Dan, thank you for all your hard work throughout the many years. We’re neighbors you’ve never heard of me, but I’ve certainly heard of you again thank you. And thank you for sharing all that wealth of information.
Great interview. Dan has always been a great supporter of light sport aviation. For those who have not read the mosiac NPRM 1. Weight from 1320lbs to 3000lbs plus 2. Speed from 120knots to 250knots 3. Constant speed prop 4. Retractable gear 5. Stall speed from 45knt to 54knt 6. Night flight( medical or basic med) 7. Four seat aircraft 8. Turbines and multi engine 9. Air work for hire
I have also read something about experimental being able to be used as trainers in schools. Seems like this could help me if I bought a certain experimental to help my brother finish his training.
What of FAR 103.7 ultralights. Many ultralights were removed from ultralight category because of weight. Why not relax or modify the rule on ultralights with respect to weight. Basically Many ultralight aircraft could still operate safely, ie. Stall speed, cruise speed, single occupancy, are still the same. restrictions would remain the same, no night flying, no flying in restricted airspace. It would allow Ultralight pilots to fly in relative comfort with enclosed cockpits. Basically fly in a safer aircraft. I believe that ultralights deserve some consideration for all of these reasons.
Dan I have been flying a 300C helicopter for 35 years besides a 162,182 and other twins . Considering the helicopter gross less than 3,000 pds and 1,360 pds ship only its stall speed none existent and an excellent History of accidents for example fort fort, Ruggs, Alabama retired them with over a million hours in training with only one class A accident . That became by some one walking into the tail rotor. The ability to land if any sort of problem exsist without an airport should be solved included in this new grouping . Fact the low accident rate over the R22 is absolutely insane Please include support for this type
Dan, why do you think the proposed 54 knot clean stall speed is unlikely to be increased in the final rule? Is there a better chance of changing that to a 54 knot stall speed in the landing configuration?
Hope that can be changed. 54kt clean stall would make the 250kt upper limit completely pointless as you would never get such a lightly loaded wing over 120kts in level flight without a huge engine and some massive inefficiency.
@mytech6779 that is not the point. The 250knots is there because that is the speed limit below 10,000 feet and there are several light sport aircraft that already cruise at 190 knots.
There are 2 issues in MOSIAC that may create legal issues for private pilots. One is that sport pilots can carry 1 passenger. Private pilots can carry more than 1 but there is no training in the private pilot curriculum for carrying those extra passengers. The second is making sport pilots get an endorsement to fly at night after training. That will prove proficiency. Therefore, a private pilot with the same training with out that endorsement may be deemed “not proficient” in court in the event of an accident.
Private pilot night training = certificate of attendance. Endorsement = certificate of graduation. Currently, a person can train for private pilot in a Cessna 152 and then go out in a Cessna 172 at night with 3 passengers, crash and kill them (has happened many times before, look it up) without "endorsements". Therefore, a sport pilot needing endorsements will equal a higher level of training.@@mytech6779
While many are stuck on what it does for light sport pilots, I’m not sure many LS pilots want to leave a beautiful new glass cockpit RV12 to go fly an old 172 or PA28 at the same speeds. I believe the best thing MOSAIC brings out will be consensus standard (ASTM) designed aircraft kits not constrained by the 51% rule of EAB, or the weight and speed restrictions of LSA, along with increased availability of builder assist programs. Ultimately higher performance aircraft than original light sport, built under ELSA and SLSA guidelines to keep costs down well below new part 23 certificated type aircraft. This will help modernize the GA fleet, while getting some of the really ratty old stuff off the flight lines.
No one will want that rv12 at 120knots and 1320lbs. Unless vans changes the designing weight to allow for higher speed amd weight, it will become a less attractive offering for light sport compared to the coming mosaic aircraft
@homertalk the new mosaic aircraft will resemble aircraft like the Texas colt that has four seats and 200hp lycoming or the new gogetair from Europe that has the 915 and cruises at 150knts for 300,000
Would existing light sport aircraft be able to bump up there max takeoff weight? Provided there structure could handle it. An extra 30 pounds would be nice on a cross country.
Does this Tank the price of existing LSA aircraft? Does it increase the price on the new MLSA type craft? A Piper sport at 100k or an RV 4,6,7, at 60k? Heck a Long EZ 40ish..
Leave it to bureaucrats to wildly stab in the dark and needessly fumble simple issues. 1. What is the Purpose of the Light Sport pilot cert? A: Basically just fixing the previously fumbled recreational pilot cert without admitting to any mistake. 2. What is the purpose of the Sport aircraft certification category when aircraft limitations are set by the manufacturers? (Which was always the case, even with the old arbitrary normal/utility/aerobatic categories a POH could restrict certain uses and loadings.) Is it just a risk/testing category between experimental ameturebuilt and normal category suitable for public transport? eg good enough for pilots educated in the risk level but still more production than experimental in nature? Or was it to offer a category equivalent to the meaning of "Ultralight" or "Microlight" as it is used outside of the USA (aircraft under about 500 or 600Kg) A: ??? 3. The lack of medically caused accidents is likely because of medical certificates even if they are also looking for some irrelevent stuff, this is called "survior-bias" in formal statistics. (A survivor in this case meens passing the medical exam, not a literal survivor of a crash.) And I would argue there are a good number of accidents caused by medical issues that just aren't being properly acknowledged and recorded. Specifcially degraded cognative function. I know psychiatry is far from exacting, full of debate, and rather taboo on the political side so taking preventative regulatory action would be a minefield for all sides. But the NTSB should at least be considering it as a factor and stating its contribution to accidents in a much more explicit way that is useful for data analysis(with sufficient detail as to the subtype).
The sport pilot certificate tested the "driver's license medical" which helped bring in BasicMed, brought all "2 seat ultralights" and overweight ultralights into legal status by moving their pilots into the certificated pilot world and registering those aircraft. It also showed that basic piloting skills can be taught in fewer hours. Overall, it was successful. It also allowed CFIs to add on ratings such as glider to an airplane certificate without the high cost of a DPE checkride, and that was also a great success. I do agree that the Recreational Certificate was too burdensome to be of use and people voted with their feet by not getting it. In the old days anyone who trained in a Cub and got their private pilot certificate was basically a sport pilot. They rarely flew at night, most did not fly far, and they only took 1 passenger. But, that certificate allowed them to jump into a much larger plane without more training and fill it with people and fly at night into a mountain with their magical 3 hours of instrument training. Maybe its time to place endorsement restrictions on private pilots to bring down their accident rate? If you want to look at no medical flying check out the glider world. No medical required at all. Peace.
The main reasoning behind mosaic is to bring light sport rules in alignment with Brazilian and European rules. They are also focused on allowing new technologies into the design of newer mosaic models, which will include turbine engines and enhanced safety features like BRS parachute system without encroaching on mtow. The private pilot certificate has been held as the holy grail of general aviation and the mosaic rules are challenging that notion in some regards and some don't like it.
I kind of feel like commenting on the rules might help the FAA fix things that a sport pilot might be able to take advantage of through a loophole. So I would rather not help the FAA lol
I don't get how this new rule will make aviation more accessible or less expensive? I'm just not getting that out of yet another explanation of this new Mosaic rules? I've watched now several videos on this and still, cement head here, not getting it. LOL
Dan, thank you for all your hard work throughout the many years. We’re neighbors you’ve never heard of me, but I’ve certainly heard of you again thank you. And thank you for sharing all that wealth of information.
Great interview. Dan has always been a great supporter of light sport aviation. For those who have not read the mosiac NPRM
1. Weight from 1320lbs to 3000lbs plus
2. Speed from 120knots to 250knots
3. Constant speed prop
4. Retractable gear
5. Stall speed from 45knt to 54knt
6. Night flight( medical or basic med)
7. Four seat aircraft
8. Turbines and multi engine
9. Air work for hire
I have also read something about experimental being able to be used as trainers in schools. Seems like this could help me if I bought a certain experimental to help my brother finish his training.
@@Mobev1 Yep, I'm in the exact same situation.
What of FAR 103.7 ultralights. Many ultralights were removed from ultralight category because of weight. Why not relax or modify the rule on ultralights with respect to weight. Basically Many ultralight aircraft could still operate safely, ie. Stall speed, cruise speed, single occupancy, are still the same. restrictions would remain the same, no night flying, no flying in restricted airspace. It would allow Ultralight pilots to fly in relative comfort with enclosed cockpits. Basically fly in a safer aircraft. I believe that ultralights deserve some consideration for all of these reasons.
Love Dan's support of light sport and ultralight aviation. Thank you Dan! Thanks to Sporty's for helping share the message.
Thanks for taking the time to create and publish this content. It's very informative.
Dan I have been flying a 300C helicopter for 35 years besides a 162,182 and other twins . Considering the helicopter gross less than 3,000 pds and 1,360 pds ship only its stall speed none existent and an excellent History of accidents for example fort fort, Ruggs, Alabama retired them with over a million hours in training with only one class A accident . That became by some one walking into the tail rotor. The ability to land if any sort of problem exsist without an airport should be solved included in this new grouping . Fact the low accident rate over the R22 is absolutely insane
Please include support for this type
Dan, why do you think the proposed 54 knot clean stall speed is unlikely to be increased in the final rule? Is there a better chance of changing that to a 54 knot stall speed in the landing configuration?
Hope that can be changed. 54kt clean stall would make the 250kt upper limit completely pointless as you would never get such a lightly loaded wing over 120kts in level flight without a huge engine and some massive inefficiency.
@mytech6779 that is not the point. The 250knots is there because that is the speed limit below 10,000 feet and there are several light sport aircraft that already cruise at 190 knots.
Impressive presentation, Dan! ....please don't retire yet.
Flight training? Will flight schools that use the 172’s now be able to solo LSA pilots? My nearest school with an LSA type is 4 hours away.
When mosaic becomes law, a flight school with a qualifying aircraft will be able to use that aircraft as a light sport training aircraft
Do you think the KFA SAFARI XL will be available as a factory built option in the USA after MOSAIC?
There are 2 issues in MOSIAC that may create legal issues for private pilots. One is that sport pilots can carry 1 passenger. Private pilots can carry more than 1 but there is no training in the private pilot curriculum for carrying those extra passengers. The second is making sport pilots get an endorsement to fly at night after training. That will prove proficiency. Therefore, a private pilot with the same training with out that endorsement may be deemed “not proficient” in court in the event of an accident.
Night training is already required for a Private. (With a temporary 12 month grace period if you train in Alaska during summer.)
Also currency requirements
Private pilot night training = certificate of attendance. Endorsement = certificate of graduation. Currently, a person can train for private pilot in a Cessna 152 and then go out in a Cessna 172 at night with 3 passengers, crash and kill them (has happened many times before, look it up) without "endorsements". Therefore, a sport pilot needing endorsements will equal a higher level of training.@@mytech6779
While many are stuck on what it does for light sport pilots, I’m not sure many LS pilots want to leave a beautiful new glass cockpit RV12 to go fly an old 172 or PA28 at the same speeds. I believe the best thing MOSAIC brings out will be consensus standard (ASTM) designed aircraft kits not constrained by the 51% rule of EAB, or the weight and speed restrictions of LSA, along with increased availability of builder assist programs. Ultimately higher performance aircraft than original light sport, built under ELSA and SLSA guidelines to keep costs down well below new part 23 certificated type aircraft. This will help modernize the GA fleet, while getting some of the really ratty old stuff off the flight lines.
No one will want that rv12 at 120knots and 1320lbs. Unless vans changes the designing weight to allow for higher speed amd weight, it will become a less attractive offering for light sport compared to the coming mosaic aircraft
@@mauriceevans6546 They can have all their 172's, 11 gallons an hour, no thanks
@homertalk the new mosaic aircraft will resemble aircraft like the Texas colt that has four seats and 200hp lycoming or the new gogetair from Europe that has the 915 and cruises at 150knts for 300,000
Will Mosaic affect ultralight weights?
Would existing light sport aircraft be able to bump up there max takeoff weight? Provided there structure could handle it. An extra 30 pounds would be nice on a cross country.
Hope ultralights rule change also, weight, speed and fuel etc. Wish they would make Kitfox type airplane ultralight.
Does this Tank the price of existing LSA aircraft? Does it increase the price on the new MLSA type craft?
A Piper sport at 100k or an RV 4,6,7, at 60k? Heck a Long EZ 40ish..
Yes for the latter. I'm not sure what it means for the legacy light sport aircraft. New aircraft will have turbine engines and bigger piston engines.
Great podcast about Mosaic
Confused why people keep saying legacy 172, etc. What about a new 172 with a stall speed of 48knt?
They will also fit within the new MOSAIC regulations.
Leave it to bureaucrats to wildly stab in the dark and needessly fumble simple issues.
1. What is the Purpose of the Light Sport pilot cert?
A: Basically just fixing the previously fumbled recreational pilot cert without admitting to any mistake.
2. What is the purpose of the Sport aircraft certification category when aircraft limitations are set by the manufacturers? (Which was always the case, even with the old arbitrary normal/utility/aerobatic categories a POH could restrict certain uses and loadings.) Is it just a risk/testing category between experimental ameturebuilt and normal category suitable for public transport? eg good enough for pilots educated in the risk level but still more production than experimental in nature?
Or was it to offer a category equivalent to the meaning of "Ultralight" or "Microlight" as it is used outside of the USA (aircraft under about 500 or 600Kg)
A: ???
3. The lack of medically caused accidents is likely because of medical certificates even if they are also looking for some irrelevent stuff, this is called "survior-bias" in formal statistics. (A survivor in this case meens passing the medical exam, not a literal survivor of a crash.)
And I would argue there are a good number of accidents caused by medical issues that just aren't being properly acknowledged and recorded. Specifcially degraded cognative function. I know psychiatry is far from exacting, full of debate, and rather taboo on the political side so taking preventative regulatory action would be a minefield for all sides. But the NTSB should at least be considering it as a factor and stating its contribution to accidents in a much more explicit way that is useful for data analysis(with sufficient detail as to the subtype).
The sport pilot certificate tested the "driver's license medical" which helped bring in BasicMed, brought all "2 seat ultralights" and overweight ultralights into legal status by moving their pilots into the certificated pilot world and registering those aircraft. It also showed that basic piloting skills can be taught in fewer hours. Overall, it was successful. It also allowed CFIs to add on ratings such as glider to an airplane certificate without the high cost of a DPE checkride, and that was also a great success.
I do agree that the Recreational Certificate was too burdensome to be of use and people voted with their feet by not getting it. In the old days anyone who trained in a Cub and got their private pilot certificate was basically a sport pilot. They rarely flew at night, most did not fly far, and they only took 1 passenger. But, that certificate allowed them to jump into a much larger plane without more training and fill it with people and fly at night into a mountain with their magical 3 hours of instrument training. Maybe its time to place endorsement restrictions on private pilots to bring down their accident rate?
If you want to look at no medical flying check out the glider world. No medical required at all.
Peace.
Private pilot glider rating does not require any medical amd with a self launch endorsement, one can fly internationally, to 18,000ft and at night
The main reasoning behind mosaic is to bring light sport rules in alignment with Brazilian and European rules. They are also focused on allowing new technologies into the design of newer mosaic models, which will include turbine engines and enhanced safety features like BRS parachute system without encroaching on mtow. The private pilot certificate has been held as the holy grail of general aviation and the mosaic rules are challenging that notion in some regards and some don't like it.
I think ultralights aren't't popular because the hours don't count towards any ratings or ATP.
If they did I would have bought one.
I kind of feel like commenting on the rules might help the FAA fix things that a sport pilot might be able to take advantage of through a loophole.
So I would rather not help the FAA lol
How bout some pictures?
I don't get how this new rule will make aviation more accessible or less expensive? I'm just not getting that out of yet another explanation of this new Mosaic rules? I've watched now several videos on this and still, cement head here, not getting it. LOL
I'd like to flight at night (if not, no problem) with the proper endorsement.
I just hope MOSAIC stays in the USA. Not wanted in Europe.
Why
Nobody cares about europe...in regards to aviation.
You guys have some awesome lights port aircraft there I don't think u need a change
So you want to do asway with Trans-Atlantic Flights. ?