Yeah a real back & time saver. Suction based running off an air compressor I assume? Wonder how smooth the top surface of the paver needs to be & how heavy can lift?
I'm so glad you made this video. Thanks for the great info. I've been really curious about the Gator Base for a little while now. I have to admit when I first saw it, I totally dismissed it as a gimmick. If CJA is confident with it, that's good enough for me and I'll try it on my next paver project.
Next job I’m uploading, this is one of thousands online that are over engineered clusters. This guy must charge $50 a square for all the labor, materials, equipment, ridiculous!!! I’m a one man show that would do this in three days and when I’m done your can drive a car over it. Very simple... rent sod cutter, form up boards, and lay concrete base, glue down outer edge of pavers, sweep in sand of choice, done...so much better without all this labor and materials.
This way is expensive and wrong...been doing pavers over 25 years on concrete base have worked on parking lot jobs that semi trucks drive on and residential where sprinklers over water yards, so soil is always wet and mushy nothing beats concrete, and can build steps without worrying of sinking.
I have used this type install for paved walkways even on a grade, and a heavier brick patio where my riding mower and trailer go over. Works wonderfully.
I dont mean to be off topic but does any of you know a way to get back into an Instagram account?? I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Zyaire Remington thanks so much for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out now. Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
Impressed with speed of getting things done, investment in proper tools and machines pays off in saved man hours. No issues with just compacting the soil and adding the 3/4 clean blue to slope water away?
Great video hope to see more have a new hardscape startup nice to see the gator stuff being used. That limestone is tough to find willl continue to search
It only cost a few bucks to dump dirt. This could be a good product but I just don’t see the savings other then time to install. But other then that what about winter weather and water settling under pavers?
Great video, actually my main reference for my upcoming DIY installation. One question though, I see you didn't put a membrane between your compacted soil and 0-3/4 that you put down to fix the grade. What about the risk of this 0-3/4 mixing with the soil and sag over time?
Not seeing it. You excavated the area compacted then your 3/8 plus or minus. Then the gator replaces sand. Where are the savings? Sill labor laying the Gator and sand is cheap.
Lmao. I was saying the same thing. They saved on a few inches of dig out and aggregate . Say literally $1000 worth of material and labor but are spending the same if not more on that "foam" 🤷♂️ I run a hardscape installation company and am shaking my head on the proposed usage and installation process... i would like to add this to a proper foundation for the larger stones the industry is pushing for the ease of installation with open grain aggregate getting on the surface during installation and scratching the surface of the pavers
Without a doubt. you're the guy for the job. Both your experience and knowledge are very apparent. As a side-note what would a project like this typically cost the homeowner ?
I like the video but at 14:55 for about 15-20 seconds I couldn’t hear what to were saying over the music. And again around 15:40 you faded out. Seems to be a good product though.
The Alliance Gator people specify compaction of the bedding sand (by hand tamping) but in videos from professional installers they don't compact the sand. Can anyone explain?
Would you recommend this on a slope backyard that drops a foot at 15ft away? Also, it rains alot in Seattle and I'm afraid the whole thing might slowly slide off due to the paver's weight.
Thank you for the video. How do you like using #9 limestone instead of sand for the base under the Gator? I understand that you don't compact the limestone and just level it with pipes? Would that base also be good for a climate with harsh winters and lots of thaw/free cycles?
We want to use this system BUT we can't find the 3/16" spacers anywhere!!! We already have the porcelain pavers and can get the other supplies from different places online. We need at least 100 of the spacers. Anyone??
Everything comes down to drainage and how quick you can move the surface water before it gets underneath the pavers/patio and you end up with bed migration and the patio sinks or the pavers move anyways? The point of pavers is that should they move they are pulled and re-set unlike concrete slabs that crack! At 4" or 6" slabs of concrtet can NOT be fixed and must be hammered and redone again! EXPENSIVE! The product is useful if only to delay the migration of the soil but it is an added cost with limited use because if the pavers move you then now have to pull these pads to fix the pavers? Lock your borders with cement and use efficient drainage. Can you say DRAINAGE. Did I forget to mention DRAINAGE! It is a lot of work to dig and install DRAINAGE!!!!! Good video though and proper use of the product. However, most landscapers and contractors will use cement and DRAINAGE for the more wealthier customers.
The square long handled suction tool the gal was using to place pavers. What's it called and where can you purchase that tool. What is the tools capacity. How does it work ?
couple questions 1. On the edging screws...are they being screwed through the black matting ? 2. Are you still running the tamper across the pavers to lock them in place ?
That’s a bad price. Needs to be around 2.25 sf to make since for the offsetting of cost and labor and material. Otherwise at that rate you might as well go traditional base
Why do UA-camrs insist on playing raging music over everything even to the point at one stage it’s impossible to hear the speech above the damn music. I have one interest in watching videos like this and that is to learn about products and techniques and not to have my ears blown out. If I wanted music I would be going to UA-cam music or Spotify or whatever. Please don’t detract from the main content by imposing this noise on viewers
Why don't we ever get some numbers on the price per square foot of this process? Even a general idea that I can adjust taking into local costs for labour, material, etc would be useful. This still looks like a hell of a lot of steps, all of them expensive, not to mention the cost of rentals for a DIY guy like myself. When I laid my last patio I used high performance bedding. It involved the removal of about a foot of soil, tamping of the base with a hand tamper and water. Then the 12 inches of HPB, followed by hand tamping with more water, and a bit of grading, followed by the paving stone and some binding sand in the cracks, That was 15 years ago and with the exception of occasionally refreshing the binding said, the patio still looks amazing and drains perfectly. I can't believe it wasn't more economical then this, not to mention the absence of more plastics (with the exception of the paver edging), leaching whatever into the soil.
He doesn't give prices because every job is bid differently. Plus it's none of your business what he makes. As far as giving numbers for you to go off of there's way to many variables from job to job. The soil type, ease of access, complex pattern with a lot of cuts, is it easy digging or a ton of rocks? YOU need to find out what YOU need to be to charging for jobs like this.
Your comment makes no sense. A foot of soil vs 2-3 inches. No more steps than a paver patio. Not sure what you would need to rent special to install this.
@@jasonwebb5964 I view these you tube videos as instructional seminars. I use them as an opportunity to evaluate ways of accomplishing the same task and to determine wether or not it's a materialI can consider with my limited budget. I did mention I understood there would be variables. @@jasonwebb5964 There is a starting price for every service, every product. When a new product or process is introduced that has significant advantages over the existing standard, Id like to know the starting price. (Although this is neither here nor there, I've seen paver installations of this scale done with traditional methods, that haven't budged in 30 years, maybe more. These jobs were also completed without more plastic being introduced to our environment. Even if this product is made from recycled plastic, it has become a black plastic product, which is not recyclable in many municipalities. ) I simply wanted to know the starting price was for that product. This was not the vid of a craftsperson, generously sharing his knowledge.This was a well edited, product pitch, and I believe it can be held to a different standard. There is also the benefit of saving me a call and saves him, or someone like him, a trip to my place for a quote, if I decide the cost outweighs any proposed advantages.
You'll need to rent a front loader, and a bin for this job or one that uses HPB.. On a small project the cost of digging deeper would be negligible. Maybe you missed the multiple 4 by 4 bags of aggregate and top treatment shown at the beginning of the video. The application of one layer of each of these, followed by the necessary use of a tamping machine were edited out of the video, although the presenter did mention these two steps need to be included. They do use less base aggregate with this product but you still have those tasks to complete. I'm not sure I understand how this product is a game changer other than the removal of 2 inches of soil as opposed to 12. In my neck of the woods, the cost of using high performance bedding, worked out to be 40% less than the quotes I was given for a traditional installation. This gator product involves the same number of steps that a traditional installation requires. They use less base aggregate but you do need to rent a thumper, which you don't when you use HPB. which saves the cost of that and the labour costs associated the tamping of two layers. Depending on what the dumping fees for clean fill are in you area and maybe the rental of another bin, this product makes the installation cheaper but those dumping and bin fees would have to be really high. I appreciate your reply. I wanted to answer it with accurate information so I dragged out the paper I had related to my installation and crunched the numbers I could. No one is answering at the dumps or equipment rentals in my area. To be fair, I used the soil I removed for the HPB to create a few raised flower beds but there are any number of projects in my area looking for clean fill, so you might realize a savings there as well. I hope your family and yourself are in the best of health and spirits.
I’m not buying it lol I’ve seen pavers over this stuff and the nice level patio does not last very long. Still a cheap gimmick to me, nothing beats the old fashioned way of doing it
2:07 Looks like your putting down a crushed gravel base, NOT just compacting the soil. Is the whole point of Gator Base that you don't need a base like this? Seems like you guys could have not used the Gator Base.
They used limestone to grade away from the house. Otherwise they wouldn’t need to use it. These pads only require 3-4 inch excavation, fabric, sand, paver pads, and pavers.
I agree, looks like an expensive and not very useful step. It is one of those inventions that will not survive long. The video was a product pitch. Pavers have been installed for thousands of years without using that thing and some roads from roman times are still in use in some places.
Why make it look so good the whole way ,then just cut corners with the hay around? Any reason in particular especially around that fire pit just calls for a lawsuit or disaster.....
I understand the sentiment about fire but fire is simply not a realistic issue. also its not hay, it is wheat straw. We don't install sod for free and sod was out of the budget for the client .
horrible workers, how many damn breaks do you all need for something that takes a few hours>? owner and his wife doing absolultely nothing besides walking around and staring at shit. "great progress" ...right. maybe if yall werent just standing around and actually helped out your workers.
Great video! You are a natural speaker and so much knowledge! Thanks so much!
Thank you!
I used Lowe's version of those styrofoam base last year and it made doing the project 100x better and easier plus it save a little money
I never knew there was something to pick the paver with out bending down 👍 you learn something new every day
You bet!
Yeah a real back & time saver. Suction based running off an air compressor I assume? Wonder how smooth the top surface of the paver needs to be & how heavy can lift?
I'm so glad you made this video. Thanks for the great info. I've been really curious about the Gator Base for a little while now. I have to admit when I first saw it, I totally dismissed it as a gimmick. If CJA is confident with it, that's good enough for me and I'll try it on my next paver project.
Dude...this is the best overall video on paver install I have ever seen; sadly, I have watched many many videos of them. :)
Next job I’m uploading, this is one of thousands online that are over engineered clusters. This guy must charge $50 a square for all the labor, materials, equipment, ridiculous!!! I’m a one man show that would do this in three days and when I’m done your can drive a car over it. Very simple... rent sod cutter, form up boards, and lay concrete base, glue down outer edge of pavers, sweep in sand of choice, done...so much better without all this labor and materials.
Excellent info for those of us dipping our toes into the hardscape arena 👍🏻
This way is expensive and wrong...been doing pavers over 25 years on concrete base have worked on parking lot jobs that semi trucks drive on and residential where sprinklers over water yards, so soil is always wet and mushy nothing beats concrete, and can build steps without worrying of sinking.
Thank you for the video. This house has the lower ground than the neighbors' houses.
I have used this type install for paved walkways even on a grade, and a heavier brick patio where my riding mower and trailer go over. Works wonderfully.
I dont mean to be off topic but does any of you know a way to get back into an Instagram account??
I was dumb forgot the password. I appreciate any tips you can offer me
@Alfonso Baker Instablaster :)
@Zyaire Remington thanks so much for your reply. I found the site thru google and Im trying it out now.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Zyaire Remington It did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy:D
Thanks so much you saved my ass!
@Alfonso Baker happy to help :D
Very educational, well explained & illustrated. Thanks!
Sound level of the music was overpowering compared to the talking portions.
Really nice, saw you on Spencer’s lawn care great work
Awesome, thank you!
Impressed with speed of getting things done, investment in proper tools and machines pays off in saved man hours.
No issues with just compacting the soil and adding the 3/4 clean blue to slope water away?
Great video hope to see more have a new hardscape startup nice to see the gator stuff being used. That limestone is tough to find willl continue to search
BEAUTIFUL ❤️ THANK YOU FOR SHARING
You are so welcome
I like this gator base patio looks nice 👍
It only cost a few bucks to dump dirt. This could be a good product but I just don’t see the savings other then time to install. But other then that what about winter weather and water settling under pavers?
That's really good work there guys.
This gentleman has a great command of the English language.
well that's flattering hahaha
Great video, actually my main reference for my upcoming DIY installation. One question though, I see you didn't put a membrane between your compacted soil and 0-3/4 that you put down to fix the grade. What about the risk of this 0-3/4 mixing with the soil and sag over time?
Nice job 👍 I didn’t see you guys compacting the leveling sand before putting the Gator base
Nobody did, it wasn’t in the video! Lol
Great work.
Thanks!
Not seeing it. You excavated the area compacted then your 3/8 plus or minus. Then the gator replaces sand. Where are the savings? Sill labor laying the Gator and sand is cheap.
I was thinking the same thing. Plus the Gator Base is way overpriced.
Lmao. I was saying the same thing. They saved on a few inches of dig out and aggregate . Say literally $1000 worth of material and labor but are spending the same if not more on that "foam" 🤷♂️ I run a hardscape installation company and am shaking my head on the proposed usage and installation process... i would like to add this to a proper foundation for the larger stones the industry is pushing for the ease of installation with open grain aggregate getting on the surface during installation and scratching the surface of the pavers
The gator replaces 6" of crushed stone, not the sand. Sand goes under the gator base.
I am confused I thought the gator paver pad replaced the rock and not the sand and that’s where you saved because the rock costs so much.
Without a doubt. you're the guy for the job. Both your experience and knowledge are very apparent. As a side-note what would a project like this typically cost the homeowner ?
I believe this project was around $8k, but I can't fully remember.
@@Aumanlandscape seems reasonable to me
I like the video but at 14:55 for about 15-20 seconds I couldn’t hear what to were saying over the music. And again around 15:40 you faded out. Seems to be a good product though.
The Alliance Gator people specify compaction of the bedding sand (by hand tamping) but in videos from professional installers they don't compact the sand. Can anyone explain?
We do not compact the sand. We only use 1” of that. And now days at that we use number 9 limestone instead of
@@Aumanlandscape Number 9 limestone is about 1/4" right? And it's clean stone, no fines?
I love it. Just want to know how many inches you have to dig? Do you just remove the grass and then compact the ground? Please I want to know
Would you recommend this on a slope backyard that drops a foot at 15ft away? Also, it rains alot in Seattle and I'm afraid the whole thing might slowly slide off due to the paver's weight.
Thank you for the video. How do you like using #9 limestone instead of sand for the base under the Gator? I understand that you don't compact the limestone and just level it with pipes? Would that base also be good for a climate with harsh winters and lots of thaw/free cycles?
We want to use this system BUT we can't find the 3/16" spacers anywhere!!! We already have the porcelain pavers and can get the other supplies from different places online. We need at least 100 of the spacers. Anyone??
Who designed the garbage pit under the bay? Asinine, that where all the leaves and toys will go. Really not thought out.
This patio was installed to create a demonstration video. There was no budget to do anything more than this.
What is the name of the hand tool used to smooth out the gravel please?
a come along rake/ concrete rake / concrete lute or a quick screed those ?
Loving the instrumental
Any chance you could share what your cost estimate was for the project?
150k
What would this project cost ?
I'm wondering where you got the vacuum paver mover? Great video BTW.
probst tools
If you still need the setting bed, why use the product: seems like your just adding a layer/cost
Everything comes down to drainage and how quick you can move the surface water before it gets underneath the pavers/patio and you end up with bed migration and the patio sinks or the pavers move anyways? The point of pavers is that should they move they are pulled and re-set unlike concrete slabs that crack! At 4" or 6" slabs of concrtet can NOT be fixed and must be hammered and redone again! EXPENSIVE! The product is useful if only to delay the migration of the soil but it is an added cost with limited use because if the pavers move you then now have to pull these pads to fix the pavers? Lock your borders with cement and use efficient drainage. Can you say DRAINAGE. Did I forget to mention DRAINAGE! It is a lot of work to dig and install DRAINAGE!!!!! Good video though and proper use of the product. However, most landscapers and contractors will use cement and DRAINAGE for the more wealthier customers.
The product replaces the 6" of crushed stone, and the excavation/soil disposal that comes with the added depth.
The square long handled suction tool the gal was using to place pavers. What's it called and where can you purchase that tool. What is the tools capacity. How does it work ?
It’s vacuum off of an air compressor using the venturi principle. Available at PROBST
What did you guys paint on the house?
good project. no more music please. its doesnt add to the video.
couple questions 1. On the edging screws...are they being screwed through the black matting ? 2. Are you still running the tamper across the pavers to lock them in place ?
Yes and Yes
I thought you weren't supposed to use gravel or base with these panels.
Just check out the product specs and listen to my explanation in the video!
@@Aumanlandscape ok
Can we use all purpose sand instead of #9
Great video, but I recommend a remote lapel mic for audio. It'll be way easier to control background noise, and your voice will be way clearer.
Ok thanks! We actually do have one on in this video. The machines are just so loud!
What's the estimate on that project?
👌
can i use it for a driveway to park cars.
No. 👎 not for that !
Are the fans there for laying the brick or for cooling the workers
Cooling workers. It was 90+ degrees during this install.
What is that suction thing for the pavers, who makes it?
Pavemore made that suction tool. We bought it from Dan at Boarhog.
How much do the project costs?
I priced gator base for a 400sf job and it would cost $1400. !!! Is there really $1400 in these recycled plastic matts?
That’s a bad price. Needs to be around 2.25 sf to make since for the offsetting of cost and labor and material. Otherwise at that rate you might as well go traditional base
@@Aumanlandscape are you saying I should be able to get it at 2.25/sf? Thx!
By the time you do all of this you could just pour a concrete pad and lay the pavers on top. Probably save yourself a bunch of money as well
Concrete isn't flexible. Doesn't hold up to frost heave like this stuff will.
@@draingepros I live in Florida
@@frankgenner782 Then it might work great in Florida.
did you compact the #9 or just screed?
screed only.
What kind of settlement, if any, do you get with your 1" setting bed @ gator base, after compaction?
Probably somewhere between an 1/8"-1/4". But we haven't had anything to really test it against
Why do UA-camrs insist on playing raging music over everything even to the point at one stage it’s impossible to hear the speech above the damn music.
I have one interest in watching videos like this and that is to learn about products and techniques and not to have my ears blown out.
If I wanted music I would be going to UA-cam music or Spotify or whatever. Please don’t detract from the main content by imposing this noise on viewers
Please stop complaining. These guys make how to videos for us who wants to learn. We have a choice to mute or watch something else.
Cost
what are the pavers? they look great!
Beacon Hill Paver by Unilock
@@Aumanlandscape ty!
What’s the name of that paver-lifting tool?!
pave mor
That’s cool as heck.
They should have made a wooden deck !
Parts Labor and materials rental that's a $6,500 to 7,500 dollar job tops if it's done Professionally
So that would mean there's at least about a 50% profit margin in there?
where is the music from ???
youtube stock
Why don't we ever get some numbers on the price per square foot of this process? Even a general idea that I can adjust taking into local costs for labour, material, etc would be useful. This still looks like a hell of a lot of steps, all of them expensive, not to mention the cost of rentals for a DIY guy like myself. When I laid my last patio I used high performance bedding. It involved the removal of about a foot of soil, tamping of the base with a hand tamper and water. Then the 12 inches of HPB, followed by hand tamping with more water, and a bit of grading, followed by the paving stone and some binding sand in the cracks,
That was 15 years ago and with the exception of occasionally refreshing the binding said, the patio still looks amazing and drains perfectly. I can't believe it wasn't more economical then this, not to mention the absence of more plastics (with the exception of the paver edging), leaching whatever into the soil.
100% agree
He doesn't give prices because every job is bid differently. Plus it's none of your business what he makes. As far as giving numbers for you to go off of there's way to many variables from job to job. The soil type, ease of access, complex pattern with a lot of cuts, is it easy digging or a ton of rocks? YOU need to find out what YOU need to be to charging for jobs like this.
Your comment makes no sense. A foot of soil vs 2-3 inches. No more steps than a paver patio. Not sure what you would need to rent special to install this.
@@jasonwebb5964 I view these you tube videos as instructional seminars. I use them as an opportunity to evaluate ways of accomplishing the same task and to determine wether or not it's a materialI can consider with my limited budget. I did mention I understood there would be variables.
@@jasonwebb5964 There is a starting price for every service, every product. When a new product or process is introduced that has significant advantages over the existing standard, Id like to know the starting price. (Although this is neither here nor there, I've seen paver installations of this scale done with traditional methods, that haven't budged in 30 years, maybe more. These jobs were also completed without more plastic being introduced to our environment. Even if this product is made from recycled plastic, it has become a black plastic product, which is not recyclable in many municipalities. )
I simply wanted to know the starting price was for that product. This was not the vid of a craftsperson, generously sharing his knowledge.This was a well edited, product pitch, and I believe it can be held to a different standard. There is also the benefit of saving me a call and saves him, or someone like him, a trip to my place for a quote, if I decide the cost outweighs any proposed advantages.
You'll need to rent a front loader, and a bin for this job or one that uses HPB.. On a small project the cost of digging deeper would be negligible. Maybe you missed the multiple 4 by 4 bags of aggregate and top treatment shown at the beginning of the video. The application of one layer of each of these, followed by the necessary use of a tamping machine were edited out of the video, although the presenter did mention these two steps need to be included. They do use less base aggregate with this product but you still have those tasks to complete. I'm not sure I understand how this product is a game changer other than the removal of 2 inches of soil as opposed to 12. In my neck of the woods, the cost of using high performance bedding, worked out to be 40% less than the quotes I was given for a traditional installation. This gator product involves the same number of steps that a traditional installation requires. They use less base aggregate but you do need to rent a thumper, which you don't when you use HPB. which saves the cost of that and the labour costs associated the tamping of two layers.
Depending on what the dumping fees for clean fill are in you area and maybe the rental of another bin, this product makes the installation cheaper but those dumping and bin fees would have to be really high.
I appreciate your reply. I wanted to answer it with accurate information so I dragged out the paper I had related to my installation and crunched the numbers I could. No one is answering at the dumps or equipment rentals in my area. To be fair, I used the soil I removed for the HPB to create a few raised flower beds but there are any number of projects in my area looking for clean fill, so you might realize a savings there as well.
I hope your family and yourself are in the best of health and spirits.
and the cost of all this 20 k holy shett
Not cheap!
Those gator boards are extremely expensive you on getting 10 for $300.00.
Prices will vary across the country. They are expensive but in the appropriate situation it can save you a lot of money on labor!
Just another layer
I really hope you dont use that stuff in a zone that freezes, it will look like crap in a few years if you have a heavy frost
We have multiple freeze thaw cycles in a season. We are confident in this product and install
I dont have a problem with that"
1" aggregate under pit walls? Must not have a winter there! Love the fans.......what?
I’m not buying it lol I’ve seen pavers over this stuff and the nice level patio does not last very long. Still a cheap gimmick to me, nothing beats the old fashioned way of doing it
We’ve put in thousands of square feet of geosynthetic base with no issues I would recommend you try it! Be open minded.
poor audio
Hack job and a big trip has at the steps
God Bless
2:07 Looks like your putting down a crushed gravel base, NOT just compacting the soil. Is the whole point of Gator Base that you don't need a base like this? Seems like you guys could have not used the Gator Base.
They used limestone to grade away from the house. Otherwise they wouldn’t need to use it. These pads only require 3-4 inch excavation, fabric, sand, paver pads, and pavers.
that was only done to achieve positive grade in one location
@@LDSKIPPER1911 why bring in stone there was plenty of dirt which you love building on?🤯
I agree, looks like an expensive and not very useful step. It is one of those inventions that will not survive long. The video was a product pitch. Pavers have been installed for thousands of years without using that thing and some roads from roman times are still in use in some places.
@@Teporame 👍
Why make it look so good the whole way ,then just cut corners with the hay around? Any reason in particular especially around that fire pit just calls for a lawsuit or disaster.....
We built a patio that met the clients budget. This is economical and functional for the client.
I understand the sentiment about fire but fire is simply not a realistic issue. also its not hay, it is wheat straw. We don't install sod for free and sod was out of the budget for the client .
Ahh gotcha well it came out amazing all in all, they should've just purchased a bag of seeds and layed them out but hands down great work
L
Awful.
horrible workers, how many damn breaks do you all need for something that takes a few hours>? owner and his wife doing absolultely nothing besides walking around and staring at shit. "great progress" ...right. maybe if yall werent just standing around and actually helped out your workers.
God Bless
Ignore clowns like this one, its a damn gamer criticizing a professional. Good job
I’d work you plenty hard don’t worry...Chavez