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Why is the Honkai Series so Confusing?! - Translation and Terminology Issues Explained
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- Опубліковано 17 сер 2023
- Have you ever wondered how all the HoYoverse games like Genshin Impact, Honkai: Star Rail, and Honkai Impact 3rd are connected? Why do we have variants of the same character in different games? Or why do so many of the games share identical concepts? Well, if you said "yes", then this video series is for you. Welcome to 'Exploring the Honkai Universe', a five-part video series meant to explore different facets of the Honkai Universe, trying to explain how all the HoYoverse games are connected on a Cosmological level.
This is the first video in the series and it will address the various issues with the translation of the games and the inconsistent use of terminology. These issues make it almost impossible to obtain solid evidence to connect the games, unless… we use the CN text instead of the English one. With that in mind, this video uses the CN text and terminology to point out connections between the game and explain why the EN translation has so many errors that may provide a misleading image when trying to tackle the Cosmology of the Honkai series.
As the series progresses, more videos explaining the Honkai Universe and its structure will come out. I want to note that this video series is a long-time project that I will be working on in the following months, together with other video projects that are relevant to the current lore of the game.
I also want to thank the entire Hoyostans community for their help with this series, especially when it came to digging up information about GGZ! Hoyostans is a community of dedicated HoYoverse fans, who offer in-depth coverage of their games, with a ton of guides and fun trivia. They have the most complete story guide for Honkai Impact 3rd and are constantly adding new information. So, go check them out!
ㅇ Hoyostans website: hoyostans.be/
ㅇ Hoyodex Wiki: hoyodex.mirahe...
ㅇ Operation Gekkou: mister-spacema...
ㅇ Hoyostans Twitter: / honkaicat
ㅇ Hoyostans Discord: / discord
Please Enjoy!
ㅇ SUBSCRIBE for more Honkai content: / @homulabs
ㅇ Support me by becoming a MEMBER: / homulabs
ㅇ You can DONATE at streamelements...
ㅇ Follow me on Twitter: / homulabs
Sources:
ㅇ Exploring the Honkai Universe: hoyostans.be/e...
ㅇ Hoyodex - Terminology of the Honkai Universe: hoyodex.mirahe...
ㅇ Star Rail - Lore FAQ Doc: docs.google.co...
ㅇ Mihoyo's CEO confirming Genshin is in the Honkai Universe (KerubielZ) : • Mihoyo's CEO confirmin...
ㅇ Genshin Wiki - Rex Incognito: genshin-impact...
Music:
Cinematic Documentary Violin by Infraction No Copyright Music Innerbloom: • Cinematic Documentary ...
You might also be interested in:
ㅇ What is FINALITY? - A Comprehensive Guide to Understanding the HONKAI • What is FINALITY? - A ...
ㅇ A Beginner's Guide to Honkai Star Rail's Lore • A Beginner's Guide to ...
ㅇ A Look Into Himeko's Character through the Honkai Series • A Look Into Himeko's C...
Honkai External Materials:
ㅇ Durandal Visual Novel zklm.github.io...
ㅇ Alien Space Manga manga.honkaiim...
#honkaiimpact3rd #honkaistarrail #genshinimpact #hoyoverse #gungirlsz
This video literally took the soul of out me, but in the end, it was worth it. I am very happy that I was finally able to bring this series out. More parts will come soon. Part 2 will talk about the history of the Honkai Universe: from its inception back in the GGZ days, until the current form that we've seen recently in HSR.
Thank you!
SUBSCRIBE to support the content!
Will you be making something about captaiverse?
Yes I will. I don't known when yet.
I already did dingyue to you.
@@HomuLabs I think after making a video about the latest chapter would be a good idea
Gosh darn you, the only Chinese word you didn’t butcher is Dingyue (Subscribe )
"Unrealiable narrator" technique really good by concept,
because we actually see character could be wrong, use theory to explain things, and adding realism to the character.
But yeah sometimes is confusing AF
tbh, it's just excuse device so they can retcon things again and again, Honkai Impact 3 and GGZ has been retconned multiple times
I am a Chinese viewer, thanks for the video!
I want to point out that the confusion around the galaxy/universe/world stemmed from the Chinese language itself and the culture. There are still A LOT of Chinese people who mix them up today (using those words in general, even without talking about the game). It is probably NOT the translator's fault because I believe A LOT of Chinese people still can't distinguish the meaning of those words in Chinese.
the cosmos’ terms are difficult and confusing for everyone who don’t get too much into it, i used to mess them up in my language, too
I just assumed they thought the Galaxy was the Universe and vise versa
As a Chinese viewer,
no way waifus with chinese names
所以，应该是一个世界里有多宇宙一个宇宙里有很多星系…吧…？
@@siyuren7723no. Universe is the big one. Many galaxies live in a universe and multiple world in one galaxy
Soo technically Welt can Go home but choose not to because he will get killed by Tesla..
He says that the Express doesn't have Earth on it's records, so we can assume that there is no star rail connecting Earth to the rest of the Universe yet. Because of this, he must find another way home since the Express cannot get there. He also said that he asked Herta to send a message to his family on Earth to let then know that he is alright.
Woah where did it say he asked Herta to send a message? Was it a data bank entry? @@HomuLabs
@@HomuLabs imagine Kiana being the Aeon Terminus (Theory) and the Astral Express crew except Welt was shock to meet at Actual Aeon in Human Form. I would love to see there reactions..
@@tidehunterzamora9315 I think it's more likely that she's an emanator, since finality has existed long before Kiana.
@Aasokeo It's in one of his dialogue lines on the Express. I don't remember exactly right now when, but I'll look into it when I have a bit of time and come back with an edit.
That Planet dialogue got me confused lol, Vita said she come from Mars and then when Susannah said Venus, Vita just agreed
Yeah, that's a mistranslation. She is from Venus, nor Mars.
I agree. I'm from Spain and I was like"Huh?! Maybe I have to take more English classes..?"
Here is the generally accepted explanation in the CN community, star rail is by far the largest scale when it comes to the Hoyo multiverse, which can be simply put as the whole Imaginary tree, so no multiple trees. The whole Multiverse thing is a mistranslation and a misuse of worlds.
世界(world) is generally just a planet or a star system or a gigantic space vessel. These are the leaves on the TREE.
宇宙(universe) is the whole of imaginary tree, the whole of known existence of the material dimension.
星系(galaxy) is a star rail exclusive for rhetorical purposes due to its space Sci-fi theme, it’s almost interchangeable with 世界(world)
Between worlds or galaxies are a barrier consisted of Imaginary energy, the only known way to travel consistently between the barriers is the star rail made by Akilivi the Trailblaze. (The space ship that brings Welt on to the star rail is another, but that seems like a one time use thing)
So that’s why we got 2 Bronyas in star rail, they are from different galaxies or if you want to say different worlds.
I thought all of _HSR_ is a single bubble universe (leaf) on the Imaginary Tree (which is also why we _wouldn't_ have a crossover between it and the other games, unless others came through with similar methods to what brought Welt and Void Archives). Remember: each bubble world (universe) is a leaf on the Imaginary Tree. Bronie, Magical Girl Sirin, Kongming, Rosemary, and Delta all come from their own bubble worlds that were in the process of dissolving into the Sea of Quanta, but they were also once on the Imaginary.
Actually there is another ship that can travel between world and that is the captain hyperion in honkai impact 3rd. After all he keeps travelling one world to another but there is also another ship that can also travel between world and that ship belong to one of that ninja yae organization. At least we can see that ninja yae organization clash with captain organization. Anyway i'm excited to see what will happen if star rail express meet with either both of those organization.
@@BNuts that's not really the case, HSR has a bigger scale and it mentioned traversing the imaginary space from world to world multiple time. Welt mentions the only reason he can't go back to his home world is because the star rail doesn't reach there. Herta also has a curio that is from Teyvat (wing glider)
@@BNuts You are a victim of the misstranslations. Bubble worlds are not leafs of the imaginary tree, they are parts of the Sea of Quanta which is a releated, but separate entity. It's called "bubble world" not "world" for a reason.
Imagine a tree submarged under water. The water is Sea of Quanta, the tree is Imaginary Tree, leafs are worlds, and watter bubbles are bubble worlds.
Didn't the latest chapter show Kiana holding two whole bubble universes? It had it's own galaxies and stars and planets. And those are the ones that fell from the leaves of the tree that went into the Sea of Quanta.
Mihoyo really should get a style guide together for the different loc houses they work with so that there is consistency for all the proper nouns
That and Mihoyo should really stop using the same word for multiple conspects in CN.
@@danishsyed1068As a Chinese person, I must disagree. There are multiple meanings in English for a single word in Chinese, and vice versa. For example, we all use the word “play” to describe sports, but in Chinese they often use different words for different sports.
The unreliable narrator plays a dual role in every story, with both positive and negative aspects. On one hand, it enriches world-building, adding a sense of realism. Conversely, it causes confusion among those who fail to pay attention and accept the narrative as absolute truth.
I'm seeing people still believing that Cecilia died during the 2nd Eruption because she was weakened after childbirth. Understandably, not everyone reads the manga, or if they do, they get confused because they were first exposed to Schicksal propaganda and HoV's attempt to rage-bait Kiana in the game. Not to forget that HoV get the dates wrong (probably her time perception was screwed up by being asleep for so long). In the early chapters, you can see the unreliable narrator at its best. The manga reflects events as they occurred, while the game offers perspectives tinged by characters' ulterior motives.
Parallels can be drawn to real life, where countries mold history to align with their agendas. When conflicts exist between neighboring nations, historical accounts can be reshaped to vilify the other party. Instances exist where certain countries deny genocides and specific events, despite global awareness of such occurrences. Furthermore, mass media perpetuates sensationalism, often disseminating misinformation. Painting a distant country in a negative light via media outlets, featuring exaggerated or false allegations, serves as an effective way to garner attention from individuals seeking self-validation.
This parallels the Schicksal propaganda in the initial chapters and Theresa's chronicles. They are a powerful organization that is trying to hide many skeletons in the closet. The players will be exposed to that false information and will take it for granted because they will not research further. The same happens in Genshin with many truths being hidden from the common folk, including books that were banned by higher divine forces.
Can you put an example of an unreliable narrator in the early chapter?
They are a lot more clear in Star Rail with mentioning when they are explaining a THEORY or that it's a historical record from someones point of view. Or the character very often mention that tbh they don't know what they are talking about. Feels like a feedback from previous games.
...I thought Cecilia did die in the second eruption tho?
@@nicolaivisashi4708Like she did But she let herself die to Stay with Sirin in her last Space-Time
@@Zino_Kohiruimaki ah, okay. thought i wasn't forgetting things
People really get confused a lot because they want an instant explanation and just go with one thing that they hear from a character and don't consider anything else. This video is really great, showing many of the misconceptions and errors.
The Honkai universe is the best example of "you need to read everything if you want to get the whole picture" that I have encountered since The Elder Scrolls' lore. And while it takes so much more work to understand the lore that way, unreliable narration as applied to lore adds so much nuance and depth that a straight up encyclopedic retelling of the lore would completely miss. When one history in a TES game contradicts or straight up negates another, seperate history, that provides the reader not with a problem, but instead with an added layer of humanity, depth, and bias which deepens the reader's understanding of the culture that wrote said history, and by the same token, whenever you get a contradiction or falsehood told to you in a Honkai game, that adds a sense of depth to that character and hints to the player that what is going on is something that is almost lovecraftian in how much we don't--and *cant*--understand.
Very well put! While sometimes frustrating (especially as someone who's into the lore) I agree that the unreliable narration adds a sort of unique flair and makes the characters and the worlds feel more alive and real.
@@HomuLabs I have a question is the leaves of imaginary tree one world specifically or an entire solar system or an entire galaxy? Cause HI3 well they can travel to the other planets within the solar system but they are still within their respective leaves or am I wrong here.
There is no exact boundary. The text in HSR refers to the leaves (worlds) on the Tree as Star Clusters. That implies that they can house many Stars Systems, or galaxies. If I remember correctly, Tesla even references other galaxies as part of the main "world" of HI3 in some of the manga. So, to answer your question, a "leaf"/"branch"/"world" can at least house multiple galaxies.
@@HomuLabs Now here is my next question why tf does Nanook not create more Emanators nothing is stopping him from doing so. And from what we saw from Phanytila who outclasses JY by a large margin and Jing Yuan is one of the strongest known Emanators of the hunt which at least should account for at least the one of the top 5 strongest in lore and keep in mind JY had the help of a pseudo herrscher. Nanook's main goal is to destroy the Imaginary tree so wouldn't it be faster if he just made more than 7 emanators since the weakest of them can destroy galaxies.
@@Ilikegames804it seems you have to prove your worthiness to the Aeon to be considered an Emanator, and Nanook likely has very specific standards
You know it's a good day when theres a HOMU LABS Video. I'm curious if you'll make a Summary/Chronological Order of the Captainverse Storyline now that it's coming to a close according to the CN Livestream.
Yes, I will. I don't know when yet.
That's quite the hard series to make. I have 1100 days on the games, but I'm still positive that I've missed at least 30% of what happened there. There's just so many events that brushed just a little bit of the captain-verse without actually going in.
For example, many people insist that the very event that involved the "Captain" is some event called "Rita's Birthday Date" or something like that. I actually don't remember this event. From my perspective, the very first (at least in the chronology) event that involved the "Captain" is the Sanguine Nights event. That event that involved Luna (not Tericula), the one who's returning in the latest event.
That's only one part of a very big clusterfuck of events. There are many many more confusing events that for some reason is part of the captain-verse. Like that one time "Captain" somehow got Seele's diary while she was still stuck in the Sea of Quanta. There was also that whole event retcon of "Captain" being "split into halves" that got completely busted off the script.
So yeah, captain-verse very mind-fuckery.
Wait it's ending?
Search Sacron in Hoyolabs he already make summary in chronological order .
I’m pretty sure Tericula’s story is ending, NOT Captainverse
The tight schedule and lack of information arent really good reasons for a bad localization for multiple reasons:
1. Contrast to what most people think, localization in a company tends to be handled way before the update/product are released. So they have at least 2 to 3 months to fix and proof read whatever they are localizing.
2. Consistency also isnt a big issue unless they dont read properly or discuss with eachother beforehand. Because the localization team tends to get infos like way before the update is even announced, thats why in other languages the infos are extremely consistent, the problem seems to only lie in English as other languages like French and Vietnamese are fairly consistent with their translations and use of words, rarely making mistakes. If they ever make mistakes it will tend to be just ones where you can interprete it in 2 ways.
3. Also a lot of things tend to get lost if they dont localize properly or try to make it sound as close as the og possible. One good example is Welt explaining power in SR. The English over complicated it and made people boogle their mind while in fact its just "materialize the working principles of something into reality". Its that simple and explains a lot of things doesn't it? But the english translation over complicated by trying make it sound cool and sci-fi like the og.
The main problem with English localization isnt that its bad, its that it just sounds way too formal and fancy a lot of time but a lot of parts dont need fanciness or formality and just needs daily convo stuffs but they did it anyways to try and replicate the "ancientness" of China while a lot of times its just made for casual stuffs. Its mostly likely because they are afraid they wont be able to convey fully the meaning of the sentence due to cultural differences. Afterall the games are designed by mostly Chinese people targetting the humor and cultural sense of people belonging to East Asian Cultures. If you can read either chinese, japanese, korean or vietnamese, you will find yourself able to enjoy the dialouges in SR/Genshin a lot more because they dont need to sound fancy to convey the meanings due to cultural similarities.
One good example is Jingliu, while yes she speaks pretty formally but she can go pretty harsh and be ironic a lot of times but in English she sounds full formal. But the translation or localization isnt wrong. Its simply because outside of the 4 countries belonging to the east asian cultural spheres, the concepts and the way she talks sound just way too formal for normal dialouges because people outside the sphere simply dont talk that way. While in the sphere people when reading her dialouges will process it as ""Oh shes speaking formally but also very casually, showing the ancientness but the casualness of her personality". To them its nothing more than just casual dialouges but with a bit of ancientness in it while to people outside it will sound like they are having a spar to death like those gun battles in the wild west
“Congratulations Steve, you’re a #%^€ing Normie!” Bruh I haven’t burst out laughing like that in a minute
the mad man, he's actually doing it.
Appreciate the effort homu !
When you say the "WORLD" meant different things or can scale depending on what scale you are referring to or where you are on that moment. Like if i say "this world" where im in Earth, means im referring world as earth, but i can also refer to the universe, or galxy or star system depending on the context. Things change when you not even in a planet. Lets say, you are inside the astral express in the middle of space. When I said "this world" its pretty basic that im not referring to a planet since im in the middle of a galaxy or star system or even universe. Anyway its pretty important to also understand this factor as things are more confusing since there are characters that use world that are not in a planet or colony. The fact that their writers are not aligned on the terms used tells me that even the chinese version are not even accurate. Which tells me that they have to start getting aligned there.. the Honkaiverse is an amazing concept but due to these inconsistencies, it creates misunderstanding and also debates the same how we describe life in based on our own experience. Unless thats intentional hehehe
Yeah, that's why I said that it's important to use context clues to figure out what they mean when they use it in a certain manner.
Yeah I’m bilingual but not a native Chinese speaker, and using sometimes the same words in diff context I would definitely translate differently ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ English is somewhat too flexible and lends itself easily to hyperbolic or artistic interpretation
To everyone one in the comments please share this in every lore subreddit and lore youtuber, to clear up misconceptions in the community
Can't wait to watch this once I catch up to the story since I'm playing it now, I'll be completing chapter 17 today and was told this video will spoil me to the new arc so I will hold off for now. Keep up the great content man, your videos are a godsend.
Thanks, man! Love you reactions! Good luck with catching up to the game! It's quite a journey, especially in the latest chapters!
Yea good that somebody warned you XD
Did this video really spoil anything? Let me watch it again.
EDIT: Ok, yeah he does show two scenes very briefly and does talk about MEI's explanation of Honkai. Otherwise nothing else, but yeah its spoilers since you haven't seen it.
Chapter 17 was a good one
omg finally, i dont have to spend hours explaining to anyone how the games connect despite the different terminology they use.
The language barrier was always a problem that only got worse with the release of star rail, as a none chinese speaker i couldnt even try to understand it myself had to rely on the community to explain the issues.
(big shout out to all the translators in the community that always tried to fix this mess)
its always been easier to explain it as tree and leaves and leave the rest to a player's interpretation, but now thanks to mr homu can just link this video and save myself the work lol.
great video and amazing effort tbh, if mihoyo wont help us with the language barrier ig the fans has to take care of it, cant wait for the rest of the series mr homu
I am a native Chinese and would like to share some usage of the terms/words mentioned in the video.
World (世界) and Universe (宇宙):
First of all, these two words in Chinese share a very similar meaning, sometimes even identical, depending on the situation.
世界 (World) is combined by two characters, regarding time(世) and space(界). Similarly, for 宇宙 (Universe), the two characters are regarding space(宇) and time(宙) (yes, the order is reversed but no harm to meaning). So both of them literally mean "time and space", and extend to "everything in all time and space".
In daily speaking or abstract way, the two words sometimes can be mixed. Therefore multiverse, or parallel universe (平行宇宙), in Chinese has the same meaning as "parallel world" (平行世界). So when the Chinese word "世界" appears, it cannot simply translate to "world", but need to look at the context. That's why "bubble universe(世界泡)" is not a false translation.
But if these two words are used specifically, then the meaning will be determined as the same as the corresponding translation words in English. For example, one will say "Elon Musk is the richest man in the world (世界)", and "black holes are the most mysterious objects in the universe (宇宙)". Here world (世界) and universe (宇宙) are unlikely to be mixed.
星海 (sea of stars)
Basically 星海(sea of stars) is not a precise word, or a term, but a romantic description of space in the eye of people on earth. So a different translation with a similar meaning is acceptable. (such as "sea of ocean")
For the imaginary tree, I am not sure do I misunderstand your meaning, but to me (and the majority I think), different "leafs" exactly mean different universes (no matter in the Chinese version the characters use the word 世界or宇宙). The controversial point is whether the different "worlds" (Honkai Impact, Star Rail and Genshin) is on the same "leafs" or not. Besides that, I believe your understanding and explanation of those terms and Chinese words is almost perfect.
HomuLabs' explanation makes much more sense
Because that explains whatever is in hsr and in hi3...it also explains why Herta can easily send signals to the welt world...because basically they are just different planets/galaxies?Not until the universe is different
The absence of any feat to prove that they're universal is in itself proving that they're indeed worlds and not universes .
That's correct 💯
THANK YOU Homu for clearing this up. Some dude on Twitter said "it's worlds not universes" a few months back, and when everyone started questioning them and genuinely looking for their reason to think that, dude just started calling everyone dumbasses for not already knowing, like there wasn't a legit reason why everyone thought it was a multiverse. Thank you for actually explaining this and pointing out the translation errors.
Thank you so much for your hard work! This probably took forever to put together...
Just know that all of us lore enthusiasts truly appreciate your Herculean efforts! o7
This will probably end up being my favourite video series yet, if this first part is any indication.
(Make sure not to overwork yourself in pursuit of this masterpiece, alright? xD)
Thank you! The series will probably be done over the next couple of months. I plan to take my time with it as much as possible.
@@HomuLabs I'm glad to hear it! Take as much time as you need, we'll all be patient :D
I am so happy you made this video. this is something that has been ENDLESSLY debated in lore channels/forums and there is so much misinfo spreading around due to the numerous inconsistences (due to lore reworking like especially between the GGZ and early HI3 days compared to now) and numerous translation errors I'm so happy someone finally laid it all out for the community!
please continue making this kinda vid sir,.. hard to find good Honkai content creators this days
That was some serious attention to detail and that massive amount of effort is definitely appreciated. That was some of the best explanations for why translation can be so complicated, thank you for how much you put into this.
I will subscribe and be tuned in for more.
We have seen Vyn’s card stack in star rail but not sure if it’s them just adding as Easter egg or more to add to multiverse and not to mention Pela’s phone cover, also the time line of ToT is 2030, Star rail is shortly after 2029 (alien space manga where welt was there linking Apho and star rail around same time) and as for genshin we for most know the divalin when Otto saw him in the story
Yeah, I know. But, unlike Genshin, we don't have any statements from the devs themselves that confirm that fact, so I chose to be safe and not to include it. But, most likely, both ToT and ZZZ are also part of the Honkai Universe.
@@HomuLabs you mean... The hoyoverse???
@@HomuLabsthe fischl collab could confirm the same timeline maybe?
@@wazowskikeith2350are collabs even canon especially the Aloy one?
Usually, Terminology is the important in stories. Its the thing that must have a very clear details.
Maybe Genshin Impact, Honkai: Star Rand, and Honkai Impact 3rd have the same concept but see things differently.
What is Honkai: Star Rand? Sounds interesting 🤣
An important thing to note is that even though the hoyoverse games take place in one shared “universe” that does not mean accessing each game’s world is as simple as flying/teleporting there, as we have seen multiple times in Honkai each space usually takes a considerable amount of effort to reach, like how Otto specifically needed Sirin/Kiana’s void powers to get to the IMT to progress his plan for Kallen or how Kiana was unable to access the space that the Cocoon of Finality resided in even with her Void powers. It is not as simple as moving from location A to location B that is why Welt is unable to simply go back to Hi3 and why the characters from HSR have yet to find the worlds of Genshin or Honkai, hope you guys understand that now. Also nice vid homu 👍👍👍
Einstein might have used "universe" because she was practically talking to laymen. Usually people tend to call the 4d structure we live in "universe" instead of the entire Imaginary Tree.
Beside, it's not like "world" is any less confusing.
Belobog the planet is technically called a world, a planet-size space ship like the Luofu is a world, and the entirety of 4d space with galaxies in it can also be called world. People who are not aware of this vast range of "world" keep looking at these games and say "aha Genshin/HI3 are just different planets".
Imagine Einstein trying to explain: Yeah Earth is a world. Yeah Mars over there is a world. Yeah the sun is a microscopic part of this world, the entire galaxy is small compare to the world really. Yes Earth is tiny compare to the Sun.
Then you have bubbleworld which can be as small as building size.
Ain't no way I just watched a whole 27 minutes of video explaining the context of the words "worlds" and "universe" throughout 4 different-yet-still-somewhat-related games 😂
This video explains so much about almost a lot of stuff I don't know, you've done your homework, amazing research, this really got more interesting, now I'm more aware on the Honkai verse, sure it gets confusing but it's fun to understand what differences and similarities will bring us to the table, this video needs more views pronto!
Dont be like Steve. Join the Honkai impact crew (or other game idk)
Thins video was amazing - as always. Informative, creative and fun to watch. I don't know why but I have always assumed that the leaves of the imaginary tree are different structures/galaxies within one universe. It is very interesting to see the Chinese text saying the same thing and the English translation is wrong there.
By the way, it was nice that you put the translation mistake into the video about Vita being from Mars ("kinsei" meaning Venus) while it was mentioned she's Venusian several times before. 😅
As always you did a great job and I'm excited for the next parts of the series! Thanks for your hard work and dedication!
Thank you for this - too many people feel like what the characters say is foolproof and fully understood and far too many actually trust the EN localisation (as if Mars=Venus or Welt=Walter or Gem of Haste = Hem of Desire (happened in 25, is fixed) weren't enough, the whole universe/world thing is here too).
I'm really looking forward to the rest of the series. You're really doing god's work here, I'm happy yu got the determination!
Localizations tends to go too far from the original text itself.
Like those VNs I've read where the Japanese honorifics went none, or some jokes that I don't think I'm hearing it correctly from the audio itself.
Great video Homu! I can see you put a lot of work into it, can't wait for the next part!
Homu, this series might save me from hospitalization.
Jokes aside, I feel like I’ve been going insane with my constant obsession over the honkaiverse and how the games connect while seemingly no one else is talking about all these glaring connections, especially after Star Rail’s release and _especially_ after the Salt Snow Holy City arc, and here you are with this series to finally prove (and disprove) the points floating around in my head. Thank you very much for your hard work, I can’t wait to see what you have in store for the rest of this series!!
I can't express how grateful I am for the effort to make such banger vids thnx homu much appreciated
Congratulations Homu Labs, another great video. These types of videos are not easy to make, your effort really shows!
Brilliant video! I'm looking forward to future parts to more fully understand the Honkai Universe :)
HI3 is a emotional damage while GGZ is a mental breakdown
OH MY GOD. BUBBLE UNIVERSE IS SUPPOSED TO BE BUBBLE WORLD??? I STARTED SCREAMING AFTER YOU TELLING US THIS HOLY SHIT I SHIULD’VE USED MY CHINESE BRAIN MORE AAAAAAA THAT MAKES SO MUCH MORE SENSE.
THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR THIS VIDEO AND I CANNOT WAIT FOR THE REST OF THIS SERIES!!! I love hoyo’s games a lot but my god, with English as my 1st language and Chinese as a lousy 3rd, I’m so so confused by how their cosmology works and this series and this whole channel is truly SUCH A BLESSING and I LOVE IT!!! Thank you SO MUCH for your content!!!
So that means there could be sometime a Cross-Over between Star Rail and any other Hoyoverse games where the Astral Express visits HI3rd-Earth, GGZ-Earth or Teyvat.
Yeah. We had Asuka in HI3 though the Sea of Quanta. Anything in possible.
@@HomuLabs according to leaks mei and sakura should also get playable in star rail. Would be cool if they offically connect the storiea than. (Besides Welt and VA)
@@Jikunj They are most likely going to be Mei and Yae variants like Raiden Shogun and Yae Miko instead of the actual Mei and Yae Sakura from HI3
@@JikunjI doubt many characters are actually gonna reappear as themselves and not varients of the og since the actual returning characters have very specific circumstances. Though we do know Kiana is MIA in the apho timeline which is slowly becoming the present timeline, so as of the info we have now she actually has a solid chance of appearing as Finality.
Would be broken as shit as a unit but very interesting to think about an older Kiana debuting in StarRail before Impact 3rd.
GGZ has an anual collab with Honkai Impact. It's only one way though...
It would help a lot if Hoyo had someone who fills a similar role to what Koji Fox does for the FFXIV team. A localization lead who is directly embedded with the main writing team. Having someone lead the localization of hoyo games who is directly involved with the original chinese writing team would give them exact context to what is trying to be conveyed and could clear a lot of these issues up.
I think the hoyo localization team(s) do the best they can with what they are given, but there is only so much you can do when you are dealing with a story that is as esoteric as Hoyo stories sometimes are, and with languages that are probably more difficult to translate to and from one another than the average.
Damn, this changes everything about yhe understanding of Honkai Journey. For a long time I thought IMG Tree is a multiverse and Welt is going to another universe not just Worlds/Planets.
But then what was Otto doing to IMG Tree? He's supposed to make more timelines where Kallen lives right? If so making new worlds are not enough cause it's not really a new time line is it?
The simplest explanation about Otto and is plan is that Otto manipulated the "branches" of the Imaginary Tree that contained Earth to split at the exact moment Kallen was supposed to die and create a new timeline where she lived instead. Keep in mind that the usage of the words "branches" and "leaves" can be interchanged depending on who is talking. Otto mostly used branches in the Kolosten Arc so I mimicked his analogy. Other characters may use different terms to refer to the same term.
I've been a fan of yours for a while, and I never quite recognized the accent, but that google quick search revealed it for me... salut si respect !
Mersi! Salut si numa' bine! :D
@25:07 That line never fails to give me a chuckle. You really sound like a responsible person there, Teri.
I really like when story and lore is told from perspectives, cos gaining information is more realistic that way.
What Morax said is that there was no "So much ostentatious shapeshifting", that means, that there was not much, but modest shapeshifting, he did not deny shapeshifting, vice versa, he confirmed it, but he said that it was not as common and as ostentatious shapeshifting as it is described in the book, so it was not all a lie, but some events, that were exaggerated and added to the real ones.
Also thank you for your video, understanding of terminology is very important to make sure that everyone speaks the same language.
At last someone explain to me why in Project Stigma arc the english localization use the word "Bubble World" instead of usual Bubble universe. (at first I thought it was a mistranslation)
Homulab even explain the missunderstand of fan that believe Welt travel to different universe while the truth it was just a different world on the same universe.
Homulab explanation also making it easier for us to understand that one of many world in Sea of Quanta is actually a parallel world that also experience their own Honkai disaster.
Inconclusion, there was never a Multiverse event ever happen in any HoYoverse game. Even the highest Imaginary entity itself is just a giant grow up tree that created many Leaf (World).
PS: This also making Captain Bizarre Adventure much more relateable now. Every parallel world he visit is also experiencing their own type of Honkai disaster. It's just they use a different terminology toward Honkai like example "The Dark Lord".
Ok but how do Aeons work then? I'm assuming it will be explaneid further down the line but if it is a single universe with multiple worlds, then does that mean that theoretically the Aeons are also present in Genshin and in HI3? Because if all the HSR worlds were in a single leaf and thus in their own universe, then it would mean that the Aeons are influencing only those worlds and that universe. But since it isn't the case, and every leaf is a world, that means that Aeons could have authority or could exist even in HI3 earth, Teyvat and GGZ earth. Or maybe I misunderstood some parts of the video and I am spouting nonsense xD
Technically yes, but keep in mind that Aeons are not the only forces of that scale in the Universe. This is something that I will address in the following parts. There are also beings like the Cocoon of Finality from HI3 and the Commander of Will from GGZ that are different from Aeons but have similar "powers"/ are similar in scale. Maybe Aeons intentionally avoid worlds that have Honkai in it because they don't want to deal with it. Also, the recent HI3 chapters showed that even the Sea of Quanta can have similar beings. Aeons seem to be only a part of the Universe, part of which HSR chooses to focus on. It's the same reason why we don't really see Honkai there, because that's the focus in HI3/GGZ and the dev probably don't want to mxi them and confused the playerbase.
@@HomuLabs I also watched the video in wich you explain what Finality is and that gave me a little bit more context since you mentioned Terminus. Anyway thx for the clarification!
@@HomuLabsso is it possible that the primordial one in genshin is an aeon that will be an interesting thing to think about
@@andro5tngl the Primordial One feels more like a being from an advanced civilization that just went and terraformed the home world of Vishaps.
@@andro5t Maybe Yaoshi... 🤔
As a astronomy and cosmology student I needed this video to clear my misconceptions about hoyoverse.
I can understand why these mistakes happened because for ancient chinese people (people who basically made the language) were not sure about the structure of the universe so the galaxy was their 'universe' and our solar system was their 'world'. Now Modern science and English has these new words and the traditional Chinese had to adpat to these changes so thats where confusion happened.
I love how Genshin players will never accept they are part of the Honkai-verse.
Tbh it is part of Hoyoverse but the main issue that many Genshin fans has is that they don't want the influence of Honkai series to be put in Genshin (like Honkai, Quanta, Imaginary, Herchers, and Aeons) basically we want Genshin to be able to stand on its own without the need to rely on an existing franchise apart from expys.
Genshin player I love it and I’ve always held true to the idea but when you bring it up the hate you get is insane and the amount of copuim people in the genshin community use to say no it’s not connected is so stupid!
@@Captainicicles77 the hate happens when a Honkai fan says that Abyss=Quanta and Omni=Imaginary when it's completely different things apart from that the majority accepted the shared universe.
It's because the connexions is less in the lore of the game itself but on the existence of the universe. Other than than that, genshin stands on its own compared to other hoyoverse games. The main lore of genshin (Abyss, khaneria, Celestia) is its own thing, they don't talk about aeons, honkais, imaginarys...etc
I know spoilers are very normalized in the Hoyo community, but i still think that your explanations are 100% complete without spoiling stuff like the Otto arc ending. You can put a disclaimer, but people will watch it anyway because they are not sure yet if they are interested in the other games.
Anyways, thank you for this series. Seems like it's aimed at more dedicated fans than casuals. I hope the clarifications will trickle down to casuals slowly. I'm looking forward to future videos.
Damn finally somebody could be bothered to do this, absolutely amazing it must have been hard but this was a massive missing thing in the hoyo community, much respect bro
Thank you for making this videos. I can not say it enough how important videos like this are to me. I love HI3rd but I really need more than a little help to understand what is going on.
i totally agree with the translation issue
in french we get some 4th wall breaks like one of flammechaser mentioning a well-known chef in france, and also sometimes a big spelling mistakes, and i see in other language too (vita saying mars instead of venus, wich is correctly translated in french version)
I'm not confused.
I'm frustrated and demoralized. You play the game (especially for me with 6+ years in), you get invested into the game, you eant to know and understand more about it, you get shafted by almost no fault of anybody, because your understanding of things is built on the proverbial equivalent of Chinese "tofu structures". It's like a black pill: give up trying to figure things out, beause the truth is not written in language you happen to understand.
Tbf, I've always kinda glossed past the more to-the-reality terms and tried to understand them contextually. Not "What is it called?", but "What it does?". The things I'd consider terms are more like "Imaginary Tree", "Sea of Quanta", or "Cocoon of Finality", which haven't been mistranslated as far as I can observe from this video.
I want to believe HoYo is aware of this. The latest Honkai chapter has a cute nod to it: People Vita was with referred to Honkai as "the Abyss", and had vastly different names to different classes of Honkai (Abyssal) beasts, so for them to try and communicate with Earth would be challenging.
based video really amazing
also what I hate about the honkai community is they keep yapping about retcon when the characters are just saying its a theory and a different perspective OR they can't understand when characters are joking and taking them at face value the post on twitter and spread misinformation for clout
That second part
I can guest Kafka's story quest is the latest of potential false information
If it weren't for hoyotubers pointing shet out
My head hurts trying to understand this... but alas someone took on the role of explaining this mess of a story that we all love dearly.
So it means that there's a possibility the traveler in Genshin has visited Belobog some points before the story even begins.
I stopped believing that something is impossible when they canonically made Asuka from EVA part of the Captainverse. They can use their cosmology to do whatever they want at this point.
Honkai star rail is canon for APHO which is also canon for honkai impact 3. Genshin name has impact just like honkai. But they say differently. Genshin developer is not that generous.
Thank you very much for this. I am developing a HSR lore masterlist document right now, and I will include this information in it.
Congratulations Homu Labs !
This video is a masterpiece !
It explains in a very comprehensive way a lot of details about this cosmology which is so vast, as well as issues that leads to common misinterpretations of the lore. This is a perfect way to set things at good basics for the following parts and the best video I've seen so far for any Captain that wants to start knowing more about the rich Honkai Universe and also people who already know informations about it ! I truly admire the effort put in this video, based informations about GGZ are almost non-existent nowadays, so the only way to study the Honkai Universe through it is by a lot of interpretations, and requires so much effort ! And the translation errors research is a real pain, especially since the original version is in Chinese and that expressions are very flexible.
You can be proud of you for this amazing video, and I already know that the other parts will also be difficult to make, but I'm sure you'll be able to get through it and give us an incredible series of lore explanation like you did until now !
Such a well put video, you definitely deserve more subscribers! Too bad i didn't get half of it because I've never really played honkai impact and too scared to get into it because I'm already playing genshin and star rail, and I'm already putting all my attention and energy to genshin's lore, I really wish there was one big video on honkai impact lore and it's story, totally not suggesting anything
Thank you for all the work. I’m so excited for this series
Fun fact, apparently Herta has curios that originate from Tears of Themis. I know this because another vtuber I watch has played that game and realized some of those objects (such as the stack of cards curio) are from the game.
At least, this is what they noticed, so whether that’s true or not, idk. I never played Tears of Themis.
Aeon make HSR looks disconnected from GGZ-HI3.. in GGZ we already reach Devinity Realms which is higher realm than IMG space (IMG Tree/SOQ) and meet higher beings (Outer Gods) but never once in the game mentioned about Aeon
I believe Aeon is just the name of a character in HSR... like Honkai which has many names I also think Aeon has many names and titles
No? Honkai name/title still honkai in hi3 and ggz and their concept is still same, meanwhile aeon is a beings who following path and transcended become aeon and "path" concept doesn't exist in hi3 and ggz
Wait so they're all in the same universe?? wow. like and subscribed.
it would be funny if they used multiple types of multiverses ( f.e 1st and 3rd from tegmark classification (vast universe and Everett quantum collaps interpetation))
So all along in HI3, every mention of "bubble universe" was supposed to be "bubble world"?
Yeah.
OOOH!! I thought Welt was from a parallel universe (like a different tree) but he's actually in the same tree just moving in it. So hypothetically, would it be possible for the Star Rail (train) to travel to the Genshin Impact world? Also, does this mean worlds like Jarillo-VI, the Xianxou, and Teyvat are like connected in a way? If they are, can a stelleron invade Teyvat and cause mayhem like it did in Jarilo?
Yes, in Honkai Impact, Otto already saw Teyvat, so that means it's possible. The problem would be that if the entity controlling things from above Teyvat is willing to accept more descendants
Appreciate the immense effort that would have gone into this,looking forward to the next vid in the series as Ggz is still very foreign to me
This is simply the best video ever to learn about honkai
As someone who reads at lot of LNs and manga, and scales (analyzing characters and cosmology from an mathematical, scientific, philosophical, and power scaling perspective) different series as a hobbie.
This issue of translation are nothing new for me. Unfortunately some series are less lucky than others. Don't even get me started on JRPGs like Persona.
But great work nonetheless. I am more concerned about the narrative and contextual implications of relatively normal beings able to traverse the Imaginary Tree.
Its is amazing how they put 7-8 games into one game which will be finish his main project and probably might be the last game as final project in the future.
Which connect all of type players into one game.
+ what is important we get also another continuation for other main games HI3 and Genshin at the same time .
bro its a great day. u uploading a video and me getting the artbook.
Good video :) Keep up the hard work!
But just to be curious: apart from Mihoyo games, do you hope to cover the lore of other gacha games, or other genres ? If you ever feel to have the time or effort to do so of course. No need to rush.
As of now I don't have any plans. But who knows... maybe in the future if I feel like I want to cover something else.
Thank you homu labs! Also thanks hoyostans for there help too you are both fantastic sources of lore and information and detail
Thanks homu labs
for a fantastic explaintion on the specific translations plus the universe world issue and more plus adding Reasons plus stateing what you mean and how you mean it i love your videos for that and more
I got to learn plenty new things thanks to this video which also means alot
And yes i love the different perspectives the characters give and narrator gives
cause as a player or one who loves lore i am plus the characters doing the best they can to theorise and learn the lore i love the mystery behind it plus the layers and potential layers added on truly feels like a great journey
Looking forward to the rest of the series!
we need a kanchouverse video
Yes, yes, yes!!!
At 18:16 the "worlds" that akivili travels is actually 诸界 which lit means multiple worlds
The "worlds" you are highlighting is actually from the part "linked worlds together"
The 星海 is just a metaphor to refer travelling across multiple stars, it isnt a made up word at all, its just used to generally describe things so it shouldnt be worth pointing out if all translations are similar.
Its worth noting that 银河/星系 is just generally understood as Galaxy, if u want to specify its the milky way it should be 银河系. And no, galaxy is not the universe, they arent the same thing. Galaxy is just a component within a universe not the universe itself by pure scientific definition. You shouldnt group 银河 and 宇宙 together as one and you should not try to differentiate 银河 and 星系
At 20:12 its worth noting that they most likely picked Universe on purpose not a mistranslation because thats prob what the writers wanted to say. Because they are basing it off actual scientific stuffs, its only very natural to assume they are trying to talk about the universes which is the more correct scientific term. Also scientifically wise its more likely that its a universe not an actual galaxy. I have a hunch the writers themselves may not have known how to use the terms properly
Localization convey the meanings and ideas better than the og is not at all rare. It depends entirely on the skill of the people doing the localization and their writing skills. Some original works are just that badly conveyed it takes a very skilled translator to make it even comprehensible.
At 22:23 it isnt a mistranslation, its called localization. They picked parrarel universes because thats what english uses to describe such concepts. When talking about parralel worlds-平行世界 to any normal chinese, they will immediately think of parralel universes-平行宇宙 without any hesitation. So the problem here is if the 2 terms are so vastly synonymous in chinese, why dont the writers try to specify their terms more in game? Either its because they actually just meant parralel universes or the writers themselves dont even know how to use the terms the right way.
Also you have to understand the term "world" in east asian culture overall is pretty wide lul. You can say 世界 to me as a vietnamese and I would understand it in many diff ways. A term so wide and so iconic and doesnt have any replacable words is bound to show up everywhere even if they didnt intend for it be like that so take the chinese consistency with a bit of salt because they prob didnt even mean to connect everything.
Also genshin belonging to the same universe is a recent retcon they did, last time they directly stated that genshin is on the tree but on an entirely different branch but the writers seems to have cooked smt different since then
Hey! Took some time to address all the concerns you raised here. Hope I can bring some light to the matter. I also took the liberty to address some of the issues you raised with the Hoyostans folks since they have a better understanding of how the terminology is applied than me. So, this is kind of a shared answer.
First, you are right, I highlighted the wrong term at 18:16. That was a mistake on my part because I wasn’t that familiar with 诸界. I will also add an edit in the pinned comment to mention this. Thanks for letting me know!
Now, talking about 银河/星系. In the context of the Honkai series, the two words are used to describe different things. 星系 consists of 星(star) and 系(tie). Star Tie, hence, a collection of stars.
银河 is Silver River. It's normally meant to refer to the visual phenomenon of the Milky Way, but has been used in reference to the Galaxy as a concept because it's shorter. 银河系 is Silver River + the Tie from Star Tie. So, Silver River Tie. It's literally the Galaxy as a concept. These normally refer only to our Galaxy, but it's not unheard of that it's used more freely.
I know that the terms ‘Galaxy’ and ‘Universe’ mean two different things in reality, but in the context of the Honkai series, they have been used interchangeably. Dr. MEI even says "银河宇宙" in GGZ, which literally translates to ‘Milky Way Universe’. Again, I want to reiterate that in the context of the Honkai series these words can have different meanings than IRL. Why exactly miHoYo chose to make 银河 appear equivalent to Universe is anyone's guess, but they specifically call it like that.
Next, Himeko’s explanation about the leaves of the Imaginary Tree. The idea that the translators know better should've been dismissed ages ago. That was proven not to be the case. All I need is to point to the ‘Mars and Venus’ fiasco in the recent chapters of HI3. There have been many mistakes on the localization team in the past. Also, in this particular case the localization makes things even more confusing, it doesn’t simply them.
Regarding ‘parallel world’ and ‘parallel universe’ being interchangeable. Yes, I agree in general, but not in the context of the Honkai games. This is a common misconception because in most stories, the terms are interchangeable since the difference does not matter. For instance, if a story is about a dude travelling back in time but never leaving Earth, then the difference between 'world' and 'universe' will not matter. If the Universe is a 4D structure within a multiverse, then the difference also won't matter much. In HI3 it does matter, because they're trying to build a consistent cosmology. Since it uses an 11D Universe filled with worlds, the difference between world and universe is important.
I agree with your take on the usage of “world” in Asian culture. This is something that I personally observed during the creation of this series.
Lastly, Genshin was always part of the Imaginary Tree. Neither I, nor the people from the Hoyostans community could find any statements from HoYo saying that they changed anything. As far as we know, Genshin is just another world/leaf/branch in the Honkai Universe.
@@HomuLabs The 系 in 星系 actually means system by the way, not tie or link. Its a direct calque of English "Stellar system". The word which means tie you are refering to is 繫 which this actually means to tie as in 聯繫(联系) which means to contact. In simplified chinese they are written with the same character but by nature the 系 in 星系 means system not to tie. You see the point now? It can either mean a system of stars aka a big galaxy or a literal stellar system aka just a normal group of stars.
银河 does mean Milky Way yes, but in general modern terms it just referes to galaxy nowadays, I hardly see anyone using 银河 alone and it means Milky Way. If they want to specify it then they use 银河系, this word doesnt mean galaxy tie, it means Milky Way(our Milky Way). Just because the word composes of different meaningful elements doesnt mean its like that. Its like saying 矛盾 means lance and shield just because 矛 means lance and 盾 means shield. When its actual meaning is conflict, contradiction.
银河宇宙 means Galatic Cosmic, its a real adjective used in scientific terms like in the word 银河宇宙射线 which means Galatic Cosmic Rays. In fact its a calque of English galactic cosmic. This term is purely an adjective in all normal circumstances. You need to tell them to provide the context for me to see what it actually is cause im afraid they are wrongly misinterpreting the term.
Each game has a different localization teams hence different quality. I will just straight up say it, Hi3 localization team sucks ass, they dont know what they are even doing, they make up words on spot, they dont proof read properly,... whereas Genshin and SR localization teams are just much much better and shows that the people themselves are professionals and have better quality control and a lot of times know better than the language they were translating. You cant group different teams into one.
I will point it out simply by the translations. A lot of the references of names, places arent actually in the original language, those are purely made up for the gig and gags which create a more immersive experience and fit more with the tone of the games. It shows the translators are really creative, they know when to make up words and when to not. For your extra info, the localization team consists of both chinese who knows the language and foreingers who knows chinese. It can be seen clearly with languages like Vietnamese where the grammar sometimes is very chinese-like indicating the translator isnt a native and in English where some sentences can convey the meanings but just feel off indicating the translator are skilled in the original language but not the one they are trying to translate it into. And what do you see in SR and HI3? Meanings and infos are conveyed well but the sentences and wordings are sometimes off, indicating that its a chinese translating not a native speaker. So if the company themselves arent able to fully agree on the term to use for other languages which leads to confusion, what makes you think we themselves know that its simply a mistranlsation and not just the original text themselves confused about the terms?
Also for your info, they translated it into Mars but then Venus later may mean that its a not proof reading mistake, if they can translate venus correctly a second later, its most likely an overlook in translation, shows the Hi3 localization team incompetence.
About the 11D, they are probably using M theory as a basis which in that theory, universe and worlds synonymous and not so different. Like I said, if they really want to stop such confusions about the 2 terms, why dont they just specify it a bit more? Unless their intention are the 2 terms are synonymous and interchangable.
The retcon here isnt Genshin not belonging to the Img tree, its Genshin belonging in the very same universe. Mihoyo used to specifically state that Genshin is on the IMG tree but on a very far universe or a different branch. This indicates that at some point in the past each branch is a different universe to match it to Layman's terms but along the way the writers changed it to make it more convoluated to make it more mysterious which I think is a bad choice
I will pass on your arguments and points raised in the comment to the Hoyostans translators.
When I first came across this confusing information in hsr or hi3, I assumed it was a translation error and operated under the contextual meaning of the word(s), and it was clear to me what was meant. It was extremely confusing to read/hear the first time in English, but I managed to get to the same point in understanding it as you are presenting here.
Thank you for the work, and I really hope they work on some of the biggest glaring errors in the English localization. Maybe one day they will discover context can tell them which word is appropriate 😂
After the video (great btw) i have one question
If the games "universes" are like planet but veeeery far away, how can we explain the world where Kallen was saved? I doubt there's now a new solar system identical to earth but we know for sure that it exist.
And another thing, the galactic corporation IPC (i don't remember the name now) in Star Rail, if all the universes are planet why that massive interstellar corporation has never visited hi3 or ggz where there was massive wars against wills and herrschers? These are fights whose repercussions would be felt across every galaxy
The Data Bank in HSR tells us that worlds are separated by Imaginary energy. So, basically, you can think of them as sort of "different dimensions". You cannot just go from one world to another because of the Imaginary energy that keeps them separated. For that you need the power of an Aeon. Just like the Express uses Akivili's powers to travel though multiple worlds, or how some factions that have Emanators among them can also travel between worlds. In HI3 we also see that Herrschers, Stigma Awakened and MANTIS are also able to travel through Imaginary Space. But yeah, it's not that simple to travel between them. It's not just space. But I'll go into details about that in the next parts.
What Otto did is create an entire new branch (timeline) that grows from the main HI3 word (Earth). Basically, he created a new identical world, with the difference that Kallen didn't die that day.
@@HomuLabs I forgot the part of the world separated by img energy, but this means that all the planet in HSR are within the borders of one img energy "barrier" because i don't think that the IPC or who possess a normal spaceship can travel trough but they still travel across planets.
I know that he created a new identical world until Kallen's death but after that event the story is different so this universe exist somewhere in the img tree.
One more thing that came to my mind, if the img tree in HSR world is still a theory (so for now it isn't true o false for the people) how can the data bank talk about the energy? even Herta knows it.
@@abaddon2040 For your first point, When akivili did his original run through the universe, he was also laying down the "star rail", which was a means to connect the different worlds, and regular people could travel on it without needing to be an emanator or another ability to control imaginary energy to travel.
to put it in a metaphor, imagine the entire universe is solid rock. And each world within is a cave. You can get from earth to the moon with conventional travel, but trying to get to another world normally would cause you to run into the cave wall. However, when Akivili layed down the star rail during his travels, he was more digging a tunnel through the rock to the other caves(worlds). Regular people can pass through these tunnels to reach other caves without issue.
As for why the imaginary tree is still a theory. Well, in our world, Gravity itself is only a theory. We can feel it, interact with it, measure it, and even control it to some very limited degree. However we have no idea how it truly works, or if gravity is even a real force at all.
Imaginary energy is the same. Characters can interact with it, and some can even control it, but they don't know everything about it, especially in the context of the wider imaginary tree.
@@t0x1cfire75 we don't really know if the Aeon Akivili build the rail to travel trought universes because the IPC know some world or planet where the rail doesn't exist.
And no, the gravity is a fact, we don't know fully but it exist.
The IMG Tree is still a theory because no one in SR can travel trough universes to prove if it's right or wrong, if these planets were different universes the IMG Tree will be a fact, not a theory.
woah I can smell lots of work!
thank you homu this video refreshed my messy mind again!
also thank you for your efforts I also trying to learn all the story about "hoyoverse" so I know it's really hard
again thanks for your efforts my friend!
Thanks for the video. It was really hard to talk about Honkai with others and running into the issue where they have completely different understanding of how its world works
As someone who's new to the honkai concepts this channel has helped me a ton
Disclaimer: I am not necessarily trying to prove Homu wrong, I'm mainly just confused.
So about the Astral Express... Is it really different 'leaves' on the Imaginary Tree and not just planets? It just makes more sense for it to be planets, given how things are consistent between Jarilo-6 and The Luofu. Wider forces like the Interastral Peace Corporation, Aeons, and other things are known in both worlds. If they're on different leaves of the Imaginary Tree, does that mean Jarilo-6 is just a single planet in an empty void, so to speak, and the other planets in Star Rail aren't even in the same spacetime place? Perhaps the Astral Express can travel between both planets and 'leaves'?
This also all begs the question of why things present in Star Rail aren't seen in other games. Are there Aeons in the other Hoyo games? Paths? Where is the Honkai in Star Rail?
Keep in mind I know only a few things about Honkai Impact 3rd.
Since you said that you are not that familiar with HI3, I'll try explaining it mostly using HSR as a reference. We know from the Data Bank that before Akivili started Their journey to connect the worlds, "interstellar travel" between worlds was not possible. Even if different civilization could build a spaceship, they would eventually hit an "invisible barrier". (imaginary energy) But, with the power of the Aeons, people were finally able to travel between worlds. Akivili wanted to connect all the worlds on the Imaginary Tree, so They built the star rail, (basically a path that let's people travel between those "walls" of imaginary energy) and allow different civilizations that travel on Their path to move between worlds. That was not possible before Them. As the worlds became more connected, different factions and institution's like the IPC raised, and tried to establish trade between worlds and even came up with a currency that can be used across them. (Note that some factions that have Emanators can travel between worlds using other means since they are not depended on the star rail. But normal folks generally cannot travel otherwise)
We know that there are an infinity of worlds and Akivili didn't travel to all of them. This means that not all of them are connected. The worlds that are not connected by the Star Rail are still isolated and don't really know much about anything else in the Universe. (Just look at the people from Jarilo-VI. They lost contact with the rest of the Universe for 700 years and Gepard was shocked to hear about other Aeons beside Qlipoth) Such world is the one from HI3, which Welt mentions that it's not on the records of the Express, so they cannot travel there since they have no idea where it is since Akivili never went there.
The Data Bank also refers to the leaves of the Tree as "Star Clusters". In HI3, there have been mentions of other galaxies like Andromeda. This leads us to believe that the "leaves" can be as big as multiple galaxies and star clusters. Of course, this doesn't mean that there can't be more planets in a single leaf. We know that in HI3 both Earth and Venus had life at different points. They are different worlds in a single "leaf". But, the Data Bank also reveals that the Express travels between "leaves", since Akivili's end goal was to reach the "end" of the Tree. While some places in HSR might be in the same "leaf". Which is very hard to tell since they use "world" very vastly, (They use world to refer to planets, "leaves", star system, etc.) but we know that it mainly travels between these "leaves" separated by Imaginary Energy. All this info is in the Data Bank of HSR. Of course, having context from HI3 can help people understand it easier, but I think that they explained it pretty well for HSR players only. The issues is mainly, IMO, the vastness of the term "world", which confuses not only GLB players, but even CN players at the same time.
@@HomuLabs So thats how it is, while some "world" maybe just consist of one planet like jarilo-vi the other world may consist of multiple planet or even star system. so while akivili may have good intention of exploring and connecting between world, but akivili also tell other powerfull being that there is another world and start their influence there.
@@HomuLabs I think that is where the confusion is, since first we have to see why the word "world" was used if it refers to a planet or literally another universe, since many of these concepts come from the isekai.
It can be said that many times they are using the word world to refer not to another planet within the same universe but to another plane to another parallel reality, hence the barrier that does not allow these 2 to exist since it would possibly be destroyed due to the different laws that exist in each reality.
It is not that akilvili could not travel to earth but that the earth of welt does not even exist as such in that reality, since akivili as such cannot exist in that reality of HI3.
but here come the sugars, the bubble worlds, the GI traveling twins, even Alice from that same universe.
It can even be said that between these "worlds" is that space where the sea of quanta/ley lines exists where not even time has any meaning, centuries can pass there and 1 minute outside, and if even in GI it shows that this is something that really happens outside the "world" of teyvat.
That's why I would say that the translations are well done, it's just that depending on the language, things can be made clearer than in the original language due to the lack of concept or its own way of writing.
GI with the large planned irminsul tree, which is the equivalent of the one imagined but not the same, demonstrates that there can be several trees in different universes.
So lady morax is not canon... how sad
:(
Im so happy when you do something like this Homu Lab, it's help us a lot, keep going and I'll wait for the next one. Oh yeah i want to tell you this for a long time, about subtitles, can you fix it? Because it difficult to follow, you know what I mean, right? If you can, that's help a lot for those who don't good in English, like me. If you can't, well, never mind. 😅
waouh just amazing, very thank you Homu-sensei.
Homu, do you know why EN translators keeps insistently use world = universe in same meaning in Hi3rd and other translation issues? Like why do they not even try to fix this at this point? (I lost myself when vita said shes from mars instead of venus)
We cannot know for sure. If I have to guess, it's simply because the people that translate the text into English are not familiar with the lore of the Honkai series and how the writers use the terminology. They simply translate the text without the context that the writers have. As a standalone translation, translating 世界 (shìjiè) as Universe can somehow work. (Big emphasis to somehow. It's borderline acceptable.) But it doesn't work in the context of the Honkai series when they have an entire different term - 宇宙 (yǔzhòu) - that they already use for Universe and it means something entirely different from 世界 (shìjiè).
For I understand, the Imaginary Tree still a multiverse but it's not each leaf is an universe
I haven't seen otto's theory about the Imaginary Tree and the Sea of Quanta get disproved by anyone or anything, at least in Hi3 and HSR (of maybe i just don't remember)
Otto said something like "Each branch is a world/universe, and each leaf is a form of civilization"
So, my understanding is each leaf is a civilization and it can be a planet, a star system or maybe even a galaxy and each brand is the actual universe
Also, Hi3 and GGZ both happen on Earth so they can't be in the same universe
The Imaginary Tree is referred to as Universe in the games. That's the CN terminology. The only instance they use 'multiverse' in the entire Honkai series is in IX's data bank entry, and we have no context about the meaning of the word there. They never refer to worlds as a Universe in any CN text of the games. (except for Ch 10 of HI3, which is most likely a writing error that I addressed in the video) HoYo has been very consistent with how they use their terminology in Chinese throughout all the games, that's why I said that the English localization can be misleading and it's best to stick with CN.
Also, keep in mind that there are multiple interpretations of the Imaginary Tree and the Universe throughout their games. Otto is not the only one who comes with an explanation. Unfortunately, other interpretations, like Zandar's in HSR, use the Tree analogy in different ways. Otto also referred to the different leaves as "worlds", not Universes. In the context of the Honkai series: Universe = Everything (IMG Tree); World = Any structure of space-time within said Universe.
Because the interpretations are vast, there are multiple versions. While Otto says that each leaf is a civilization, Zandar says that each leaf is a Star Cluster. GGZ has another explanation of the Universe altogether that I'll get into detail in another video. This is why is tricky.
Finally, yeah both GGZ and HI3 happen of Earth, but they are a different version of Earth altogether. Since HoYo was still in the early stages of their "Universe" back then, to give players a sense of familiarity, they based both worlds (GGZ and HI3) on the actual IRL Earth, hence why they have the same name.
@@HomuLabs 2 thing you definitely got wrong
Otto referred to the different leaves as "forms of civilization" not "worlds"
And I said a branch is an universe not a leaf
@@HomuLabs also, if the Imaginary Tree is just one universe then It definitely has a bunch of different timeline which for me and many people out there it's a multiverse
Throughout the series, Otto offered multiple exploitations of the Imaginary Tree. The explanation you mention is from Chapter 17. Yes, Otto called there each civilization a branch and each leaf a moment in time that reflects the development of said civilization. In Chapters 26 and 27 he uses other analogies and outward calls them worlds. As I said, there is no one "true" explanation of the Imaginary Tree, since it's a visualization scheme and everybody sees it differently. HSR uses the analogy in a completely different way for example, and even Su describes the leaves as different worlds in the Second Key.
The use of the word Universe is only in English. In CN, they refer to the leaves of the IMG Tree as "worlds". This is an important distinction because" Universe" is used to refer to the "all-encompassing", "the everything", AKA, the Imaginary Tree. We know from the AE VN that the Universe is an 11D structure based on the M + String Theory. "World" on the other hand is used to refer to any 4D (space-time) system in this 11D macrocosm called "Universe". It can be a planet, a Solar System, a Star Cluster, or a "leaf" with many galaxies. The word is flexible, but they never use 'Universe" for these 4D systems because Universe is used to refer to THE "everything".
The term "multiverse" is a simplification of Evertt's interpretation of the Many Worlds Scheme to make it easier for people to understand. Multiverse of Universes flows much easier than Universe or Worlds, so many popular franchises adopted it. miHoYo respects Everett's original meta-theory and uses Universe of Worlds instead. As a structure, it functions similarly to a multiverse, so if it helps, you can think of it as one to simplify it. But, it's important to recognize that it's not really a "multiverse" to avoid confusion when talking to other people. Just like now, when we are basically talking about the same thing, but I use the official terminology that HoYo uses in their games and you use a "borrowed" term from other media franchises to simply your understanding of the Cosmology.
I hope that this clears the confusion and makes my points go across.
Great work as usual 👏
I'm a bit confused on the Universe chart shown at 22:37. I understand the idea being proposed, but I was under the impression that the worlds travelled by the Express, currently, all take place in the same world. Mainly because from what we've seen, the HSR world is a vast and interconnected galaxy with intergalactic trade and travel. We can even text people from Belobog on the Xianzhou ship. Or can this intergalactic society actually traverse imaginary energy?
Imaginary Tree = Universe
The Astral Express travels through the Universe, which means that the Astral Express travels through the Astral Express. That's why we have 2 versions of Bronya that are just from different planets.
It's not like in real life. In the Honkaiverse each galaxy is covered by barriers of Imaginary energy; passing through those barriers means "Travelling through the Imaginary Tree". It's not easy to do because you would need strong spaceships. That's why trailblazers use the Astral Express to do it faster.
If you wonder why we can text through the universe, it's because of Herta's technology. That woman is a genius among geniuses, and people should be more aware of her.
Thank you so much for all the videos and explanations !
This Video was exactly what i was looking for. Thank you for going through the trouble of collecting the information about the Chinese texts.
great point but honestly i disagree the reason why honkai is confusing isnt the wrong use of terminology .u made a good points as to why its like that and why its confusing but whoever i asked(not many) said these
1. use of complex terminology and words
2. the story feels scattered and all over the place (dont even get me started on the old world and herssrcher cores . back then it was a nightmare)
3. horrible explaination going into details about one thing when the entire concept wasnt even clear (biggest offender for me in this one is the durandal chapter and whole of finality arc)
4. overly long dialogue that is makes you forget what was even said 1min ago
honestly if it wasnt for your videos i wouldve absolutely given up on the last chapter ,even the sea of quanta chapters were made 1000 times easier to understand just because of you and that gave me hard time before your vids to even slightly understand
i been playing the game ever since launch and always struggled to understand it due to the weird explanation but it was never a problem till they introduced the universes ,worlds,finality.the tree and so on
so the tldr is; translation errors confuse World, Star system, Star Cluster, Milky way, Galaxy, Galaxies, Universe, and Reality by using them interchangeably even though different meanings are implied
Ggz vet here.... SEA love how he said ggz is small... Ggz paved the way for hi3
Can't wait to share with my friends. Also I see what you did at 27:00
Thank you guy! I known it already, but you tell this thing, firstly, by simple language, secondly, for a lot of people. It's cool, because by this video some hoyofans don't need now to go through Honkai impact 3 times, clear every quest in Genshin and read every book in Star rail. Thanks again!
Ah yes. When someone says Herrschers are above Aeons due to cosmology, I will send the link of this video to them.
Thats Maybe Great
Dude Honaki universe is confusing 😨
TruE
Very Confusing