Are Fel-Pro Gaskets Better on a Subaru Engine? Boxer Tech - Episode 2
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- Опубліковано 21 лют 2017
- In this video, I show you why it is important to choose the correct head gasket for your engine. Always follow what the manufacturer recommends, or you could be finding yourself redoing work that you don't want to do again.
Products used in this video:
Fel-Pro 26167PT Cylinder Head Gasket: amzn.to/2wcTTxM
Also visit my website for more quality content, factory service manual links, technical information, and my build threads at www.boxertechgarage.com
You can also support my channel by liking the video, subscribing, as becoming a patreon sponsor: / boxertech
Link to full article about head gaskets and why they fail and where to get discounted gaskets: boxertechgarage.com/2018/03/1... - Авто та транспорт
Never mind they had the same one you showed in the video in different stores thanks!
I had these put in my Subaru Forester about 3.5 years ago. They are great!!!!!! Saved my vehicle.
Are they still doing well ? There’s some on Reddit thst say they are junk then others who love them
Didn't work out for me
6 YEARS NOW AND NO ISSUES@@arod8596
@@arod8596 They have now been in my Subaru Forester for 6 years this month. No issues. Holding like a brick wall.
There is still a coating on the permatorque MLS. Other than that, I agree with you that the permatorque is the best
EJ22 and EJ18 use a composite gasket. Don't use a composite for EJ25 any version. There is not enough surface area left on the EJ25 for the gasket to seal and secure. This video is good advice.
Sorry I’m new to fixing cars. Where do you find the EJ number on your Subaru? I have a 05 Impreza Outback Sport
You have some variation of the EJ25. Most likely an EJ253 SOHC. The EJ18 and EJ22 were discontinued in 2001, iirc. @@legitballin1986
approximately 1996-2012/2014. EJ engines, naturally aspirated, non-turbo, had the gasket issue. they were a single layer, graphite coated gasket that failed. if you got to Subaru to buy new gaskets, it's still the old single layer graphite coated gasket. the turbos of that era had a mutli-layer head gasket.
So Subaru fixed the issue in 2015? I have a 2018 Forester and am worried about the head gaskets. Am I good since it's a 2018?
just pulled a pair of the Fel Pro gaskets out of my EJ25, and they failed in the exact way the OEM coated head gaskets failed. The blue coating came off. I'm having the heads milled (they now have grooves from the fire rings) and going with a set of Subaru turbo MLS gaskets.
Hopefully these last for more than 5 years/25k miles.
Re-use the head bolts. It's ok. Done all the time by the dealer. And by me. No problems ever.
Just have to use a different torque method but they will work just fine. New head bolts require a torque method which allows for stretching of the new bolts.
I've read up to 6 re-uses can be feasible. That's way more than most people would ever need if you're keeping it pretty stock.
@@richardmiller3808 exactly, two uses is the max you will get out of them, and if you are really taking care of it I wouldn’t ever re use bolts. that are literally specified as yield bolts meaning they are stretched on purpose as part of the factory torque sequence. Therefore the bolts will literally be longer then they are supposed to be be with less strength, you can guess where the problems arise when you cut corners like that on built cars. This is the type of shit that makes everyone think all mechanics and car enthusiasts are hack job clowns.
True, I’ve read many times about how re-using head bolts is ok. I just went with with ARP racing studs. Expensive, but made to be re-used multiple times, excellent design
Can i ask why you would recommend the fel-pro? When all you have to do is use the turbo gaskets in pkace of the non turbo. The ej turbo gaskets had no issues. I always use the turbo gaskets not any other.
So there is no coating on the fel-pro gasket ? Asking because the are blue.
I notice one design failure in the engine. There are not enough head bolts around the cylinder. This produces a wavy head. Would have to be a hg that can deform and have opening cladding. So I'm not sure that any gasket design is a cure. Depending on where the leak is, only some stop leak could be the answer. Yes, to me there should be six bolts surrounding the cylinder, not 4. With 4 there is a huge gap from one to the other.
Just had the Fel Pro Perma Torque installed in my Subaru Forester. However I have to say that the Subaru gaskets that came off my Forester were not multi layered. They were both single layered junk. I saw them with my own eyes today. Subaru replaced them about 6 years ago and they just recently failed again. I like these triple layered Fel pro's much better and so does my mechanic.
Joe Dubiel what year your Subaru?
The updated OE gasket for all EJ25x motors is multi layered steel. 2006.5 was the transition year at the factory, though dealer stock, even today, has the only single layer steel gaskets. If the gaskets were done 6 years ago, it's a good chance the dealer did 2 things wrong: 1. Used new old stock gaskets and 2. Used the wiz-wheel method of resurfacing the heads. Those 2 things are why it failed again 6 years later. The MLS Fel-Pro and Six Star are the way to go.
@alelx jines Good advice! My Forester is holding up beautifully since I installed the Felpro MLS ones.
alelx jines 😩. I didn’t realize the 2011 STILL had the problem ☹️. I bought my girlfriend a 2011 thinking it was safe with the newer engine.
@@BoxerTechGarage What is the correct way to surface the heads - besides wiz-wheel? I'm very new to this.
very good video!
I used the Subaru OEM MLS turbo head gasket with no coating. After 15,000 miles there is absolutely no leak at all. It is also extremely important to have the heads surface if you want to keep it leak for for a long time.
Those are the only gaskets that will fix the issue. 👍🏻
100 percent correct fel-pro ive seen leak.
@@jeffreyheinzelmanjr3317 After 32k miles, still no leaks with Subaru MLS gaskets
I always use 6-star Head gaskets. They are a little pricey, but the most stout for EJ engines. I also avoid copper sealing spray. Subies have had HG issues since the EA era
Philip Danz I usually recommend Fel-Pro for budget builds. Six star gaskets are also top quality and I use those for my frankenmotors and turbo engines
Boxer Tech As long as it works it’s a good deal. Nice informative video 👍🏻
No subies never had hg issues the ej253 non turbo had hg issues. Only the ej253. Please dont spread that none sense. No disrespect.
@@jeffreyheinzelmanjr3317 nonsense? EA63 and EJ25D - 96-99 EJ25D is the worst for internal leaks
Can you get the Felpro for a 2005 with the single overhead cam 2.5?
I just bought a 2003 Baja with bad head gaskets. To fix, I bought turbo head gaskets MLS from 2006 part number 11044AA642. Are these turbo gaskets going to be a permanent fix from your experience? Thank you.
Same gasket I just ordered for mine
If it matters to anyone... Fel-Pro valve cover gaskets/plug galleys. So far no leaks or oil on plugs... last checked at 15k miles. 07 Impreza 2.5i application
I've got the 07 2.5i like you, have you done the head gaskets, if so what brand did you use and are they going strong?
@@nicholascortez6989 I actually haven't had any coolant issues since I've owned the car from 58k other than replacing the radiator (cracked along top plastic). I've flushed and refilled twice using subaru coolant and conditioner. 145k miles so I know I'm living on borrowed time but I'm planning on getting combustion leak detector fluid kit and if I keep the car I'll be using these new multi layer gaskets or at least Subaru brand STI ones and new head bolts OR a used 50k EJ253 is about $1500 shipped depending on labor costs
can't find anything related to this on your website, looks like you redesigned it somewhat recently.
Suggestions?
I have a 2009 Impreza that is making an ungodly noise, so I picked up an 03 Forester to hold me over until I can figure out what I have going on as I'm seriously considering tearing apart the motor and rebuilding it once I have a better idea on what exactly failed. I've been told everything from rod knock to busted rings so I want to tear it apart and see what is going on in there.
Anyway, the Fel-Pro Hs26170Pt1 Kit i'm looking at picking up looks like it has this gasket so glad to hear they are supposed to be an evolutionary step for this engine's gasket.
Steven DeZalia Yeah my host suffered a crash on their server and I lost all of my data on the backup and primary drive. I'm in the process of uploading everything again. If there is anything that I reference that you cannot find, please reach out to me either here or DM me on Instagram and I will upload the information. I love the Forester body style. Much luck to you on your engine teardown and if I can help with anything, let me know
A used Subaru pre-2012 with no Head gasket symptoms
Is it wise to replace the gasket as a preemptive measure? or wait for failure?
It depends on a couple factors: mileage and prior maintenance. A well maintained cooling system will usually prolong the replacement of the gaskets. The higher the mileage, the more prone it is to failure but if it is not showing signs of failure, it is best to check your oil at every fill up to make sure there's no cross contamination and also watch for drips of coolant, especially after driving for an extended period of time. Once the gaskets are replaced, following Subarus recommended service interval and procedure will ensure the gaskets never need to be replaced again.
Is the 2012-2017 STI afected by this problem?
The engine of this Impreza is the EJ257
Not typically unless the engine was seriously overheated. Usually the spontaneous failures occur on the NA motors. The turbo motors are only affected if they've been overheated in which case you'll be getting the heads milled.
the like to Amazon dose that include two head gaskets or just one and you need to order two?
You will need to order two
I can't get to your site. Would you mind sending me a link to purchase the Felpro MLS Headgaskets for the price you mentioned. Thank you.
Here's the link: boxertechgarage.com/2018/03/19/subaru-head-gasket-failures-explained/
Scroll to the bottom of the article, you'll see 4 links. The pricing shown on my site isn't correct. It's actually lower than what it shows.
ty!
thanks for the video, I just ordered some composites for my 98 outback. guess I'll return them.
So fel pro the way to go? also do you see a need in pressure testing the heads ?
Fel-Pro is certainly the way to go. As far as a pressure test, it certainly doesn't hurt to have that done and provides extra piece of mind, though most machine shops will charge extra for that. If you dont suspect the heads are cracked then you can forego that test. These heads aren't known to crack unless they've been ridiculously overheated. It's better to have the heads decked and have them do a light valve grind.
thanks you so much. Do you mean lapping the valves? why the light valve grind ? Boxer Tech
Cystic to strong Checking visually and if all looks good lapping the valves should do it.
do you need to get the surfaces machined before replacing the gasket?
I always check the head surface before. If it's close to out of spec, I get them surfaced. If there no warpage, I don't bother
Where can I order the good gasket, I’m looking for 2010 Legacy 2.5i
amzn.to/31S2THA
Is that Jay Maegar?
I just bought a 99 Subaru Forester. Was told it only had 89k on it. Well, head gasket failed, and the car overheated. After pulling the heads, I noticed it had Fel-pro head gaskets. The heads were of course, warped. I had them refinished, but the head bolts stripped out while following the prescribed torque procedure. I'm guessing the car has a lot more than 89k miles on it. Trying to decide what to do now., Oh, do you use Permatex Copper seal on your gaskets? Why or why not?
You probably misread inch pounds for foot pounds like I did. Snapped 2 bolts before I realized it
I just popped in the six stars on my 2002 forester. My timing belt broke with only 40k miles (wtf) and destroyed the cylinder heads, so I replaced those with remanufactureds. It actually had the single layer OEM gasket on it previously. How long do you think the six stars last? (Stock motor)
Six star gaskets are manufactured just like the new OE Subaru design is, so they will likely outlast the life you'll have the car. I always tell people that if you replace the single layer OE gaskets with the MLS, they're going to last forever. I've seen EJ motors with factory MLS gaskets with 300k miles and no issues
Boxer Tech Good to hear, thanks
@@BoxerTechGarage Thanks for actually being knowledgeable on this topic and spreading the truth!
@@BoxerTechGarage Six Star is a great gasket as well. There is a subaru Specialist repair shop on the west coast that swears by them. Another good multi layer gasket
What brand do you recommend for my EJ25 turbo forester?
OE, Six Star, or Felpro
in the link description of the fel progasket it comes with one but its not multi layer you need to buy 2?
The links and part numbers I referenced are a multi-layer steel gasket. You need two gaskets for a proper HG job, one for each side of the motor
Boxer Tech thanks im a newbie on boxer engines i didnt fully knew there was two til. 😂👍
Cezar Cortez. One gasket for each pair of cylinders. 2 on each side of the engine.
So did Subaru resolve this head gasket issues? And when? I do have 2001 outback should I expect it
You will have a HG failure. The HG issue wasn't resolved until the FA/FB series engines.
@@MrSubaru1387 what year did FA/FB come in?
@@oldsteamguy depends on model. But 2011-2013 is when they phased in for most all models. 2015 with WRX. 2022 for STi models.
So glad I got the perma-torque
That makes two of us. Put them in my Forester. Working out very well.
Three of us twice for me 99 forester and 06 forester both 2.5 money well spent. Learned the hard way.
@@johnnyblade3335 Mine have been on for over 6 years now and holding up well.
Seems like the Six Star head gaskets have a lot of good reviews for them..
MrAllinclubs six star is what I use , so far so good.
Just bought my sic star life
Fel-Pro are awesome!
What about the 3.0 outback
The 3.0 rarely suffers from HG failures due to it using a far more superior MLS gasket. That's not to say it never happens but the failure rate is something like 10,000:1 or something ridiculously low compared to the EJ25. They fail less than the EJ22 does.
Do they make these for an EJ202?
+Master Damo yes they do. It's the same gasket used in the 02 WRX. You'll want to look for Fel-Pro 26537PT.
Thanks mate, I was trying to find the part number. Cheers
As of now.... I don't have an example of a failed Felpro.... That is good news!
They appear to be great gaskets. Putting some in my 2000 Subaru Forester this week.
I put them in my 2000 Forester. They are holding up well.
@@joedubiel6702 hi, are they still working? How many miles/km has it been since you replaced it?
@@WAncouvOR No issues. Holding like a brick wall. I think about 10,000 miles ago . Lets hope they keep going. :)
@@WAncouvOR 6 years/40 thousand miles
You should reuse those old OE gaskets.
Just brush on a thick coat of latex paint and you will be good to go.
I realize this video is old but if you are viewing this do NOT use felpro mls gasket, the coating on them fails. Use only subaru oem updated mls headgasket and have your heads milled. I have done well over 50 ej25 head gasket jobs. Trust me
copper coat spray works!
Why don't you just use the MLS gaskets from the turbo engine? Those don't fail.
You can use the EJ257 head gaskets. It lowers the compression though as they're thicker to help keep a lower static compression on the turbo motors.
You do realize that you are comparing a New MLS Gasket to a used Compressed MLS Gasket.
Are the fel pros any good so fsr?
Not a single issue that I have experienced with any FelPros we've used in rebuilds. The prep of the heads and block makes the difference.
@@BoxerTechGarage do you have a video on how to prep heads my subaru crapped the bed
What’s the best ones can you use for a 2005 through 2009 outback xt?
I'm growing to like Mahle head gaskets.
Boxer Tech Garage thank you man , and yes because I seen some issues with the fel pro ones to , so if you don’t mind can you send me a link to the ones you use currently and do the make them for models before 2010?
Boxer Tech Garage the mahle ones of course ?
@@Anthony0899 i don't have an exact link but the part number is 55017 for the 05-09
Boxer Tech Garage thanks man and that’s towards the link that you put in the description of the video ?
MLS turbo gasket on 2.5's period!
Part # SUBARU OEM 11044AA642
Mahle or Felpro for an EJ25?
I've been looking at the Mahle new style and I'm curious about their quality compared to Felpro.
Neither. Subaru OE MLS only or you'll be replacing them again.
@@MrSubaru1387 how do you determine which OE mls gasket to use, cause subaru will not recommend one.
@@liketofixit-ei5uz what engine do you have?
My Forester is a 2000
Mine too
SOOOOO it looks screwed either way? I have leaks from new mls gaskets...….. im going with composite
Leaks after using a MLS gasket are usually due to an inferior gasket, contamination of the mating surface, or warpage of the heads and/or block deck. Make sure you check the flatness of the heads and block before resealing the motor with new gaskets.
@@BoxerTechGarage i went with composite gasket and still havent got call its leaking lol
@@BoxerTechGarage i did composite fuk mls been sealed great
did subaru ever fix this head gasket problem on their engines.. what tear or is it still on going problem. I only think the 2.5 had this problem. are the new 2018 better than previous engines. any years when this problem stopp6.
thanks.
Steve Molek The 2.5 was the only engine affected by head gasket failures. As of 2005, there was a much improved head gasket design that went further back to the older models. All of my 2.5's have the Fel-Pro gaskets which are just like the OE improved gasket
Boxer Tech thanks.. I want to buy a new Forrester this spring, so it will be s 2018 model. I just very concerned over this head gasket topic. subaru has a great AWD system, the head gasket seems to be their biggest fault.
I agree 100% with your reply. only the 2.5 had this problem I hesrd this from nany others too. . the 2.0 is fine, but it gets lower gss milage and requires premium fuel.
again thanks for your reply
Steve Molek The FA engines didn't suffer any of the same failures the EJs did. That's not to say they won't, or they'll suffer other failures, because the FA is a baby compared to the EJ, which is going on almost 30 years old. I've heard they very great economy due to direct injection, they're limited by the CVT, which I'm not a fan of
Boxer Tech thank you sir for your info
I'm definitely going to keep researching on this topic.
I'm 50/50 on which way to go
Steve Molek go for the Forester. You're going to be very happy with it. Everyone I know that has one, new or old, absolutely loves it.
The problem is cheap shops that install the cheap head gaskets. They buy the cheaps ones to lower the cost of the repair for the customer, but the repair doesnt last. They dont care, because "Hey I fixed it, thats good enough". Cheap is just that. Cheap. If they just came out with the better gaskets, guess what? Chances are most repairs at Joe's Garage were probably done with El Chepo head gaskets. Enjoy!
This is due to a lack of understanding of the special nature of this engine and due to oversaturation of misinformation. The one that is most affected by it is the consumer. They can't stand over the shoulder of the tech at Bob's Garage and make sure they use the right gasket, because they themselves might not know the difference
@@BoxerTechGarage Which is probably why Subaru owners should seek out a specialized shop if possible. We have two in our town. One I wouldnt take my Grandmothers Subaru to. They hire inexperienced people with average skills in the Subaru field, yes they do work on them often, but...they also install sub par parts. The other,is more of a high performance Subaru shop...but,they use quality parts and yes, expect to pay for that. The first aforementioned is also a Subaru used car Stealership that I have found to be very crooked in their own right. Low balling trade ins so they can turn higher profits on resale is just one of them. Their reputation is drown out by the elite that go there anyways, simply because that business has been there a long time. The fact it has never grown beyond its current size in decades tells me they cherry pick their clients and only deal with deep pockets. I have noticed only Grandmothers, yuppies and upper income people go there for service.
I do most of my own service,after that, I take it to the second shop, specializing in performance,ie better quality parts. OEM is fine, but if Fellpro makes a better quality head gasket, I have no issue.
Subaru updated their hg design so OEM is fine to use.
It’s been updated more than once to try to stop repetitive leaks. It’s inexcusable that they have had so many sealing issues.
The Blue Fel Pro will fail ... Total waste of money ! Have to used the Turbo OE Gasket
Use OEM subaru MLS gasket (turbo models) on non turbo ej251 engines. Stay away from felpro.
DO NOT use blue fel-pro gaskets on any subaru. I have a pile of failed blue fel-pro gaskets at my shop. The coating peels off and leaks just like the originals. Buy oem subaru turbo mls gaskets, they dont have the BS coating and they fit on the non-turbos and never fail. Same gasket for 2.5 DOHC fits 2.5 SOHC. Subaru put shitty gaskets on non turbos knowing that they would leak after 100k miles but put reliable gaskets on turbo motors because they knew the normal gaskets would result in low mileage failures, covered under warranty. Also, the factory torque specs are BS, subaru changed the torque specs many times.....every few yrs says some different torque spec/angle procedure. Go 80 ft lbs with turbo gaskets and you will never have a problem again.
Thanks for your opinion on Fel-Pro gaskets. Unfortunately early Fel-Pro gaskets suffered the same fate as the early OE "updated" gaskets. Fel-Pro, just like subaru, updated their design and has gaskets for the subaru that are on par with the newest gaskets. All my cars use Fel-Pro, all the cars I work on use Fel-Pro, unless the owner specifies to use OE or Sixstar. In my 5 years and countless replacements, not one Fel-Pro gasket has failed. I also skip the first part of the Subaru torque sequence because it's pointless and use the FSM for the torque sequence and the second part. Again, never had any issues with doing it that way
@@BoxerTechGarage , do you replace the head bolts? I've heard from a lot of folks you don't have to but felpro says you are supposed top but they might just be wanting to sell you bolts. Are they TTY? Why wouldn't you have to replace them if they are?
@@downunderyank Rarely do I replace head bolts on NA engines. They're not TTY bolts and the factory service manuals don't even mention replacing the head bolts, even on the WRX and STI. I check the bolts length to make sure they're still within spec. I keep a set on hand just in case any bolts are less than perfect, so I have bolts to check against.
@@BoxerTechGarage I agree. I have the Fel Pro permatorque in my Subaru. Put them in 6 years ago. No issues.
call me in 80k and then talk about how they ”fixed” the problem with the update. 20 years later an the new problem same as the old, just updated. gravity is still the enemy of subaru. just say no to felpro ... and composite.
The very first one I did 5 years ago with these same gaskets is still going strong. It's all about the maintenance that helps them last. Most people neglect the coolant change on the scheduled maintenance. I had a Forester that had 204k on its original gaskets before it failed. The 98 Outback featured on other videos on my channel has 213k on its original gaskets and I'm about to crack it open for the first time.
The Fel-Pros aren't the fix. Only the new Subaru MLS gaskets seal. Gravity isn't the issue. It that was the issue every Subaru and Porsche would blow HGs. The only Subarus with HG issues are the N/A 2.5L. The EJ25D, EJ251, EJ252, and EJ253. The H6s didn't have issues, no other displacement N/A H4 had issues. No turbo 2.0 or 2.5L had issues.
Fel Pro blue head gaskets are absolute trash; the coating flakes off even faster than the OEM versions. Six Star is the only way to go.
My Fel Pro perma torques have been in for 6 years now No issues.
Subaru head bolts are reusable. Save yourself £50