Back then the sellers used to thank the customers for buying stuff from then, now the buyer is thanking the sellers for selling the stuff to them. Crazy.
Ive always been thanked for my patronage whether it's a Seiko or a Rolex. Handwritten thank you cards are great to receive in the mail. I reciprocate when appropriate.
These are what I recommend 1) don’t finance with money you don’t have 2) buy what YOU like 3) ask for discounts/deals 4) begin with entry level and work your way up, if you wish 5) visit brick & mortar ADs to try on different pieces and establish rapport 6) know what you are buying (movement, functions, size, etc.) 7) have fun and enjoy the chase - remember it’s not a race
After seeing your first two tips I can only assume that you've overpaid for many of your watches! But seriously, it's not about not doing those things, it's about how you approach them. Talk to your AD and be honest, humble and realistic. As my Dad always said, "Don't ask, don't get".
The opposite. I've gotten incredible deals on all of my watches. Save for Rolex and VC which I paid retail for. It's about negotiating with etiquette and not like a noob.
Bruce you are representing the AD in this video, but honestly these points are really to the new buyers into the hobby - people walk into the boutique for the first time.
Absolutely this should be watched by the first time or new luxury buyer. Doesn't matter if it is AD, dealer, or private party like I mention in the beginning
I understand your point of trying to get people to use some etiquette when dealing with sales people, but what’s the deal with telling everyone basically not to negotiate? And why does a customer have to be “vetted” by a salesperson?
Lol what video did you watch? I specifically said do your homework and make a slightly insulting offer. Always negotiate. But trying to use the grey market as a bargaining ploy is just dumb. About being vetted- some models warrant that. Good ADs want the hottest of hot models going to good non flipper clients. I wouldn't sell a Daytona to a Joe Schmoe walk in
I agree with everything said with exception of strategically using Jomashop in some serious negotiations. Having said that, Ive never asked an AD to match a Joma price. For watches that I know can be fairly well discounted, I have explained to ADs (as respectfully as possible) that the question is: Can we agree on a price that would dissuade me from taking the Joma risk? (No factory warranty and questionable customer service if there was an issue with the watch). I have found that when approached in that way (again, for watches that can be well discounted), it has helped me get that 20-25% discount that I try to target on certain brands. For brands that I know discounts are difficult to come by, I would never bring up Joma. I've also found that if you do try to use Joma in negotiations, it's always best to be straight forward and honest about what Joma's drawbacks are to let your sales person know you aren't just "kicking tires".
Agreed. Particularly when it comes to watches with off-the-shelf movements, well-known grey market is not a bad move. The only way Joma has burned me is by letting me buy a watch that is stated as "in stock" and then a few weeks later it's suddenly not known when they'll be getting it back in. They've always accepted any returns without issue, the most expensive being a Pelagos. They're not always great to deal with, but they've been, at least, adequate, imo. If you're buying a high-horology piece or a newer watch with a manufacturer caliber, that's a solid line of demarcation where I'd really stick to the AD. But, if for whatever reason, you get stuck with a malfunctioning ETA or Sellita, you're generally not taking a crushing loss to repair it. Same goes with about any Seiko under $1,000USD - The discount from ebay or grey market is huge and if, by chance, you're burned (though PayPal, eBay and such protect you also) a repair or replacement is still probably going to land you under the msrp.
There is a difference between tact and toolishness. Most noobs haven't had the grey market experience yet either. It's all about learning and improving your knowledge and etiquette
Oh definitely not. Quite the opposite. Watch enthusiasts need to learn helpful etiquette when dealing for luxury goods. If you think it's an enthusiast versus ad scenario is shows you have the wrong mindset. ADs want to sell watches and we want to buy them. It shouldn't be at odds lol
Never buy what is trending because its the hype, buy what you love and will enjoy more. Onlt buy buy you can afford and when you are ready. Thanks Bruce for the video 👍
Since when did dealing with sellers become like walking on thin ice?? You are wrong on the financing the watch thing, it's not irresponsible if you're getting an interest free deal. Everything gets financed in this world, we're not drug Lords walking around with wads of cash in our pockets.
I never walk on thin ice, and if that's the way you feel when buying a watch you are doing it wrong. Lastly if you can't afford to pay outright for the watch. You can't afford the watch. Period. Keep as little debt in your life as possible. A modest home... Maybe a reasonable loan if you completed higher education. Pay them off as soon as possible. Live free
I disagree with point #2, #3, and in part #4. There are hundreds of AD's online located across the country and locally that are competing for your business. It's not wrong to shop around for a good price. which leads to price negotiations. As a result of shopping around for a good reasonable price, you're going to have to decline a few offers from AD's which will lead to violating rule #4. Although you are ready to make the purchase, you will end up disappointing a few AD's and waste their time, which may make it seem like you aren't ready to them. Finally - I don't see an issue with financing a watch if your able to secure zero to minimal interest that you can afford and can financially make the payments on time. Why not take advantage of cheap cost of capital where you can.
I think you missed the point Harry. I didn't say don't negotiate. I said make informed and slightly insulting offers. Do your home work and improve your etiquette. It will help you get better pricing. I also never said don't turn down offers. I said negotiate in good faith when you are actually able to buy. If you're just tire kicking be upfront about it
1. Know which watch you want to buy in advance. 2. Research the max % discount available. 3. Call up/visit your local ADs and tell them “I am looking to buy today, no finance needed, and I’ve been offered X% discount elsewhere. Could you match that deal today?” 99% this always works if they have the watch in stock - they’ll never turn down a quick and easy cash sale in my experience.
Have to be ready to walk away tho, cause if they call your bluff and they don't offer to match the discount, then you're not likely to have anymore leverage
In High demand watches Bruce's advice is solid: No need to insult seller with too low offer. However In rare and hard- to-sell watches low ball offers are often valid. Potential buyers are rare and sales times are long.
Wow! Alright, everyone! Now we know what to avoid doing if we don't want Bruce to look poorly upon us! ...I think I even felt the community breathe a collective sigh of releif.
I do believe, as a long time viewer, that BW does not act this way. These tips may seem obvious to some like you and me, but everyone is liable to make basic mistakes when entering a new hobby, or any activity.
I hate haggling, I dont know how to do it properly. Do you suggest X % and expect negotiating down to a lower %? Whats the best way to negotiate without being insulting towards an AD?
I go for.. "Are you able to move on the price?" (that way you find out whether you need to speak to a manager or not. If they are able to offer a discount they will say yes or no - then you know you are into negotiation) The next step I go for is to say "I'm aware that discounts of x% is available on this watch" (shows you did your research) "what would you be able to do"? Usually works for me - but like Bruce says, be willing to hand over your card
It just depends on the brand and watch. Come in 5 percent lower than what a good (for the buyer) price would be and negotiate up to that price. Be prepared to walk away if the seller won't meet you. Just make sure you do your homework on what those percentages should be on the watch you are interested in.
I head the “never finance a watch” advice all the time. But if you have the cash to back it, and you get the 0% interest Bruce mentioned, then you have to do the math of returns on that money not spent upfront over the terms of the financing. It would be stupid not to.
@@BruceWilliams because the investment returns in the cash not spent, until it is, could be meaningful. “Cash in hand” is better than not. Say you want a $10,000 watch and you finance it. ~$420/month for 24 months. Now invest the “back half” $5000. An average index return brings you back ~$300. And that’s a super simple version. You could shift the amounts/times around more optimally.
@@Justlaxin13 you should be investing with money not related to silly luxury watches. Keep your toys separate from your portfolio. Never go into debt for dumb stuff
@@BruceWilliams consider my example. Now consider the person buying or financing said $10,000 watch has $1 million in their brokerage and $1 million in savings (for the sake of argument). Why would they person not want another “free” $300 for the harmless cost of that $10k in dept, decreeing over 2 years?
@@Justlaxin13 I did, and if you have a million in savings spending 10k at once should make no difference than spending it over time. Most people financing watches aren't millionaires. They are living paycheck to paycheck on borrowed money. The more debt is normalized the worse our society becomes
Don't trust Jomashop's pricing unless it says "in stock, ready to ship." Anything else and they are going to try to find the watch after you pay them and refund you money when/if they can't find it at the price they want.
90% of ppl can’t afford or let got $2k cash for a watch and not return it. It’s all credit cards. I almost did that. But paying cash. Really makes you think what is realistically affordable. And then, you see better watches for less and very reliable or same movement in the $6k watches. Very harder to let go of cash in hand then credit. I went from almost charging for an omega. Then cash hammy. And dont regret that at all.
You forgot one: If you’re not really interested in the watch the AD is calling you about..pass on it so that the next guy has a chance at owning his grail watch🤣 #letsworktogether
@@stephen9609 If I could afford to buy 3 stephens I wouldn't buy any stephen at all because hatreful out of context comments appear out of nowhere and for free, loads of haters in the market, the supply is huge and demand is zero. A safe place for your family to live and raise your kids cannot be compared to a wristwatch, unless you're a super millionaire, are you? if so, in need of a friend?
@@stephen9609 If a person spends his entire life saving hard-earned money to buy a luxury watch, he needs to review his priorities and probably seek mental help.
I recently purchased a lightly used Timex M79 NN07 Edition, off of eBay. The market is all over the place for this watch, since only 777 were made. I've seen 390 to almost 1k for this watch. The buyer of my watch, was asking a buy it now of 350 which was a good deal. But patience pays off. No one was taking it for 350. I sent him a message, telling him. I'm willing to pay 250 ASAP, and to send me the offer. Replied back with 280, so got him to drop it by $70 already. So he was looking to really unload the watch. I replied back, telling him to keep me in mind. If he's willing to take 250 for it. Next reply was, ok 250 and sent me the offer. Great looking watch, but wasn't going pay outrageous asking prices, just because it's a limited edition Timex. Sometimes you gotta walk away.
The mark up on these watches is ridiculous. You can get/close to grey market quite easily. I bought a planet ocean by saying I will buy it from an airport tax free unless you can match the sale. 2 dealers came close and 1 matched it. 3 calls, 20% off, done.
Not sure I would totally agree on the Joma Card. I often see private sellers advertising watches well above Joma prices. If they are actual watch community people, I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that their price is simply not reflective of the reality of the market. It is not like they would be unaware of grey market. I've bought a number of watches from Joma without issue, something I cannot say for my private buys. Certainly far less risk than buying privately.
If you are are shopping for a watch listed well above the going rate you are shopping at the wrong place. Pointing out the GM will likely not do anything for those types of sellers. They need to learn by experience
Of course negotiate. I said do your homework and make slightly insulting offers. But do it properly. If you think you are in a flea market you are in the wrong place lol
before i even watch this episode , just seeing this title and remembering your destroyed Rolex incident makes me laugh non stop. i not so free but heard from other you tubers that u have since removed that episode from channel archive.
Hi Bruce- went into a local AD this past week and used all of your negotiation strategies and tactics. Very respectful and the lowest the AD would go was 10% off for an Omega Aqua Terra. Any suggestions?
I think what people are missing is that it's a hot market for sellers because of the pandemic created prices, i.e. stocks and real estate equity is up and many have money to invest especially on items that store or grow value on their investment dollars, until that (inflation) changes, what Bruce is saying is your also wasting YOUR own time! What good does it do ANYONE to pretend you are ready to buy when you are actually not? Every single point is valid. As an example, if you're not ready for a white Daytona Panda, buy a Tudor Chrono and LOVE it just as much...it's YOUR watch to love and it'll do well on value.
I disagree on the US shipping only part. In my experience, people only write that because it’s more convenient. But if you offer them a good price and terms, they could turn around and still ship internationally. It’s like Arnold Schwarzenegger says “break the rules, not the law”.
Right off the bat, you mention two behaviors that could reflect poorly on you (in the eyes of the seller). Well… so what? If they decide to be offended, then that’s on them.
I buy most of my watches with 0.% interest and invest the cash elsewhere and I always ask what is the best price they can sell for and I have successfully purchased all my watches brand new from AD's with discounts or extras thrown in.
I dont disagree with everything you said but there is a world of difference between dealing with a private seller on a market place and high street AD's which are usually part of a large corporate chains. Don't waste a private sellers time with stupid questions, unreasonable offers etc.. , the flip side is as a private seller is to make the advert as clear as possiple to answer all the usual questions so they dont need asking. For dealing with AD's all you need to do is be courteous to the sales staff, a good idea is too visit an AD on a weekday when it is less busy. As a salesperson they should be able to judge the buyers from the tire-kickers. Make sure you are knowledable but not a smart arse, remember they have hundreds of different watches in the shop and may not get everything right.
Great advice and a nice video. I just bought my first luxury watch, GS “Snowflake” and love it. These are in such short supply and the AD was great in keeping me informed when it would come in, held in back for me, helped me compare to other GS, etc. I did my homework and I did not even try to negotiate. Maybe on the future for something less scarce, but not this. Agree? That said, what was that list of “standard” popular watches you mentioned. Seems like some interesting options there.
Tbh I totally agree on finance but I'll say I work hard for my money so I will absolutely work to understand what deal I can get. I walked away from an AD as they couldn't offer me a discount which another could. My view is 10% on any luxury watch is well worth getting. I'll always negotiate but in the right way.
Of course always negotiate. I'm honestly surprised reading these comments. I said do your homework and make slightly offensive offers. I didn't say always buy what it offered to you lol
Agreed on all counts. Personally, I like to be a repeat client with ADs and establish a good friendly business relationship, and find ADs who are also fellow enthusiasts. I'm not trying to drive the hardest possible bargain, but I want a discount that shows mutual respect. So typically I'll do enough research on a piece to know the ins and outs and try to demonstrate that, then ask what they can do and accept a reasonable price. If an AD quotes me the sticker I just say come on no collector pays retail, let's be real, and usually move on. I like doing business with fellow enthusiasts as it's usually a lot easier to just have straight talk and get a discount that works for both of us.
I love it! You get it. Excellent comment. I would add for those noobs who will never plan to buy another luxury watch, I guess it doesn't matter if you make mistakes.
Thanks Bruce. Prior to the helpful video I deluded myself into thinking I scored a 5/5 - for buying sophistication. Thanks to your valuable advice I now realise I was only 2/5.
I enjoy your videos but disagree with the finance part, I have a family to provide for and for a little bit of money each month I can really enjoy my hobby. 0% no brainer
Don’t pay scalper prices. There’s so many watches to choose from, and they are all unnecessary anyway, so don’t be stupid ! Doing it will guarantee tomorrow you’ll pay more, and then more, and then more.
I noticed with gray market dealers how long it takes before shipping. If they had a watch, it should ship in 3-4 days. That's why I'm hesitant to buy from one. I disagree about financing at zero percent. Free money is free money.
Hi Bruce, love your channel. I am looking to purchase the Omega Aqua Terra World Timer, from local Omega Boutique. Owned various Omegas, Rolex, IWC, Tudor and JLC. But only have one watch now JLC Master Ultra Thin. What are your thoughts on Omega WT still? I liked your video review on it by the way. Many thanks Nandu
Hey Bruce! I remember you did a similar theme with a Rolex video a while back. I don't mean to blue the air up but f@ck em! It's their job. I understand people not wasting your time and your contacts time but AD'S chose the job and so should do their job. It's like an Emergency Department doctor picking which patient to treat based on their preferences rather than triage. It's like joining the Army then complaining about stress and Sargent yelling at you. Sympathy for the Devil? :-) Love the channel, keep up the good work 👏
I think you missed the point man. I didn't say don't negotiate. I said don't do it under a false pretense. Don't act like you are ready when you aren't. There is a difference in leading a seller on vs doing your homework. I think you should try to have proper decorum when shopping for luxury products
I think if the seller in the listing said US, it worth a try to ask for international shipping, may be he open to it and have one or two issues that can be solved easily Other than that, I agree with everything else
Hiya and just my observation on that Tudor case.The side profile on your wrist roll showed a very slab sided and very flat case with very little lug turn.My only comparrison would be a one size fits all suit from Primark to a tailored suit from a high end tailor.Not what I would expect for that cash in the luxury market.Seiko make much sexier profiles as do many others.Great example take a Rolex Sub against a Daytona.One profile is pig ugly the other just perfect.Just my thoughts thats all.
Timely video for me. I’m turning 40 in Feb and I have been saving for years to pick up my first luxury. Decided on an Aqua Terra. Tried on both sizes, loved them both! (Green, white, blue, 38 or 41mm?! 🤯) When I finally make the purchase your advice is basically, don’t be a jacka$$! Got it lol 👍
Hey Bruce! Really enjoying all the content you put out! One question I had for you, as a family man and a content creator on UA-cam, what is your main career? Sometimes it’s hard to remember that UA-camrs have lives outside of the internet 😂 all the best to you and your family!
@@BruceWilliams Incredible! Interesting career that I would think meshes well with watches. With the engineering and architecture of the movements and all! Thank you for reply! :)
Bruce, I have to disagree with you on a few of your points. Anybody can walk into an AD and pay full retail for a watch. This is exactly what the ADs want.
@@BruceWilliams - Like I said, walk into an AD and kiss the ring. Not doing it. Nothing is worth the ass kissing that goes on with these ADs to purchase one of these hard to get watches. If you have to have one, do what you have to do to get it. Just not for me.
@@Supercruze I don't do it either any of the rolexes I've bought over the years. It's too bad so many people equate being polite to kissing a ring. Sounds like an entitlement complex
@@BruceWilliams - Bruce, it is great you can develop a nice relationship with your ADs and I am all for that. Good things come to nice people. What bugs me is this thought that I have to buy several watches from an AD before they would consider selling me a particular watch. This picking and choosing who to sell watches to is just not right. If you are on a waiting list, so be it. First come, first serve. I know a local Rolex dealer here in the Wash DC area and I believe they have a list for Daytonas and when one comes in they start at the head of the list and go own the list until someone is prepared to step up and purchase. That is fine by me.
Great list of advice. The no trades thing gets me every damn time 🤦🏻♂️ And the negotiating before you’re ready to buy KILLS ME happens a lot in the knife community when I’m selling also 🙄
0% credit deals allow you to invest the full amount and receive a de facto discount in the form of equity growth. I don't see that as fiscally irresponsible; quite the opposite.
@@BruceWilliams I do, but it's easy to throw the $10k or whatever into an index fund and save on the asking price. 7-10% growth per year is normal and, with compounding, could save people 30-50% over the standard 4 year term. Seems pretty responsible to me 🙂
I wonder how many people have watched your videos and maxed out a credit card, or spent their rent money on a watch? It is sad, but I have seen people do this with sneakers, so I am sure there are many watch addicts doing the same.
To all the wise guys saying Bruce is overpaying or making the sellers life easier, the fact that we are spending money on luxury mechanical watches is already an utter non-sense. Get what you want with dignity or not. I think they are good advices to keep in mind at least.
Wise words Bruce...I work in retail (vape shop) & I've experienced some of the annoyances you mentioned many times, & it's so frustrating and certainly doesn't make the vendor likely to go the extra mile... Good advice, Cheers mate 👍👍
Lol no but seriously. I don't mind cutting to the chase when dealing with my guy who I'm good friends with. If I were a first time buyer with a stranger... Heck no I wouldn't lead off with that lol
The Jomashop leverage, so annoying haha I had a guy just last week that literally opened with "What is your best price", followed by the "Jomashop sells it for", followed by "do you accept postdated cheques". I should send your video LOL
Never buy a watch and think it’s a real estate investment or a hit stock, buy it to wear it or else this is not the hobby you should be in (treating watch as in investment that is).
I'm currently paying off 2 loans that I contracted last year for two gorgeos luxury watches and, hey, I'm not complaining. In fact, I tried saving money, but either I was too impatient to wait for the money to be complete or I saw a pair of cool sneakers behind the shop window and ended up spending my saving money. So, on the contrary, if you just know you won't be able to put the same amount of money aside and save money for your dream watch each month, just get a reasonable amount of loan and you're ready to go. At least then you know you have reason to put money aside :D
Customer used to be always right. Modern Times: "You'll spend your money here and please, no questions." This imposition in the name of image sake sounds like a pretty cheap form of dominance. Business has always been defined by negotiation. Not in this scenario. Still like the channel though.
Lol I think you missed the point here. I never said don't negotiate. I said the opposite. Do it with etiquette as an informed buyer having done your homework. It will help you get a better price, have a better experience, and set you up in the future should you want another luxury watch.
There are idiots trying to negotiate a price and requesting for extra time until their pay day. When the day comes, they would tell you they have bought another watch. It does really show the real character trait of a person.
Things NOT to do when selling a luxury watch - put your customers on non-existent waitlist
I dont do wait lists full stop. I only buy watches I dont have to wait for.
Back then the sellers used to thank the customers for buying stuff from then, now the buyer is thanking the sellers for selling the stuff to them. Crazy.
Ive always been thanked for my patronage whether it's a Seiko or a Rolex. Handwritten thank you cards are great to receive in the mail. I reciprocate when appropriate.
These are what I recommend
1) don’t finance with money you don’t have
2) buy what YOU like
3) ask for discounts/deals
4) begin with entry level and work your way up, if you wish
5) visit brick & mortar ADs to try on different pieces and establish rapport
6) know what you are buying (movement, functions, size, etc.)
7) have fun and enjoy the chase - remember it’s not a race
After seeing your first two tips I can only assume that you've overpaid for many of your watches! But seriously, it's not about not doing those things, it's about how you approach them. Talk to your AD and be honest, humble and realistic. As my Dad always said, "Don't ask, don't get".
The opposite. I've gotten incredible deals on all of my watches. Save for Rolex and VC which I paid retail for. It's about negotiating with etiquette and not like a noob.
@@BruceWilliams Yeah, I was only half joking. Last Rolex I bought I asked for 10% off and we both had a little chuckle then carried on with the sale.
Bruce you are representing the AD in this video, but honestly these points are really to the new buyers into the hobby - people walk into the boutique for the first time.
Absolutely this should be watched by the first time or new luxury buyer. Doesn't matter if it is AD, dealer, or private party like I mention in the beginning
I understand your point of trying to get people to use some etiquette when dealing with sales people, but what’s the deal with telling everyone basically not to negotiate? And why does a customer have to be “vetted” by a salesperson?
Lol what video did you watch? I specifically said do your homework and make a slightly insulting offer. Always negotiate. But trying to use the grey market as a bargaining ploy is just dumb.
About being vetted- some models warrant that. Good ADs want the hottest of hot models going to good non flipper clients. I wouldn't sell a Daytona to a Joe Schmoe walk in
I agree with everything said with exception of strategically using Jomashop in some serious negotiations. Having said that, Ive never asked an AD to match a Joma price. For watches that I know can be fairly well discounted, I have explained to ADs (as respectfully as possible) that the question is: Can we agree on a price that would dissuade me from taking the Joma risk? (No factory warranty and questionable customer service if there was an issue with the watch). I have found that when approached in that way (again, for watches that can be well discounted), it has helped me get that 20-25% discount that I try to target on certain brands. For brands that I know discounts are difficult to come by, I would never bring up Joma. I've also found that if you do try to use Joma in negotiations, it's always best to be straight forward and honest about what Joma's drawbacks are to let your sales person know you aren't just "kicking tires".
Agreed. Particularly when it comes to watches with off-the-shelf movements, well-known grey market is not a bad move. The only way Joma has burned me is by letting me buy a watch that is stated as "in stock" and then a few weeks later it's suddenly not known when they'll be getting it back in. They've always accepted any returns without issue, the most expensive being a Pelagos. They're not always great to deal with, but they've been, at least, adequate, imo. If you're buying a high-horology piece or a newer watch with a manufacturer caliber, that's a solid line of demarcation where I'd really stick to the AD. But, if for whatever reason, you get stuck with a malfunctioning ETA or Sellita, you're generally not taking a crushing loss to repair it. Same goes with about any Seiko under $1,000USD - The discount from ebay or grey market is huge and if, by chance, you're burned (though PayPal, eBay and such protect you also) a repair or replacement is still probably going to land you under the msrp.
There is a difference between tact and toolishness. Most noobs haven't had the grey market experience yet either. It's all about learning and improving your knowledge and etiquette
I'm surprised Bruce. It seems (with points 1 and 2) like you are representing the ADs rather than your fellow watch enthusiasts.
Oh definitely not. Quite the opposite. Watch enthusiasts need to learn helpful etiquette when dealing for luxury goods. If you think it's an enthusiast versus ad scenario is shows you have the wrong mindset. ADs want to sell watches and we want to buy them. It shouldn't be at odds lol
Never buy what is trending because its the hype, buy what you love and will enjoy more. Onlt buy buy you can afford and when you are ready. Thanks Bruce for the video 👍
Since when did dealing with sellers become like walking on thin ice?? You are wrong on the financing the watch thing, it's not irresponsible if you're getting an interest free deal. Everything gets financed in this world, we're not drug Lords walking around with wads of cash in our pockets.
I never walk on thin ice, and if that's the way you feel when buying a watch you are doing it wrong. Lastly if you can't afford to pay outright for the watch. You can't afford the watch. Period. Keep as little debt in your life as possible. A modest home... Maybe a reasonable loan if you completed higher education. Pay them off as soon as possible. Live free
Agree with nearly everything apart from the finance. Nothing wrong with finance, in fact it’s better, as long as you can pay back in full.
Things NOT to do when going to a concert - shout “nice Daytona!” at the singer
Touche!
I disagree with point #2, #3, and in part #4. There are hundreds of AD's online located across the country and locally that are competing for your business. It's not wrong to shop around for a good price. which leads to price negotiations. As a result of shopping around for a good reasonable price, you're going to have to decline a few offers from AD's which will lead to violating rule #4. Although you are ready to make the purchase, you will end up disappointing a few AD's and waste their time, which may make it seem like you aren't ready to them. Finally - I don't see an issue with financing a watch if your able to secure zero to minimal interest that you can afford and can financially make the payments on time. Why not take advantage of cheap cost of capital where you can.
I think you missed the point Harry. I didn't say don't negotiate. I said make informed and slightly insulting offers. Do your home work and improve your etiquette. It will help you get better pricing. I also never said don't turn down offers. I said negotiate in good faith when you are actually able to buy. If you're just tire kicking be upfront about it
I agree. Always negotiate in good faith and always be up front.
1. Know which watch you want to buy in advance.
2. Research the max % discount available.
3. Call up/visit your local ADs and tell them “I am looking to buy today, no finance needed, and I’ve been offered X% discount elsewhere. Could you match that deal today?”
99% this always works if they have the watch in stock - they’ll never turn down a quick and easy cash sale in my experience.
Have to be ready to walk away tho, cause if they call your bluff and they don't offer to match the discount, then you're not likely to have anymore leverage
Good example of an entitled attitude!
In High demand watches Bruce's advice is solid: No need to insult seller with too low offer. However In rare and hard- to-sell watches low ball offers are often valid. Potential buyers are rare and sales times are long.
Great point!
Wow! Alright, everyone! Now we know what to avoid doing if we don't want Bruce to look poorly upon us! ...I think I even felt the community breathe a collective sigh of releif.
Lol I will just judge you silently then 😈
not sure if you are informing or dumbing down the viewer
I do believe, as a long time viewer, that BW does not act this way. These tips may seem obvious to some like you and me, but everyone is liable to make basic mistakes when entering a new hobby, or any activity.
I hate haggling, I dont know how to do it properly. Do you suggest X % and expect negotiating down to a lower %? Whats the best way to negotiate without being insulting towards an AD?
I go for..
"Are you able to move on the price?" (that way you find out whether you need to speak to a manager or not. If they are able to offer a discount they will say yes or no - then you know you are into negotiation)
The next step I go for is to say "I'm aware that discounts of x% is available on this watch" (shows you did your research) "what would you be able to do"?
Usually works for me - but like Bruce says, be willing to hand over your card
It just depends on the brand and watch. Come in 5 percent lower than what a good (for the buyer) price would be and negotiate up to that price. Be prepared to walk away if the seller won't meet you. Just make sure you do your homework on what those percentages should be on the watch you are interested in.
I head the “never finance a watch” advice all the time. But if you have the cash to back it, and you get the 0% interest Bruce mentioned, then you have to do the math of returns on that money not spent upfront over the terms of the financing. It would be stupid not to.
If you truly have the cash why fiance? That makes no sense to me. Pay up and enjoy. Debt is stupid
@@BruceWilliams because the investment returns in the cash not spent, until it is, could be meaningful. “Cash in hand” is better than not. Say you want a $10,000 watch and you finance it. ~$420/month for 24 months. Now invest the “back half” $5000. An average index return brings you back ~$300. And that’s a super simple version. You could shift the amounts/times around more optimally.
@@Justlaxin13 you should be investing with money not related to silly luxury watches. Keep your toys separate from your portfolio. Never go into debt for dumb stuff
@@BruceWilliams consider my example. Now consider the person buying or financing said $10,000 watch has $1 million in their brokerage and $1 million in savings (for the sake of argument). Why would they person not want another “free” $300 for the harmless cost of that $10k in dept, decreeing over 2 years?
@@Justlaxin13 I did, and if you have a million in savings spending 10k at once should make no difference than spending it over time. Most people financing watches aren't millionaires. They are living paycheck to paycheck on borrowed money. The more debt is normalized the worse our society becomes
Don't trust Jomashop's pricing unless it says "in stock, ready to ship." Anything else and they are going to try to find the watch after you pay them and refund you money when/if they can't find it at the price they want.
I would never play the grey market roulette wheel on a luxury purchase. I had enough issues in the past with affordbales and mid level purchases lol
90% of ppl can’t afford or let got $2k cash for a watch and not return it. It’s all credit cards. I almost did that. But paying cash. Really makes you think what is realistically affordable. And then, you see better watches for less and very reliable or same movement in the $6k watches. Very harder to let go of cash in hand then credit. I went from almost charging for an omega. Then cash hammy. And dont regret that at all.
You forgot one: If you’re not really interested in the watch the AD is calling you about..pass on it so that the next guy has a chance at owning his grail watch🤣 #letsworktogether
100 percent!!! Only but what you really want. Period
Grandpah thought me if you can't buy three of them you can't afford one
your grandpa gave you a priceless piece of advice.
Your grandpa should do a video. Great, great advice!
@@stephen9609 If I could afford to buy 3 stephens I wouldn't buy any stephen at all because hatreful out of context comments appear out of nowhere and for free, loads of haters in the market, the supply is huge and demand is zero. A safe place for your family to live and raise your kids cannot be compared to a wristwatch, unless you're a super millionaire, are you? if so, in need of a friend?
@@stephen9609 If a person spends his entire life saving hard-earned money to buy a luxury watch, he needs to review his priorities and probably seek mental help.
This guy…🤦♂️ because that’s how people buy houses, with cash. I’m long grandpa’s advise 👍; short @Stephen’s 👎.
I recently purchased a lightly used Timex M79 NN07 Edition, off of eBay. The market is all over the place for this watch, since only 777 were made. I've seen 390 to almost 1k for this watch. The buyer of my watch, was asking a buy it now of 350 which was a good deal. But patience pays off. No one was taking it for 350. I sent him a message, telling him. I'm willing to pay 250 ASAP, and to send me the offer. Replied back with 280, so got him to drop it by $70 already. So he was looking to really unload the watch. I replied back, telling him to keep me in mind. If he's willing to take 250 for it. Next reply was, ok 250 and sent me the offer. Great looking watch, but wasn't going pay outrageous asking prices, just because it's a limited edition Timex. Sometimes you gotta walk away.
The mark up on these watches is ridiculous. You can get/close to grey market quite easily.
I bought a planet ocean by saying I will buy it from an airport tax free unless you can match the sale. 2 dealers came close and 1 matched it.
3 calls, 20% off, done.
Absolutely, which makes me cringe when people rush to the grey market.
Not sure I would totally agree on the Joma Card. I often see private sellers advertising watches well above Joma prices. If they are actual watch community people, I don't think there is anything wrong with pointing out that their price is simply not reflective of the reality of the market. It is not like they would be unaware of grey market. I've bought a number of watches from Joma without issue, something I cannot say for my private buys. Certainly far less risk than buying privately.
If you are are shopping for a watch listed well above the going rate you are shopping at the wrong place. Pointing out the GM will likely not do anything for those types of sellers. They need to learn by experience
Thank you😂. I remember selling back in the TGV days and getting hit with 10+ messages asking for my best price🙃
Lol it's the worst
I have a few tudors and grand seiko I bought from ad and want to know the best place to sell them, they are all new. Can you tell me..
Honestly a lot of the secondhand dealers are making money hand over fist and I think haggling with them is not such a bad idea.
Of course negotiate. I said do your homework and make slightly insulting offers. But do it properly. If you think you are in a flea market you are in the wrong place lol
before i even watch this episode , just seeing this title and remembering your destroyed Rolex incident makes me laugh non stop. i not so free but heard from other you tubers that u have since removed that episode from channel archive.
I've seen that video. He cries and the commenters try to chip in to buy him a new Rolex.
Hi Bruce- went into a local AD this past week and used all of your negotiation strategies and tactics. Very respectful and the lowest the AD would go was 10% off for an Omega Aqua Terra. Any suggestions?
I think what people are missing is that it's a hot market for sellers because of the pandemic created prices, i.e. stocks and real estate equity is up and many have money to invest especially on items that store or grow value on their investment dollars, until that (inflation) changes, what Bruce is saying is your also wasting YOUR own time! What good does it do ANYONE to pretend you are ready to buy when you are actually not? Every single point is valid. As an example, if you're not ready for a white Daytona Panda, buy a Tudor Chrono and LOVE it just as much...it's YOUR watch to love and it'll do well on value.
Bruce, thank you for laying it down like it is! I appreciate your input and total honesty! Love the channel!
I thought this video was going to be clickbait, but no, this is great advice. Totally agree!
I try to keep the videos substantive. But a little clickbaity title does increase the views and my exposure.
Reading needs to be stressed in school.
All good points Bruce.
Thanks for the video!
I disagree on the US shipping only part. In my experience, people only write that because it’s more convenient. But if you offer them a good price and terms, they could turn around and still ship internationally. It’s like Arnold Schwarzenegger says “break the rules, not the law”.
Truth. I'm in Canada and I am about 50/50 when convincing CONUS only sellers to ship north of the border. Never hurts to ask.
You're a great guy for reaching out to try to find prices for your viewers. Here's a like and sub.
All good points. Always negotiate from a position of strength and in good faith.
Since what time it is the customer who has to care about AD’s satisfaction and a sales person emotional comfort?!
Thanks for helping me out! Let me talk to my wife 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Great advice
Right off the bat, you mention two behaviors that could reflect poorly on you (in the eyes of the seller). Well… so what? If they decide to be offended, then that’s on them.
Sure act like a noob if you want. Just don't expect the best price
I buy most of my watches with 0.% interest and invest the cash elsewhere and I always ask what is the best price they can sell for and I have successfully purchased all my watches brand new from AD's with discounts or extras thrown in.
I dont disagree with everything you said but there is a world of difference between dealing with a private seller on a market place and high street AD's which are usually part of a large corporate chains. Don't waste a private sellers time with stupid questions, unreasonable offers etc.. , the flip side is as a private seller is to make the advert as clear as possiple to answer all the usual questions so they dont need asking.
For dealing with AD's all you need to do is be courteous to the sales staff, a good idea is too visit an AD on a weekday when it is less busy. As a salesperson they should be able to judge the buyers from the tire-kickers. Make sure you are knowledable but not a smart arse, remember they have hundreds of different watches in the shop and may not get everything right.
Excellent comment thank you!
Great advice and a nice video. I just bought my first luxury watch, GS “Snowflake” and love it. These are in such short supply and the AD was great in keeping me informed when it would come in, held in back for me, helped me compare to other GS, etc. I did my homework and I did not even try to negotiate. Maybe on the future for something less scarce, but not this. Agree?
That said, what was that list of “standard” popular watches you mentioned. Seems like some interesting options there.
Tbh I totally agree on finance but I'll say I work hard for my money so I will absolutely work to understand what deal I can get. I walked away from an AD as they couldn't offer me a discount which another could. My view is 10% on any luxury watch is well worth getting. I'll always negotiate but in the right way.
Of course always negotiate. I'm honestly surprised reading these comments. I said do your homework and make slightly offensive offers. I didn't say always buy what it offered to you lol
Agreed on all counts. Personally, I like to be a repeat client with ADs and establish a good friendly business relationship, and find ADs who are also fellow enthusiasts. I'm not trying to drive the hardest possible bargain, but I want a discount that shows mutual respect. So typically I'll do enough research on a piece to know the ins and outs and try to demonstrate that, then ask what they can do and accept a reasonable price. If an AD quotes me the sticker I just say come on no collector pays retail, let's be real, and usually move on. I like doing business with fellow enthusiasts as it's usually a lot easier to just have straight talk and get a discount that works for both of us.
I love it! You get it. Excellent comment. I would add for those noobs who will never plan to buy another luxury watch, I guess it doesn't matter if you make mistakes.
Hahah, it’s not easy trying to sell your stuff, is it, Bruce. I love your spontaneity and rant
Thanks Bruce. Prior to the helpful video I deluded myself into thinking I scored a 5/5 - for buying sophistication. Thanks to your valuable advice I now realise I was only 2/5.
Lol 😂 I've made all the mistakes in the video myself
I enjoy your videos but disagree with the finance part, I have a family to provide for and for a little bit of money each month I can really enjoy my hobby. 0% no brainer
With your family in mind, don't saddle yourself with debt for something silly although fun like a watch.
Interesting watch winder in this video. What is the make/model of that one?
Very good advice Bruce 👍🙂, but I weckon buying or selling is depends on what emotional of both parties in that moment to making the deal.
Yes avoid Rolex and Tudor like the plague!
Great video, Bruce! Now I know who to ask when I am ready to buy that Seamaster. 😎
Don’t pay scalper prices. There’s so many watches to choose from, and they are all unnecessary anyway, so don’t be stupid ! Doing it will guarantee tomorrow you’ll pay more, and then more, and then more.
I noticed with gray market dealers how long it takes before shipping. If they had a watch, it should ship in 3-4 days. That's why I'm hesitant to buy from one. I disagree about financing at zero percent. Free money is free money.
Debt is never free money
@@BruceWilliams I know what you mean. The interest is paid by someone else. Fortunately not by me.
Hi Bruce, love your channel. I am
looking to purchase the Omega Aqua Terra World Timer, from local Omega Boutique. Owned various Omegas, Rolex, IWC, Tudor and JLC. But only have one watch now JLC Master Ultra Thin. What are your thoughts on Omega WT still? I liked your video review on it by the way.
Many thanks Nandu
Love it! Heck of a watch. One of omegas best
Hey Bruce! I remember you did a similar theme with a Rolex video a while back. I don't mean to blue the air up but f@ck em! It's their job. I understand people not wasting your time and your contacts time but AD'S chose the job and so should do their job. It's like an Emergency Department doctor picking which patient to treat based on their preferences rather than triage. It's like joining the Army then complaining about stress and Sargent yelling at you. Sympathy for the Devil? :-) Love the channel, keep up the good work 👏
I think you missed the point man. I didn't say don't negotiate. I said don't do it under a false pretense. Don't act like you are ready when you aren't. There is a difference in leading a seller on vs doing your homework. I think you should try to have proper decorum when shopping for luxury products
Solid, sound advice from a guy who knows 👌 Thanks Bruce
Very helpful as I consider my next luxury or pair of mid-levels. Thanks!
I think if the seller in the listing said US, it worth a try to ask for international shipping, may be he open to it and have one or two issues that can be solved easily
Other than that, I agree with everything else
Hiya and just my observation on that Tudor case.The side profile on your wrist roll showed a very slab sided and very flat case with very little lug turn.My only comparrison would be a one size fits all suit from Primark to a tailored suit from a high end tailor.Not what I would expect for that cash in the luxury market.Seiko make much sexier profiles as do many others.Great example take a Rolex Sub against a Daytona.One profile is pig ugly the other just perfect.Just my thoughts thats all.
It's a chunky tool watch brotha. Lol not meant to be worn with a suit
Your Tudor is stunning, great purchase, and not very popular
Yes...READ THE LISTING !!
Timely video for me. I’m turning 40 in Feb and I have been saving for years to pick up my first luxury. Decided on an Aqua Terra. Tried on both sizes, loved them both! (Green, white, blue, 38 or 41mm?! 🤯) When I finally make the purchase your advice is basically, don’t be a jacka$$! Got it lol 👍
Essentially YES and it's surprising at how many watch nuts can't do it lol
You know that every two weeks I thank my employer for paying me for the job I'm doing for them?!
Lol you are a weird individual
@@BruceWilliams Weird? No! Upfront, in your face and honest? Yes!
@9:30 ‘ if you don’t have purchase history’. Yeah what if? Godforbid you don’t have a purchase history and you want to buy a watch. Jeeezzzzz.
I hate sales tax!
Hey Bruce! Really enjoying all the content you put out! One question I had for you, as a family man and a content creator on UA-cam, what is your main career? Sometimes it’s hard to remember that UA-camrs have lives outside of the internet 😂 all the best to you and your family!
I am in pre-visualization. I create 3d architectural renderings of buildings before they are built. Cheers!
@@BruceWilliams Incredible! Interesting career that I would think meshes well with watches. With the engineering and architecture of the movements and all! Thank you for reply! :)
You should always get a discount!
Awesome video Bruce!
Bruce, I have to disagree with you on a few of your points. Anybody can walk into an AD and pay full retail for a watch. This is exactly what the ADs want.
You can pay sure, but you're probably gonna be on some wait list behind a line of "good" customers.
Many have the ability to pay. Doesn't mean they are getting a Daytona or a Nautilus when they walk in an AD haha
@@BruceWilliams - Like I said, walk into an AD and kiss the ring. Not doing it. Nothing is worth the ass kissing that goes on with these ADs to purchase one of these hard to get watches. If you have to have one, do what you have to do to get it. Just not for me.
@@Supercruze I don't do it either any of the rolexes I've bought over the years. It's too bad so many people equate being polite to kissing a ring. Sounds like an entitlement complex
@@BruceWilliams - Bruce, it is great you can develop a nice relationship with your ADs and I am all for that. Good things come to nice people. What bugs me is this thought that I have to buy several watches from an AD before they would consider selling me a particular watch. This picking and choosing who to sell watches to is just not right. If you are on a waiting list, so be it. First come, first serve. I know a local Rolex dealer here in the Wash DC area and I believe they have a list for Daytonas and when one comes in they start at the head of the list and go own the list until someone is prepared to step up and purchase. That is fine by me.
Never bought from an AD, never will.
You win the never bought a watch from an AD award. Congratsb
Are you an authorized dealer on the side or something? 🤭
Nope lol are you a grey market head hunter on the side?
Great list of advice. The no trades thing gets me every damn time 🤦🏻♂️
And the negotiating before you’re ready to buy KILLS ME happens a lot in the knife community when I’m selling also 🙄
If you a watch guy never buy cheap Japanese wood print...
Someone is tired of tire kickers...
0% credit deals allow you to invest the full amount and receive a de facto discount in the form of equity growth. I don't see that as fiscally irresponsible; quite the opposite.
Why not invest separate from your silly watch money. People should be doing that anyway. Keep your portfolio separate from your watches
@@BruceWilliams I do, but it's easy to throw the $10k or whatever into an index fund and save on the asking price. 7-10% growth per year is normal and, with compounding, could save people 30-50% over the standard 4 year term. Seems pretty responsible to me 🙂
I wonder how many people have watched your videos and maxed out a credit card, or spent their rent money on a watch? It is sad, but I have seen people do this with sneakers, so I am sure there are many watch addicts doing the same.
I really hope that has not happened. Luxury junk is not worth getting into debt over
To all the wise guys saying Bruce is overpaying or making the sellers life easier, the fact that we are spending money on luxury mechanical watches is already an utter non-sense. Get what you want with dignity or not. I think they are good advices to keep in mind at least.
People that think I overpay make me laugh
Some cheapskate tactics are beyond obnoxious
Wise words Bruce...I work in retail (vape shop) & I've experienced some of the annoyances you mentioned many times, & it's so frustrating and certainly doesn't make the vendor likely to go the extra mile...
Good advice, Cheers mate 👍👍
“Tip #2: don’t lead with what’s your best price…”
Bruce, at the AD for a viewer: “What’s the best realistic discount you can do…?” 😂
Rules for thee but not for me 😜
Lol no but seriously. I don't mind cutting to the chase when dealing with my guy who I'm good friends with. If I were a first time buyer with a stranger... Heck no I wouldn't lead off with that lol
@@BruceWilliams Oh man! I love that. I'm definitely using that one with my kids lol.
All valid points. Don't be a tool!
Essentially that's what it comes down to!
The Jomashop leverage, so annoying haha I had a guy just last week that literally opened with "What is your best price", followed by the "Jomashop sells it for", followed by "do you accept postdated cheques". I should send your video LOL
Sure, you can accept his postdated cheques if he can accept your postdated stock. He can always collect the stock after the cheque is cleared.
@@jamess8175 I agree, 100%.
The triple threat lol. The perfect blend of the classic noob
Never buy a watch and think it’s a real estate investment or a hit stock, buy it to wear it or else this is not the hobby you should be in (treating watch as in investment that is).
Agree watches are not assets!
I'm currently paying off 2 loans that I contracted last year for two gorgeos luxury watches and, hey, I'm not complaining. In fact, I tried saving money, but either I was too impatient to wait for the money to be complete or I saw a pair of cool sneakers behind the shop window and ended up spending my saving money. So, on the contrary, if you just know you won't be able to put the same amount of money aside and save money for your dream watch each month, just get a reasonable amount of loan and you're ready to go. At least then you know you have reason to put money aside :D
I’t’s glad to see you wear Tudor Royal as I’m so into this watch these days :) Thank you for the video as always!
Hey Bruce, you’re in Salt Lake?!
Yes, love it here in Utah
@@BruceWilliams me too! Cheers!
Customer used to be always right. Modern Times: "You'll spend your money here and please, no questions." This imposition in the name of image sake sounds like a pretty cheap form of dominance. Business has always been defined by negotiation. Not in this scenario. Still like the channel though.
Lol I think you missed the point here. I never said don't negotiate. I said the opposite. Do it with etiquette as an informed buyer having done your homework. It will help you get a better price, have a better experience, and set you up in the future should you want another luxury watch.
@@BruceWilliams Thanks for clarifying that. The impression I had was a hopeless scenario for negotiation. Glad is not what I thought.
Excellent advice, Bruce.
STOP buying a Pelagos 🤣
There are idiots trying to negotiate a price and requesting for extra time until their pay day. When the day comes, they would tell you they have bought another watch. It does really show the real character trait of a person.
100
Great advice!
Do Do
I try to make it fun for you guys 💩
Second to first! Oh what a feeling!
Don’t agree with most of this video to be honest. Lots of it is poor advice.
Great video!!!
There is also that common question from first-time buyers that bores serious sellers - Is this watch really original?
Lol so true!!
I agree with everything and I’m guilty of doing half of them lol
Oh I've done all of them lol. I've learned from my mistakes