EVH vs Modelers AGAIN! (I HAVE To Do This!)
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
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Thanks for watching my comparison of the EVH 5150III 50W EL34 vs the Fender Tone Master Pro, Neural DSP Quad Cortex & Fractal Audio Axe Fx III! Let me know your thoughts in the comments below! Cheers!
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Disclaimer: This video isn't sponsored although I got the Tone Master Pro from Fender. So as usual, all thoughts and opinions are 100% my own!
Keywords: metallica, sonic drive studio, james hetfield, meshuggah, deftones, rhythm, guitar, amp, tube, modeler, line 6, helix, fractal audio, axe fx, fm3, fm9, hx stomp, tonex, neural dsp, quad cortex, gibson, les paul, custom, standard, esp ltd, phoenix, black metal, deluxe, 1000, ec1000, ec1000t, baritone, prs, mushok, 9-string, 8-string, ibanez, meshuggah m80m, fishman, fluence, seymour duncan, nw44, schecter, hellraiser, e1, apocalypse, ml drums, ml sound lab, grit, meld, cubase, slate digital, steven slate audio, phoenix-7 sc607b, sc608b, adam jones, will adler, tutorial, lesson, tones, settings, new, firmware, free, mesa boogie, marshall, orange, soldano, friedman, peavey, evh, laney, redseven, victory, wangs, lichtlaerm audio, walrus audio, engl, bluguitar, driftwood, hughes kettner, pedal, djent, death, rock, crunch, classic, ola, fluff, blackstar, randall, dsl50, jcm 2000, ds20hr, dsl1000hr, 6505, 6505mh, 1992 original, xxx, satriani, astro 20, slo100, diezel, vh4, vh2, ksr, revv, generator, jvm410h, jvm210h, jvm205, boss, tube screa,er v30, ownhammer, rock-box, essentials, low-tuned, bogren, sc20, sv20, plexi, jubilee, 2525, invective, mini, leviathan, iridium, mercury, preamp, jmp1, dual, triple, mini, rectifier, mk iic+, mkv, kraken, mkii, fireball, 25, 100, powerball ii, savage, special edition, founders edition, slash, 5150, iii, el34, 6l6, single, or15, tiny terror, dual terror, or30, ad30, rockerverb, 50, mkiii, purple, nightmare, archon, mt100, mark tremonti, tubemeister, black spirit, grandmeister, deluxe, toontrack, superior, ez, drummer, ironball, ironheart, ht, clob, venue, jj jr, emg, jb comparison, rig, capture, kemper, profile, free, preset, headrush, amped, digital, analog, hotone, ampero, roland, me90, leptop, daw, kreative devices, desktop, music production, mixing
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Jason here from Fender. Nothing was changed in the amp model for this firmware update. The ONLY difference is the user selectable SIC options for the IR block. This obviously had a dramatic impact on the results. TM Pro will keep getting better with future updates. Great video Jon!
lets goooo!!!
Send me a unit! I'm on disability. Can't afford nice things anymore.
Well done fender, you’ve made a nervous consumer very happy
Great update! Love the SLO and the orange.
It sounds fantastic, and to my ear sounds better than the Neural and Fractal in this demo!
Isolated Guitars:
Real EVH: 4:12
Axe FX III: 4:19
Real EVH: 6:29
Quad Cortex: 6:36
Real EVH: 10:09
ToneMaster Pro: 10:16
It sounds to me like all 3 of them could get the job done.
Fender closest to amp. Great job!
QC sound too flat and digital.
Axe FX sounds good but too much compression compare to amp.
Fender sounded grainy ...QC was the best
They all sound extremely good and very close to the real amp. Nice work👍❤️
Thats fantastic news, I have been thinking about buying an TMP because I like the hardware and it has a very intuitive interface, but because I only use EVH amps I have been holding off, but now with this video I actually think I will order one ASAP, so thanks for the comparison yet again! 😀👍
Honestly all 4 are unrecognizable in a blind test. They sound exactly the same in a mix.
Thanx for this, the TMP sounds much better now on par ... but still The head has so much definition in the low’s and harmonics than all of them.. love it 🙏🏻
Great job Fender, sounded awesome. TMP owners must be thrilled with the new Update and the results. I thought the QC also sounded very close. But, getting the highs to sound just like the real EVH on any of the Modelers is perhaps the most difficult part. Thanks
i think the same way, there's something in the high end and transients, that modelers need to adress..the fender did good on transients compared to the others, but it's not perfect
Quite impressed at the 50w EL34 is my primary amp... been considering a TMP for smaller gigs but held off, perhaps it's time! Great video, thank you!
Is it just me or does the TMP sound a bit more grainy than the QC and Axe?
Yes. I'm not sure if lowering presence woutd help that.
Thank you, great comparison. Isolated and definitly in the mix I probably would not be able to judge in a blind test which amp is which modeller or the real amp. Soundwise the top modellers are so close that it does not matter anymore which one you pick. It comes more down to usability, number of amps & effects, tweakability and such. I do not need hundrets of different amps in a modeller as long as I can get a good high gain sound and a clean sound. In my opinion the TMP offers both for me and the usability (without a PC) is far superior to the other modellers.
This is the first time I’ve heard the TMP. I’m a fractal owner myself and am really impressed with how it handles the low end, in this demo! This demo has been really insightful! Thanks for all of your work.
It's sounds so much better compared to the first iterations. Well done Fender and Jon!
TMP sounds a lot better!
I totally agree. The TMP has so much power under the hood that it has potential to really blow other modelers away. Potential because of a highly developed UI that makes adoption easy and extremely accessible. Potential because of FREE updates. High monetary entry point but value is still to be determine because no additional money is required after the purchase. Potential because of Fenders commitment for further development of this platform(Biggest ?).
I think the Quad Cortex sounded the closest...
Really promising update from Fender, if they continue in this direction it will sell a tonne!
I wonder why the settings on on modelers were so extreme (for example Presence all the way up) but not on the amp?!
The presence control on the Stealth has a different taper than the 50w
I've been a Fractal user for years...and a tube amp users for many more years. Anybody who thinks a modern modeller doesn't stack up to the real tube amp, when you take the time to tweak it to match, has his head up his butt,. Yes, they've reached the point where you really can't tell the difference. Particularly iin a recording. Live, there can be some differences in how they feel and how they sound in the room, particularly if you use FRFR speakers. But once we're talking about a recorded sound, YOU ARE THERE.
Yes, I completely agree. I've been dealing with Tube and State Valves amps on every stage, gigg, and recording from the 80s - Current. During the earlier years, we knew, analog can't just touch our REAL amps - especially, RECORDING. Today, they are a lot beyond what I didn't expected. Lol. I had been messing my Fractal in the last 11 months, and man....I can't even hear which is a real amp anymore. Actually, my modeler's alot better than my amp these days. 😅
To be fair this was already the case even before Fractal. The fact is massive bands were using Digitech modelling live and the main reason they stopped was reliability issues not tone. As someone who has always had both tube amps and digital stuff and someone who could actually 100% ABX audio tests before I damaged my hearing, I've been reading ignorant comments from people about modelling for 20 years. Sure many companies did themselves no favours with their presets they shipped with devices. And man this also brings to my mind the amount of ignorant Blackstar hate over the years that made most people overlook the great TVP and Silverline amps. But the reality is there are so many great classic modelling devices and modelling amps and solid state amps that people mostly overlook and there is still so much modelling ignorance in comments I read online. Peavey and Digitech were some but not the only ones who were on it before Fractal came in and transformed a lot of opinions but even now Blackstar modelling is seriously underrated and it's even been interesting to see the opinions about the TMP evolve since release. Here we have in these comments Jason from Fender informing us that this Peavey model is actually unchanged in this update and the only difference now is the impulse curve updates. It's an amazing bit of info when we consider comments and comparisons made up until now and how opinions have suddenly shifted based on false perceptions.
Not agree. I hear differences using my small iphone speaker. Ampsims are close enough but definitely not the same. I prefer sizzle and rop end variations of a real amp
@@MichaelLenz1 🤣🤣🤣 What a joke. No you can't. 100% you wouldn't be able to pick a tube amp from an amp sim from recordings in an ABX test. Even the best golden ears have failed. And if you think that the difference is sizzle or top end then I'm sure you have no idea what you are talking about.
@@Civic. so you’re know better than I, and ignore the differences I already told you? If I not hear it, ask you a question how I identified where top end is less dense and where sound is more midrangey? Is this a joke you think? Yes I can, and I already told this above what exactly differs
That made a massive difference to the TMP alright and now sounds really close. If I was splitting hairs I'd still say it sounds a little less accurate that the QC and Fractal but its so close it doesnt really make a huge difference. All 3 sounded great and those riffs as always were awesome!!
I'd be very interested in hearing this comparing the tonex pedal.
Fractal still sounds the closest
QC for me
They all sound great now to me! Glad to see that Fender has patched it up. The TMP is the one I don’t have right now but I kinda want to try one just because the UI is so beautiful.
There is high-end detail in the real amp and AxeFX that is missing from the QC and TMP. Could be the way they are EQ’d on the QC and TMP. The worse offender for high-end detail loss is the QC. Highs sound rolled off and muffled. There is also less note separation. TMP falls somewhere between the QC and the AxeFX.
Same
@@EDWINPIERCE168 The fractal had a slighting different low end to the amp..QC did a better job there
Great job as always Jon! And thank you for the updated review. They all really do sound great at this point (to my ears)!
Matched COrtex is GREAT!!!
Very!
TMP actually sounds closer to the amp than QC and AxeFX now.
JAJAJAAJ AJAJA Pffffff
@@CRISTIANDMF did you listen to the demo?
@@ImmyT89 Course I did.
@@CRISTIANDMF so why'd you laugh? Both AxeFx and QC sounded too compressed (too much cliping) while TMP sounded more open and organic. at least in this demo.
Not my style of amp or music, but the TMP sounded closest to the real amp, imo. The QC and AXE sounded really good too. I dont think you can go wrong with any unit. Just comes down to your use case and workflow.
Fractal audio products are so far unrivaled in terms of convenience, sound and reliability. FM 9 turbo is the best
Fender - we'll release a steaming pile of turd first... Then eventually put some lipstick and makeup on it to make it better. Gotta be a sucker to of bought this unit when it first came out
TMP does sound much better than your previous tests, but it's still the worst of the 3. Fractal was 99% there, QC was just lacking a tiny bit in the low end so the chugs weren't as satisfying, but the TMP seemed to be missing something in the mids so the notes weren't as distinguishable in the mix
Jon - have you ever done this comparison with the Gojira (X) plug-in?
The Axe-FX III sounded the best for me. The QC was a little bit flat and feels like it’s missing something. The Fender is really good too, but I’m still staying with my Axe-FX III. 🤘🎩
Real amp riff at 4:03 (and 6:19 and 10:01) has this cool one second of muted overtones, like muted pinch harmonics, and this part isn't heard in modelers riffs demo. I hope it is because this part really wasn't played through modelers, not because they didn't recreate it ?
Looks like Line 6 needs to add the Stealth and/or EL34 5150 III models to Helix so you can include it in your comparison next time!
The real amp has something like really aggressive and vocal about it in the mids that the modelers did get quite right. Especially hear it on the palm mutes.
Man I just really love that amp
The Tonemaster Pro is by far the closest of the three!! WOW!
Not for my ears..It sounded grainy...
@@algorithm007ifyI wonder if it is because Fender is stuck in the 80s with a 44.1 KHz sampling rate (although, to give them credit, 32 bit is much better). Tonex, Boss, QC, etc, are all running higher sampling rates up to 192 KHz and the results are stunning. DSP operations will always have artifacts that can sound 'grainy', but by sampling much higher than audible range can help alleviate some of those artifacts to be 'out of band' and much less audible.
I am sitting on the fence about buying a TMP and after reading the manual to source this spec has caused me more grief and hesitation than excitement. I try to let my ears be the final judge. I agree with your grainy assessment.
All sounded very good. I still don’t see a reason to sell my fractal.
But we need to talk about your awesome riffs: where can I hear moore?
Subtle difference. All approved. Liked them all. QC for me for the simplicity.
man, all three sounded close in certain regards, but there were also significant tonal shifts in the modelers as you switched up the demo patterns. I suppose you could adjust the modelers to the particular style of what's being played.
I see the cranked presence knob and like what I hear, but it's insane that this is all there is in presence. Good demo!
The Stealth 100 has a very different presence taper. The 50w amps basically have more presence when set to noon.
On the 100W Verison (non-Stealth, but assume the same for Stealth) the last 0.5/10 are super ciritical for dialing in the presence. They shape SO MUCH, it's crazy.
All 3 are pretty close, close enough that it doesn’t matter.
EXCELLENT - man...Thank you very much!!!
All sounds great mate, my Axe FX 3 sounds shit
the fractal just sounds incredible
Tone Master was actually the closest to the amp. But the Axe FX sounded the best.
It’s a pity that there wasn’t Tonex in the comparison.
Still sounds worse than the qc and axefx
Hey Jon, how come the TONEX is appearing less frequently than previously in these comparison style videos? Or is this one because you don't own this amp to capture? Thanks
I imagine it’s because this is a modeler shootout
Why is it that Fender can't get the EVH amp right? At no point ever will you turn an EVH Stealth Presence knob to almost 100%
Read Jon’s comment about presence knob at 100% to match the difference between his 50w and the 100w version which is what is modeled. Presence knob at 100% in this case is correct.
Amazing all 3. Awesome video
TMP sounds way better now!
If Fender had of released the unit with this firmware they would’ve avoided an awful lot of heat.
It just shows where TMP is headed and how good it already is. This is just update #1 (aside from some smaller updates fixes & features)
Fender kills the QC, it sounds thin in comparison.
Fractal is still the king.
way off... QC was the best. Fractal had an inaccurate low end. TMP was grainy
Interesting session. I really preferred the amp even if only ever so slightly. It has a congested grit in the very high mid range that the axe and QC seem to suppress by comparison. The TMP sounds the closest in that regard but maybe has slightly too much presence. Your demos are great and all the hardware is nice at this point.
AxeFX takes The W
Fractal is definately the king here, QC is a great 2nd (not far off from Fractal) and TMP is slowly getting there, not there yet imo
Came back to this one again 😂 do you upload your tones you create up to the tones cloud for the TMP? Thanks!
I would just copy the settings
It seems like every month a new 5150iii plug in comes out, they are getting close in the voicing. But when you put a real mic in front of a real 5150iii 100w with cab everything changes…. The way I dial mine every chug is a headbutt to the face. Out of curiosity I will keep trying the digital tones the best one I’ve come across is the soldano by neural.
real thing always
Hi Jon! Can you try mvave tank g? This unit can do profiles and its super cheap 😅
All of these sound great, and as a Quad Cortex man myself, I'll always have a little bit of a bias in favor of it lol. I do think the actual amp sounds best, but it's really in that final 5 or 10% of how it handles the high end and the grind. It's great to hear Fender finally nail the EVH thing though, was a shame how bad it was previously.
Honestly I hear the DNA of the EVH in the Tone Master but the Tone Master is missing depth and sounds kind of one dimensional to the real amp. Please advise.
I'm just impressed at how big of a leap the model has made. It's not 100% but sooo much better than it was before
@@SonicDriveStudio Absolutely true. Technology has come a long way since I was a teenager in the 80's. I wish I had it all this back then. Better late than never at age 57
Now is better for sure. Amp sims are still more midrangey than real amp, but not as in previous demo. But. It would be fair to compare amp sims to combination of amp and cab together, not by using Ir on the real amp. While ir should be captured from this particular cab without mic position change. The point here is that the cab and speaker have dynamic characteristics too.
I know this video is an amp comparison, but goddamn do the Aftermath’s sound good! I absolutely love the set I have in my Ibanez
I’d be interested in which modeler is the most accurate in a live setting playing through the same cabinet and full range speaker with the same IR. As a gigging guitar player this is more meaningful and telling of how well a modeler can recreate actual amp tones. Great work as always John. Appreciate all of your vids and the work that goes into creating them. Cheers!
i own the axe effects, very very happy with it, nut kudos to fender for really upping things. Folks ask me about how to get my tone but cant afford fractal, this levels the playing field a lot.
Nice to know my Axe-FX III is right on par. Best piece of guitar equipment I've ever bought.
The helix changes the input impedance based on the first block in your chain (or emulates the input impedance, don't know). This has caused differences when routing back in through usb on my side before, although that was quite some time ago. You never know what they are doing in their signal routing that you might be messing up with a great idea 😉. Anyway, sounds at the output is what matters in the end.
Would love to try the IR you used for this, is that available anywhere?
You'd have to buy Mikko 2 but it's an amazing platform!
I heard the Revv Gen Purple in the Helix sounds very similar to the 5150 III, could you shoot them out?
What a nice era to be a guitar player, extremely useful and great tools! these comparisons are getting ridiculously close.
I'm not "married" to any of these brands but I have an Axe Fx III and could not be happier, I'm saving up for a QC though so I can have the best of both worlds plus the portability and captures.
if you didnt tell at the start and lied i doubt many ears would be able to tell, but there is a density and realism about a real electric amp that matters and drives us mad when listening back, that said i sold all my amps to carry a light little shitty amp copy box lol, the blu amp iridium is the best for me its all just too much and ive used modelers since the start but amps before that, love music and peace out
And what about Kemper and Tonex ?
Not included this time as you can see
The real thing is the shit. I can't put my finger on it but there's something to it.
Neural DSP wins hands down in sound and articulation, then the Fender and last Axe-FX
QC ❤
Quad Kotex
SO where do you place the TONEX in this list?
It’s a “modeler” shootout !
@@QuickSticks8771 Yes I know. Thanks.
Surprisingly similar to the real amp. I'm impressed. 😉😈😎
Jon amazing demo and compositions / songs as always, you always give a palette of perspective to think about. I just feel the amp is king. Thank you!
What? No Helix?
it sound the same...BUT the real evh sounf more present on my monitor :D
they all sound great, cant believe the only one that seems noticeably lacking to any degree is the axe fx.
no, it's the speakers and microphones, not the head
I think Tube amps are more for the fun and live playing
TMP was closer than it was before but it still had a top end annoying fizz compared to the others. Crank your speakers and listen to the isolated guitar tracks.
I agree. Still, this was a dramatic improvement.
AFX3 for me
All usable tones but Axe still sounded best to me. Tonemaster and QC sounded similar to eachother and Axe just sounded like the amp.
You have to be aware that the QC and TM uses the 6L6 version while Jon is using the EL34 version.
@chaoschaoforever yeah but as I stated (and as you hopefully can hear) All the EVH red channels can be dialed in to sound extremely similar
@@chaoschaoforever TM and QC just sounded a bit thinner and flatter to me. Not bad, just not as good as the amp and Axe FX. Just my opinion of course.
I’ll probably regret never owning a tube amp but no reason why I have to buy a new one. Pawn shops might have something.
i use this amp on my IK Multimedia Tonex and I love it :D
How does ToneX stacks up to these? Awesome awesome channel
So much time is wasted with modellers. I know, because I have done it. IMO, for what it is worth, particularly if you are gigging; buy a good reliable amp/cab or combo 20W (valve) to 50W; a few good pedals; tweak it to get a sound you like and sits well in the band mix and voila! Get rockin'. Don't waste any more time.
Yet you took the time to comment on a video about the modelers you don’t use 🤔
Out of curiosity, how was the resonance knob on the EL34 set?
Great video brodda
I'm biased but i dig the chainsaw type of sound of fractal so much
That update was a 3 month ish one....this is awesome!
Well now I wanna know where the tonex sits in all of this. Sry John. I know you work your ass off brother. There’s always more right?
So yeah all this highlights is how extremely useful all the major brands sound. This is great.
I compared my EVH to Tonex in another comparison, not too long ago. Sounded great!