What's the Better Rock Polishing Machine?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 23 бер 2023
- Have you been thinking about taking the next step after rock tumbling? A common piece of equipment to get next is either a flat lap or a cab machine. In this video, I'll show the pros and cons of each.
- MERCH -
michigan-rocks.myspreadshop.com
- KINGSLEY NORTH -
Kingsley North is a lapidary store in Michigan's U.P. They make a great cab machine and sell many other brands too. They have a huge selection rough rock, tumblers, grit, jewelry supplies etc. at good prices. I buy most of my coarse grit from here in 45 lb. bags. It's the best price I have found. If you buy using the following link, I make a small commission.
bit.ly/3MerxdI
This is the cabbing machine I use:
kingsleynorth.com/kingsley-no...
- THE ROCK SHED -
I buy a lot of lapidary supplies from The Rock Shed. I don't make money from your purchases there, but they have good prices and good service. This is where I buy my finer grits and polish.
rockshed.com
- AMAZON STOREFRONT -
I also have an Amazon storefront. This is where you can find other products you may have seen in my videos. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. It doesn't cost you extra.
www.amazon.com/shop/michiganrocks
- FACEBOOK -
/ michiganrocksrob
- INSTAGRAM -
/ michiganrocksrob
- SUBSCRIBE -
On Michigan Rocks you can join me on relaxing rock hunts in picturesque Michigan. I'll also show you how to polish rocks and teach you other lapidary techniques. New videos are posted every Friday and some Tuesdays. Subscribe now so you don't miss any upcoming videos!
ua-cam.com/users/MichiganRock... - Навчання та стиль
I have a flatlap. I haven't had the chance to set it up yet. I do plan on getting a cabbing machine in a couple of months. I love how you show all the differences in machines and compare them. You have taught me a lot over these past few years. Thank you for being an awesome teacher.
You're welcome, Donna. I'll keep trying my best to make decent videos.
I think it comes naturally to you Rob. I love all your videos.
As usual, superb summary of both machines including pros and cons. Don't know how I'd learn all I've been figuring out and learning without you and your remarkable video. Thank you
You're welcome. I'm glad to help.
I will most likely never have either of these two machines in my life..but I do appreciate and love the information you provide us in these in-depth videos 😁
Who knows, maybe you will. I never thought I'd have something like this either, and look at me now.
Well done, Rob. you've been my mentor as I've begun this terrific hobby. You are a fine teacher!
Thanks!
You can learn so much from others in this hobby! We're lucky to also have a great local rock shop, and I've learned a ton from them. If you look it up, we shared one with Ben on our channel. Thanks again to Rob for sharing your expertise!
Love the summary at the end, and the audio room treatment. Great video.
You mean the blue things on the walls? Those are sort of new. I'm not sure if they're helping, but they can't hurt.
That’s the next thing on my agenda. You explain the machines great. Thanks for showing us!❤
You're welcome.
Thank you. Definite food for thought
Thanks Rob, I've been trying to figure out my next step on Recovery Rocks MN. This helps alot!
I'm glad to help!
Very nice tutorial.
Very nice information !
Great job,thank you
As always, good information.
Thank you for the comparison. Nice choice of colors for the lettering at the end !!! I was going to drive up to Michigan for the weekend but the weather forecast looked pretty dismal.
One forecast I looked at says seven inches tomorrow and the other said 11. Ugh. I was just about to venture out to a beach too.
Interesting can't wait to see your next video my son really likes to see your videos he learned a lot from your videos
There will be a new one next week, and the week after that, and the week after that. He should have plenty to look forward to.
Hey! Thank you for posting your video. I've been looking into buying one of these machines to help me get into cutting and polishing. Really enjoyed your video.
I made it just for people like you. I've been getting a lot of questions about my cab machine lately. Since they're pretty expensive, I thought people might like to know that there's an alternative.
@@MichiganRocks Much appreciated. 🙂
Awsome episode!!!!!!
Thank you , was very useful !
You're welcome.
Great information as always!
Thanks.
Very informative! You were very thorough. 😍🥰😇👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
That's how I try to be.
Thanks for the video 👍
You're welcome!
I've been debating on whether I should get a cabbing machine or a flat lap. Thank you for this video! After watching this video, I think I'll go with a cabbing machine when I'm ready to make the purchase.
You won't be disappointed with a cab machine. I much prefer that over a flat lap. Flat laps are good if you're short of space or just can't afford a cab machine.
Hey Rob, so I am one who uses a flatlap for cabbing. I actually bought the slant cabber. I know this video is a year old, but if you were looking to make polishing the backs of the cabs a bit easier, go all the way to a 260 electroplated disc or even a 360 electroplated disc (if needed)( then drop down to a 220 Mesh Disc (soft disc). The 220 mesh disc is soft, but its actually strong enough to remove material ( deep scratches) and it does so pretty quickly
When I do backs, I start with a hard disc, like 60 or 80 (I can't remember which I have) and then go to 100 soft. My more coarse soft backed discs are silicon carbide. Maybe that's the problem. I find that even when I feel like I'm holding the rock flat on the lap, the edges polish up first.
@@MichiganRocks Yes! they do. So the mesh soft discs don't grind as uniform as the electroplate discs. I've noticed that as well, it starts from the outside rim and works towards the center. My next course of action is to try using all electroplate hard discs since thats what's done usually when faceting. As long as you give the rock enough time on the 180 -260, it seems to get rid of the scratches quite quickly on everything else. When you drop back down a plate from a higher hard disc to a lower soft disc, thats what usually gets it done pretty nicely. It was taking me forever as well, and I learned that little trick. Pressing down on the stone when on the mesh discs is needed. Those soft discs do form around the stone, even without the foam pads.
I do everything in one shot so i never have to go back to finish the backs. 80, 180, 260(hard discs), then I drop to a 220 soft, 325 soft, 600, 1200, 3000... You can probably skip whatever plates depending on the material if it makes it easier. But that bridge between your hard disc and soft discs is what really makes it happen, too far of a jump and you'll be on it forever.
Btw, This is a video I posted demonstrating the ease of use on the slant cabber and how simple it is to cut your girdles. I LOVE my slant cabber
www.reddit.com/r/Lapidary/comments/1c8y2uc/comment/l0jk2ps/
Hi-techs Mesh smoothing discs are diamond, that's what I use and It's given me zero trouble. Hope it helps!
@@theskyeel8605 I'll check out your video. Thanks.
I wish you lasting success😍😍😍
Thank you.
Excellent video! Rob, do you have any videos that show the process for adding the groove around the cabachon?
I'm sure I've shown it somewhere, but I don't know where off the top of my head. I use a glass grinding machine with a groove bit. I have a similar machine to the one I use and the exact bit listed in my Amazon storefront. You can find that in the description of this video.
I have the DP Titan and their 8RL flat lap. Both are great for what they do. I like to cut “windows” into shelf specimens and the flat lap is perfect for this. The Cabber as we all know is perfect for shaping stones for pendants, etc.
Yep, they both have their uses. If you could only have one or the other, which would you choose? I'd go with the cabber with no hesitation. If I was just polishing Petoskey stones, and not making cabs at all, I might have a more difficult time deciding.
I like your Lapidary Machines. I am on the Hunt for a Faceting Machine.
Happy hunting! I hope you find something great. I have no faceting experience, so I can't help you though.
Thanks again for sharing your insights Rob. I got a good deal on a used Genie a few years ago and finally fired it up this week. The name is accurate. Even a “learn by doing” trial and error newbie like me can get great results in a short time.
It took you years to set it up? Think of all the rocks you could have polished in that time! At least you're rolling now. You're going to have a lot of fun with that.
@@MichiganRocks Already am having fun! Question about your Kingsley machine- on the right end what kind of pad do you use with the cerium oxide? I’ve just been using cheapo Harbor Freight cloth polishing wheel with blue compound on a mini drill press. Works ok but your method looks much better.
It's sort of weird, but seems to work well. I don't know how long it lasts because I don't always use it. It's a pre charged cerium oxide pad. It's smooth, not like felt or something. I don't see any way you could add more cerium oxide to it because it wouldn't stick. I'd suggest going to the Rock Tumbling Hobby forums and asking what more experienced cabbers recommend. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com
@@MichiganRocks Thanks for the info!
If I may bug you one last time about your cerium oxide pad, is it the Diamond Pacific Nova disc or some other brand. Is it available at Kingsley North?
I built a flat lap with a harbor freight polisher and a 5 gallon bucket. Very cheap and easy to make and it works great. A cab machine would be nice but i cant justify the $1000+ just yet.
Do you have a link to any pictures of it for anyone who might be interested in doing the same?
@@MichiganRocks i dont but i could probably take a small video of it and post it to my channel if theres interest.
I'm interested. I can't speak for anyone else though.
2nd!!! Love it.
Great video! You clearly explained the differences between the machines so that viewers can make informed decisions. Now I just have to win the lottery so I can buy a cab machine!
I think you might be better off saving the money for lottery tickets toward a polishing machine.
Hey, for the first time; I'm the first. Always love your videos Rob.
If you're first twice, doesn't that make you second?
Lots of good information! We've been thinking we need one of the flat style laps for our larger rocks. Also, I'd love to see how you made the groove in the first cab. Thanks for another great video!
I show that in this video: ua-cam.com/video/U_9ASoyvaM0/v-deo.html
Great video! I had virtually no knowledge of flat laps. Thanks. My only question is how do you keep your KNC6 so clean? :)
I clean it pretty well after each use. I like to keep it looking nice for the next video.
The 12 inch flat lap that I recently delivered to Michigan is one I built myself.
That's great. I think one of mine is homemade, but I didn't make it.
Great video! Don’t you need a saw to cut the stones first?
It depends on what you want to do. I polish whole stones on both of these machines, and I also make cabochons, which requires slabbing and cutting to a rough shape first.
You can sand the larger pieces on a high speed sander and because the center nut is recessed, you can do pieces as large as you can lift. My newest video is polishing a couple of larger pieces.
I just watched your video and left a comment there.
I like looking at machinery. How do you keep the plywood backer discs from warping? Are they coated to be waterproof, or does the spinning throw off the water so the plywood stays dry?
Yes, the wood stays pretty dry. The water is on top and gets thrown off like you said. When I got the machine, it came with a lot of different plywood discs with various surfaces and polish combinations. I made a few more myself. None have ever warped, and they're plain, unprotected wood.
I have the Hi-Teck 8" flat lap. I find that it works well for flat surfacing smaller rocks. For me it is not a good option for larger rocks because you can only use half of the disc because of the nut in the center. It also takes a lot of time to grind down a larger rock by hand. Currently Rockhounding has a video that shows a modification to the Hi-Teck where you can use the entire disc to polish a rock. Since I like to polish the faces of larger rocks and slabs, I plan to purchase a vibrating flat lap.
Yes, I think the vibrating lap is the way to go for polishing slabs. I'd get one, but I don't have a big interest in polishing slabs. A few would be fun, but I think I'd get bored after that.
Petascy(?) stone looks awesome only with partial polish.
I always used my works industrial abrasive belt griners to polish my stone, thankfully. Im curious how much does a small polisher cost, what is the range for about the size u have ?(6 step polisher)
They range in price from about $1300 to $6000. Here are links to the one I have and the same machine with less expensive wheels.
Cabber 6 with upgraded wheels (the one in this video):
kingsleynorth.com/kingsley-north-cabber-6-nova.html?ref=robertabram1& (affiliate link)
Standard Cabber 6:
kingsleynorth.com/kingsley-north-cabber-6.html?ref=robertabram1& (affiliate link)
It all comes down to what you are making, space and what you can afford.
A really nice cab machine will run you $2,000 and up, a really nice flat lap will run you $800.
So, I could have 3 or 4 flat laps, for the price of a cab machine.
Personally, I think cab machines are louder when they operate over a flat lap. But, that could be brand specific.
My cab machine isn't very loud, but neither is my flat lap. I have never used a modern or even commercially made flat lap.
Hello Rob I think I have an agatised piece of Favasite
It is very hard and difficult to polish
Do you or your son inlaw David know if this is possibly what I have ?
I found it in Wellston Michigan along with other pieces that are much softer
I was wondering what it would rate on the Mohs scale
Thank you
Carl Zatsick
Farmington Michigan
I think I'd call that "silicified" rather than "agatized". As you know, I'm not a geologist, but I'm fairly sure that's what it is. I find some very white Petoskey Stones in Lake Huron that seem to be about 7 on the Mohs scale, just comparing how they tumble with other rocks. I have also seen favosites like that, especially in Lake Michigan.
Rob, I have a cab machine made by Barranca. Trim saw on the left, then 80 grit, 180 grit diamond hard wheels and a soft wheel [expanding], that I can change the belt on. and a 6 inch polishing disk on the right end. The belts for the soft wheel help keep the cost down. I do not like the trim saw on it. It runs in oil and is messy.
Do you have to run oil in it? For a short time, I was putting an additive in my water. I pretty quickly decided that the additive cost more and was more of a pain than just replacing the blade slightly more often.
I have never used and expanding drum. How long does it take to change the belt?
@@MichiganRocks The oil is just for the blade so I drained it out and don't use the saw. Have another 6 in. trim saw. The expanding wheel is not blocked by any bearings , so just shut off machine slide off belt, slide on new one and start up machine. Approximately one minute. Currently rockhounding just did a video recently on expanding wheels.
That's about what I thought. Not quite as convenient as having another wheel, but not too bad either.
Rob,
Where do you get your flat lap silicon discs?
I order them from the Rock Shed.
Are you using Nova wheels on your cabbing machine? I'm looking at buying the Kingsley North Cabber 6". Are the Nova wheels worth the extra $600?
I am using Nova wheels. I haven't used the cheaper wheels so I can't comment on if the Nova wheels are worth an extra $600. I think a whole set of Nova/Galaxy wheels is about $600, so you could always start with the less expensive wheels and then upgrade later. Then you'd know the difference.
hey Rob, do you ever make spheres / balls, or know how to ?
I have not made them, but I know that you use a sphere machine to make them. Before they go into the sphere machine, though, you either have to make a lot of cuts (I think it's 28) on a saw. Rather than using a saw, you can also use a diamond core bit to drill the preform sphere. It only takes a few cuts with a core bit. It takes a lot of time and equipment to make spheres and I just don't want spheres that bad. If I ever started making spheres, I think I'd make them the size of large marbles to cut down on the time and costs a lot.
The opalmills guy, Phil, uses something like that flat lap but it's vertical with magnetic discs. I think you might like that machine.
I have seen magnetic discs, but not vertical. I really like my cab machine. I can't imagine liking a flat lap better, but then again I haven't tried one like you're describing.
I just checked and the machine is called a vertical lapidary wheel by "Wuttke Wheels" .
That's a nice looking machine. They're made in Australia, which is probably why I have never heard of them.
@Michigan Rocks , I think they might be new there too. I didn't know that because Phil from the opalmills has been using one since I first saw his videos.
p.s. I have only been watching these rock tumbler and cabochon cutting videos, including the opals since I got caught up in your videos.
What if you tried tumble halite in acetone? As it turns out, sodium chloride is almost insoluble in acetone. I might try it myself at some point. I believe halite is very soft, so I think I'll try it without any grit.
Let me know how it goes. Be sure to check that acetone won't eat your rubber barrel.
@@MichiganRocks Good point. The barrel I have is a paint bucket lined with rubber on the inside. I'll have to set up the tumbler first, and then I'll try it.
Good luck!
How did you polish the concave part of the heart rock? Was it by using the edge of the cabber wheels?
Yes. I'm not sure if you're talking about the sharp angle at the top of the rock or the gently curved side, but both were done on the cabber wheels. The subtle concave curve on the side is the same diameter as the wheels, so that doesn't have to be done on the edge of the wheels. The top part is done on the edge of the wheel. Here's a video showing the whole process in detail: ua-cam.com/video/Ind9PXxJQSY/v-deo.html
@@MichiganRocks Thank you.
Have you ever thought about a desktop waterjet cutter machine? I mean, once the price comes down?
No, not really.
I love my kingsley north....only can't cut inside of a cresent moon. Handheld dremel...???
They have carving stations for that sort of thing, I have been wanting one for a few years . There are also workbench clamps for fordom type rotary tool hand pieces and water proofing kits that go on burr shanks. Which is essentially two small rubber o rings seals around a plastic disk. I use a deep beverage cap or prescription bottle caps, so the guard goes over the tool a little ways . It is helpful for keeping water and cutting grit out of the handpiece.
Thanks for answering that one, Corey. You have more experience with that sort of thing by the sound of it.
@@MichiganRocks no problem! A flex shaft rotary tool is what I have to use So I try to keep it running best I can.
I have the slant flat lap and can see my girdle line. I love it. It was much more affordable a cabbing machine.
Do you stand behind it, on the high side?
@@MichiganRocks I actually sit in front to the left side of it.
Oh, ok. With lower sides on modern machines, I'm sure it's much easier to see in between the cab and the disc.
Hi Rob
Could you please tell me what grit value/micron the aluminium oxide polish you use, I can get 14000 grit 1 micron or should I get a lower grit I.e 1200 or 1500 grit.
Do you mean in my tumbler? I use aluminum oxide from either Kingsley North or the Rock Shed. I think both of them sell stuff that ranges from 1-3 microns. Both are very reasonably priced too. 1200 grit is more of a pre-polish.
@@MichiganRocks hi rob
So I should get the aluminium oxide 14000 grit 1 micron polish .
@@MichiganRocks sorry yes if you were to polish in the tumbler, but even also in you loto tumbler.
@@markboyen1118 That's what I use in both kinds of tumblers.
@@markboyen1118 Yes, that should be good stuff. Check out the two places I suggested though. You might find that they have better prices. But either way, 14,000 grit should be very good. That's the same as one micron, I think.
Great video & demonstration as usual, thanks!
Went to your link it says the cab machine cost little over $1900.00. But went online it says $1350.00 for the same exact machine? I believe you said its because of the upgraded wheels? So $600 more dollars. Wow! Whats the upgrade on the wheels? They still look like plastic. Am I wrong?
Respectfully, don't know why they are so expensive? Looks like it's just made out of sheet metal. The spindle that holds the sanding wheels looks like its made out of plastic and the motor don't cost that much. Same with the hoses, light & pump, watering valves etc...? They really make a lot of money out of this machine, don't you think? 🤔.
Good questions. I don't know all the answers, but at least some of your assumptions are way off.
The upgraded wheels are very expensive, and I don't know why. I do know that the better wheels are considered the best out there by people who know about these things. They cost $80-$100 each. I haven't used the Kingsley North wheels myself, but I did have cheaper wheels on my previous machine and couldn't get anywhere near the polish that I do with these wheels.
The machine itself is made of stainless steel. The machine I had before this was one that I got used and it was all rusty. I cleaned it up and repainted it, but vowed I'd never have another plain steel machine. The shaft is solid steel and has some milling done to it.
This machine is actually at the lower end of the price range. The Diamond Pacific Genie is a similar machine with the same wheels and costs $2300, and doesn't even have the overhead valves. The Barranca Diamond GP6-6 Cab Maker costs a bit over $6000. I have no idea why. The Cab King is a very popular machine that costs about $50 more than the comparable Kingsley North machine.
Here's my review of this machine if you'd like to learn more about it and why I chose it. ua-cam.com/video/n30aBTu9OkY/v-deo.html
@@MichiganRocks Thanks for explaining. I think I've watched it before, but will watch it again & will pay closer attention to more detail.
Thanks again, Go Blue!
I made a vertical version that's direct drive.
Are you happy with it? You don't have a link to pictures or video of it, do you? I'm just thinking of people who might want to make some thing similar.
@Michigan Rocks I like it just got to find a permanent place that's not next to my fish tank in the basement
No, that would be a bad place for it. I drop rocks sometimes and they fly across the room. Wouldn't be good if a fish tank stopped one of those.
Boa noite seu trabalho é maravilhoso 👏👏👏
Would like to know what are the cabinet machine wheel grits?
The cabbing machine has 80, 220, 280, 600, 1200, and 3000 grit wheels.
Thank you for the information
One additional option for the flat lap is that you can use it to facet stone. With the addition of the faceting jig.
@@jamestexas1290 Yes, that's true.
The Ameritool 8" flat lap (made by Covington) is $459 with no discs. I have one. It works well. It's $700 with a full set of discs, but unless someone is sure they want a full set of discs, it's probably worth paying the cheaper price and buying individual discs.
The Hi-Tech Diamond 8" with four discs is $650. Seems like that would be a pretty basic set of discs that someone brand new to this would want to have. Do you happen to know how the Ameritool flat lap compares to the Hi-Tech Diamond? The price is pretty similar.
@@MichiganRocks They look fundamentally very similar, although shaped differently. I cannot compare the two. I can only vouch for the Ameritool being a good machine. Powerful enough and easy to clean (rounded plastic "bowl" under the disc). I've used mine quite a bit over the past three years with no issues. All flat laps seem inexplicable expensive for what they are (compared to wood working tools, for example). I guess that's because lapidary is a small market with few manufacturers.
I know what you mean. There's not that much to them. It's nice to have your endorsement here for someone who might be looking for one.
can you facet things on a cab machine?
No, I don't think so.
A huge advantage my flat lap has is I can walk away and do something else while it slowly polishes a belt buckle sized flat perfectly flat! Mine has a weighted arm attached to hold the rock engaged against the lapping surface. I can add or subtract weight to increase or decrease the friction between the rock and the lap.
I have seen those before, but the ones I saw were huge. I don't think they had a weighted arm but rather an arm that stopped the slabs from rotating with the wheel. Can you buy something like that new, or is this an old or homemade machine? What's the diameter of the lap?
I have a Gemmaker flat lap [from the 70's ?] that I got in a deal for a Lortone 10 inch slab saw [ from before they started calling it a trim saw ]. The owner just wanted it gone. I found that Hi Tech Diamond 8 inch flat lap disks work perfectly on it. It is a pain to use as to change speed, you have to take the belt off and move it on the stepped pulleys. But it works and you can walk away while it does its thing.
I'd love to see a comparison video between something like what you have compared to a vibrating flat lap. Those vibrating flat laps look like they need a fair amount of babysitting. What you have seems better.
@@MichiganRocks I'm looking at the Diamond Pacific ROTATING DISC FLAT LAP that you can put the grit slurry or magnetic diamond disc right on the grooved cast iron plate. It is hands on but produces excellant results if a flat face is what you want. Thanks
That looks like a beast of a machine. Is there a way to set it up so that you don't have to hold the rock?
Please help not sure what happened. I am a lapidariest and purchased from my normal dealer in Thailand a kilo of lapidary quality Imperial Golden topaz there were some cracks in some but to be able to see inside the stones easier and my wife bought me a really nice rotary tumbler for Christmas. So I went ahead and tumbled them I bought larger size containers of abrasives added two and a half pounds three quarters full of the drum I used the suggested amount of abrasives in each step then I checked them they came along fine until polish stage and I did polish for several days longer then standard because it really wasn't that nice of a Polish I now add borax or 200000 grit zirconium oxide and end up with a nice clear look but haven't used any more of my lapidary quality rough. The reason is after I had cleaned the imperial Golden topaz they came out ok but after the final polishing and it just didn't give a wet look or clear look with the polishing agent suggested in set. But after I took them out I was going to mark them for how I was going to cut them and they had gone from some have a crack here and there and the room doesn't vary in temp or anything like that they had all cracked and crazed to where every stone was unusable why for first three days they looked fine but four days later they were completely cracked and crazed I really didn't mind losing some weight so I could see clearly inside to cut them into preforms for gemstones I thought it would make it easier then me doing a rough random form on lapidary machine and then do a polish so I could see completely inside so I can decide the best way to get the best quality of gems out of the rough. But why would they be fine with a few cracks in some about a third and then four days later they were all cracked and crazed have you heard or encountered that before. It isn't the most expensive rough but definitely not the cheapest I have since only been polishing rocks I plan on for cabs just to cut in half or leave in shapes when finished tumbling. But no lapidary quality rough
I have no idea why that would have happened. I have never worked with Golden topaz either. I'm sorry I can't help you out.
@@MichiganRocks thank you I appreciate the response I have seen in mines where they pull out a amazing crystal then dump water on it and it does this but only other time and it was within a two minutes of taking it out out the rock and worse part was that professor with me had just talked about not doing that for that reason to the miner's but it was a giant peridot
I need mshin
Hmm.... flat laps...are for faceting. Yeah you could get one, 2 or sover sides aka facets well polished, but it dont do curves...
You can make domed cabs with them too. I have also polished a lot of whole rocks on one keeping approximately the natural shape.
What is a pesky rock?.
Do you mean a Petoskey Stone? It's Michigan's state stone. It's a fossilized coral called "hexagonaria".
Hi Rob, its nice to watch ur video, here in France, its bad, on the verge on an explosion, hope not a civil war, our president is nuts
Whoa, that doesn't sound good.
Let's see. $100 motor, plus $50 of electronics, plus $50 of metal plus $50 of wheels = $1600. Someone explain the math to me. My addition works differently than that. Not buying a cab machine. Math is about the same for the Hi-Tech $600 flat lap....not buying that either.