The Ross Shaefer iteration of The Late Show on Fox was among other things, notable for marking the last time that all of the main cast members of Gilligan's Island (including Tina Louise) appeared on camera together. Less than a year later, Jim Backus (Thurston Howell III) died after battling Parkinson's Disease. It also featured a reunion of the cast of the 1960s Batman TV series (Adam West, Burt Ward, Yvonne Craig, Julie Newmar, Eartha Kitt, Frank Gorshin, and Alan Napier). It was one of the final public appearances of Alan Napier (who played Alfred Pennyworth), who died not too long after his appearance on The Late Show. There was also a reunion of the cast of National Lampoon's Animal House ( Tim Matheson, Martha Smith, Stephen Furst, James Daughton, and John Vernon) in honor of its tenth anniversary.
I had heard that Johnny was also grooming McLean Stevenson to be his permanent cohost but he jumped ship for the TV show hello Larry. Carson was so pissed off that he made fun of the show continuously to the point where the show became a pariah and was canceled after two seasons
It’s a little more involved than that. “Hello, Larry” was created and kept getting retooled to keep Stevenson under contract with NBC so he could replace Carson. Once Carson decided to sign a new contract, “Hello Larry” was finally abandoned and McLean released from his contract. I go more in depth on this in my Patreon-exclusive look at “Hello, Larry” from last year.
The REAL networks tried hard to compete with Carson in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They finally gave up and gave us night owls alternatives a lot of us fondly remember. Just how many interviews can you sit through at 11:30 pm ? The Fox Network's idea to scrap independent stations and add ten o'clock news was also the death of alternative entertainment. News is cheap but just how many times can you watch that rain footage in one evening? Great job as usual. Keep up the good work.
And then some of those Fox affiliates ended up filling that 11pm slot with Arsenio Hall's new syndicated late night talk show after signing a deal with Paramount Television.
Ironically, Arsenio was really Johnny's first real threat in a long time because Arsenio attracted the young, hip urban audience that Johnny never had.
@@Quartzquiz333 There was a hilarious Saturday Night Live skit where Carson rebranded himself as "Carsenio" and turned The Tonight Show into a clone of Arsenio's show, complete with Carson having a Kid-N-Play haircut. Ironically Arsenio's downfall was not Carson but his successor. Arsenio was being interviewed by Entertainment Weekly magazine about his own late night career in the aftermath of the Leno/Letterman scandal over who would take over for Carson. At one point during the interview, Arsenio impulsively and jokingly said about Leno, "I'm going to kick his ass." EW ran with that and put it on the cover of the magazine. The backlash led to his ratings crumbling and his show being cancelled.
@@LotmeisterThe CBS affiliate in my hometown carried The Arsenio Hall Show in favor of Pat Sajak's train wreck of a show.The Pat Sajak Show would be a good subject for 13 Week Theatre.
Carson Entertainment is usually good about allowing low quality clips of the show being used in videos. A friend of mine made some videos involving the show and he contacted them directly and they were perfectly fine with them as long as they were home recordings.
What makes this even worse is that not only did this fail as a show, Joan ended up getting ghosted by Johnny Carson and being banned off the Tonight Show until Jimmy Fallon took over
As a gen x latchkey kid. I have TRULY enjoyed your take on the history of TV I vividly remember. But, you have actually enlightened me to things I haven't learned in all the other youtube takes on shows. Not to mention, you've hit on shows others don't. You have a loyal fan. I wish I was wealthy enough to pay you. But, I'll do the next best thing and feed the algo and like and comment on EVERY video I watch, And I Have shared you around. Keep it up buddy!!
That's all the longer her show ran? Wow! And Lucille Ball managed to get on there and produce another of the most memorable and iconic moments in television history, too. I have a clip from my local then-independent channel KMSP with a promo for the Joan Rivers show, so I thought it ran longer.
You do a great job here!! Your videos are very informative and entertaining. Just watched the SNL 80 & Jerry Lewis episodes. Looking forward to this one! Thank you!
I had this episode on while cooking and not really watching, the conclusion I came to was that the Joan Rivers show was mostly the audience screaming like maniacs.
Fun fact: Murdoch's launching of Fox and obtaining clearances for the Late Show is what killed the long-running Merv Griffin Show as Merv had long been syndicated by Metromedia and even after production was taken over by KingsWorld in 1984, the former Metromedia stations remained the key outlets for Merv until they announced they would stop carrying his show in favour of Joan Rivers, leading to Merv and KingsWorld deciding to cancel the long-running show in the summer of 1986, weeks before the Late Show's launch. Makes you wonder what would have happened had Fox simply made the well-established Merv Griffin show a network show and then transitioned that show to a new host when Merv, who was in his 60s, would likely have retired on his own within a few years? (The other unknown, of course, is what if Fox had been savvy enough to sign Arsenio on permanently as Rivers' replacement rather than allow a syndicator to grab him when his 13-week contract expired.
I was a preteen when Arsenio's syndicated show started, and I used to stay up late just to watch his monologues. They were hilarious! Way better than Carson's. Of course Carson was playing to an older, more established demographic.
There needs to be a 13 Week Theatre installment on The Wilton-North Report. By the looks and sounds of it, the show was in a sense, a prototype of The Daily Show. Conan O'Brien actually got his start by working on that show.
I have one show featuring Sneak Preview guest Michael Medved. The show didn't know whether it was talk show, science reporting or what. Neither did Fox.
For all his charm as a host and interviewer, Johnny Carson was by no means a nice guy. Who could blame Joan for wanting to be something more than his fill-in?
There are a lot of videos on UA-cam where Joan rivers talks in depth about what happened. Her husband, Edgar, hadn't ever really recovered from a heart attack he'd had a few years earlier. He ended up having serious clashes with the people at Fox about who was actually running the show. Joan blamed both of them for causing unnecessary friction in what was essentially a clash of egos.
@@PabSungenis There are some really interesting videos here on UA-cam where Joan rivers talks in depth about what happened. Her husband, Edgar, hadn't ever really recovered from a heart attack he'd had a few years earlier. He ended up having serious clashes with the people at Fox about who was actually running the show. Joan blamed both of them for causing unnecessary friction in what was essentially a clash of egos. She said the people at Fox told her that either Edgar went or she would go too. She didn't really believe they'd follow through with the threat, so she stood with Edgar and both of them went. There were then all kinds of rival stories put out by both Fox and Joan Rivers about the viewing figures, and how much of a factor they'd been in her leaving.
It's absolutely beyond belief that anyone could dare to post a video about this program without even bothering to mention Edgar Rosenberg at all. His role in the show, his role in the disputes with FBC, and the show's cancellation leading to his suicide are all crucial, and the omissions are criminal. Shame on you.
I read that Joan Rivers was the regular substitute host so that the viewers would be grateful to have Johnny back. (Okay I read it MAD Magazine.Chuckle!)
I was really, really young when Joan Rivers' late night Fox show was running, so I don't really have a lot of first memories of watching it. But I would imagine that a little bit of Joan Rivers could go a long way. That isn't to say that Joan Rivers wasn't funny or a great entertainer, it's just that she (or at the very least, the persona or character that she put on) was abrasive. There's no other way to really put it. She had that distinctively, shrill, raspy, and thick "new yawk" accent and her comedy could be borderline mean-spirited.
This was a really unpleasant episode in which nobody really came out of it looking good. In Carson's defence, a number of people he'd worked with had gone on to rival shows, telling him in advance, and he could be supportive. In the case of Dick Cavett, he often had him back on the Tonight show after his own talk show didn't last. It's difficult to understand why exactly Joan Rivers didn't discuss it with Carson, particularly as Joan had allowed Carson to use her home several years earlier when he was secretly meeting ABC executives when they were attempting to get him to move from NBC. Carson's former lawyer and confidant Henry Bushkin felt that much of the blame rested with Joan's husband, Edgar. Edgar had had a serious heart attack several years earlier and it had changed his personality quite a bit. He'd become paranoid and erratic. Bushkin said he used to act like a "secret agent". Joan also said that Edgar was paranoid that if news got out about the Fox deal, NBC would pull her off the air immediately and she wouldn't be on TV for months before the Fox show started - so they could only tell anyone about it days before the public announcement. Joan said a lot of the subsequent trouble at Fox was due to a personality clash between Edgar and Barry Diller from Fox, over who controlled the show. Joan said she blamed both of them. After it all collapsed, Edgar committed suicide. Joan was very critical of the people at Fox and of Barry Diller. In perhaps a strange move, Joan seemed to have no problem working with Barry Diller again, but this time at QVC. It underlines how cut throat and unpleasant so much of it all was, but $$$ override everything. Like so many celebrities, they had fairly dark elements to their personalities. Carson's problems are well documented. Joan's obsessiveness about her career also came to light - her daughter Melissa talked in depth about how Joan's career was her "other child" and came above pretty much everything.
She didn't have a choice with QVC since Barry Diller bought it! But he called her prior to let her know about the deal. They did become friends and he was at her funeral.
On the other hand, David Brenner TOLD Johnny about *his* offer to do a syndicated late night show {"NIGHTLIFE"} in the fall of 1986 [whch would appear opposite Carson on most stations]. Johnny gave him his blessing, telling Brenner if his series didn't work out, he was always welcome to return as a guest on "THE TONIGHT SHOW". And Johnny was as good as his word, because when "NIGHTLIFE" ended after one season {as Carson knew it would}, David soon returned, and continued to be one of his favored guests until Johnny retired in 1992.
@@fromthesidelines From what I recall Brenner's show was mostly on during Letterman or later. He was not an employee of Carson Productions so big difference but as soon as he told his two producers he was immediately taken off the guest list...Joan was going to have him on the following week she was hosting. Because of that if she had said anything she would have been removed and the contract had not been signed with Fox and wasn't going to be till the day of the press conference. She should have told him since it had nothing do with him but with NBC and his two producers but I think it's understandable why she didn't. The bigger question is why didn't NBC just renew her contract??
It's a shame because her show was good and did very well for Fox with their station line up at the time. There was no way she could or be expected to really compete against Carson when she didn't have even half the stations. She had a younger demographic since she went after guests that Carson would never book - Beastie Boys, George Michael, A-Ha, etc. Her show was in a way a template for Arsenio's who did well but didn't match her ratings. They never seem to bring up the fact that Fox did ask Rivers back after they failed with the Wilton North Report but she refused.
The host of a phone-in show on WMRE tried to promote LATE SHOW by calling someone he found in the phone book named Joan Rivers-late at night. The Woman was angry and station stockholders called and complained.
good thing it was the 80s and not the 70s - that set would have went up in flames quicker than you could show "we'll be right back." with all that TP and silly string
Joan Rivers' late show was great. I watched it all the time. She was a fun an energetic interviewer. You can see that here where she is interviewing Mary Wilson right after her best selling book was released: ua-cam.com/video/wcFHGWmz95w/v-deo.html
The band is Squeeze, best known in the US for their hit "Tempted" with Paul Carrack on lead vocals. Here they're performing "853-5937" from their then-current album "Babylon and On."
@PabSungenis Belated thanks for the reply. UA-cam notifications are more miss than hit, especially recently. I would not have recognized this as Squeeze, but I realize it was a very different configuration by then and I hadn't kept up with them. 🙂
I remember one episode of the show where she had some band on and when she asked for the introductions of the band she cut them off For a commercial break! I thought that was so rude. It might’ve been the bangles
Another thing that hurt this show was Joan Rivers herself.By this time,she was going from funny to obnoxious.How about a video on Fox's even bigger late night flop,The Chevy Chase Show?
All due respect to Joan, but much like Don Rickles, they were both best in small doses. Always great in limited appearances, but neither could sustain a regular network show.
the ONLY gripe I have about your very cool channel is the intro music, its just noise. I always have to start your vids a minute or two in so I can bypass that awful intro music. I know it goes with the awful shows you're discussing but I can't listen to it.
As much as I loved Joan Rivers, her late night show lacked something and the guests were not the best like Carson. I had high hopes that the show would be a must see but it was disappointing.
I'm guessing that besides the alleged roadblocks that Johnny Carson put forth in terms of being able to obtain better guests, at the time, Fox really wasn't a major network. When they went prime-time in the spring of 1987 with Married...with Children, 21 Jump Street, The Tracey Ulman Show, they were only providing a single day, and later two days worth of programming on weekends. They were on a lot of hi-tier numbered UHF stations beyond their collection of owned and operated stations that was born out of Rupert Murdoch's purchase of Metromedia. Fox really wasn't considered a "real" network so to speak until they landed the NFL contract from CBS in late 1993 and their big station affiliation deal with New World Communications shortly thereafter.
Maybe he appealed to older generations in a way I can't understand, or maybe Jack Paar was just that much lamer by comparison, but I never understood the reverence for Johnny Carson.
Paar was more of a witty conversationalist than a comedian. His show was must see TV but his style (and attitudes) became very dated as can be seen by his attempted comebacks. Actually, Pab, it would be interesting if you examined Paar's disastrous attempt at a late-night comeback in 1973 when he went head-to-head against Carson by hosting "Jack Paar Tonite" on ABC as part of ABC's Wide World of Entertainment. Another disaster worth looking at is an earlier ABC attempt against Carson, the Joey Bishop Show (while it lasted longer than 13 weeks, it's still worth examining). There are some clips of both shows on UA-cam.
I remember a couple of substitute hosts when she left the show one was a guy with a mustache and Arsenio and one of the guests was the girlfriend of the guy who was married to Joan Collins who was caught red-handed and she fainted or something and Arsenio was making fun of her
I really like your channel and the work you put into your work. However, Johnny Carson has been dead since 2005 (before UA-cam existed) and there was no need to attack him for whatever his heirs did in regards to copyright strikes. You could have used stills like you did in other sections. I don't really find anything he did here abhorrent, he felt betrayed and chose not to speak to her. I mean there are greater villains in this story. I know the frustration you feel here, it has happened to me repeatedly.on here, but do not maim your great videos. Again please do not be offended, I did not post this with malice
I was never a fan of Joan Rivers. Her comedy was, as alluded to here, quite abrasive and mean spirited and frankly I think she drove her husband to suicide making fun of him with no mercy in her act. Her humor was always boorish, never clever. And I found her later interviews on E! to be hollow. So when Carson put the heavy handed word out that performers couldn't appear on his show if they went on her's, Rivers couldn't have focused more on comedy- because she would wear thin. She couldn't have attempted to appeal to youth- because she was not in that demographic. The only thing left would have been to focus more on female viewers. That's hardly done with the LA Raiders singing or Pee Wee Herman. The fact this obvious answer wasn't explored I think epitomizes Rivers' shortcomings as a performer.
not too many clips of it on youtube, but her early comedy was much different and carson was a huge fan and mentored her i dont think she drove edgar to suicide....he had squandered her entire fortune she too came close to killing herself
Man for her debut, the line-up was stellar for 1986.
The Ross Shaefer iteration of The Late Show on Fox was among other things, notable for marking the last time that all of the main cast members of Gilligan's Island (including Tina Louise) appeared on camera together. Less than a year later, Jim Backus (Thurston Howell III) died after battling Parkinson's Disease.
It also featured a reunion of the cast of the 1960s Batman TV series (Adam West, Burt Ward, Yvonne Craig, Julie Newmar, Eartha Kitt, Frank Gorshin, and Alan Napier). It was one of the final public appearances of Alan Napier (who played Alfred Pennyworth), who died not too long after his appearance on The Late Show.
There was also a reunion of the cast of National Lampoon's Animal House ( Tim Matheson, Martha Smith, Stephen Furst, James Daughton, and John Vernon) in honor of its tenth anniversary.
I had heard that Johnny was also grooming McLean Stevenson to be his permanent cohost but he jumped ship for the TV show hello Larry. Carson was so pissed off that he made fun of the show continuously to the point where the show became a pariah and was canceled after two seasons
It’s a little more involved than that. “Hello, Larry” was created and kept getting retooled to keep Stevenson under contract with NBC so he could replace Carson. Once Carson decided to sign a new contract, “Hello Larry” was finally abandoned and McLean released from his contract.
I go more in depth on this in my Patreon-exclusive look at “Hello, Larry” from last year.
@@PabSungenis You need to review his last 2 shows Condo ('83) and America ('85) as they marked the end of his career.
@@acholl980As well as Dirty Dancing (88)
"Hello Larry" became a PUNCHLINE a la " Ishtar" or "Howard the Duck" or "My Mother the Car" .
One of big booboos ever on Stevenson's part.
11:19: RIP Paul Reubens AKA Pee-Wee Herman 🙏
So sorry to hear you had to re-edit what was clearly a great, original contribution. You're awesome. We appreciate you and your content.
I remember being all excited when Thomas Dolby made an appearance,but that wasn't until some time in 1988.
The REAL networks tried hard to compete with Carson in the late 1960s and early 1970s. They finally gave up and gave us night owls alternatives a lot of us fondly remember. Just how many interviews can you sit through at 11:30 pm ? The Fox Network's idea to scrap independent stations and add ten o'clock news was also the death of alternative entertainment. News is cheap but just how many times can you watch that rain footage in one evening?
Great job as usual. Keep up the good work.
And then some of those Fox affiliates ended up filling that 11pm slot with Arsenio Hall's new syndicated late night talk show after signing a deal with Paramount Television.
Ironically, Arsenio was really Johnny's first real threat in a long time because Arsenio attracted the young, hip urban audience that Johnny never had.
@@Quartzquiz333 There was a hilarious Saturday Night Live skit where Carson rebranded himself as "Carsenio" and turned The Tonight Show into a clone of Arsenio's show, complete with Carson having a Kid-N-Play haircut. Ironically Arsenio's downfall was not Carson but his successor. Arsenio was being interviewed by Entertainment Weekly magazine about his own late night career in the aftermath of the Leno/Letterman scandal over who would take over for Carson. At one point during the interview, Arsenio impulsively and jokingly said about Leno, "I'm going to kick his ass." EW ran with that and put it on the cover of the magazine. The backlash led to his ratings crumbling and his show being cancelled.
@@LotmeisterThe CBS affiliate in my hometown carried The Arsenio Hall Show in favor of Pat Sajak's train wreck of a show.The Pat Sajak Show would be a good subject for 13 Week Theatre.
Carson Entertainment is usually good about allowing low quality clips of the show being used in videos. A friend of mine made some videos involving the show and he contacted them directly and they were perfectly fine with them as long as they were home recordings.
This would be the perfect time to have a video featuring a young Chris Rock.
Pee Wee Herman TPing the set is like, really wholesome LOL
What makes this even worse is that not only did this fail as a show, Joan ended up getting ghosted by Johnny Carson and being banned off the Tonight Show until Jimmy Fallon took over
As a gen x latchkey kid. I have TRULY enjoyed your take on the history of TV I vividly remember. But, you have actually enlightened me to things I haven't learned in all the other youtube takes on shows. Not to mention, you've hit on shows others don't. You have a loyal fan. I wish I was wealthy enough to pay you. But, I'll do the next best thing and feed the algo and like and comment on EVERY video I watch, And I Have shared you around. Keep it up buddy!!
That's all the longer her show ran? Wow! And Lucille Ball managed to get on there and produce another of the most memorable and iconic moments in television history, too.
I have a clip from my local then-independent channel KMSP with a promo for the Joan Rivers show, so I thought it ran longer.
You do a great job here!! Your videos are very informative and entertaining. Just watched the SNL 80 & Jerry Lewis episodes. Looking forward to this one! Thank you!
I love the part about the history of the Dumont Network. That could be a whole video unto itself 😛
It’s been done and by better than me. DuMont is fascinating.
Reason Magazine did an article on Dumont titled Who Killed Captain Video?It was very good, I expect it can be found on the Internet.
Thanks for covering this one! I'd heard of Joan Rivers' show, but I never saw it.
15:15: Arsenio Hall was presumably already committed to the film Coming to America alongside Eddie Murphy.
It's so interesting to see these tv programs that, for one reason or another, didn't make the grade. Some I remember and some I don't.
you neglected to mention that the back stage argument was with Joan's husband and he felt so guilty about getting her fired that he took his own life.
I’ve only recently discovered your channel and I’m loving 13 Week Theatre.
Have you covered Otherworld? That only ran for a few episodes.
It's back! Sorry about the copyright B.S. you are dealing with, but glad to see the video back up.
I had this episode on while cooking and not really watching, the conclusion I came to was that the Joan Rivers show was mostly the audience screaming like maniacs.
Fun fact: Murdoch's launching of Fox and obtaining clearances for the Late Show is what killed the long-running Merv Griffin Show as Merv had long been syndicated by Metromedia and even after production was taken over by KingsWorld in 1984, the former Metromedia stations remained the key outlets for Merv until they announced they would stop carrying his show in favour of Joan Rivers, leading to Merv and KingsWorld deciding to cancel the long-running show in the summer of 1986, weeks before the Late Show's launch. Makes you wonder what would have happened had Fox simply made the well-established Merv Griffin show a network show and then transitioned that show to a new host when Merv, who was in his 60s, would likely have retired on his own within a few years? (The other unknown, of course, is what if Fox had been savvy enough to sign Arsenio on permanently as Rivers' replacement rather than allow a syndicator to grab him when his 13-week contract expired.
I was a preteen when Arsenio's syndicated show started, and I used to stay up late just to watch his monologues. They were hilarious! Way better than Carson's. Of course Carson was playing to an older, more established demographic.
There needs to be a 13 Week Theatre installment on The Wilton-North Report. By the looks and sounds of it, the show was in a sense, a prototype of The Daily Show. Conan O'Brien actually got his start by working on that show.
the thing with wilton north though, when I did my research on it, there was only one clip of the show on youtube, lol
I have one show featuring Sneak Preview guest Michael Medved. The show didn't know whether it was talk show, science reporting or what. Neither did Fox.
Conan O'Brien's version of THE TONIGHT SHOW would qualify too, even though it ran for about 8 months.
For all his charm as a host and interviewer, Johnny Carson was by no means a nice guy. Who could blame Joan for wanting to be something more than his fill-in?
I dearly love Joan so much! My mother and I watched her every night together. Sad it didn't last.
That is some incredible list of opening night guests ! Roth was no longer w/ Van Halen though.
Alright I can say it again: Johnny was such a baby about this.
Oh! And didn't Joan's husband, Edgar kinda sabotage her too?
On the contrary. He was fired at the same time as her and ended up committing suicide not too long after her.
Yes. I've read that he clashed with FBC and was a major factor in the firing. He didn't know what he was doing.
There are a lot of videos on UA-cam where Joan rivers talks in depth about what happened. Her husband, Edgar, hadn't ever really recovered from a heart attack he'd had a few years earlier. He ended up having serious clashes with the people at Fox about who was actually running the show. Joan blamed both of them for causing unnecessary friction in what was essentially a clash of egos.
@@PabSungenis There are some really interesting videos here on UA-cam where Joan rivers talks in depth about what happened. Her husband, Edgar, hadn't ever really recovered from a heart attack he'd had a few years earlier. He ended up having serious clashes with the people at Fox about who was actually running the show. Joan blamed both of them for causing unnecessary friction in what was essentially a clash of egos. She said the people at Fox told her that either Edgar went or she would go too. She didn't really believe they'd follow through with the threat, so she stood with Edgar and both of them went. There were then all kinds of rival stories put out by both Fox and Joan Rivers about the viewing figures, and how much of a factor they'd been in her leaving.
carson killed edgar
Carson did the blacklisting to the Thicke of The Night show as well.
Alan Thicke was never much competition to Johnny. Carson's regular guests knew better than to appear on *his* show.
It's absolutely beyond belief that anyone could dare to post a video about this program without even bothering to mention Edgar Rosenberg at all. His role in the show, his role in the disputes with FBC, and the show's cancellation leading to his suicide are all crucial, and the omissions are criminal. Shame on you.
I read that Joan Rivers was the regular substitute host so that the viewers would be grateful to have Johnny back. (Okay I read it MAD Magazine.Chuckle!)
I was really, really young when Joan Rivers' late night Fox show was running, so I don't really have a lot of first memories of watching it. But I would imagine that a little bit of Joan Rivers could go a long way. That isn't to say that Joan Rivers wasn't funny or a great entertainer, it's just that she (or at the very least, the persona or character that she put on) was abrasive. There's no other way to really put it. She had that distinctively, shrill, raspy, and thick "new yawk" accent and her comedy could be borderline mean-spirited.
I'm watching this just two days after the passing of Pat Robertson, who owned TV .25 in Boston
He owns the Fox affiliate in hell now.
Keep doing God's work, Pab. Don't let anyone get you down. I love seeing your new content when it comes out.
This was a really unpleasant episode in which nobody really came out of it looking good. In Carson's defence, a number of people he'd worked with had gone on to rival shows, telling him in advance, and he could be supportive. In the case of Dick Cavett, he often had him back on the Tonight show after his own talk show didn't last. It's difficult to understand why exactly Joan Rivers didn't discuss it with Carson, particularly as Joan had allowed Carson to use her home several years earlier when he was secretly meeting ABC executives when they were attempting to get him to move from NBC. Carson's former lawyer and confidant Henry Bushkin felt that much of the blame rested with Joan's husband, Edgar. Edgar had had a serious heart attack several years earlier and it had changed his personality quite a bit. He'd become paranoid and erratic. Bushkin said he used to act like a "secret agent". Joan also said that Edgar was paranoid that if news got out about the Fox deal, NBC would pull her off the air immediately and she wouldn't be on TV for months before the Fox show started - so they could only tell anyone about it days before the public announcement. Joan said a lot of the subsequent trouble at Fox was due to a personality clash between Edgar and Barry Diller from Fox, over who controlled the show. Joan said she blamed both of them. After it all collapsed, Edgar committed suicide. Joan was very critical of the people at Fox and of Barry Diller. In perhaps a strange move, Joan seemed to have no problem working with Barry Diller again, but this time at QVC. It underlines how cut throat and unpleasant so much of it all was, but $$$ override everything. Like so many celebrities, they had fairly dark elements to their personalities. Carson's problems are well documented. Joan's obsessiveness about her career also came to light - her daughter Melissa talked in depth about how Joan's career was her "other child" and came above pretty much everything.
She didn't have a choice with QVC since Barry Diller bought it! But he called her prior to let her know about the deal. They did become friends and he was at her funeral.
On the other hand, David Brenner TOLD Johnny about *his* offer to do a syndicated late night show {"NIGHTLIFE"} in the fall of 1986 [whch would appear opposite Carson on most stations]. Johnny gave him his blessing, telling Brenner if his series didn't work out, he was always welcome to return as a guest on "THE TONIGHT SHOW". And Johnny was as good as his word, because when "NIGHTLIFE" ended after one season {as Carson knew it would}, David soon returned, and continued to be one of his favored guests until Johnny retired in 1992.
@@fromthesidelines From what I recall Brenner's show was mostly on during Letterman or later. He was not an employee of Carson Productions so big difference but as soon as he told his two producers he was immediately taken off the guest list...Joan was going to have him on the following week she was hosting. Because of that if she had said anything she would have been removed and the contract had not been signed with Fox and wasn't going to be till the day of the press conference. She should have told him since it had nothing do with him but with NBC and his two producers but I think it's understandable why she didn't. The bigger question is why didn't NBC just renew her contract??
In New York, "DAVID BRENNER'S NIGHTLIFE" was seen on WABC-TV at Midnight (opposite the second half of "THE TONIGHT SHOW").
Why? Johnny had more clout with NBC than Joan did.
Another good one to do: One of the Boys with Dana Carvey, Nathan Lane and Mickey Rooney. If you have already done it, apologies.
This show caused the end of Joan's longtime friendship with Johnny Carson.
It's a shame because her show was good and did very well for Fox with their station line up at the time. There was no way she could or be expected to really compete against Carson when she didn't have even half the stations. She had a younger demographic since she went after guests that Carson would never book - Beastie Boys, George Michael, A-Ha, etc. Her show was in a way a template for Arsenio's who did well but didn't match her ratings. They never seem to bring up the fact that Fox did ask Rivers back after they failed with the Wilton North Report but she refused.
Great video but one doubt do you think you can make a 13 week theater episode revolving around -Heroes reborn,Pan am and also I married Dora
Personally, I'm shocked that The Wilton North Report was not a ratings juggernaut.
11:29 Chris Rock was on the show? What? Really? Well, slap me down.
You REALLY love saying that joke, don't you?
IMDB confirms that is Chris Rock
fascinating video. the copyright stuff is unfortunate but at least the video still works without the clips.
We had it on our Fox channel, wofl 35 Orlando
The host of a phone-in show on WMRE tried to promote LATE SHOW by calling someone he found in the phone book named Joan Rivers-late at night. The Woman was angry and station stockholders called and complained.
Thank goodness I downloaded the original before UA-cam removed it. But this is fine as well.
She is like Don Rickles....a little bit goes a long way. Didn't want a steady diet every night...
good thing it was the 80s and not the 70s - that set would have went up in flames quicker than you could show "we'll be right back." with all that TP and silly string
Please do a 13-week theater on Double Dare, to be specific, Fox's Family Double Dare from 1988 it ran 13 episodes from April 3rd to July 23rd 1988
Joan Rivers' late show was great. I watched it all the time. She was a fun an energetic interviewer. You can see that here where she is interviewing Mary Wilson right after her best selling book was released:
ua-cam.com/video/wcFHGWmz95w/v-deo.html
hol up, I'm rewatching this, did Joan wear the same outfit for the first and last episode. Oh, Joan.
15:04 What band is this? I’m trying to hear the song but I can never make out the lyrics. Really enjoying the 13 Week Theatre series, btw. 😎
The band is Squeeze, best known in the US for their hit "Tempted" with Paul Carrack on lead vocals. Here they're performing "853-5937" from their then-current album "Babylon and On."
@PabSungenis Belated thanks for the reply. UA-cam notifications are more miss than hit, especially recently. I would not have recognized this as Squeeze, but I realize it was a very different configuration by then and I hadn't kept up with them. 🙂
Joan couldn't complete with the king of the late show JOHNNY CARSON
Her daughter Mellisa helped with booking rock bands as Joan wasn't exactly in touch with the young crowd.
So a station owned by Pat Robertson didn't want to carry the show...makes me think
The Late Show with Joan Rivers premiered 3 days after Double Dare had premiered on Nickelodeon.
omg nobody cares.
Are the uncut versions of all the episodes on your patreon?
When possible.
I remember one episode of the show where she had some band on and when she asked for the introductions of the band she cut them off For a commercial break! I thought that was so rude. It might’ve been the bangles
The perils of being live and up against the clock.
"Live" on tape, that is,
"Live" on *tape,* that is.
Another thing that hurt this show was Joan Rivers herself.By this time,she was going from funny to obnoxious.How about a video on Fox's even bigger late night flop,The Chevy Chase Show?
All due respect to Joan, but much like Don Rickles, they were both best in small doses. Always great in limited appearances, but neither could sustain a regular network show.
Joan Rivers peaked in about 1975. The rest was a long, sad slide downhill.
the ONLY gripe I have about your very cool channel is the intro music, its just noise. I always have to start your vids a minute or two in so I can bypass that awful intro music. I know it goes with the awful shows you're discussing but I can't listen to it.
As much as I loved Joan Rivers, her late night show lacked something and the guests were not the best like Carson. I had high hopes that the show would be a must see but it was disappointing.
I'm guessing that besides the alleged roadblocks that Johnny Carson put forth in terms of being able to obtain better guests, at the time, Fox really wasn't a major network. When they went prime-time in the spring of 1987 with Married...with Children, 21 Jump Street, The Tracey Ulman Show, they were only providing a single day, and later two days worth of programming on weekends. They were on a lot of hi-tier numbered UHF stations beyond their collection of owned and operated stations that was born out of Rupert Murdoch's purchase of Metromedia. Fox really wasn't considered a "real" network so to speak until they landed the NFL contract from CBS in late 1993 and their big station affiliation deal with New World Communications shortly thereafter.
Maybe he appealed to older generations in a way I can't understand, or maybe Jack Paar was just that much lamer by comparison, but I never understood the reverence for Johnny Carson.
Paar was more of a witty conversationalist than a comedian. His show was must see TV but his style (and attitudes) became very dated as can be seen by his attempted comebacks. Actually, Pab, it would be interesting if you examined Paar's disastrous attempt at a late-night comeback in 1973 when he went head-to-head against Carson by hosting "Jack Paar Tonite" on ABC as part of ABC's Wide World of Entertainment. Another disaster worth looking at is an earlier ABC attempt against Carson, the Joey Bishop Show (while it lasted longer than 13 weeks, it's still worth examining). There are some clips of both shows on UA-cam.
I remember a couple of substitute hosts when she left the show one was a guy with a mustache and Arsenio and one of the guests was the girlfriend of the guy who was married to Joan Collins who was caught red-handed and she fainted or something and Arsenio was making fun of her
I thought she was a nice host. She seemed to get along with the guests ok.
I really like your channel and the work you put into your work. However, Johnny Carson has been dead since 2005 (before UA-cam existed) and there was no need to attack him for whatever his heirs did in regards to copyright strikes.
You could have used stills like you did in other sections.
I don't really find anything he did here abhorrent, he felt betrayed and chose not to speak to her. I mean there are greater villains in this story.
I know the frustration you feel here, it has happened to me repeatedly.on here, but do not maim your great videos.
Again please do not be offended, I did not post this with malice
Can't criticize St. Johnny. 🤨
The Wilton North Report? Who was that quintessential late 80s band? Worst era for music...
Joan Rivers was NEVER EVER FUNNY
Not even ONCE!
And super disgusting to look at IMHO
I was never a fan of Joan Rivers. Her comedy was, as alluded to here, quite abrasive and mean spirited and frankly I think she drove her husband to suicide making fun of him with no mercy in her act. Her humor was always boorish, never clever. And I found her later interviews on E! to be hollow. So when Carson put the heavy handed word out that performers couldn't appear on his show if they went on her's, Rivers couldn't have focused more on comedy- because she would wear thin. She couldn't have attempted to appeal to youth- because she was not in that demographic. The only thing left would have been to focus more on female viewers. That's hardly done with the LA Raiders singing or Pee Wee Herman. The fact this obvious answer wasn't explored I think epitomizes Rivers' shortcomings as a performer.
not too many clips of it on youtube, but her early comedy was much different and carson was a huge fan and mentored her
i dont think she drove edgar to suicide....he had squandered her entire fortune
she too came close to killing herself
Joan was treated so unprofessionally. Such a bastard really to her. She deserved it, she was funny.... she did it just as good.
Bert Convy? hahaha. He died in 1991... bad choice.