The WORST Nen Category for Combat - Hunter X Hunter
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- Опубліковано 24 чер 2024
- In this video, I provide a break-down of the two potential worst attunable nen categories for combat and ask for your input to finally put this matter to rest.
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Something i've noticed is that the closer a nen category is from specialization, the more reliant they are on conditions to be viable on direct combat.
Not really the condition are just related to the complexity and strength of the ability, actually exept the bangygum of hisoka I feel like every ability in the verse so far has some kind of restriction ( even though it have it limitations too)
What the guy means is conditions start to play a bigger role and become more common as you work your way towards specialization
Conjuration and manipulation rely on conditions the most
@aceclover758 Hatsu creation for all nen types is just finding a good balance of utility, effectiveness, and cost. It's basically just "don't be broken" the power system so everyone is making conditions, Maybe Meruem could have if he tried, but most emitters can't just fire off tracking 1 hit kill nen bullets that go flying through their enemies' hearts automatically. Tracking is too strong an ability and doing it with that much power would be busted and require an insane level of nen that they probably don't have available. So they put conditions on it. OK so maybe instead of 1HKOing everyone they just lock onto 1 person and with as much power as they can put out in 1 go with their nen output. 1 shot per second would probably sting, 1 a minute would be strong, 1 shot a day would probably kill. Instead maybe make it harder to hit by removing tracking or maybe it's just harder to aim since instead of pointing and shooting in a straight line they have to serve it up and spike it like a volleyball. Even Jajanken is only as strong as it is because he stands still and telegraphs his move making it stronger than it would be if he wanted free movement or instant use abilities. Conjurors and manipulators just tend to get more unusual abilities so they make more unusual tradeoffs. Gon is making himself vulnerable for power, Kite is trading freedom of choice for it too, and the woman with kissing powers trades range and makes it harder to accomplish against an aggressive opponent in exchange for complete no strings control for 3 hours.
@@Josh-ee6hj Well yes. The genuine rule of NEn abilities is higher risks or harder activation requirements lead to stronger Hatsus, on top of the fact if said Hatsu uses Nen you are proficient with
Yes I think you could argue specialization is the conditions.
In my opinion the instant win ability available to manipulators gives it the edge over conjuration
Fair enough.
Conjuration can also have an insta-win condition if the ability is crafted that way. One could send people to a prison pocket dimension under certain conditions, or conjure objects with unique abilities that incapacitate opponents in unique ways like shrinking someone(like Owl the shadow beast does). Even things like the Bomber's bomb can be an insta-win to some degree.
@@saparapatepeteOne idea I dont see talked about alot is that conjuration can do stuff like turn the user into a vehicle, so why cant you have something like the ability to turn all liquid in a vessel into wine and use it for a touch of death attack like the manipulators often do?
Since there have never been a manipulation ability that works on an already fully manipulated target, how would instant win abilities interact with fully transformed (by conjuration, do we have a better term for this than conjured or transformed?) bodies?
Chrollo vs Hisoka had an ability that didn't work on corpses but did on copies of them because the user would consider them to be "puppets" iirc.
If a conjurer had an ability that turned their entire body into a metallic "puppet" controlled by their mind wouldn't that make them immune to manipulation abilities with restrictions like that they only work on "creatures" or "things not made of nen"?
@@endlesstrash4718 Or something like Midas's touch turning people into gold statues
I think conjuration and manipulation might actually have the highest potential in what they can do with their hatsu, it’s just the other categories are much easier to utilize for combat given they’re a little more direct.
Enchantment and specialist are better for combat though
@@Januaryof28 Are they? Specialists can be anything and we've seen plenty that have no real combat application like Neon. Enhancers, while being very well balanced, have limitations on how creative they can get, it makes them susceptible to both manipulation and conjuration, such as when Uvo got defeated by chain jail. I mean, look at Black Voice, if Shalnark meets his condition the fight is over even if he was fighting someone with significantly more aura. No one category reigns supreme, each has its own pros and cons.
@@SerasXHarkonnen chain jail is part specialist ability he can't use without emperor time. One of the princesses is a specialist idk how to spell his name. He has time travel. I just see them having the most potential as you get more Access to every category by default. Shelnark couldn't even beat Gon in a fight. Only normal humans get on shot by simple manipulation.
Emission >>> literally you can do a lot more than shooting bullets if You're creative enough
@@talhazubaer9108 yeah id imagine wall hacks are possible like if a hunter used en and detached it
My personaly head cannon as to why manipulators and conjurers can have specialist like abilities is that throuh restrictions and pledges they are able to slightly tap into specilization. The reason i think this is simple: if we take morel as an example he uses alot of transmutation for his abilities which just so happens to be his least favorable type. This makes sense since to use it he has placed multiple restrictions in place. But i want you to think about the mechanics of this- how does placing restrictions allow him to use transmutation like he owns it? Well my theory is that through restrictions he rases his affinity with transmutation but only for when the restrictions apply. This also nicely explanes shalnarks super sayan mode and kurapikas emeror time. So if thats how it works then why shouldnt conjurers and manipulators be able to tap into a little bit of specilazation through enough reatrictions since they are the closest to it.
Hmmmm, interesting. I never conceptualized resrictions, such as Morel's pipe enabling him to transmute aura into smoke, as directly boosting his Transmutation proficiency.
I think it makes sense to think of it in this way, but it needs to be said that would be a specific proficiency boost which would only apply to his aura to smoke transutation and then, smoke shaping.
@@theoverthinker348 My guess is it reduces the aura cost depending on how much of it is actual smoke and how much it is aura. Like if the thing he makes is 100% aura he doesnt get any cost reductions but if its like 50% smoke 50% aura then itll reduce the aura cost by 50%. Basicly it depends on how much of the smoke creation is supplemented with actual smoke to reduce the aura cost to make it. Like smoke technically is a physical thing a manipulator could control so it makes sense that somebody like Morel could incorporate it into his ability to make using transmutation more cost effective by supplementing some of the cost with real smoke
Good theory, the problem is that Morel for exemple hás 40% of transmutation, but a conjurer/manipulator has 0% of especialization. So there is not afinnity at all, you cant power up It with restrictions
@@kuriringdjdhc8352 0% isnt a absolute rule thou. It is stated that conjurers and manipulators have a chance to become specialists. Why couldnt they use a little bit of specilization if its necesary for the ability to work and there are enough restrictions and pledges.
Makes sense but moral seems more of a conjurer to me so here's another though What if the boost is still 80% for conjuring if you a manipulater and vice versa
I think the difference between the two comes down to manipulation having a lower floor but higher ceiling. There are more ways it can get stopped but it has the capacity for much more impactful effects if you can meet the conditions. So you have to decide if you value the consistency conjuration will give you over the power manipulation can bring.
Conjuration is a very interesting specialization because it is the most free form, excluding specialization of course. You can't look at the average conjurer and guess what they are going to do, between what they choose to conjure and what restrictions they place on themselves they can do just about anything. I think this also leads to one of its biggest weaknesses, if you try to focus on physical weapons you have to contend with enhancers beating you, and if you go with some kind of range option you have emitters to worry about. As a new conjurer you will likely have choice paralysis because there are so many options and so many ways to do it wrong, which I think makes is the "weakest" if considered in a vacuum, but also the most interesting.
Excellent point. I think I agree with everything apart from Manipulation having a higher skill ceiling perhaps.
It is worth pointing out, and it's something I wanted to do in the video proper but forgot, that Chrollo had hoped for a single conjured cloak would stall two top-tier nen users and assassins at bay during his battle with the Zoldycks.
Of course, since Zeno's a BAMF it didn't turn out that way, but the intention was there.
@@theoverthinker348 I think it works so much because it's both a bluff and a threat. You and your son are both very powerful assassins of a renowned and feared assassin family, and when your confront your target it only conjures one cloak. As an experienced nen user you know the danger a conjured object can oppose, and since they seemed so confident in it, it would be smarter to play it defensive and figure out what this cloak do, because it can't be just a cloak. it's like a guy not even looking at his cards at poker and pulled an All-in. The biggest bluff, which works even more on experienced players than newbies.
Very spot on for Conjuration. It may be the most difficult type to figure out a reliable ability for as well.
I think they have the highest potential for wierd effects though.
Honestly I’d like to see more manipulators utilize the “control object” part of manipulation. Like what if someone used some combo of emission and manipulation to control objects and people around them to some extent, kinda like psychic powers.
Yeah, so far we have seen really few, like that shadow beast that manipulated his hair, Kalluto that manipulates paper and Morel that manipulates smoke.
I agree like imagine a scientist who can manipulate anything they touch with their hand so long as they have an advanced understanding of its properties.
Yeah imagine becoming like an avatar character by bending the air or fire with nen.
@@crocoboi7936 fire might be situational unless you carry a torch, a lighter or something like that, but it would be a reallly cool manipulation
@@saparapatepete imagine someone manipulating the water in someone else’s body.
Enhancer: Balance, reliable on most situation + doesn't require the user to think much. Transmuter: Flexible, require the user to be good at deceiving/concealing critical information. Conjuror: The more knowledge you have the more flexible your ability become. Manipulator: Rely heavily on The User preparation in exchange for seemingly OTK ability. Emitter: Strongest at far range combat. Specialist: Joker wild card.
Conjuration is really hard to use effectively. The thing is that objects you summon with unique abilities are based on other forms of nen. If you make a flaming sword? the flame is based on Transmutation. You want a whip to bind someone? You control it with Manipulation. Just want a really strong armor? Enhancement. Pure Conjuration abilities are really really rare and take a lot of thought. And a lot of the more complicated effects rely on multiple types.
Blinky is a really good example for a pure Conjuration ability. It is a powerful vacuum that sucks things in without any other not vacuum cleaner abilities and has infinite storage, which doesn't really fall in the other categories.
I agree that Blinky is a great example. It has limitations but also supernatural power.
Maxed out Conjuration and manipulation>>Transmutation, Emmision and enhancement
Sure for beginners those are better BUT for masters not so much
Specialisation is 100% the best
Specialization makes you a squishy wizard in terms of nen, because it's the category that is the furthest to enhancement. It's still an awesome category tho.
@@saparapatepete
That’s not exactly how specialisation works imo
Specialisation works in one of two ways from what we’ve seen
Either one it functions just like ordinary Nen classes where Conjuration and manipulation would be 80% etc
Or two it works very differently granting you your own nen ring which is the reason it’s so strong the reason specialist abilities are so varied is because people who possess them exist outside of the regular men ring
For instance someone like Chrollo could look something like this 100% specialisation 80% Conjuration 80% Enhancement 60% Emission 60% Manipulation 40% Transmutation
Whilst Pitou’s could look more so like this 100% specialisation 80% manipulation 80% Conjuration 60% enhancement 60% Emission 40% Transmutation
Whilst Pakunoda’s could look like this 100% specialisation 80% emission 80% manipulation 60% Conjuration 60% Transmutation 40% Enhancement
@@mrducky.. There are characters like Kurapika that become specialists and for them it may apply what you say based on their original category, but for characters born into specialization they follow the chart like everyone else. Pitou, like the other royal guards has a supernaturally large amount of aura, which is why she has the raw aura output for close combat against most foes. Chrollo is an extremely proficient nen user, but against strong opponents he keeps the distance (like in his fight against hizoka)or fights defensively(like his fight against zeno and silva) to avoids trading blows if possible.
@@saparapatepete Kurapika's Emperor Time gives him 100% proficiency in all categories.
@@ClashBluelight What's your point ?
I think Conjuration has it the roughest. Sure, it can be used to conjure a weapon with very odd and useful traits for combat.
But comparing that to Manipulation? The category with the most instant win abilities? And even beyond that, the category that can control other things to attack you with?
Dirt, stone, water, blood, any other specific material, there is no end to the kind of ammo you could choose to attack an enemy.
I personally think Conjuration has more total idea space than manipulation, but for purely combat, I'd say Conjuration is dead last.
For me, it's:
Emission > Enhancement > Specialization > Transmutation > Manipulation > Conjuration
With Specialization being the odd case because we are judging the potential of a category, not a specific hatsu. Normally I'd put it a bit lower, but when speaking about possibility and not just general trends, Specialization is top 3 IMO.
Fair. I personally feel Specialization needs to be bumped down simply because of the many unknowns surrounding it.
Also, if the regular proficiency distribution does apply to it, that would make its users the glassiest of glass cannons, with a poultry 40% proficiency in Enhancement.
Buuuuuut, since Chrollo was able to tank multiple direct hits from a physical powerhouse of a transmuter that is Silva... Well, I just can't imagine him doing so and coming out unscathed (for the most part).
You can't really say any category is better than any other in combat, there are pros and cons to every category. Emission, for example, has an innate inefficiency, separating your aura from your body makes it weaker regardless of your nen affinity, so sure, an emitter is more efficient at emitting their aura than anyone else, but in many cases they'll actually have a higher power output compared to aura investment if they just use enhancement. Does this make emission bad? No, it's just a trade off. Similarly manipulation and conjuration rely on restrictions and conditions but the potential of their abilities is far greater than, say, and enhancer. For example, Shalnark once said it doesn't matter how strong his opponent is, if meets the requirements of Black Voice, he's won the fight, effectively giving a much weaker manipulator the ability to defeat a stronger opponent if they can meet their conditions. I think overall no one category is inherently the worst, it's all about how you use them.
I think I agree with this. Look at bungee gum is it better than chain jail probably not but hisoka isn't limited to using it agaisnt spiders.
combat and victory in a game sense or strategy honestly make me feel as though manipulators and conjurers while having the highest skill floor (requiring out of the box thinking, imagination, conditions on your abilities and how they're used etc let alone actual restrictions) among nen categories offers the highest skill ceiling imo.
while an enhancer might stand a far better chance in a 1v1 within melee range, an emitter of equal skill takes the decisive edge at range while a transmuter may or may not win against the enhancer but has the chance to completely counter them.
measuring the effectiveness of nen abilities by 1v1's alone seems too restrictive to me however as we see the power of Illumi taking multiple people and Pitou using their ability to control an entire military combined with Pouf they control an entire nation.
Biscuit as an enhancer/conjurer has incredible strength but her power seems focused on the body's health. if you outlive everyone and look younger than Netero while doing it is that not in and of itself a victory?
another powerful conjuration ability is Knov's pocket dimensions. holy crap such an insane and underrated ability!!! not only can you take yourself and others in and out of these spaces you can also place entrances and exits too???? not just that but you can make the void space in your hands and close it around an enemies' head bypassing any enhancement and foregoing the need for Ko to pierce resistances. you could sneak behind enemy positions and their emitters, avoid their En, one-shot their enhancers, etc.
also while conjurers and Manipulators aren't able to get their 80% from a second category like the others, specialists are almost always either conjurers or manipulators as they have the highest chance of becoming one. their nen abilities often function of placing limitations and rules that change the nature of their nen and because of this their Hatsu becomes difficult to classify. they're usually controlling something about themselves or using manipulation on their own aura rather than transmuting it. using Zetsu to see into the future, conjuring a book to contain stolen Hatsu's to use at will, gaining access to 100% of all categories etc. they manipulate and bend the nature of nen for oneself and conjure unorthodox objects to manifest rules and pledges all to amplify effects normally impossible.
Both Manipulation and Conjuration allow instant wins if their conditions are met. Black Voice, Fun-Fun Cloth, Cheetu's Tag all instantly win if their conditions are fulfilled with varying degrees of effectiveness.
Emission is incredibly potent with it's aura transfer capabilities (Aura Synthesis is Emission) and Transmutation is also incredibly capable.
I nominate Enhancement as the weakest Nen category for high-end combat. After all, the best Enhancer in the world barely uses Enhancement at all. Being strong, tough, and fast is incredibly dangerous, but someone with any other Nen type who's properly prepared can easily handle a brute.
It's for this reason that I say emission is the weakest. Emitters are basically just long range brutes who can't hit as hard due to them being long range.
@@MrDj232
Emitters can hit at range with 100% efficiency, and have teleportation and aura transfer in their potential arsenal.
We're talking about high end Nen users with abilities geared specifically for combat. Emitters are scary.
@@thermophile1695 Emitters can't hit with 100% efficiency. That's my whole point, even for an expert emitter there's a drop in power as soon as your aura disconnects from your body. This makes them weaker than enhancers of the same level.
@@MrDj232
IIRC, a sufficiently skilled emitter can cause this difference to approach zero. Do we have anything concrete on the amount of reduction?
@@thermophile1695 Nothing concrete I know of, but it's always implied to be significant so I assume emitters max out around 90%. Which can be plenty and is nothing to scoff at. But with all other categories being able to compete with enhancers it is a significant disadvantage. The best thing emitters have going for them is the stealth advantage of range and the ability to add tricks through manipulation. Neither is suited for direct combat though.
TBH we just havent seen that many combat focused manipulators and expressive conjurors. Like imagine a manipulator that can control fire or earth, basically becoming a bender. In contrast the only expressive conjuror is hinrigh, the other conjurors feel too focused and lack creativity, like imagine a conjuror that would have the hatsu to turn things into liquid and using aura to determine the viscosity. I feel like there is a whole world of manipulators and conjurors we haven't seen.
While they're definitely under-represented (though perhaps that's on purpose), we do see a semi-decent amount of combat-oriented (or at least combat-capable) conjurers and manipulators, e.g.: Kite, Kurapika, Hinrigh, Bonolenov, Knuckle, etc. for conjurers; and Morel, Illumi, Shal, Kalluto, Zakuro, etc. for manipulators.
That's not how conjuration works. That sounds more like a manipulator ability.
@chriscutler7588 I mean conjurer is near transmutation so they could transmute properties.
@@barcster2003 what property melts all solid objects? And what property could the nen aura have that wouldn't affect it's own user? The electricity still affects killua, he's just used to it.
Emphasis on the FOR COMBAT. I like you said in the vid viewed conjuration as pseudo specialization. For real workd purposes (by that I mean the world in hxh…and I guess our own as well) conjuration is still great
Knovs ability is from emission (previously conjuration) sooo things are kinda checking out. Emission great for combat Conjuration best for utility
Conjuration isn't forced to do restrictions for special objects at all, it's just that both conjuration and manipulation are much easier to find restrictions for that are of almost no impact at all. Kurapika for example doesn't have any restriction for, say, his dousing chain, and only restriction for chain jail and oath chains.
I also think that manipulation/conjuration aren't any weaker for combat than emission/enhancement/transmutation, but that they have much more variance and reliance on the specific of their Hatsu. However, nen combat being so dependant in mind game is in good part because Hatsu are funky as fuck.
Though he doesn't have any conditions on activating the summoned Dousing Chain like Steal Chain (must pierce nen user) or Chain Jail (only on PT): Dousing Chain, like all of Kurapika's special chains must be conjured on his right hand, and must be on a specific finger. The Japanese names of all Kurapika's chains include name of their host finger.
I'm not comfortable projecting what the power gain is for there co-restrictions... but I feel that does compound as at the very least Kurapika has locked himself out of inventing new hatsu he can use with ease by making the restriction, and then keeping his chains conjured all the time. Preventing him from, say, making a second set of chains he could summon instead. And of course Kurapika isn't invulnerable and may risk losing his hatsu if he loses his right arm, hand, or fingers.
@@durianthesleepy Kurapika mainly keeps his chains conjuror to trick people into thinking he is manipulator and thus, the physical chains cannot be hidden with In. This is how he tricked Uvo
i feel like both of these ability's can be very good depending on how creative you are with then, also do you know in what ways you can control Nen with Manipulation.
10:20 or specialization.
You know , like thr graphic that recently was shown parallel with the chapter and that specifically says that manipulators can and will have a 1% adaception of specialization if they are born like that.
The 1% is meant to mostly be a symbolic gesture to signify that a conjurers and manipulators are most likely to undergo a natural nen type shift to become specialists.
@@theoverthinker348 because someone saud that or because there's actual proof ?
@@theoverthinker348 Yes, because anyone has a tiny chance of changing nen types. And we can assume that when it happens, it's more likely to change into an adjacent type.
@@elcalabozodelandroide2 Izunavi does, if I rember correctly, while explaining Nen to Pika.
Both conjuration and manipulation is as strong as their user is intelligent. The more intelligent and creative the user is, stronger their fighting ability will be. You might say something like "wouldn't the already-strong nen types like emmision or enhance (I don't remember the name, the bonk one) get even stronger with an intelligent and creative user?" which to that I say; no, those nen types only have so much ways you can use them. An enhancer will get stronger with more resolve they have, a manipulator on the other hand, will get stronger as he gets more creative.
I think manipulation real nature is to allow the user to program using aura.
Like programing someones brain or body. Shikaku is the case were a manipulator progams aura, like if the hatsu of someone hits his aura the hatsu reprogam itself to transform into a card, but i dont think he can use it. Stealing and sealing other users auras is possible with manipulation and conjuration but use them is specialization.
I think conjurers can approach combat in a really simplitic and effective way without necessarily needing use restrictions and limitations. Many materials in our world are dangerous by themselves, a conjurer well versed in sciences could theoreticallly conjure a plethora of acids, poisons and explosives that could easily end up a fight. heck theoretically a conjurer could even make an atomic bomb as long as he knows enough chemestry and engineering for that.
Conjuration:
You create a sword, then use transmutation to covert your aura to ultra concentrated light properly and apply it to your sword. Now you have a light saber. 👍
To be fair, while Shikaku is a Manipulator, like Shoot his ability could also utilize Conjuration (and perhaps Emission if we interpret it as being able to transferring things which would also includes absorbing and sealing stuff), so I don't think it's just the manipulation that allows him to take someone's ability. We also don't know if he can use them himself afterwards, in fact we don't really know if his ability is to take the entirety of the enemy's ability or to just absorb a single attack, and it's more likely that his Manipulator ability is something else entirely which he can also use on himself.
Overall, I would say Conjurors are more versatile, but Manipulators have the 1-hit victory condition in a lot of cases. I would be more scared of fighting a Manipulator than a Conjuror, especially when in a lot of cases it's more obvious what a Conjuror can do based on the object they have at hand, unless it's someone like Kurapika.
Manipulators also tend to have a way to manipulate themselves, effectively turning into enhancers for a short period.
while manipulators have a instant win effect in think conjuration is similar in the sense that if they have everything set up they are pretty much guaranteed to win but also can be more versatile
I rember having this conversation back in the day with some friends and originally agreed that conjuration would be low-tier. But after taking one of those "What Nen user are you" tests and getting Conjuration I sat down to think up the pros and cons.
From what I've seen the major limitation for a conjurer is the conjurer themself and if there is a limit on the number of things they can conjure. The more creative the conjurer, the better their construct(s) are. A hypothetical Nen user I proposed to my friends is a Conjurer who can summon a variety of mechanical beetles that each have different utilities and due to their numbers can swarm someone. A limit could be that each beetle can only do one thing like explode or slice things.
Meanwhile with Manipulators even though a major strength is a potential one-hit kill if their ability connects, there's a variety of outside factors that could potentially prevent their ability from going off. Using Shalnark and Illumi as an example, they need both a tool and said tool to pierce a person. If they lose the tool or if somehow the tool isn't able to pierce, then they're stuck fighting without their major Nen ability and will need to resort to figuring something out quickly.
My conclusion is that an expert conjurer will have a better match-up overall than an expert manipulator. An Expert Manipulator will still need to rely on outside conditions to get their win con, while an expert conjurer can set things up themselves or already has things ready to get their win cons.
That first point reminded me of something I wrote in a server a while back:
"When you think about it, the Nen chart is kinda unbalanced because Conjurors and Manipulators are the only types that have just one 80% adjacent type, where as the rest all have 2
And Enhancers are stacked because their lowest is 60% compared to the others who each have one 40%
Then there are Specialists who can can use everything to some degree"
I agree....maybe it would be less broken if specialization were a category that it's in the middle at the same distance from each other category. Specialization is rare for every nonspecialist, even conjurers and manipulators. so they often lack adjacent categories to make allow for more options. Theorically an enchancer that becomes a specialist is the most op thing, because specialization is either on 100% or 0%, you have it or don't have it.
The flipside of this is that it's very rare for a non manipulator or non conjurer to dabble into those fields, with the notable exception of emitters sometimes dabbling into conjuration (but those tend to limit them a lot unless they are as strong as razor) or like Biscuit who is just insane and somehow decided to mainly show manipulator and conjuration abilities when she is a transmuter.
Amusingly Kastro could have been very strong if his double was a second hatsu he had created over decades lol
@@tombeauvais7025 Kastro honestly just needed more conditions/restrictions for his ability, that seems to always allow for bypassing the efficiency problems. Maybe something like only being able to use it in the ring of the 200s floors of Heaven's Arena, or doing a certain amount of damage to his opponent first.
@@angrashadow2958 That might be too restrictive for him if he ever plans leaving the place, but i agree that with some conditions and/or penalties he could have mitigated the affinity problems. Maybe something like limiting the clone's duration to a few seconds could fit him based on the way he mostly uses that ability. Another riskier but somewhat fitting option could be to make the clone "real" and every time the clone takes damage he gets hurt in the same way.
@@saparapatepeteSince he was a close range brawler maybe somthing like limiting or increasing its ouput based on how much damage he has dealt, taken or blocked relative to his clone.
creating ones own nen space for conjurers has lots more potential, though one shotting or having an uber powerful controlled being perma slave is points into manipulation.
I'd like to make an observation on the point of restrictions: I know you don't like it, but Hisoka's personality test actually comes through on these two. Both being logical, and either analytical or obsessive. This makes the personality profile of both Manipulator and Conjurer a person who could/would fulfill conditions for their constructed combat style as a habit.
My thoughts give it to manipulators: game, set and match. For two reasons
-Emission pairs better with Manipulation than Transmutation does with Conjuration. Manipulating something emitted uses the user's primary affinity. While at best I imagine a Conjurer would conjure something that makes using or transmuting a substance easier: but that's using their primary affinity to support a secondary one.
-In a no preptime fight stacking hatsu I can only imagine favors a Manipulatior. If a Manipulator and a Conjurer each have 4 hatsu then it's easier for the Manipulator to have and use a favorable stack. If Conjurer needs to dismiss and conjure another ability, or even just needs to invest the time/aura to conjure a multiple beast/item/forms. Where Manipulators can wait for the "tag" to trigger their effects once the qualifying conditions are met.
what it comes down to me is that, with both of them being equally far away from the enhancement category, manipulators having better access to long range abilities through emission is what puts them over conjurers for me.
The abilities vary so much that some are good for combat while other are not at all. On a surprive battle and object Manip is at a disadvantage, on a battle with info a One-Hit-Ko Manip is at a disadvantage, a combat Conjurer is probably more versatile but also may be weaker or even more constrained by pledges. Kite's ability for example is very strong but he uses randomness for pledges so... he might get unlucky.
I don’t know if any category is inherently better then others in combat as a whole. Remember how Morel told Killua that you cannot decide the outcome of a fight based on raw aura quantity? Perhaps the same is true with the nen categories. Enhancement seems to be the best in melee combat, but Kurapika defeated a master enhancer. Close range combat is not all of combat. Chrollo stated that enhancers like Uvo are susceptible to conjurers and manipulators. Furthermore, it seems to me that the most powerful nen users are able to transcend the nen categories. Netero, for example, is an enhancer, but his bodhisattva makes use of emission and manipulation (and possibly conjuration). Given his natural efficiency in manipulation, an ability this powerful that makes use of it should have been impossible, but Netero transcended that limitation with prayer, emotion, and training. Hisoka criticized Kastro for using conjuration and manipulation as an enhancer, but Netero made it work. Nen is an expression of oneself and we are infinite beings with infinite potential. Will and mental strength are factors in nen that I view as above the categories themselves.
Kurapika beating a master enhancer doesn't really count since emperor time allows him to use enhancement at 100% efficiency, uvogin would have killed him with little effort without that.
I have to go with manipulation, but first we have to talk about the user, if we have to set a standard for an average nen user, I think the average hunter is the best example; as hunter association is best known organization that teaches nen in systematic way
So the average hunter must be above average in physical strength to pass the exam, and has some survival skills and knows at least a little bit about self defense
So an average hunter with average amount of aura would be able to control one or two people at most including themselves as a precaution, which mean they can't beat opponents with sheer numbers, also manipulated objects or people don't have additional traits besides their normal characteristics so manipulating a weapon may not as advantageous as conjuring a supernatural one, another point you mentioned is that conjuration might as well be specialization as conjured objects can have any sort of effect as the user imagines provided there are limitations
I ironically think that manipulation is most useful in combat when you trick your opponent into thinking that you are a manipulator (as kurapika did in york new arc) while waiting for the best moment to use your real ability.
Great video, gave a lot to think about.
Excellent analysis.
I'd argue the point about sheer numbers, since it depends on what you're manipulating. I'd argue Squala was (at best) an average Nen user, but he could control a dozen or so dogs at once. This is almost certainky because he had to tame them first, which makes clearing the condition for manipulation much less costly Nen-wise. Now, dogs aren't a serious threat to a Nen user, but could make for a... decent destraction, at least. Don't tell Knuckle though. He'll beat your face to a pulp.
I think I agree about the second point. A conjured supernatural sword would (at least) be equal to... 5-6 manipulated weapons, for example.
Hmmm, I see what you mean, but allow me to argue the opposite: it's actually more optimal to trick people into thinking you're ANYTHING ELSE but a Manipulator. If you're able to trick the opponent into thinking you're a Conjurer or Emitter, you may be able to lull them into getting hit with your one-hit-win Manipulation ability. Though this may only be applicable to more advanced nen user, since most nen users wouldn't have the... skill points to afford doing something like that. I think Kurapika's deception only worked because he had a one-hit-win Hatsu specifically made to take down Troupe members, which Uvo had no reason to suspect. That, plus the whole turning the chain invisible via In.
Sorry for the wall of text, but the points you raised were worth exploring.
@@theoverthinker348 you're totally right about the third point, and even the author agrees with you, as Melody said in one of the latest chapters that some manipulators tend to present themselves as non-nen users.
It kinda depends on the limitation given I think if you set 2 pro hunters, one a conjurer, one a manipulator, conjuror is going to need a higher cost nen vow to win
until they both start betting their lives then conjuring seems better
but idk maybe theres some manipulation ability I haven’t thought of
With this summary, I would say that Manipulators, on average, have combat abilities that are more easily tailored towards combat and the suppression of other people, making it more dangerous than the normal ability of Conjurers. It is generally an offensive, but somewhat predictable mechanic unless focusing on tricky ways to apply it. On the other hand, the abilities that a Conjurer applies to their conjured objects are mysterious and will be tailored to meet the needs of the summoner, with self-defense likely being high on their list, but it is likely that their methods of attack will be inflexible, but the conjured objects can likely be utilized greatly for defensive strategy.
Additionally, Conjurers are stuck with being proficient mostly only at medium range with their abilities tied to their conjured objects and will generally require tricks and ambushes to deal with long or short range, whereas Manipulators can be quite proficient and dangerous at most distances with their abilities, but generally lack defensive options if receiving an attack.
So I would say Manipulators are superior at attack, Conjurers are superior at Defense and leave it at that.
I haven't really seen anyone talk about conjures being able to make things like exploseives. Because if your forced to make mundane items base supplys for explosive could be made as well as poisons and acids.
Manipulation is a category that is more suited for indirect combat, and stealth in general. However like sharnalk does you could use it like a pseudo enhancement category with the right mind. Without going to the extreme of Autopilot you could have a specific part of your body able to perform better as needed. Imagine temporarily making your eyes that of a hawk for scouting long distances. I also wonder if you could use it as a pseudo transmuting nen by manipulating the properties of objects we've mostly seen them being used on living being but what about inert objects, what's the limit ?
Both are almost dependent on rules and restrictions of their powers. They have high ceiling to work with making it hard to train/master in. It does give them the power to have a stronger abilities because they have more option to work with.
Manipulation: if it mind control one they effectively have a one shot win. They work best in a city at mid to long range. But their restrictions are a lot more easy to see and take advantage of. Like take away their needs or phone. They also need to usually carry an item(s) around for their ability. Which broken lost damage taken or forgotten at home limits if not out right nulls their power out. I do feel like but this is definitely hand cannon to me is they need ‘larger’ bit of nen to activate their power and a small stream of it to keep it active.
Conjugations: they don’t need to carry a big part of their ability around. They also can work in any range or environment. If they can’t work in that setting they can force themselves into a pocket dimension. They aren’t as dependent on having a rule or resection as manipulators. Even if they do have a rule it’s a lot harder to see what it vs manipulators. They probably cost more nen to activate their power.
Nen is so diverse its more dependant on hatsu. Many characters that use manipulation will use it to enhance our body I think conjuration comes short in the end as it always seems to be a side ability to a grander piece. Kurapika conjures his chains but several of them will use his dual affinity to actually produce its power. Chrollo also conjures his book but will use hatsu from other types.
The fact that you mentioned how many specialists awaken their hatsu rather than develop it shows much of your understanding of nen as a power system. Most people believe specialists by default have access to all Nen categories when it could be way closer to the opposite.
Thanks!
Yeah, we genuinely don't know how Specialization actually functions, hence why I always take care to mention this whenever making any statements about it, which admittedly can become boring for returning viewers.
It all depends on the nen user but conjuration has more potential for versatility in combat and overall utility. Manipulation is kinda mid unless you're illumi. Also, with conjurers having more options in transmutation you can add so much extra utility to conjurations.
You completely overlooked the fact that Conjurers are also benefiting from being adjecent to Transmutation; it is easy to imagine that Manipulators can use Emissiom effectively, but Conjurers probably gives their conjured constructs properties of something by the help of transmutation.
For example Kite gives each slot a specific ability by using transmutation, and the clown itself transmutes into various objects depending on the slot.
For Hinrigh, he might change the shape of anything he touches, but it retains the original properties because of the transmutation.
That has nothing to do with Transmutation, that's conjuration. Transmutation is about *AURA* and this has remained consistent even now
Otherwise your Kite example means Kurapika's doing the exact same thing with his chains. And he's not they're just conjured with those abilities.
I have a question, where has it been confirmed that changing the shape of objects is transmutation? I haven't read the manga in a long time so I could be wrong, but as far as I saw transmutation had nothing to do with it. ( Sorry for the english )
@@erivansilva-iv3 It wasn't. It was only ever confirmed as early as chapter 60 to change the properties of aura(so things like shaping aura or making it glow in the dark or be stretchy would be transmutation). Conjuration has recently been rethought since "Creating an object" is a reductionist take on what it can do as a whole. Technically having a new form would be an act of conjuration as this could be seen as creating an "object."
It's only a theory people have because of the Nen Exhibit showcasing Youpi as a Transmuter (and Tsubone being a CONJURER with a transmutation lean) that they think Transmutation can shapeshift objects, but if it's a physical alteration that'd be with the realm of either manipulation or conjuration. And sometimes Enhancement
@@erivansilva-iv3 Your English is excellent.
It entirely depends on who you ask. Some think object transformation/alteration is advanced application application of Conjuration, others Manipulation and others still (such as myself) argue that it is Transmutation. It's also very much possible object or body alteration can accomlished by more than one category.
@@theoverthinker348 Body alteration can. But the main affinities it would be is Manipulation(see Illumi), Conjuration(see Tsubone/Kurton), or Enhancement(see Gon or Bill). Those aura types have been shown to physically be capable of altering matter to some capacity. Emission and Transmutation can interact with objects yes, but they don't have effects on objects such as growth or expanding.
A manipulator doesn’t necessarily need to emit to manipulate thus they don’t really need to leak aura to manipulate. This means they have a tendency to have higher reserves
I always thought that enhancers and its neighbors had higher skill floors, while the other categories had lower skill floors, but the heights one could achieve are dependent more on the user.
Hmm, I'd say enhancers (currently) have the lowest skill floors (as you've said), but also the lowest skill ceilings as well (by far). BTW, I'm talking hatsu complexity not pure power or skill, which is user and not category dependent. We've yet to really see an Enhancement-based hatsu to rival something like Heinrigh's Bio-hazard or Killua's Godspeed. Imma actually make a vid on this relatively soon (it's a wider topic about Nen, but this will be included).
Personally I would say that manipulators have much going for them for almost any situation, but specifically fighting nen users ? They're kinda screwed.
Any conjurer can make a good weapon that will match an average enhancers power with restrictions, but a manipulator's needle or other 1-shot activator isn't reaching almost anybody with a good nen protection, and anything other than that requires significant setup
With self manipulation, matter manipulation (like Morel, Karuto or Zakuro) or with little but specific conditions (you could do Mei Mei CT from jjk for example), you can always be very efficient against any nen user
This has me curious about Nen categories for other purposes and how they'd go like best category for infiltration, assassination, recon, exploration and the like!
I'd argue it comes down to the user.
For example hisokas bungee gum is pretty great but I'd argue because he made good use of it.
Manipulation:
The first obvious drawback is Nen's ineffectiveness at a distance. This is shared with emitters and made worse for non-emitters.
10:50 I'm not sure what Illumi is doing to get those to stick in people, but most people can't use needles in the brain as a workaround.
Most people would need a dart gun to even reach the target.
Maybe Illumi is using a condition+making the needles store nen to work from a distance+insane assassin training since birth.
I think in a combat with no prep time whatsoever and assuming equal skill level & experience (basically everything aside Affinity), Manipulator would win... most of the time, especially if the Conjurer isn't able to finish the fight quickly (using In). The fact that they have an 80% proficiency potential in Emission allows them to engage in long to medium range combat, whereas a Conjurer would most likely be on high alert for most of the battle because they do not know the conditions a Manipulator needs to fulfill, and it's always safe to assume that a Manipulator hatsu controls people. They can probably put some self-Manipulation into place, but it degrades their capacity to use their aura on their conjuring.
The only way for a Conjurer to fight on confident ground is if their Conjured object/beast somehow also protects them from Manipulation, or is able to fight independent of them (im gonna exclude Exorcists with Conjured nen beasts out of this one; im quite sure there wont be enough time within active combat)
Conjuration has a higher power ceiling then manipulation in direct combat. I think a extremely powerful conjuror would pull something like unlimited blade works. I think kurapika is a good example of the power of conjuration even if he is somewhat of an exception.
Any conjuror could in theory make a nen vow to have a specific weapon only effect a specific target. This has insane potential. A blade that only harms those the wielder deems evil and only during a full moon would probably be relative to kurapika’s chains.
I do think manipulation wins in a indirect fight though. The ability to develop a self spreading hatsu that enforces loyalty is quite powerful. Though in theory a conjuror could develop a hatsu that specifically breaks manipulation hatsu on the wearer.
Hi! In the video it is said, that we are tackling 1v1 battle with no prep time. I'll share my opinion on how manipulator can become powerful enough to do well in 1v1. Does it count as prep or setup? I don't think so, it is more like training. As a manipulator you can manipulate people. So, hypothetically lets manipulate normal people to unlock nen (most will die, but some will awaken) 9:57. Then you use their nen to give yourself buffs and nen tools, conjured, enhanced, emitted or transmuted or combination of such. Imagine a manipulator with an enhanced katana and invisibility buff similar to Perfect Plan of Meleoron. Manipulators have been shown to acquire hatsu 10:01, so You might end up with a versatile powerful manipulator very similar to Chrollo Lucilfer. Is this hard and tedious? Yes! Does it make one of the strongest nen users? Maybe. Share your thoughts and arguments about how hard it is to do in comments below :)
I do believe that emitters can become stronger than this manipulator super soldier by utilizing Meruems nen aura stealing ability, but in general this one fairs well against all nen affinities with any application.
I think the one thing that makes me think manipulation isna tiny bit better than conjuration is that the neighboring affinity (not specialization) is more useful to thr main affinity.. For an example emission is more useful to manipulation than transmutation is to conjuration. The whole idea of nen is that you make an ability based on your affinity but use the other affinities to either make it possible or better. So for manipulation its only smart to make your ability long range. Because your close combat isn't as good as the top 3 affinities yk.. So you have to build where your strengths are. Which is why manipulation isn't the worst imo. Also as many said here zthe fact that for manipulation to work it only has to do a one hit accurate shot, that's powerful. Ofc the one shot would be hard to hit but its 100% worth it once you do. Also for like a backup plan, shalnark made a backup plan that has a very big upside and a very terrible downside. For a minute or 30 seconds he could probably be on the same level as uvo's 100% but the downside is that your muscles basically get worse the longer you use it for. He used it for 5 to 10 seconds and ended up having muscle aches for 3 days or so.
So imo with manipulation you could make a mediocre ability, that if accurately used, would have a 95% win rate. With conjuration you have to be soooooo creative and skilled and have heavy conditions on it for it to be useful.
What I'm basically saying is that for conjuration to be good you have to be insanely creative ajd work 110% harder than any other nen affinity. To achieve a workable/good nen ability. Kurapika is the only exception so far because he can become a specialist ane tap into the 100% of all affinities. Which gets him out of the picture because his ability i just insane with a big cost.
So yeah. i think you underplay manipulation so much because I'd put it very high up due to many facts. Also something we haven't seen many Manipulators do, or any in the Anime, is that thebuse of manipulation but not to control people but nen itself. As in make a nen projectile and manipulate it to move wherevee you want and if it hits it gives someone a stun or paralyzes them or whatever. Not the common type of manipulation but its what i personally would do if i was a manipulator. That makes it insanely powerful. Not as good for AOE damage like the top 3 affinities but its best against single opponents.
If you want examples of what I'm talking about, Think of:
1. Yondu from guardian of the galaxy
2. Darkseid's laser eyes
3. Gwen tennyson from ben 10..
4. Oh and how can i forget, zeno isn't a manipulator but he used manipulation to control his purple dragon attack to chase chrollo. He is an emitter so that so that was easy for him.
Etc... Manipulation could be soooo powerful when combines with emission. I think you didn't give it enough credit because we haven't seen anyone use it in a crazy powerful way yk? See the way i compare my hypothetical ability to zeno is, zeno definitely has a more powerful attack but mine have higher accuracy and easier to control ability + that i can put a better effect on the hit. If it hit i could control my opponent, or stun, or paralyze, or poison, or a thousand other effects. Think of it like a minecrafts arrows with effects yk? You hit someone and you could... Slow them down or something for 20 seconds.
It’s weird that even though manipulation can control objects we have yet to see some sort of bending esque environment manipulation.
It’s not really using the environment but morel technically smoke bends
Air manipulation aside from creating a vacuum around their head would do little you couldnt do better by just shooting emission projectiles even as a manipulator.
Earth manipulation would likely be extremely inefficient compared to bending in avatar, you would likely need time to infuse any large amount with aura beforehand and it would take a decent bit of aura to move it, reshaping hard rock would unironicaly be easier and more flexible as a conjurer ability.
Fire manipulation would be nice, but I think an emitter with better enhancement outclass a manipulator if they are both just doing bending stuff.
Water manipulation is likely the best option for manipulation, fliuid and easy to move around (unlike earth) while still having mass (unlike air), can absorb most attacks without being destroved completely so you can just manipulate it again if your controll breaks and you even get a cheeky manipulator instakill in the form of blood manipulation.
I believe Manipulations new "stealing hatsu" capabilities are simply basically lightly confirming a blind spot that I felt should have always been an aspect of manipulation.
Namely the ability to manipulate Nen and other's nen themselves.
Although it isnt like any of our main cast was a manipulator so ofc this wouldnt get mentioned. And to boot it would probably be considered a less advised technique, as it would rely on one's well...experience WITH nen and attunement with nen to make a worthwhile focus or hatsu out of such capabilities. So more naturally manipulators focus on what they're already familliar with from birth, living beings, and objects rather than the Nen they're just learning to utilize.
I think if this ends up becoming an offical thing of "Manipulation" that would give it the edge over Conjuration, which let's be honest, its main focus could be MAJORLY supplimented by well...just carrying a freaking object around.
Ofc Togashi probably realized this early on, so almost all conjurors entirely avoid it just being a "normal object but more" with dimensional spaces, non natural objects or objects changing in nature to beyond average (Kurapika's chains extending/generating infinitely, Shoot's freaking hands+box and Knuckle's loanshark, on top of Nen beasts in general.)
Shoot and Knuckle are ALSO likely examples however of Nen manipulation being PART of manipulation. Knuckle's entire power is entirely nen manipulation afterall but it has a buncha conditions and is tied to an object since his manipulation is only at 60% still.
Shoot's power while not directly effecting nen is still what I could only call a pushing of "Manipulation" as the stealing what he touch's could truly only be classified as specialization or...an extreme case of manipulation, as it IS technically controlling a person's body, just in an odd unorthodox way.
The spider guy whos summons a sun seeing conjuration being a weak nen class
My opinion before watching the video: Manipulation is one of the most proficient in surviving a battle, but it is not exactly a combat situation, isn't it? Easy win if you successfully manage to manipulate your target, but you can't manipulate target who is alr being manipulated by another, at the same time.
It's not a combat, it's a battle to secure a victory early on... .
Edit: Wow, i actually never thought of this perspective in Conjuration, before. The case closed when Nen User utilizes more than one type in their Hatsu, but how PURE Conjuration managed to get function beyond their Conjured object, actual object? Do they actually an all-rounder w/ more work when try to conjure it the 1st time? With the special property of able to hide the object with In?
What i said above also only mentioned the PURE Manipulator, though. Morel, who utilizes more than one Hatsu, is out of the picture... .
What about a nen category for day to day life? 🤔
Ooooooh, noooow there's a fun idea ripe for overthinking!
I’d say specifically in a 1 vs 1 fight, conjurer has the advantage. Specifically because there shouldn’t be loads of human bystanders mulling around to be manipulated in a 1 vs 1 fight. If it’s a 1 vs 1, there literally shouldn’t be anyone else around. Otherwise it’s a 1 vs (1 x X) fight. Manipulators are also much more limited. If you have imagination and or a risky attitude, conjuring can be far more powerful.
I thought that conjurors and manipulators were at the bottom of the chart because they had the highest chance of becoming specialist?
Most of the specialists shown in the series have even had some type of conjuration involved with their technique
I’d say Conjuration has to most potential of any Nen type more Manipulation is the most efficient
Conjunction can do anything but control people. Manipulation more often than not makes you a squishy "mage", and more often than not has stricter rules to be able to use to a meaningful way.
While Conjuration can follow precise conditions to get truly insane outputs, it just takes too much time to get there. Kurapika is a talented Nen User and despite that it took him months just to learn how to Conjure something basic as chains. What is the difference between that and a Manipulator buying chains and using them? The chains will be a bit stronger since Manipulators don't have the best enhancement and they'll be renewable. That is the only advantages, the Manipulator will have more precise control over the chain plus more potential function once the chain makes contact due to Manipulations vast pool of abilities and being next to Emission makes it so distant application isn't out of the question. Unless you spend 10+ years studying mechanics and precise parts so you can conjure any vehicle and any parts of those vehicles and use them in many different ways, you kinda have a super limited pool of abilities
Personally, I think that Conjuration has more potential than Manipulation, but its potential may just be very difficult to realize.
Specifically, the ability to create mundane objects doesn't seem that powerful, until you realize that its incredibly flexible.
And whilst we haven't seen any showcases of Conjuration creating something like a 'Little Rose' warhead, it is theoretically possible, and thus can't be discounted.
In other words, whilst it may seem like other Nen-types hold a distinct advantage, its possible that Conjuration has some of the best abilities when trained in a specific and wisely chosen direction, or somebody incredibly talented might get lucky and end up being one of the strongest Nen-user.
manipulation is easily the better combat oriented affinity. so far in the series we've only really seen manipulators develop hatsu dependent on prep time, but there's no reason we should assume this is one of the categories limits. This is mostly speculation on my part, but I think most manipulators focus way to much on the whole 'instant win condition' thing, we know manipulators are able to control just about anything they want, meaning potential environmental manipulation, and we've seen manipulators manipulate themselves not just in the shalnark 'nen power boost' way, but also in just straight up bodily manipulation. Illumi used it for a disguise, my question is why couldn't that aspect of it be used like, say, killuas godspeed. manipulate the body to force heal it or reconfigure muscle. true, it's never been done in the series, but if I'm right then it means manipulation is more or less able to emulate enhancement.
I don't think conjuration is immediately worth throwing away though, they can make just about anything, including substances. the reason transmuters tend to make substances more than conjurers are because of the freedom with properties transmuters have, but there's no reason a conjurer couldn't just make fire, we've seen it done with basho. conjurers also come with the benefit of the things they make not constituting aura, i.e. they don't have the main weakness found in emission, so while yea, a manipulator could tap into emission for some decent range, a conjurer could also do that with conjuration alone. also a conjurer is never unarmed, the only example of a conjurer I can think of that does this is kurapika, but if they wanted to, a conjurer could just make an ungodly amount of whatever weapon they use, it could be awful quality to save on aura, but that wouldn't matter because they more or less have an infinite supply. kurapika does this with chains, but it could be literally anything. plus the conjured space thing isn't limited to just pocket dimensions, again speculation here but I see no reason why a conjurer couldn't rip off gojo and decide to create infinite space between them and whatever attack is coming their way.
This is definitely a tough call to make though, I think I'd give range to conjurers and adaptability to manipulators. conjurers can create more effects, meaning more potential uses for any given hatsu than manipulators, but manipulators have more control. If it weren't for their placement on the nen ring I think I disagree with them being the worst and give that title to transmutation, because as is I see a lot of unexplored potential with both categories. But I am letting my imagination do a lot of the work here, so I dunno
Due to the concept of hatsu there's no best nen category for combat, it's all dependant on the users creativity and interest in fighting, nen itself is kind off a limitless bottom when it comes to abilities and creative use's, sure there are affinities that are better suited for the physical matter but there are also affinities better suited for the psychological aspect of a fight(for example a manipulator that when they land a hit the pain[not damage] the enemy feels is amplified) but that's the problem itself, fighting involves a lot of factors in very equal measures so i wouldn't say there's any affinity better suited for anything other than what they say they are
What exactly stopping manipulators from controlling their own bodies but still be in control? Through some conditions, and so on. Sort-of like Killua's speed - just bypass all thinking and "giving manual commands", while still remaining in control and understanding what's going on around you.
Lets say condition is "i can control ONLY my body" and "only once per week". I think that's limiting enough to make you good in a normal combat.
But yeah, saying "just fair combat with no ambush or prep time" for manipulator is same as saying same thing to a sniper. In a perfect scenario - that should never happen to them.
Conjuration: create a sword, then make a pledge that you can only use it if the target is in exactly 1km range. A slash that ignores distance and instantly kills the target. Then just master the Gyo or use a GPS tracker 😂
Conjuration just has more versatility imo. No real prep time like many manipulators need and conjurors can basically use all categories (albeit less efficiently). I think manipulation is probably the worst for pure combat
Manipulation is tottaly broken.
Reinforce/Transmutation/Emiters; "Tons of strategy to overcome my opponent and check my hatsu on the enemy, and need to do that often more than 1 time"
Manipulation; "Gonna clip this little shit on anywhere of my opponent body and gg"
Hahahahahaha, aye, true.
Though, if given a few times to wind up, you can say the same about an enhancer like Phinks as well.
How certain are you that the poor performance wasn't just people going against their type?
Kastro was a enhancer. Yet he _choose_ to develop Conjuration and Manipulation abilities. Thus resulting in overall worse performance.
Maybe a lot of the others showed poor performance because they also went "against their type". Maybe Baise never was a manipulator - and thus developing a manipulation ability was a bad pick?
While those that performed well outside their type, were just so skilled overall you never noticed they were "off type" and thus operating at 60 or less percent?
Kurapika put on limits simply because he had to fight enemies with way more experience and talent - which might also operate as a group.
Not all hunters or people make Hatsus with combat in mind since if you train hard or long enough, you can be dangerous even to Nen users without having a combat related Hatsu (Biscuit)
In fact, most hunters make Hatsus that revolve around their occupation. Some just happen to also be good for combat
Leorio is a good example
I don‘t think there are Nen categories which are worse than others. It‘s just harder to use some categories. With the right restrictions and thought process, almost any category can be broken
Conjuraton and Manipulation get a natural boost from the Writer just FROM having 0% in Specialization
thus equaling-out and making it indeed so there I NO STRONGEST TYPPEEE
To me, I have to say that Specialization is actually the least useful in battle because of the fact that it takes a lot of conditions to activate an ability, not to mention the user has to come up with restrictions to increase it's power. Just too much to do in a situation like in combat in my opioin.
I agree that manipulators and conjurors are both not directly good at combat. However i would also say the ones that we know of are held back by morals and imagination. For example Shoot and Morel are both not good at killing. But Kalluto while yes conveluted is. Same with conjuration. For simplicity sake if were to design a hatsu with manipulatuon and conjuration only it shouldnt be hard for it to be lethal. Regardless of whats my nen nature is ill conjure a simple ninja star that can levitate and spin on command. I then could use manipulation to direct the high spinning ninja star towards my target. And a side affect of being a manipulator or conjuror that ninja star is going to have a lot of nen. And with that you have a sinple yet effective weapon id bet could cut through most opponents and things.
1:20 Completely wrong. Specialists still get 80% affinity with conjuration and manipulation, 60% on emission and transmutation and 40% on enhancement.
The reason conjuration and manipulation NEED to be next to special is cuz they require things like pacts limitations etc to become truly effective. This personalization is what specialization is all about
Comment 1
Honestly, just enjoy this kinda vedio. I believe it really depends on the user + possibly situation.
The nature of HunterXHunter makes this question impossible to answer, as long as you are a good strategist and care to fight you can develop a combat ability. That being said its gotta be manipulation. Your power outright doesn't work if another manipulator already called dibs on the target.
I think Enhancement is just stupid broken. Emission and Transmutation get so many points for me for having relatively good access to Enhancement. You can use it for simple and extremely effective offense, defense, speed, and healing. Nothing else comes close. I think I’d give the edge to Manipulation for having more synergy with Emission, rather than Conjuration with Transmutation. Emission gives the squishy types an extremely simple to use ranged option capable of dealing meaningful damage, which I think Transmutation *can* do but struggles more with it.
Note: transmutation is extremely powerful and downright broken in its own right, but I think it just specifically does not pair as well with a character who isn’t at all durable, which doesn’t apply to Transmuters themselves (80% Enhancement affinity) and Enhancers that can also have good access to it
Largely agree.
I think manipulation are more easier than conjunction. Because you don't overthink every little thing like conjunction. And manipulate specific in a area of nen. Example like controlling your blood. For conjunction, you need time and energy to make your some sort of haus. And don't forget about conditions/vows, pledge to give yourself a edge.
But I do think there's some things that conjuration can do that manipulation doesnt.
@@barcster2003 . True, I can't deny that. Conjunction need some time to work it out.
manipulation is easily above conjuration.
you get utility and possibly hax while conjuration is literally useless without heavy restrictions.
Manipulation my favorite category. Out of all the categories I’ve fantasized creating the most abilities in manipulation.
Wall of text or it didn't happen.
@@theoverthinker348 nah don’t want anybody coincidentally coming up with this!!
Morel doesnt transmute his nen into smoke. Otherwise he wouldn't need the pipe.
He definitely does. Remember when he created smoke under water while battling Leol? The pipe functions as a limitation to boost his transmutation potency, since as a Manipulator he has only a 40% proficiency in it.
@@theoverthinker348 I just went back and watched that episode. He keeps the bowl of the pipe dry with smoke and only manipulating the smoke. He never transmutes his aura into smoke.
@@chriscutler7588 I checked. This is not said or shown at any point based on what I can see.
Also, not only does regular smoke dissipate in water, but the pipe wouldn't have the oxygen needed to keep burning if was entirely insulated.
When it came to restrictions I fell like a nen abilities who don't have one do not exist, every hatsu has it own restrictions , well as for the weakest categories I belive that specialisation is the one, because you never know what it could be , and compared to other you don't know how to train it and any ability that you creat won't necessarily be the best one for you because the lack of information about it
Based on everything we saw, Uvogin had a hatsu without any kind of restrictions/pledges. Being a ball-to-the-wall enhancement brawler, this makes a lot of sense as he converted advanced principles of nen, i.e. 'ko', into a hatsu.
@@theoverthinker348 I believe it has restrictions, but in another type
So far from what I saw restrictions tend to change depending on the type of nen, mainwhil conjuration give it to the object, enhancement and emission type tend to have it as a part of the process and a condition for the ability to work
As you said the bigbang impact is simply an upper grade version of ko, so the restrictions in these case should be the same ( also there is the one about only using it with right hand)
Under the presumption that manipulators have to manipulate people, yeah it seems pretty weak. However, manipulators and manipulation based techniques have the additional detail which makes them broken. That being that a manipulator can manipulate anything and that they are not limited to people. I saw other commentors talking about the theoretical applications of manipulation and they're 100% right. For some odd reason, HxH just doesn't like having manipulators doing work on anything other than people. With the limitations that nen allows, it sounds like you could in theory, create a similar ability to that of the ope ope no mi from one piece (laws devil fruit) but without the whole "people effected by it cant be harmed" thing. Its pretty cool to think about what you could realistically do with it beyond "durrrr brainwash people!!!"
I'm pretty sure manipulators are meant to be like mind control because if you can "manipulate" a bunch of things isn't that arguably all the other categories.
The weakest should be specialist; you have no control over the ability you get (combat ability or not) and are weaker than everyone else with all other nen types. Manipulation would be the 2nd weakest because it's nothing for anyone to just possess himself and become immuned to other manipulators with minimum efforts.
2:31 a youtuber whos active in their comment section is pretty rare
I really do try to springboard most of these kinds of videos into a discussion. I've full on actually changed my opinion on a few things or become more open to other potential theories or ways of viewing stuff (unsurprisingly, mostly regarding Nen) thanks to the people commenting. While it's not my primary reason for making vids, it's a big part of it.
I thought manipulators and conjurers had a high chance of developing their hatsu into the specialized catagory.
Nah, it' supposed to be really rare. We've yet to see or hear about anyone undergoing it. Milluki may be the potential candidate.
Conjuration is much better. I do always think that conjuring a gun or a spear that has a long range, is much more formidable. Guns can kill manipulators before they can react.
Conjuraton and Manipulation get a natural boost from the Writer just FROM having 0% in Specialization
Aw yeah its overthinking time
I love when the overthinker says this, and then he overthinks all over the place
I think emission is the worse affinity to have. You are straight up shooting aura outside of your body and you dont really keep the aura you use foe your abilities and its just weaker by default due to the aura just not being in your body.
I can only think of one or two good Emitters off the top of my head. It's a pretty bad category
Emission is the worst combat ability. Emitters and enhancers are both brute force talents that rely on dumping tons of energy into basic attacks. Problem is that even for natural emitters, disconnecting aura from your body weakens it. This puts emitters at a permanent disadvantage against enhancers. All other categories use restrictions and creativity to create versatile techniques. While weaker than enhancers in raw power these techniques usually give an edge against the more simplistic fighting style of a typical enhancer. In some cases the techniques even make the user genuinely unbeatable within certain niches.
In other words, enhancers have the most raw power. Everyone except emitters use skill to overcome the enhancers raw power. And emitters rely on raw power while being much weaker than the only other group to do so. Making them useless against the more versatile and skill oriented members of the other categories.
Another hot as hell take! Dope.
I respectfully disagree. If you'd like to hear more about my thoughts on why I actually think Emission's the best combat-attunable hatsu, I suggest my previous video l, which goes into detail on this exact topic.
I'll quickly address your point about raw power though: the 2 most destructive hatsu we've seen in the series have been Netero's Zero Hand and Meruem's Rage Blast. Both of which are Emission-based.
@@theoverthinker348 I've watched the video, and you're wrong about everything except the potential versatility of "transfer" as an emission category.
Emission is horrible for nen beasts as they require either transmutation or conjuration to create. Anyone wanting to use a nen beast is better off being a conjurer for that 60% manipulation affinity than being an emitter who needs to deal with 40% conjuration affinity to make their beast.
Enhancers have a far better placement than emitters on the chart. I know you bring this up in the video, but dismissing it because of how simplistic most enhancers are was a bad choice. Most emitters in the series are just as simplistic as most enhancers. You changed your mind because emitters have gotten a lot of focus in recent chapters, so enhancement's superior position on the chart would obviously make it the best if Togashi ever gives that category the same attention.
Most of the abilities used to highlight the potential of emitters can be performed with other categories. The only exception would be the ability to transfer thoughts, experiences, and damage to others. And while opponents who can reflect damage are often difficult to deal with, they're also hard countered by intelligent/creative opponents which describes all halfway proficient conjurers.
Lastly, are you really using Netero and Meruem to claim emission is more destructive than enhancement? Netero is a natural enhancer and using that attack nearly killed him. Meruem was a monster before the Rose went off, and his rage blast was performed after he got a power boost by absorbing Youpi's essence. This is such a blatantly dishonest argument. Razor is the best normal emitter we've seen. His destructive power is absolutely pathetic compared to Uvogin who also relies mainly on raw strength.
I've made this argument under every video in this series, but it bears repeating. Every single Nen user is most threatened by the same thing. Another Nen user. So what is more threatening than a Nen user? Either an armed Nen user, or multiple Nen users. Both of which are provided by Conjuration above all other categories including Specialization. I mean, Kastro's ability is a level 6 Conjuration Hatsu operating at only 60% power. That means that Kastro's ability, which doesn't even have any restrictions, can be made over 3 times stronger without needing to restrict yourself. So you could have 3 clones, or 1 clone that can stay in the battle long term, all for no restriction whatsoever.
Also, you say minimal prep time, but developing a Hatsu takes months, so I'm assuming our fighters both had months to prepare a Hatsu before the battle, otherwise they're just using the basic principles. In that case, Enhancement always wins. If a Conjuror has a Hatsu, then they've surely already prepped it before battle, as that's the other great strength of Conjuration. Kurapika is always ready to fight because he keeps his chain ready, for instance. In that case, a Conjuror can easily keep a series of powerful weapons or clones at the ready at all times. In this way, Conjuration requires even less prep time than Enhancement at the time of the battle's start. It requires negative prep time.
I would argue that Conjuration is actually the absolute strongest Nen category by far, as with it, one can create the absolute most threatening thing for any Nen user. Remember, we're not talking about the specific characters we see in the series here. We're talking about general application. That means that the limits of each category must be considered, and Conjuration reaches the absolute highest peak of every other category.
I believe that Netero, Meruem, Hisoka, Illumi, and Chrollo combined would lose to a single Conjurer. Yes. I'm that confident that Conjuration is the strongest. Pit the absolute pinnacle of each other category against me at the same time, and I'd still win if I was given sufficient time to develop the Hatsu of my choice. And I wouldn't cheese it by creating a Hatsu just for them either. It would be a general purpose ability that could be applied in any fight.
Nooooooow that's a HOT take! Good man!
First and foremost: the premise is that combatants have an already developed hatsu. Also, don't view this as a tournament setting where combatants know who they're going to fight. It CAN be a tournament setting, but I was speaking in very general terms which encompass anything from a structured tournament-style setup to one nen user provoking a fight with another on the street for no better reason that pure battle lust (Hisoka-style).
Manipulation and (especially) Conjuration thrive on prep time and good info. But my setup explicitly and purposefully disallows excessive prep time, since what is being judged is a category's abstracted and generalized capacity to wage combat in against any opponent, in (almost) any setting under varied cirmumstances.
If your argument is that conjuration is the best category with sufficient knowledge and enough prep time for a user to create a tailor-made hatsu to counter an opponent than I'd say it's just behind those specialists that can create their own hatsu (i.e. aren't awakened to them).
I'm at work now and typed this out quickly inbetween classes. Hope I didn't misunderstand your point.
@@theoverthinker348 Their argument seems to be that all nen users have the same weakness in that only another nen user can hurt them. Since conjurers can create duplicates of themselves, a cloning ability is theoretically the most powerful hatsu possible.
@@MrDj232 Exactly. That, alongside the fact that Kurapika created over 7 Hatsu in 6 months, means that a Conjurer can be ready for literally everything in a relatively short period of time. If cloning, which already casts a wide net, has a blind spot, then just create another item to cover said blind spot.
@@theoverthinker348 I was specifically talking about cloning as an ability.
If Kastro, who sucked, can make a fully Nen capable clone without even setting restrictions, then a proper Conjurer can do the same. Nen users fear Nen users. Therefore the strongest possible ability is the ability to create Nen users. Since only Conjurers can create Nen users, they are the strongest by default.
@@ClashBluelight Kurapika is practically a specialist though. Creating a team of clones that each have a different nen affinity would probably need a strong lean towards specialization.
Personally I prefer my own theoretical hatsu, Pagemaster's Ink. By conjuring ink onto blank pages I create a nen space based on a fictional setting. With some restrictions to guarantee I can drag people in and they can't brute force their way out, it's basically unbeatable. If I'm being nice or hiding people in my space it can be something as benign as a Dr Seuss book. If I'm fighting someone... well, let's just say nobody is still a threat after facing a long jaunt.
I’d argue transmuter is the worst from a basic combat perspective because it takes more thought and care than the others. Technically specialist is worse because it’s more innate and thus the chance of you getting something combat oriented vs not is up in the air so let’s ignore that for the categories you have more control over.
Enhancer: I enhance my body and attack a target.
Emitter: I create a new bullet and fire it at someone.
Conjurer: I create a weapon and attack with it. Using shu to add nen to the weapon to make it useful.
Manipulator: while the mind control aspect require conditions which could be hard to meet in a fight, there is still the object control usage where you hurl stuff or control inanimate puppets to attack your opponent.
Transmuter: you have to transmute your aura into something that can cause damage, transmute your body into something that can cause damage, or transmute your opponent or area into something that can cause damage or hinder them. Because of this, more input is needed for a transmuter ability to be combat effective.
You could just transmute your aura to give it slashing properties like Gon's "scissors" move. Just imagine that on a 100% transmuter.
@@saparapatepete while fair, Gon's application isn't purely transmutation as it did require conditions to work.
Next up is a question, we've seen people in the series use their hands like knives or spears, is this an example of transmuting their aura to be sharp, or enhancing their hands to be durable enough to pull off the attack. If the former, then that would be a point in it's favor as that was something that people could do easily even if they weren't a transmuter so it wouldn't take away memory space from their actual ability. If the latter, how much memory would be needed to apply sharpness to your aura, and how effective would it compared to using ten or shu to achieve the same effect?
Continuing with the latter assumption, you would need to shape the normally amorphous aura into something that could make use of it's sharp property.
Lastly, still going with the latter assumption that this does require memory space to understand and isn't something that can be done on the fly, what is the likelihood of someone picking this application over others. That they won't deliberate more over what they want their ability to be. A conjured object can still be used as a weapon even if it wasn't the original purpose, and manipulation small objects to hurl at enemies strikes me as something that could be done on the fly.
@@TheDefectiveAI Comparing it to shu is a really good reference in terms of raw power. In the case of making a slashing aura, the advantage is that aura is amorphous and can be shaped by a skilled nen user, like gon's scissors and Machi's threads. The slashing aura could have multiple modes. Also one can give aura multiple properties, to make it work like a substance or material that doesn't exists like Hizoka's bungee gum which makes aura elastic and sticky. One could complement the slashing property with something else, maybe making it work like a gas, so the opponent gets cut on the insides if they breathe that air-like aura or some heat seeking properties. Naturally those would need to be used carefully by the user so they don't cut themselves.
@@saparapatepete But with that, would this be something that would require more thought and consideration than say a conjurer that just needs to copy a weapon before they can start fighting or a manipulator that just needs to find object that they are strong enough to use in attacks without conditions.
There is a correct answer. The answer is specialist, because of how ill defined it is.
The Goat morel use manipulation enough said about the whole category 😊
Enchantment wbd specialist are the best combat oriented
Can't argue with that!
Let’s go new overthinker video
Nen beasts arent conjured. Only nen users can see them, they arent conjuration. They are EMITTED nen that has been MANIPULATED and given special properties.
if your non a specialist you can’t have proficiency in it
There is no worst category for combat.
In my opinion transmutation is the weakest form of nen abilities
Das a hot take. Killua, Feitan, Hisoka and few others would object to that, I'd say.
But fair.
Definitely forget techniques. Those are the worst.