This Lord of the Rings "Documentary" is Messy
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- Опубліковано 15 лис 2024
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Today, we examine another documentary! This one is pretty messy, folks.
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So cool that you're getting in-frame advertising dollars -- you're becoming a respected channel! Congratulations!
TOTES🥝💝💯...🇺🇳🦄🅱️UT....
..D🅾️ THEY HAV #HAIRY👣👣 #SMELL💤
Do I have to wait months to try a bunch of different ones? Do they have scents for gentlemen?
Ya, because MOST women DO NOT read it, just jump on the bandwagon. And yourself are trying to sell shit. So, proves the point.
IF YOU WANT TO TALK ABOUT GENDER LIKE ITS AN ACCOMPLISHMENT: A MAN WROTE THE DAMN BOOK; LIKE ALL THE OTHERS THAT ARE PART OF POP CULTURE: NOW YOU CAN CITE THE ONE EXCEPTION LIKE AN :::::
Are we sure Tolkien wasn’t just trolling everyone in his interviews by speaking his own invented language and making it JUST close enough to English for the sake of plausible deniability?
And he had an elaborate explanation for how "Interviewë" evolved from earlier languages, complete with vowel shifts and accretion of foreign vocabulary elements.
well now, I hadn't considered this
Boo! Hiss!
Somehow, your videos subtitles explain what he says very well.
What I heard was something/where being destroyed and there was a library there.
Your subtitles say something destroyed on Mana Road with a combined English and law library there.
By the way, I did not know Edith was older than Tolkien. Makes me think of the fact that his most famous romances, Beren-Luthien and Aragorn-Arwern, also has an older female partner.
Beren and Luthien are borderline self-insert-characters. Like it literally says Beren and Luthien on Tolkien and Edith's graves. And Aragorn-Arwen is itself a cosmic call-back of sorts to Beren-Luthien, bringing togheter the two lines of half-elves by recreating the initial elf-human couple.
Yeah, he was pretty explicit about Beren and Luthien being based on/inspired by his own romance
"Manor Road, of course, everything is destroyed. I mean, Manor Road, which I lived at - ha, ha - has now been completely destroyed and is an enormous combined English and Law Library built there." Seemed clear enough to me... Ronald, Edith and Priscilla lived at No. 3 Manor Road in Oxford from 1947 to 1950.
I think that's exactly it. Well done!
Yes, it's perfectly clear to me, too.
I think this is the most correct version.
You get the award she can’t give.
You get award!! Congrats!!!! 😂
When folk say that Tolkien’s characters are uninteresting or underdeveloped, I am quite certain they have not read the books or read bits of them once when they were 11.
Tolkien's word are in fact "it is my hope that in the future a fair lady will use some form of pocket cinema device, thingy, to extol the virtues of my work"
I think it is clear what Tolkien is saying.
Sure, he mumbles it. But it is there.
Listen again and you'll hear it...
He says:
"Never gonna give you up. Never gonna let you down. Never gonna run around and desert you..."
Nice. JRRolled.
Imagine how good these books would be if they had characters and descriptions
11:42 Tolkien said in one of his letters that Numenoreans don't grow facial hair, because of their part-elf origins, so this is not inaccurate.
Ha! I was introduced to Tolkien by my fourth-grade teacher, who read The Hobbit to us. She was fantastic; and quite real!
It's interesting how that works, isn't it. Though I found Tolkien when I was a teenager, my fourth grade teacher read "The Adventures of Marco Polo" during the first half of the school year, and "The Hound of the Baskervilles" in the second half. I've been a fan of Sherlock Holmes stories ever since, and when I read "The Hobbit" and ultimately "The Lord of the Rings," I was hooked for life. I still read LOTR at least once a year and have done so for more than 50 years. On each reading, I discover something I missed in all my previous readings. Unpeeling all the layers of LOTR is a lifetime pursuit.
My 5th grade class read The Hobbit, and the teacher was a woman.
I still have the paperback copies of all 3 volumes of Lord of the Rings that my 6th Grade English teacher gave me after I finished the Hobbit in a week, when we were only supposed to do one chapter. They are pretty care-worn, now. I think Return of the King is missing a cover.
It was my 6th grade teacher, Mrs. Davis who read us The Hobbit in 1976. She turned me into a lifelong reader. Teachers are the best!
To be fair, there are times where Tolkien leaves out describing some important stuff. There is still a lot of argument about whether a Balrog has wings or if Elves have pointed ears or not. And Orcs as Tolkien saw them are really only described in a letter, not in the book. Which is why illustrations can very so wildly from each other.
If you want to know what the landscape looks like though, there is PLENTY to go on.
I think that final line says a lot about Tolkien doesn't it!
There's no debate about Balrogs having wings or not. They don't. They never fly, they repeatedly die through falling, and the "wings" in the part of Moria in the story are very obviously an analogy when read in context. The shadow around the Balrog is described like wings.
@@vexaris1890 yeah, the proponents of winged Balrogs are mostly movie-onlies and pleople who just think they look cooler with wings
don't forget the food
@@marceloantunes998 Balrogs were depicted with wings long before the movies. I will agree a close reading of the text show the Balrog's are wingless, but isn't obvious, hence why so many miss it.
My mom was the one who introduced my family to Middle Earth. She had The Hobbit and all the Lord of the Rings books. Made sure my siblings and I read them before we could watch the movies. LOL
And as a lady myself, I've read the Hobbit multiple times and I've taught it to a middle-school class.
If this documentary were released today, I would think they had simply skimmed a couple of wiki pages without ever reading anything.
The interview clip reminded me of the "Rowley Birkin Q.C." sketches in the British comedy series The Fast Show. They all feature Rowley excitedly telling what seems to be a very interesting personal anecdote, but his speech is so garbled that you can understand maybe 20% of what he's saying.
One of the coolest things in Tolkien is Legolas and Gimli bonding over the caves at Helm's Deep.
They didn't bond over the Glittering Caves at Helms Deep. Legolas promised he would visit them after the war was over provided Gimli went with Legolas into Fangorn forest.
Legolas never saw the Gilltering caves until after Sauron was defeated.
Gilmli amd Legolas started becoming close friends and bonding while they were in Lorien resting.
In the books the Fellowship stayed quite some time I'm Lorien, several weeks i think it was.
The problem with looking back at works like TLOTR and John Carter and The Lensmen and judging them today is they do look very stereotypical and can seem shallow. But the only reason people can think that is because of all the things that followed those works and copied them because those works CREATED the stereotypes and archetypes that all those other works built their characters on.
exactly
I think you got it backwards. The characters are carefully crafted archetypes based on historical and mythological truths; characters are brothers, leaders, young lads, wise scholars, shield-maidens, princesses, queens, fathers and sons, uncles and nieces etc., all these roles that we see in human societies. And they explore the complexities of people in those roles, how they might not like their role (Eowyn), how they might be pressured into a role by an authority figure and the corruptive power of that pressure (Boromir), the bravery and heroism of a hardened soldier contrasted with a heart of gold and silver and glittering crystal (Gimli).
This does not diminish their quality in any way. It is an artistic choice, sometimes less is more, it is the style of the epic story.
I don't see how adding more detail to the personality, thoughts and struggles of Samwise would better the story, there is plenty enough on the page.
Even with things like the elves…. Legolas is a stereotypical D&D elf…. Because D&D elves are based heavily on LOTR…..
One of the best Tolkien documentaries I have seen is on the multi-DVD boxed set of THE FELLOWSHIP OF THE RING. Extremely well done. Most of the docs on that set are about the making of the movie, but the first one is all about Tolkien, his life, and his work.
those extra materials are amazing, for the last few years I've been watching them more than the movies themselves and I just wish there was more. The passion for the project, the creativity and the love of Tolkien's work was palpable at every step, I just love seeing that.
Clean shaven Aragorn just hits so differently.
She may be a part-time hobbit, but she radiates the beauty of a Noldorian princess.
I was puzzled by the commentator who asserted that the Rohirrim were “generically” Germanic. I had always taken the Riders of Rohan to be explicitly Anglo-Saxon. To me they are Tolkien’s re-imagining of his beloved Anglo-Saxon culture, one which wasn’t extinguished by the Danish and Norman invasions, but which repulsed Cnut, triumphed at Senlac and continued to thrive for centuries more. Thanks Jess for another thoughtful piece, and watching these documentaries so that we don’t have to.
You're right about the later incursions of Dane/Normans; however, you've overlooked the origins of the tribes of Angles and Saxons that started arriving in the fifth century A.D., from parts of northern Germany such as Lower Saxony and the Schleswig-Holstein region. You might start with the story of Horsa and Hengist.
Yes, I agree. I interpreted the Rohirrim (the Eorlingas) as Anglo-Saxons on horseback, who would have given Harold Hardrada and William the Conqueror a much harder time than Harold Godwinson's footbound housecarls were able to.
I figured the Rohirrim were the Americans. After all, Tolkien had Aragorn describe them as "They are proud and willful, but they are true-hearted, generous in both thought and deed; bold but not cruel; wise but unlearned, writing no books but singing many songs[.]" I figured that's how all Englishmen view us Yanks. 🤣
I viewed them more as Norsemen who rode horses instead of longboats across the vast sea of grass.
@@stefanlaskowski6660 There's a lot of substance to that viewpoint. The horse was important to them. Warm blood horses like the Hanoverians and Holsteiners originated in the region. Their importance can still be seen in architectural details like horse-head gables; and, the heraldry of families/governments throughout Lower Saxony and Westphalia utilize the device of the "Saxon Steed."
Please don't fade. I was introduced to LOTR as a high school student in the 1960s by a female classmate.
5:34 I feel like there aren't enough trees for Mirkwood 😂😂
Love the video Jess, you brighten my day every time you post ❤❤
Ngl, felt a certain way about your comment implying LOTR only has have rl racial stereotypes if you’re looking for it or want to look for it maybe it’s cuz that’s what a lot of folks say to dismiss/allow racial stereotyping in a lot of pop culture media, making it seem like it’s the person bringing it up creating a problem or maybe it’s when you’re the rl race that’s being stereotyped it’s hard NOT to see that stuff?
I just think we can like fantasy creators like Tolkien or any Author whose not obviously/“intentionally” racist or cud be seen as an “ally” but still acknowledge racial stereotypes they might have in their works whether it’s unintentional or the author is seen as an ally of margenalized groups. It’s something that can empower & attract more readers&fans of that material who come from rl races whose racial stereotypes are seen in that material and love the work regardless but feel like they’re crazy for seeing/thinking it or attacked when they acknowledge it. It’s something that helps out a lot of modern authors who ally with margenalized groups reanalyze their works and what they cud do better moving forward and could do the same for fans inspired by Tolkien to create their own literature, what not to do, despite having good intentions or seeing oneself as a fantasy creator and also an ally of margenalized groups.
It’s just kinda wild how some Tolkien fans have this knee jerk reaction to just blindly dismiss or not even acknowledge/entertain discussing certain criticisms and critique’s about Tolkien as if he’s a religion or something. Can we acknowledge that numerous creators have said their work doesn’t contain racist stereotypes when it clearly did and because people took the author at their word and dismissed criticizing it those portrayals were accepted into pop culture? Can we acknowledge many authors & creators, incl. fantasy, have had racial stereotypes in their work even tho it was unintentional? Then why can’t we analyze Tolkien the same way? It doesn’t make the creator a bad person but not acknowledging it doesn’t help and you can still accept a creator’s work regardless of the stereotypes if you can have a constructive dialogue around it, around what it means, and how to engage it?
I feel like that’s one of the weaknesses of the Tolkien community that could be strengthened a lot with just a simple acknowledgement and wud weaken a lot of the rl racism we see in the community.
Please don’t take this as an offense. I love your channel and have binge watched all your vids and you’re definitely one of the most open and welcoming Tolkien Scholars online and i appreciate having this platform to express my critique not just about you but the community as a whole.
9:45 he is clearly auctioning storage units.
On the matter of Tolkien's mumbling, Diana Wynne Jones brought up in her nonfiction collection Reflections that she attended some of his lectures and it was clear that he didn't actually like lecturing all that much.
I have to wonder what his circle of friends (including C.S. Lewis) thought of the way he spoke.
@tarmaque I think it is one of those things that once you get used to it you just don't hear it.
@@rnash999 Almost certainly.
@@tarmaque *Tolkien says something incoherently*
Lewis: I'll translate.
The shear poetry of Gimli, a dwarf describing the caves, yeah, not nearly enough descriptions in those books. Baruck Khazad, Khazad aimenu!
9:32 I think Tolkien said something about all the roads being destroyed and then a law library was built there. I only listened to it about five times.
What I think Tolkien said:
"Manor Road, of course, everything is destroyed - I mean Manor Road which I lived at [laughs] has now been completely destroyed and there's an enormous [ums and ahs] combined English and Law library built there."
Sorry you had to watch it, but makes me glad i've never had to.
I love the passage of Gimli describing the cave of Aglarond to Legolas, "Do you cut down groves of blossoming trees in the springtime for firewood?"
Made me a part time dwarf. 😁
Thank you, Jess of the Shire!
For the Al Gore Rhythm, no Macarena required!
I remember seeing this as a kid. My mom bought it out of the discount dvd bin at Walmart! I distinctly remember being mad at the scene where they give merry the credit for killing the witch king, even at age 10.
"Manor Road of course, everything is destroyed, i mean, Manor Road [uninteligable], hahahaha [uninteligable] really is destroyed and there's an enormous combined English and law library built there." I believe he's talking about Manor Road, Oxford
The Goths, the Vandals, the SS? That escalated quickly.
And where does he get the idea that they spoke Gothic? They quite obviously spoke English (well, Anglo-Saxon) -- as beautifully presented in the films.
9:30 omg, Tolkien was the english Boomhauer from "King of the Hill"
".... everything is destroyed....an enormous library built there.." I also heard orome
Much of the artwork hastily shown in this was done by the Brothers Hildebrandt. They did quite a number of paintings depicting characters and scenes from LOTR and The Hobbit and were the subject of several popular calendars from the 1970’s and I believe the 1980’s. I had a couple of them myself and even framed one or two images. I loved them at the time but now most of them strike me as a bit cartoonish compared to many of the more recent depictions by Alan Lee and Ted Nasmith.
When the Lord of the Rings was published in the fifties there were many literary critics who disdained the work.
Purely because they didn’t understand it
Given the quality of your work on your ‘Book Vs Movie’ character study videos on Aragorn, Arwen, Boromir, Faramir, and Frodo, I would like to suggest that you consider doing the same for Rohan’s Royalty. Theoden and Eowyn had strong character arcs which were important parts of the story in both book and movie versions. We get a rather less of Eomer’s inner life, perhaps because Eomer was, for Professor Tolkien, an example of a well-born young man who wholly embraced the duty and responsibilities implied and imposed by his birth.
Tolkien got it easy, he only had to finish his studies. Beren had to get a Silmaril.
I understood that reference!
lol. And Aragorn had to become recognized as king of not one but TWO nations!
@@skylark7921There is the difference in the age difference to consider as well, 3 years as opposed to 2700 years, so of course Aragorn has to work harder. At least Ronald didn't have to marry Edith's ugly sister first.
Speaking of music inspired by Tolkien, (would love to see a dive on that topic!) my favorite from the pre-Jackson Era has to be Johan de Meij's Symphony #1. Absolutely cinematic!
I’m reading LOTR for the first time ever at 30. I never did like the movies that much, but the books are so far a beautiful journey that I did not expect. A lot of the lore is going over my head because I’m more of a story and plot kind of person, and have not been a huge fan of fantasy before this, but it’s only adding to this sense of Middle Earth being a bigger world than just the Fellowship. I don’t know how to adequately describe what this book is making me feel, but I really love it!
In response to the Tolkien mutterings I think we should just smile and nod. Loosely translated he says "I don't like to do interviews".
And enjoy the sound of his voice and the twinkle in the eye
Well done; love your style and thanks! 22:30 "Yeah, if only Tolkien would have given us a little more detail." I'm still Laughing MAO!!
you also put his map 4 minutes in, cute idea!
Let's pretend I did that on purpose!
My friends who dislike LOTR almost uniformly complain about the surfeit of description, e.g. "I don't need to know what kind of trees were in every freaking scene they walked into." (No doubt remembering and overgeneralizing "Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit.")
It's a valid point. Tolkien over-describes to the point where his description becomes meaningless, as shown in the example quoted in the video. Interestingly, it's actually a tactic used by Lovecraft intentionally, but Tolkien really lacked the psychological insight into the effect of his writing on the audience- he naively thought his reader would enjoy and understand his rambling prose.
@@joadams8022 TBF he did say he was writing for himself.
I mean maybe readers were tbf, some weren’t because they just wanted the story then and there
@@NeroSparda99 True. Not everybook is for every reader. Which is okay. This book has sold more copies than just about any book, so clearly more than a few people like it.
I really love the way you present the topic - so natural, nonchallant, yet getting into details sooo often + you have this (for me hard to resist :D ) ADD vibe, speaking really fast, seemingly wandering off from the script but somehow still on point... :D i dunno, it just feels like home. :)
Bring it on, I'm excited to see more of your production, Jess!
Cheers
ps: "It's so easy not to try" t-shirt shall not be forgotten! :D
this still remains a must-have and if u ever start some merch, please, don't leave this one out! :)
I'm glad you enjoy my presentation style! And trust me, if I ever do make merch, that's the first thing going on it.
"Manor Road of course everything is destroyed I mean Manor Road in which I lived is now greedily destroyed and there's now an enormous combined English and Law library built there" (more or less).
It's a code ha ha, only we English can understand it. Weird sample though, he said far more interesting things in interviews. See Tolkien in Oxford (1968), a brilliant documentary which is on UA-cam. Very Pythonesque!
I believe Tolkien said he drove his DeLorean to the combination law library. Or some such.
I just love your so, so, very subtle sarcasm. Your thumbnail with the quote "Women Don't Read the Lord of the Rings" got my ire up. When I was an 8-year-old boy, my older sisters introduced me to Tolkien. This was in the '70s, and I have known at least as many women who are fans of LotR as men.
It's kind of why I appreciate Jess's channel. Lord of the Rings is a man's story, written by a man with almost all male characters.
So how do women connect and identify with it? The same reason I enjoy Kill Bill, Alien etc
That guy that you show around 17:44 is in many shows now adays, he’s interviewed as a military historical expert and he, more recently than the documentary your talking about, has transitioned to a woman. She’s been on shows like underground marvels, mystery of the abandoned and some hitler/ holocaust documentaries/ series that I’ve seen.
You remind me of some of the best instructors I had while studying literature in college. You keep me riveted, taking in your insights and expressions.
I'll chime in as another girl who read LOTR in the 70s and became a lifelong fan. Both my male and female friends all read it, too. I wouldn't say that everyone loved it equally, but when I knew people who, for example, bounced off the writing style, I can think of both male and female friends who did so. So to my mind, you can't make a sweeping judgement about who the readers were, or who tended to like it more and why. I do notice that the fellow who says his female students haven't read it is younger than I am. And that makes me wonder. I will say, in an anecdotal and sweeping way, that I felt that more of a gender divide in media consumption started to arise within the 80s and the 90s, including affecting young teens and preteens. This isn't to say that, when I was a kid, there weren't girls who gravitated towards very feminine works, and looks, and so on. Or that girls who didn't, didn't get labelled "tom-boys" (although, either I don't remember that being a particularly stinging label; or else I was just oblivious to how negatively others might have meant it). But it also matches up with things I noticed, and have also read articles talking about, regarding trends in gender-essentialism increase in, for example, toys for children. Toy marketing in the 70s was a lot more gender-neutral (boys and girls would be depicted playing equally with LEGOs, for example), and at that time you didn't have big toy stores in which there was such a strict gender segregation of the aisles. Anyway, that's a slight digression, but I guess what I'm wondering is whether that overall shift in marketing towards younger girls vs. younger boys, as the 80s went on into the 90s, affected what books were being recommended to tween girls. And whether there was a drop-off, either in people recommending LOTR to girls, or to girls wanting to be seeing reading it. (Which isn't to say that NO girls would have been reading it in that time period; of course there were. It's only a question of whether there were fewer reading it during that time period, or a general perception of LOTR forming to suggest that it, like D&D, was "for boys".) I think, though, that to answer this question (if it's answerable!), you'd have to do a lot of research, and even interviews, to start to figure out whether this hypothesis is correct. So I'm not putting that much weight into this one guy's own anecdotal sense that none of his female students (circa the late 90s I guess) hadn't read it. (The first question I would have for him would be: do you know this because you ask all of them directly? Or because you mention it and they don't engage with you? Or... for some other reason?)
So here's some background on the LOTR trio painting (It *is* supposed to be Arwen, in case you were wondering but didn't want to go out on a limb). It's the cover to Inquest Gamer, a spinoff of Wizard Magazine. Wizard was a comic book price guide, which eventually began to include things like news, interviews, etc. One of its hallmarks was original covers by popular artists. Around this time, we started to see popular comic books like Spider-Man and X-Men adapted into movies, and because their covers were made by artists, and the nature of print vs internet still meant some gaps in lead time, a popular thing to do was photorealistic art depicting actors, usually wearing costumes they would not wear in the movie. Inquest, was, I believe focused on Magic the Gathering type card games and maybe RPGs? So they tried that technique with Lord of the Rings, using longtime Tolkien artists the Hildebrandt brothers (Who were never great at likenesses, tbh) to depict the stars, probably right after they've been announced. As to why the brothers, depict Liv Tyler's Arwen holding a flaming sword? Well, Inquest tended to have the biggest identity crisis, compared to its sisters Wizard and Toyfare. Oh! yes, Toyfare was actually very significant, as a fumetti comic strip "Twisted Toyfare Theater" effectively went on to become Robot Chicken. (To give you an idea into the minds of the guys who made these magazines)
Tolkien reminded me of the old cop in Hot Fuzz!
I love love love Tolkien's writing, but seriously, I always thought that his interviews and ESPECIALLY his narrations of "epic" scenes were pretty bad... Mumbler and and unnecessarily quick speaker in the most epic moments
Tolkien said, "Manaro ending is destroyed, I mean, Malaro is destroyed, hahah, not really destroyed. There's an enormous combining ancient law library built there."
Not even close.
@@citolero The comment is meant to be ironic because that's what it sounds like he's saying. I know itnot what he actually said, whatever that was.
I could not make out what he said, but I was waiting for him to conclude with the words "I'm afraid I was really, really drunk".
@@profile1674 😂I knew it reminded me of something!
Re: women reading Lord of the Rings. I first heard of the books in a book report from a 5th grade girl in 1963. I didn't actually find a copy until eight years later.
My class read The Hobbit in 7th grade. I didn't know there were sequels until more than a year later, when my dad tossed them to me the next summer when I complained I had nothing to read. Thanks, dad!
"Now the road to good living is to troy (mispoke, chuckles at his mistake, continues on a different subject), there's an enormous combining of law library built now."
I like your description of the differences between "archetype" and "stereotype"
To me, a stereotype reduces a complex reality into an (often inaccurate) caricature, whereas an archetype is a direct expression of a simple concept. One diminishes, the other builds-up
Regarding the interviewee talking about racism: I think it's interesting that he doesn't think it's possible to be racist without representing "any particular people". I think anyone honestly engaging with the idea of prejudice would agree that he's talking absolute nonsense. We've all known people who are racist, homophobic, transphobic, etc. without even knowing enough about the group they supposedly hate to be able to define them that precisely
The number of transphobic people who apparently don’t even know what pronouns are and yet complain about using preferred pronouns…..
Part-Time Hobbit was already amazing, then she brought us this video. Just keeps getting better.
During Covid, my company asked if anyone wanted to give a teleconference presentation for social engagement. The first few people that presented gave technical presentations. I got a chance and gave a presentation on Tolkien’s life. I hope I did better than this documentary!
I’m very confident that you did !👍👍
In my first reading of the trilogy (5th grade), I loved the fact that it was Merry's blade that first pierced the Nazgul. Yes, Eowyn delivered the death blow; however, there were two people involved in defeating him. Both of which fulfilled the prophecy. Like fate had a direct hand in leading both to the point in time where either could kill the Witch-King if the other failed. That recognizable hand of divine providence is as awesome today as it was in 1978.
Huh, it's kind of like Tolkien was a devote RC who had studied ancient myths and legends. Nahh, that couldn't be the case.
I think that there is no doubt that Merry and Eowyn together killed the Witchking. And we know that they both struck him (it).
I don’t think it’s clear whether the blow that Eowyn struck was actually needed - she only had an ordinary sword whereas Merry’s blade was a “Witch-King-Slayer”.
However I admit I’m being pedantic! It’s like arguing about whether Hillary or Tenzing was the first to climb Everest
"Man, a road called living is destroyed and Mala Roman's is" *laughs* "I mean mal destroyed an enormous" *deep breath* "a eh I uh combining a lore library down."
I have seen that documentary and I admire your dedication to this channel for making it all the way through it.
I had never heard of the Lord of the Rings. I did watch the Hobbit cartoon during the 70s, it came on national TV, and I enjoyed it. Then the main page of Yahoo had a video add for the movie that auto played, I thought it was a joke. But I went and saw the movie with my sister, and I was hooked. That became an annual ritual, I flew done to Texas for Christmas, and went to see the movies with my sister.
I had an elderly female teacher in high school teach a class on "Knights and Heroes" where she delved in everything from Beowulf and King Arthur, to Superhero comics (which she owned a lot ofーwe even took a field trip to see an X-Men movie in theaters!), to anime/manga (she was less familiar with comtemporary stuff at the time, but she loved Nagai Go, Tezuka Osamu, and other pioneers of the genreーshe even introduced me, an anime officianado, to a lot of important series). Not only was this the best literature class I ever took, but it also solidified my love for fantasy and created a deeper understanding of literature in me than I ever had before. Especially as a woman, I feel a lot of the reason girls don't get into a lot of heroic tales or adventure stories isn't just because they're somehow too "masculine", but because we don't have as many female role models to introduce us to these kinds of things earlier. As a recent adult fan of LotR, thank you for all that you do here on this channel.
Also, my teacher had a sock puppet of the principle she would use to mock him whenever he came over the intercom. She wasn't just into cool things. She was just a cool person. A cranky old lady who exemplified the "age is just a number" saying perfectly. XD
best I could get from 9:32 was:
"(Man or roadicle?) everything is destroyed! I mean, (????) lived haha! That being completely destroyed, and there's an enormous... eh uh eh, combined English and law library built there."
Love your videos! This is what I heard in that Toilken interview:
" * unknown * everything is destroyed, I mean * unknown * * laughing * is completely destroyed is an enormous combining ancient lore and library built there"
"Sumpthin, I mean everything gets destroyed. The Sumthin was destroyed and it was an enormous combination lore library built there." ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I so enjoy these every week. Thanks!! Also more singing! You have a lovely voice.
Regarding LotR and women readers:
My 73 year old dad says that in high school it was the girls that kept suggesting he should read it. The girls were the ones gushing about it. So much so, that I think it made him think of it as aimed at girls.
At a bookreading, I asked Ursula LeGuin about her Earthsea books. She referenced TOLKIEN as publishers were then willing to print long stories as multivolume sets. This was in 1980. Also in 1965 (?) I was turned onto LOTR by Anne Marie with cornflower waiste length hair. Then the guys in my shop class cut my Ace edition in half on a bandsaw. I wonder if Dungeons and Dragons would have existed without LOTR. Or most early computer games. (CLI, not GUI or multi user.)
He said,
Man, the rhotical living is driving man the Romans having really destroyed an enormous combining ace the law library built there.
The literary critics both sound like a college student with an impressive vocabulary who hasn’t done his homework but read the summary
If you use enough big words they won’t realize you don’t know what you’re talking about….. except we did
@Jess_of_the_shire I can understand what Prof Tolkien said. Play it back and read this: "Manor Road, of course everything is destroyed, I mean Manor Road which I lived ...haha... has now been completely destroyed and there's an enormous [deep breath] combined English and Law library built there."
That scene is not in the books, the one with arwen and frodo and Gandalf. It was commissioned by a comics collecting magazine in the year before the movie came out. It's supposed to be speculation on the characters looks based just on the cast and literally NOTHING else.
Like they had no idea what the art department or makeup had planned or what the costumes looked like. I think, but don't quote me on it, they got one of the brothers Hildebrandt to paint it
Ooh great info! Thanks for sharing
Aragorn does not need to find time to shave!
Tolkien himself was quite clear that Numenorean noblemen with elven blood (from Elros Tar-Minyatur or, in the case of The Princes of Dol Amroth, from the Silvan elf maiden Mithrellas) are incapable of growing any facial hair. Neither Aragorn, Denethor, Boromir, Faramir, nor Imrahil ever grew a single whisker.
Some elves (most notably Cirdan the Shipwright) did have beards, but generally not until their "Third Cycle of Life." Mathan (the copper-haired father-in-law of Feanor) is the only elf known to have a beard as early as the second cycle of life.
I'd guess that in theory a mortal man even with strong elven genetic would grow a beard if he lived for thousands of years, but unless we count Ring Wraiths the longest any such man has ever lived is the 500-year lifespan of Elros.
I tend towards this being one of the things that Bakshi got right, although Aragorn's costume is way too Conan the Barbarian for me. Then again, Boromir was way too Viking for me. I always saw Argorn and Faramir as basically Robin Hood, and Boromir as Little John. But as you mentioned, clean shaven, or not needing to shave. Bakshi made Aragorn almost Native North American in features, which I find interesting considering the time frame. This was about the time that Ursula LeGuin's _Earthsea_ trilogy was popular, and Bakshi's Aragorn looks a lot how I pictured Ged/Sparrowhawk. LeGuin has spoken at length about how the denizens of Earthsea were mostly of darker skin, and that the inhabitants of Gont resembled Pacific Northwest tribes. I have to wonder if Bakshi was influenced by that.
I also think it's interesting that LeGuin is basically the originator of the idea of a "Wizard School" which J.K. Rowling essentially cribbed. Which is not to say that she stole much else from LeGuin, but Rowling stole from all sorts of sources. Hence: "Research." The only other thing close to a Wizard School that predates _A Wizard of Earthsea_ is the Witche's School in Andre (Alice) Norton's _Witch World_ novels, which predate Earthsea by a couple of years. However it is not particularly well fleshed out. On the other hand, LeGuin's Wizard School resembles a LOT of other boarding schools throughout fiction, from military academies to girl's schools like that in _The Prime of Miss Jean Brodie._
@@tarmaque I do give Bakshi a lot of slack for his adaptation, considering how vastly different his own life and environment were to Tolkien's. As much as the character designs and imagery are heavily coloured by American art and pop-culture, and very removed from their English roots, he didn't presume to "fix" the story or butcher its themes to fit his own worldview, as every other proposed LOTR film-script did until then.
That said, his depiction of Samwise is still hard to stomach. Sam in the Rankin-Bass Return of the King is way better.
I don't think a single mention in a private letter is making it "quite clear." A person could be forgiven in assuming the Dunedain of the Third Age would not have strong elven genes. We're talking twenty or so generations removed from Earendil and Elwing's union by the time of the fall of Numenor, then about another thirty generations from the founding of Gondor to the War of the Ring. Aragorn lived just a hair over 200 years, which was pretty good, but nothing like Elros. The elven blood was barely hanging on in his lineage.
"And the road I go everything is destroyed I mean they know each other but *laughs* and I mean being destroyed is enormous, uh, combining some more library but um" 🤷
9:50 is he… talking about Rome conquering somewhere and destroying it and then a library gets built there??
9:30 the UA-cam closed captions think Tolkien said:
'Mana road because everything is destroyed I mean completely destroyed as an enormous uh combined English and Law Library built cannot down'
I think he is saying:
'Man, on their own everything is destroyed, I mean, men on their own completely destroyed an enormous combining English Law Library built there'
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
We can't forget "Ramble On" by Led Zeppelin.
I could understand calling Aragorn or Gandalf something of an archetype, even if they do have nuances. I could not understand calling Frodo, Sam, Merry, or Pippin anything but complex, three-dimensional characters. I suggest they read "The Stairs of Cirith Ungol". They can't have read very carefully if they think there is not much description in The Lord of the Rings either-or anything besides pages and pages of it that bores
Also, did I mishear or did they say Tolkien was placed in the care of his aunt?
The point about the Rohirrim actually reminds me of a constant annoyance to all Narnia fans as well with certain rather harsh interpretation of the Calormenes, usually with the added assumption that The Chronicles of Narnia is a crude allegory, when technically speaking it is not. I assume the point is that Orcs have scimitars or something, but I don't think that means that Tolkien was saying was that all people who use scimitars are of the same moral worth as orcs because that would be ridiculous.
I tried slowing down the video and I still don't know what he's saying-something about the nature of mankind and technology, maybe? Or possibly a "lore library".
Something about a law library? Something was enormous
In the Tolkien interview segment, I heard, "Something, something *chuckle* destroyed a law or lore library...."
My wife and I bonded over our shared love of the Silmarillion.
17:38 this guy gives off ancient aliens vibes.
"Manor Road, of course, everything is destroyed. I mean, Manor Road, which I lived at, heh-ha, has now been completely destroyed and there is an enormous, eh [yawn] eh, ah, eh, combining English law library built there."
I think the illustration with the random woman is evidence that it's publishers, not fans, who presume the biggest audience is male. If you go to fantasy section in a bookstore, there's always sexualized females on book covers because, apparently, the folks selling the books think we can't enjoy a book unless there's sex in it. Which everyone here knows isn't true. I think even Peter Jackson is guilty of that. Arwen, obviously, and also Rose Cotton. Rosey isn't mentioned until the last stretch of RotK, when Sam almost despairs and thinks of home, but in the movie she's in the very first act and gets turned into a busty barmaid.
To be fair, outside of the big name authors, the best-selling novels are mostly erotic novels. But then those have a predominantly female audience.
“ ______ living is destroyed-i mean-ha ha-_____ is never really destroyed and there’s enormous-and there’s a law library built there”
My attempt lol
When that guy said not a lot of description my jaw dropped.
He says "Manor road of course everything is destroyed, I mean manor road on which I lived ha ha has been completely destroyed and there's an enormous uhhh uh combined English and law library built there"
Holy crap I'm pretty sure that in my sophomore year of highschool, my English teacher showed part of this documentary when we were reading the Hobbit for the class. I don't remember the summary part, the teacher probably stopped it by then, but I strongly recall the random fantasy art & music, the low detail CGI map of Middle Earth, and the footage of Tolkien
The notion that somehow LotR was a literary underdog in 2001 is just ludicrous. It had been hailed by many literary analysts and professors as the greatest work of English fiction since freaking Chaucer, and there were already credited university classes in "Tolkien & Lewis" at many major universities.
As for any "literary" person who doesn't know the difference between archetype and stereotype, they are just idiots. "Move along -- nothing to see here..."
As for seeing orcs (or, more to the point, "uruks") as an ethnic slur of the enemies of free western indo-european civilizations, there is some grounds to that, but it is about a 5000 year old slur. There was an Uruk culture east of the ancient pre-norse before they migrated to Scandinavia, but it has been gone since, oh, the early days of the pharoahs. No one today would be identified with that tribe/culture, certainly not the Goths (who were originally swedish, as in from Gotland) or the Franks (who were keltic-germanic).
Tolkien was mythologizing a much earlier setting, the sort of proto-indo-european times just after the ice age, when you could still walk from France to Britain, and Doggerland was still above water. He literally made fun of people who thought his works could be interpreted as part of the post-roman or modern era (you know, like nazi-lovers trying to claim LotR the way they ignorantly try to claim a lot of stuff.)
I think your points are succinct, intelligently considered, and externally low key, but highly impactful in terms of what one might use as "roasting" or even "burning".
Deservedly so. ;)
Another great video! Thanks for the content!
Sounds like Tolkien is talking about the time Rome destroyed a library?
I heard "a lore library was built there" at the end
The Wii music montage slaps
Not sure what Tolkien was saying, but I think it was something about living in a van down by the river.
Oh wow they actually used Lynette Nusbacher the quite well known military historian / strategist from Sandhurst?
I can't believe Moon Knight is responsible for a crappy LOTR documentary. And I used to think he was cool.