What If Technocracy Succeeded? | Alternate History
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- Опубліковано 7 лют 2025
- During the Great Depression a movement which gained large amounts of traction within the United States was the Technocratic Movement, a system which sought to put the most intelligent of society in charge of national functions, and envisioned the creation of a self-sufficient united North American unit known as the North American Technate. So what exactly did the Technocrats want to do for America? Why didn't Technocracy succeed? What if Technocracy had succeeded? This is the subject of today's alternate history scenario.
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#AlternateHistory #MonsieurZ #Technocracy
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Monsieur Z any way you can say what it’s is
Also hi
I can't help but wonder what the effects of automation would have been in this timeline. What happens when the worker drones become unnecessary?
Monsieur Z I wish the video called What if the Cold War heated up should be remake. Because during that time South Korea has a lot of highly skilled soldier and generals. They armed with anti communism and highly experienced during the Korean War and Vietnam war. Also, they led by the fully anti-communist president Park Chung hee.
Great video. I’d say it was better explained than your last technocracy video
Lvl 5 Technocracy : Engineers and Scientits runs the Government
Lvl 55 Technocracy : Super Intelligent Machine Learning Artifical Intelligent runs the Goverment
Lvl 95 : Matrix
That's how technocracy works.
Lvl 100: Engineers and Scientits runs the Government inside of the Matrix
Did you spell "Scientits" on purpose? lol
@@ДаниилРабинович-б9п lVL 100: YOU'RE JUST FUCKED !!!!!
Synthetic Technocracy
Quest started:
*The house always wins I*
Dr Gabe Fallout New Vegas, my favourite quote from Mr House:"If you want to see the fate of democracies, look out the window"
@@longwlenguyen4214 If you want to see the fate of tyrants, also look out the window. NCR and proud
SovietKnight Nice dude you should have said "tyrants" it sound better
@@themilkman7520 that's why someone who doesn't use violent force as a default negotiation tactics is the best chance for humanity
@@longwlenguyen4214 Thanks for the suggestion.
While I disagree with many parts of technocracy, I absolutely do agree that only the most qualified people should hold certain positions. For example: Why the f*ck is the head of the EPA a politician? He should be an ecologist or something!
and not a member of the oil industry
For sure man, agreed
@@ldmt1995 free market, son.
usually politicians know something about their cabinet before getting into office. have you ever heard of a ministry of education that wasn't part of the education system? i bet not. but when it comes to ecology, why the fuck would they have to be a specialized ecologist to understand basic things like pollution, energy generation and efficiency, ecosystems and other easy stuff that a 5th grader understands? another thing is that these cabinets have CONSULS, which help them govern. and they can't pass laws without the parliament. easy, right? fuck off tehnocrat
I pretty much agree but I think the major department heads should be elected to avoid conflict of interest
I have said for a long time, "We should temper our democracy with a little more technocracy".
My favorite example is that drugs should be classified for legal control, not by Congress voting for a substance to be put on "Schedule I" or "Schedule II", but by the Surgeon General and the NIH actually, y'know, STUDYING it, and classifying it based on its actual observed harmful qualities and medicinal uses.
yeah conservatives and liberals are retarded
As long as there are stupid, greedy and arrogant politicians, corporate officials, as long as there are corrupt global and local media, any such idea will be stifled from the start. Personally, I believe that humanity is likely to face degradation, decay, and then extinction, because at the moment it not only strives with all its might for this, but also fully deserves it.
@@astartes3280 We have risen above horror in the past, remember.
Unspeakable horror.
@@astartes3280 extinction is kind of a stretch. decay, yes but if the Earth remains livable, i don't think humanity is going anywhere
@@syedabishosainrizvi7817 Our species will probably survive - as hunter-gatherers and as peasant agrarians ruled over by parasitic warlords.
As a rapidly-developing technological civilization headed out into the Universe? Not a fucking chance, unless we take radical action against an enemy far more destructive and implacable than totalitarian governments or feudal backwardness.
I took the study course offered by Technocracy Inc. back in the 1980's. I learned far more about critical thinking and the basic postulates of science in Technocracy than I did in public school.
This because the objective of the public schools is not make you learn critical thinking, its the opposite of that
Yeah because the people who taught u that run the school system that brainwashed ppl on mass anyone who disagrees look up tragedy and hope by quarrel quiggly
Technocracy is a form of Radical Centrism. Its built on three pillars: Intellect/Skill, Meritocracy, Pragmatism. It's about efficiency and fairness. And no I don't mean equality. Equality is not the same as Fairness.
@Burning City China has been described as State-Capitalist. As in the state controls where capital ends up. Technocracy would only do such things if necessary. As far as I know the members of the Chinese Communist Party are not selected by merit, I've heard that many positions are inherited, or judged by loyalty to the parties ideas. In a Technocracy you are given a position based on what your skilled in. And if you work hard you'll get a higher position. The PRC is also very warlike, which Technocracy is not unless it has to be. War causes chaos and a loss of resources and people. This generally helps no one and only brings negative results. As to how it politically handles itself it is not balanced, the state companies control a large portion of the economy, but that is not balanced by other measures, such as a secure private base. Yes their is now privatization in the PRC but it is not on the same level as the state companies power. The PRC isnt an example of Technocracy to me. I find Singapore and Switzerland to be closer to it.
@Vladislav LB Well Old Europe is more aristocratic in it's mentality.
@@bramsturk619 Hmmm. Well I was mainly pointing to Switzerlands strong Meritocratic characteristics. But you make some good points yourself.
@@bramsturk619 I'm a Technocrat myself, Mr. Bram.
@@bramsturk619 Do you have discord?
I was one of the few people of my generation to actually take the time to investigate Technocracy Inc. The core ideas are a system of scientific governance, and an economy based on energy and resources rather than "trading tokens" based on the concept of value (money).
@@nikhilprem7998 yeah they shouldnt be given the position just because theyre loyal to some powerful politicians
@@CodyWoofter11 politicians? You mean oligarchs with special interests.
Same here', I also took the study course.
Atlas shrugged pts 1-3?
As long as there are stupid, greedy and arrogant politicians, corporate officials, as long as there are corrupt global and local media, any such idea will be stifled from the start. Personally, I believe that humanity is likely to face degradation, decay, and then extinction, because at the moment it not only strives with all its might for this, but also fully deserves it.
Probably the closest we have come to an actual technocracy was China during the Tang dynasty (the empire that existed in China when Rome ruled Europe). Under the Tang all government servants were required to prove their merit by passing a series of rigorous national exams - basically a bit like passing the bar exam, or acing the mcats. For the most part it was considered a pretty good system at the beginning, and led to only brilliant, well educated, and driven people to be in charge. It eventually declined and fell into decay, largely due to wealthy bureaucrats bribing their children through the exams until eventually passing the imperial examination was closer to a rubber stamp than a rigorous pursuit of scholarship. It's legacy survived though, inspiring many governments to adopt an exam system to vet future employees, and the East India Company (which effectively ruled India and is the closest thing we've seen to a megacorporation assuming total control of the government) used exams to determine employee promotions, so it too was a technocracy in a sense.
That's interesting. But Tang didnt exist when all of Rome did, it existed after Rome split and Eastern Rome/Byzantium fortified itself as Western Rome fell. The only way for Tang to survive is if there is no rise of Islam to begin with, meaning it isnt preoccupied with warding off the Muslims moving forward- or if the An Lushan Rebellion hadn't occurred.
I also thought of two other points in time.
First, if the Islamic World hadn't been trampled by the Mongols, or had managed to seize Europe, meaning less strife from Christianity in the west, their "Golden Age" of Science could've continued unhindered. In the 13th century, if the inventions of Islamic Polymaths had been implemented, we wouldve gotten an earlier Industrial Revolution in Indo-Persia, as well as proto-robotics and a meritocratic governing system. If China had proto-industrialized in the 11th-13th Centuries under the Song Dynasty (perhaps thanks to Wang Anshi's reforms), they couldve warded off any Mongols and their ideas wouldve spread to the Islamic world, mixing with the sciences and arts there. China had a Printing Press at the time, and high Agricultural yield, as well as Oil reserves to the north.
Secondly, if Dara Shikoh assumed rule in Mughal China instead of Aurangzeb, the latter's religious fundamentalism and conservatism would never take hold and instead the aim for Perennialism, Mysticism and Liberalism would. India was in the midst of a Proto-Industrial Revolution and under Shikoh, it would be more likely to unify as he was religiously tolerant, being less caught up in religious/ethnic divisions. This creates an emphasis on Enlightenment that would mix with the art and science of the Dutch traders particularly. If India can hold off against the British colonization, it's poised for Industrialization and the creation of a sort of Hindu/Buddhist-inspired Technocracy.
I would argue the USSR under Brezhnev was closer. Of the 19 full members of the Politburo, 16 were trained engineers or had other technical background in various fields.
@@kurtmill9080Byzantium was rome, byzantine empire is a mordern term, that started to be use after the fall of Constantinople
Yes, but the imperial exam is kind of dumb. Why would a minister of agriculture need to memorize god knows how many century old poems?
I kinda agree with technocracy, I think the head of the department of agriculture should be a farmer, etc for other government positions
Edit: I held this view when I was going through a Secular phase in my life. I no longer hold this view now I'm more aligned to a Monarchist and Reactionary Catholic lense
That makes sense. But technocracy takes it one step further
@@ZemanTheMighty that's why kinda support
The current Secretary of Agriculture was a farmer for many years before he got involved in politics. That’s not quite what you’re looking for but it’s pretty close.
@@benjamingrist6539 Yeah that´s the best case scenario with the current system. Hope when they´re making nominations, they give priority to people with experience in the field.
I'm for a mix. You must have merit in order to be a candidate, but you are elected by the people and you are bound by your campaign promises. All politicians must have basic knowledge of economics, law, and state craft.
What if the United States of America was actually the United States of America?(In other words what if the U.S. spread it's manifest Destiny southwards?)
Mapping Mapping that would be amazing. Greenland to Panama
@@goldenrepublic6848 why stop at Panama, from greenland to the tail of Antarctica
@@goldenrepublic6848 why stop at Panama, from greenland to the tail of Antarctica
That one legionary I would like South America to be under the influence of the us and I would want the us to control Antarctica for its resources and the amount of land it does has.
@aja a I can say you're full of shit seeing as it is the number one destination for South American Migrants.
Nice inclusion of Oswald Mosley there, i wonder if his post war idea of 'European Socialism/ Europa a nation' could become the ideological precursor for a truly United Europe?
@The Ranter Wrong, he just wanted Europeans to find common ground and stand United. Not like the EU dictatorship where our borders are open, law and order are a mere memory. Stabbings, shootings, drugs, diseases rampant, etc.
@@jamesthomas5109 U a brit, right? If so, get your anti-EU facts straight. The UK always managed to get the good parts of being in the EU and opt out of the one's it didn't want.
Schengen agreement was one of those things. The UK was not a part of it, and always had control of their borders and immigration, so letting in immigrants, then blaming the EU in order to gain UK citizen's trust is one of the most brit moves ever.
@@jamesthomas5109 it doesnt rly matter the proposed motives nor the founding members for the points I brought up. Nothing I said is untrue, you Brits always managed to politically wiggle yourselves to the better end of the deals, and it was always UK first.
@The Ranter Utter bs, and btw I'm not involved with any iron heart type shit anyway. Got any better ideas do you?
@The Ranter I meant I support unity between nationalist parties in Europe, not the eu as it is today. Where theres open borders, not stop criminality, etc. Sounds much better than the crime ridden, degenerate state countries like the UK, Germany, France etc are in today.
"It attracted the disillusioned average citizen who just wanted the Depression to end without terrible bloodshed... and, eventually, it did."
_Laughs in WWII_
without terrible bloodshed was stated
@Anessen no it doesn’t. We started millions of jobs in arms industry and army. Sold weapons to the allies and soviets. And while everyone was bombed and damage we suffered no damages and helped rebuild those countries by giving it loans and selling the materials. Also Germany and japan had to pay war cost.
What If The Kaiser Returned To Germany Instead of Hitler going to power?
Got mit uns
He was exiled. He couldn’t come back under the republic or under nazi Germany, He even said that he never wanted to see Germany again.
Bolshevik Boi Most of the Weimar Republic leaders and generals all wanted the monarchy back. But nothing was really all that serious unless a alternate timeline
@Keaton Harris i think that a best case scenario would be that Soviets conoquer Poland and then Proceed to attack Germany, this way It would be Germany who would be defending itself so allies would fight with Germany against soviets. And if Hitler played nice he would probably get Danzig (but i honestly doubt it) This was Russia would be rid of communism and Mao would probably never rise to power without Soviet support
@@faisalkhurshid8503 Maybe they did want the monarchy back, but the monarch didn't.
0:30 The symbol of that organization is similar to the Taegeuk(태극), the symbol of Korean flag.
And I always thought the Taeguk looks similar to both the Pepsi logo but I already know it was based on the Yin and Yang symbol.
ikr
It looks like a perverted yin-yang
@@northatlanticcommonwealth1188 sure but also perverted
@@northatlanticcommonwealth1188 #Thank
It almost sounds like a Fallout world, the Technocrats probably would've made nuclear power very prevalent.
PASTRAMIKick I dissagreed with you, the differences is that the Fallout world USA is rule by oligarchic military and corporatist sociopath, while Technocratic USA is rule by experts in the field of science, physics, biology and others scientifically progress that benefits the country growth. I agreed the both world nearly have similar technology but I think the Technocrats may have invented the transistors and have better technology in the future, and Technocrat America have no interested in communism so to say their cold war is less destruction than ours and the Fallout world since it just Europe Technocrats and the Soviet competing while the Fallout did not have transsistors that led to the stagnation of technology lead to the oil crisis, and a brutal cold war that turn America into a totalitarian state in pursuit stupidity of ideology conflict that result the nuclear apocalyptic wasteland that Fallout set in.
@@longwlenguyen4214 I think he meant the Institute in Fallout 4.
Jeanel Jay Lamputi We are talk about pre war Fallout America not post war because he was thinking the Technocrat America and Falout USA were the same technology since the both diverge alternate timeline after ww2 but the ideology of both world are different Technocratic USA is a bit more socialistic and non intervention which allow the Soviet and Europe Technocrat the only dominance superpowers which hilariously more technologically advance beneficial for the economy and society and much more peaceful than the war mongering totalitarian nationalistic Fallout world which always on a brink of war because of ideology war of stupidity and all of Fallout world scientists are insane and most of their technology are based on war rather than benefits for mankind.
I would probably call it “Militant Technocracy”
I first encountered the organizatoin of Technocracy Inc. back in the 1980's. I was one of the few people of my generation to actually study Technocracy's proposals. The core ideas are a system of scientific governance, and a distribution system based on energy and resources rather than barter (money). The study course Technocracy offered was a basic introduction to scientific methods and critical thinking. Although I studied math, physics, and chemistry, in high school, they never mentioned the basic postulates upon which science is built. Nor did public school teach anything about the definition of a fact and how facts differ from opinions. I am greatful for having had a chance to meet and talk with many of the interesting and educated people I met at Technocracy Inc.
Fascinating!
ua-cam.com/video/H7QlOTi86Nk/v-deo.html
Did you seriously not know the difference between facts and opinions?
Honestly I trust a scientist in power more then one of many idiotic eighty year olds that barely know the concept of most issues today
Edit: Vent post from back when I was younger don’t take seriously
I wouldn't, but then most people have forgotten all the experiments done in the name of science that shouldn't have.
@@brodriguez11000 *cough* soviet scientists
@Dzie Kuje it is needed true but the question is, is it still necessary when your life or relative's life on the line, science is impartial and empirical, one day you'll get selected to a test subject role like its jury duty.
There are a lot of Chemists ended up politics
@Knobcore well that's courtesy of ethics and regulations. But there are some situations where things can turn for the worse like Tuskegee experiment. They know the long term effects of syphilis, they also have the cure, but still they experiment with human beings without their full knowledge and consent.
People in the US don't seem to be content with how the economy is treating the middle class, Technocracy might have another chance
Quite frankly, I hope it does.
I’m on board if someone starts it. I wouldn’t mind dying on Mars
Imagine elon musk ruling the US lol :D
I don't think most people in the US would like full-on technocracy, but people may adopt some of its tenets, like having experts guiding policy decisions, but not directly controlling the economy.
@@hdog9046 I think I wouldn't mind having a team of expert economists dictating certain aspects of the economy. Probably a better deal than all the shills that currently laud that power - since the economists know that if the entire economy is good in the long run, they also get paid, unlike these short-sighted cash cows.
This was fun to listen to. I would love to hear you talk more about how a technocracy might go wrong. Like how the rulling class might try to make it too hard to get an education to join the rulling elite.
Or how people with repeated low work production would be thrown out, creating once again a broke segment of the population.
I wonder how technocracy would deal with genetic abnormalities.
Or more importantly: *How those in charge of deciding who qualifie@ as smart or skilled enough to be a leader might become corrupt or chose their friends or family*
What if China modernized and japan became communist
What if the heavenly kingdom won the Taiping rebellion
What if the European powers never colonized the Middle East
Keep redoing those old videos, you're doing great!
China was not communist. It was socialist. So do you mean Japan gradually achieved communism from the establishment of socialism or did they achieve communism after the success of a revolution (Anarcho communism) without dictatorship of the proletariat.
I'm not naming the specific type of communism that would effect Japan, nor what group or prevalent ideology takes power, I'm just naming the concept.
I'm thinking, because of China's modernization, however that may happen, they would loose one of the wars with either Russia or China, disillusioning the people from the Emperor resulting in a socialist revolution and take over. I'm not naming what specific socialist ideology takes power, I'm just naming the concept. Thinking about it now though, what you said should be included in the concept, to help differentiate communist Japan in this timeline to socialist China in our timeline. Thank you for your response.
China modernize and Japan became communist? Actually that would be a long video and it is possible, if Japan is still under shogunates or controlled by warlords, it may spark communism. If Qing Dynasty somehow made the country to Constitutional monarchy, they can modernize, by hiring Sun Yat Sen as the prime minister...
Although that will require more videos...
@@LazyAndFabulous I completely didn’t even consider those points, which would be very interesting scenarios themselves, however, for the scenario I hinted at, I would like to be during the Meiji Restoration, as despite its upsides there were during the countries transition countless problems that could have led to an overthrow of the Emperor and communism taking over. Good on you also for reminding me about Sun Yat Sen, he would be a game changer in the scenario.
I’ve always wondered what the heck Technocracy was.
I thought that the Technocracy was the society where robots serve humans. Basically private owned businesses use robots and automation, then that automation gets taxed by the government and that income is given to people who cannot find a job due to automation until 90%+ of jobs are machine managed and humans live in prosperity without the need of work or anything
I guess i was wrong
@Kaname Locon *I guess i was wrong*
@@abyssstrider2547 you're not entirely wrong. that's more along the lines of modern day technocracy
@@lordilluminati5836 So i was right!
@@abyssstrider2547 that's more mechanist servitor than technocracy. Technocracy is basically making experts having the means of governing a field where they are well-educated on( farmer must have the say regards to agriculture, engineer with infrastructure, scientists with research)... though I'm more of a guild-like technocrat enthusiast myself, having agriculture, engineering/logistics, science having departments and political power equal, but only ruling a very specific part of society.
What if the fall of the Soviet Union became a Civil war and both scenarios on either sides winning
It became, in Yugoslavia...
Actually War of Chechnea happened so that can be imagined that full of Russia would be like that.
Caucasian Region, Black Sea Region and Siberia vs Moscow Central Government.
But that would be interesting since Chechnea lost ot Russia but a big margin war would push Russia far more dependent on Western Power I guess
@@ЖудаМ Yugoslavia opposed the Soviets, it wasn't even communist but socialist. Like modern day France or Germany
@@abyssstrider2547 what? Germany or France aren't socialist, they're social democracies
@@neoyuls Yeah? That's what i said.
I discovered Technocracy when I was 16 or 17 and was persuaded then that it would be the most appropriate organization of our economy and society. I still think so 50 years later. I just don't think humanity is smart enough to choose the most appropriate organization. We are far too emotional of a species, we want to love or hate or fear our government, and we want this far more than we want competence and rationality. The discussion goes far overboard in comparisons to Communism and what not. If one sought to use reason one would not choose a government based on force and exploitation, it doesn't work.
Even well intentioned governments will stomp on it's people if given enough power to do so.
I know it now I am 10
Well said sir.
And that position is exactly the problem with technocracy.
If you extract emotion out of governence you will end up prioritization of the system over the people. Gruesome human experimentation for the purposes of removing desease, elimination of sex and its replacement with artificial insemination and elimination of culture seeing as culture promotes free thinking would make people measerable and will accelerate our self-destruction.
Having a government that uses emotion and force is better. And technocracy would itself use force. It's as Mr. Z says:
Techbocrach would be an Orwellian hell.
@@Wendeta-hq2cp A lynching is emotional, a trial by jury based on facts is rational. Yes, I prefer a government founded on reason, evidence, science and law over a government founded on emotion whether it be love or hate. The United States was founded on the thought of the Enlightenment , and that was a good first step. Yet we can do even better. I would not choose a Government based on whatever your emotion du jour may be, I would also not wish to impose a government based on my emotions. Technocracy is probably an ideal form which is unreachable due to the limitations of human emotions, but the closer we can get, the better off we'd be. P.S. You should read Orwell's Nineteen Eighty-four, the government therein is founded on the manipulation of the emotions of the masses on behalf of Big Brother. Your "Utopia" is truly Orwellian.
Admittedly the Great Depression didn’t end without bloodshed, it continued until world war 2 brought rather extreme incentive to start producing lots of weapons, war machines, and supplies.
ya and then the massive amount of excess machinery, materials, and loose capital lead to a large amount of opportunity for businesses to surge, plus since the government spent 10 years basically paying everyone, consumer spending would finally lift the economy
Man, the Technocratic Union ain't joking around with Pentax anymore.
I've always found many elements of Technocracy fascinating and attractive.
You describe them as "socialistic" yet I don't find that quite accurate. Their focus on cooperation is similar to the fascist idea of patriotism to the state.
I see technocracy as the alternative to the two political systems of the 20th century and a sort of middle ground between them.
Yeah it does sound like a mix of Fascism and Communism
This video did have some things right about Technocracy Inc., but there was also some misinformation.
@@abyssstrider2547 so is it like radical centrism?
@@francmarcus8433 Kinda, i mean look at their flag it's got a bloody ying yang symbol on it.
The followers should be middle class and the lower class shouldn’t exist, the higher class should then therefore be the leaders, I wonder why we don’t recognize that...
One of your more interesting videos lately, I was always fascinated by the Technocracy
This video had some things correct about the Technocracy movement, but there's also some misinformation.
Join us, we are still around and have a Facebook page.
@@dianedong1062 mm hmm? Like what? You never explained anything
Wonderful video! The introduction to Technocracy was nicely conducted, however I will say we wouldn't use a 'certificate of distribution', but an 'energy certificate'. All goods and services, by the physical Laws of Thermodynamics, require a certain amount of energy in the form of, say, kilowatt-hours (for machinery) or kilocalories (in humans, and 1 kwH = ~860 kcal) to produce. This amount of energy is measurable and is not affected by speculation or inflation like money (it is only affected if natural forces or better machinery either increase or reduce the amount of energy needed to produce the same good or service). The plan is that every two years the total amount of energy produced by our nuclear reactors, solar farms, marine energy, etc. would be counted and then distributed to each citizen on something that would look like a modern-day credit card that will also serve as an ID. That way, when citizens buy a good or service, they spend their allotment of energy by however much it was used to make that product. Every two years, everyone's account will be wiped and the Energy Survey will be conducted again.
Our understanding in the leader-follower policy are called 'the pecking rights', as, for example, if you put a cluster of chickens into a coop together, they will naturally form a strata of hierarchy amongst themselves where one chicken has 'pecking rights' over another, and that chicken has 'pecking rights' over another under it, and that one and so on and so forth. The Technate Administration will be composed of the hundred of so independent 'Functions' that produce each and every good and service in our civilization (the Agriculture Function, the Armed Forces Function, the Space Tech Function, the Education Function). Therefore, your job will automatically be part of the Government, and if you do well in your job you would naturally be promoted up and up to a position that would naturally suit your innate and cultivated pecking rights. If someone is the leader of a Function, she will be called the Director of that Function, and if someone is the leader of The North American Technate, she will be called the Chief Engineer.
We're still here.
Too bad a Technocracy party, as far as I know, doesn't exist in American politics. I would defiantly consider joining if I found one. This ideology is the closest to my beliefs.
@Anthony Timmers Do you have a better solution? Because from how I read it, that is saying that no matter what we do nothing will work.
@Anthony Timmers I'm all for checks and balances to stop power hungry people from getting power, I just believe that only the most intelligent and level headed should be the leaders, as they are the only ones that will not doom a nation.
what happens if you hate your job and wanted to return to school to try somthing else out would you be able to or no?
I'm libright but this is very appealing. I generally don't want politicians controlling me, but if it's people who know what they're doing I'd be cool with it.
Same
I like Sociocracy,
It's a mix of Democracy and Technocracy.
> Democracy
> Technocracy
> mix
...
How???
Write some more about it, courius
Great video mate, big fan from England.
I didn't know what a Technocracy was.
... Turns out there's a name for that thing i've been saying would have been a better alternative to conventional occupational politicians.
No offense, but a technocracy is a type of oligarchy, and the most likely result of a technocracy is just like every other type of oligarchy, some form of plutocracy or aristocracy.
@@benjaminwinnie4626 : Problem is all these...alternatives, is they somehow expect human behavior to be different across all of them. An educated person is still human with all the fallibilities, and even more so because of pride and hubris.
What if the Mongols discovered America by going through Russia into Alaska?
What if the Rurikids stayed true to Rurik's original goal and never adopted Slavic culture and religion instead trying to Germanify the region and establish an Eastern Norse Realm?
What if the British Celts defeated the Anglo Saxons?
What if Attila the Hun didn't die early?
What if the First Earth Battalion was fully embraced by the U.S. Military?
...was that last one a MWSAG reference?
Why would the Mongols ever invade siberia? Just a vast wasteland thats hard to control and has no real resources the Mongols could use. All that manpower that would be needed to inade Siberia are much better used to subdue revolts or invade Europe further.
Atilla would take over all Germanic lands and cause Germanic people to go settle at Rome even more or he would change his mind and destroy the Rome himself.Atilla was going to sack the Rome but a group inculiding Pope with gifts cried him to stop and Pope bowed in front of him and Rome survived.Maybe if he lived longer he would change his mind and destroy the Roman Empire,causing a Turkic country at Italy or other parts of Europe.Maybe after Seljuks came those two Turkic countries would be rivals.
what if the heavenly kingdom won the taiping rebellion?
Think the killing fields of Paul Pot's Cambodia 70 years earlier and 10 times as large
Oh shit Emineco it’s you, I used to be on your discord
Simple. It would have been overthrown.
@@joemama-qy4fb lmao you could say that about any chinese state, probably and country in general. Given enough time, any regime will collapse. It is inevitable.
Unfortunately for Humanity, Humanity got in the way of Humanities' ambitions.
Ah yes, the blue sky is made out of blue
Oh the old myth that people of science Can't be bought...
Of course they (we) can be bought, but the thing with scientific work is that it does not operate on an individual's opinion. Science became what we know it as today when scientific method was formulated so no matter what an individual thinks and says, it MUST satisfy the scientific method or it is thrown out. There were many great names in science, authorities, who made wrong claims and stuck to them - but when scientific method does not support you, you are done.
So in a society that governs the right or wrong based on scientific method and not by what someone feels or says, it would not matter that much if an individual is bought or not. You can see it in for instance tobacco and oil industry - they've spent countless millions to pay for studies that showed that tobacco and oil are good or at least not as bad as scientific community claims.
In the end, it was wasted money because those managers did not understand what a scientific method is and how it operates. To them, it was just another subjective method of a specific group of people. But it was not - it was created specifically to counter ANY subjective voice in the matter.
And that is why science and engineering are the only forces that manage to push humanity forward. Bad things get thrown away, regardless who supports them, new things come in their place and then those are tested as well.
Is the system perfect? No, there is no such thing. Yet is the best thing humanity has got. And when applied to actual society, it works wonders. For instance, prison system - it is more or less the same thing for thousands of years, someone does something bad, we lock him up as punishment, even if he gets out, he is the same or worse than when he got in. Some Scandinavian countries decided to fix the broken thing (madness is defined by doing the same thing over and over again, expecting different results) and try a more scientific approach. And now, the criminals, when they get out, have the lowest return rate in the world. Simply because they applied corrective psychology and not thousands of years old human anger driven punishment method.
You can argue with the morality of their choice, that even the most extreme criminals are not treated harshly, but science does not care. Their results speak for themselves, regardless what me, you, or anyone else thinks. It might not agree with your sense of morality (and it really does not for a majority of people in the world) but the result is - less crime and a healthier society. So, who gives a fuck what you or me think if the results are better than anything you or me want the prison system to look like? It matters only in a system where majority gets to vote based on their subjective feeling, not objective scientific truth.
And that's the thing with science - a man does not speak, a man is not relevant - results are all that matters. And in a system like that it does not matter who did you buy. If his results don't stand the scrutiny of scientific method, no one would care what he says.
To make it simple, thousand people might say that 2+2=5 and one that 2+2=4. In democracy, majority wins. But when you want to make a bridge, majority's bridge will collapse. So it is always the result that matters and not what majority, bought or not, says.
It was first conceived by Plato in "ΠΟΛΙΤΕΙΑ" where he said that classes should be based on intelligence and military training, leaders would be older than 50 years old and would have no family. He tried to teach philosophy to certain tyrants in Sicily but almost got assasinated two times. Who would have thought that "philosopher leaders" as an oligarchy would not work
@@diavasmamevroxi the problem Is the blurriness concept of intelligence and although wisdom knowledge and intelligence are surely very important for a people to thrive and prosper and all leader should be chosen accordingly when you try to put a tag that states Who Is smart and Who Is dumb things go bad very fast firstly because of the imperfection of our conception secondly because humans are mostly defined by various degrees of dumbness and even the less dumb of us tend to fall and act stupid when put in such a position
@Kaname Locon I doubt it
@Kaname Locon Doubtful, power corrupts. The only way to make it happen is if the only power they have is regulation. If you take away the many other benefits politicians get in modern politics then it's possible corruption would be minimal. But I doubt people would do governing for "free."
As a Technocrat, this leaves a tear on my face knowing that it failed and will most likely never succeed
Can u check out my latest vid. It's also about technocracy
Singapore is a soon to be technocracy
@@piglin469 True, and it's a nation of science and progress
As a comic book reader, this sounds partiality like the judge dredd universe.
Can you check out my timelines. I'd like to know what comic universes the world's I've created are like
What if Stalin’s forces aided in the siege of Warsaw leading to a Polish defeat in the Soviet-Polish war of 1919?
What if the Greeks won the Greco-Turkish war of 1922 taking territory in western Anatolia as well as Constantinople and securing access to the Black Sea?
What if Hansetic League survived?
What if Great Moravia doesn't fall?
I really like how you were able to show two distinct outcomes of technocracy, I don't actually agree that our values of freedom would end up preventing technocracy from becoming opressive because we're already seeing now how far we've come from the values of 1776 without centralising power completely into an aloof elite ruling class (key word completely) but by showing the North American technic as a freedom loving semi-utopia with the European technic an orwellian nightmare it sums up my view of technocracy and any other top-down system of government pretty well, mainly that even if in theory it ought to be more efficient and effective leadership it creates a society that's only as good as its leaders which just doesn't work in the real world
All socieities are only as good as there leaders. Capitalism does a really shit job under shitty leaders. For example Herbert hoover. Or george bush. Both of which caused major economic depressions. Right now capitalism is doing ok because it has decent leaders. Mainly Social democrats. As seen in sweden, finland, denmark, And switzerland. But if they had shit leaders. They would be doing shitty.
Switzerland has direct democracy and stayed out of constly war endeavours.
And the Scandinavian countries have a ton of resources.
These factors + classical liberal values kinda offset the shit job socialists are doing there, making them look good.
Also yeah capitalism works well when there are good leaders, like how Trump put America back on top after a brief period where China had a better economy.
Technocracy in general is scary. I would not be opposed to having an advisory council of experts though.
I appreciate that you didn’t colour Labrador as part of Canada during depression times. You accidentally missed the island seat of the Dominion of Newfoundland, but I respect your historical knowledge even more deeply for not having forgotten the little-remembered, once fourth nation of North America
Technocracy is now known as “Sustainable Development” and the leader is Klaus Schwab.
that sounds like a bureaucratic autocractic hell with extra steps
It basically is just that
Wow the old Adeptus Mechanicus looked great
Are there any books about Technocracy I can find?
Bump.
The coming corporate state by Alexander raven
The Technocracy Study Course, Copyright 1934, 1935, 1936, is one good source of information on the subject.
Kind of thinking about a modren technocracy movement.
@@Giganfan2k1 The core ideas are scientific governance and an economy based on energy and resources rather than money are still as valid today as they were back in the 1930's.
Put in scientists in the executive who work on national agendas wich are being legitimized by a council of directly ejected representatives of a respective county. That would be my dream.
As an engineer I wouldn’t mind living in a technocracy then ;)
This is more useful and pertinent than you could possibly know.
📝
Thank you.
The Omnissiah is mad you didn’t show any good mages of the Martian Tech-Mechanicus.
Save Mage the Ascension....and other White Wolf stuff for the table.
Save Mage the Ascension....and other White Wolf stuff for the table.
Save Mage the Ascension....and other White Wolf stuff for the table.
@Forest Johnson Talking about Cult Mechanicus of Mars from Warhammer 40k, but I like the Niche reference
This seems to be an ideal state if it is actually possible.
The problem is how do you determine the most skilled worker for the job? Will we have some test or something for every position? What kind of test would it be? As you might know book knowledge doesn't directly go to real life skill.
I can tell you and 100 other dude to fix this broken machine with a general tutorial, follow with writting a detailed step-to-step of how you did that.
You are qualified if you success, double qualified if your method is creative. Is it enough?
@@tungleson7066That is only possible for certain field. Also even for repairment, there is also attitude of the person, which is not easy to judge.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
00:00 🌐 Technocracy was an early 20th-century movement in the United States that aimed to replace elected politicians with skilled scientists and engineers to run the government.
01:12 🏙️ The core of technocracy was the concept of "megalopolis," vast urban areas where intellectuals and workers would manage all aspects of the national machine.
02:23 💼 In this socialistic ideology, a four-hour workday and a four-day workweek were proposed, with payment based on certificates of distribution tied to production levels.
03:06 🌍 Unlike communism, technocracy recognized that there would always be leaders and followers, aiming to have the most intelligent of society as leaders.
04:18 🇺🇸 The technocracy movement gained traction during the Great Depression as a peaceful alternative to communism but declined with the onset of World War II and economic recovery.
09:17 🌐 In an alternate history, a more widespread adoption of technocracy leads to a different outcome in World War II, with the technocrats focusing on isolationism and aiding Europe's recovery.
Made with HARPA AI
I like how the Philippines is just chilling across the map
Thank you. I have been asking you to stop having Japan and the US go to war in timeline where that make no sense or give good reason as to why they would go to war with us. This is a good example of that. Please keep up the good work.
-What if the Titanic never sank?
-What if Prohibition was never repealed?
-What if Prohibition was never signed into law?
-What if the Bay of Pigs Invasion succeeded?
-What if FDR didn’t die during his 4th term?
-What if the Great Depression never happened?
-What if the Second Vatican Counsel never took place?
-What if Ghandi wasn’t assassinated?
And here I was thinking of the Technocracy from Mage. Oh well, this was still good
With triple the free time perhaps technology would have accelerated as more people tries more things, perhaps moon colonies and orbitals by now as foreseen by some.
Your subtle savagery against the EU as an isea and socialism make me smile.
If the average person on the street had so much as an elementary education in critical thinking and the basic foundations of science, Technocracy Inc. probably would have succeeded.
I legit thought the title said “what if technology succeeded” and my brain seriously said “wait it didn’t?”
Got a lot:
1. What if the Hungarian Revolution of 1848 was successful?
2. What if Cao Cao Won at the Battle of Red Cliffs in 208 AD?
3. What if France won the Seven Years War/ French and Indian war?
4. What if England won the Hundred Years War?
5. What if the Ottoman Empire won the First Balkan war?
6. What Fidel Castro was assassinated by the C.I.A.?
7. What if the Ottoman Empire collapsed after losing the Russo-Turkish war (1806-1812)?
8. What if Ross Perot won in 1992?
9. What if Germany never unified?
10. What if the Bubonic plague wiped out all of the Islamic world, instead of 90 percent of the Islamic world like in our timeline?
11. What if Nazi Germany never surrendered in WW2?
12. What if France got their way with the Treaty of Versailles?
13. What if the U.K. got their way with the Treaty of Versailles?
14. What if the United States got their way with the Treaty of Versailles?
15. What if the Soviet Union helped Poland in the Nazi invasion of 1939 instead of invade Poland like in our timeline?
16. What if Italy never unified?
17. What if France won the Italian wars?
18. What if the Taiping Rebellion was successful?
19 What if China won the Opium wars?
20. What if the Nationalists and Communists refused to united their forces against the Japanese during WW2?
Edit: Just thought of another, What if Jeb Bush won in 2016?
It’s morbidly fascinating, to think that an ideology where humans are reduced to the lifestyle of insects could have taken off in America, paving over Europe as well. I shudder to think of the destruction that would have taken place in order to build those vast cities they spoke of.
Technocracy is the future of the Humans of Earth.
✊
I feel like a technocracy would be more fair, but who knows, theres a lot of hypothetical positives and negatives. But could you imagine if people like steven hawking, neil degrasse tyson as leaders
So a Meritocracy. Entities in which political power is centralized within the hands of the most skilled citizens. With the skilled being renowned scientists and engineers
I think its more that experts hold power so head of agriculture is a farmer, and the head of the banks and stuff is an economist.
I would say some form of technocracy is reforming in the modern day. For the worse it would seem.
And explain how "reforms today" are for the worse?
@@djriqky9581 There are elites who want to reduce the population.
@@desertdude8274 there are elites who want to reduce the POWER of the population.
@@djriqky9581 Either way putting them in charge of a technocratic superstate will just mean that these elites will find ways to butcher people and convince people to continually trade freedom for security and we all know what happens when that security is turned on the populace.
@@desertdude8274 plausible, but I don't know any scientists or engineers that would be considered "elite". Most of them are working class individuals who are talented in their fields. Technocracy to me, is worker co-ops under management of councils in which they elect their scientists and engineers democratically. It's a report upwards administration, rather then administration reporting downwards sort of governing. The ruler wouldn't be an "elite", but a collective of councils.
This was terrifying. Please continue
Technocracy doesn’t sound perfect, but it sure sounds like it would beat the hell out of capitalism.
Reduced working hours for everyone is one of the main reasons that I advocate for socialism, humans were not made to work so much.
Socialism has never, and will never work
I support tecnocracy tho
We are here 📍
What if the integralists took power in Brazil?
Autismo, autismo e mais autismo...
What if the race riots in Indonesia sparked into a civil war?
My country would be more shithole than it is now then
yonathan rakau now that is depressing no offense
@@longwlenguyen4214 just like living in it
source: im an indonesian
The four day work week does sound great. But i am glad the U.S. did not become a technocracy. Punishing an individual for missing one day of work seems immoral and just wrong. Especially when he is effectively being denied what he and his family need to live even if only briefly.
When the Technocracy reaches Mars the Mechanicus will be born !
To say The Great depression ended without bloodshed is to completely ignore the effect that world War II had on it. Switching to a wartime economy is most likely the thing that drove the economy into functionality. That being said the new deal prospects that Roosevelt implemented before the war were laying the foundation and roads for that driving force to drive on. Without that there would have probably been another Great depression very quickly.
But without world War II it would have taken much longer. And world War II was The bloodiest conflict, full stop.
Anti-Communist Action: 2:50
Actually sounds pretty good on paper. But like most things, would likely not be the same in reality. The human factor is always present and able to screw up anything
Technocracy did succeed in a way, policy today is determined largely by which set of lobbyists and experts politicians are beholden to, and public opinion can be swayed to anything the owners of Tech giants want by carefully engineered echo chambers.
Large companies with only a special interest in profit is Not. The. Same. Thing.
@@djriqky9581its like saying communism is not the soviet union or maoist china, companies would run technocracys look at the covid pandemic, they became all twice filthy e and twice rich than before. People really underestimate the ability that psychopaths have to hijack politics and screw everyone else
Remake is also better as the old video! XD
What if fantasy creatures like fauns, centaur, etc lived along side us how would that affect our world and history.
Not for long.
Harry Potter would be real.
They would've been exterminated and their stories and accounts turned to myths.
People would be doing kinky things with them because...humans.
Wow! The only place I've seen this discussed since Harold Waldrop's "You Can Go Home Again." However, the author never addressed how they seized power.
I would have been interested to hear how you thought conflict with the soviet union might have played out. Technocratic america might have been more insular, but might have also been a bit less squeamish about sacrificing its citizens. The idea of a technocracy sounds rather appealing on the surface. It would mean sacrificing freedoms but might be a better alternative to traditional dictatorship. However, real human power dynamics would probably quickly make a mockery of its ideals. After all, even among this elite class someone has to be in charge to decide who does what and how resources are used. Individuals and factions within the elite class would naturally scheme and maneuver to be in control, and in a generation you would have either a small coalition dictatorship or something like an aristocracy.
WHAT IF PRESTER JOHNS KINGDOM WAS REAL
Pester john?
Spoo Dadoo he was like a fictional guy who supposedly ruled a powerful Christian kingdom in Africa
I know who he is, cool scenario by the way, but it's prester not pester John. There should also be an "what if El Dorado was real"
P E S T E R
Otto Vrizo spelling is hard
What if Stalin was overthrown during the Cold War
how the hell would that have happened?
He might have been
Comrade Drill He Probably was. His death is kind of mysterious.
By who? They would probably become a military dictatorship like every other country was during the anti communist madness of the period, probably something like South Korea in the beggining
Zozepe By other communists who wanted de-stalinization.
I identify as a British moderate technocratic syndicalist reformist.
Put the ministries in charge of writing legislation but keep a parliament to make sure that any legislation has the will of the people.
Give workers much more power in comparison to owners but still give the owners significant power due to the risk of their investment.
Election cycles should be increase to __ years.
Change the PM’s role to just oversee the ministries and decide which proposals are relevant to which ministries.
Have 3 separate elections, 1 for the PM, 1 for parliament and 1 for the local council.
Add a governor to each council with significant power.
Give free food stamps to everyone so no one starves.
Give homeless people free housing and showers.
God 3 years later looking at myself. (21 now).
This feels cringy because I’m different now. But I still kinda like what I was writing here.
Where do you find literature about technocracy? Can anyone recommend any books because I am not getting any luck.
They do have an official website with an archive of their work.
@@MonsieurDean thank you
I feel like this brushes past a lot of historical realities in the 1930s and the aftermath of World War Two.
4 Day work weeks with 4 hour work days... and you get everything you need to live? i mean, sounds great. lol
philosophers say a philosopher king should rule, proles say a proletariat dictatorship should rule, so you can't be surprised that scientist would get this idea
I feel like this is a good system change when robots inevitably take most jobs
Sounds great; let's make it happen!
Technocracy sounds interesting, but it’s limitations on freedoms and ability to procure goods lead me to dislike it.
Andrew Levie it’s fancy communism
There’s lots of different ways to approach technocracy, personally I think it’s perfect for modern America because the epic fail of a education/college system and the fact that with America’s economy and a technocratic political philosophy we could potentially thrust humanity to the stars.
Jerrick Little I think humanity should go to the starts a different way technocracy seems like it would fail
Matt Gaskill that all depends on how technocracy gets approached, there is such a thing as a technocratic republic so that democracy stays central.
@@jerricklittle3306 Yuppers.
europe is more ahead than any other nations when it comes to democracy its because the average citizens in europe is actually more educated towards politics and everything so they know how to vote probably
Sounds similar to to James Burnham's book "The Managerial Revolution"
You forget the power and pull of Australia / Australasia. With Britain not coming to our defence (well.. they did, but with two battleships that were promptly sunk) and America coming to our defence (Coral Sea, Guadalcanal - … Remember the Canberra RIP) Australia would likely have left England behind, siding with America. Also there was an MASSIVE amount of American know-how here. We didn’t embrace the nuclear age.. but with American scientists sharing nuclear secrets with Australia? I could fully see Australia siding with America instead. Of course this would’ve pulled in NZ & PNG. Forming a Australiasian Technit.
I suspect though, the Timor Sea Dispute would’ve become a full fledged war (instead of Australia fighting an insurgency) with Indonesia and Australia facing off.
If America, seeing part of their own brothers backed into a corner, instead of there being a Vietnam in which China & the USSR back Vietnam, they back Indonesia instead… but Indonesia is in AUSTRALIAS back yard.
B-52s F111s and F4s out of Darwin DONT NEED AIRCRAFT CARRIERS. They’re WELL within range. MIGs… NOT SO MUCH. Kusnetzov appears…
Hits a Mine in the Straights of Malac and goes down in 5 minutes.. Scratch a soviet flat-top.
It’s recorded as the first time since WW2 that anyone looses a carrier.
Indonesian government falls apart like a deck of cards from the combined forces of the Australian army at their doorstep backed by the USAF striking from land bases relatively close by.
Also the whole “We don’t want to invade!” Disappears. Jakarta falls.
10 years later, Jakarta has been rebuilt.. It becomes this worlds Tokyo. Indonesia, this worlds Japan.
It’s only got 5 times the population, and a hundred times the land.
… Indonesias economy NEVER stagnates. (It doesn’t run out of land. RIP Borneo though..) (it causes most of the worlds biodiversity to disappear… Borneo is kinda important like that)
Indonesia turns into a MASSIVE megalopolis. With widespread agriculture and minerals fed directly from Australia Indonesia goes absolutely crazy.
Working WITH Australia, instead of against it, the combined output of NZ/AU/Indo/Thai/Philippines/Malaysia/etc VERY quickly turn out to have an GDP larger than Europe & USA Combined.
By 2100 Poverty doesn’t exist. Wars.. don’t exist (Seriously.. who the heck would want to attack half a billion Americans combined with 3 BILLION Oceanics?
By 2100 China and India end up joining the Oceanic Technic. Making it what Asian Technic.
The Governing board of which, despite some internal disputes, controls most of the worlds resources, most of the worlds population. By sheer guaranteed destruction… wars cease to exist. (Just the THREAT of the Asian Technic sending in the mechs makes any adversary pull their head in..)
Scarcity is almost entirely abolished. (Seriously, Look up Australia’s ability to act a breadbasket..)
The ONLY problem is? Biodiversity is all but eliminated. It doesn’t turn out well for the Koalas and Monkeys. :(
The story though should be - IF WE IGNORED WHAT MAKES US DIFFERENT AND INSTEAD FOCUSED ON WHAT MAKES US THE SAME, Scarcity would be eliminated
Class Colaboration >>>>> Class Abolition
You’ve got it now . Elon .
We need a "slow it down" button on UA-cam. What's the rush. Isn't this important information? Worth digesting? In fact, the rush is a typical example of technocracy... experts don't understand the pace of flesh and blood humanity, the bandwidth of incarnate human expression, how to carry the people with them, how to enfranchise persons, how to serve without taking power over them. The moral problem of technocracy is that it is about self ingratiation, not about selfless service. Sure these experts know stuff, but "so what" if it is not transferable in content and effect such that it matures all instead of the experts. Slow it down. It's not about you. Or is it?
There is a slow down button, old guy
@@engagementengagement8836 Good to know. Now... where is it? and... for the sake of us old guys... I hope it will be in the same place tomorrow... which is rarely the case these days. Happy to be instructed.
Ah, so thats what my ideological believe is :o