Any gun manufacturer with faith in their product should be more than happy to have people shoot their products. If they work flawlessly, then that's great marketing. If issues occur: ample opportunity for ironing out kinks to further perfect the product.
@@sevenproxies4255 true. This is a 40 year old prototype that never made it to production, so critique away. But there is a lot of cool design to learn from off that little thing.
@@CrashRacknShoot I like a lot of design elements of it. And as far as the full-auto problems Ian had on the range, like you said, it's a prototype. And in my expience, misfeeds and trigger reset failures usually bottles down to the piece just needing some more machining. Some material needs to be added or taken off. But that's part and parcel of gunsmithing after all. This gun clearly doesn't need that much work to function flawlessly.
Thank you very much CZ for allowing Ian to shoot this piece, I did not expect you to do so to the point I was thinking "pity he won't get to shoot it". Obviously, it's a developmental piece, it would be interesting to see if the bugs could be ironed out as it's actually quite a nice design and that's coming from a died-in-the-wool Skorpian fanboy.
@@j.yossarian6852 Exactly my thought. With that, a longer barrel would be possible. But the upper reciver must be extended to make room for the bolt but if you extend the upper the lengh of pull could also be improved. But the gun would not be as compact as befor.
It looks like a Brugger and Thomet by way of Walther. I realize aesthetics aren't the most important thing in firearms design but it really is a nice looking little SMG.
I was just thinking looking at the thumbnail, there seems (at least to me) to be a running theme of "cool looking" firearms becoming failures for one reason or another. Its shame, because these firearms are cool obviously 😅
Like any prototype I would guess that it needs a little fine tuning and possibly the magazine is a little finiky also. I love the overall concept. It's definitely not a cheaply made gun. Looks like quite a bit of maching was involved in the manufacturing process. But I generally like the idea.
I'm no gunsmith, far from it, but I could see a couple of improvements that would have helped the ejection - like filling in that big empty space above the chamber a loose shell can fit into and a deflector to make sure the casing has only one place to go during ejection. Also, I wish Ian had worked the selector switch back and forth with some "emphasis" to make sure it was fully seated in the auto position.
For the billionth time, thanks Ian for showing us some random obscure weapon that we never knew existed. Looks like this design should be revisited i reckon. Cheers.
I want to tell the CZ marketing people I start following their social media because of their cool attitude towards Ian taking this gun to the range. Many companies would be scared of bad publicity because of malfunctions or the gun breaking or whatever, but this is how you're supposed to do it CZ, thanks!
looks like it needs a beefier extractor,but it did well for a prototype,also the Scorpion stock would work so much better since it has a "long" bare barrel
It also looks like there's not enough kinetic energy in the cycle to do everything it's trying to do. Might be cause the main spring is too cold, not quite as responsive as it should be.
@@jono3952 I was thinking that maybe the chamber isn't fluted, that could rob the action of necessary momentum, the H&K delayed blowback guns all have fluted chambers to stop the case from sticking in the chamber...
I believe extraction is fine, because it works in semiauto. Ian also attempts "to recock the hammer without losing the round." So I believe he's ejecting unfired cartridges, rather than empty fired cases that failed to extract. The hammer possibly follows the bolt down too gently/early, not striking the primer hard enough to fire. So now you have a chambered round and uncocked gun. In semiauto, the disconnector prevents the hammer from "following" and it works fine.
The Cz attitude of bringing even rare weapons to the shooting range elevates them a bit above other brands. I will definitely remember this when I make future purchases.
@@wurstelei1356 Czech republic produces ammo, so it is unlikely to have variations in quality due to change of supplier. I mean, they run gun testing in the factory, not a shooting range for tourists.
Interestingly enough Czech Weapons System also tried applying this lever delayed blowback system to lots of other weapons as well; multiple SMG designs, a few rifles, etc (though much like the PDW here, none of them seemingly ended up with any major production)
I have always been intrigued by the lever-delayed system, but slightly disappointed by the lack of general examples of lever-delayed blowback in firearms. This video has proven to be quite interesting.
Yeah, the only one I knew of before googling it was the FAMAS, and there aren't very many at all. I remember reading that H&K tried making a lever-delayed SMG (an early MP5 or UMP prototype, or maybe the MP7?), but gave up. It seems to have some inherent problems that just make it hard to get right.
Very nice video as always. Maybe one day you can try to review the Czech "CZW 556" rifle? It's a lever-delayed blowback gun as well and I've always wondered how it would operate.
@@CzechoslovakGunStories Do you know of any videos or other media about it? I'm really interested in it, yet the only thing I managed to find is a low quality test fire video.
I wonder if some combination of bolt bounce and hammer follow is causing the stoppages. Seems that the trigger is resetting, hence the doubles, but something about the cadence of sustained fire is causing light primer strikes.
@Peter smith The ammo is the easiest thing to rule out. No repairs, no modifications, just different ammo. I'm not sure if hotter or lighter would be better, but I am somewhat disappointed that it wasn't investigated here. My gut says hotter, but who knows?
I agree, because I used to have the same issue with an older Century C308 that I had. I went too long without cleaning it once, and it had trouble with hammer follow and I'd get random 2 or 3 round bursts out of a semi auto rifle. And then after that 2nd or 3rd round I'd have to charge it again and reset the hammer because it was following the bolt. Needless to say I cleaned it every time I shot it after that happened.
From what I can see in the footage, it appears that the trigger axis pin was too short and walked to the left little bit, which would cause an alignment issue with the trigger. It would still be able to effectively fire, but resetting would be problematic and prone to errors in that case (same with an AR15, or any other gun that has a very "neat" trigger group without a lot of horizontal space to shift aroudn in).
This is the most visually appealing pdw I've seen you examine!! Reminds me of childhood crayon drawings after watching the vhs commando/predator box set!
Me too. Did the lever delay system ever fit into a 9mm pistol? When I'm bored I try to imagine a delay system that would only minimally add to the complexity of a straight blowback design, i.e. keep cost and parts count and manufacturing time to a minimum.
@@donjones4719 I’m not sure, I think I heard about one on forgotten weapons before but maybe I’m just imagining things hahah, if there were I’d assume it was Czech or maybe Chinese before communism
I actually really appreciate the long delay here between recording and posting because it was 101F and high humidity the other day at work, indoors, and just seeing someone enjoy an SMG in winter weather had a nice little touch of comfort for me.
That is an incredibly interesting design, and definitely shows the potential of a lever-delayed system for such a compact weapon. It's a shame it wasn't developed further, but it's also understandable why the Czech military went with the CZ. Perhaps we'll see an evolution of the concept at some point
The lever at no point stops the bolt from moving. The bolt is moving relative to the frame from the instant of primer ignition onward. It can be described as a class 3 lever, with the frame acting as the fulcrum. No motion can be transmitted to the load arm (carrier) if the action point (bolt) is stationary.
Yeah, you are right. That is why Ian corrected himself that it is a delayed, not a locked system. I guess it is formulated in this (a little) incorrect way to make the explanation a bit simpler and shorter - the bolt movement prior to the lever retracting is small enough to support the case enough to prevent detonation and thus not as important to the overall picture. On the other hand, I can see that in this case, it may confuse someone, for instance, if they are well familiar with levers and not so much with the chamber - case - bolt - not-blowing-up setup. I wonder if there are more people benefiting from the amplification or if more people would rather have the full picture... I think Ian has some short videos explaining basic operating principles.
That’s actually a very good simple execution of a lever delay for a sub gun. I love the simplicity of most sub guns. Pps-43 being my favorite at this point but this is really cool. Next level sub gun I wanna make one similar and see if I can pull it off. Video saved to the archive for reference
It looks like it definitely had the potential to be a PDW. Hard to say, what's causing the trigger reset issue, buy it's probably something that could have been worked out. Great Video Ian, and a big thank you to CZ for allowing a complete demonstration of the gun.
By one side, i supose that the short stock is made to be comfortable with corporal armour and winter clothes. Otherwise, is chambered in 9x19, whos not a good "frontline" case even for the 90s and the trigger guard dosent look big enough to be comfortable to shot with winter gloves. Maybe because its a prototipe? idk...
Great content. Thank you kindly sir, Really enjoyable to see and hear you expound on an interesting piece of gun design and seeing it fail spectacularly on the range right after. (coupled with your telling it was a one off prototype) Could not help following this video up with re-watching your review of the scorpion evo 3 from 4 years back. A heart felt thumbs up to CZ for allowing you to field the gun, it brings another dimension to the exploration of this firearm, serving to complete it fully. Still following you with pleasure from the Netherlands. Greetings, Jonathan
Those People of Cz, or The country,itself, are traditionaly famous concerning firearms. They have manufactured several excellent designs, and when it comes to machinepistols,they have The Skorpion. Says enough about quality.
I'm not trying to shoot a malfunctioning prototype, while also making an informative video and I'm getting frustrated! Can only imagine how Ian's feeling. Another great video nonetheless!
charging handle reciprocates a long way but about perfect rate of fire. more than a grease gun but less than an M11. the m11 empties the mag before you can get off the trigger almost.
For reference, this very small pdw weighs about 25%-40% more than a typical sword, worn for the same purpose would have. Its about 400g heavier than but in the range of everything from a 14th century arming sword to a17th century katana or 19th century military sabre. I saw the thumbnail of what my brain guessed was a spray painted M3A1 and nearly scrolled right past! I mean it is, but it's also an interesting take on the genre.
Just something that I think this firearm drives home very well in terms of example. Look at the reciprocating mass that this firearm has for a 9mm parabellum!! You look at many if not all of your direct blowback 9mm sub guns or machine pistols and the difference is striking. I think this weapon showcases how useful and practical a delayed action can really be. In most 9mm sub guns your are going to see blowback operation because it’s economical and relatively reliable/simplistic. The downside to most of the direct blowback sub guns is the reciprocating mass must be adequate enough to delay opening until pressure is safe and it also has to have enough mass to slow the cyclic rate down to a manageable level. In the case of direct blowback this results in a relatively large reciprocating mass and that translates to recoil that is often more abrupt and violent. In addition the recoil spring in direct blowback firearms must be equally as stout in order to absorb such mass and adequately launch it back forward to chamber the next round. The firearm above shows that delayed operation can still be quite simplistic and effective. I describe delayed action 9mm sub guns as having recoil that a 9mm really should have because often times the direct blowback variants will have recoil that is actually quite sharp and intense for a round operating at 9mm pressures. I have a direct blowback PCC and I would almost swear to you the recoil is worse than that of an AR-15. Once again that sort of makes since because most AR-15’s have some sort of gas operation wether that be Direct impingement or piston operation. Regardless of which one the AR-15 has a delayed operation as the lugs stay locked until gas can interact with the bolt/carrier or the piston can interface with the carrier and that operation cause a delay in unlocking.
I've had a strange affinity for Czech guns for many years. Even now my EDC guns are a P07 tactical and a custom Bren2 shorty carried in a backpack. They just have this feel to them, along with some pretty wicked reliability that I don't mind trusting my life with. Plus, they just look incredibly dope
Maybe they couldn't persuade one of the employees to shoot it, but Ian was happy to try, now CZ are considering a new line of polymer PDWS of this design, but in more potent caliber, and barrels adopted for suppression and a rail on top, aimed to be max 1,0 kg unloaded, with a sling attachment in the back, caliber to whish for, 30SC, 10Auto, 7.5 Brno, 5.7 FN and if it is room, 30 Carbine.
Another variation on Pal Kiraly's designed action, to add to the Hungarian Danuvia SMG's, the French FAMAS and AA-52, and the Dominican Cristobal carbine.
I could see that lever delay system being adapted to the Uzi Telescoping-bolt and mag-in-grip architecture. Could shave a ton of weight off the heavy blowback bolt.
Okay, have to admit I like the folding stock on this one. The way it acts as a forward hand guard. You know exactly how far forward is too far forward.
I absolutely love this little job. It reminds me of a late 90s early 2000s video game smg. It's the right kind of pdw where it's a large useable pistol while having a low profile and useable stock. The only thing I'd like to see changed is a non reciprocating bolt handle accessible from both sides. Also. Imagine it in .30 SC.
I feel like this might be good contender for the cheek pistol stuff... put rectangular barrelshroud on front with built in tiny light or laser under barrel in it and rail on top... seemed like it wasn't too snappy for recoil as well. -of course with fixing its problems first...]
I really hope when you cover the CZ/laugo scorpion 3, you talk about the two piece bolt it was originally designed with. There was some talk of the two piece bolts being brought in but it died out a while ago.
Maybe the gun needs a cartridge with a bit more power to work the mechanism. And the gun probably needs a full disassemble, clean, polish the parts and try again. Does look cool if a bit more work on it would be needed. It must be nice to have such respect in the gun community that a major manufacturer will let you walk into their factory and start shooting whatever is laying around.
An analysis of the failure modes would be interesting. It seemed to be something to do with the way the fired brass ejected (or didn't), and the feed from the magazine.
I heard every Swiss has an assault rifle locked at home, in case of war. How about voting to allow soldiers to pick any Nato standard rifles? Then you can have Bren 2.
Neat gun. Fix the trigger reset issue, some filler to prevent spent cases from jamming in over the trunion, lengthen the stock and add some rounded meat to the strut, make the rear sight usable (larger aperture?), switch the rail to Picatinny, amd maybe change the charging handle so it points straight up instead of out (like a Galil - easiest way to make it ambi with minimal changes to the gun). Maybe add a lightweight shroud with an attachment selected on the bottom to cover some of that exposed barrel (and give you a place for a VFG if broomsticks on your broomsticks are your thing) and thread the barrel for a can. Literally all the sorts of things that would likely have ended up happening if the gun got a few more iterations in development before being smothered in the crib. I think you'd end up with a *very* nice pistol caliber PDW, within the same form factor and likely no significant weight increase, that would be an excellent (and discrete) VIP protection "break contact gun" designed to get the detail and protectee back to the Hate Wagon where the carbines are stashed. Basically, what the US Army was looking for in the APC9K.
Just FYI it is no longer "numb cheeks" cold here. We are in "careful, the asphalt is melting" heatwaves part of the year now. And if you like CZ I wholeheartedly recommend P10. They knocked it out of park with that one, hard contender to dethrone CZ75
"guns are meant to be shot" CZ got it 100% right there!
Yes sir, that's why we have them :Dd piece of american weapon freedom in the middle of the Europe, that is CZ.
Any gun manufacturer with faith in their product should be more than happy to have people shoot their products.
If they work flawlessly, then that's great marketing.
If issues occur: ample opportunity for ironing out kinks to further perfect the product.
At least attempted!
@@sevenproxies4255 true. This is a 40 year old prototype that never made it to production, so critique away. But there is a lot of cool design to learn from off that little thing.
@@CrashRacknShoot I like a lot of design elements of it.
And as far as the full-auto problems Ian had on the range, like you said, it's a prototype.
And in my expience, misfeeds and trigger reset failures usually bottles down to the piece just needing some more machining.
Some material needs to be added or taken off. But that's part and parcel of gunsmithing after all. This gun clearly doesn't need that much work to function flawlessly.
Oh wow they let you shoot it?! That's so cool. Big thanks to CZ for letting us see this.
Thank you very much CZ for allowing Ian to shoot this piece, I did not expect you to do so to the point I was thinking "pity he won't get to shoot it".
Obviously, it's a developmental piece, it would be interesting to see if the bugs could be ironed out as it's actually quite a nice design and that's coming from a died-in-the-wool Skorpian fanboy.
Mag should be in the grip tho
@@j.yossarian6852 not if it affects the design and functionality but an extra mag holder in the grip could be nice tho
@@j.yossarian6852 Exactly my thought. With that, a longer barrel would be possible. But the upper reciver must be extended to make room for the bolt but if you extend the upper the lengh of pull could also be improved. But the gun would not be as compact as befor.
Really reminds me of the pp-91, minus the lever delayed action, it’s remarkably similar
That mag dump was even longer than the 200-rounder from that Knight's Armament machinegun, very impressive.
ΧD kekw ~~~ so true....
I always wondered if anything other than the famas was ever designed around the lever delayed system, guess I’ve got my answer now
Also the Hungarian Kiraly 39M/ 43M submachineguns
@@jakubdolezal665 oh yeah, almost forgot about that one
Your user picture brings me back. Thumbs up.
The AA-52 is the French GPMG since 1952.
@@garthenar nice to find a fellow fan of the show on here
It looks like a Brugger and Thomet by way of Walther. I realize aesthetics aren't the most important thing in firearms design but it really is a nice looking little SMG.
It is, isn't it? I was thinking the same thing
I was just thinking looking at the thumbnail, there seems (at least to me) to be a running theme of "cool looking" firearms becoming failures for one reason or another.
Its shame, because these firearms are cool obviously 😅
Agreed, it's a simple design perfected and made elegant as an result.
Looks like russian smg PP-91 KEDR
It looks like a M3 Grease Gun that got caught in a vice.
"Guns are meant to be shot" I knew there was a reason I liked CZ. LOL
Like any prototype I would guess that it needs a little fine tuning and possibly the magazine is a little finiky also. I love the overall concept. It's definitely not a cheaply made gun. Looks like quite a bit of maching was involved in the manufacturing process. But I generally like the idea.
That is very high quality for a one of its kind prototype! I'm impressed!
I'm no gunsmith, far from it, but I could see a couple of improvements that would have helped the ejection - like filling in that big empty space above the chamber a loose shell can fit into and a deflector to make sure the casing has only one place to go during ejection. Also, I wish Ian had worked the selector switch back and forth with some "emphasis" to make sure it was fully seated in the auto position.
I suspect that CZ did not pursue this design because they figured it won't be possible to make this thing out of stampings.
The problem isn't the magazine, I think, because Ian wasn't having trouble with an empty chamber.
Maybe it’s because he’s holding the magazine too tightly
For the billionth time, thanks Ian for showing us some random obscure weapon that we never knew existed. Looks like this design should be revisited i reckon. Cheers.
I want to tell the CZ marketing people I start following their social media because of their cool attitude towards Ian taking this gun to the range. Many companies would be scared of bad publicity because of malfunctions or the gun breaking or whatever, but this is how you're supposed to do it CZ, thanks!
looks like it needs a beefier extractor,but it did well for a prototype,also the Scorpion stock would work so much better since it has a "long" bare barrel
Yesss, the skorpion stock looks right at home here.
It also looks like there's not enough kinetic energy in the cycle to do everything it's trying to do. Might be cause the main spring is too cold, not quite as responsive as it should be.
@@jono3952 I was thinking that maybe the chamber isn't fluted, that could rob the action of necessary momentum, the H&K delayed blowback guns all have fluted chambers to stop the case from sticking in the chamber...
I believe extraction is fine, because it works in semiauto. Ian also attempts "to recock the hammer without losing the round." So I believe he's ejecting unfired cartridges, rather than empty fired cases that failed to extract. The hammer possibly follows the bolt down too gently/early, not striking the primer hard enough to fire. So now you have a chambered round and uncocked gun. In semiauto, the disconnector prevents the hammer from "following" and it works fine.
A lever delayed Scorpion would be huge success. DO IT CZ!
The Cz attitude of bringing even rare weapons to the shooting range elevates them a bit above other brands. I will definitely remember this when I make future purchases.
that PDW is pretty awesome I bet if it were to be made today, or something very similar, it would be a big seller on today's market.
"Let's see if it works" made me smile. Sounds like CZ has some awesome people in charge
If someone ironed out the kinks this thing would rock, I love everything about it
Agreed. It looks like it has the possibility of being a handy pdw type of gun.
Maybe it is the ammo. Sadly Ian didn't mention what he used and if he tried different types or if this is the rated ammo.
@@wurstelei1356 Czech republic produces ammo, so it is unlikely to have variations in quality due to change of supplier. I mean, they run gun testing in the factory, not a shooting range for tourists.
@@Pyrochemik007 yup.. Sellier & Bellot being one of the oldest and well established ammo manufacturers in the world is located in Czech
Thanks, CZ and Ian for letting us see this kinda work.
Interestingly enough Czech Weapons System also tried applying this lever delayed blowback system to lots of other weapons as well; multiple SMG designs, a few rifles, etc (though much like the PDW here, none of them seemingly ended up with any major production)
I have always been intrigued by the lever-delayed system, but slightly disappointed by the lack of general examples of lever-delayed blowback in firearms. This video has proven to be quite interesting.
Yeah, the only one I knew of before googling it was the FAMAS, and there aren't very many at all. I remember reading that H&K tried making a lever-delayed SMG (an early MP5 or UMP prototype, or maybe the MP7?), but gave up. It seems to have some inherent problems that just make it hard to get right.
Very nice video as always.
Maybe one day you can try to review the Czech "CZW 556" rifle?
It's a lever-delayed blowback gun as well and I've always wondered how it would operate.
Its Findorak work as well, same like CZ 805 and others rifles
If I am not mistaken this is also L. Findorak's work based partially on Baryshev's design.
@@CzechoslovakGunStories Yes it is
@@CzechoslovakGunStories
Do you know of any videos or other media about it?
I'm really interested in it, yet the only thing I managed to find is a low quality test fire video.
@@adh615 I will see what I can do :)
I wonder if some combination of bolt bounce and hammer follow is causing the stoppages. Seems that the trigger is resetting, hence the doubles, but something about the cadence of sustained fire is causing light primer strikes.
@Peter smith The ammo is the easiest thing to rule out. No repairs, no modifications, just different ammo. I'm not sure if hotter or lighter would be better, but I am somewhat disappointed that it wasn't investigated here. My gut says hotter, but who knows?
I agree, because I used to have the same issue with an older Century C308 that I had. I went too long without cleaning it once, and it had trouble with hammer follow and I'd get random 2 or 3 round bursts out of a semi auto rifle. And then after that 2nd or 3rd round I'd have to charge it again and reset the hammer because it was following the bolt. Needless to say I cleaned it every time I shot it after that happened.
I guess it's because it is a prototype rather than a production model that's had all the bugs worked out.
From what I can see in the footage, it appears that the trigger axis pin was too short and walked to the left little bit, which would cause an alignment issue with the trigger. It would still be able to effectively fire, but resetting would be problematic and prone to errors in that case (same with an AR15, or any other gun that has a very "neat" trigger group without a lot of horizontal space to shift aroudn in).
Maybe the magazine springs were weak?
I was thinking the magazine wasn't able to keep up with the bolt.
This is the most visually appealing pdw I've seen you examine!! Reminds me of childhood crayon drawings after watching the vhs commando/predator box set!
We thank you all at CZ 😃 Hope to see more interesting CZ firearms.
CZ is awesome for being so generous with their collection. One of my fav firearm manufacturers
I do love the lever delayed system too, really any delayed blowback I’m fascinated with
Me too. Did the lever delay system ever fit into a 9mm pistol? When I'm bored I try to imagine a delay system that would only minimally add to the complexity of a straight blowback design, i.e. keep cost and parts count and manufacturing time to a minimum.
@@donjones4719 I’m not sure, I think I heard about one on forgotten weapons before but maybe I’m just imagining things hahah, if there were I’d assume it was Czech or maybe Chinese before communism
Thank you , Ian .
🐺
That's a neat design though, tiny little SMG that's *actually* controllable in automatic fire.
A little more R&D and they may have something. The delayed action is a good idea in a small SMG. What’s old could be new.
The Skorpion is already that gun, albeit in a small caliber.
Damn! Summers in the Czech Republic are brutal !
I actually really appreciate the long delay here between recording and posting because it was 101F and high humidity the other day at work, indoors, and just seeing someone enjoy an SMG in winter weather had a nice little touch of comfort for me.
Thank y’all to cz. My favorite gun company.
I love how simple and crude SMG's and PDW's are.
I guess we can conclude that the gun really did fail the adverse conditions test if the cold has got the trigger that messed up.
If that isn't the most adorable little SMG/PDW out there i don't know what is.
That is an incredibly interesting design, and definitely shows the potential of a lever-delayed system for such a compact weapon. It's a shame it wasn't developed further, but it's also understandable why the Czech military went with the CZ. Perhaps we'll see an evolution of the concept at some point
The rail seems similar to an 11mm weaver rail. Somewhat like what's on pellet riffles and early or '80s rifles
That's exactly what it is
The lever at no point stops the bolt from moving. The bolt is moving relative to the frame from the instant of primer ignition onward. It can be described as a class 3 lever, with the frame acting as the fulcrum. No motion can be transmitted to the load arm (carrier) if the action point (bolt) is stationary.
Yeah, you are right. That is why Ian corrected himself that it is a delayed, not a locked system. I guess it is formulated in this (a little) incorrect way to make the explanation a bit simpler and shorter - the bolt movement prior to the lever retracting is small enough to support the case enough to prevent detonation and thus not as important to the overall picture.
On the other hand, I can see that in this case, it may confuse someone, for instance, if they are well familiar with levers and not so much with the chamber - case - bolt - not-blowing-up setup.
I wonder if there are more people benefiting from the amplification or if more people would rather have the full picture...
I think Ian has some short videos explaining basic operating principles.
If I were to guess, I would say that's an 11 mm dove tail/weaver rail. For the width of the PDW it seems a better choice than the larger picatinny.
God I love the color on this thing's finish. It reminds me of the bluing on the ZH-29 you went over.
That’s actually a very good simple execution of a lever delay for a sub gun. I love the simplicity of most sub guns. Pps-43 being my favorite at this point but this is really cool. Next level sub gun I wanna make one similar and see if I can pull it off. Video saved to the archive for reference
That's such a cool mechanism! I always love it when you do teardowns and explanations!
It looks like it definitely had the potential to be a PDW. Hard to say, what's causing the trigger reset issue, buy it's probably something that could have been worked out.
Great Video Ian, and a big thank you to CZ for allowing a complete demonstration of the gun.
Thank you CZ and Ian, love it.
Bit of a shame to see the malfunctions. A good prototype, it has room for improvement!
mad respect to CZ saying "its a gun its meant to be shot". cool ass dudes
By one side, i supose that the short stock is made to be comfortable with corporal armour and winter clothes. Otherwise, is chambered in 9x19, whos not a good "frontline" case even for the 90s and the trigger guard dosent look big enough to be comfortable to shot with winter gloves. Maybe because its a prototipe? idk...
Great content. Thank you kindly sir,
Really enjoyable to see and hear you expound on an interesting piece of gun design and seeing it fail spectacularly on the range right after. (coupled with your telling it was a one off prototype) Could not help following this video up with re-watching your review of the scorpion evo 3 from 4 years back.
A heart felt thumbs up to CZ for allowing you to field the gun, it brings another dimension to the exploration of this firearm, serving to complete it fully.
Still following you with pleasure from the Netherlands.
Greetings,
Jonathan
“The Czechs have been fans of ambidextrous controls for quite a while”
My CZ 85 can confirm.
CZ is one seriously cool uncle for letting Ian unleash it down range.
That was about the most interesting mag-dump yet haha certainly a prototype gun. Good on CZ for letting you take it out and run it.
Looks like a great concept that would also be quite simple and cheap to manufacture. Shape it wasn’t adopted and never saw further development.
Awesome gun overview PLUS range video! Well done Ian.
Those People of Cz, or The country,itself, are traditionaly famous concerning firearms. They have manufactured several excellent designs, and when it comes to machinepistols,they have The Skorpion. Says enough about quality.
nice interesting prototype, needed some tweaks on the ejection part :)
thanks CZ for letting you disassemble and shoot it , for all of us to see
Sweet! From the looks of Kinda expecting this to be of low quality but it isnt!
Very cool little gun and enjoyed learning about the delay system. Thanks!
I'm not trying to shoot a malfunctioning prototype, while also making an informative video and I'm getting frustrated! Can only imagine how Ian's feeling. Another great video nonetheless!
charging handle reciprocates a long way but about perfect rate of fire. more than a grease gun but less than an M11. the m11 empties the mag before you can get off the trigger almost.
Little PDWs aren't normally my thing but I love that. Interesting design that seems to actually have a functional advantage.
There's no such thing as failure! Only success or learning.
For reference, this very small pdw weighs about 25%-40% more than a typical sword, worn for the same purpose would have. Its about 400g heavier than but in the range of everything from a 14th century arming sword to a17th century katana or 19th century military sabre. I saw the thumbnail of what my brain guessed was a spray painted M3A1 and nearly scrolled right past! I mean it is, but it's also an interesting take on the genre.
Just something that I think this firearm drives home very well in terms of example. Look at the reciprocating mass that this firearm has for a 9mm parabellum!! You look at many if not all of your direct blowback 9mm sub guns or machine pistols and the difference is striking. I think this weapon showcases how useful and practical a delayed action can really be. In most 9mm sub guns your are going to see blowback operation because it’s economical and relatively reliable/simplistic. The downside to most of the direct blowback sub guns is the reciprocating mass must be adequate enough to delay opening until pressure is safe and it also has to have enough mass to slow the cyclic rate down to a manageable level. In the case of direct blowback this results in a relatively large reciprocating mass and that translates to recoil that is often more abrupt and violent. In addition the recoil spring in direct blowback firearms must be equally as stout in order to absorb such mass and adequately launch it back forward to chamber the next round. The firearm above shows that delayed operation can still be quite simplistic and effective. I describe delayed action 9mm sub guns as having recoil that a 9mm really should have because often times the direct blowback variants will have recoil that is actually quite sharp and intense for a round operating at 9mm pressures. I have a direct blowback PCC and I would almost swear to you the recoil is worse than that of an AR-15. Once again that sort of makes since because most AR-15’s have some sort of gas operation wether that be Direct impingement or piston operation. Regardless of which one the AR-15 has a delayed operation as the lugs stay locked until gas can interact with the bolt/carrier or the piston can interface with the carrier and that operation cause a delay in unlocking.
Aesthetically reminds me of the PDW/IDW and the Kedr/Klin
a lot like a kedr
I've had a strange affinity for Czech guns for many years. Even now my EDC guns are a P07 tactical and a custom Bren2 shorty carried in a backpack. They just have this feel to them, along with some pretty wicked reliability that I don't mind trusting my life with. Plus, they just look incredibly dope
“Guns are meant to be shot.”
I knew there was a reason I liked CZ!
I like this little gun, I think it's cool!
We love CZ, best gun manufacturer 🤝🇨🇿
I see it fires all three modes; Burst, Semi-auto and Single Action :-)
Maybe they couldn't persuade one of the employees to shoot it, but Ian was happy to try, now CZ are considering a new line of polymer PDWS of this design, but in more potent caliber, and barrels adopted for suppression and a rail on top, aimed to be max 1,0 kg unloaded, with a sling attachment in the back, caliber to whish for, 30SC, 10Auto, 7.5 Brno, 5.7 FN and if it is room, 30 Carbine.
I know it’s being compared to the VZ. 61, but I’m here thinking it look like a more expensive Kedr
CZ letting you test fire that is awesome. my regards.
Another variation on Pal Kiraly's designed action, to add to the Hungarian Danuvia SMG's, the French FAMAS and AA-52, and the Dominican Cristobal carbine.
Very cool little gun. But more than that m very jealous of that jacket - always liked Canadian tab buttons.
I could see that lever delay system being adapted to the Uzi Telescoping-bolt and mag-in-grip architecture. Could shave a ton of weight off the heavy blowback bolt.
It's too bad development didn't continue with this little subgun. There's a lot of cool features.
Okay, have to admit I like the folding stock on this one. The way it acts as a forward hand guard.
You know exactly how far forward is too far forward.
I absolutely love this little job. It reminds me of a late 90s early 2000s video game smg. It's the right kind of pdw where it's a large useable pistol while having a low profile and useable stock. The only thing I'd like to see changed is a non reciprocating bolt handle accessible from both sides.
Also. Imagine it in .30 SC.
I feel like this might be good contender for the cheek pistol stuff... put rectangular barrelshroud on front with built in tiny light or laser under barrel in it and rail on top... seemed like it wasn't too snappy for recoil as well. -of course with fixing its problems first...]
I really hope when you cover the CZ/laugo scorpion 3, you talk about the two piece bolt it was originally designed with. There was some talk of the two piece bolts being brought in but it died out a while ago.
"Mom, can we have a vz. 61 Skorpion?"
"No, but let's make one instead of buying one, shall we?"
The result:
Maybe the gun needs a cartridge with a bit more power to work the mechanism. And the gun probably needs a full disassemble, clean, polish the parts and try again.
Does look cool if a bit more work on it would be needed.
It must be nice to have such respect in the gun community that a major manufacturer will let you walk into their factory and start shooting whatever is laying around.
I get woken up early by my apartment's weedeaters but I get forgotten weapons I'm happy
An analysis of the failure modes would be interesting. It seemed to be something to do with the way the fired brass ejected (or didn't), and the feed from the magazine.
This is actually a really neat little pdw. Shame it faded away without some more development.
The CZ 61 was the go to for the Good guys and Bad. I used a 32acp version to test out and was shocked how well it ran.
Great video as usual. As we know, CZ is great firearm manufacturer. They producing very good quality firearms.
regards from Switzerland
I heard every Swiss has an assault rifle locked at home, in case of war. How about voting to allow soldiers to pick any Nato standard rifles? Then you can have Bren 2.
Cut a pool noodle and wrap it around the stock. Now you have comfortability and a floating pew pew
I was just wondering i they'd let Ian actually shoot this gun, when it cut to the range, thank you CZ!
Neat gun. Fix the trigger reset issue, some filler to prevent spent cases from jamming in over the trunion, lengthen the stock and add some rounded meat to the strut, make the rear sight usable (larger aperture?), switch the rail to Picatinny, amd maybe change the charging handle so it points straight up instead of out (like a Galil - easiest way to make it ambi with minimal changes to the gun). Maybe add a lightweight shroud with an attachment selected on the bottom to cover some of that exposed barrel (and give you a place for a VFG if broomsticks on your broomsticks are your thing) and thread the barrel for a can.
Literally all the sorts of things that would likely have ended up happening if the gun got a few more iterations in development before being smothered in the crib.
I think you'd end up with a *very* nice pistol caliber PDW, within the same form factor and likely no significant weight increase, that would be an excellent (and discrete) VIP protection "break contact gun" designed to get the detail and protectee back to the Hate Wagon where the carbines are stashed. Basically, what the US Army was looking for in the APC9K.
Given the recent introduction of .30 Super Carry, I could see revisiting this creating an interesting product.
What a great company CZ is!
That’s Dope AF
Reminds Me of the Tech 9
No cheese grader muzzle but for some reason it still reminds of the Techa
It's got a nice aesthetic to the design it's well thought out
Cute little gun! Interesting bolt.
OMG a CZ made Jati-Matic, how revolting, just can't wait to see it shoot lol.
The CZ guys seem to love you! How kind of them
That footage of the freezing shooting range is perfect for cooling me down in this hot summer.😀
Reminds me of the Parker Hale PDW, which hinted at more function for less effort.
Got to love the Czechs. Damn smart gun designers.
Just FYI it is no longer "numb cheeks" cold here. We are in "careful, the asphalt is melting" heatwaves part of the year now.
And if you like CZ I wholeheartedly recommend P10. They knocked it out of park with that one, hard contender to dethrone CZ75
Definitely in the top five for most adorable pdw's