Why Relic Guitars Over Vintage
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- Опубліковано 8 бер 2024
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#vintageGuitar #relicguitar
I’m humored by people who are in a holy war against relics. Guys 95% of guitars sold, maybe more, aren’t relic’d. There’s no shortage of guitars for you.
Exactly!
True but it’s still has a cheesy element. I do eventually plan on buying Strat parts unfinished and painting it with Tru Oil which gives it a natural feel to it. It will look brand new but with a natural worn in feel to it without the “cheesy” cosmetics
@@ramencurry6672 enjoy the build!
The relic guitars paint never ages the same as a vintage guitar if that’s important to you.
I have a closet full of 30-50 yr old gigged guitars, only one looks anything like a relic and i know where each divot came from. Just can’t see paying a bunch of money for damage i try to avoid. Sound… its a finish issue not a fake wear issue
Great video! It was pretty astonishing when refinishing that Eric Clapton Stratocaster in a nitro cellulose lacquer for the neck and the body how much of a sound change it made. There will always be preferences as to what people prefer the sound of, but there definitely is a difference in sound. I think it’s pretty indicative of the finish effecting the end product sonically in one way or the other. On my guitar, the polyurethane seem to add more mid range, where are the nitrous cellulose seem to scoop out a lot of the upper mid range, especially. We controlled for as many variables as possible, including pick up height and string height on the fretboard. We played everything to a click track and put all the potentiometers in the exact same position. Same strings, etc.
Thanks, Mason! I thought your video was awesome as well. Clearly showed the difference and one is neither better nor worse, right? Thanks a lot for letting me use the footage as well, my friend!
Interesting video thanks Jeff. In my experience The frets give up (need replacing) long before I get a really relicd look on the rest of the slightly used or new guitar.
Love relics for the look and feel. I have a Fender CS and 2 Nash guitars . All amazing.
Love the dynamics in your playing on this one. Jeff!:
Thank you!!
I love the feel and sound of my Road Worns and have played vintage and rarely (never) feel compelled to shell out big bucks for vintage.
I love the road worns.
EXCELLENT Video. FANTASTIC Playing. HONEST and STRAIGHT Forward. Thank You.
Thank you!
You are VERY welcome. Thank you for your videos.
Loved this Jeff. So much to remember.
Thanks Keith!
I have OCD and it helps me not care about scratches/babying a guitar if it's already been nicked.
There is definitely that!
How about this...Fender should charge less for relics because they don't have to take as much care with the finish, fir example they needn't be concerned with flawless gloss finish, they could throw on satin paint then let the paint shop casually complete them along with B stockers (humor intended). No ultra fine sanding and polishing/ buffing needed. Just an idea.
@@jillwebb775 The reason they're more expensive is all the extra hand-work to take them from the shiny gloss finishes off the paint booth to the familiar, worn state a relic provides.
My guitar sounds different almost every time I play it( every hr) maybe cos the components are constantly expanding and contracting with the environment it's in, hot/ cold/ small room/ big hall/ strings etc etc , an instrument is an organic machine...oh and some of us have accute hearing and it is a curse.
Great video Jeff! Totally agree with you. Amazing playing as always!!
Thanks Aaron!!! I know your collection and obviously agree! Hope you are well.
Owfff Jeff did you real just get in the ring with this debate 😂😂. Love relic guitars nothing to crazy just well worn. But man it really gets people hot under the collar 😂😂
YT loves controversy!
Everything sounds better when you play it a lot, including your own playing. Practice makes everyone, even the guitars, better.
Well there is that. lol.
What a fantastic video have a wonderful weekend Jeff also it is time to set our clocks one hour to spring forward ❤😊
Thanks for the reminder! I’m had forgotten!!
I went down the path of ordering a FCS. I got it NOS, because I want to beat it up myself. I did get thin satin lacquer and I did have the board rolled. So best of both worlds...
🙌🏻
Just like you said, its like buying a pair of distressed jeans. Love it or leave it i guess! I always (almost) buy non relicd new or used. I put my own miles on it.
Agreed. I honestly like both, for example a relic PRS would be ridiculous.
Jeff I think I must have missed the video were you introduce the new custom shop 1954 strat. Or haven't you done a video on it just yet?
I have not done the video yet! I will do so soon!
I did a refin on a friends 95 Strat and went through the same thing. No amount of chemical stripper would touch the poly. The heat gun did the trick. I sprayed it with nitro and my friend is happy.
hey Jeff, always an interesting debate here, bottom line is if you find one that feels good in your hands and 'sounds' good, go with it...I have a Fender Road Worn Strat, modelled after Waddy Wachtel's 50's style Strat. It's my desert island pick...only thing I had to do was raise the action a bit higher than I was use to, to keep it from fretting out above the 12th fret. Love your vids, keep them coming, wishing you the best of health and happiness always!
Agreed! People get pretty heated about this stuff and I find it kind of funny. Whatever you like and works for you is right for you. Thanks for being here and all the best to you as well!
Great video Jeff!
When are you going to tell us about that new Strat????
Soon!
Where can we find that backing track? 😊
For me it's about tone, I'm a luthier and like to work my necks into the rolled feel, install new reproduction pickups and pots and use period correct caps on electrics. I always prefer nitro finish or French polish for finishes. I also prefer bone nuts for all guitars and bone bridges if it's acoustic.
Forgot to add that relics do the same but usually also wear the finish down. My necks are smoothed so they do feel like a relic finish. Buyers seem to like the feel.
Killer playing and tone on that nice custom made piece of art 😉
🤔🙌🏻🙌🏻
Best and really only two reasons for relics for me is the feel and comfort of rolled fretboard edges and that guitar does not stay too precious to play and gig with because it is cosmetically perfect. That said, I actually try to take care of my guitars and prefer them perfect because they are pieces of art and poly is great for that. For the two relics that I have had I wanted a light relic/journeyman because it still looks like it is in good condition and doesn’t look phony because the aging was overdone.
What about varnish finishes?
Another factor is even a new and cheap guitar can be set up to that sweet spot. That guitar may take a little more playing, then another set up . Eventually, your guitar will keep its tone and feel . If it is worth maintaining. It could even have a legacy. "Priceless"
Cheers Jeff.....i fully agree with you on this......the more you play (and the "older" it gets) the instrument, the better it sounds...the wood dries and starts to "vibrate" and the neck gets worn and played in...sure. i recently got 2 (!!!) "new" guitars a prs sc se 594 and a Gibson SG 61 "faded" one....and i really can feel the difference with the thin laquer on the SG...it really vibrates lovely...cheers
p.s. and my "oldest" prs se (and cheapest) sounds and plays best of them all
Spot on! Enjoy aging those guitars!
haa..the trouble is....i'm ageing faster than my guitars.....nevermind the "relicking" haha....cheers....@@JeffMcErlain
I totally agree with you about the more you play a guitar, the better it sounds. Just not over night. I have a few guitars, both acoustic and electric, that I've owned from new for more than 10 years and at some point with all of them I started to notice how much better they were sounding. That point though was closer to the 10 year mark rather than the 6 months mark.
It can take years but sometimes it starts to happen pretty quickly.
Some people get uptight about putting fender decaLs on headstock because its like making a counterfeit Fender. Whats your take Jeff? By the way excellent discussion!
I don’t mind as long as someone doesn’t try to sell it as a Fender. Once it’s my guitar I can do what I like with it! But I’d never try to sell it as an actual Fender. I certainly can understand Fender getting upset about that though.
Thanks for yet another excellent video whichever side of the relic debate we sit on - not least for the great playing! I'm sure that you won't mind me saying that to me there's more than a little of a Jeff Beck feel to it
Who? 😂. Any mention of one of my heroes anywhere near my playing is quite appreciated and humbling.
I own a Fender custom shop 60’s reissue “lush closet”. It has the characteristics of a well taken care of Strat with lacquer checking. It’s a phenomenal instrument. Compared to my USA Polyurethane Strat, it feels, plays and sounds way better. It rings out way better, it’s way lighter, just as you said and it doesn’t sound dull, if it’s the right word, it has a certain snappiness, that instantly reminded me of a great vintage 60’s Strat that I once had the privilege to play. And last but not least I couldn’t care less about dings and dongs compared to my ‘59 reissue VOS LP where I got really upset every time I made a ding into it.
Agree on all points!!
Great video Jeff, but I do think that all those fantastic sounds we know from the sixties, for example, did not come from vintage guitars because they were new at that time!
The conundrum…
So what about new, relic’ed guitar vs a vintage refinished guitar? Also for anyone looking to get something close to a vintage guitar, out of all the guitars I’ve tested (a lot) SVL tops the list of who I would go to.
So many options. Simon makes a fine guitar.
2009 Road Worn 50s made in Mexico Strat is my #1. Over newer Fender custom shops in my collection. Bought it because the neck and sunburst are exactly like my dad's 1957 which is not leaving the house and is part of the retirement portfolio. The silly looking relic job on the finger board is now pretty authentic looking because I rubbed ashes and a compound I got from a professional antique woodworking guy into it. But yeah man, hated how they completely failed on the weird non guitar player relic to the fingerboard. Now have a hard time with any non-Relic'd Fender or Gibson. I always thought of Instruments very much like a magic wand. If you don't feel magic from it, its not your wand. Great topic for a chat.
I like wand analogy. Ollivanders!
@@JeffMcErlain I know so Harry Potter, right? Swear I felt that back in the 1970s when I started.
I wouldn't be able to take the poly finish off my black strat. The poster on my wall as a teenager was of Jimi with his!
According to Rory Gallagher’s brother Donal, Rory had a high acidic content in his blood (something on those lines) which obviously came out in his sweat and that was the reason for the condition of his strat. And in the nicest possible way, the second g in Gallagher is silent. That’s how we pronounce here in Ireland and that’s how Rory pronounced it. I know it changed when it got across the pond, and that’s fine.
Declan O’Dwyer. Ireland
Thanks for the info and proper pronunciation. I sincerely appreciate that! 🙌🏻🙌🏻
@@JeffMcErlain You’re very welcome. Thank you for channel, very cool content always from a great musician. Peace.
Jeff, I have a AVR 57 Fender Stratocaster,1989..what type of finish did they put on those?
Do you know?
I don’t unfortunately!
@@JeffMcErlain No problem, great channel by the way!!
Interesting thoughts on the subject Jeff. Vintage > Relic > New, (But not always, as things go). I've had a few strats over the years, each had their own thing- Tokai in '85 had a nice vintage feel but was new. Fender Japan '87 with Poly finish, sounded cheap but well finished. American Standard with Poly sounded nice but 9.5 radius. Clapton Strat in '87, I think Poly finish, that was its own thing (Lace Sensors). Schecter Strat '95 with oiled natural Ash - really resonant and everything beautiful except the shallow neck, and finally a '22 Mex Road Worn with CS 60's pups. The Road Worn is easily my favourite - feels great to play, sounds great, thin nitro, not too bothered about extra wear and dings, and it really reminds me of a Vintage 61 I tried in the mid 80's but couldn't afford it. By the way Jeff, your playing and tone sounds beautiful in the vid. Regards.
Thank you on your compliment, I really appreciate it. Your guitar experiences are similar to mine.
is that a 54 reissue?
I have an old arch top Jeff could you recommend a repair shop?
Where do you live ?
@@JeffMcErlain Silver spring Maryland, DC ,Baltimoreish ,Lancaster PA, Ephrata Pa. Area....
It's a vintage guitar
We used to buy jeans with holes in them in the 80s and90s
Your Jeff Beck bend video was Real genius insight. Hahaha Grumpy luthier post follows. . . What about custom made instruments from Luthiers? After the multitude of sound chain choices from frets to amp mics - there’s great personalized local Luthier’s setup. I’ve loved gear-Muddy Waters gave me a thumb pick in the 70’s, I miss it, needed it for the magic. But Relic, Murphy lab? Wonderful Romanticism says My Oscilloscope and 25 years of Warmoth ‘Electric’ builds, still I Identify having owned the “original 60’s , 70’s” guitars back then. The data may mean this old guitar, relic , Murphy lab movement is Boomer Love for things historic as we are now. There’s a number of actual recordings by guitar hero’s relying on collectible guitars; but more often axes are treated more like tools not stamp collections, Beck, Santana,Richards etc. After pickup choice, fret size choice, string choice, body wood choice, tuner choice, electrics choice, amp, mic choice . . . Then A great local Luthier’s setup often trumps all. Never mind the mixing board and PA and pedal chain- but all said Musicians are beautiful people but they’re being exploited a bit by the Big Brands. Meanwhile a Luthier can build exactly what you need to hear even down to your hand size.
I have custom guitars. This “strat” is one, built by a luthier. I love them but I like them to feel like an old guitar and I like it to say Fender on it. I know the Fender part is silly but I like it. 😉
I agree, we are sitting ducks!
You nailed it. It’s what works best for you, and play it, a lot. I neither like nor dislike relics, but wouldn’t buy one. I have 3 AVRI Strats, a 1982, 3 owner, gigged and well worn ‘57, a 2012 part worn ‘62, & a 2022 Vii ‘61 which just got its first ding. Guess which sounds tonally the best.
🙌🏻🙌🏻
There is something about guitars being played…? I put together a couple of Parts-casters that sound good, but are sounding better over time. Had an actual ‘66 Tele that was a pig, had a life, and sounded great. Just never got on with the neck shape/size?
Strats and Teles always look sexy with a little relic. Gibson, not so much? I like what Novo is doing. I like what PRS does. Agree that the ULTRA relic, is VERY hard to get right, and most of the time looks stupid.
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All guitars are great! Some are just better than others! 😉
Yeah it’s funny my DGT I don’t wanna have it beaten up too much.
What kind of pickups do you use jeff
Those are Ron Ellis, 1954s
“I just think they look cool.” That will do.
Yup.
This theory, which is belonging to you.
Which is to say is mine.
wait-is that the custom shop version of the 70th anniversary 54?
anyhow, agree. guessing oz noy feels similarly based on the fcs and gretsch cs stuff he plays.
i think fender custom shop and gibson murphys and the wonderful historic makeovers stuff are killin.
i’d rather have five beautiful relics that I can enjoy-and I play a different guitar every couple days- just makes life fun can’t do that with women girlfriends partners but you can do it with guitars- then one vintage guitar that I have to worry about and spend a bunch of money on insurance for and never take out of the house and spend money on maintenance etc. lastly, I have a good friend who is very wealthy, who only for the most part buys vintage. and he has some wonderful vintage stuff that is definitely awesome but I don’t have the kind of money he has and he’s also had some stuff that I played it and I was like like, meh. so yeah, I’m a fan of new relics all things considered. pro tip (from an amateur) try to avoid buying any brand new fender, Gibson or really any other new guitar try to find something you love on the used market because as soon as you buy it, it’s worth anywhere from 1000 to 2000 less than you paid, and to be honest as somebody who buys and sells a lot of guitars over the years, the only ones that really move quickly are fenders, and Gibson’s even PRS and collings’-well maybe not most collings!- will sit around just a little FYI
I agree with you on all these points! The guitar is a 54 relic made for me by a friend whose name I cannot divulge due to the headstock issue.😉
@@JeffMcErlain gotcha! just in time got the launch of fenders own 70th snni strats. 👊
The only thing about relics that I have found out is they look good now. But the colour won’t change like a real vintage guitar. I have an orange two tone Strat to prove it.
It depends on who did it right? If you get someone who does the dyes properly along with the original nitro. Agreed Fender® does not do this. But alas, it is not a real vintage guitar.
I’ve spent decades regularly cleaning and polishing at string changes and agonizing over every ding. I just don’t get paying a 3000 dollar premium to have the factory beat the crap out of one for me.
sometimes when I get up in the morning my Vintage Strat (reissued) sounds so much better than the night before ... ;-)
Funny how that happens.
LOL - and then there is the OCD factor...I had a poly strat, foolishly I didn't have the strap on right and watched it fall to the ground in slow mo....big nasty paint chip,....every single time I picked up that strat I could not stop from staring in disgust at the one and only blemish......a few years later in1998 I bought a 96 custom shop relic strat.... I'm sure I have put some dings and scratches in it since but DANG if I can identify any...OCD issue solved! 🤓
Ha!!
Psychosomatic. Now that's a $64 word. I've found the '50's Fenders, mostly Tele's, didn't feel or sound right until the early '60's models. The relic's do feel and played better. Plus it was easier to find what you wanted, obviously. Gibson's a different story. They seem to always sound right and with weight considerations, feel great. I had several '50's Les Paul's. and the new one's are incredible. Although I must buy the used for financial considerations. All the re-issues are great but The '59 Les Paul R-9's..30 years on I haven't played a bad one yet. Thanks Jeff.
Yup. There is something about a relic that’s usually better to me.
I've been using Brooklyn Lutherie (Mamie) for about 10 yrs for my (Wes Montgomery ) L5. It's a warhorse guitar and I want to get it cleaned up and have some slight restoration of finish done in spots (specifically a small dent). I know about 30th St. of course but, any other recommendations re: slight restoration, send them my way.
Good to know!!!
I'm surely not the only one wondering who built you that '54 clone Jeff? That certainly doesn't look like the work of the FCS.
It is not but I cannot divulge that information under pain of death.
👍
Jack Pearson plays an $87 Squier
He does.
I dont like the heavy heavy relic....specially on a maple fingerboard. But a light wear heavt age(time machine or closet classic) is nice....light wear is the paint chips etc...heavy aging is just cracks and discoloration and such...
I wander into a guitar shop, or maybe any other shop selling guitars. I see one with a worn fingerboard..naturally worn because it's been played a lot, maybe by several people. The body is a bit worn, again it's been played a lot.
This is the guitar I'm going to be drawn to.
Providing the wear is real..
I have both and am totally cool with them both. Guitars are fun.
@@JeffMcErlain Totally agree Jeff. I have a few I've relict myself and yes I'm happy with them. I have no reason not to be.
What I meant was if I see one, and it might not be a vintage guitar, maybe only 10 or 20 years old, but it's worn through being played. This tells me it's been played a lot which should mean it's a good guitar, playability wise and tone wise. So this is the one I'd pick up first.
But even if it's a "relict" one I won't ignore it. Like you say I also prefer a guitar that at least looks like it's been played a lot.
On this subject, if you haven't seen it, Dave Simpson bought an old guitar a year or so back for £40.00. This thing looked so bad most would have chucked it in a skip. The body is in awful condition, looks like it's been walloped with a lump hammer. It looks like the body is made from papier mache. But, after a little fettling and naming it the Battercaster he plugged it in. And it sang. It sounded stunning.
Mind you Dave can make a 99 quid guitar sound like a custom shop job..
Even if a guitar looks like it's a bit of a wreck..within limits...doesn't mean it won't play and sound fantastic.
Like the old saying. Don't judge a book by it's cover.
❤😊
can't 'buy' your free arpeggio lesson. it's there in the cart and i'm signed in to teachable... the 'get it for free' button in the cart does NOTHING
I appreciate your obvious frustration. I’ve not really been having any problems with anyone else signing up. Do me a favor and try a different browser, that often works.
People who don’t like or understand relic guitars have NEVER picked up or tried one. It’s a real experience. You actually play better and feel like you could play it forever. It’s NOT like a rusty car. What a stupid comment that was LOL.
I should have said this… lol.
I call them artificially aged. It’s more honest. The problem isn’t that these artificially aged guitars exist. The problem is the people who buy them are embarrassed and feel the need to validate their purchase by getting people to say they like them too. If you like a guitar because it “looks old” that’s your business. Don’t worry about what other people think.
Hear hear!
Waaaaaitaminute, did you buy another Strat?
Maybe?
At the risk of sounding like my wife, I’m sure you already have a guitar like that. :)
Ha! My wife steers clear of that pitfall.
relics are like buying skate pre-scratched and banged up slo people think you do rail slides ang grinds all day or paying more for a sports car pre-rusted and dented so people think your a Series B rally driver......i doubt anyone who buys them actually tours cross country for years playing 3 gigs a week
ha! I happen to know many touring musicians, myself included, who play relics. For the same reasons I do, they like them. Many of them don’t want you to tour with them vintage instruments as well for the reasons I’ve mentioned, we want something like the vintage guitar we love.
Relic guitars always look fake that's the bottom line. The Gibsons are the worst and Fender's right behind them.
You're blind dude...how the heck do you know??
@@telefrk49 How do I know? Because I am 78 and have dealt guitars since I was 17. Of the literally hundreds of guitars I've owned off and on over the years, I've owned easily 25 pre-CBS Strats. I gigged a bender-equipped '54 Tele for 23 years along with a '57 Strat. I've owned a bunch of old Gibsons, acoustic and electric. You ever own a Bigsby-equipped Les Paul SG? Or the 18th Strat ever made? A '55 fancy pants Gretsch 6120 in burgundy, complete with all of the cowboy whoo-rah? Go away son. If you cannot see the difference between genuine vintage guitars and what Fender/Gibson are pumping out, I pity you...
Relic Guitars = stolen valor
Ha!
Say guys that can't afford them...
I have a 72 strat and wouldn’t entertain a new ‘relic’. You’re right on every aspect of a vintage.
LOVE big headstock Strats!
@@JeffMcErlain hard tail and three switch way all the way