takes far less effort and arm movement with a western knife to cut smaller ingredients via rocking if the knife is balanced to do so. Gentle rocking versus constant sawing motion
I have a vintage carbon steel Sabatier and boy, does it a lot of maintenance. Once I make it shine after an hour of sanding and polishing, it takes just a few days before it becomes grey and boring. I prefer the triple layer Japanese blades with a carbon center and a softer stainless steel on both sides.
More and more Geman makers have become aware of the bolster-thing and are making knives without full bolsters, also because they're losing market share to Japanese makers for that reason.
What matters is who use knife. It is not whether German or Japanese. I am a professional chef. I prefer German over Japanese. German is all purpose. Japanese knife often cheap and break easily.
Half bolster is better than either a full bolster or no bolster. They're much more comfortable than no bolster, and they negate the issues of the full bolster. I wish more Japanese knives had half bolster, or at the very least would round off their spine and choil.
Respectfully, this comparison has numerous flaws... This video should be named more like "Machine Made Vs Handmade Quality Knives" First of all, that knife design we know today as your typical "German knife" originally was popularized by Solingen craftsmen, in this day and age, however, this characteristic design pretty much became the epitome of mass produced machine made run-of-the-mill stamped stainless steel knife the making of which involves no human hands anymore. It is produced around the world by numerous countries in billions, so there is hardly anything "german" left in it. "Western" Knives displayed in this video at the right side are the perfect example. However, if REAL HISTORICAL GERMAN KNIVES are concerned... ...and by "real" I mean 100+ year old heritage designs, carbon steel and traditional Solingen handicrafts, then we simply have to compare the poster-child of it, the *_Robert Herder 1922 series!_* As everybody can research, there is a substantial difference between the historical German/Solingen design (as preserved by Robert Herder in form of their "Windmill knives") and what passes today as "german". The edge is pretty much as thin as your typical Japanese gyuto, and no, "Solinger Dünnschliff" or "Solingen thin grind" isn't a "copy" of the Japanese, it is much older than Gyuto and Santoku designs, so is the special polish called "Blaupließten". *7:46* If we take a look at Herder 1922, we see that its bolster is much slimmer than modern day stamped bolsters, and it curves slightly upwards so stone sharpening can be applied without problems. For some hands-on proof, watch "Herder 1922 schärfen Chosera 1000/3000/5000". Basically, those modern day bolsters are nothing more than a dysfuctional mass production artifact, which doesn't have the fuctionality of its historical counterpart anymore. *7:55* When you look at the example of the "bolster divot" in this video, it becomes apparent that it was created NOT by stone sharpening but rather one of those cheap modern "kitchen knife sharpeners" - which pretty much destroy your knives long term. If bolstered knives are worn down with sharpening stones, they lose their "belly" along the edge but leave no "divots" like shown here. In a nutshell, this video shows how stamped mass produced knives "german style", which have been sharpened with "kitchen sharpeners" and honing rods only, are no match for modern day handmade or half-handmade Japanese knives. And with that I agree 100%. If actual _German_ knives are concerned, it should be a video comparing apples with apples, like *_Robert Herder 1922 series 10'' chef knife VS Masamoto KS_* Now THAT would be a true Germany Vs Japan!
I find softer knifes useful for different tasks. I use a chinese cleaver most of the time, I can hone that on the back of a plate. No need to get out the stones. The balance point of most 10" inch german style blades is as forward as most japanese ones. it depends on the size.
Get over the bolster hate. You can take it off with a file. If you use a knife professionally, it's just knife maintainance. If you are a home cook, it's a once every couple of years, if, maintainance chore
I live not too far from you guys is your store open store open I mean can I come inside And can you make a video suggesting knives knives under Five hundred
Most of our knives are under 500, and you can get a fantastic knife for that much of considerably less! Best is really subjective but we'd be happy to help you find the right fit you if you come by, or shoot us a call or message on instagram!
i always prefer japanese knives even these japanese style made in china xd feel , performance handling way better than our german knifes and btw not all german knife have this chunky fat bolster . i also prefer push/ pull cuts not this rockingmotion . i cut myself twice very deep once i lost a hole fingernail and a bit of the nail bed wich took almost 3months to heal ^^ and both with a german knive and this rockingmotion . funny fact i never had similiar issue with one of my japanes ones
I think it comes down to how conscious you want to be of cutting. If you want to enjoy the ritual, the process, etc, then Japanese knives are perfect because they cut at the highest level but require care of their steel and thought to avoid chipping. German knives are ideal for not thinking about the blade. It cannot retain its sharpness for long but it does not punish you for carelessness with water, acidity, or chipping.
I have a Wusthoff classic ikon and it doesn't have the sharpening problem because the bolster is only towards the top.
Wüsthof*
I agree with all these comments you made. In Argentina, we are still deceiving ourselves with the knives made in Solingen.
I use both and being a butcher can say from experience that a hard edge is great for some circumstances if you know how to properly sharpen them.
A 60+ hardness knife will eventually dull and will take quality whetstones and sharpening that are likely beyond the average buyer of Japanese knives in North America to get back to the factory edge.
Nothing new, but i really like your vids.
Greetings from Germany...with a thumb up
Thanks for watching!
The bolster problem when sharpening my knives is the biggest reason why I am shopping for alternatives. I am more than ready to pull the trigger on a Japanese petty knife with a flat profile and would like to set up a phone consultation to select one that meets my needs. Is that something you would entertain?
Hey Ether! Sorry for the late reply, we'd be super happy to hop on a call and talk through some of the options you have for pettys! You can give us a call anytime mon-sat 11-6 when were in the shop or shoot us an email to schedule a call if that works better for you!
Nice video. Love the PIOTR knife block, but gear aside, a video which will help many understand the differences between the two.
Glad you liked it!
Never thought about the bolster and sharpening 🤔 very useful information 🎉
The bolster really gets in the way!
@@GrantHendrick
Yeah, but it doesn't
@@grantsmith505 For me it changes the angle when sharpening and does not allow a complete slice. Glad you don’t have those issues.
Pull/push is definitely superior to rocking as long as your knife is sharp. Like you said, some tasks like herbs make rocking more appropriate.
Good vid. I'm biased towards japanese knives and barely have experience with german or french. Would love to own a vintage carbon sabatier someday.
I've played with some vintage sabs, shame the new ones are such junk. However the bolster still kills it for me, be ready to put in some elbow grease grinding that bad boy down if you pick one up, especially if its been well used and sharpened up the height of the blade. Might need some thinning at that point to!
I'm confused by this statement. If the weight of the handle/balance is properly aligned with the rocking of the cutting it seems that the effort is less with letting the knife fall naturally with little effort and push the food forward versus having to move my entire arm in the pull/push format. It takes far less effort and arm movement with a western knife to cut smaller ingredients via rocking if the knife is balanced to do so. Gentle rocking versus constant sawing motion
I have a vintage carbon steel Sabatier and boy, does it a lot of maintenance. Once I make it shine after an hour of sanding and polishing, it takes just a few days before it becomes grey and boring. I prefer the triple layer Japanese blades with a carbon center and a softer stainless steel on both sides.
I would love to see at least one video on cutting techniques! I have a quick-powder santoku, and the choo-choo train is a MAJOR problem for me.
Thats a great idea, well put it on the list!
Very helpful video! Thanx for sharing
There are many german knife models without a bolster that can be sharpened all the way in the same way as a japanese. Just saying
But, why do you think, that the up and down chopping motion is more efficient? That is just an assertion you make without any evidence.
great video bro, keep up the good work
Thanks, will do!
German knives are good as well but the only thing i hate about it is that bolster that comes all the way down to the heel.
Zwilling have a Pro series without the bolster.
More and more Geman makers have become aware of the bolster-thing and are making knives without full bolsters, also because they're losing market share to Japanese makers for that reason.
Thank you Gage. A very good video again!
Yes! This!!!
What matters is who use knife. It is not whether German or Japanese. I am a professional chef. I prefer German over Japanese. German is all purpose. Japanese knife often cheap and break easily.
I love my wusthof classic knives, I could never get into the Japanese knives, even if I had the money to spend on the higher end ones
Half bolster is better than either a full bolster or no bolster.
They're much more comfortable than no bolster, and they negate the issues of the full bolster. I wish more Japanese knives had half bolster, or at the very least would round off their spine and choil.
Great video.
Thank you.
Glad you liked it!
Respectfully, this comparison has numerous flaws...
This video should be named more like "Machine Made Vs Handmade Quality Knives"
First of all, that knife design we know today as your typical "German knife" originally was popularized by Solingen craftsmen, in this day and age, however, this characteristic design pretty much became the epitome of mass produced machine made run-of-the-mill stamped stainless steel knife the making of which involves no human hands anymore. It is produced around the world by numerous countries in billions, so there is hardly anything "german" left in it. "Western" Knives displayed in this video at the right side are the perfect example.
However, if REAL HISTORICAL GERMAN KNIVES are concerned...
...and by "real" I mean 100+ year old heritage designs, carbon steel and traditional Solingen handicrafts, then we simply have to compare the poster-child of it, the *_Robert Herder 1922 series!_*
As everybody can research, there is a substantial difference between the historical German/Solingen design (as preserved by Robert Herder in form of their "Windmill knives") and what passes today as "german". The edge is pretty much as thin as your typical Japanese gyuto, and no, "Solinger Dünnschliff" or "Solingen thin grind" isn't a "copy" of the Japanese, it is much older than Gyuto and Santoku designs, so is the special polish called "Blaupließten".
*7:46* If we take a look at Herder 1922, we see that its bolster is much slimmer than modern day stamped bolsters, and it curves slightly upwards so stone sharpening can be applied without problems. For some hands-on proof, watch "Herder 1922 schärfen Chosera 1000/3000/5000". Basically, those modern day bolsters are nothing more than a dysfuctional mass production artifact, which doesn't have the fuctionality of its historical counterpart anymore.
*7:55* When you look at the example of the "bolster divot" in this video, it becomes apparent that it was created NOT by stone sharpening but rather one of those cheap modern "kitchen knife sharpeners" - which pretty much destroy your knives long term. If bolstered knives are worn down with sharpening stones, they lose their "belly" along the edge but leave no "divots" like shown here.
In a nutshell, this video shows how stamped mass produced knives "german style", which have been sharpened with "kitchen sharpeners" and honing rods only, are no match for modern day handmade or half-handmade Japanese knives. And with that I agree 100%. If actual _German_ knives are concerned, it should be a video comparing apples with apples, like *_Robert Herder 1922 series 10'' chef knife VS Masamoto KS_*
Now THAT would be a true Germany Vs Japan!
I find softer knifes useful for different tasks. I use a chinese cleaver most of the time, I can hone that on the back of a plate. No need to get out the stones.
The balance point of most 10" inch german style blades is as forward as most japanese ones. it depends on the size.
... find softer knives* useful*
hahaha i would have been disappointed if you guys didn't include that clip of Gordon snapping his knife when talking about flex
Ill throw Gordon clips in until I get a copyright strike ;)
Get over the bolster hate.
You can take it off with a file.
If you use a knife professionally, it's just knife maintainance.
If you are a home cook, it's a once every couple of years, if, maintainance chore
I live not too far from you guys is your store open store open I mean can I come inside And can you make a video suggesting knives knives under Five hundred
Most of our knives are under 500, and you can get a fantastic knife for that much of considerably less! Best is really subjective but we'd be happy to help you find the right fit you if you come by, or shoot us a call or message on instagram!
i always prefer japanese knives even these japanese style made in china xd feel , performance handling way better than our german knifes and btw not all german knife have this chunky fat bolster . i also prefer push/ pull cuts not this rockingmotion . i cut myself twice very deep once i lost a hole fingernail and a bit of the nail bed wich took almost 3months to heal ^^ and both with a german knive and this rockingmotion . funny fact i never had similiar issue with one of my japanes ones
We'll have to add that Japanese knives are less dangerous to the list as well then! ;)
... German* knives*
WHAT DO YOU THINK OF CHINA HAVING GLUTTED THE WORLS MARKET WITH THEIR KNIVES?
You get what you pay for!
this guy surely doesnt know his knives...made heaps of untrue statements... stay away from his shop
Japanese always better
Without watching I say Japan wins this one. The reason why I didn't watch is the crummy audio. Way too much echo. No excuse for that nowadays.