For me there was no Wilderness Years. I was a kid of UK Gold so by the time I was seeing all the classics at last....I also devoured EVERY Virgin New Adventure and Past Doctor, every 8DA once the BBC started their books with The Eight Doctors. Every VHS. Soon after...Big Finish started and I've got over 1200 stories from them. The BBC Books overlapped by 3 months to Nu Who so....what wilderness? Living in the UK I got to meet all the stars at conventions - before a lot of these things cost a fortune. People paying hundreds for a photo and autograph with Jodie or Tennant? Tom was £15 all in! My teen self got flirted with by Katy Manning. I got to meet every (then) living Doctor and most companions and major guest stars.... I LOVED "The Wilderness Years".
It's interesting to see how the presentation of the orphan episodes reflects how the technology and market behind home video evolved over the years; they started out 'hiding' orphan episodes in standalone documentaries and have now gotten to the point where they're putting out full-length animations and telesnap reconstructions. 1:26:17 Fans are still having this argument amongst themselves, just with episode being animated rather than found. 1:33:03 So in a way the UK and American sets swapped packaging for that release!
It's clear they didn't really know what to do with them fully in the early 1990s. I think ultimately they made the right choice because context was so important at that time. Now, it feels like there is a lot more now that supports how people know about them and honestly, they kind of take a backseat to the animation releases.
Loving the video Greg 👌 I'm completely fascinated by the Randolph tapes. The idea of this unknown person becoming a kind of celebrity nearly 60 years after these recordings were made and yet he remains a mystery. Do we even know who dropped the tapes off at the refuse site ?
We do not know who dropped it off but what is interesting is that it is clear that this was not the whole collection. How much was recorded over time is unknown. Also, every episode starts exactly at the first beat of the title music. None start late nor were any continuity from the opening makes it's way in. So, does that mean these were actually dubs that maybe they recorded off air and then dubbed to a "master" tape? More questions than answers.
Telesnaps are the reason I started reading (and collecting) DWM. Saw a Classic Comics in the newsagent with, appropriately enough, Ice Warriors telesnaps, and snapped it up. Devoured them, then got to the bit where it was announced that they continued in DWM. So that suddenly became a must-buy too.
Another excellent presentation Greg, always well worth the wait! The interview with Marcus Hearn was really good. I still have my VHS copy of The Ice Warriors, remember buying & watching it for the first time 👍
Glad to hear Bruce Robinson get a name-check at around 41:20. I often find he ends up being the forgotten partner in JV. You mention earlier the muddy quality of dupes of the "crystal clear" audios. This is why his COI reconstructions (which he started out using Microsoft PowerPoint, clicking his way through the slideshow while outputting it and a cassette of the audio to a VCR, manually syncing as he went!) started out with hard subtitles for all the dialogue: his copies of the audios were so far down the line you couldn't make out half the dialogue. How far we've come since the technical limitations of 1996!
Still got my Ice Warriors box set! (Aussie release, mind you, with different packaging and all on one tape.) One of the handful I've held on to. Always felt the packaging was a LOT nicer on the Aussie release for this one. An extra-thick hard-shell plastic case, big enough to hold the tape, CD (at a squeeze!) and book. Cover art is the same as the outer slip on the UK box. Simple, sturdy, elegant. I love it to bits. Like you, Greg, the serial itself less so, but what a release! BTW, Damian Shanahan has talked himself up a bit with finding the censor clips, as if he managed it solo. Without the massive input of Ellen Parry (complete with doctoral thesis topic and university letterhead), he'd never have gained access to them. (I still remember hearing the news break. I was editing the Brisbane local group's newsletter, got a call from another member and hovered over the kitchen phone until I had enough facts - including Parry's contribution - to write a front page article. I suspect my source heard it from Parry herself, as she was also a Brisbane local.)
Interestingly that clip of they used to illustrate the First Doctor at in that trailer at 0:45 is a clip from the unaired Pilot, which wasn't available on home release until 2006. Susan's different outfit tipped me off. Maybe it was done by accident, someone editing the trailer mixed up the footage with the reshot episode as aired? Edit: Aha, it turns out I was slightly ignorant, a version of the Pilot was released alongside Edge of Destruction as you show later in the video. The TARDIS Wiki was missing that detail at the top of its page :P
That is not quite accurate either. By that point, the Pilot had been released on the Hartnell Years in 1990. This release and that trailer was 1998 and The Edge of Destruction with the remastered Pilot was from 2001.
Ha, that's why you're the expert! I only ever had four classic Who VHS tapes when I first became a fan in 2005, so it's been fascinating learning more about this era.@@FromTheArchive1
any idea whats next? another Hartnell could be neat. i vote for The Reign Of Terror, if i recall wasnt that one of, if not the last story released on VHS? could make for an interesting episode
Gosh, I remember Blackstar. I used to order all my videos of "The Avengers" (Patrick Macnee and Honor Blackman etc) from them. No way to easily buy a "complete collection" in those days, with about 3 episodes per tape. Some arrived damaged, some even in the wrong box! I had a look at my spreadsheet, as it felt like just a few years ago, and it was in 2003.... about the same time or just before I started getting Loose Cannon recons on VHSs (send off a blank) from dubbers.
Blackstar was revolutionary for me. Getting the Doctor Who videos were great but getting some of the other stuff that never seen light of day over here such as Survivors, Quatermass and the Pit, Doomwatch, etc albeit just a couple of episodes felt like I was diving into another world!
@@FromTheArchive1 Yes to be fair they quickly replaced the damaged tapes, which wouldn't have been obvious without playing them anyway. And they sold stuff cheaper (no sales tax being "overseas" from mainland UK) and were the only source available for me for many of these older or rarer tapes.
@@frankshailes3205 I used their "finder service" to track down The Deadly Assassin as I couldn't find it anywhere! I really started collecting these after the great purge in 1996 so some titles were nearly impossible at the time.
Hey Greg, you asked for corrections, so I'll offer 2: Firstly, the Marco Polo telesnaps are from Warris Hussein, not Christopher Barry. I assume you knew who directed Marco Polo and just misspoke. Secondly, the 8mm clips are from Australia, not New Zealand. Which makes sense, as Australia did a lot of repeats, and we know repeats are where the clips come from. I'm with you, not a fan of this story. I don't think the 2 missing episodes would be enough to save it. Honestly Season 5 for me doesn't get good until Enemy. I listened to this while on a walk, with an icy cold breeze, so it put me in a nice Ice Warriors mood. Hearing the story of the telesnaps was great. Sounds like the archive was very strict in those days!
Thanks for the corrections. Seeing you were walking and listening, I did put a caption on screen that it was Waris Hussein that directed it as I realized my mistake in edit. I hate when I make those fundamental mistakes.
@@FromTheArchive1 Ah yes, I did miss that. I usually listen to these videos since it's mostly just you talking, so I figured I wouldn't miss much. I added this comment on returning home.
I thought the NZ/Aus censor clips story was a bit more complicated. Didn't the clips turn up in a NZ archive even though they'd been made from Australian copies?
@@frankshailes3205No. The Australian censor clips were found c October 1996 by fan researchers in Australia but they were in an Australian government collection rather than ABC Australia. Much later a number of censor clips were found in a private NZ collection from The Web of Fear but these were obviously made redundant by the discovery of the complete episodes by Phil Morris a few years later.
@@FromTheArchive1 Ah, Yes.. I watched a bit further on and I saw the place card at the end. I wanted to ask, as it sounds like it could be from Who of that era. Definitely creates atmosphere. Great stuff! I'll be checking them out!
I first saw the Ice Warriors when I won the copy given away at the MN Dr Who Viewing Society at the Southdale Library. Thanks Greg
For me there was no Wilderness Years. I was a kid of UK Gold so by the time I was seeing all the classics at last....I also devoured EVERY Virgin New Adventure and Past Doctor, every 8DA once the BBC started their books with The Eight Doctors. Every VHS. Soon after...Big Finish started and I've got over 1200 stories from them. The BBC Books overlapped by 3 months to Nu Who so....what wilderness? Living in the UK I got to meet all the stars at conventions - before a lot of these things cost a fortune. People paying hundreds for a photo and autograph with Jodie or Tennant? Tom was £15 all in! My teen self got flirted with by Katy Manning. I got to meet every (then) living Doctor and most companions and major guest stars....
I LOVED "The Wilderness Years".
Sounds more like the "Golden Era" than "The Wilderness Years" and I concur with that too for me. Fans didn't know when they had it so good.
I love what you’re doing, Greg. Please keep them coming. 😊
That's the plan!
Another BRILLIANT ep. The effort is so appreciated!
It's interesting to see how the presentation of the orphan episodes reflects how the technology and market behind home video evolved over the years; they started out 'hiding' orphan episodes in standalone documentaries and have now gotten to the point where they're putting out full-length animations and telesnap reconstructions.
1:26:17 Fans are still having this argument amongst themselves, just with episode being animated rather than found.
1:33:03 So in a way the UK and American sets swapped packaging for that release!
It's clear they didn't really know what to do with them fully in the early 1990s. I think ultimately they made the right choice because context was so important at that time. Now, it feels like there is a lot more now that supports how people know about them and honestly, they kind of take a backseat to the animation releases.
Loving the video Greg 👌 I'm completely fascinated by the Randolph tapes. The idea of this unknown person becoming a kind of celebrity nearly 60 years after these recordings were made and yet he remains a mystery. Do we even know who dropped the tapes off at the refuse site ?
We do not know who dropped it off but what is interesting is that it is clear that this was not the whole collection. How much was recorded over time is unknown. Also, every episode starts exactly at the first beat of the title music. None start late nor were any continuity from the opening makes it's way in. So, does that mean these were actually dubs that maybe they recorded off air and then dubbed to a "master" tape? More questions than answers.
Naming the 35th anniversary as one of your favourites, love that! 💙💙➕📚
Telesnaps are the reason I started reading (and collecting) DWM. Saw a Classic Comics in the newsagent with, appropriately enough, Ice Warriors telesnaps, and snapped it up. Devoured them, then got to the bit where it was announced that they continued in DWM. So that suddenly became a must-buy too.
Brilliant as usual Greg.
Thank you very much!
Another excellent presentation Greg, always well worth the wait! The interview with Marcus Hearn was really good.
I still have my VHS copy of The Ice Warriors, remember buying & watching it for the first time 👍
It was a magical time for sure.
Glad to hear Bruce Robinson get a name-check at around 41:20. I often find he ends up being the forgotten partner in JV. You mention earlier the muddy quality of dupes of the "crystal clear" audios. This is why his COI reconstructions (which he started out using Microsoft PowerPoint, clicking his way through the slideshow while outputting it and a cassette of the audio to a VCR, manually syncing as he went!) started out with hard subtitles for all the dialogue: his copies of the audios were so far down the line you couldn't make out half the dialogue.
How far we've come since the technical limitations of 1996!
I liked this vid before I’ve even watched it that’s what I think of you and your content
Excellent video as is often with you Greg!
Thank you very much!
Still got my Ice Warriors box set! (Aussie release, mind you, with different packaging and all on one tape.) One of the handful I've held on to. Always felt the packaging was a LOT nicer on the Aussie release for this one. An extra-thick hard-shell plastic case, big enough to hold the tape, CD (at a squeeze!) and book. Cover art is the same as the outer slip on the UK box. Simple, sturdy, elegant. I love it to bits. Like you, Greg, the serial itself less so, but what a release!
BTW, Damian Shanahan has talked himself up a bit with finding the censor clips, as if he managed it solo. Without the massive input of Ellen Parry (complete with doctoral thesis topic and university letterhead), he'd never have gained access to them. (I still remember hearing the news break. I was editing the Brisbane local group's newsletter, got a call from another member and hovered over the kitchen phone until I had enough facts - including Parry's contribution - to write a front page article. I suspect my source heard it from Parry herself, as she was also a Brisbane local.)
Yes! Love your videos.
Thank you!
Superb, as always!
Thank you very much!
Another fantastic video Greg.
Thank you very much!
The Restoration Team forum! Ian Levine once accused me of being an anagram on there!
Blackstar! My one-stop shop in the late 90s. Weren't they called Yalplay at one point too?
Interestingly that clip of they used to illustrate the First Doctor at in that trailer at 0:45 is a clip from the unaired Pilot, which wasn't available on home release until 2006. Susan's different outfit tipped me off. Maybe it was done by accident, someone editing the trailer mixed up the footage with the reshot episode as aired?
Edit: Aha, it turns out I was slightly ignorant, a version of the Pilot was released alongside Edge of Destruction as you show later in the video. The TARDIS Wiki was missing that detail at the top of its page :P
That is not quite accurate either. By that point, the Pilot had been released on the Hartnell Years in 1990. This release and that trailer was 1998 and The Edge of Destruction with the remastered Pilot was from 2001.
Ha, that's why you're the expert! I only ever had four classic Who VHS tapes when I first became a fan in 2005, so it's been fascinating learning more about this era.@@FromTheArchive1
@@darkspine1037 I thank you for you watching the videos. :)
YES!!!!
any idea whats next? another Hartnell could be neat. i vote for The Reign Of Terror, if i recall wasnt that one of, if not the last story released on VHS? could make for an interesting episode
Saw it @ the NFT in 1988
Did they show it pretty quickly after they discovered it?
@@FromTheArchive1 The NFT had a DW weekend in November '88. The Faceless Ones 3 was also shown
@@davidcallinicos1976 That's right, I remember hearing about that.
@@FromTheArchive1 Also shown was The Aztecs,The Chase,the Mind Robber,Terror of the Autons,The Sea Devils Planet of Evil & the Two Doctors
@@davidcallinicos1976Yes at the time it was incredible to be able to see so much at once.
Remember when the BBC was watchable.
Gosh, I remember Blackstar. I used to order all my videos of "The Avengers" (Patrick Macnee and Honor Blackman etc) from them. No way to easily buy a "complete collection" in those days, with about 3 episodes per tape. Some arrived damaged, some even in the wrong box! I had a look at my spreadsheet, as it felt like just a few years ago, and it was in 2003.... about the same time or just before I started getting Loose Cannon recons on VHSs (send off a blank) from dubbers.
Blackstar was revolutionary for me. Getting the Doctor Who videos were great but getting some of the other stuff that never seen light of day over here such as Survivors, Quatermass and the Pit, Doomwatch, etc albeit just a couple of episodes felt like I was diving into another world!
@@FromTheArchive1 Yes to be fair they quickly replaced the damaged tapes, which wouldn't have been obvious without playing them anyway. And they sold stuff cheaper (no sales tax being "overseas" from mainland UK) and were the only source available for me for many of these older or rarer tapes.
@@frankshailes3205 I used their "finder service" to track down The Deadly Assassin as I couldn't find it anywhere! I really started collecting these after the great purge in 1996 so some titles were nearly impossible at the time.
Hey Greg, you asked for corrections, so I'll offer 2:
Firstly, the Marco Polo telesnaps are from Warris Hussein, not Christopher Barry. I assume you knew who directed Marco Polo and just misspoke.
Secondly, the 8mm clips are from Australia, not New Zealand. Which makes sense, as Australia did a lot of repeats, and we know repeats are where the clips come from.
I'm with you, not a fan of this story. I don't think the 2 missing episodes would be enough to save it. Honestly Season 5 for me doesn't get good until Enemy.
I listened to this while on a walk, with an icy cold breeze, so it put me in a nice Ice Warriors mood.
Hearing the story of the telesnaps was great. Sounds like the archive was very strict in those days!
Thanks for the corrections. Seeing you were walking and listening, I did put a caption on screen that it was Waris Hussein that directed it as I realized my mistake in edit. I hate when I make those fundamental mistakes.
@@FromTheArchive1 Ah yes, I did miss that. I usually listen to these videos since it's mostly just you talking, so I figured I wouldn't miss much. I added this comment on returning home.
@@MuchWhittering No problem. It doesn't change the fact it was wrong on my end! LOL
I thought the NZ/Aus censor clips story was a bit more complicated. Didn't the clips turn up in a NZ archive even though they'd been made from Australian copies?
@@frankshailes3205No. The Australian censor clips were found c October 1996 by fan researchers in Australia but they were in an Australian government collection rather than ABC Australia. Much later a number of censor clips were found in a private NZ collection from The Web of Fear but these were obviously made redundant by the discovery of the complete episodes by Phil Morris a few years later.
When you are showing the tele-snaps at 43:00, is the music used from the Ice Warriors?
Hi there! The music is composed by Nick Seidler and Rob Warnock called (The Word is) Zero. They gave permission for Robert to use on his video.
@@FromTheArchive1 Ah, Yes.. I watched a bit further on and I saw the place card at the end. I wanted to ask, as it sounds like it could be from Who of that era. Definitely creates atmosphere. Great stuff! I'll be checking them out!
@@ScaryGarrySG1 They did a great job! Thank you for watching!
Thanks for the video. How can I see the Til Death episode 'Monopoly'?
It's not available anywhere to view to my knowledge.
Arr...the old BBC Worldwideeeeeeee trailer
But who raided the BBC archive to nick a copy of ice warriors? 😂