When NOT To Protect Assets From Nursing Home Costs
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- Опубліковано 1 сер 2024
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The biggest threat to the estates of middle class Americans in 2020 and beyond is the threat that they will lose their home and life savings if they get sick and reside in a nursing home facility.
Some people want to protect their land, their home, but they are not willing to do what they need to do to protect their IRAs. It's tough to protect the funds in your IRA because, if you live in a state where the IRA is a countable resource, you must remove the funds from the IRA, pay the appropriate income tax, and then move those after-tax proceeds out of your name in order to protect them and start the five year lookback period.
For example, an individual with a $1 million IRA, who only plans to take their Required Minimum Distributions each year starting at age 72, will likely never qualify for Medicaid. They will never have less than $2,000 of countable resources.
This post is for informational purposes only and does not provide legal advice. Please do not act or refrain from acting based on anything you read on this site. Using this site or communicating with Rabalais Estate Planning, LLC, through this site does not form an attorney/client relationship.
Paul Rabalais
Estate Planning Attorney
www.RabalaisEstatePlanning.com
Phone: (225) 329-2450
Had an interesting case in my family, mom came down with Dementia, a granddaughter said she would move in and take care of her (which should have been a red flag since this granddaughter was, lets say, less than responsible). To make a long story short, the grand daughter cleaned out her bank accounts (to the tune of about $90,000) then met a guy and took off to Alabama, without telling anybody. Didn't find out until social services called one day saying the police found mom wandering the streets at night. Needless to say she needed full time care, problem is Medicare wants the $90,000 (that I'm guessing has long been squandered away) so it's a bit of a mess to say the least.
So we are all SCREWED!!
This kept me thinking with two options:
Staying with one of our children if it allows and pay them with the cares intsead of paying to the long term care facility.
There is an international 5-star care resorts in Chiang Mai, Northern Thailand with an average of $1,500 per person. They will provide a personal care taker for you with 1/1 care 24/7 , three meals a day with a daily menue to select from, and your private villa overlooking the mountain. Also, they take you out once a week to go sightseeing. A peace!
Thanks for the info! Never thought outside the box.
KHMER MINSOTA - do you have to give up US citizenship to establish residence there?
@@DLY0898 No. You don't. If you want more details about this, I can provide you with the information in Thailand.
@@KhmerMinnesnowta I’ll definitely follow up with you, if this becomes a serious option for us!
Wow! Your videos are so helpful... We are working with a lawyer who is drafting a will for my husband and i and i am learning a lot from you and will be making some changes. Thank you!
Wonderful!
Good information to think about! Thanks!
Just discovered your videos sir and they are very well done and quite helpful. Thanks!!
Appreciate the issues you cover in your lectures.
From the nursing homes I’ve visited you don’t want to ever be in one paid for by Medicaid! Tim
So what else would you recommend to a hard working middle class person with no other option?
@@anitagurns9480 family would be my preference.
@@anitagurns9480 Family or a group home. I looked at several group homes for a family member and it was a much better environment than a nursing home. They usually only had five patients that they cared for. This was in California.
Great stuff! However, I recently heard that the lookback time period is now 10 years
As always, GREAT content and presentation. Clear, concise, and direct. Thank You for the excellent helpful videos. You are a WEALTH of helpful information
Having too many assets is a good thing! (And that is why you should consult someone like Paul!) More than 10,000 baby boomers are "retiring" every day and many have come before. I want the best care when I am older because I worked and saved. Nursing homes are usually a one-size-fits-all and the elderly struggle with that. That didn't work for my mom. We sold her house, used all those funds for the last 3 years of her life and are at peace with that decision. No guilt over poor care.
Excellent points C4. Privately provided care will likely always be better than government provided nursing home care.
See and thats what's messed up with the system everything she worked for 50 years gone in 3 and no one sees the problem with that.
@@muradshawar It went to take care of the person that owned the assets........
@@karenkoe7096 How do you figure ?
Why is it that people are happy to pay bills all their life (well not happy, but they do it) - when it comes to nursing home care, OMG, someone else should pay for ME to be taken care of. If you have assets, use them to pay for YOUR care.
Well I suppose the logic would be that the people who have assets have likely paid through the nose their entire lives for programs that they likely didn't qualify for. So when one comes along that they can actually use to get some "value" for their money paid into taxes they want to take advantage of it.
The difference is when you are healthy or somewhat healthy you don't mind paying for services. But, when you are shitting in your pants and can't even wipe your own ass and are being charged 10K a month to live like a carrot, that is not living.
Nursing home in The US is way too expensive for us middle income people who pay all our taxes.
Too many new immigrants who gave away their assets to their children in advance .
@@alicechung4387 …also many hide their income and never pay takes
@@Mantae123 Welfare programs are there for the poor. If you were poor or became poor you would eligiable. This is white collar welfare fraud.
I appreciate the information in your videos. In this example of the client did not want to put his IRA in the trust would be helpful for you to tell us what can he do if he include his IRA in the trust
I feel the same way he went over that most important issue to fast! With no solution?
Thanks! Makes me feel even better about roth conversions!
i realize I'm quite off topic but do anybody know of a good place to stream new series online?
You have to know what the estate is first, before you try to protect it ! It can be difficult, when you have not been told.. anything.
I've been enjoying your videos, but I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one. If one has an asset with both market and sentimental value, it absolutely makes sense to protect that asset and allow other assets to be utilized to pay for one's long-term care.
We are facing figuring out my mother and how to protect her assets. She doesn’t have much-a house, a car, an account with money for her funeral, savings and checking account. But she is 84 and on dialysis. She wants to make sure we are able to take care of all her things easily when she is gone. Assuming a living trust is the way to go??? I’m on the will-not on her house deed because she would lose homestead exemption in the state of GA.
Spend the money and have an estate planning attorney in GA guide you through. This is too important to second guess both for your mother and you.
I need to talk to a financial planner in Colorado. Can you recommend one.
Your video hit home. My wife has Dementia and trying to figure out the best way to go.
A lot of states have homesteading laws. If you declare your house a homestead it becomes exempt from being seized for debts. Does this apply to Medicaid also? I homesteaded mine many years ago. Supposedly the only thing I can loose it for is non payment of taxes.
Subscribed and smashed!🤑👍
I suggest doing what's honest
Tell it to all the illegals flooding over the border in my state with their 5 kids comming to get medi cal welfare free education etc
I’m in CO and have been binge watching your videos. Thank you for taking your time to create them. So, what would you have discussed with Larry if he had decided not to continue taking minimum distributions. Is there a way to protect the funds in an IRA in advance?
As an RICP, Larry needs to work with a qualified advisor like me along with his estate attorney to develop a PLAN. Look up rule 72T and ask yourself...”did I know this before Tim Ehlers RICP told me?” If the answer is no, then you need to ask what else you don’t know. This is a huge issue. Too many people have the illusion of knowledge and control. And, there are too many people without credentials calling themselves Advisors.
yes! It's called Roth Conversions. Best time to do it is between the time you retire and the time you start collecting Social Security.
Nursing home expenses are medical expenses, so he may not have to pay taxes on those IRA distributions.
thank you for telling your customers that. if they need nursing home care, they will need to pay for it. hiding your assets is fraud
And giving free healthcare and long-term care to people that didn't pay in is also wrong
Need more money for all the illegal immigrants. The Biden administration is considering issuing payments to immigrant families that were separated at the southern border under the Trump administration around $450,000 a person in compensation ( So save more so the government can take it from you and give it to the illegal immigrants. Lets Go Brandon
@@gski546 absolutely. i would say 450 isn't enough. give those families even more. Fuck 45. or pardon me, Let's go 45! because a lot of you apparently think he's not fired yet
@@gski546 I know liberals are always generous with your money, and when your broke the liberals just print more money. 30% of all the us currency in circulation has been added in the last 10 months. Now we have this thing called inflation...
@@gski546 No one has given anyone anything.
This is great information, but how would you advise a person in their thirties? Scenario: Man in thirties, very sick, has a wife and two children. The biggest asset is a home. Can the wife/mother stay in the home? Can she move states and still keep the equity?
I have a lot to worry about but the least of my worries is having a million dollars in an IRA!
My elderly parent receives about $3400/mo from pension, Social Security, and Required Minimum Distribution. Is he a person who should NOT bother setting up an Irrevocable Trust for nursing home protection?
I would think not. The SS will go to pay for the nursing home. Minus $60, or so, for personal expenses. The other income would go as well.
Great videos. I'm a Louisiana but live in Alabama and still find your videos very helpful. Geaux Tigers (season tix holder since 2002).
😎 What a season it was! 🐅. Thanks for the comment!
Spousal needs trust shielded from medicare?
Great information, thanks. So., is the maximum income to qualify for Meficaid $2000 per month ?
What about income limitations to qualify for Medi-caid??
I've taken care of this property for 20 plus years so I'm also filing ADVERSE POSSESSION as well as already doing my 2 years plus of my mom living on MY property or which I PAY TAXES ON....
My parents have 40k in savings and a house worth 80k. My Mom is 70 and will be in need of more care soon. Would they be good candidates for Medicaid and not protecting assets?
In order to qualify for Medicaid, they cannot have more than $2000 in the bank and no assets other than their home and a car. Medicaid is for poor people not people with 40,000 in savings.
I thought the IRA is not considered and asset. So if the nursing home cost 14k month then his total bill for care is 168k per year so how des that work, he only has 40k income per year... so how does that work?
Ok but why would someone with decent assets and savings be expecting others (tax payers) to pay for your care. How about pay your own way in life, given that you can afford it.
My thoughts exactly, I’ve been telling my hubby that my 403b is for our care
@@scota73 I commend you 👍🏼
That’s what my 403b is for too! I remind him when he thinks we have money to blow lol
Tell it to all the illegal aliens in my state with all their kids getting everything for free! Let’s go Brandon!
If you can direct me to another video that will be great. Or video content in the future. My mother wants to put me on the deed of her second house. She has 3 houses. My brother is in one dead and my cousin is in another deed, because at the time I wanted to buy my first house. Now that i have my house she wants me to be on the deed so the house can be insure that it comes to me and her 6 grand kids. I am on the fence because I wasnt to buy real estate in the future. She is current in all jer homes and I trust her but the home is a big responsibility even though I am not on the lender payment. I would like to know pros and cons. Is it a good idea to be on the deed at age of 35. We are responsible with our money but you never know how life takes you and I don't want to burden my mother or my mother burden us. I know her intentions is in good will.
I once heard of a widow who put her primary residence in her son's name. The idea was she would live there until she died. The son was married, but died before his mom. So the widow Mom was a prisoner in her own home, she couldn't sell or anything. I don't know how it ended up.
If I take out $100,000 out of my IRA to pay for $100,000 worth of Nursing Home fees, will I also have to pay income taxes on the $100,000 that I used from my IRA?
What age is a good age to finally put your home in your kids names?
If the house has been willed out since 2013 can medicaid come after it?
Woohoo I have nothing .. Nothing to protect nothing to worry about. No money for the government to worry about. No iras no savings ..
Wow! No worries.
@@Kelly-ri9xv not great .. Had some terrible financial blows. But I have nothing to take ..
I plan to go hiking in grizzly country in a meat suit.
I needed that laugh today, thanks
that's freaking funny. dude I am cracking up.
Make sure it is well tenderized!!!
In another video from a different lawyer they said the IRA income will just count as income and not part of assets for qualifying so then do an income trust to qualify and get the income low enough (afterwards the income trust money goes to government) but not sure what happens to the rest of the IRA upon death. Too confusing all these conflicting opinions on UA-cam
Very nice video very informative, but wish you could do a video on how to convince a 75+ year old brick wall to start the 5 year process. Every 75+ year old brick wall that I’ve spoken to in the recent past, 2 very strong walls, have all said the same thing, “no I’m not doing this cuz you’ll steal this out from underneath me” really heartbreaking stuff. So now just gonna let the chips fall wherever and if estate goes to Medicare?? Oh well, I tried!
Question. If I have a joint checking account with my mother and she goes to a nursing home am I required to give my half to the nursing home?
You should be ok. The facility should only look at what is her assets. She will “spend down” what is hers and then can apply for Medicaid. You may want to consult a proper attorney and/or tax preparer to help you delineate what is yours and what is hers. It will save the hassle if/when she does need to go to a facility.
@@1packatak Thanks for the reply. I was told by one of those firms that walks you thru it that the nursing home takes it all.
Yes, it's my experience in dealing with the state that they will take it all. They probably have a procedure to get half of it back after they've already taken it. I would move the money to a different account. If you try to take her name off of the account, that could be concealing assets...... The logic with taking all the money in the account, everybody on the account has access to all the money, so the state will take all the money she has access to.
If you want to separate the funds, then start taking money out of that account slowly and put it in another account in your name only. Start a separation process soon, because if your mother's name is on it also, its her account.
If you don’t have an IRA, but only live on your Social Security income, wouldn’t it make sense to put your share of a house in your children’s name, or perhaps in some sort of trust? The only problem is if your children live in other states than the one you live in, you could lose your Homestead Deductions - that means your home taxes will go up.
Yes, the taxes would go up, but if the home is paid off, then all you have is your taxes to pay and it's well worth the change to get it out of her name. Remember she's only got five years if she dies before then, then they'll still take the house if she was in a nursing home at all to pay them back
I will be calling you soon. I have (my wife & I) a 457, 401K & savings, which she will need if I die first.
What about my pension if I die my wife who received the pension for the rest of her life. So my question is if I end up in the nursing home And my wife keep part of the pension so she can pay Rent And pay the bills My wife only works part time Show the pension belongs to my wife also.
That is a good question, if my hubby dies I’m supposed to get a portion of his pension until I pass away, will I still get this if he has to go on Medicaid?
@@bakokat6982 “A pension is considered countable income for Medicaid purposes. ... The community spouse's own separate income is taken into account in determining whether they are entitled to keep any of the patient's income, and if so, the amount they may keep. Medicaid rules regarding pensions and other income are complicated.” - Elder Law Firm of Clements & Wallace. Does this give you an idea of who you should be talking to about this (hint: not me, and not other people in YT comments threads)?
Great information, thank you! I have about $200k savings in an irrevocable trust going into retirement that I will use to supplement my SSA, so thinking I should put my home worth $200k into an irrevocable. If I have to spend down savings, home will still be there to distribute to my children. Thoughts?
I’d like to know too
So, we work & pay taxes all our lives to cover ssi & medicaid. At the end of our lives, we don't get medicaid unless we expose to taking everything we ever worked for, even though we already paid taxes for 40 -50 years to pay for the medicaid, and what happens to the overage of ssi funding paid by people who die before they reach 62 or those who die before their ssi reaches break even?
It stays in the system to pay someone else
Sickening to think about.
Don't confuse SSI/Medicaid paid through general taxes with SS/Medicare paid directly into them.
Medicaid is for the poor, Medicare is for all over age 65
@@scota73 Generally so, but Medicare can come with SS disability at any age. And the poor over 65 can be eligible for Medicaid. And Medicaid will pay for nursing homes.
My parents struggled all their lives to build assets.
My mother sold their property and most of their possessions after my father's death.
Twenty Five years later, when she needed to be in a care home, all the money was gone in 2 months!
What happened then? Thanks!
@@rose8662 Her care is being covered by Medicaid.
@@ithacacomments4811 Thanks so much for your response!
And this is how it is suppose to work. Medicaid is suppose to be there for those who cannot afford their own care, not for those hiding million dollar assets so their kids can inherit wealth.
@Cathy Berry Sorry to tell you but even if she held the property, they would have put a lien on the property for the amount of money they spent through Medicaid so likely would have owned it in the end anyways. IF you have not provided for long term care, you do not get to pass anything on to the next generation. That is our system that most folks do not understand. If they did it might change but it has not yet. Medicaid patients are only allowed to have a very small nest egg. A single person it is like two thousand dollars total. Bank accounts, jewelry, life insurance, property. Add it all up and it has to be less than that. Only things exempt are a wedding ring and one car. They won't throw you out of the house as a spouse, but you cannot sell it without paying them off first. Once both die, they execute the lien and take it. Children have no claim. Life insurance up to cost of burial can be put in trust with funeral home to avoid counting as asset but most do not know that until too late.
i thought that if the ira is in repayment status it is not a countable asset for Medicaid ?
But it's countable as income. As I understand it, a trad IRA/401K is in payout status once you're getting RMDs -- it's counted as income, and that can be counted for medicaid qualification; a roth version of either doesn't require RMDs, so it's never in "payout status" -- however, the total amount can be counted as an asset. I think the gist here is you need to create a trust early on, before that 5-year lookback period, so you can place your assets in that trust for protection. However, in fictional Larry's case, he had traditional accounts that would require him paying taxes before he could do that. That's my understanding anyway. (Wish this very well-informed and personable YT presenter would START with the basic facts about what he's covering, and THEN go into the detailed examples. Kinda like a textbook that has a recap first, then all the text so you have a basic roadmap and know what to focus on before delving in deeper.)
Why can’t we just START with an explanation that assets are subject to the 5-year lookback?
I wondered why he didn't discuss a lookback. I thought I had heard it was seven years now, but I could be wrong. No real useful advice about protecting your assets in the video.
@@lindawade9647 He’s got a bunch of other videos, and the only thing he talks about that both will / won’t protect from lookback is an irrevocable trust. (An irrevocable trust WILL protect assets if it’s been in force over 5 years; if not, it WON’T.) I don’t really know whether the lookback is pro-rated in such a case…
@@mencken8 Thank you.
@Cathy Berry I think you can have a lawyer as trustee of an irrevocable trust, but that might vary from state to state. In addition, a lawyer is still human. We had a case here in the news a while back about a lawyer who cleaned out some elderly person’s estate.
Is a whole life insurance policy protected if nursing home is needed?
Whole life insurance is a RIP off.
@@johnedmunds1380 That isn't her question.
You're asking for a point of law from UA-cam University Law School.
What if Im on disability and make 1800 a month and have to go in a nursing home would I have to go in a bad one
Hey. I was a manager in long term care for around 30 years. There are both good and bad nursing homes that accept medicaid. The nicer the area usually the nicer the nursing homes. Be aware that the quality of care at these homes may fluctuate if there are changes in management or ownership. Good Luck.
Question I thought pre tax IRA and 401K are not counted as countable assets...am I wrong on this? Thanks in advance!
😮😮An elderly relative chose to pay for a nice nursing home instead of Hiding assets. Her choice.
My mom and my dad would put into a nursing home Long timeShare in my mom had dementia she was supposed to Get reverse mortgage on the house because of her dementiaHe did it the wrong way. He put on Reverse mortgage and ask for 200000 That money was supposed to go to Insurance of the house but she spent in one year. Make the launch story short 2 of her kids have a development disability we were able to keep the moneyDidn't have to give All the money to medicare My brother went to the lawyer Add to we feel out all the paperwork medicare syud you only have to pay for one month for my mom's day At the nursing home. I was allowed to keep 16000 in my other brother has a mind of a four-year-old he was allowed to keep 16000 But the other 16000 was for my mom and all her needs Most people don't know along if you have someone that has a disabilityThey are allowed to keep part of the money as long as you fill the paperwork properly and show proof of the disability.
That was very confusing. I hope all works out, though.
This is a racket. You work hard and are penalized and people who didn’t plan for the future get free care
👍👵
I think when people think of their Golden years, they forget to include one very important aspect, and that is making sure they take care of themselves before, during and afterward so that their final years aren’t spent in a nursing home. Exercise every day and keep your weight down. Stay away from fried and fatty foods. If you come from a family that Alzheimer’s is prevalent, their are strains of marijuana that keep that at bay.
Avoid all sugars (over 100 types), processed products with fructose, processed seed oils, fake fats like margarine, shortening, fake oil olive, artificial colour, gluten free, gluten, pop with sugar, grains (inflammatory),
processed sauces, mixed condiments; they all cause inflammation, and increase risk of all chronic illness.
Avoid smoking, nearly all alcohol, being sedentary, excess caffeine, street drugs, unnecessary medications.
Get proper sleep, eat unprocessed, quality protein, non-starchy vegetables, drink water, walk, laugh, hug loved ones, read/learn, mediate/relaxed deep breathing.
Thanks for the marijuana info. When should I start taking it?
@@conniemcmurray5146 is this true?
@@marlenegold280 I need to try Gluten free (non flour-based) Carbs: Bread, English Muffins/Crumpets, Bagels, Rice (White, Brown, Black, (Thai) Jasmine, Basmati).
Ha ha ha I did all of that and more! Being raised on a coastal inland avocado orchard, eating nothing but clean organic foods all my life,before it was even popular!! I was so fit an healthy, surfed hiked an biked, even my job of 27 years as a letter carrier was active! I got cancer
Can husband use my 401K for his own care home expense ?
If so, can I divorce him ?
I don't know how Medicaid looks at your retirement assets, but I believe divorce may be a solution to saving some assets in some situations.
You could just take care of him.
If I take care of him , he may exhausted my resources. There might not be Nothing left for me for my old age .
I have helped my spouse for year's.
I just want my only child to inherit my hard 35 working years saved asset.
My son can use all the help I can offer. I am selling one property to help my Alzheimer's spouse.
I am not thinking of myself. If I should get alzheimer later on, I will choose assisted suicide.
@@alexlewis8143
I have been doing that for the past 19 years. Now, I want to save my assets for my only son who need my help. I can't afford 6，000 a mouth for how many years? .......
What happened to the old western days when you put the elderly in a rocking chair wrapped with a quilt on the porch and you would check on them in the morning (with fingers crossed)?
LOL that method does not generate profit for corporations
Can my husband spend my 401K from my employee ?
Leave everything to your cat , and never trust any lawyer .
Nursing home 👌🏽
Old age solution: avoid nursing homes, and private nurses and the like, like the plague. Remarry a developing country foreigner who's honest (good luck), or, have kids who care (good luck) to watch over you in your old age. Good luck!
Good luck!😂😂so true.
Good luck. My daughter already told me she is not taking care of me.
Another words, you are really on your own. Counting on a young spouse, kids will be guaranteed disaster.
@@LWRC Depends on the culture. Overseas, outside the USA, old folks are not shipped to an old folks home.
@@raylopez99 :
I wish when the time comes, easy way to end this life. Anyone knows how?
Vaccinate
Dr Kavorkian remember him Oregon has assisted programs don’t know in other ststes
Just become an illegal you'll be ok !)
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If you have the ability to pay, you have a moral obligation to pay. Anything else is just theft. How would you like it if someone owed you money and used legal means to not pay?
Not everyone is going to have a stroke, I know you don't mean to but it sounds like you are making it inevitable.
But if your estate planning is reliant on assured sudden death...how wrong headed is that?
in absolute total agreement with you. I saw what happened with my parents and you just never know what is around the corner. I worried as much as anyone
You have to think hard about your future when you get to the point where you can no longer wipe your own butt. I would throw myself in front of a train before getting put in a nursing home.
I feel the same way. But, what if you have a stroke, now what? When you can't even walk to the train, or call a cab to take you to the train.
@@Norm475 Always keep a gun at bedside and hopefully you will be able to use your right side enough to use the weapon. Or keep a pack of meds that will do the trick. This is a very extreme scenario. Only if absolutely necesssary.
@@bengaljam4550 I have a gun by my bedside. The problem is if I use a gun all of the antigun pricks use that for more gun control. Also, I would not want that mess in my own house or my rental for others to clean up and it isn't fair to the landlord or my family that would have to clean the mess and then try and sell the house. Drugs are fine if you have a stash.
@@Norm475 Lay on mattress with blankets over your head. Blood would seep into mattress and splatter contained by blankets. Easy cleanup with just mattress and blankets to be discarded. This is only extreme conditions to avoid the inevitable of being sent to a nursing home long term for the rest of my life unable to take care of my self. Last phone call would probably be quick call to 911 letting them know to pick up body.
@@bengaljam4550 I think I will try that. I will let you know how it turns out.
You took 10 minutes of repeating yourself to explain a simple concept that could be explained in 60 seconds. I'm not subscribing.
I guess as an attorney, you usually charge by the hour, so you get used to being kinda wordy. ;-) He appeals to almost 40K people, which is great for him! But I agree, this is not my style of presentation. I get bogged down and impatient for the actual bottom line. Still, nice of him to take the time and effort, so I don't want to be negative.
Keen,
Don’t listen!
And the concerning lack of mention of the ethics (make the taxpayers pay your bills) or long term care insurance. This guy is monetized and is looking for likes and for some of his viewers to hire him. I'm no better -- I, too, want all the money I can get. I just don't try to "protect" my funds from the grocery store, car dealers, strippers, or nursing homes.