"Hi everyone, in this video I'm going to talk about WW1 doctrine and what it can tell us about broader military principles" "Okay cool" "Hi everyone, today I'm talking about 18th century logistics and how it can show us that people weren't all dumb back in the day" "Nice" "Hi everyone, this time it is about an historical argument relating to slavery, and how the rhetoric used to promote a negative practice is actually still used today" "WOW WHY DO WE STILL NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS? NOBODY ACTUALLY BELIEVES THIS TODAY. WHY ARE YOU OBSESSED WITH RACE? I USED TO RESPECT THIS ((((CHANNEL))))"
You making the willful, and ignorant, racists SEETHE is exactly why you should be doing this. People will fuss because this is uncomfortable for some, but it needs to be said. It also speaks to how well respected your honesty and veracity are. Continue to be astute in your stuff like this! Excellent work dude :)
Stay strong Brandon, these honest videos about the realities of disturbing and harsh topics are so important to go over, there is still so much misunderstanding, disinformation, and ignorance out there. There always seems to be a quick backfire of negativity, but there are plenty of us that stand with you.
Racists with a "good old days" obsession when Brandon F. muskets: :D Racists with a "good old days" obsession when Brandon F. doesn't musket, but instead fires off about their dumb slavery arguments: D:
Yeah its clearly such an absurdist argument like, of course they weren't taxed... they weren't even treated as people, much less did they even make an income.
Rich people communicating to rich people using the most abhorrent concept they understand. Taxes. Taxes have never made a rich person poor though. I couldn’t imagine spending my entire life worrying about a few percentage points.
@@Matt-xc6sp Taxes are taking a percent of your lifetime. A very significant one. It is not really money it is life being stolen. Rich, middle class or lower class. Especially consumption and labor taxation.
@@ronfink1415 A corporation does not have a lifetime. Lawyers and lobbies get filthy rich of a fraction of those percentage points they save the company. Actual business, the kind that existed in Adam Smith’s time, the small business we all claim to support, are priced out when the bigger ones can avoid their obligations. Meanwhile individuals often need to choose between living and going broke. You’re advocating trickle down economics in [current year].
technically, a large amount of them were better off as american slaves given their... low status... in africa still laughably bad compared to free men of the time and sadly bad by todays western standards
@@angrydragonslayer Idiots push the lies about black people in America came from Africa. When in fact we are indeed indigenous to this country. To claim black people were fortunate enough to be slaves in America is dumb insensitive belittling and disrespectful as comment. How about you carry your dumbass back to your ancestors came from since you came to America fleeing Europe
The closest to being a correct version of this is some occasions of serfdom. The Icelandic serfdom called vistarband lasted a long time and can be viewed as a sort of phasing out of slavery. It did suck but it atleast included housing and standards low as they might've been.
Agreed. Unfortunately, some people might say they don't want to be a slave, but they say "slaves want to be slaves". Leo Kearse from the Lotus Eaters said the trafficked child victims of Epste1n wanted that because he assumed "they were enjoying Epste1n's wealth". Gross. I've seen comments and people in history say "slaves like the provision from their slave masters" as if it was justification for slavery. I've seen comments say "oppressing women in the past didn't exist and that women liked that". James Marion Sims did vivisection on slaves without painkillers. He said Africans couldn't feel pain anyways. Sims was still rewarded with a statue in America that is still up. On a news video about moving Sims' statue, a man defended Sims and said Sims just saved people's lives. It was disgusting that he acted like Sims didn't do evil or that he tried to justify the evil vivisections of Sims. How is that different from trying to justify slavery? Watch videos about Klaasohm. It's a yearly festival where women are beaten. They are beaten so hard they can't sit or walk right for days and these women criticize this treatment or act afraid to criticize it, but there were people who lied and said "those women like being treated like this". "If the women like it or if Klaasohm is ok, then why did people in that village keep Klaasohm so secret and threaten with violence if anyone exposed it?
It's actually a really bad argument as it opens up to pepole being able to point out that pepole wan't different things and then be able to dismiss you out of hand. The best argument i have heard (as it does not depent on compassion) is the economic one. Slavery is a great way to hold a nations or regions economy back and making everyone but the richest of the would be slave owners poorer. As a bonus to that one comes the strategic argument as a richer population makes a country harder to fight in a war.
@@user-gu9yq5sj7c Counterargument to someone saying that: then surely there would be some mechanism for slaves to say "actually, I don't want this" free from coercion. Yet there is none, it is assumed for them. And if they counter with something like "we know what's best for them" you can retort with "how would you feel about someone deciding on your behalf that slavery was better for you?". In fact, the notion that some people know best for others completely destroys the idea of democracy that most slavery-apologists today probably claim to believe in.
One of my ancestors was a slaver in England. When slavery went away, he became a merchant. According to him, he knew what he was doing. He thought of slaves a commodity. Slavery was terrible and still is.
Slaves don't have to pay tax? Yeah neither do cattle or goats, or your pocket watch, or any other of your property living or not. How could you pay tax when you own nothing, when even the clothes on your back, are like yourself, and your children, property of your owner?
@@warlordofbritannia Sadly people forget this. What many people don't remember is that while Slavery existed in the world before, the slavery in the Americas was at the height of brutality and cruelty. Slavery beforehand still allowed people to usually keep families whole, keep their language, culture, and names, and often times Slaves were still viewed as people. Due to racism, African slaves were view not as people, but as livestock. They were told that they couldn't keep their names, culture, and languages in order to "civilize" them. Families were often separated or sold off. Really the goal was to keep the slaves in question docile and restricted in thought and aspirations of life. They literally looked at all of the slavery that existed beforehand and said... "We can do even worse things and dehumanize them even more than before!"
i honestly feel like this is a cop-out you could 100% force slaves to pay taxes and unless their owner wanted the slaves doing manual labor in prison instead of on the field, they'd need to pay.
Unlikely to happen. The people who owned slaves in the South were largely people with a lot of influence over policy makers. They wouldn't shoot themselves in their collective foot like that.
This is the kind of stuff they should teach in schools. Not just that slavery was wrong, but the highly effective rhetorical techniques used to convince people to tolerate or even support it. Especially since the tools work just as well today as they did then.
nobody would tolerate or support _actual_ slavery if it appeared in the west today. arguments for why some people were better off as slaves in the past, before we had the capability to house and feed literally everyone, are never going to be convincing in a society with the amount of resources we have access to. and obviously, by _"nobody"_ I mean so few that it will never, ever, happen _(unless our situation changes drastically)._
I don't think they were that effective. More just supplemental arguments. Like when racist used science to say some people are inferior. They didn't make that decision based on the science they are just adding it to their argument. People wanted slaves for economic reasons and all these other reasons are just thrown on top.
the funniest thing about the cartoons that portray slaves as having it better than the poor working whites to me is that they basically suggest that whites should just become slaves if they are having a tough time lmao
The only place I can think of that was worse would have been Brazil, where the leading causes of death for slaves were exhaustion, disease, mining accidents, and wild animal attacks. Of course, not much of a point to grading evils. Slavery is bad no matter how you cut it.
In many ways, as a black person, it's kinda chilling to hear how unpopular and unconcerned folks were towards slavery then. it feels like there was a real chance it could have continued to this day, and I could have just been born as property for someone else. All while media spreads the idea that people like me are happy and have easy lives, and aren't worth worrying about.
Slavery would have ended either way, the thing that truly cemented the end of Slavery was the cotton gin and mechanical cotton pickers, its was less expensive to own one and hire people to use it than to take care of and work slaves.
@@ArdentLion It's in America's prisons as well, due to a loophole in the 13th amendment. A lot of people can be propagandized that anything is normal, with nothing but repeating the same lies for an extended time. They can be conditioned, especially when peer pressure is added. My folks are like that & they're impossible to talk to.
I've had my parents say the EXACT thing, and when they visit my house and we are out and they see one, they don't even think about giving anything and they tell me to "be careful" when I volunteer at a food bank and soup kitchen near me.
@@WinaskaIt's not painting a broad stroke when it's true lol. A tiny fraction of people that say that actually do ANYTHING to help homeless vets. They often vote for the very people that keep homeless vets homeless
The thing is... he's right? Veganism is the obvious next step. There actually *isn't* any morally significant difference between humans and animals. BUT WHAT ABOUT MUH TASTE BUDS, right?
@@thegreatdream8427 I totally agree but using "veganism is next" as the REASON for anti abolitionist rhetoric is the ridiculous part lmao. Like okay we both know that's not your real concern
@@typicalsamprice you seem to miss that they're arguing to convince a third party (the public) rather than each other. it's a common issue in low-level debates/arguments/discussions. you are basically never trying to convince the other party, you are trying to convince those who are undecided or loose.
The gall of portraying abolitionists as out of touch with reality while simultaneously presenting that “lovely” depiction of slave life for black people sure is something.
12:43 Tea from the East Indies is 100% more moral. We don't use slaves, we use Chinese peasants we addicted to drugs in order to get them to work for drugs.
"It's society, They work for each other @podemosurss8316 pay each other and buy houses. Then get married and make children to replace them when they're too old to grow tea"
It’s especially ironic that these posters and pamphlets rail against abolitionists for supposedly neglecting the poor, when in reality the British liberals and abolitionists were all about reforms. Granted not all of those reforms were implemented all at once (plus Britain still had the class system well into the 20th century), but its yet another sign that that pro-slavery apologists were flat out dishonest.
@@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432 Actually, the Liberals were the main profiteers from the wretchedness of the working classes. The Tories actually did more to help the poor. An extemely low bar to jump, but it's still notable.
Most abolitionists did come from the elites and they usually made very abstract and philosophical arguments so the criticism of them being out of touch intellectuals actually had some merit
The reality of enslavement is way worse than I thought. Seasoning, (public SA) Breeding camps (forced repeated impregnation) and the AGE OF CONSENT BEING TEN, (7 in Delaware). When I realized millions of kids were BORN into these camps, I had to stop. Thank you for posting these so many want to continue this evil.
I am pretty sure the age of consent thing was for everybody not just slaves. Furthermore it is surprisingly low even for the time. In Britain granted they only began increasing it later in the century.
@ I don’t know what to make of this. Are you saying the 10 yr olds didn’t have it ‘that bad’? Also the AOC was ten but it was effectively babies, real actually babies.
Spoiler alert for you friend: slavery never stopped. Look at Africa, look at Asia. *It's still legal in several regions of those continents.* But please, hold your nose about a minority of morons cheering in favor of something that was abolished 160 years ago in our society.
The only time, I can recall where free men were asking to be slaves was in the Ottoman Empire where you would have to turn yourself slave to join the Janissaries.
You don´t get the argument. Desperate people who didn't sell themselves to slavery (mostly because they legally couldn´t and often sold themselves illegally to the equivalent of so-called "modern slavery" - whorehouses, sweatshops, servitude, etc.) were NOT the problem.
As a black history-enjoyer, I wanted to give my personal thanks for making your THIRD whole video on these slavery apologists. As a young history nerd, I couldnt ever fully enjoy or engage in this community because it's so filled with racist anti-humanitarian weirdos. Slavery isnt just a question of racism but humanity. A frat brother in college who was fully into reenactment and whom I thought I'd get along with was just a completely racist idiot. So it's really valuable that there exists an educated sensical white person like you that could educate these doofuses from a respected voice they would actually listen to (not me).
Are you saying (not me) because you aren't interested in making videos about these topics/the blowback from it, or because you don't think you'd have an audience? I'd sub if you're thinking about talking about it!! Sorry I'm not into cars though, although those cars look badass.
Yeah sure bud, accuse people you know nothing about of being the worst human beings on earth for no real reason then wonder why nobody wants to engage with you in a meaningful conversation.
@@EALoArt Nah, I'm saying I've had conversations in real life, and online with people in this community, read forums, etc and the racism (amongst a whole load of other issues) is ridiculous, but I'm not invested enough into making content to tell these people off, and they'd just probably bash me to shit. So I'm glad someone else is doing it, and it helps that Brandon is already fully involved in this community and has influence and therefore a voice people are potentially willing to listen to on this issue. Thanks about the cars haha, that's another one of my most serious passions.
@Silver_Prussian "for no real reason" Lol. I'm just calling out a glaring problem with some people in this community. Fisichella himself just made THREE WHOLE VIDEOS explaining these concepts with particular relation to history buffs and historical re-enactors. I remember in the first video he specifically called out the part of his audience who were slavery sympathizers and how much they bashed him for making these videos before he even made them. I didn't even say anything new with my comment. Maybe you are just painfully unaware, bud.
Excellent video. As a historian it gets annoying realizing how old and flawed whataboutisms are. As a veteran who was homeless at one point I get so irritated when my demographic gets to be the "what about." Like seriously Bob, when did you give me a hand?
If you think about it at all, it will immediately fall apart. Or, as I like to say, “It makes sense if you don’t think about it.” Sounding smart is more popular than being smart. Sounding confident will get one farther than actually being confident.
it's harder to focus on an issue when you're told to instead focus on the millions of other issues in the world. it's all about shifting the narrative and it's pointless to even entertain whataboutisms
The older and more experienced as a historian I become, the more I find myself more interested in historiography or how people interpret events. There’s something amazing but horrifying about how sapient life can believe anything they wish to, and this is all the more true when to comes to something that should be unquestionably evil.
@johnnotrealname8168 "something that should be unquestionably evil" You can't just ignore words to make a point, especially when those words make your point tangential at best. "... Should be", not 'was'.
The thing that makes lies dangerous, are three ingredients, truth, bias, and profit. It's tapped in Truth, it doesn't have to be a strong truth, but enough that people can't just hand wave it off. Everybody has baise, and that baise is treated like truth, especially if it's culturally backed. And profit, the most simple one, if people can make profit from, those same people like to keep it around.
You should try to get interested in why you _(and most people)_ choose to hold _"unquestionable"_ beliefs...you might find that it's often exactly that kind of thinking that leads to people being misled, irrational and dangerous to others.
@@EricLeafericson Remember the whole migrant crisis in Europe, where a lot of really stupid and inefficient things are being done and allowed because of "human rights"?
as someone from the south I have definitely heard quit a few arguments defending slavery and its refreshing to hear a historian reframing things to help keep a clear view on what the reality of the situation was back then. It is definitely unsettling to know that their are people out there that still buy the idea that slavery was "good" or not as bad as it was because it was awful and no country should continue the practice. as always excellent video and amazing job getting your point across, always eager to hear you speak.
My least favorite excuse is when people say it wasn't the plantation owners slaves, the bank owned the slaves, and they would have freed them sooner if they weren't held as collateral. Such bull
@@chuck2998 Wow never heard that one, that is definitely horrible. tragic the lengths people will go to in order to distance the act from the perpetrators.
@@LaustibiChriste33well I’m 24 and I definitely have heard it. I’m not sure what age has to do with anything though. I would assume my experience is unique to me as an individual and I would not assume that my experience is the same as everyone else’s. Just me tho 🤷
Acting like being an imperial power makes you evil... We spent a fortune and thousands of British lives to end the west and east African slave trade... Sure, by modern sensibilities we have decided invading people is wrong (although Russia and now Trump seem to be ending that era), but for the time the British Empire was morally neutral at worst.
I'm not deep enough into this channel or far enough into the video to know the context of this statement. and I absolutely love how nonsensical it is to me, truly beautiful.
Thank you Mr Brandon Fisichella for a non-censored comments section. The 18 million transported and the 12 million that initially survived were just the Entrée. Slavery really got under way from 1875 in the Belgian Congo. That was 30 million whose lives ended horrifically. The rest of Africa in its entirety accounted for another 25 million. I am not talking about the slavery that Winston Churchill reinstated in West Africa from 1940 to 1945. I am talking about the better off dead kind.
Thank you for your continued generosity and support of this content! I really do appreciate it, and am glad you've found value in the video. The Congo is definitely a topic I'd like to discuss some time.
The Congo one is somehow exaggerated by you here. I believe the claim is usually 10,000,000. Furthermore the point was ending slavery ironically enough. Also what slavery during World War II (1939-1945)?
@johnnotrealname8168 I exaggerate nothing. I quote the figures and facts historians give. For instance, “King Leopold’s Ghost” Adam Hochschild. Regarding the “Rubber Terror”. Regarding the Second World War “From Free Labor to Family Allowances: Labor and African Society in Colonial Discourse” Frederick Cooper 1989. Along with many other peer reviewed papers. My name is my real name. I also give the institute I worked at. Along with all other details. Unlike John not real name.
Peterson is very fond of questioning the motives of anyone who dares express concern for the wellbeing of the poor or disenfranchised. He often insists their empathy is fake, and that they are only faking it in order to facilitate some attack for some nefarious or hate-based agenda (but without any attempt to justify this based on other stances or claims of the speaker), and so we should react with suspicion or hostility to any mention of concern for the less fortunate. I didn't realize just how far back that accusation goes.
I'm glad we're talking about Peterson - because not once has he actually told you to react with hostility against the poor or disenfranchised. When making shit up, maybe use someone who isn't so well known?
@ I don't need to argue on Peterson and the video. The video makes no mention of Peterson, that's someone you brought in. He *does* mention Stonetoss, but his arguments on Stonetoss comics are obviously biased and lacking. You made an argument that he is against understanding and being for the poor and disenfranchised, obviously wrong. You are so driven to attack Peterson you make shit up about him to prove a point and then backpedal on something irrelevant I did not call out to have an attempt to gainsay.
I'm a US citizen. We fought a brutal civil war over slavery and we've spent the last 160 years trying to deal with the fallout of said war and the "peculiar institution" as slave-owners called it. It's insane that this is STILL going on.
@@me67galaxylifethousands fly slavers flags. The KKK is still a generational staple in southern politics. The biggest gathering of armed right wing militants in America was to stop people from removing a pro confederate monument.
the scary thing is we still have people justifying slavery even in the present day and the sad sorry truth is their are even people who not justify slavery but actually want to reintroduce it for various reasons.
" actually want to reintroduce it for various reasons." Who? If it is anyone in a western state, you probably too high up on propaganda or viewing a movement with not even a solitary percentage point of support.
Us Americans were told that the illegal immigrants are here to wash toilets, cook food, and take out the trash. They’ve also said for helping farmers too. There is more but there is clearly a huge effort to bring back slavery. They will just call it something else. Like usual.
Two and a half minutes in, and I already recognize this argument. I'm aware you probably give this counter, but still - almost as soon as I saw it, I thought, "In Victorian industrialism, if your conditions were horrific, at least you had the option to get a different job, Victorian industrialists could not send roughnecks with dogs to drag you back to the factory." Edit: Also, to say that those cartoons have an unfortunate level of cringe is an understatement. Edit 2: And once more, with Brandon, we delve into parts of a claim/issue that we would've never thought of!
@@podemosurss8316this is a little off he saw slavery, serfdom, and wage labor as different organization structures used by the owner class to manage proletariat labor. He believed capitalism was inherently better than serfdom and would build the industry and techniques for a post revolutionary society.
Karl Marx wrote that he believed "communism" (which today would mean socialism, or maybe even a strong social democracy) could come about in the USA via reform instead of needing (another) revolution like in most European monarchies - at least after the US Civil War. It obviously didn't happen, but I wonder if he was right - that it could have happened - or if he was just completely wrong and there was no chance.
“Why don’t you spend money helping American poor instead of wasting it on foreign immigrants?!” Said by the people who want all attempts by the government to help the poor to stop. Times change but the arguments stay the same.
If you mean the Make America Great Again crowd, Donald John Trump supports Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Furthermore comparing them to people who support slavery is @~?£ed up.
@@MrZauberelefant My comment is not up but assuming it was my comment about the current Republican Party wanting to retain Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security then what is your point exactly? That last one especially is funny as more poor babies not dying is not the own you think it is.
A good response to this reasoning would be this hypothetical: “What if a Billionaire wanted to purchase you as a slave? Would you accept that fate?” There is no consent, only appealing to their false assumptions. If they are consistent, then they should have no problem with being a rich persons slave, cause they would be happy and living the good life right?
Your missing the part where they don't view blacks as equal as individuals regardless of material condition. You have to remember the science part of it, its not a good argument in the context of the time. it's similar to how PETA carries on about chicken farming. When PETA shows the how factory farms operate and the conditions of the chickens and say "how would you like to live like this" People support free range farming, so the chicken is fit and healthy. But the next step of actually banning the practice of chicken farming that as whole doesn't work because the chicken is fundamentally not a person, it is not our equal and so it is not viewed as wanting or needing freedom we enjoy. The fact it ends up as food is "the natural order". Sadly it's similar with slavery, S;aves were not considered fully people at this time.
@ I agree with this take actually. Perhaps i didn’t make that explicitly clear enough that its dehumanizing and based off “science”. I wanted to present this argument as a gateway to that further point that it is degrading to be a slave no matter what.
I’m not sure what kinda response you expect by this hypothetical scenario, but I’m sure there’ll be people who would happily accept that deal. It will almost guarantee they’ll have a job for a lifetime, if they don’t piss him off.
@ Its more so the fact that a Billionaire WANTs to purchase someone as a slave, irrespective of that persons consent. Yea, there are definitely people out there who may think its a good deal or even get gratification out of it. I don’t think those people detract from the point that its dehumanizing to accept being forced into that arrangement, even if it means they are set for life.
It's not really accurate though, only connection between them is "I dislike this, as well as I dislike that other thing, so they must be the same" If there is am instance of stonetoss openly promoting slavery or racism (actions of viewers do not count), then let me know, but so far it's just a non sequitor.
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 I think the idea is not that they're supporting the exact same position, but that they use the same rhetorical techniques towards conservative ends
@@sarahbezold2008 It is quite reductive to take literal slavers and then compare them to establishment conservatives you mildly disagree with, and then proclaim that it's an apt comparison. It's quite disingenuous and quite frankly is a strawman.
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126I mean the guy is a noozi and they loved slavery too so it’s not a leap to suggest that if he was put in the same position he’d be supporting it outright
I ADORE how the rich cast will suddenly worry and care for their "fellow working man" only when its used to justify treating others as less, otherwise they have absolutely no issue with pushing them by the billion into the turning gears of the machine
Slavery is bad, Mmmmmmkay, Part 3 - I can't believe this is necessary electric boogaloo. I don't know what is worse, that this has to exist or that inevitably there will be pushback. And congrats on the name change for the channel.
Slavery is 100% life taxation. Taxation is mild slavery or serfdom. As for pushback, easy, it allow a specific people who pretend to have been the sole victims of centuries of war and exploitation (like everyone on earth) to demand political priviledge, cultural subsidies and other people tax money. Few people push for reinstating slavery. Anyway technology, material progress (in a classical liberal / marxist sense) is the primary cause of abolition of serfdom etc. Nothing to do with abolitionism. When a machine is better than a man the machine take over. And very justly the push for abolitionism lead to fascism, communism, social democracy, civil rights, anti freedom policy, anti speciecism, in a chaotic bundle, because it politicized society.
@@InternetDarkLord You raise an interesting point. Correlation and causality. Why would i own a sentient being, human, alien or AI, (even if i wanted to, which i don't): 1) it cost me more money to operate than a steam engine. 2) It can rebel, spy, subvert, sabotage, riot and kill me, while a inert motor does not? It make no sense. Slavery was rationnal, because lifespan in an iron ore mine in Roman Hispania 0BC is roughly 3 years at best. With luck and great roman engineering a few weeks before getting drowned by hydraulic mining. Romans need metals and almost nobody sane want to be a miner. It is suicidal. Hence slavery or forced labor or war prisonners etc. Freeing, killing, deporting, marrying, selling overseas, recovering components of said the sentient being once useless is much more efficient than keeping it. If the British navy and the Europeans had not been imperialist in Africa we could probably see: slaves sold back to african coastal burgeoning States where due to their lack of technological/social advancement would see slavery/indentured work not only continue as millenias before but expand. if slavery had not been abolished in the 1930s in a neither colonialist nor bellicose abolitionist world, with tractors and the like, i would see slavery going extinct naturally in the West through migration of labor, willing or unwilling whatever some slave owners think. Unless slavery become a Majordome like condition, domesticity and prestige for the ultra rich, but something numerically inexistant.
@@ronfink1415interesting points, but bs. Nazi Germany, the USSR, basically every totalitarian regime employed slave labour on a staggering scale. Not because they didn't have machines, but because it is much cheaper to starvation feed a human than mechanize a bunch of stuff. The value of human labour plummets as soon as the labour is free. That changes your calculation
@ronfink1415 Be as anti-tax as you’d like. Reasonable people can disagree about financial policy in plenty of ways! But the moment you start to call it “slavery”, you need to get a fucking grip.
I'm sure there won't be any deranged psychopaths in the comments trying to tell us slavery is ok because it's better than being killed and also it was morally ok for thousands of years so that means it's ok now and then.
Sadly it will keep happening, sometimes people just don't bother questioning their morals because it's not easy nor convenient. Seeing people as inherently non equals based on antiquated "science" and insecurities is sad.
4:00 what's truly insidious is this exact same "argument" and deflection happens today about any attempt to improve the conditions of vulnerable groups. This past election in the US instead of addressing the true cause of the modern horrible job hunt and absurd rent prices, people have turned to blaming immigrants and trans healthcare. It's even more disgusting that it worked.
@@justsomeitweeb what was the true cause? And why can't we cut through the bullshit and fund general welfare for all people instead of picking pet issues to gain brownie points?
It works bevause the volume of property educated people (those informed and are aware of the true state of things) is dwarfed by the volume of propoganda-raised people. And the reason that is? The American education system is set up to make drones, not citizens. And the schools with teachers that want to teach the real world are vastly outnumbered by the factory-schools. The good schools are anomalies, not the baseline.
@@Winaska The highest wealth inequality in history and the ever growing gig economy are some of the causes. The reason we cant cut through it is due to the influence of the upper class who use their wealth and influence in the media and politics to stifle change and anything trying to impede them from squeezing as many pennies out of the people as possible. Also some people are just freaks who cant mind their own business and want to check the genitals of everyone using a public restroom.
@@Winaska Not OP's part to answer that question, isn't it? "Why can't we improve our society somewhat?" You asked to the person asking the same question
I live in Brazil, one of the last American nations to ever abolish that complete evil It makes me sad to say some of these hits close to home, I have seen most of these arguments, one in real life (Said by a family member)
@@DominionSorcererIt did. How do you think the First Brazilian Republic was born? It faced a lot of revolts (two from its own navy) due to what they did in 1889, and they did it because they were butthurt that Pedro II abolished slavery without compensation through thr Golden Law. Most of the slaveowners are ironically republicans...
@@DominionSorcereri agree that civil war is bad. But what the slaved would prefer? A life of slavery or a civil war? I like to think that if I was in that situation, I would prefer civil war. But yeah, very difficult dilema.
Am I tweaking or is this a new channel name?? Edit: Also, I am getting complete whiplash from this well-spoken englishman occasionally and no-holds-barred dropping the, uh, other word for black 😭 I mean its fine but just unexpected
I dident expect the F to stand for Fisichella! I dont even know how to pronounce that one, it must be spanish or something! Or Italien, more likely, I would say that spanish pepole cant s without an E before it, but they Can say si! And thats Got to E to be seen, and si is whats in fiSIchella!
A lot of rich people in Britain who did absolutely horrific things to their own people did go on to virtue-signal against slavery, so calling out the hypocricy of it all was partly legitimate.
Absolutely. They already made it in life, so they tried to undermine potential rival wealth, that was tied to the (despicable) slave trade. Fairly common regulatory capture analog. The Most wealthy did the same with the Treaty of Vienna in 1815, at an international level with british Minister Castlereagh pushing to abolish Slave trade but not slavery because it would damage only Spanish Empire and Portuguese commercial interests. He refused to abolish slavery outright because it would have been ruinous for the British Empire at the time.
Sure, but many of them also were earnest reformers. I don’t think any generalizing or assuming about the true intentions of the people in power matter much at all; a bad act does not wash out the good, nor the good to bad.
@@warlordofbritannia Then we should be able to talk about the bad things Britain did without you guys constantly interjecting like "what about common law and the industrial revolution and the fact we were the first to abolish slavery?" Also, the fact you guys still love your royalty in the 21st century is weird.
Like 2 minutes in and I'm reminded that the British public readily accepted higher taxes at the time to help pay and maintain a naval blockade across the west coast of Africa in order to combat slavery, just out of moral principle.
Moral principles brought on by the guilt of the West Indies I hate how people forget the British were responsible for some of the worst atrocities of the slave trade and that it took them 200 years to realize that it was wrong not exactly a moral high ground
@@hpcraft3362 Yet still the Brits were the ones who ended it, it was the Africans that struggled tooth and nail to keep it going. Enough of this "Original Sin" BS.
What’s interesting about this is that a select few benefited the most from the prior slavery, but the masses of the British public paid to pick up the pieces. Why weren’t the fortunes of the ones who benefited the most liquidated to rectify the wrongs? This socialized loss and privatized gain model is as old as time. We should progress in the age of technology and stop tyrants from usurping the masses.
@@hpcraft3362 If it's not a moral high ground, then why were there only like three countries doing that? Why was the rest of humanity "immoral', by your standards? Could it be that the standards you're applying today didn't exist then? That the standard you use to say slavery bad IS the same one you're complaining about?
@@SoMuchFacepalm yes, slavery was as widespread and accepted as eating chicken is today. Our attitude toward slavery comes from those people who fought against it. Condemning them, as though we know we would've done something different is foolish and arrogant.
Funny to think that the same people who say, “America first!” are the same who rabidly oppose providing American schoolchildren with food to eat at lunchtime.
Does not have to do with each other. The big question is the one about possitive and negative rights in your case. The America first pepole are often big on negative rights and see possitive rights as a Luxuary. The question between the two in that case is a trade of between making society richer or more equal and where the line goes is a question most pepole cant get along on and most pepole want it to be towards richer where they have expertice. The wierdest thing about your public shools as a outsider is that you have the best funded public schools in the world and yet they turn out so bad. Seriously how is that possible?
@@anautisticswede6748ur dumb and u draw these distinctions to attempt to explain obvious idiosyncrasies, such as the fact that children in the supposedly “greatest nation” can go to school hungry and without a lunch.
@@anautisticswede6748 Probably administration issues, Public schools are funded by property taxes, so public schools in wealthier areas do better and poorer areas do worse. Also religion is very much favored here. Good luck trying to teach evolution, climate science, or whatever other study thats earned the ire of the local church. Then theres the american exceptionalism that screws over geography or history education. We cant learn about american slavery anymore apparently because it " teaches people to hate america" or some such nonsense. We do okay in math and reading, or at least we did back in my time. I hear thats getting worse though.
because it's easier to fight the powerless than the people oppressing everyone. identify with those who are keeping you down while persecuting the even more oppressed makes you feel strong, even tho' you're nothing to the rich
@@intellectually_lazy the rich does not have to be the powerfull and just becouse you don't want to fight the rich does not mean you fight against the poor. Look at what pepole say as possitive and negative rights and you will understand how the right thinks a lot better. The economy is not a fixed pie, the shrinking markets model was proven incorrect.
This has directly evolved into modern arguments around the exploitation of migrant and overseas labor. Pitting poor foreigners against poor Westerners as though the fight's between us (and justifying inhumane labor practices because "otherwise they would also be destitute/living in worse places.")
The culture seems to have a vein of selfishness, perceiving success as the domination of others, and slavery is the apotheosis of this idea. I'd like to see a video that shows the negative effects of slavery despite economic benefits - the social fragmentation and inequality, moral, ethical decay etc.
This was actually something that people at the time spoke of quite often- even those who didn't see a problem with the enslavement of Africans, they felt it was something that 'degraded the moral quality' of Britons. For example, one of my favourite authors, George Robert Gleig, while complaining of very high prices for most goods in Bermuda, has this to say on the question of slavery on the island: "That provisions should be dear in this country cannot surprise, when it is considered, that this small colony is the general depot, and place of resort for repairs and stores, to a large proportion of the British navy, scattered along the coast of America; but surely, if the natives were a little more industrious, they might afford to sell their goods at a cheaper rate, and at the same time secure an equal, if not a greater profit. But their indolence is beyond all conception, and can be attributed only to, what I believe is its real cause, the facility with which they acquire fortunes, from men who are necessitated to give whatever they demand for the most trifling article. The poorest and meanest freeman upon the island, never dreams of applying his own hand, or even his own head, to the cultivation of the ground; and being abundantly supplied with negro slaves, they leave every thing, even the care of providing necessaries for themselves, to the industry of that ill-used race.”
It's the old Hegelian master-slave dialectic - the slave becomes strong and overcomes nature through work, while the master atrophies and becomes lazy and ineffectual through inactivity and leisurely life.
and it's also lead to another problem of why we would want tech that not only benefit the slaves but make the whole system useless? sometimes tech DOES help humanity and people in power don't want that to happen so there also might be the technological stagnation aspect to it
@@katiem.3109 I don't think there would have been a war if slavery was ineffective at generating wealth for South (and it wouldn't have been prevalent.) It's a testament to the strength of the human spirit and its desire to serve which was exploited (by capitalism) that it worked at all Imho.
4:43 I'm from the Caribbean, I've talked like this before though I mostly speak mesolect. In the drawing that would be basilect which is basically complete deviation from the standard language, perfect use of the standard language would be acrolect, mesolect is the in-between that most people speak . We're taught in school that no language is inferior to another, there is merely time and place, the right context, also creole isn't 'broken language', it's a different language with a different grammar, syntax and vocabulary. I kinda got rubbed the wrong way when you said "obviously", sounded like you also thought it sounded uneducated and broken, though I'm sure it wasn't the intention. Anyway, love your content, keep up the good work brother.
As another West Indian, while I agree that Creole is its own language and I believe each island's Creole should be standardised to formalize certain aspects under authority; when the cartoon was generated, this was long before these realizations were made and Creole was seen as broken English, or the slaves' attempt at English. Therefore, given only English had recognition as a language and Creole wasn't conceived of as a concept, the implications of the cartoon *was* to imply the slaves were blissfully uneducated but "living the good life"
I like the way you connect historical injustice and misdirection by comparing it to the modern day. It really puts stuff into perspective. Also top tier referencing to political cartoons that are meant to make us mad at something else.
The year is 3025. Brandon’s bones have long since turned to dust and fewer and fewer pilgrims make their way to the tomb containing the mummified remains of Atun Shei. Yet MindChip Toubers still must persist in debunking the continuing arguments for slavery.
Honestly, arguing against slavery is pretty easy from my perspective. 1. Slavery by its very nature violates the individual property rights of the people being enslaved. Anyone arguing that some people don’t have individual property rights is proving a disingenuous argument. 2. Slavery is extremely inefficient on an economic level. While a few people would get rich off of slavery on scale, the overall economy will stagnate and grow much slower than a slave free capitalist economy with the same population and resources. And those two arguments by themselves should be enough for most people as they cover both the Ecenomic perspective and the Industrial Rights perspective. Anyone with disagreements is free to argue their point in the replies.
Playing devil's advocate: 1. "Those people aren't really humans, they are more like children or animals" 2. Might be true, but that wasn't conventional wisdom at the time. I mean, who cares if the economy is poor as long as the rulers benefit? And let's not forget, the ACW was won by an industrialised economy vs an agricultural one. And that culture was agricultural because the profitable crops would not grow elsewhere. Slavery was the means to support an agricultural economy. You're putting the cart before the horse with this argument.
@@MrZauberelefant 1. Can easily be disproven. While they were deeply racist they never actualy managed to give evidence for anything of theire racist Claims.
I don’t have a lot to say regarding 2(Macroeconomics isn’t really my wheelhouse), regarding 1: you are assuming that black people are people with the same human dignity as whites. At the time, the race scientists had apparently come to a consensus that black people were in fact, a lower sub species to whites(weirdly enough, the baseline human). Your argument, as True as it is, goes against the prevailing scientific theories of the time. Consider how we view those who rail against the prevailing scientific theories of today. We deride them as “anti vaxers, flat earthers, young earth creationists, conspiracy theorists, etc.”(The lions share of these people are actually bonkers and im not drawing a *moral* equivalence). You can say the first agrument till the cows come home, but until you destroy the fundamental assumption, you’d sound like somebody demanding chimpanzees be bussed to polling stations on Election Day because “they have just as much a right to vote as we do, and we can’t violate their civil rights.”
@MrZauberelefant well for devils advocate reply number 1, my response is simply nothing. Im engaging with a person who doesn't view other people as people and therefore have nothing further to discuss, i have no interest in what a savage thinks. For number 2, if you're making that argument, you're basically just dismissing the issue so once again, we have nothing further to discuss. Not only that, it's actually not putting the cart before the horse. You said it was an agricultural economy but why does that specifically necessitate an economically unsound and subjectively evil method of labor? Why can't paid workers do the exact same labor for this agricultural economy?
Cool, I'll try: 1.0 rights are imaginative philosophical concepts with no substantial proof in themselves. 1.1 The extension of property rights is an impractical vagueness and therefore is initially invalid. In example, the transformation, seems to give ownership of the object, but does that mean should the boundries of a land be secured, that I have not transformed it's centre, that centre may be taken from me yet? 1.2 Slavery is the fulfilment of property rights, in that it is the wholesale of the self, as owned prior by the self. If it is valid as by contracts to sell the self into temporary labour, why not permanent labour? 2.0 That economics is superfluous, matters of economy are not significant generally to goodness and arguments of economic efficiency are therefore vacuous. 2.1 If slavery was economically inefficient, then it must be explained the success of it's prior use, in ancient civilisations, such as Athens or Rome. Put simply why did anti-slavery not win out until the industrial revolution? 2.2 That even if they are inefficient they may be considered a luxury item and serve more functions than production, in this light slaves should be seen as laudable productive luxuries in comparison to say a deck of cards or fashionable clothes, which are obviously worse for production as luxuries. How does that address your arguments?
great video, Brandon. Although i do find it sad that we've reached a point where its common for people to get defensive and say things like "why do you always talk about this". people take history personally so they assume its an attack on them.
15:02 One can argue about whether the Bible prohibits slavery in general, but it does condemn hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of racially-conditioned slavery in a nation that makes so much of the statement "We hold these Truths to be self evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, and that among these Rights are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness..." *ought* to be obvious. (It also ought to be noted that Biblical slavery, and slavery in the ancient Mediterranean in general, was not racially conditioned, a rich man that took out loans beyond his means might find himself apprehended, his property confiscated, and himself thrown in with his former slaves, so there was, at least in theory, more equality to the whole thing).
Sometimes institutions that are either Christian adjacent, affiliated or the "main authority" on it stray away from what is true for selfish gain, so did catholic church which is at least to me outrageous and shameful. We should be above the material cravings and greed, upholding the line of what is right.
The Bible never says slavery is a good thing, but more acknowledges it as a consequence of human sin. Like "this sucks but im you got just kinda deal with it " not a great take, but I mean that's how everyone in the ancient world thought
@@Winaskanot sure everyone in the ancient world thought "it sucked", but your point makes sense, considering that "race" as we understand it is a modern concept that ancient people probably either didn't have at all or understood very differently, and very rarely would policy or economy be divided on those grounds. Romans first enslaved other latins, rather than foreigners, to give an example, not out of principle but simply because they're closer to home and thus more numerous consequently statistically more likely to end up enslaved. And yet, it is hard to also consider it simply a "fact of life", as plenty of times was slavery portrayed as an injustice... when practiced upon the writers of a document or story, but oftentimes was the enslavement of another group of people consider a just "spoil of war" or adequate "punishment" of some sort. My point is: people always look for ways to justify their evil deeds, and when those deeds are widely practiced you'll more often see even more excuses towards that, but rarely will those excuses hold when the evil deeds are performed upon them. It is always a matter of privilege.
@MassachusettsTrainVideos1136 this is crazy propaganda. "Corporatism" as you say has led to the largest wealth disparity in human history. Wealth earned how?
Thank you for being a white man and telling the truth. People would have you believe slavers were not evil because it was "normal." No, people back then could see other humans suffering as wrong, and stood up for it even when it was of no benefit to themselves.
If anything the wages of an unenslaved worker in a society where slavery exists are likely to be pushed downwards by the need to compete with workers who don't have a wage. The assumption that the economy is zero sum between wage laborers and slaves fundamentally ignores the basic fact that employers and slaveowners want to make a profit and therefore would prefer to spend as little on labor, enslaved or otherwise, as possible.
Slaves could be owned as nationalized property, and proceeds could be distributed amongst the citizens. It's honestly shocking that a system as incredibly profitable as slavery was ever opposed. It seems so rare that morality wins out over comfort.
Yes, I often think about how non slave owners had it harder because they had to compete with very low cost labour (harder than in a free market). It has also been argued, the Romans for all their innovative technogy and engineering, didn't have an industrial revolution, because they didn't want or need labour saving devices.
I'm only a few minutes in, but this is a great topic for a video. I used to teach US history and I found that mentioning the fact that slaveowners used the women AND the men for whatever nonconsensual bedroom desires turns a lot of young edgelords off of slavery. Hard to talk about in a youtube video, but many men would gladly put up with tax bills if it meant they could avoid that. We all agree the Lord's right to a first night was abhorrent. Imagine that but its every night. Slavery was more abhorrent than many people realize, and that is one appeal to emotion that seems to stick. Keep up the great work.
Lord first night never existed in general beyond very specific cases. It is an invention. If it existed in exchange for a tax cut, many would accept it today. What is a night compared to the evil of taxation?
@@ronfink1415tell that to your spouse..."honey, I think I will let the rich person r4p3 you, because in the long run, we'll benefit from it financially. But then, you would also link the right to food and shelter to labour.... Maybe get out of the basement
It's about time that you get to talk about slavery in Brazil. Brazil had the BIGGEST slave Economy in the hole world at the time, the Portuguese were the ones to traffic the biggest number of people, even more than England. The Dutch even tried to get a slice of this trade by capturing the Nordeste region of Brazil and later the city of Luanda, with the intentions of feeding the growing need of slaves, and what happened? They were not able to do so, because only the Portuguese had the knowledge to make it as profitable as it was. From giving hair cuts, collective baths, any wounds made in the journey from Africa being treated, the slave's skin being exfoliated with rocks or sand, any white hairs painted black or removed completely, receiving better food so they looked more healthy than they really were, all of this to have them sold for a higher price in the shores of Brazil. The jesuit Jorge Benci, who lived in the state of Bahia for 17 years, made the recommendation to slave owners that any punishment who totalized a number higher than 40 whippings should be distributed along the week, never in a single day, as he said "30 or 40 today, more 30 or 40 after 2 days, until the sentence was done..." But we do have reports of slaves receiving punishments of 200, 300 and even 600 whippings in a single day. And what they used to prevent this open wounds from getting infected made it everything even worse.
I don't think you understand the definition of irony, or your political lense is so blurred with bias that you don't see anything beyond the lenght of thy nose.
@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 sometimes a word might not have a dictionary definition but we can try and understand that word in a context. Cos prager u did a video somehow is a opposite to this and the word to use for this that came to mind is "ironic" 😂
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 PragerU did a video on slavery basically repeating the talking points Brandon addresses. If you know so little about a topic, why use your hands to type a comment?
@@MrZauberelefant You are vaguely saying that yet you have no receipts to back up any claims, it's not about laziness but rather a burden of evidence being brought upon the accuser. Name the video, moment and I will look it up at once.
I don't want to watch this, not from disagreement, but from want to maintain my happiness for today. May this comment serve, at least somewhat, as a suitable offering to the ALGORITHM in place of watch time.
It really does not matter what 'context" is imposed. Treating another human being as cattle and or property is inhumane and definitively evil. It's an old evil no nation is free from.
I'm so glad to have found your channel. We really do need more people like you dismantling these "arguments" in an accessible format, showing them for what they actually are.
I love how the slavers subtley hinted how ordinary English people gained nothing from slavery and remained poor. And America tries to replicate this order to this day.
Yeah, but people needed to justify why they were doing it at the time Especially in American slavery. Because while slavery existed everywhere, in the Americas slavery was modified by being based on race and made permanent and hereditary chattel so that whites involved could maximize profits from plantations.
This is one of the finest analyses of a sophistry I've seen in years, and admirably balanced -- not just harping on "Here's why Those People who use it are wrong," but upon "Here's why it's important to recognize when _anyone, including your political allies,_ make use of it." I will also say that, in my (limited) experience, it can be useful to highlight how much of a _red herring_ this variety of whataboutism always is.
Long time subscriber, just want to say well said man. Great episode, It's good that you are raising awareness of this type of rhetoric, now more that ever.
it's like if someone drove by a jail courtyard and stated "wow they don't need to pay rent, eat for free, AND have a courtyard to do whatever they want and the only downside is forced labor? they're having it better than me!"
I swear to God, my own father said this a few months ago. I asked him 'So given the choice, you'd rather go to prison than stay here at home watching TV?' He did not respond.
@@Elrond_Hubbard_1depends on the prison some of the european ones are disgustingly kind. Also some do choose to go to prison, elderly, sick, poor, usually those with bad situations so yeah some do choose the prison. I'm sure you have heard of people committing a crime only to immediately turn themselves in.
the correct response to slavery apologists is reminding them that the Nintendo Switch had a lifecycle of 5 years. "Oh way down south in the land of traitors"
Anarchist Theory would have pretty good counter arguments In addition to having better support systems than Charity (Charities legally only need to spend 25% of their donations every year the rest they could "Theoretically" hold indefinitely. The practice that best supports communities are direct support (cash funds or whatever) / mutual aid
i'd also suggest that a second most dangerous argument is similar to this whataboutism, but used in "diluting" the horror- a common tactic, sometimes even unknowingly used by those who want to point out problems now! it goes like "slavery was bad yes, but there was always slavery in the past and they were equally bad, and really, are modern indentured servitude, prison labour, harsh factory conditions outside the eye of regulation really much better?" And sometimes it's the inverse desire: some people will draw parallels that modern labour conditions can be just as degrading as slavery in order to point out that some workers nowadays face similar treatment. The takeaway *should* be "yeah both are bad and ultimately stem from political centralisation in an elite and disenfranchisement/division of working peoples, and if I'm against one type of slavery I must advocate and act to stop the other types" but *unfortunately* a lot of people instead takeaway that "oh since i'm mostly ok with things are now/i can mostly stomach it... i guess slavery wasnt that horrifically bad?"
To be fair voluntary prison labor done right can greatly aid in the reformation of convicts, not that Id fully trust the government to do it right as it is utterly incompetent and corrupt, nor would I trust private prisons which should not exist anyway. If its done in a non-revenue generating fashion that can reduce operating cost and solely on a volunteer basis It better than having the prisoners stew up better ways to hurt people. Also I had a coworker say "being told to picking grapes off the stems, for fruit cups, is slave labor", they were being paid fair wages for it.
An argument I've regularly encountered is that slavery in the American south was bad, but not as bad as (insert area here). Ok. I have a dowl rod and an axe handle. I'm not going to beat you with the axe handle, is that a good thing?
"Hi everyone, in this video I'm going to talk about WW1 doctrine and what it can tell us about broader military principles"
"Okay cool"
"Hi everyone, today I'm talking about 18th century logistics and how it can show us that people weren't all dumb back in the day"
"Nice"
"Hi everyone, this time it is about an historical argument relating to slavery, and how the rhetoric used to promote a negative practice is actually still used today"
"WOW WHY DO WE STILL NEED TO TALK ABOUT THIS? NOBODY ACTUALLY BELIEVES THIS TODAY. WHY ARE YOU OBSESSED WITH RACE? I USED TO RESPECT THIS ((((CHANNEL))))"
You making the willful, and ignorant, racists SEETHE is exactly why you should be doing this.
People will fuss because this is uncomfortable for some, but it needs to be said.
It also speaks to how well respected your honesty and veracity are. Continue to be astute in your stuff like this! Excellent work dude :)
Stay strong Brandon, these honest videos about the realities of disturbing and harsh topics are so important to go over, there is still so much misunderstanding, disinformation, and ignorance out there. There always seems to be a quick backfire of negativity, but there are plenty of us that stand with you.
"an historical" all credibility just evaporated /s
There goes the chaff.
Racists with a "good old days" obsession when Brandon F. muskets: :D
Racists with a "good old days" obsession when Brandon F. doesn't musket, but instead fires off about their dumb slavery arguments: D:
Slaves not being subject to tax? I guess they’re ignoring the fact that being a slave is essentially being subject to a 100% tax rate.
Yeah its clearly such an absurdist argument like, of course they weren't taxed... they weren't even treated as people, much less did they even make an income.
Rich people communicating to rich people using the most abhorrent concept they understand. Taxes.
Taxes have never made a rich person poor though. I couldn’t imagine spending my entire life worrying about a few percentage points.
@@Matt-xc6sp Taxes are taking a percent of your lifetime. A very significant one. It is not really money it is life being stolen. Rich, middle class or lower class. Especially consumption and labor taxation.
@@ronfink1415what do you mean? How?
@@ronfink1415 A corporation does not have a lifetime. Lawyers and lobbies get filthy rich of a fraction of those percentage points they save the company. Actual business, the kind that existed in Adam Smith’s time, the small business we all claim to support, are priced out when the bigger ones can avoid their obligations. Meanwhile individuals often need to choose between living and going broke. You’re advocating trickle down economics in [current year].
"Slaves had it pretty good actuality" is a fine argument until one recalls the detail of NO THEY DID NOT.
Slaves had it good, trickle down economics worked, and other fun lies you can tell your friends and family :D
technically, a large amount of them were better off as american slaves given their... low status... in africa
still laughably bad compared to free men of the time and sadly bad by todays western standards
@@angrydragonslayer
Idiots push the lies about black people in America came from Africa. When in fact we are indeed indigenous to this country. To claim black people were fortunate enough to be slaves in America is dumb insensitive belittling and disrespectful as comment. How about you carry your dumbass back to your ancestors came from since you came to America fleeing Europe
The closest to being a correct version of this is some occasions of serfdom.
The Icelandic serfdom called vistarband lasted a long time and can be viewed as a sort of phasing out of slavery.
It did suck but it atleast included housing and standards low as they might've been.
"nice argument, why don't you back it up with a source?"
THE SOURCE IS THAT I MASDE IT THE F UP!
I think the best anti slavery argument is the simplest: how would you like to be a slave?
Agreed. Unfortunately, some people might say they don't want to be a slave, but they say "slaves want to be slaves".
Leo Kearse from the Lotus Eaters said the trafficked child victims of Epste1n wanted that because he assumed "they were enjoying Epste1n's wealth". Gross.
I've seen comments and people in history say "slaves like the provision from their slave masters" as if it was justification for slavery.
I've seen comments say "oppressing women in the past didn't exist and that women liked that".
James Marion Sims did vivisection on slaves without painkillers. He said Africans couldn't feel pain anyways.
Sims was still rewarded with a statue in America that is still up.
On a news video about moving Sims' statue, a man defended Sims and said Sims just saved people's lives. It was disgusting that he acted like Sims didn't do evil or that he tried to justify the evil vivisections of Sims. How is that different from trying to justify slavery?
Watch videos about Klaasohm.
It's a yearly festival where women are beaten. They are beaten so hard they can't sit or walk right for days and these women criticize this treatment or act afraid to criticize it, but there were people who lied and said "those women like being treated like this".
"If the women like it or if Klaasohm is ok, then why did people in that village keep Klaasohm so secret and threaten with violence if anyone exposed it?
It's actually a really bad argument as it opens up to pepole being able to point out that pepole wan't different things and then be able to dismiss you out of hand. The best argument i have heard (as it does not depent on compassion) is the economic one. Slavery is a great way to hold a nations or regions economy back and making everyone but the richest of the would be slave owners poorer. As a bonus to that one comes the strategic argument as a richer population makes a country harder to fight in a war.
@@user-gu9yq5sj7c Counterargument to someone saying that: then surely there would be some mechanism for slaves to say "actually, I don't want this" free from coercion. Yet there is none, it is assumed for them. And if they counter with something like "we know what's best for them" you can retort with "how would you feel about someone deciding on your behalf that slavery was better for you?". In fact, the notion that some people know best for others completely destroys the idea of democracy that most slavery-apologists today probably claim to believe in.
Yeah, it’s fine and dandy living in an oppressive system as long as you are not the one getting oppressed.
Many ppl forget that.
for white people - only as a sex fetish you can see it in bdsm
One of my ancestors was a slaver in England. When slavery went away, he became a merchant. According to him, he knew what he was doing. He thought of slaves a commodity. Slavery was terrible and still is.
Who was this ancestor if I might ask?
John Slavery @@coop_cap
@@coop_cap I'm curious too..
@@coop_cap a role model 😍
@@baraka629Hell no.
Slaves don't have to pay tax? Yeah neither do cattle or goats, or your pocket watch, or any other of your property living or not. How could you pay tax when you own nothing, when even the clothes on your back, are like yourself, and your children, property of your owner?
That’s the point. Slaves literally, metaphorically, and most important legally were not considered people.
@@warlordofbritannia Sadly people forget this. What many people don't remember is that while Slavery existed in the world before, the slavery in the Americas was at the height of brutality and cruelty. Slavery beforehand still allowed people to usually keep families whole, keep their language, culture, and names, and often times Slaves were still viewed as people. Due to racism, African slaves were view not as people, but as livestock. They were told that they couldn't keep their names, culture, and languages in order to "civilize" them. Families were often separated or sold off. Really the goal was to keep the slaves in question docile and restricted in thought and aspirations of life. They literally looked at all of the slavery that existed beforehand and said... "We can do even worse things and dehumanize them even more than before!"
i honestly feel like this is a cop-out
you could 100% force slaves to pay taxes
and unless their owner wanted the slaves doing manual labor in prison instead of on the field, they'd need to pay.
Unlikely to happen. The people who owned slaves in the South were largely people with a lot of influence over policy makers. They wouldn't shoot themselves in their collective foot like that.
@angrydragonslayer brother... they didnt pay taxes because they didnt make money.... they had NOTHING to pay......
This is the kind of stuff they should teach in schools. Not just that slavery was wrong, but the highly effective rhetorical techniques used to convince people to tolerate or even support it. Especially since the tools work just as well today as they did then.
nobody would tolerate or support _actual_ slavery if it appeared in the west today.
arguments for why some people were better off as slaves in the past, before we had the capability to house and feed literally everyone, are never going to be convincing in a society with the amount of resources we have access to.
and obviously, by _"nobody"_ I mean so few that it will never, ever, happen _(unless our situation changes drastically)._
Thats maybe even why they don’t. This gets people wise to propaganda, and overall gain more intelligence. Things we do not examplify in public school
They won't they think it will offend white children
I don't think they were that effective. More just supplemental arguments. Like when racist used science to say some people are inferior. They didn't make that decision based on the science they are just adding it to their argument. People wanted slaves for economic reasons and all these other reasons are just thrown on top.
I got taught most of this stuff…
the funniest thing about the cartoons that portray slaves as having it better than the poor working whites to me is that they basically suggest that whites should just become slaves if they are having a tough time lmao
Well there where pro-slavery advocates who did actually argue for that. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Fitzhugh
How is that funny? Just shows how bad we can have it, even when being a part of a society.
@@handsomebear. its funny because obviously whites had it better than slaves bro
@@handsomebear. bad cheese is said to smell funny. doesn't have to be a laugh riot
Some people go to prison to escape living on the street
The more I learn about slavery in the Caribbean, the more it seems like literal hell.
90% Caribbean people are well versed in the subject
Ask us anything, it will provide respite for everyone
@@YeahCain2 Caribbean history was mandatory in secondary school and brutal to get through. 😢
The only place I can think of that was worse would have been Brazil, where the leading causes of death for slaves were exhaustion, disease, mining accidents, and wild animal attacks. Of course, not much of a point to grading evils. Slavery is bad no matter how you cut it.
@@Scarfy397 this is all true for caribbean sugar plantations except for the mining.
It was
In many ways, as a black person, it's kinda chilling to hear how unpopular and unconcerned folks were towards slavery then. it feels like there was a real chance it could have continued to this day, and I could have just been born as property for someone else. All while media spreads the idea that people like me are happy and have easy lives, and aren't worth worrying about.
Slavery would have ended either way, the thing that truly cemented the end of Slavery was the cotton gin and mechanical cotton pickers, its was less expensive to own one and hire people to use it than to take care of and work slaves.
it does continue to this day. slavery is alive and well in africa.
@@ArdentLion It's in America's prisons as well, due to a loophole in the 13th amendment.
A lot of people can be propagandized that anything is normal, with nothing but repeating the same lies for an extended time. They can be conditioned, especially when peer pressure is added.
My folks are like that & they're impossible to talk to.
@@EricLeafericson Oh no, people convicted for crimes have to do other things than play Playstation all day! The horror!
@@FifinatorKlon 1/10 bait
sort of how "what about homeless vets" 9/10 times will be said by people who oppose help for homeless vets.
I've had my parents say the EXACT thing, and when they visit my house and we are out and they see one, they don't even think about giving anything and they tell me to "be careful" when I volunteer at a food bank and soup kitchen near me.
Nice way to paint with broad strokes
@@Winaska painting with broad strokes is the most efficient way to paint over a surface that is all uniform. You ever painted drywall or siding?
@@handeggchan1057applies to race too
@@WinaskaIt's not painting a broad stroke when it's true lol. A tiny fraction of people that say that actually do ANYTHING to help homeless vets. They often vote for the very people that keep homeless vets homeless
"If we agree with abolitionists they might start advocating for veganism next" is a wild-ass take. 18th century authors were on some crazy shit.
The thing is... he's right? Veganism is the obvious next step. There actually *isn't* any morally significant difference between humans and animals. BUT WHAT ABOUT MUH TASTE BUDS, right?
Most abolitionists were vegetarians. It was part of the Social Christian reform package.
@@thegreatdream8427 I totally agree but using "veganism is next" as the REASON for anti abolitionist rhetoric is the ridiculous part lmao. Like okay we both know that's not your real concern
@@thegreatdream8427 Morals aren't objective. there is no objective why to measure whose live is worth more or whether humans and animals are equal.
@@typicalsamprice you seem to miss that they're arguing to convince a third party (the public) rather than each other. it's a common issue in low-level debates/arguments/discussions.
you are basically never trying to convince the other party, you are trying to convince those who are undecided or loose.
The gall of portraying abolitionists as out of touch with reality while simultaneously presenting that “lovely” depiction of slave life for black people sure is something.
looks like a 18th century wojak meme
Would you believe that this mental disconnect from social issues still exists today?
@@arteckjay6537 Yeah.
A century and a half from now we'll be analyzing abortion in the same light as we do slavery
12:43 Tea from the East Indies is 100% more moral. We don't use slaves, we use Chinese peasants we addicted to drugs in order to get them to work for drugs.
Literal chains versus chemical ones you choose😂
I'm getting your sarcasm sir lol.
"It's society, They work for each other @podemosurss8316 pay each other and buy houses. Then get married and make children to replace them when they're too old to grow tea"
@@giovannicervantes2053the Great chain binds us all
You dropped this: /s
It’s especially ironic that these posters and pamphlets rail against abolitionists for supposedly neglecting the poor, when in reality the British liberals and abolitionists were all about reforms. Granted not all of those reforms were implemented all at once (plus Britain still had the class system well into the 20th century), but its yet another sign that that pro-slavery apologists were flat out dishonest.
I think we still do have the class system. It isn't quite as regimented and visible as it used to be but its still there.
@benholroyd5221 thank you for the correction.
@@gaslightstudiosrebooted3432 Actually, the Liberals were the main profiteers from the wretchedness of the working classes. The Tories actually did more to help the poor. An extemely low bar to jump, but it's still notable.
Most abolitionists did come from the elites and they usually made very abstract and philosophical arguments so the criticism of them being out of touch intellectuals actually had some merit
Nothing has changed, people still fall for lies and still vote against their interests motivated by muh culture war.
The reality of enslavement is way worse than I thought. Seasoning, (public SA) Breeding camps (forced repeated impregnation) and the AGE OF CONSENT BEING TEN, (7 in Delaware). When I realized millions of kids were BORN into these camps, I had to stop. Thank you for posting these so many want to continue this evil.
I am pretty sure the age of consent thing was for everybody not just slaves. Furthermore it is surprisingly low even for the time. In Britain granted they only began increasing it later in the century.
@johnnotrealname8168 I swear you people try to make anything better this it is .
@ I don’t know what to make of this. Are you saying the 10 yr olds didn’t have it ‘that bad’? Also the AOC was ten but it was effectively babies, real actually babies.
@@Salahudiyn777 What makes you think that? I merely pointed out the age of consent was for non-slaves as well. The @#$% is wrong with you?
Spoiler alert for you friend: slavery never stopped. Look at Africa, look at Asia. *It's still legal in several regions of those continents.* But please, hold your nose about a minority of morons cheering in favor of something that was abolished 160 years ago in our society.
If slavery was so cool you would have tons of non slaves asking to be a slave. And yet......
Oh, but slavery *is* cool - if you’re the master, that is. Not so much for the slaves…
The only time, I can recall where free men were asking to be slaves was in the Ottoman Empire where you would have to turn yourself slave to join the Janissaries.
@@michalsoukup1021
And even then they were usually inducted as kids, if memory serves.
Technically, throughout history there were people who would sell themselves or their children into slavery to survive, as a last resort.
You don´t get the argument. Desperate people who didn't sell themselves to slavery (mostly because they legally couldn´t and often sold themselves illegally to the equivalent of so-called "modern slavery" - whorehouses, sweatshops, servitude, etc.) were NOT the problem.
I think that ANY argument FOR slavery is absolutely idiotic.
Unless your birth rates are collapsing, and your women are refusing to remotely cooperate........decisions, decisions. 🤔
An argument either has or lacks merit, and argument in itself can't be idiotic.
Devils advocate. Community service.
Nah, the ghoulish argument of “I am evil and can force people to do stuff for me to make my life easier” isn’t dumb but instead just purely evil.
What about using prison inmates for labor? That is a form of slavery
As a black history-enjoyer, I wanted to give my personal thanks for making your THIRD whole video on these slavery apologists. As a young history nerd, I couldnt ever fully enjoy or engage in this community because it's so filled with racist anti-humanitarian weirdos. Slavery isnt just a question of racism but humanity. A frat brother in college who was fully into reenactment and whom I thought I'd get along with was just a completely racist idiot. So it's really valuable that there exists an educated sensical white person like you that could educate these doofuses from a respected voice they would actually listen to (not me).
Are you saying (not me) because you aren't interested in making videos about these topics/the blowback from it, or because you don't think you'd have an audience? I'd sub if you're thinking about talking about it!!
Sorry I'm not into cars though, although those cars look badass.
Yeah sure bud, accuse people you know nothing about of being the worst human beings on earth for no real reason then wonder why nobody wants to engage with you in a meaningful conversation.
@@EALoArt Nah, I'm saying I've had conversations in real life, and online with people in this community, read forums, etc and the racism (amongst a whole load of other issues) is ridiculous, but I'm not invested enough into making content to tell these people off, and they'd just probably bash me to shit. So I'm glad someone else is doing it, and it helps that Brandon is already fully involved in this community and has influence and therefore a voice people are potentially willing to listen to on this issue. Thanks about the cars haha, that's another one of my most serious passions.
@Silver_Prussian "for no real reason" Lol. I'm just calling out a glaring problem with some people in this community. Fisichella himself just made THREE WHOLE VIDEOS explaining these concepts with particular relation to history buffs and historical re-enactors. I remember in the first video he specifically called out the part of his audience who were slavery sympathizers and how much they bashed him for making these videos before he even made them. I didn't even say anything new with my comment. Maybe you are just painfully unaware, bud.
@mog7501 you are making it sound like big problem but it really isnt
Excellent video. As a historian it gets annoying realizing how old and flawed whataboutisms are. As a veteran who was homeless at one point I get so irritated when my demographic gets to be the "what about." Like seriously Bob, when did you give me a hand?
If you think about it at all, it will immediately fall apart. Or, as I like to say, “It makes sense if you don’t think about it.”
Sounding smart is more popular than being smart. Sounding confident will get one farther than actually being confident.
it's harder to focus on an issue when you're told to instead focus on the millions of other issues in the world. it's all about shifting the narrative and it's pointless to even entertain whataboutisms
Love your channel by the way, Crewe.
@philipsalama8083 thank you. Planning on new stuff soon.
Style over substance. Populism wins people, spewing logic makes you look like a pretentious cunt.
The older and more experienced as a historian I become, the more I find myself more interested in historiography or how people interpret events. There’s something amazing but horrifying about how sapient life can believe anything they wish to, and this is all the more true when to comes to something that should be unquestionably evil.
It was not unquestionably evil for millenia.
@johnnotrealname8168 "something that should be unquestionably evil"
You can't just ignore words to make a point, especially when those words make your point tangential at best. "... Should be", not 'was'.
The thing that makes lies dangerous, are three ingredients, truth, bias, and profit.
It's tapped in Truth, it doesn't have to be a strong truth, but enough that people can't just hand wave it off.
Everybody has baise, and that baise is treated like truth, especially if it's culturally backed.
And profit, the most simple one, if people can make profit from, those same people like to keep it around.
You should try to get interested in why you _(and most people)_ choose to hold _"unquestionable"_ beliefs...you might find that it's often exactly that kind of thinking that leads to people being misled, irrational and dangerous to others.
@@josephross8753buried gem of an understanding.
"How dare you talk about human rights, my eggs are more than 2 dollars a dozen!"
You clearly haven't been to a grocery store if you can so easily trivialize skyrocketing costs
@@Winaska That's an excuse. Let's be real.
There is a difference between human rights as they were first thought of and the naive way they are absued today.
@@FifinatorKlon Abused how?
@@EricLeafericson Remember the whole migrant crisis in Europe, where a lot of really stupid and inefficient things are being done and allowed because of "human rights"?
"Whenever I hear anyone arguing for slavery, I feel a strong impulse to see it tried on him personally" - Abraham Lincoln
as someone from the south I have definitely heard quit a few arguments defending slavery and its refreshing to hear a historian reframing things to help keep a clear view on what the reality of the situation was back then. It is definitely unsettling to know that their are people out there that still buy the idea that slavery was "good" or not as bad as it was because it was awful and no country should continue the practice. as always excellent video and amazing job getting your point across, always eager to hear you speak.
My least favorite excuse is when people say it wasn't the plantation owners slaves, the bank owned the slaves, and they would have freed them sooner if they weren't held as collateral. Such bull
@@chuck2998 Wow never heard that one, that is definitely horrible. tragic the lengths people will go to in order to distance the act from the perpetrators.
@@LaustibiChriste33well I’m 24 and I definitely have heard it. I’m not sure what age has to do with anything though. I would assume my experience is unique to me as an individual and I would not assume that my experience is the same as everyone else’s. Just me tho 🤷
Have you watched the "Checkmate Lincolnite" series on the Atun Shei Films channel?
@@anthonyrowland9072 I have actually, amazing series and it is very informative. loved the videos.
I love when even the sneering British imperialist is like "No no, that's not good and proper. You're being too evil."
Yup wild
Acting like being an imperial power makes you evil... We spent a fortune and thousands of British lives to end the west and east African slave trade... Sure, by modern sensibilities we have decided invading people is wrong (although Russia and now Trump seem to be ending that era), but for the time the British Empire was morally neutral at worst.
"Why do you care about x thing when there is y thing?"
"Do you care about fixing y thing then?"
"Oh no not at all"
tend your own garden and worry less about the capital
You don’t have to care about X when Y exists and you don’t have to worry about Y when X exists
@noamias4897 the perfect argument for annoying others
You should send Little Timmy to the warhammer 40k universe in the next ad read, see how well he fairs there
Muster the Grey Knights.
He'll be fine the emperor always protects
Iron warriors, dark eldar, and mechanicus fighting over their newest warcrime victim
Da Orks might mistake him for a grot.
I'm not deep enough into this channel or far enough into the video to know the context of this statement. and I absolutely love how nonsensical it is to me, truly beautiful.
Thank you Mr Brandon Fisichella for a non-censored comments section.
The 18 million transported and the 12 million that initially survived were just the Entrée. Slavery really got under way from 1875 in the Belgian Congo. That was 30 million whose lives ended horrifically. The rest of Africa in its entirety accounted for another 25 million. I am not talking about the slavery that Winston Churchill reinstated in West Africa from 1940 to 1945. I am talking about the better off dead kind.
I think many millions took the ‘better off dead option’ that’s why the mortality rate was astronomical. I guess I would have done the same.
Thank you for your continued generosity and support of this content! I really do appreciate it, and am glad you've found value in the video. The Congo is definitely a topic I'd like to discuss some time.
@@BrandonF Thank you, Brandon. Good starting point. King Leopold’s Ghost - Adam Hochschild.
The Congo one is somehow exaggerated by you here. I believe the claim is usually 10,000,000. Furthermore the point was ending slavery ironically enough. Also what slavery during World War II (1939-1945)?
@johnnotrealname8168 I exaggerate nothing. I quote the figures and facts historians give. For instance, “King Leopold’s Ghost” Adam Hochschild. Regarding the “Rubber Terror”. Regarding the Second World War “From Free Labor to Family Allowances: Labor and African Society in Colonial Discourse” Frederick Cooper 1989. Along with many other peer reviewed papers. My name is my real name. I also give the institute I worked at. Along with all other details. Unlike John not real name.
Peterson is very fond of questioning the motives of anyone who dares express concern for the wellbeing of the poor or disenfranchised. He often insists their empathy is fake, and that they are only faking it in order to facilitate some attack for some nefarious or hate-based agenda (but without any attempt to justify this based on other stances or claims of the speaker), and so we should react with suspicion or hostility to any mention of concern for the less fortunate.
I didn't realize just how far back that accusation goes.
I'm glad we're talking about Peterson - because not once has he actually told you to react with hostility against the poor or disenfranchised. When making shit up, maybe use someone who isn't so well known?
@MysticalArcane So eager to fawn over Peterson you couldn't quite get to the part where you learn what he's being accused of.
@ I don't need to argue on Peterson and the video. The video makes no mention of Peterson, that's someone you brought in. He *does* mention Stonetoss, but his arguments on Stonetoss comics are obviously biased and lacking. You made an argument that he is against understanding and being for the poor and disenfranchised, obviously wrong.
You are so driven to attack Peterson you make shit up about him to prove a point and then backpedal on something irrelevant I did not call out to have an attempt to gainsay.
@MysticalArcane So did you want to respond something I've said or what?
Here just to spectate s potential argument. I live for stuff like this.
I'm a US citizen. We fought a brutal civil war over slavery and we've spent the last 160 years trying to deal with the fallout of said war and the "peculiar institution" as slave-owners called it. It's insane that this is STILL going on.
Hm yes i see thousands in the street trying to restore slavery totally
@@me67galaxylife*Change the history for their own gain
There, fixed it for you
@@me67galaxylifethousands fly slavers flags. The KKK is still a generational staple in southern politics. The biggest gathering of armed right wing militants in America was to stop people from removing a pro confederate monument.
Well the CIA did when they helped overthrow Gaddarfi. Plenty of humans in cages in Libya now thanks to those efforts.
@@me67galaxylifeYou never see people waving a confederate flag?
the scary thing is we still have people justifying slavery even in the present day and the sad sorry truth is their are even people who not justify slavery but actually want to reintroduce it for various reasons.
" actually want to reintroduce it for various reasons."
Who? If it is anyone in a western state, you probably too high up on propaganda or viewing a movement with not even a solitary percentage point of support.
@@bewawolf19There is always SOMEONE
Reintroduce? We use penal labor and just wait until you hear how Qatar builds all those ultramodern buildings!
not only that but a disturbing increase in people comparing themselves to slaves because of cost of living and housing prices.
Us Americans were told that the illegal immigrants are here to wash toilets, cook food, and take out the trash. They’ve also said for helping farmers too. There is more but there is clearly a huge effort to bring back slavery. They will just call it something else. Like usual.
Two and a half minutes in, and I already recognize this argument. I'm aware you probably give this counter, but still - almost as soon as I saw it, I thought, "In Victorian industrialism, if your conditions were horrific, at least you had the option to get a different job, Victorian industrialists could not send roughnecks with dogs to drag you back to the factory."
Edit: Also, to say that those cartoons have an unfortunate level of cringe is an understatement.
Edit 2: And once more, with Brandon, we delve into parts of a claim/issue that we would've never thought of!
I have to point out that Karl Marx was an abolitionist since he saw abolition of slavery as a first step towards abolishing wage labour.
@@podemosurss8316this is a little off he saw slavery, serfdom, and wage labor as different organization structures used by the owner class to manage proletariat labor. He believed capitalism was inherently better than serfdom and would build the industry and techniques for a post revolutionary society.
@@Lexinomicronhe wrote letters to Lincoln to urge on the fight against slavery. And Lincoln replied favourably
Karl Marx wrote that he believed "communism" (which today would mean socialism, or maybe even a strong social democracy) could come about in the USA via reform instead of needing (another) revolution like in most European monarchies - at least after the US Civil War. It obviously didn't happen, but I wonder if he was right - that it could have happened - or if he was just completely wrong and there was no chance.
@@imacds No chance. Marx was a notable moron who wrote overcomplicated stuff to sound smart and scammed his friends for money that he spent lavishly
“Why don’t you spend money helping American poor instead of wasting it on foreign immigrants?!” Said by the people who want all attempts by the government to help the poor to stop. Times change but the arguments stay the same.
If you mean the Make America Great Again crowd, Donald John Trump supports Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security. Furthermore comparing them to people who support slavery is @~?£ed up.
@johnnotrealname8168 and they are willing to dismantle the affordable care act, reduce reproductive rights etc.
@@MrZauberelefant My comment is not up but assuming it was my comment about the current Republican Party wanting to retain Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security then what is your point exactly? That last one especially is funny as more poor babies not dying is not the own you think it is.
@@MrZauberelefant My comment is not up and I cannot reply to you. That latter bit is not the own you think it is.
@johnnotrealname8168it is and you are wrong.
Thank you for doing this
And thank you for your generosity! It is much appreciated!
A good response to this reasoning would be this hypothetical: “What if a Billionaire wanted to purchase you as a slave? Would you accept that fate?”
There is no consent, only appealing to their false assumptions. If they are consistent, then they should have no problem with being a rich persons slave, cause they would be happy and living the good life right?
Your missing the part where they don't view blacks as equal as individuals regardless of material condition. You have to remember the science part of it, its not a good argument in the context of the time.
it's similar to how PETA carries on about chicken farming. When PETA shows the how factory farms operate and the conditions of the chickens and say "how would you like to live like this" People support free range farming, so the chicken is fit and healthy.
But the next step of actually banning the practice of chicken farming that as whole doesn't work because the chicken is fundamentally not a person, it is not our equal and so it is not viewed as wanting or needing freedom we enjoy. The fact it ends up as food is "the natural order".
Sadly it's similar with slavery, S;aves were not considered fully people at this time.
@ I agree with this take actually. Perhaps i didn’t make that explicitly clear enough that its dehumanizing and based off “science”. I wanted to present this argument as a gateway to that further point that it is degrading to be a slave no matter what.
I’m not sure what kinda response you expect by this hypothetical scenario, but I’m sure there’ll be people who would happily accept that deal. It will almost guarantee they’ll have a job for a lifetime, if they don’t piss him off.
@@spellbrand477what makes you think they'll get treated ethically?
@ Its more so the fact that a Billionaire WANTs to purchase someone as a slave, irrespective of that persons consent. Yea, there are definitely people out there who may think its a good deal or even get gratification out of it. I don’t think those people detract from the point that its dehumanizing to accept being forced into that arrangement, even if it means they are set for life.
What a beautifull day it is to remind ourselves that John Brown's Body lies a'moulding in the grave, but his truth is marching on.
Glory, glory halleluja!
He's gone to be a soldier in the Army of the Lord.
John Brown massacred civilians and freed 0 slaves.
@MarcoCaprini-do3dq his truth is marching on!!
@johkupohkuxd1697 The same Lord who championed slavery in the first place.
The fact any person would argue in favor for slavery in modern times is truly a testament to a failed education system
go an example? those against adventures in evil that increase slavers are called racist isolationists, i have examples of that.
@@ginxxxxx No one wants to hear your regurgitated propaganda. Go be a racist isolationist somewhere else.
"georgian era stonetoss cartoon"
LMAO yes I love that comparison
It's not really accurate though, only connection between them is "I dislike this, as well as I dislike that other thing, so they must be the same"
If there is am instance of stonetoss openly promoting slavery or racism (actions of viewers do not count), then let me know, but so far it's just a non sequitor.
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 I think the idea is not that they're supporting the exact same position, but that they use the same rhetorical techniques towards conservative ends
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 lol, totally not mad ass comment.
@@sarahbezold2008
It is quite reductive to take literal slavers and then compare them to establishment conservatives you mildly disagree with, and then proclaim that it's an apt comparison.
It's quite disingenuous and quite frankly is a strawman.
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126I mean the guy is a noozi and they loved slavery too so it’s not a leap to suggest that if he was put in the same position he’d be supporting it outright
I ADORE how the rich cast will suddenly worry and care for their "fellow working man" only when its used to justify treating others as less, otherwise they have absolutely no issue with pushing them by the billion into the turning gears of the machine
Slavery is bad, Mmmmmmkay, Part 3 - I can't believe this is necessary electric boogaloo.
I don't know what is worse, that this has to exist or that inevitably there will be pushback.
And congrats on the name change for the channel.
Slavery is 100% life taxation. Taxation is mild slavery or serfdom.
As for pushback, easy, it allow a specific people who pretend to have been the sole victims of centuries of war and exploitation (like everyone on earth) to demand political priviledge, cultural subsidies and other people tax money.
Few people push for reinstating slavery. Anyway technology, material progress (in a classical liberal / marxist sense) is the primary cause of abolition of serfdom etc. Nothing to do with abolitionism. When a machine is better than a man the machine take over.
And very justly the push for abolitionism lead to fascism, communism, social democracy, civil rights, anti freedom policy, anti speciecism, in a chaotic bundle, because it politicized society.
@@ronfink1415 You confused correlation with causality. The fact many ideas grew out of the Enlightenment does not mean one caused the other.
@@InternetDarkLord
You raise an interesting point. Correlation and causality.
Why would i own a sentient being, human, alien or AI, (even if i wanted to, which i don't):
1) it cost me more money to operate than a steam engine.
2) It can rebel, spy, subvert, sabotage, riot and kill me, while a inert motor does not?
It make no sense.
Slavery was rationnal, because lifespan in an iron ore mine in Roman Hispania 0BC is roughly 3 years at best.
With luck and great roman engineering a few weeks before getting drowned by hydraulic mining.
Romans need metals and almost nobody sane want to be a miner. It is suicidal. Hence slavery or forced labor or war prisonners etc.
Freeing, killing, deporting, marrying, selling overseas, recovering components of said the sentient being once useless is much more efficient than keeping it.
If the British navy and the Europeans had not been imperialist in Africa we could probably see:
slaves sold back to african coastal burgeoning States where due to their lack of technological/social advancement would see slavery/indentured work not only continue as millenias before but expand.
if slavery had not been abolished in the 1930s in a neither colonialist nor bellicose abolitionist world, with tractors and the like, i would see slavery going extinct naturally in the West through migration of labor, willing or unwilling whatever some slave owners think.
Unless slavery become a Majordome like condition, domesticity and prestige for the ultra rich, but something numerically inexistant.
@@ronfink1415interesting points, but bs. Nazi Germany, the USSR, basically every totalitarian regime employed slave labour on a staggering scale.
Not because they didn't have machines, but because it is much cheaper to starvation feed a human than mechanize a bunch of stuff.
The value of human labour plummets as soon as the labour is free. That changes your calculation
@ronfink1415 Be as anti-tax as you’d like. Reasonable people can disagree about financial policy in plenty of ways! But the moment you start to call it “slavery”, you need to get a fucking grip.
I'm sure there won't be any deranged psychopaths in the comments trying to tell us slavery is ok because it's better than being killed and also it was morally ok for thousands of years so that means it's ok now and then.
i saw like one for 100 comments
@@me67galaxylife😂
Sadly it will keep happening, sometimes people just don't bother questioning their morals because it's not easy nor convenient.
Seeing people as inherently non equals based on antiquated "science" and insecurities is sad.
Or say that because the Arabs did it to white people then it's unfair to say the Atlantic Slave trade was pure evil
Until they are afraid to speak in public about it, it will continue to be a problem we need to constantly be vigilant
4:00 what's truly insidious is this exact same "argument" and deflection happens today about any attempt to improve the conditions of vulnerable groups. This past election in the US instead of addressing the true cause of the modern horrible job hunt and absurd rent prices, people have turned to blaming immigrants and trans healthcare. It's even more disgusting that it worked.
@@justsomeitweeb what was the true cause? And why can't we cut through the bullshit and fund general welfare for all people instead of picking pet issues to gain brownie points?
It works bevause the volume of property educated people (those informed and are aware of the true state of things) is dwarfed by the volume of propoganda-raised people.
And the reason that is? The American education system is set up to make drones, not citizens. And the schools with teachers that want to teach the real world are vastly outnumbered by the factory-schools. The good schools are anomalies, not the baseline.
@@Winaska The highest wealth inequality in history and the ever growing gig economy are some of the causes. The reason we cant cut through it is due to the influence of the upper class who use their wealth and influence in the media and politics to stifle change and anything trying to impede them from squeezing as many pennies out of the people as possible. Also some people are just freaks who cant mind their own business and want to check the genitals of everyone using a public restroom.
@@Winaska Not OP's part to answer that question, isn't it?
"Why can't we improve our society somewhat?" You asked to the person asking the same question
@@aribantala no the OP hinted at there being a a real cause they understand and I was asking what that iis
I live in Brazil, one of the last American nations to ever abolish that complete evil
It makes me sad to say some of these hits close to home, I have seen most of these arguments, one in real life (Said by a family member)
Honestly, we were not one of the last. We were THE last
The last Brazil might have been, but there is _some_ solace to be found in that Brazil did not go to war with itself over slavery.
And we still have regular scandals related to big companies using slaves
@@DominionSorcererIt did. How do you think the First Brazilian Republic was born? It faced a lot of revolts (two from its own navy) due to what they did in 1889, and they did it because they were butthurt that Pedro II abolished slavery without compensation through thr Golden Law. Most of the slaveowners are ironically republicans...
@@DominionSorcereri agree that civil war is bad. But what the slaved would prefer? A life of slavery or a civil war? I like to think that if I was in that situation, I would prefer civil war. But yeah, very difficult dilema.
Am I tweaking or is this a new channel name??
Edit: Also, I am getting complete whiplash from this well-spoken englishman occasionally and no-holds-barred dropping the, uh, other word for black 😭 I mean its fine but just unexpected
It is, I remember it being Brandon F.
No. I see it too.
Holy shit we got the F. Reveal before GTA VI
I dident expect the F to stand for Fisichella! I dont even know how to pronounce that one, it must be spanish or something! Or Italien, more likely, I would say that spanish pepole cant s without an E before it, but they Can say si! And thats Got to E to be seen, and si is whats in fiSIchella!
New year or after the Boston trip it was changed, I think since he's doing a more presentative format and we can refer to him with his last name
None of these slavery apologists would ever be okay with being a slave themselves.
A lot of rich people in Britain who did absolutely horrific things to their own people did go on to virtue-signal against slavery, so calling out the hypocricy of it all was partly legitimate.
Absolutely.
They already made it in life, so they tried to undermine potential rival wealth, that was tied to the (despicable) slave trade. Fairly common regulatory capture analog.
The Most wealthy did the same with the Treaty of Vienna in 1815, at an international level with british Minister Castlereagh pushing to abolish Slave trade but not slavery because it would damage only Spanish Empire and Portuguese commercial interests.
He refused to abolish slavery outright because it would have been ruinous for the British Empire at the time.
Sure, but many of them also were earnest reformers. I don’t think any generalizing or assuming about the true intentions of the people in power matter much at all; a bad act does not wash out the good, nor the good to bad.
@@warlordofbritannia Then we should be able to talk about the bad things Britain did without you guys constantly interjecting like "what about common law and the industrial revolution and the fact we were the first to abolish slavery?"
Also, the fact you guys still love your royalty in the 21st century is weird.
@@abstract5249 Who cares about the royalty? Also Britain did well reforming and improving the country in the 1800s.
@johnnotrealname8168 I agree with you.
Like 2 minutes in and I'm reminded that the British public readily accepted higher taxes at the time to help pay and maintain a naval blockade across the west coast of Africa in order to combat slavery, just out of moral principle.
Moral principles brought on by the guilt of the West Indies I hate how people forget the British were responsible for some of the worst atrocities of the slave trade and that it took them 200 years to realize that it was wrong not exactly a moral high ground
@@hpcraft3362 Yet still the Brits were the ones who ended it, it was the Africans that struggled tooth and nail to keep it going.
Enough of this "Original Sin" BS.
What’s interesting about this is that a select few benefited the most from the prior slavery, but the masses of the British public paid to pick up the pieces. Why weren’t the fortunes of the ones who benefited the most liquidated to rectify the wrongs? This socialized loss and privatized gain model is as old as time. We should progress in the age of technology and stop tyrants from usurping the masses.
@@hpcraft3362 If it's not a moral high ground, then why were there only like three countries doing that? Why was the rest of humanity "immoral', by your standards?
Could it be that the standards you're applying today didn't exist then? That the standard you use to say slavery bad IS the same one you're complaining about?
@@SoMuchFacepalm yes, slavery was as widespread and accepted as eating chicken is today.
Our attitude toward slavery comes from those people who fought against it. Condemning them, as though we know we would've done something different is foolish and arrogant.
Funny to think that the same people who say, “America first!” are the same who rabidly oppose providing American schoolchildren with food to eat at lunchtime.
Does not have to do with each other. The big question is the one about possitive and negative rights in your case. The America first pepole are often big on negative rights and see possitive rights as a Luxuary. The question between the two in that case is a trade of between making society richer or more equal and where the line goes is a question most pepole cant get along on and most pepole want it to be towards richer where they have expertice. The wierdest thing about your public shools as a outsider is that you have the best funded public schools in the world and yet they turn out so bad. Seriously how is that possible?
@@anautisticswede6748ur dumb and u draw these distinctions to attempt to explain obvious idiosyncrasies, such as the fact that children in the supposedly “greatest nation” can go to school hungry and without a lunch.
@@anautisticswede6748 Probably administration issues, Public schools are funded by property taxes, so public schools in wealthier areas do better and poorer areas do worse. Also religion is very much favored here. Good luck trying to teach evolution, climate science, or whatever other study thats earned the ire of the local church. Then theres the american exceptionalism that screws over geography or history education. We cant learn about american slavery anymore apparently because it " teaches people to hate america" or some such nonsense.
We do okay in math and reading, or at least we did back in my time. I hear thats getting worse though.
because it's easier to fight the powerless than the people oppressing everyone. identify with those who are keeping you down while persecuting the even more oppressed makes you feel strong, even tho' you're nothing to the rich
@@intellectually_lazy the rich does not have to be the powerfull and just becouse you don't want to fight the rich does not mean you fight against the poor. Look at what pepole say as possitive and negative rights and you will understand how the right thinks a lot better. The economy is not a fixed pie, the shrinking markets model was proven incorrect.
Reading the comments and seeing people utilizing the same tactics in the video is surreal.
There is so much of these arguments in modern discourse. Anything can be downplayed.
Jup, ask the closest enjoyer of disney and their "thanks for letting us film near the gulags" note in mulan 😂
Thanks!
Thank you as well!
I don’t know who you are or how I got here, this was recommended… watched the whole thing great video.
Haha well thanks- glad you enjoyed it!
This has directly evolved into modern arguments around the exploitation of migrant and overseas labor. Pitting poor foreigners against poor Westerners as though the fight's between us (and justifying inhumane labor practices because "otherwise they would also be destitute/living in worse places.")
If you can get the poor to blame all their problems on each other, they'll be too busy fighting to bother looking up.
The culture seems to have a vein of selfishness, perceiving success as the domination of others, and slavery is the apotheosis of this idea. I'd like to see a video that shows the negative effects of slavery despite economic benefits - the social fragmentation and inequality, moral, ethical decay etc.
This was actually something that people at the time spoke of quite often- even those who didn't see a problem with the enslavement of Africans, they felt it was something that 'degraded the moral quality' of Britons.
For example, one of my favourite authors, George Robert Gleig, while complaining of very high prices for most goods in Bermuda, has this to say on the question of slavery on the island:
"That provisions should be dear in this country cannot surprise, when it is considered, that this small colony is the general depot, and place of resort for repairs and stores, to a large proportion of the British navy, scattered along the coast of America; but surely, if the natives were a little more industrious, they might afford to sell their goods at a cheaper rate, and at the same time secure an equal, if not a greater profit. But their indolence is beyond all conception, and can be attributed only to, what I believe is its real cause, the facility with which they acquire fortunes, from men who are necessitated to give whatever they demand for the most trifling article. The poorest and meanest freeman upon the island, never dreams of applying his own hand, or even his own head, to the cultivation of the ground; and being abundantly supplied with negro slaves, they leave every thing, even the care of providing necessaries for themselves, to the industry of that ill-used race.”
It's the old Hegelian master-slave dialectic - the slave becomes strong and overcomes nature through work, while the master atrophies and becomes lazy and ineffectual through inactivity and leisurely life.
and it's also lead to another problem of why we would want tech that not only benefit the slaves but make the whole system useless? sometimes tech DOES help humanity and people in power don't want that to happen so there also might be the technological stagnation aspect to it
You're assuming that slavery HAS economic benefits. Most economists--going as far back as Adam Smith--would disagree.
@@katiem.3109 I don't think there would have been a war if slavery was ineffective at generating wealth for South (and it wouldn't have been prevalent.) It's a testament to the strength of the human spirit and its desire to serve which was exploited (by capitalism) that it worked at all Imho.
3:03 THE TENSION IN YOUR FACE HAS ME DYINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNG 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
Anyone who justifies or diminishes the evil of slavery is a horrible person whom nobody should spend time with.
You’re so brave and good !!! So so powerful I admire your courage
@justinfowler1271 sarcasm detected.
Slavery is evil because there is only one true master.
4:43 I'm from the Caribbean, I've talked like this before though I mostly speak mesolect. In the drawing that would be basilect which is basically complete deviation from the standard language, perfect use of the standard language would be acrolect, mesolect is the in-between that most people speak . We're taught in school that no language is inferior to another, there is merely time and place, the right context, also creole isn't 'broken language', it's a different language with a different grammar, syntax and vocabulary. I kinda got rubbed the wrong way when you said "obviously", sounded like you also thought it sounded uneducated and broken, though I'm sure it wasn't the intention. Anyway, love your content, keep up the good work brother.
As another West Indian, while I agree that Creole is its own language and I believe each island's Creole should be standardised to formalize certain aspects under authority; when the cartoon was generated, this was long before these realizations were made and Creole was seen as broken English, or the slaves' attempt at English. Therefore, given only English had recognition as a language and Creole wasn't conceived of as a concept, the implications of the cartoon *was* to imply the slaves were blissfully uneducated but "living the good life"
Shoutout to Brandon for making perfect content to watch during drawing sessions.
Me too. I spent this half hour drawing an Ethiopian woman.
@ I draw like silly Napoleonic wars stuff. Truly 10/10 experience-
I like the way you connect historical injustice and misdirection by comparing it to the modern day. It really puts stuff into perspective. Also top tier referencing to political cartoons that are meant to make us mad at something else.
The year is 3025. Brandon’s bones have long since turned to dust and fewer and fewer pilgrims make their way to the tomb containing the mummified remains of Atun Shei. Yet MindChip Toubers still must persist in debunking the continuing arguments for slavery.
wtf that Atun Shei line was really creative
holy shit a georgian-era stonetoss cartoon, that really got me
Honestly, arguing against slavery is pretty easy from my perspective.
1. Slavery by its very nature violates the individual property rights of the people being enslaved. Anyone arguing that some people don’t have individual property rights is proving a disingenuous argument.
2. Slavery is extremely inefficient on an economic level. While a few people would get rich off of slavery on scale, the overall economy will stagnate and grow much slower than a slave free capitalist economy with the same population and resources.
And those two arguments by themselves should be enough for most people as they cover both the Ecenomic perspective and the Industrial Rights perspective.
Anyone with disagreements is free to argue their point in the replies.
Playing devil's advocate:
1. "Those people aren't really humans, they are more like children or animals"
2. Might be true, but that wasn't conventional wisdom at the time. I mean, who cares if the economy is poor as long as the rulers benefit?
And let's not forget, the ACW was won by an industrialised economy vs an agricultural one. And that culture was agricultural because the profitable crops would not grow elsewhere. Slavery was the means to support an agricultural economy. You're putting the cart before the horse with this argument.
@@MrZauberelefant
1. Can easily be disproven. While they were deeply racist they never actualy managed to give evidence for anything of theire racist Claims.
I don’t have a lot to say regarding 2(Macroeconomics isn’t really my wheelhouse),
regarding 1: you are assuming that black people are people with the same human dignity as whites. At the time, the race scientists had apparently come to a consensus that black people were in fact, a lower sub species to whites(weirdly enough, the baseline human). Your argument, as True as it is, goes against the prevailing scientific theories of the time. Consider how we view those who rail against the prevailing scientific theories of today. We deride them as “anti vaxers, flat earthers, young earth creationists, conspiracy theorists, etc.”(The lions share of these people are actually bonkers and im not drawing a *moral* equivalence).
You can say the first agrument till the cows come home, but until you destroy the fundamental assumption, you’d sound like somebody demanding chimpanzees be bussed to polling stations on Election Day because “they have just as much a right to vote as we do, and we can’t violate their civil rights.”
@MrZauberelefant well for devils advocate reply number 1, my response is simply nothing. Im engaging with a person who doesn't view other people as people and therefore have nothing further to discuss, i have no interest in what a savage thinks. For number 2, if you're making that argument, you're basically just dismissing the issue so once again, we have nothing further to discuss. Not only that, it's actually not putting the cart before the horse. You said it was an agricultural economy but why does that specifically necessitate an economically unsound and subjectively evil method of labor? Why can't paid workers do the exact same labor for this agricultural economy?
Cool, I'll try:
1.0 rights are imaginative philosophical concepts with no substantial proof in themselves.
1.1 The extension of property rights is an impractical vagueness and therefore is initially invalid. In example, the transformation, seems to give ownership of the object, but does that mean should the boundries of a land be secured, that I have not transformed it's centre, that centre may be taken from me yet?
1.2 Slavery is the fulfilment of property rights, in that it is the wholesale of the self, as owned prior by the self. If it is valid as by contracts to sell the self into temporary labour, why not permanent labour?
2.0 That economics is superfluous, matters of economy are not significant generally to goodness and arguments of economic efficiency are therefore vacuous.
2.1 If slavery was economically inefficient, then it must be explained the success of it's prior use, in ancient civilisations, such as Athens or Rome. Put simply why did anti-slavery not win out until the industrial revolution?
2.2 That even if they are inefficient they may be considered a luxury item and serve more functions than production, in this light slaves should be seen as laudable productive luxuries in comparison to say a deck of cards or fashionable clothes, which are obviously worse for production as luxuries.
How does that address your arguments?
great video, Brandon.
Although i do find it sad that we've reached a point where its common for people to get defensive and say things like "why do you always talk about this". people take history personally so they assume its an attack on them.
15:02 One can argue about whether the Bible prohibits slavery in general, but it does condemn hypocrisy, and the hypocrisy of racially-conditioned slavery in a nation that makes so much of the statement "We hold these Truths to be self evident, that all Men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable Rights, and that among these Rights are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness..." *ought* to be obvious. (It also ought to be noted that Biblical slavery, and slavery in the ancient Mediterranean in general, was not racially conditioned, a rich man that took out loans beyond his means might find himself apprehended, his property confiscated, and himself thrown in with his former slaves, so there was, at least in theory, more equality to the whole thing).
It is a complicated question. Plenty of Religious bodies (Even the Catholic Church in 1686.) were against slavery.
Sometimes institutions that are either Christian adjacent, affiliated or the "main authority" on it stray away from what is true for selfish gain, so did catholic church which is at least to me outrageous and shameful.
We should be above the material cravings and greed, upholding the line of what is right.
The Bible never says slavery is a good thing, but more acknowledges it as a consequence of human sin. Like "this sucks but im you got just kinda deal with it " not a great take, but I mean that's how everyone in the ancient world thought
@@Winaskanot sure everyone in the ancient world thought "it sucked", but your point makes sense, considering that "race" as we understand it is a modern concept that ancient people probably either didn't have at all or understood very differently, and very rarely would policy or economy be divided on those grounds. Romans first enslaved other latins, rather than foreigners, to give an example, not out of principle but simply because they're closer to home and thus more numerous consequently statistically more likely to end up enslaved.
And yet, it is hard to also consider it simply a "fact of life", as plenty of times was slavery portrayed as an injustice... when practiced upon the writers of a document or story, but oftentimes was the enslavement of another group of people consider a just "spoil of war" or adequate "punishment" of some sort.
My point is: people always look for ways to justify their evil deeds, and when those deeds are widely practiced you'll more often see even more excuses towards that, but rarely will those excuses hold when the evil deeds are performed upon them. It is always a matter of privilege.
@ fair points
Dudes will say slaves have it pretty good compared to free men and then call socialism the devil
Capitalism, socialism, communism are all evil Corporatism or Distributism is good
@MassachusettsTrainVideos1136 this is crazy propaganda.
"Corporatism" as you say has led to the largest wealth disparity in human history. Wealth earned how?
People want slavery back, but don't want to be the enslaved.
Thank you for being a white man and telling the truth. People would have you believe slavers were not evil because it was "normal." No, people back then could see other humans suffering as wrong, and stood up for it even when it was of no benefit to themselves.
yeah and again slavery lead to othe rproblem that at some point slavery should be solve or else the world well be more worse off than today
The Stonetoss callout hit me like a brick, felt so weird hearing that gremlins name in a setting thats not satrical lol
If anything the wages of an unenslaved worker in a society where slavery exists are likely to be pushed downwards by the need to compete with workers who don't have a wage. The assumption that the economy is zero sum between wage laborers and slaves fundamentally ignores the basic fact that employers and slaveowners want to make a profit and therefore would prefer to spend as little on labor, enslaved or otherwise, as possible.
Slaves could be owned as nationalized property, and proceeds could be distributed amongst the citizens. It's honestly shocking that a system as incredibly profitable as slavery was ever opposed. It seems so rare that morality wins out over comfort.
@@dazed4days87 people are still enslaved by the state, with "proceeds" distributed as you described.
13th Amendment.
Yes, I often think about how non slave owners had it harder because they had to compete with very low cost labour (harder than in a free market).
It has also been argued, the Romans for all their innovative technogy and engineering, didn't have an industrial revolution, because they didn't want or need labour saving devices.
@@dazed4days87 Morality didn't win, the current system is more profitable for the current situation for the current ruling class.
That's only if there are no minimum wage and no unions preventing that.
I'm only a few minutes in, but this is a great topic for a video. I used to teach US history and I found that mentioning the fact that slaveowners used the women AND the men for whatever nonconsensual bedroom desires turns a lot of young edgelords off of slavery. Hard to talk about in a youtube video, but many men would gladly put up with tax bills if it meant they could avoid that. We all agree the Lord's right to a first night was abhorrent. Imagine that but its every night. Slavery was more abhorrent than many people realize, and that is one appeal to emotion that seems to stick.
Keep up the great work.
Lord first night never existed in general beyond very specific cases. It is an invention. If it existed in exchange for a tax cut, many would accept it today. What is a night compared to the evil of taxation?
@@ronfink1415tell that to your spouse..."honey, I think I will let the rich person r4p3 you, because in the long run, we'll benefit from it financially.
But then, you would also link the right to food and shelter to labour....
Maybe get out of the basement
People have always known that slavery was something evil. We were just born knowing that, like how we know that throwing a child off a cliff is evil.
it was the justification; that was/is the problem.
another great video Brandon. I really love how you emphasize how the debates around slavery back then are relevant for the modern day.
Slavery arguments situation just got CRAZIER
It's about time that you get to talk about slavery in Brazil.
Brazil had the BIGGEST slave Economy in the hole world at the time, the Portuguese were the ones to traffic the biggest number of people, even more than England. The Dutch even tried to get a slice of this trade by capturing the Nordeste region of Brazil and later the city of Luanda, with the intentions of feeding the growing need of slaves, and what happened? They were not able to do so, because only the Portuguese had the knowledge to make it as profitable as it was.
From giving hair cuts, collective baths, any wounds made in the journey from Africa being treated, the slave's skin being exfoliated with rocks or sand, any white hairs painted black or removed completely, receiving better food so they looked more healthy than they really were, all of this to have them sold for a higher price in the shores of Brazil.
The jesuit Jorge Benci, who lived in the state of Bahia for 17 years, made the recommendation to slave owners that any punishment who totalized a number higher than 40 whippings should be distributed along the week, never in a single day, as he said "30 or 40 today, more 30 or 40 after 2 days, until the sentence was done..."
But we do have reports of slaves receiving punishments of 200, 300 and even 600 whippings in a single day.
And what they used to prevent this open wounds from getting infected made it everything even worse.
The fact this video got a PragerU ad is ironic
I don't think you understand the definition of irony, or your political lense is so blurred with bias that you don't see anything beyond the lenght of thy nose.
@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 sometimes a word might not have a dictionary definition but we can try and understand that word in a context. Cos prager u did a video somehow is a opposite to this and the word to use for this that came to mind is "ironic" 😂
@@evansnyamesah1755 Careful now, he might not be firing on all cylinders.
@@Finnishnat-conservativedot7126 PragerU did a video on slavery basically repeating the talking points Brandon addresses. If you know so little about a topic, why use your hands to type a comment?
@@MrZauberelefant
You are vaguely saying that yet you have no receipts to back up any claims, it's not about laziness but rather a burden of evidence being brought upon the accuser.
Name the video, moment and I will look it up at once.
I don't want to watch this, not from disagreement, but from want to maintain my happiness for today.
May this comment serve, at least somewhat, as a suitable offering to the ALGORITHM in place of watch time.
It really does not matter what 'context" is imposed. Treating another human being as cattle and or property is inhumane and definitively evil. It's an old evil no nation is free from.
Treating another human being as cattle? Tell that to the Jews. They literally call us goyim (cattle).
@@FreeAmericaFromIsraelhop off Hitlers dick bro
@@FreeAmericaFromIsrael
>has never read the talmud for himself
@@peqbox ">"? The rabbi's appealing to 4chan users now? Shalom... And what I said is gone
@@minoreror9961 You are the reason why they call us "cattle"
I'm so glad to have found your channel.
We really do need more people like you dismantling these "arguments" in an accessible format, showing them for what they actually are.
Slavery never ended. A lot of products we enjoy today are only even market viable because of basically slave labor
I’m on the edge of my seat to see what wacky and horrifying adventures await little Timmy!
I love how the slavers subtley hinted how ordinary English people gained nothing from slavery and remained poor. And America tries to replicate this order to this day.
Slavery has arguments? I thought everyone just knew owning people was wrong
Yeah, but people needed to justify why they were doing it at the time
Especially in American slavery. Because while slavery existed everywhere, in the Americas slavery was modified by being based on race and made permanent and hereditary chattel so that whites involved could maximize profits from plantations.
"Georgian era stonetoss cartoon" Holy fucking shit I'm subscribing.
Immediately
This is one of the finest analyses of a sophistry I've seen in years, and admirably balanced -- not just harping on "Here's why Those People who use it are wrong," but upon "Here's why it's important to recognize when _anyone, including your political allies,_ make use of it." I will also say that, in my (limited) experience, it can be useful to highlight how much of a _red herring_ this variety of whataboutism always is.
The saying "slaves don't have to pay taxes and i do maybe they have it better" sounds like a modern shitpost
It's insane how people are *still*!!!! making these arguments today claiming black people were better off as slaves
Behind the argument is a resentment towards having to pay any wages at all. Things seldom change.
"Oho, you think conditions in West Indian sugar plantations are poor? Sounds like somebody's in the pocket of Big Abolition."
Darn you Brandon! I was just in the bus a few minutes ago! Now I don’t have time to watch!
Long time subscriber, just want to say well said man. Great episode, It's good that you are raising awareness of this type of rhetoric, now more that ever.
it's like if someone drove by a jail courtyard and stated "wow they don't need to pay rent, eat for free, AND have a courtyard to do whatever they want and the only downside is forced labor? they're having it better than me!"
I swear to God, my own father said this a few months ago.
I asked him 'So given the choice, you'd rather go to prison than stay here at home watching TV?'
He did not respond.
@@Elrond_Hubbard_1depends on the prison some of the european ones are disgustingly kind. Also some do choose to go to prison, elderly, sick, poor, usually those with bad situations so yeah some do choose the prison. I'm sure you have heard of people committing a crime only to immediately turn themselves in.
"get out of hell card" a subtle and clever bit of humour to light up a very dark topic
This is the rhetoric is about distracting the issues away from imperialism and unrestrained capitalism and shift the blame to the disenfranchised.
the correct response to slavery apologists is reminding them that the Nintendo Switch had a lifecycle of 5 years.
"Oh way down south in the land of traitors"
Can you talk about warfare in the Americas? Here in Bolivia, we imported german generals for all of our wars, and we lost all of them 😂😂😂
I'm sorry; that was funny asf. Like a monty python skit.
Yeah, the ss sssucked
Another classic cook session. Proud subscriber
3:16 Brandon just white-knuckling it through the script right there
Anarchist Theory would have pretty good counter arguments
In addition to having better support systems than Charity (Charities legally only need to spend 25% of their donations every year the rest they could "Theoretically" hold indefinitely.
The practice that best supports communities are direct support (cash funds or whatever) / mutual aid
anarchists and all marxists are even more against personal freedom than the worst slavers
@@Choodcel "Anarchists are against personal freedom" funniest shit I've heard all day.
i'd also suggest that a second most dangerous argument is similar to this whataboutism, but used in "diluting" the horror- a common tactic, sometimes even unknowingly used by those who want to point out problems now! it goes like "slavery was bad yes, but there was always slavery in the past and they were equally bad, and really, are modern indentured servitude, prison labour, harsh factory conditions outside the eye of regulation really much better?" And sometimes it's the inverse desire: some people will draw parallels that modern labour conditions can be just as degrading as slavery in order to point out that some workers nowadays face similar treatment.
The takeaway *should* be "yeah both are bad and ultimately stem from political centralisation in an elite and disenfranchisement/division of working peoples, and if I'm against one type of slavery I must advocate and act to stop the other types" but *unfortunately* a lot of people instead takeaway that "oh since i'm mostly ok with things are now/i can mostly stomach it... i guess slavery wasnt that horrifically bad?"
To be fair voluntary prison labor done right can greatly aid in the reformation of convicts, not that Id fully trust the government to do it right as it is utterly incompetent and corrupt, nor would I trust private prisons which should not exist anyway. If its done in a non-revenue generating fashion that can reduce operating cost and solely on a volunteer basis It better than having the prisoners stew up better ways to hurt people.
Also I had a coworker say "being told to picking grapes off the stems, for fruit cups, is slave labor", they were being paid fair wages for it.
An argument I've regularly encountered is that slavery in the American south was bad, but not as bad as (insert area here).
Ok. I have a dowl rod and an axe handle. I'm not going to beat you with the axe handle, is that a good thing?
"i'm against slavert to boot" ....I knew it! Clear bias from the start =)
Based bias
Lmao