009 Small England "Prince" - PECO / Kato 009 Narrow Gauge - Model Railway Review
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- Опубліковано 27 лип 2024
- My first 009 Narrow Gauge review of the Small England "Prince" from PECO and Kato.
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To celebrate hitting 11K subscribers on UA-cam I'm reviewing my very first 009 Narrow Gauge locomotive! Yes, it's something a bit different and to kick things off I'm taking a look at the brand new Small England Prince from PECO and Kato.
009 Narrow Gauge modelling has been on the rise for a while now as the availability of Ready To Run products becomes available and in fact PECO have had their own range of 009 rolling stock for a while now. It's taken them some time to get round to producing their first narrow gauge loco though but now, having partnered with Japanese company Kato, they have now brought us this wonderful model of Prince which is most commonly associated with the Ffestiniog Railway.
This is a lovely little loco and it's really nice to see more Welsh Narrow Gauge engines starting to appear in 009 - so much so that it's inspired me to have a go at creating my very own narrow gauge layout. I'll be making a video on that very soon but if you want to see what I'm working on then do consider becoming a member to see all the behind the scenes content before anyone else!
Chapters:
00:00 - Introduction
02:31 - Loco Detail
06:25 - Damaged Models
07:24 - Loco Detail (Continued)
08:00 - First Test
09:11 - Running & Final Thoughts
Thanks for watching 😃
The two columns either side of the smokebox are pots for the sanders.
Ah good to know! That makes sense especially considering the gradients of the Ffestiniog. Thanks for watching 😃
Well they are not exactly pots for the sanders they pots containing the sand, the fireman had to work his way round from the cab while the loco is in motion remove the pot lid and with one hand hold onto the hand rail 'for safety' he would grab a hand full of sand with the other and feed the sand onto the rail just ahead of the engine. The crest on the tender is not the Festiniog Railway crest, no idea what it is!
@@hampshiregardenrailways2822 Something like the crest on the tender (but at a smaller size) seems to appear in early photos of the England locos. Page 137 of my copy of 'The Festiniog Railway, Volume 1' shows this on 'The Prince' in its open cab form while the 1923 view of 'Little Giant' on page 39 of 'The Welsh Highland Railway' also shows this as faint detail. Both books are by James I.C. Boyd.
@@derekp2674 I will have to dig out my copy of Boyd and look again! incidentally I noticed that 'Palmerston' is carrying similar crest on its tender now, see F&WHR Moving Pictures No 69 on UA-cam. You live and learn.
That's Duke the lost engine from "Thomas and friends", and from original "Railway series" by Wilbert Awdry.
Thanks for sharing, looking forward to seeing the 009 layout updates. Nice review and awesome looking little engine. Stay safe. Ken
Thanks Ken, glad you're excited to see the 009 layout in the future! I'm gonna start sharing the progress with my Channel Members very soon so it shouldn't be too long to wait. Thanks for watching 😃
Another great video. Can’t wait to see the 009 layout! 😆
Thanks! I'm definitely excited for what I'm planning. Like I said in the video I'm sharing all the progress and getting feedback from my Channel Members so it's a great time to sign up if you're interested in narrow gauge. Thanks for watching 😃
I just bought this model from Norfolk and I love it soooo much!-Das Mann
Awesome, it's a great little model isn't it! And nice that we have a 009 tender loco on the market for a decent price too. Thanks for watching 😃
Another great video thanks That Model Railway Guy. I ordered a small England Prince only a few days also and a couple of 'Bog Box' coaches. I do hope my loco arrives in one piece but thanks for the tip about contacting Peco if it doesn't.
Awesome, I bet it'll look great running with the Bug Boxes! Fingers crossed it arrives ok. Thanks for watching 😃
It's a great little loco, 009 is certainly more popular now, a bit strange it doesn't come with a dcc socket, but on the whole it does run really well at a slower speed and the detail for a small loco is brilliant
Yeah I agree, the lack of a DCC socket is really the only major let down for me - especially as they've released the chassis as it's own standalone product. But like you I've found that it runs incredibly well for a small loco and lives up to the standards that Kato are known for. Thanks for watching 😃
can't wait to see your oo9 layout
Thanks Ben! Like I said in the video I'm sharing the build progress with my Channel Members and getting feedback from them too so if you'd like to be involved now would be a great time to sign up 😉 Thanks for watching 👍
Well timed video, I was in two minds as to if I should relocate my OO9 end to end layout to my model studio under the main layout or scrap it. With more choice in locomotives think I will relocate. Looking forward to seeing your OO9 layout. Everyone loves my coffee table OO9 layout when they visit so it's a great area of the hobby to get into
Glad you decided to relocate James - it makes sense as 009 becomes more popular. Have to admit though I'm very jealous you've got your own model studio! The coffee table layout sounds interesting too, I've actually got something similar planned for my own layout. Not quite the same but certainly in the same vein. Thanks for watching 😃
Kato announced they will be producing 'Prince' and 'Princess' in the Ffestiniog green livery, coming in January 2023! :)
Awesome, I did suspect they would do them in the green livery at some point! Thanks for watching 😃
OO9 is a concept of which I know frighteningly little, so I am looking forward to your upcoming videos. The Small England was my first OO9 model as well, along with the Bachmann Double Fairlie. Unfortunately, the track I ordered for them hasn't arrived yet so right now they are sitting on some flat wagons. My Small England does have a few broken pieces, but nothing so major as to try and send it back across the pond for repairs. I was surprised at how bare bones the packaging was, especially compared to Bachmann's packaging for a loco of similar size.
009 is fairly new to me as well although I've been admiring from a distance for a while. The plan for the layout is looking really exciting - I'm hoping to be able to share a few things with the Channel Members in a week or too to get their feedback too.
Hope your track arrives soon as well so you can get your locos running - fingers crossed the Small England doesn't have any running issues. Thanks for watching 😃
Fantastic, That Model Railway Guy. Prince looks fabulous and seems to run well, in spite of not having DCC. Proportions, paint and lining are really nice. Only that shiny crosshead guide bugs me a bit. Reminds me of toy trains of the 60s. You can fix the chimney. I have a pair of N scale Kato Diesels that are just brilliant. Kato usually means high quality. Well, if Prince sells well, maybe they'll do Blanche, Linda and others, we hope. Great seeing your interest in narrow gauge, very nice. And congrats on reaching 11k, though I'm not surprised. You'll double this shortly!
Yes it's definitely a nice model. I think PECO / Kato originally said that after the Small Englands the plan was then go on and make the Double Farlies but considering Bachmann have just released their own version I wonder if they'll stick to that plan or move onto something else instead 🤔 Thanks for watching 👍
Good review 👍 beautiful model 😍🤩
Thanks, it is a good looking little loco isn't it. Nice to have a RTR tender engine available in 009 too! Thanks for watching 😃
Great review. I have a Heljan L&B Manning Wardle and I find that, like most 009 models, the price is only justified if you really, really like the prototype. Given that the best approach may be a really high quality diecast model rather than aim for lower cost.
I'd like to see your review of the Bachmann Hunslets when they arrive. Personally I'm interested in 'Dorothea' but I'm guessing you want one of the open cab versions.
Yes I think people mostly go into 009 modelling if there's a particular line or prototype they want to recreate/emulate. For me the L&B locos aren't really my main interest which is why I never took the plunge before - but now that there's more welsh locos on the market I'm happy to pay the price for these locos.
I do think it could be an interesting experiment from PECO/Kato though. Perhaps having a more simple model may encourage more people to start 009 layouts. Or maybe if it's at a good price point those who already have layouts will get one because "why not".
I'd definitely like to take a look at the Hunslets too - though I hear they may be delayed to next year now. To be honest I'm having a hard time choosing between the open and close cab variants - maybe I should do a review on each 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
Great little loco. I have put dcc and sound in mine.
Wow, that sounds incredible David! I'm guessing you squeezed the speaker into the cab then? I might be tempted to do the same thing if I can build up the courage. Thanks for watching 😃
Something I absolutely adore with these is how easy they are to disassemble (strange right?)
But as someone who basically repaints everything it was extremely easy to take apart and strip down! you can take the body all the way down from the cab and tank ALL the way to the handrails.
As a side note the nameplates ARE separate pieces and I dont personally mind the length to accommodate the two paint schemes, what I do mind though is the fact that there isnt a blank saddle tank molding for those who want to have no or nameplates in a different place on the tank. I was really hoping there would have been a spare available as 009 is the scale which is best known for kitbashing and bodging , though I suppose theres always 3D prints.
I don't think that's strange at all Ethan. Generally I think those who model in 009 are more accustomed to taking things apart, building kits and tinkering in general so it's almost like the model has been designed in this way. It might be down to the chassis being a separate product as well.
Thanks for the clarification on the nameplates although that's even weirder to me that they didn't make a shorter one for Prince if it wasn't part of the main body. I haven't taken mine apart yet so I'm not sure how big the hole is but for a blank saddle tank would a little bit of filler cover the hole if you're repainting it anyway? I imagine there will definitely be kits and 3D printed bodies to fit on this chassis in the next few months though! Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy Filler most definitely would fill the hole yes, but for those who would want the plate to sit near the front of the loco they'll have the rivet detailing (or lack there of) to deal with, though hopefully someone prints an insert or a whole new tank to fix that issue!
Very nice 😊👍
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks for watching 😃
Great to see you’ve got the narrow gauge bug, but I warn you it’s highly addictive, I’ve neglected my OO for about 9 months now 😆I recommended a Fairlie if you’ve not got one yet, you won’t be disappointed. The Thomas locos are great as well although modification kits seem to be in short supply at the moment. I’m hoping the upcoming Peter Sam can be modified into a tattoo but current images don’t look promising, have to wait and see on that one. Looking forward to seeing your layout build, I’ve got some books I can recommend for inspiration if you want.
It's something I've been wanting to do for a while now but with the release of all these new locos and seeing some excellent videos (yours included) I've decided I need to get on with it. The plan is to start off with something small and simple first so I won't get distracted for too long. Then once the OO layout is complete I'll look at doing something bit more ambitious 😉
Yes the Thomas engines do look good. I've been hunting around for a Skarloey myself but they all seem to be gone never mind the conversion kits. Looks like I missed the boat on that one unless they make more in the future. Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy totally Thomas have rheneas but i haven’t seen Skarloey for a while (he’s the better of the two models IMO) AGR in Leighton Buzzard where hoping for some more stock to come in so might be worth keeping an eye on them.
Yay one of my favourite Welsh engines! Love being Welsh!
The Welsh certainly know how to build their narrow gauge locos! Thanks for watching 😃
I DCC fitted Prince and Princess- it’s very tight and finding a small enough decoder was the major issue. Hard wiring was very simple! I heard someone sound fitted one - where they put the speaker I have no clue. There is no room in tender as there is a weight there. Maybe in the cab? Anyway great runners - I had them both running double heading using a DCC consist - there is a video on my channel.
Awesome, good to know hardwiring is possible then! I'll probably use a Zimo decoder myself in the future as I've used some of their really small ones in other locos. I'm amazed to hear someone has fitted sound in though. Yeah I guess the cab is the only place the speaker could go. It's quite enclosed anyway so could probably be hidden by adding a driver in the doorway. Thanks for watching 😃
Great review!
Just to let you know. As of 7/1/23 the product links for both locos link to a 'Product not found' page.
Thanks for the heads up Brian! They've probably all sold out so I've removed the links for the moment... although apparently they are being released in a green livery fairly soon. Thanks for watching 😃
I will have to look in to the 009's sounds like fun. Hope they sale them in America. Can't wait for the layout build on them.
GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖
I think the American equivalent of 009 is HOn30 if that helps. I can't wait to start work on the layout either - really interested to see what the Channel Members make of it! Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy it is very expensive the HOn30 and hard to find. Maybe if they release some Peco/Kato hear it my be something I could afford. Hope someday to get some for my N scale layout.
GOD BLESS 🚂💖🚂💖🚂💖
Man, I wish I had bought one of these when it came out, but I had just bought the Caley 812 (For $250!), and sadly I can't afford to spend more than $400 on model trains in one month (As much as I'd like to!). Maybe I'll be able to pick one up second-hand.🤔 Anyway, it looks great! Nice video!😃
Nice! The 812 is a great model - pricey but worth it in my opinion. I imagine PECO and Kato will be selling the Small Englands for a while though as it sounds like they had future runs planned so maybe you will be able to pick one up in the future. Thanks for watching 😃
Nice to see someone say they have a budget and have choices to make rather than just demand all prices lower to the point they can buy everything. $400 a month is more than enough to buy things up slowely and enjoy them. It may even help you in the long run as you don't get the first buyer issues that effect those that must have the latest model the moment its released. You have the benefit of their hindsight on your side in making smart chocies for purchasing.
The 'crest' on the tender is a stylised "FR" in a Victorian font with embellishments. See the real locomotive. 👍
That's good to know, thanks Michael. Although the real Prince currently doesn't have anything on it's tender I believe. Thanks for watching 😃
Great video, nice steam engine 👍, this engine reminds of Thomas and friends, this engine is called Duke in the railway series of Thomas the tank written by wilbert awdry and this model has been shown in brit alcrofts adaption of the books to a television series. This model looks cool😀
Yep Duke was definitely based of Prince - the general shape and the name are bit of a giveaway 😉 Thanks for watching 👍
This would suit his grace !
I was so excited that my first 009 engine, prince, came today only to find out it doesn’t do anything at all :(
Oh no, that sucks! Hopefully you were able to send it back. It might be worth waiting a little bit though as PECO supposedly have a new batch of these due early next year which improve on some of the issues these ones have. Thanks for watching 😃
For your information the columns at the side of the smokebox are the sandboxes
Yeah someone else mentioned that in another comment but good to have it confirmed from another source too. Thanks for watching 😃
I'm looking forward to the 009 layout, but please don't make it a member exclusive. I look forward to the next instalment of the modular layout too!
Hiya, the 009 layout won't be exclusive for Channel Members. They just get to see it all first, be involved with the planning and give me feedback along the way 😊 The next modular layout update should be along fairly soon too. Thanks for watching 👍
Hi, the two columns either side of the smoke box are sand boxes.
Hey Jon, yeah someone else mentioned that in another comment but good to have it confirmed from another source too. Thanks for watching 😃
One suspect the reasoning behind lack of DCC is down to the dynamics of narrow gauge railways and the usefulness of this in them.
Think about it for a second, where and why does DCC present an operational benefit over DC? In a setting where you are very likely to want to move multiple engines around on one section of track without electrical isolation. You just don't really get that much call for this in narrow gauge because UK narrow gauge stuff doesn't tend to have big sprawling yards or loco facilities where you would have multiple locos to line up and move independently on one none isolated track section. Ultimately they will have looked at narrow gauge layouts and real life and realised DCC is basically not needed for the happy operation of a nice layout of something narrow gauge in the UK. Certainly isn't something most narrow gauge modellers I've seen would ever need or probably be that keen to splash the cash on setting up.
Would be keen to see what use case you could come up with for it's advantages on your layout that couldn't be achieved with some cunning use of points and other means of electrical isolation without resorting to chips and expensive control set ups. Its something the hobby as a whole basically did without for most of its history (hornbys ill fated early attempt aside) by using these methods of operating isolated sections via points and switch boards to achieve the desired effects.
I see what you're saying but if that was the case why then does almost every other 009 loco have a decoder socket included. Surely those manufactures would have drawn the same conclusions and also not included one.
It's not always about what simulates realistic running either. People will operate their own layouts in many different ways and may choose to run multiple locos as a time even if it's not strictly correct because it's what they enjoy. With the Baldwin and the Double Farlies having built in speakers too others have chosen to make use of DCC sound so you wouldn't be able to use the Small England on that system without hardwiring in a decoder. Mostly though it's about giving each individual modeller the choice and I don't think adding a simple small socket was really beyond PECO and Kato in this instance. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy honestly they may have just put it there to put DCC ready on the box. I get what you're saying re choice but ultimately they haven't removed the choice to take it to a shop and have someone in the know wire in a chip or a speaker, they just haven't done provided a socket to plug something into. The same thing could be said for say a microsoft surface that doesn't have an HDMI port... they make you go out and buy some funky adaptor if you want that same functionality that a laptop with an HDMI port has at your own expense even though they know some people will like it, does it effect the core functionality or aesthetics of the machine much? Nope, its just one of those choices they made, same as our choice to buy it even though we know it lacks this feature.
If they had put a socket in they may have had to compromise on the design, up the cost by diecasting more of it to add weight from removing space where weights once lived, the speaker wouldn't have been the speaker some people wanted, the socket might have not had the pins some people wanted if it was just a socket, the decoder might not have been peoples preference of decoder if they supplied it with one. Sorta flows both ways, can't ever please everyone and there are as many mistakes to be made trying to do so as there is trying to not do so and every point between😊 really it's just nice to be able to get a model of it without hours of burned fingers, strained eyes and years of skill building to be either able to scratch or kit build it! Wondering to myself about starting a channel on scratch building locos and stuff just to give comparison to ready to run. It would be a neat side by side to scratch build our good friend the barclay 0-4-0st on camera with a clock counting up the hours and swear words then show the clicks on the website to just order one from hattons and compare the two results. Think we could do with this as a hobby, reminders of where we've come from, sort of like showing a barry scrapyard wreck to anyone in preservation who says its a lot of work to overhaul a loco.🤣
Rejoice in what we have and with such ease, don't get to caught up on small things we lack that can be so easily fixed and put a couple of quid in the pocket of a small business that does DCC retrofitting.
I got one of these it is a great engine but at first it didn't go backwards but I sorted it otherwise a great engine
Ahh glad you got it sorted. The good thing with these particular locos is that they are simple enough that it's not too difficult to fix yourself. Thanks for watching 😃
I am making an 009 railway in my garage and yesterday I was looking up 009 locomotives to buy and WHOW the ready-to-run engines (which are extremely hard to find!) are CrAzY expensive! The cheapest🐥one I could find was actually prince. I’m asking my grandma and grandad if I could get that for my birthday 🎂 just because I. Can’t. Afford. It.
Ps. How does 009 coupling work?
Pps. Does chassi mean motor and wheels or the outside stuff that makes the model look good?
009 is definitely a more niche part of the hobby hence the higher prices. If you're on a budget though, perhaps look at some of the 3D printed body shells you can get for Kato chassis like the Tram loco I use on Gofod Tynn. Thanks for watching 😃
Will the new OO9 bit be connected to the modular layout? You don't have to tell me anything else, I just want to know that.
Hey Will, at the moment the plan is just to create a separate stand alone narrow gauge layout. I would like to have something integrated with the modular layout in the future but that is definitely a long way off at the moment. Thanks for watching 😃
Starting to like this guage...
It's got a lot going for it. All the convenience of 4mm but the railway itself can fit into a much smaller space with tighter curves. Thanks for watching 😃
Fun Fact: In real life Prince once did a cosplay as Duke from Thomas and friends/The railway series
Really, that's great if it's true! I've only ever seen photos of Palmeston dressed up as Duke but I never knew Prince had played the role as well. Thanks for watching 😃
I'm having a terrible time with the pins that hold in the connecting rods. They have popped out on three sides of two engines. My Son was so excited to get these after visiting Ffestiniog railway. Would you have any advice?
Hi there, I presume this is happening with models from the initial run and not the re-release that claimed to resolve this issue?
For me I've found the best way to get them back in is to tip the loco on it's side, line up the holes on the connecting rods and then use a pair of fine tweezers to drop the pin back through the two holes.
Once you've done that, use the tweezers again to move the connecting rods and pin over the hole in the wheel and gently push the pin back in place. That's the best way I can describe it so I hope that's helpful.
To stop it from happening again I would stay away from running the locos too fast as this is what always seems to work the pins loose on mine. I had it happen in the middle of an exhibition last year so I can feel your frustration! Fingers crossed you get it sorted and thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy thanks, contacted KATO service and found out they have a facility in the US , Illinois. See what can be done there.
Update, forgot to post this but the US facility made the repair and they have been running fine since Cheers
I think that’s duke from Thomas and friends basis
Yeah that's right, Duke was definitely based on the Small Englands. Awdry was a big fan of narrow gauge railways and was a volunteer at the Talyllyn Railway, which is what the Skarloey Railway was heavily inspired by. Presumably the Mid-Sodor Railway (which I think is where Duke came from originally) was supposed to represent the Ffestiniog but that's a bit of a guess from me. Thanks for watching 😃
Prince was named after his grace the prince of Sodor
Think you might be getting confused with Duke from TTTE there 😉 thanks for watching 👍
Are these the Nigel Brooks 3d wagons?
They are indeed! Very good quality I’ve found and they don’t break the bank either. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I thought so, I’ve had several of his prints and they’re all outstanding and much better value than buying the Dundas kits for example 👍
Those who have seen Classic Thomas would recognise Prince as someone else, but I doubt your project has anything to do with the Mid Sodor Railway. That thing is just to good to splash brown paint on in fear of ruining it.
Yep Duke was definitely based on Prince. My project doesn't really have anything to do with the Mid Sodor Railway but perhaps you could say it takes inspiration from the same places. Thanks for watching 😃
KATO will bring out the FR Large England in Early 2024.
Yes I saw that too. I believe it' just a new body shell to fit the existing Small England chassis though - but it's still a win for 009 modellers. Thanks for watching 👍
We found Duke from ttte!
Yep! Just like all the Skarloey engines were based on real engines at the Talyllyn Railway, Duke was inspired by Prince at the Ffestiniog railway. Thanks for watching 😃
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy I hope I get one of these eventually. 👍
The Cylinder things on the front are sand boxes
Yeah someone else mentioned that in another comment but good to have it confirmed from another source too. Thanks for watching 😃
Bought one today and regret it, fell apart and derailed on track and lost both pins on the track that hold the rods in.
Oh no, sorry to hear that Tim. If you haven't already you should definitely contact PECO to let them know about the issue. Hope you get it sorted and thanks for watching 😃
The buffers aren’t sprung 😭😭😭😭
Haha, yep I couldn't resist the opportunity to poke a little bit of fun there 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
Is it worth the 200 Bucks?
Hmm, well that's up to each individual. I will say that $200 seems high considering that here in the UK they're sold for the equivalent of $150 dollars.
That said, as you can see from the video, it's a nice loco and runs well but the electronics are very simple (no DCC for example) and it is mostly made from plastic. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles that Bachmann 009 models tend to have but (usually) the price reflects that. Hope that helps and thanks for watching 👍
Can I ask why your using N gauge track, when there is correctly spaced sleeper OO9 gauge track is made by Peco? Yes Peco/Kato have missed a trick by not DCC, the Bachmann Fairlie's are great runners, as is the Baldwins. Heljan's L&BR don't like tight curves. I look forward to your new build as I model in Both OO9 & OO.
Hey Vinny! Only because that's what I had to hand to test the loco when filming the video - the actual layout will use PECOs 009 track.
I definitely want to take a look at the Double Farlies and Baldwins from Bachmann too and I can't wait for their Quarry Hunslets as well! I have to admit that I'd also heard the Heljan locos were a bit fussy and had a few issues which slightly put me off. Thanks for watching 😃
Hello Grandpuff said Peter Sam
Haha, I just need to get on of Bachmann's 009 Peter Sam models then 😂 Thanks for watching 👍
Is it me or is that chimney leaning backward ?
Yeah it is slightly. I only noticed myself when editing the video - it's almost imperceptible in reality but when the camera is close up like this you can see it. Should be easy enough to move it forward a bit though. Thanks for watching 😃
That will never suit his grace.
I think you mean "your highness" 😉 Thanks for watching 👍
@@ThatModelRailwayGuy
His Grace was the Duke of Sodor. His name is Sir John Arnold Norramby.
Ruined by the ludicrously giant coupling
Don't forget the prototypes have a central buffer like this too. Besides, you can easily remove the hoop and just use the ones on the rolling stock instead for a more realistic look. Thanks for watching 👍