Ancient Greece in the Bronze Age (Minoans, Mycenaean Greeks and more!)
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- Опубліковано 1 чер 2024
- In this episode, we start are journey into the world of ancient Greece and Greek civilization! We'll take a look at the Bronze Age cultures of the Cyclades, the Minoans and the Mycenaean Greeks. Before Athens and Sparta became household names, there was the world of Bronze Age Greece!
Have some fun, check out the quiz below:
www.blumarker.org/bronze-age-...
Sources and Suggested Reading ► bit.ly/3r3SllU
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#greece #greek #ancientgreece
The Greece that was ancient to the ancient Greeks
Haha yeah that's true... the Age of Heroes! Thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it... stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy Alternatively, they're the beta test version of Ancient Greeks. 😁😁
@jorgan Kharn wait wdym?
@@Number1Irishlad He's probably a butthurt turk,just ignore him/her.
@jorgan Kharn Albanian or Pseudomacedonians?lier this two face nation dident exist before middle ages spreading their lies and complex in every video about Greece two face nations with no state the one u till 1912 and the other at 1930 , Espessialy the Albanian s why they speak when their Country is Full o Ancient Greek monuments is a mystery ,
There is something so mystical about the bronze age. I absolutely adore it.
Me too! Haha that's why 80% of the content on this channel deals with it. Thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it... more on the Bronze Age to come, stay safe!
It’s because myths where gods interact with humans all take place during the Bronze Age
Probably because we know so little and what we do know is derived from material objects rather than records. Same with ancient India for me.
@@williambaker1003 For me it has nothing to do with religion or God. It's the fact we know so very little about pretty advanced and giant empires.
Regarding the Minoan language: The oldest language was a pictographic writing system developed around 2000 BCE known as the Cretan hieroglyphs. Another group of signs was identified as Linear A, developed around 1700 BCE. While Cretan hieroglyphs have a pictorial appearance, Linear A has a linear appearance. It has been speculated that both Cretan hieroglyphs and Linear A represent the same language.
Minoan civilization had trade contacts with the advanced Middle Eastern civilizations, with Egypt being the most influential. It is likely that the earliest Minoan writing (Cretan hieroglyphs) was modelled after the Middle Kingdom Egyptian hieroglyphs.
Although superficially indeed similar to Egyptian symbols, Cretan Hieroglyphs are clearly distinct in both form and phonetic value. Yet the biggest difference lies in the underlying system itself. Egyptian Hieroglyphs are part of a complex writing system, where most signs have more than one possible reading, dependent on context (similarly to the Japanese Kanji characters). Signs could have both a phonetic (single consonant or syllable) value or an ideogrammatic (word) reading, but could even be utilized as phonetic complements or logograms (a written character that represents a word or phrase, like in Chinese), “reinforcing” the reading of words they were attached to. As many of these duplicities could only be interpreted by a native speaker of Old Egyptian, this system was very difficult to utilize for speakers of foreign languages. Also, the Egyptian system had over 800 different signs, which is an extremely large inventory of symbols compared to Cretan Hieroglyphs (roughly 85 or so different signs are known). Linear A signs identified ranges from 77 to 85 according to different scholars, suggesting that this was a syllabic writing system.
Minoan scribes might have took the concept of writing from Egypt, creating their own signs and simplifying the system so that it became almost fully phonetic. Such a low number of individual characters is uncharacteristic of the complex writing systems of the ancient Near East, but it is fully compatible with a simple syllabary (reminiscent of the modern Japanese Hiragana or Katakana writing). Thus, some assume that Cretan Hieroglyphs, similarly to all later Aegean writing systems, were already syllabic in nature.
Other scholars see Semitic influences / a relationship to Mesopotamian writings in the Minoan language, but these depend solely on Semitic loanwords, such as “sesame”, a word that appears in both Linear A and B (and also in ENGLISH).
One thing is clear: After the rebuilding of the palatial complexes on Crete (with the advent of the so-called “New Palace Period”) the Hieroglyphic script fell out of regular use. A new script has taken its place, called Linear A. The relationship of Linear A and Hieroglyphics is probably comparable to the relation between Egyptian Hieroglyphic and Hieratic/Demotic script. Current available evidence suggests that the underlying system remained essentially the same; it is the shape of signs that suffered profound change due to graphical simplification.
Linear A was used much more extensively than Hieroglyphs. Hundreds of clay tablets, inscribed vessels, statues, altarstones and even jewelery testifies its daily use. The triumph of Linear A is also striking in a geographical sense: Wherever Cretan traders went, Linear A followed. Perhaps due to the simplicity of the syllabary, it quickly spread to other regions surrounding Crete. While regularly used on many Aegean islands, sporadic finds suggest that it also reached the Greek mainland as well as the island of Cyprus and the Syrian coast.
Hey thanks for stopping by and the info, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
That's an excellent and fascinating synopsis, thank you!
Do you think that Linear A will every be cracked? I wonder if AI could help, but perhaps we are lost without an equivalent of the Rosetta Stone
You have no idea what you are talking about
che lingua parlavano?
@@cheffrey82We can read the sounds of Linear A words and we know the meaning of some of the ideographs. We also know the meaning of some recurrent words, like “deficit” and “total,” and can recognize some place names. The real problem is that most inscriptions are bare lists of basic information, and a lot of words appear only once, so we don’t have enough context to translate them. AI can’t help with that, unfortunately.
Leaving on a cliffhanger. ( Cy calmly walking away in slo-mo as the Mycenaeans empire burns in the background)
That's how I get you guys hooked on history! Haha thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it...stay safe!
Ahahahahaha, nice interpretation of the end here, but I do not feel this is a problem. Cliffhangers are nice
Ancient Greek history? Hell yeah!
Hell yeah baby, a lot of it coming in the next few months! Thanks for stopping by, stay safe!
@Jordan & Jordan There is no macedonian language. You speak Bulgarian and
*MACEDONIA® IS GREECE ONLY*
I’m so early here, much like the minoans
Haha yeah... imagine though if you were there when they were hauling obsidian into the Franchthi Cave! haha thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it...more to come, stay safe!
I vaguely remember hearing that Kaftor, a place mentioned in Egyptian records, may refer to the kingdom of the Minoans or a Minoan city.
Yeah I've heard that too, along with Cyprus and possibly Cilicia for other candidates Kaftor (I think I usually see it spelled with a "C"). I personally don't know much about it though, just heard the name. As always, thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy This might be a whole video, but there's at least three mentions of Caphtor in the Old Testament as well, which can be used as evidence to pin down where it is.
If you really want to look into that, the passages are Deuteronomy 2 23, Amos 9 7 and Jeremiah 47 4. They all seem to refer to the Philistines as originating from Caphtor, so if there's external (non-Biblical) evidence for the origin of the Philistines, then that place has a very strong case to be the location of Caphtor.
@Jordan & Jordan There is no macedonian language. You speak Bulgarian and
*MACEDONIA® IS GREECE ONLY*
Do you mean Keftiu? There’s tomb art with an inscription that identifies a distinctly Minoan-like people as Keftiu.
Great video! Greeks in the Bronze Age were known as the Achaeans. According to Homer and early sources they were also known as Danaans (presumably after the Danaan dynasty) and Argives (after Argos/Argolis, their core area). Egyptian sources mention them as "Tanaju" (Danaans), with Thutmosis III of Egypt receiving messengers of the "Tanaju" king in 1437 BC. Some of their locations mentioned by Egyptians were Mycenae, Kythera, Thebaid, Messenia etc. Hittite sources from late 15th century mention them as "Ahhiya" (Achaea) when Achaean generals made their first intrusions into Anatolia and came in conflict with the Hittites.
After the Bronze Age collapse and during the Dark Ages, name "Achaeans" was gradually replaced with more localized names since a lot of their population centers were fairly isolated and grew independently of each other. Only those Achaeans from their original core area (Argos, Laconia, Messenia) carried on their name as prime identity (and kept struggling with the Dorians throughout Dark and Archaic Ages), as well as those that moved to northern Peloponnese which during Dark Ages became known as Achaea.
However, there many examples of Ionian and Aeolian cities tracing their origins to Achaeans. Only the Dorians seem not to be an offshoot of the Achaeans , as they constantly fought each other for those exact reasons. There was even an example of a Spartan king (which was a Doric city) claiming/acknowledging to the Athenians that he was not Dorian, but an Achaean, because of his Heracleid bloodline.
Haha love the name, so relevant for this video! Yup, correct. Actually you mentioned Ahhiya, I did a video several months back that called "Did Mycenaean Greece and the Hittite Empire ever Interact? The Ahhiyawa Question" that you might find to be interesting:
ua-cam.com/video/yHivtCCY3T4/v-deo.html
I'm going to get more into Homer and what he tells us in future videos. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! More on Greek history to come, stay safe!
Wow. This video is three years old. This video is closer to the ancient Greeks than we are now. I know. Amazing. Great video mate.
Just starting to get into the ancient Greeks after doing an assignment about the battle of Marathon so this was perfect timing! Very interesting, thank you!!
Oh yeah, I'm going to have big video on the Battle of Marathon... can't wait to put that out for all of you! Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy Looking forward to it!
But you are studying 'the Greeks', a totally differant race, culture and mind-set that came a thousand years after they had destroyed the maritime peoples and stolen their lands....
Nice work on summarising Bronze Age Greeks! Really enjoying the series so far. One thing I would really LOVE to see if a video talking about how the various Bronze Age cultures interacted with one another. While we sometimes see snippets on this topic when talking/reading/exploring each culture individually, I think it would be really fascinating and would really help us understand the broader context of the Bronze Age.
From my brief understanding of the topic, and possibly as a starting point, the Bronze Age cultures were actually quite interconnected with one another; stretching from Mycenaeans in present day Greece to the Indus Valley Civilisation in India and Pakistan. And that trade, particularly tin from Afghanistan (tin is needed alongside copper to make bronze), being a major driver.
Yes, that would be a great topic! I have couple of new books that I need to go through... one specifically on the Mycenaean economy and the other on the Aegean economy/trade in general. Those may contain some information about such trade connections... maybe I'll do a podcast about it after going through them. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
greek history has been my all time favorite since I was a kid, i just wish we had more details on the minoans & myceneans like their kings, battles, stories, politics and all that. Great episode , looking forward to the next one, keep up the good job and stay save Cy! 💯
Oh you're in luck then, I'll have a lot more on Greek history coming up! I think I'll do some supplemental podcasts to go into more depth as 13 minutes really doesn't even scratch the surface. Thanks again, stay safe!
It's so fascinating to hear from this time period because we know so little of those civilizations which means that in a way we know little of our own history and that is fascinating in a somewhat scary kind of way
Didn’t Demosthenes write about the Cretans and their impact on law. I am curious how much Minoan government and law influenced the Greeks and in turn us.
Hi, thanks for stopping by. Hmmm, it's possible that some legal traditions may have been brought over to the mainland and passed down, but I personally believe that the Minoans didn't have a real influence on Greek law. My reasoning is that in Demosthenes' time, they didn't have any knowledge of the history of Crete from Minoan times, - what they thought of as history from that age was really legend, for example about King Minos, etc. In addition, they wouldn't have been able to have read what we call Linear A script, since all knowledge of that and Linear B was presumably lost during the Dark Age (probably the next vid I'll do on ancient Greece). It'd be interesting to find evidence of this though. I'm going to do a short program on Demosthenes in the future so I'll read up more on him and see if I can find some mention of Crete. Thanks again, stay safe!
History with Cy I absolutely love your video’s, but I might like the fact that you react to so many comments even more. Even when it’s just to say thanks and stay safe, you react. You’re a true legend for that.
Herodotus and Thucydides might have had some knowledge of the Minoan civilization. They mentioned that King Minos lived 1600 years before their time and he was the first to create a navy. Roughly corresponding to the early Minoan palatial era.
I love the bronze age! 😁😁
My too, as you've probably guessed from the videos on this channel far haha. Thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
This is the same quality of my university courses on ancient Greece, found your channel recently and I've been elated at the quality and quantity of content. Thanks for your time.
As an archeology major, thanks for the videos, these are a great recap before exams.
Hey, glad to hear it! Man, I would have loved to have majored in archaeology and gone on some digs back in school... hope that you're enjoying it and stay safe!
Such a great way to start my day, Thank you Cy, Stay save everybody!! 👍👍👍
Thank you my friend, appreciate it! Haha you're starting your day, I'm just about ending mine! You too, stay safe!
Thanks for adding in the other ancient civilizations in the Aegean. Everyone else, especially professors, always begin with the Minoans. Respectfully...
Oh man, I had more that I wanted to cover but just couldn't due to time. I think I'll save it for a podcast though. Thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it. More to come, stay safe!
Congratulations!
Nice stuff!
Great production quality and great summary of Ancient Greece!
Another great video! Looking forward to more of this series. Thank you Cy!
Thanks my friend, really appreciate it and glad you enjoy Greek history! I'll try to put out a couple vids on the topic out every month since it seems you all are interested in this. Stay safe!
Thank you for this amazing work, your videos are extremely useful :)
Another excellent video! Thank you Cy!
Thank you, glad you enjoyed this! More to come, stay safe!
The Mycenaean gold mask shown at 8:21 is not ordinary mask, the legend goes that it was directly embossed from the face of Agamemnon, king of Mycenae, at his death.
That story was an invention of the archaeologist who discovered it. He’s suspected of having added the moustache to make it look more heroic, too.
@@mrjones2721Quite possible. Greeks are well known for masterfully making up story out of nonsense. Philhellenist science people also involve in this field in a romantic bias.
@@ForceOfUru The archaeologist was German, not Greek.
I love the video. It was very helpful for my test. Thanks a lot.
Such a thorough and detailed video! History with Cy has become my go-to channel for ancient history!
Thanks, really appreciate the kinds words and glad you liked this! More Greek history to come, stay safe!
Nice and clear and interesting summary. Thanks.
Thanks, really appreciate the kinds words and glad you liked this! More Greek history to come, stay safe!
Again loving the scope, themes and content in your videos.
I love that you are creating different chronological "episodes" of Bronze Age / Ancient civs and you are quickly becoming the most comprehensive and consistent UA-camr when it comes to Ancient History.
I love that I can go "hey I wanna see where Ancient Sumeria starts and how it plays out." And find a whole series or jump to the Canaanites or Elamites. And all the videos tie into each other or relate back.
It's like the MCU of Bronze Age History!
Loving your work keep it up.
Well done, I appreciate your narration, thanks!
No, thank YOU for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
This was awesome! !!!
Thanks, really appreciate it, stay safe!
I am liking Cy's videos even before they start :) I immensely love this channel.
Thanks, really appreciate the support! Hope that all is well on your end and stay safe!
Great video!
Thank you, appreciate it! Stay safe!
Thank you so very much Cy! I'm always learning something new. I absolutely adore history ☺️ and its people like you who keep this love burning bright so thank you again 😘
You are so welcome, I'm really glad that you found this useful! More on ancient Greece to come, stay tuned and safe!
Hey thanks for the videos good job hope your subs keep growing
Couldn't have been a better timing for a new video since I like to watch (and re-watch) your videos while drinking the morning coffee. Helps my tired brains to wake up with exciting things to think about so thank you! For me all goes well. For you may all go well.
Thanks, I'm honored that you start your day with these! I sometimes do the same soon after I get up, check UA-cam to see what's new from my favorite creators...kind of allows my mind to wake up before getting to the day's business. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it...more to come, stay safe!
Beautiful as always.
These well researched and superbly edited histories are a gift to the UA-cam historians community.
Hi, thanks again for stopping by, really glad you enjoyed this little change of pace from the usual Near Eastern stuff. Hope all is well on your end, stay safe!
Thanks for the amazing video
My pleasure, thanks for watching!
Thanks man. I've learnt a lot with you and your team
Team? Haha it's just me at the moment, though I think in future I would like to bring in someone to make better visuals. Glad you liked it though, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy only you? Your work is excellent my friend. I enjoy all your videos a lot
YES. Definitely! Thank you, Cy!
No, thank YOU! Stay safe out there!
Very interesting , I have visited Crete and Im in love with the culture and Im so happy I learn many news things by watching such videos. I just hope we might see more info in the future about little practicle details (weapons and food at that time, why not even proven data about ways of life outside of huge wars ) Surely of course everything that happened so many years ago is really tough to study and much harder for all historians compared to (let´s just give a simple example) more recent stuff like the rule Napoleon for ex. Congrats , CY, for trying to go deep into Ancient Greece, :D
Stupendo, meraviglioso! Grazie tante!
GRAZIE! Thanks so much for all of your comment, my Italian always improves when I read them! Hope all is well with you! I hope to be doing some history from both Italy and Serbia in 2021! Stay tuned and be safe!
@@HistorywithCy
Grazie tante per belle parolle. Ogni volta quando trovo le tue lezioni le guatdo volentieri. Sarebbe bello vederti di nuovo. Fatti guardare ogni tanto. Inoltro sempte le tue lezioni a 17 i miei conoscenti, codi' le tue lezioni si ascoltano sia in Italia, sia in Getmania, sia in Serbia.
Devi sapere che proprio Serbia e' piu' importante per la praistoria dell' Europa per la civita' di "Lepenski vir".
Qua sotto mando video per te e i tuoi fan di mia citta' Belgrado dove devi venire una volta. Tanti Americani da New York vengono adesso di vivere in Serbia a Belgrado perche' gli piace tanto.
Tanti saluti,
ua-cam.com/video/04ZUExiH4zI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/2RXl__W3aFY/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Tc-xn0Fn7N8/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Y7fsVa1Ngxo/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/KdIfBXSjA64/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/AFxggmdQ7Q4/v-deo.html
weltreisender.net/serbien-lepenski-vir-9000-jahre-alte-kulturzeugnisse-16190/
Very informative.
Thanks, Glad you liked it!
I've been watching a lot of these kinds of short videos from other publishers -- the quality is not always good but this was excellent, in my opinion. A good overview for the beginner -- lets the facts speak for themselves vs overlaying with loud music and etc. Thank you!
Thanks, glad you're enjoying these. Next one will be on ancient Greece as well, specifically Athens. Hope to release it in a day or two. Thanks again and stay safe!
Great stuff
Thank you, appreciate it, stay safe!
Subscribed!
Always loved the Bronze Age period of Greece!
Thank you and welcome! Another one one ancient Greece (Athens) coming up in a day or two, stay tuned!
@@HistorywithCy You're on my notifications!
would love more on these Greek colonies in additional videos from you Cy!
Sure! Here's a video just on the topic that I did some time back: ua-cam.com/video/ABHUeTRvOQ8/v-deo.html
Also have one short video on the colony of Akragas. Plans to do Syracuse in 2023! Thanks for watching!
Good video 👌...keep up👍
Thank you, appreciate the kind words... more to come, stay safe!
👍 good video
Thank you, appreciate it! Stay safe!
Cheers Cy!
What's up my friend, hope you're doing well! Stay safe!
very good video with good music
Auto liked since I love Mycenaean Greece and the Bronze Age.
Thanks, hope that this video lives up to expectations! More to come stay safe!
good vid cy
Thanks, really appreciate it... stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy you too homeboi
in the beggining talks about Franchti and about 13.000 BC. except the fact that they had developed a kind of prime ships, it is IMPORTANT to have in our minds the fact that the sea level was much more lower in those years and the distances between the islands and the mainland was different and closer.. it was not the distance as we know it from the historical times , not even from the time of the bronze age.
Thank you! From România with love!
Thank you for stopping by, hope all is well in Romania... stay safe!
As for the origin of Mycenaean Greeks (the first Greek proper or Indoeuropean Greeks) I recently (a year ago or so) became persuaded that they must have originated in the coastal facies of Vucedol culture in what is now Montenegro (Mala Gruda group) and invaded Greece by sea, because the pattern of early tumuli that should be associated to their arrival is very much coastal and surprisingly southerner for a land-based invasion (and the architectural parallels are obvious, also Vucedol culture has for long been suspect of being at the origin of Mycenaeans).
This would also explain how the Pelasgians (pre-Indoeuropean Greeks) survived in Thessaly (per the legends and stories at least), which was probably only fully Hellenized or Indoeuropeanized in the Dark Age. Crucially it explains how Mycenaeans were able to reach as far as Iberia (where their influence is clear and strong since c. 1550 BCE in El Argar B), what seems most unlikely for a land-based invader civilization that had just begun to sail, they were into sailing before conquering Greece it seems to me. It can also explain the somewhat mysterious connection with the Macedonio-Phrygio-Armenians, who IMO reached Northern Greece by land from (I guess) core Vucedol (in Serbia and nearby areas) but much later, at the end of the Bronze Age.
Interesting... I've been looking for more sources on the Vucedol culture but haven't really been able to find much info other than a few paragraphs here and there in a couple of books. I'm sure there must be, just having trouble finding in English. If you know of any good translations or sources in English (Portuguese and Spanish will work as long as the language is not too academic) let me know! Thanks again, always appreciate learning new things from your comments...stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy - PS - The Veneti of West Brittany were another sailor people, as reported by Caesar but it's not clear that they were Celtic. F. Krutwig (a somewhat controversial intellectual and historian from the Basque Country, in spite of his German surname) thought they were pre-Indoeuropean.
@@LuisAldamiz The forefathers of the Myceneans probably came from the Catacomb culture since some elements of that culture have been found as far as mycenean Greece
@@minimal8187 - I don't think so. It's an old, 20th century, speculative theory but more importantly doesn't fit the data.
@@LuisAldamizStrange thing here is that ancient Greeks called themselves autochthonous, meaning born from the land/soil, and in the memory of people there was nothing which could evidence that they had migrated to Greece from somewhere else. Another strange thing is that Greek royal genealogies originate from Peloponnese,from the south, and not from the north as could the IE theory suggest. I cannot make a conclusion, but the origin of the Greeks is a really interesting topic.
I enjoy your videos
awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! best channel on all of youtube
Thanks my friend, I'm honored...lots of great channels out there but I'm grateful for the compliment. More to come, stay safe!
Great, many thanks to author.
This was very interesting. I did not know about the cave nor the neolithic site.
Yeah, I learned about it too while writing the script for this...there's so much more that I wanted to add but didn't have the time to put in... perhaps in a podcast. As always, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it. More to come, stay safe!
Fantastic :)
Thank you!
Sweet! I'm more into Greek & Roman history than the truly ancient cultures (although I like it all). Well done!🙏
Oh then you're in luck... lots more on the way! Stay safe!
cy you do a good job
Have some fun, check out the quiz for this episode on Greece in the Bronze Age:
www.blumarker.org/bronze-age-greece.html
you really are a battler who keeps on with history!
@@anasevi9456 Thanks for the kind words, glad you like these... stay safe!
I will do it though I would suck at it Im sure D
@Jordan & Jordan I am older than FYRO Vardarska banovina and
*MACEDONIA® IS GREECE ONLY*
Tnx for this video well done I think the Minoan is one of the most advanced and underrated and definitely the most interesting civilizations of the ancient world specially with there origin being pre indo-European and the native of Greece possibly the people who spread genetic haplogroup (e1b1b )and (j2 ) looking forward for you next videos
Thank you! I think I'll do a special podcast about the Minoans early next year... 7-10 minutes doesn't do them justice. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
Another great video. Will you put your older videos about Minoans and Mycenaeans in the playlist with this one or you want this new serie to be separate?
Thank you! I'll put this one in the "Ancient Mediterranean" list, but I won't add the older ones to this. Though the info in those should be fine, I consider the newer vids on Greece to be a reboot... I think they're much better than the older vids with regard to graphics and sound, so I'll keep them separate for now. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it...stay safe!
Your channel is undoubtedly the most underrated history channel on UA-cam. Keep it up 😍
Thanks my friend, really appreciate the kind words... will do, no plans of stopping! There's plenty more on the way, stay safe!
Continuing my binge of your excellent content Cy. I also have a question/recommendation. Have you read “Dawn of Genius”, by Alan Butler? It’s a book about the innovations, rise, and decline of the Minoan civilization, and makes some of the most fascinating (though also somewhat controversial) arguments I’ve heard regarding their technology and the reasons for their decline.
Hi, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! I have heard of that book but haven't read it. I'll see if I can get a copy of it as I'm going to do a general podcast about Minoan daily life at some point...something away from the palaces and great cities to what we know of the average Minoan. Thanks for the recommendation, really appreciate it! All the best for 2021, stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy No problem. It makes some very interesting claims about their unique mathematics, measurements, calendars, and connection to Western European civilizations. It's pretty weird.
I look forward to your future work, and keep safe yourself.
But Cy, could the cave remnants be from a time when there was no water barrier between the two locations? Not saying I know better, but the water have always risen, not dropped over time...
Hmm, that's a very interesting point which I don't have the answer to. The last ice age I believe ended around 12,000 BC, bit I think this part of the Mediterranean would have flooded up by then (I'm just making a guess). I would think though that the archaeologists would have taken that into consideration but you do bring up a really good point. If I learn more about this, I'll let you know. Thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
This an easily answerable question, just look at the topography of the oceans, any area with more than 10 meters depth was unlikely to have been non-submerged in hisotrical times, in fact the opposite can be the case, given fluvial deposits.
Actually there was a time were no water was in what later became the Aegean Sea. About 10.000 b.c.
Read N.G.L Hammond about Greece. But also the archeological findings throughout Greece. A, and, the Minoans were 100% Greek as archeological findings indicate. Love Cy !
@@HistorywithCy At about 12,000 BP (not BC), sea levels were about 100 meters lower than at present. Until about 8000 to 7000 BP, it was possible to walk to what is now Great Britain without getting your feet wet (one would have to stick to the right bank of the Rhine of course). Look into the geography of the region called Doggerland that is now under the North Sea
Thanks
My pleasure, stay safe!
Cant sleep yet, new Bronze Age History :D
Haha yeah I sometimes when I start reading a new book on the subject... just captivates me - sleep at that point becomes non-essential. Thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
thanks for your excellent videos, thanks to you i know more of Mesopotamia that i could have wished and am grateful for it.
Oh my pleasure, glad you like these. I'll have a few more on ancient Mesopotamia coming up in the next few months as well along with some new areas that I haven't covered much before. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it and stay tuned!
bro can you make indus vally civilization episode? i love your channel always
Hi, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! Actually, I had made one some time back on the IVC/Harappan civilization... here it is:
ua-cam.com/video/pKGq56YP98I/v-deo.html
I'll do more on India soon! Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it... stay safe and Happy New Year!
Thanks for the video. Nice work. Just a minor correction. You misspoke at 12:15 when you said that "Mycenae itself was put to the torch around 12,000 to 1190 BC." Maybe a pop-up correction is in order. Those well-versed in Greek history know what you meant to say, but newbies might be confused.
Hi, thanks so much for stopping by and the feedback, really appreciate it! Yeah, that was a slip of the tongue on my part, sorry about that. I'll see how I can fix that...might be able to dub over it. Thanks for catching that, really appreciate it! More ancient Greek history to come, stay safe!
Recommended a few good book on this please gooys!! Much love🥰🥰🥰
Hi, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! There's a link in the video description entitled "Sources and Suggested Reading" where you might find some books of interest. Any other questions, please don't hesitate to let me know. Thanks again and stay safe!
Cy you do your presentation so well, even showing artifacts that it makes impossible to stop watching the way you present history. Knowing you will continue to update as you discover more evidence makes to top in this field. So many other sites keep repeating the same dribble that I have listen more than 20 years ago. I am so grateful to have found your site because, now I do not have to go through the closing ones that just change title. Blessings to You and Yours ❤🧡💛💚💙💜❣💦💦
Very nice video ! Just one comment...Ventris who read Linear B was not philologist, but an architect.
Hi, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! Yes, that's correct he was trained as an architect and after WWII relocated I believe to Sweden and worked there. He has a really interesting story though... We was fluent in five or six languages and had also studied some Latin and Greek, which I suppose got him interested in ancient languages and Linear B. I suppose that we can call him an amateur philologist since I think you're right, he didn't have any formal training in philology that I'm aware of. Thanks again for the comment, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
Finally, a video for the Hoi polloi!
Yup, of course, it's about time I got into this. Thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it, more to come, stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy I love your videos, very well done!
@@HistorywithCyStay safe as well, love all your videos. The more we know together the stronger we are. The ultimate challenge, space. Imagine our children's children from Mars or another planet studying our ancient CDs, VHs, broadcast signals etc...gives me the goosebumps but so do papyrus papers.
@@GHST995 CDs will be the cuneiform tablets of the 22nd century!
I don't know if anyone would know this but where the mycenaeans attacked by the Sea people, joined the sea people, or were they the origin of them?
I would venture to guess a bit of all three. 🍻
Haha I'll be covering this in the next video - basically what happened to the Mycenaeans and the Greek Dark Age. Stay tuned and thanks for stopping by, appreciate it!
Lovely video Cy, had an opportunity to visi Knossos it was an amazing experience, it has specific aura, and i think Minoans and Mycenaens were totally different people, Mycenaens were more like some northeners, more discipline war like caste society, somehow i find similarities between them and Hittites, the same system and same stone masonry.
Wow, you are so lucky! I have always wanted to go there and maybe in 2021/22 it will happen as I want to visit Greece sometime next year (pandemic permitting). Yeah agreed I think that they are different based on the archaeological findings. With regard to Mycenaeans and Hittites - yes, I think there is truth to this because I also believe that they were in contact and essentially shared a border, though through vassal kingdoms. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
I remember this one book on Ancient Greece(I'd have to dig the book out of the garage). It mentions that the Greeks used stone flint technology all the way down to like 800 B.C.
Excellent; am I to understand that knossos wasn't discovered until the late 19th century; how did it go unnoticed and unexplored for so long? Backing music is perfect, too!
Thank you! Some locals seem to have known about it since they're the ones who directed Evans to the site, but no one really knew what it was until it was excavated. There were so many unexcavated ruins in those days (probably still true today) that most non-Cretans, if they knew of it, probably thought it was nothing spectacular... haha were they wrong!
Thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
don't be too long, this is interesting.
Thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy thank you, same goes for you.
Γεια im from greece i like ur videos
Thank you so much cy. I love your work. To me it’s quite evident that the miceneans were the mysterious Sea People. The Danuna and the Ekwesh are easily recognizable names, and the Philistines have been proven to be genetically greek and... well, just look at the geography and the timeframe!! What do you think about it?
Haha you basically gave the synopsis for my next video the ancient Greece which will deal with what happened to the Mycenaeans and the also the Greek Dark Age. I'm almost done writing it, just have to revise, record and then do the visuals. Thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
The Seskians were new to me when watching this. The wiki says they go back to like 5000/6000 B.C. Then you point out Cycladic culture. I think I recall hearing about them before. They said their archaeology was ruined before Archaeologists could get in there.
The Ancient Greeks provide a window on just how active neolithic cultures were.
I think your map at 7:43 may be wrong. The blue area excludes Ithaca and the Ionian Islands, the Mycenaean king Odysseus' home.
I'm trying to figure how how Troy could have been destroyed by the Mycenaeans around 1187, supposedly after or at about the same time as Mycenae gets trashed by someone else. Homer has everyone returning home, but not to charred ruins.
Homer’s account may be a confused cultural memory of desparate Myceneans joining the Sea People in their attacks on Anatolia, and then he just sort of slapped the vaguely remembered city states on there as a background story for where they came from. Alternatively, the siege of Troy may have been a last desparate attempt by a Mycenean alliance to secure their dwindling supply of tin for bronzemaking in the face of collapsing international trade networks. In which case the absence of troops may have led to the uprisings and chaos at home in the face of the economic and agricultural collapse. Even in Homer, a lot of the kings end up assassinated or at war when they return, and Diomedes and his followers outright flee to Italy.
YESSSSS
Thanks!!
Hey Cy, you often pronounce things like Persian names or other names in a way closer to how they would have been said.
So could you use the hard k sound rather than the softer s sound when pronouncing Greek stuff? At least as an example before the other stuff. Especially about Mycenae, it should be Mykenai or similar. Rather than the modern English "Myseenee".
I know it's a popular pronunciation, but I feel it would help enrich the presentation of this sort of thing. While also providing a bit of that ancient flavor to the language. :)
Hi, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! That's is a very valid point. In the beginning, even with ancient topics like ancient Mesopotamia, my pronunciation of certain Akkadian names was terrible. However, as I started to study this more formally and take classes with professors and hear them online, it really improved. I'm hoping that the same will happen with some of these Greek names. My pronunciation of Mycenae is as you've stated, a more Anglicized way of saying it. The advantage of this for the viewer though is that it's more recognizable - they're probably more likely to have heard "Myseenee" vs "Mykenai" for example. But yeah, you make a very valid point that should be considered.
As always, thanks so much for stopping by, really appreciate it! More to come, stay safe!
Is it possible that the Greek regions in question at the beginning of this may not be so separated by water? I'm only asking out of curiosity.
Hi, thanks for stopping by, really appreciate it! You mean in prehistoric times, closer to the end of the ice age? It's possible but I think that the archaeologists would have take that into consideration. It's a valid point though.
Thanks again for the comment, hope all is well on your end and all the best for 2021!
@@HistorywithCy that's precisely what I mean. The land masses may have had less water between them. Thanks for your response
I would LOVE for a content creator who has ACTUALLY read the Iliad to do a comparison between everything that is historically proven (e.g. the Trojan coastline in 2003 geological survey) and everything that is ahistorical with what Homer writes.
Hi, thanks for stopping by, appreciate it. That would be a great idea! I have read the Iliad (twice actually) and can look into it. Thanks so much for the suggestion, appreciate it, stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy great! Things like Achilles saying he sacked 12 cities by sea and 11 by land, etc. And how that matches with Sea Peoples. Or the very accurate descriptions of the armor, e.g. Agamemnons in that it was a gift from Cyprus and the description matching half Cypriot scale armor. Or Iphidamantes spear and Agamemnons belt stopping it, or the heraldic star and circle shaped marks on Achilles’ second armor and how that matches bronze ages cuirasses found in northern Greece, modern Slavic areas.. The amount of actual cuirasses found from precisely the Trojan war era 1250-1150 BCE in existence are only 5 examples known to academia I believe, so very easy to find and match up with Homeric descriptions. E.g. the finds from Caka Okr, Levice Slovakia (1250BCE), Ducovè Okv. Trencin (1250BCE).
PS: I’m not a historian just a regular idiot on the Internet, I’m sure an actual historian could find a hundred more.
Also check the last post in this thread:
www.planetfigure.com/threads/achilles.111813/
PPS: If you don’t know it yet, this may become your favorite ever website:
www.salimbeti.com/micenei/armour5.htm
♡ u Cy
Right back at ya, my viewers rock!
Can you explain why the Hittites didn't go to war with the Mycenaeans if troy was a vessel state?
Time for some ancient Greek knowledge. Yes please!!!! :)
For sure! I'm really excited to put out more Greek-related stuff out in the next few months. Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy I've learned so much about the Bronze Age from your videos. Always my pleasure to stop by and watch. :)
I’m gonna google it later, but do we know where the Mycenaeans came from? Like did they originally come from Anatolia? Because I have a theory about the Bronze Age collapse and the Iliad, but if they came from that region originally maybe it was more like a Hittite civil war where some old dynasty was kicked out and much later went to war with the people who kicked them out. Maybe the later story of Helen being taken maybe is a later addition by Greeks who identified with Greece as their homeland, and the original was something about their home being taken from them or their throne or power of some kind. Idk, I’m good on all the stuff we have evidence for, but it’s all the myth and legend stuff that could be loosely based on actual events that got passed down through story telling where the most popular version is the one that gets passed along and it changes every generation as things get forgotten or elaborated on. So a story that originally could have been simple like “The King gathered his men and went across the sea to reclaim what was stolen. A mighty war took place over many years.” Then could get elaborated on with things like who was the king? Where did they go? What was stolen? How long was the war? And then you add characters to color and refine the story giving it a narrative. The most memorable story gets passed along so likely the most colorful/entertaining versions for passed down leading to the Iliad and then even into modern retelling with movies where the story is even further expanded to make a full movie length story.
I wish we knew more about the Bronze Age. Especially during what seems to have been the first golden age of trade. I think every modern myth of apocalypse and end of the world is born from the Late Bronze Age Collapse. The eastern Mediterranean and Near East for at least half a millenium represented the pinnacle of human advancement and utility and then in about half a cenury it was almost all gone, save for Egypt and some traders in the Levant who would go on to usher the second golden age of trade before Rome takes over.
@12:14 a little mistake in the narration, 12000 should be 1200
Ahh, slip of the tongue...thanks for letting me know! Haha yeah 12,000 to 1190 BC is a loooooooong time....
@@HistorywithCy You're welcome! Have you been to Getty Villa ?
Nice to start with the Franchthi Cave and see that they traded obsidian with the islanders. The Minoan Linear A script at 4:22 was deciphered recently: ua-cam.com/video/PiLyN9T2stY/v-deo.html
Hi thanks so much for stopping by and the link, really appreciate it! I read snippets about that, translation using machine learning which is honestly really cool stuff! The thing though is that I don't think it's been reviewed/approved/published by a consensus of scholars which I guess takes time, and so I'm not sure if it's been accepted by everyone in the field yet. But interesting stuff nevertheless! Thanks again for stopping by, really appreciate it! Stay safe!
@@HistorywithCy Thank you for your comment and the many videos that I enjoyed watching as a subscriber to your channel. The Minoan Linear A translations have been published in refereed journals and have gained some acceptance. We plan to publish more translations this year.
@@PeterRevesz HI, thanks so much for the second reply. That's great! Do you know how/where/when I can get these journals? I'd love to do a follow up on this video with the latest information and translations of Linear A, as to be honest, I'd love to read them to see what they hold. Thank you so much for bringing all this to my attention, I really appreciate it!