Tommy, if you're reading this, my parents were just like you. Hard working, extremely responsible and frugal with money in most ways, very future-oriented and optimizing for security/disasters. My dad was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer at 63 and died within a year. My mom spent 14 years as a widow, refusing to spend money on things that made her unhappy every day, like the color of the deck, or the refrigerator she was pressured into buying that didn't actually work for her. Every time I visited, she complained about things like that but refused to spend money to change them because she thought it was too self-indulgent. In March she was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and had a massive stroke in april. she died in may and left behind 7 million dollars. my siblings and i were in complete shock and i actually have some lingering anger about this. don't think you're immortal, we're all going to die and we REALLY don't know when. please let go of the fear of uncertainty and just enjoy your time with your family.
Condolences. I believe one should adjust expectations down to a minimal lifestyle in old age to counter this. It's hard if your minimal nest egg isn't even in sight yet.. but people who already have over about $1m should really replan and adjust their mindset.
Life lesson: My parent in laws worked and saved their whole life- planned to retire. They both got diagnosed with cancer within 2 months. They both died in their early 60s. I used to think- "When I have money- I'll take them out to a fancy dinner." Now I have the money but I dont have them. My heart is broken. Dont waste time. Make smart decisions but goddamn- LIVE and ENJOY being alive. This is one of my biggest regrets but I hope anyone reading this takes it as sage advice. Dont learn lessons my way.
Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
@ramitsethi it's either a gift or a learned skill that you are able to ever so patiently listen to people bear their soul and resist the temptation to interrupt. This is impressive! Then today, I learnt that you studied psychology, and it all made sense! Keeping changing lives mate!
Oh no, I’m a 43 year old Tommy who can’t quit my job - one more year… one more year… 😂🤦🏼♂️. Great discussion. Thanks all for sharing. Lots of work to be done - to stop work and start spending!
We did 2 weeks in New Zealand. Amazing trip! But don't wait until you can't walk well; it's a very active place: hiking, walking, exploring, zip-lining. So glad we went before my knees give out. And expect to spend more than $20k. Especially for the airfare.
18:09 “You already have the money, the health, a loving partner, you have kids …. YOU WON!!” Hearing this from Ramit Sethi would probably be my biggest achievement in every lifetime…. Thank you for everything you do Ramit! Changing lives out here…. (without being a doctor😂)
@@helena3631 thinking what’s next is actually a healthy way to go about life…but being rich and worrying about buying headphones is absurd and must be called out as nothing better than absurd.
@@helena3631He's not even thinking what is next otherwise he would be planning for it. He doesn't even know the number he can spend without the savings going down. He's mentally stuck and really doesn't want to change.
I relate a lot to Tommy a lot. He seems to base his self worth off of how hard he works. His resistance is not about how much he has in the bank or how much he spends, it’s about his inability to accept he’s done enough and can start to relax now
Tommy: My husband was the healthiest guy I knew! At 66, when going to a formal he was suddenly unable to tie his bowtie. He was concrrned. Two months later he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s. Two years later as it progressed unusually rapidly he was diagnosed with corticobasel syndrome. His body locked up completely and two years later he passed. We had plenty of $$. We had bought our dream sailboat. But we couldn’t stop that disease. Tommy, you need to start spending- add on the new layer Ramit is suggesting. Good luck and enjoy what you have worked so hard for.
My MIL is a huge saver, and has a net worth over $1 million plus a $5K a month pension income in her mid-70s (which is not all spent, so her savings keep growing). Both of her sons are very financially successful. We’ve been telling her recently to start spending her money; we don’t need it and we don’t want it. Go down south for the winter. Buy her dream condo. Travel with friends. Die with zero. Very difficult for someone who still uses the same Tupperware she received as a wedding gift in the early 70s, 😂
@@katierose1893Nah. Even if I was in this situation, I’d still tell mom to spend her money. She worked hard for that money and I don’t need it. I’m still young, I can always make money and save up money to buy a house or maybe even not buy a house and instead do smth else. The last thing I want my parents to do is worry about my financial means.
Tommy is not having a money problem. He’s having an existential problem. He’s afraid of death. I wanted you to ask him about his relationship with his dad. What is unresolved within him that he is too fearful to live full out? Until he resolves it, he will never feel safe enough to spend.
@@ramitsethi you did awesome!! Perhaps he will take the valuable tool of reverse budgeting and it will cause him further exploration into his fears. Everything in divine right timing. Your book is saving my life right now. Btw. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Yes! Totally agree that it sounds like there’s a wounded inner child around money that is driving the bus. Unfortunately, Going deeper into the wound is not the expertise of the host. I wish he had enough insight to tell Tommy that he needs a therapist.
I wish my trauma turned me into a millionaire. Maybe it’s not trauma just a form of conditioning he uses to self soothe. He’s pretty honest that it’s a competition for him and he likes to do it. The act itself doesn’t bother him, he’s apologetic because he understands it’s not socially acceptable.
Covid taught me to not sweat the small stuff. I lingered over buying name brand trash bags for $6 .00 and I was debt free. It’s a journey but I’m getting there. Took two vacations this year and didn’t blink twice.
Man I can relate to Tommy. My net worth isn't in the millions, but I have come to realize I'm living much smaller than I have to. I used to focus on price completely when making decisions and always purchased things when they were on sale. So hard to break these patterns and move price down the list of priorities when buying something. I bought a $130 hoodie that wasn't on sale and love it every time I put it on. I never would have done this a year ago. Oh and it didn't bankrupt me. 😂
I want to get to the point where I can be flexible about being frugal and making purchases for things or experiences that enrich my life. Right now I'm at the point where I have no choice to be frugal but I'm working towards being more financially secure.
Every time Tommy says he doesn't have enough money and Ramit's eyes looks at the other screen (which I am assuming had their numbers), I laughed! This was such a great example of how it is NOT about the numbers. Thank you so much Tommy for your honesty. He was great and and smiled through it all.
About a half hour in and it's a little wild how many money issues seem to come from people not being willing to honestly face the reality of aging and dying. Really good reminder.
YES!!!! Thank you for sharing a more mature couple!!! I was getting a little discouraged seeing all these 20 year olds on the show. Really appreciate diversity in all forms!
I don’t feel like Tommy has a problem with spending necessarily. I actually believe that he has a hard time not being the smartest person in the room. He didn’t think Ramit could teach him anything, and he doesn’t even trust that his own financial guy’s formula is right. If you’re not willing to learn, you won’t make changes. He says he learns hearing new perspectives, but I have a feeling it’s just so he can compare them to his own to verify that he’s still the smartest one in the room.
I agree. I'm at the point in the video where he doesn't want to take his wife's son and girlfriend out for an expensive meal. I think he only thinks the things he wants to spend money on (concerts and an inheritance for *his* kids) are worth it.
It may be hard to believe, but the average person has little better than a 50-50 chance of making it from age 50 to age 70 without dying or incurring a critical illness (cancer, cardiovascular disease, kidney failure, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, etc). Despite improvements to our longevity, there are very real risks surrounding traditional retirement ages that should not be ignored. Tommy may very well have some real longevity risk in his genes to be concerned about, though increased longevity doesn't necessarily equate to disease & disability-free years during all of retirement. While Tommy clearly isn’t a gambler with money, he is content to gamble his time… after all, he’s going to live to 100, right? He feels he has more time than money. There is danger in this mindset as tomorrow isn’t guaranteed. Your health, cognition, and mobility decline as you age no matter who you are. The utility of your money will change as you age to the point where you may not be able to get as much meaning from it. Don’t miss out on too many ‘Go-Go’ years with Caroline. For a precision saver, investor, planner... and optimizer - Tommy should take on the next challenge to optimize the next ~40 years of his life, should he live to 100. How can he efficiently trade his money for meaning, without leaving too much on the table? All that meaning left on the table would be a shame. If he doesn’t have ‘to the dollar’ plans for all that money, every year, every decade of retirement - it is all irrational fear. Travel, concerts, sporting events… that Florida vacation home that will be a MAGNET for their adult children to visit and make memories with them. Build that fictitious budget and just TRY to spend it on experiences. Be realistic about the go-go/slow-go-/no-go phases… travel and entertainment will drastically change in your 70's, 80’s and 90’s. Material things are easy blow money on, but keep thinking about experiences - it will be more difficult than you realize and some experiences only belong in your 60's. Don't miss out on them. Even with average market returns, Tommy and Caroline’s nest egg will become very difficult to spend down with Tommy’s mindset. It will become a run-away, extra-large portfolio ballooning beyond their ability to convert it to meaning in their lifetimes. If their kids don’t need or want their money, despite the fact it makes Tommy ‘feel good’, what’s the point? Memento Mori. (Remember that you have to die).
Thank you, Brad for your comment. This is an eye opener because my husband and I are like Tommy. We spend on certain things like eating out, a couple of vacations a year but very frugal with many other things.
@@supercrazydesi You're welcome. That type of behavior serves an important purpose for many periods in life. Though, it can border on irrational if you have more than enough without any plans to deploy it for meaning in your life. I'm not here to advertise books, but my words and thoughts came from a couple that I've read recently that you may wish to read. "The Essential Retirement Guide" by Frederick Vettese is about the most evidence based scientific approach to retirement planning as one can find. If you have spending qualms surrounding fear of long-term-care for example, it speaks to that, backing up explanations with statistics to understand if the probability justifies you hoarding more than is necessary. "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins is another good one to read, if you are in a position where you are in good financial standing, but are questioning your frugal ways. Don't judge a book by its cover there either, it isn't about lighting money on fire - but really resonates with some of what Ramit talks about in terms of getting closer to understanding your values for a 'Rich Life'. Only you can figure that out, but those two books were really good reads in my mind, as they don't tip-toe around the fragility of life and urge you to spend a little more now, as opposed to over-saving for tomorrow. Be responsible, though also consider the risk in living a life smaller than you could otherwise and if you are on that path.
Tommy when you leave this world, you’re not taking the money with you. Enjoy life and make memories with your family! You worked hard all these years, you deserve to enjoy the fruits of your labor while still budgeting and saving.
THANK YOU for having the podcast on UA-cam now! As you mentioned, being able to see their nonverbal reactions helps us understand their situation more and how you help them move forward.
Tommy seems like a nice guy, while also being a hypocrite. He justifies spending (probably) exuberant amount of money on concerts and sporting events. But won't "allow" Caroline to spend on what she feels she's (in his own words towards his spending) earned, without bitching and complaining about it.
We were planning a big family trip ... My parents (78), me and my kids (19 and 21), my siblings and their kids. COVID hit so we postponed. Well ... my son passed away and instead of him being with us, I spread his ashes in Iceland. Take the fking vacation before it's too late if you can afford it. Tomorrow is not a guarantee.
Tommy is stuck in his ways. Like he's literally stuck in a middle class mindset. Not joking - he probably needs to talk through this with a psychologist to get to the bottom of it.
I haven't finished watching, only at 15 minutes, but as soon as you said he was an entrepreneur, most of his life i was thinking boom. There, it is the classic scarcity mindset of the self employed.
@I Will Teach You To Be Rich because he was using the words i used to. After 30 years, you feel like a big part of your success is based on responsible money mgmt. Spending it without a "5 year plan" suddenly feels like you're being irresponsible. You feel every man hour that went into making that dollar. Every sacrifice, every bit of blood shed.
Is it a US thing that everyone worries about having a pension they can live on? Idk as I’m in Ireland and we (hubby and me) are retired and never had it so good! We get Irish state pension which is probably same as social security in US, (approx €13000 pa each) we pay in during our worklife and get credits for the contributions. Everyone in Ireland gets it, and poor people who didn’t have work contributions get a means tested pension. There’s also numerous other payments for retirees. We get fuel credits off our electricity bill and free TV licence, worth about €600 pa. Then we get free healthcare (docs, hospital, scripts) costing €0. We also get occupational defined benefit pensions from our jobs, neither are massive but more than enough to be comfortable on. As hubby is from a different EU country so he gets 50% of the state pension of that country (as well as the Irish one) and I get a smaller percentage. With paying reduced taxes our take home is more than adequate for our fixed costs and savings and holidays and living. We don’t have the healthcare costs you have in the US and we’ve no student debt, our kids studies to master level cost them about €6k, mine was sponsored by my job, hubby’s was also sponsored by his work, and so we have nothing to payback there. We’re mortgage free too. I am jaw dropped at the US salaries and yet people seem to have no security in old age unless they invest and save millions! Our pensions are guaranteed for life, they’re index linked so go up every year and my occupational pension is linked to my work grade so increases regularly. So we have no financial worries about running out of money. I’m fact I haven’t a clue what my pension pot is as I’m only aware I’ll get it for life. And if I go first my hubby will get about 2/3 of my pension for his lifetime. I find Remit’s podcasts fascinating!
@@Coastpsych_fi99 I guess that’s why many occupational pensions in Ireland are defined contributions rather than defined benefit. I’m lucky that we (hubby and me) have defined benefits. We paid in during work life and get guaranteed index linked (hubby) or grade linked (me). I just got a 7.5% increase which my old grade got, backdated a year. This wasn’t quite inflation level but was the best deal the unions could wrangle from government. There’s another 3.5% coming this year. If inflation rises it might be more. Our state pensions also went up 6% in hubby’s country and 5% in Ireland. So far no worries. Every household in Ireland got €600 credit in 3 tranches this winter for electricity bills to offset energy costs somewhat.
My uncle passed last year. He converted a cinder block chicken coop into living quarters when he was 24 and lived there for 56 years. He died at 80 and left behind $10 million dollars. He always talked about buying a house and finding a wife but he never could do it. He never owned a phone, had a computer, or even had a kitchen. He drove 50 miles each way to trade stocks. I hope it was worth it and what he left behind is used wisely.
First off, thanks to Tommy and Caroline for sharing their finances and emotions in what was clearly an uncomfortable conversation (I mean that in the most positive way!). This was a great discussion Ramit. I really hope that they can find a way to prioritize happiness and worry less about the monetary security (which they already have). As an optimizer, I really empathize with Tommy. It has to be very difficult to unpeel/redefine the part of your identity that made you successful, but it absolutely has to change for both of you to be happy. You earned a sub Ramit!
I truly feel sorry for people like Tommy. If $6 million is enough $6 billion still wouldn't be enough it's never enough for people like him. I truly hope he gets some real help to get over this mindset.
Thank you for this podcast and video, Ramit! (And thank you to this couple who were willing to share their story). I watched (and really enjoyed!) your recent Netflix series but found most of the couples in the series less relatable than these folks. My husband is “the spender” in our marriage and is much more easy-going with money. I am the saver and am extremely anxious and uptight about spending. I relate to Tommy! But over the years, I've come to realize it’s better and healthier to adopt a more moderate and balanced approach. My husband and I have actually learned from each other over the years; we are from opposite ends of the financial spending “spectrum” and as such, have found a sort of balance with each other, learning how to “meet in the middle”. I confess that is it often still a struggle for me to spend....but I know the struggle is emotional and not financial.
So glad I found this podcast. I've felt like I've needed a financial therapist for some time, but cant imagine talking to someone about my debilitating inability to stop saving and start living lest they roll their eyes and play tiny violins. I can absolutely relate to Tommy and the younger FIRE couple with 4.3 mil. A scarcity mentality was branded into me at a formative age and no amount of money is ever gonna make me feel secure. And i take a lot of pride in my frugal identity. As I cross into my second half of life, i realize that money is no longer scarce but time may well be. I liked Caroline's follow up comment about "memories over money" and Ramit's story (from the other couple) about buying sharper clothes in his 20s. I'll never be interested in being a snappy dresser, but i take the point that STARTING from a place of meaning is better now than starting from cost. Thank you for filling a void for those of us struggling to stop hoarding and start living.
It's fascinating how someone can be intelligent enough to make millions but can't do basic math. They could burn 20k/month without even reducing their wealth by a dime, or working ever again. Love your work, Ramit.
Most millionaires don’t become that way thinking like that though. Many are very frugal and enjoy saving. It can often come from a fear of being broke or poor again.
This session really had my wheels turning. I am great at saving, live debt free and live well within my means. I need to work on induing and treating myself.
Tommy, if you're reading this, I feel for you. I understand that you can't know what future catastrophes are ahead. No one does. But what a shame if you misspend the time you are privileged to share with someone you love and who loves you. Take the trip NOW and pay yourself back.
Coming back from vacationing in Latin America, it was so much fun and I got a lot of exercise 😂 But had I waited until I was a senior citizen to go, it would have been either too exhausting or I would have needed so many accommodations that it wouldn't have been nearly as immersive. Go while you have the capacity to go!
He says he wishes he could win the lottery! WOW. I'm speechless. It is fustrating to hear that. And has over 6 million. I wander if he even donates some of his money to a good cause. A very scarcity mindset. So sad.
So glad to see an older couple being interviewed; I listened to the end. You cannot buy time & good health…enjoy yourselves, your family/friends…spend some money on experiences! Italy and New Zealand…go for it! One day perhaps I fly business class, until then I’ll go economy plus!
When I used to prepare for competitive exam (I did it for 3 years) and after I successfully cracked it and made it into institute I wanted, still I was continuously thinking about exam at least for a year.. If doing something for 3 years can make you so much ingrained in you, I can understand what tommy must have gone through. Thanks for sharing this video.
Here is the deal with us “older” folks that have wealth…speaking for myself, I have been frugal all of my working years..lived below my means, not spending on designer clothes and driving a Ford hybrid for the past 8 years..The envy of NO ONE~perfect! Now, there is nothing I really want..no need to impress ..It is hard to change frugal ways…I live a very middle class life even though I would be considered wealthy..I am fulfilled.
This was a bit stressful to watch.The Italy trip can be to celebrate her retirement!! yay! My father has cancer now and one of the things we all talk about is how many great memories we have had together- including trips with spouses and grandkids. These were not big-budget trips, but the memories are truly priceless.
Hi Ramit! Hope this finds you well. I've casually gone through some of your Spotify Podcasts, however, for the first time 10-15 mins into the Podcast I wished if I could somehow "see" you guys talking, and came here just in case you have posted the Episode here. Having gone through each and every second of these ninety mins with my Wife listening to this and calling me Tommy-like (😜jokingly, of-course), here are my two cents: 1. With folded hands - Respect you for your PATIENCE, throughout! 😊🙏 Hallelujah! 🙌🙌🙌 2. Caroline seemed like not knowing her math initially but a lot "sad" throughout most of the call and kinda "relieved" by the end. So happy for her! :) 3. Tommy seemed like a slave of his own thinking, which was certainly and 100% correct-thinking back in the day, which brought him to this "multi-million-dollar" position, however, such an overkill now. However, I felt from 10-15 mins onwards that this thinking is really deep-rooted and not because of his age but some "psychological issue" maybe as a child or seeing his Parents struggle (as, I feel, aptly pointed out by some Love Coach in the comments below). I too wish you'd probably gone there... Anyway... Ramit, wish I could meet you in person bro! 😊 Tommy & Caroline, if you guys are reading this: Wish you guys the best and hope you see "Italy" and "NZ" both, very soon. :) Love from India! 💌 N.
So we’re not gonna say that Tommy is controlling and stubborn and is an asshole to his wife? Ok. This is borderline financial abuse. Caroline might need to separate her retirement funds so she can have some peace and enjoy some of her retirement.
I liked this one a lot. A different perspective from the normal "we make 200K, but spend 250K/yr". I also like that they are older and helps me, someone who is younger, recognize that getting in too deep with investing/saving isn't a good thing.
What a great couple! I feel like they were both open to the discussion. I really appreciated hearing from a more mature family and a second marriage. They were so endearing that I couldn't help but root for them! Caroline's comment about the lottery was dead on. I wish them continued health, happiness and success!
Tommy needs to recognize that 10 years from now, he may not be able to enjoy the money as much as he could now. He may not even be healthy enough to enjoy the money. He has worked so hard all his life for such a time as this, it would be a shame to in return, entirely miss the destination he has been aiming for all along!
@@droiddevx03 I dunno, the older I get, the less I care for expensive things. I see this often. Seniors are frugal and don't need much. A trip to New Zealand at 60 sounds odd.. maybe 55 but now they're too old to enjoy it.
60 isn’t dead! My parents just turned 70 and only started traveling last year and been having so much fun. They do regret not making time to travel sooner because realistically, it will get harder and harder to get around in the next few years. But this couple can still enjoy that trip to New Zealand and more. But they have to do it now.
Good thing that she's agreeable. She could take $3M and the lawyers would get the $0.3M if she felt like it. She could even upgrade to Bluetooth headphones.
Tommy doesn't want to be the first generation of his family to "live the dream". He feels he owes it to his ancestors to worry, but the OPPOSITE is true. He can live it up IN HONOUR OF HIS ANCESTORS, he will be happy. Just mho. 🙏
Tommy better get help. If his wife decides to go live his best life, he’s going to be out 50% of everything- and I don’t blame her. I HOPE she retires and isn’t on an “allowance” - but I would not be surprised if that happens. She’s beyond patient with her husband.
There’s a deeper issue there, it’s not just about saving. He must have grown up poor or lost something at some point in life. I can imagine working so hard but having an anxiety attack whenever you want to rip the fruits of your labor. He needs some therapy to help deal with his fear and anxiety.
This is so powerful, it made me laugh and it made me cry, but more importantly, it made me think. I see myself slowly turning into Tommy, and I want to take a turn towards a rich life asap.
I thought it was really interesting when Tommy said he fears that if he lets himself spend at all, he'll spend too much. I also struggle with this idea sometimes too. I struggle to find balance and not live in extremes all the time, either hoarding 100% percent of my earnings or saying fuck it and spending it all. I wonder where this comes from.
I don't think he knows he's 60. My dad wanted to go to Japan. He died and never went. He put that trip off for years. He was a doctor. He could have gone
You are going to leave $89 million and your kids can make like 2% and make $ 1-2 million in interest, your kids will go out and spend what you cannot-save, invest some, work some, and play some. You don't mind spending on concerts and sports, but when your wife wants to spend on something else it is not okay bc it is not something like a dress that you like. You have a double standard. You could sell the $ 2 million dollar home, buy FL $200k condo and have tons of cash left over.
Did these people not learn anything from what happened during the pandemic? New Zealand closed its borders for 2 years!! Don't assume you can put off that trip until whenever. Do it now, while you're healthy and have the cash. Enjoy yourself; it's later than you think.
Tommy's sentences sound a lot like my patients who live with an eating disorder. In their mind, they are NEVER thin enough. They don't see the ribs and pelvis poking out, they don't see the vertebrae that can be visibly counted. Tommy said something very resounding that he doesn't want to appear or be "soft". Does anyone agree that Tommy works his ass off to feel young and gets huge rewards mentally from being able to physically do his job? Hopefully he realizes that bungee jumping in New Zealand IS what young people do. Young people are also world travelers. Tommy and Caroline could be planning active trips where they hike, bike, or ski. I think Tommy's vacation ideas are of people lying around being lazy, which in his mind is a negative thing. Tommy, your new layer could be WORLD ADVENTURER OR WORLD EXPLORER. Ain't nobody calling those people "soft". Go buy a boat and live on it and sail it to amazing lands!
I wonder if one perspective that Tommy could resonate with is money flow and exchange that we all experience in the world. When you spend $500 in a restaurant it's not just a spend, it's an exchange that lets others earn their money too and get happier as they learn that what they are doing is good and people need it.
What a great episode! Hope he can be able to just relax a bit and enjoy the ONLY thing that he cannot buy or accumulate: his TIME. It's inspiring to see such an accomplished couple and it's a valuable lesson to see that our mentality does not change with more money. We must work on that in spite of it.
Man really entered that gaming state where he gets dopamine from saving money. It's reaaaaally hard to change it. Just like any other addiction. People just don't treat it as such, cause it seems to be a positive addiction. And it is positive, to some extent.
I wish, I saw this as my issue! To have it with no thought or real concern. Life is short Tommy and you cannot take it with you. Enjoy it while you’re still able. The memories you make will be all that remains when you can’t walk and move like you once did. 🙏🏽❤️
I thought I was pretty thrifty and cautious with money. But that part where it’s revealed that Tommy has 3 million in investments/savings, a 2 million dollar house paid off and feels he needs to save $500 per month for a year before he could afford a vacation had me LMFAO. Spend your money dude. What are you waiting for?!?!? You’ll probably make more money or break even from your investments during that trip. Saving money for a trip is what you do when you have a net worth around 5K or 50k. Not 5 million.
I LOVE THIS SOOOOOooo MUCH. It was SO GOOD. Tommy has a great personality and it was cool that he was receptive to Ramit's "financial therapy" session. Loved the name of the accountant on his shoulder 🤣 I'm nowhere near their net worth at the moment but I still found this episode to be very insightful into financial mindsets... and I can definitely apply the concepts of 2 different personalities for decision-making, as most people (including myself) generally seem to have just 1 very dominant view on life.
They’re so cute, this shows how we can all have anxiety surrounding money regardless of the balance in our accounts. I’m curious if they did the trips, I hope they are enjoying their rich life!!
Is it a US thing that everyone worries about having a pension they can live on? Idk as I’m in Ireland and we (hubby and me) are retired and never had it so good! We get Irish state pension which is probably same as social security in US, (approx €13000 pa each) we pay in during our worklife and get credits for the contributions. Everyone in Ireland gets it, and poor people who didn’t have work contributions get a means tested pension. There’s also numerous other payments for retirees. We get fuel credits off our electricity bill and free TV licence, worth about €600 pa. Then we get free healthcare (docs, hospital, scripts) costing €0. We also get occupational defined benefit pensions from our jobs, neither are massive but more than enough to be comfortable on. As hubby is from a different EU country so he gets 50% of the state pension of that country (as well as the Irish one) and I get a smaller percentage. With paying reduced taxes our take home is more than adequate for our fixed costs and savings and holidays and living. We don’t have the healthcare costs you have in the US and we’ve no student debt, our kids studies to master level cost them about €6k, mine was sponsored by my job, hubby’s was also sponsored by his work, and so we have nothing to payback there. We’re mortgage free too. I am jaw dropped at the US salaries and yet people seem to have no security in old age unless they invest and save millions! Our pensions are guaranteed for life, they’re index linked so go up every year and my occupational pension is linked to my work grade so increases regularly. So we have no financial worries about running out of money. I’m fact I haven’t a clue what my pension pot is as I’m only aware I’ll get it for life. And if I go first my hubby will get about 2/3 of my pension for his lifetime. I find Ramit’s podcasts fascinating!
@@ramitsethi I see what you mean, money is political. I have a friend in US who’s also a retired nurse (like me) and has a work pension and will take her social security when she’s 70 and she’s still anxious about healthcare costs being prohibitive. She has Medicare if that’s what retirees get and she had a good workplace pension, but still has to pay hundreds a month towards healthcare and will have Co pays and out of plan if I’m not mistaken. I think it’s very sad so many people in the US don’t want universal healthcare as they wrongly see it as “socialised medicine”, and many don’t want to pay taxes for poor people to have access to healthcare. I’m sure it’s not everyone but they certainly shout the loudest in online forums! Thanks for your insightful podcasts which I’ve enjoyed for the past year or so, not always relevant to European situations with the investments etc but fascinating nonetheless. You’ve great patience with some of the more intransigent clients on your podcasts, I’m shouting at Alexa when you’ve someone on whose worth is in the millions and they won’t go on holiday or buy stuff they want!
Pensions are being removed for many people which means individuals have to plan and fund their own retirement. My mum has a pension and doesn’t know anything about taxes - whereas my generation has to be across it.
My mom is 95 years old and is poor health and is extremely unhappy. She never had money. I look at her and I don’t take on added stress. Happiness is elusive. Money is printed paper as an exchange currency. You put value on that over things that are irreplaceable. Money is useful no doubt. ❤
Start a giving circle or scholarship fund with my friends to invest in the future generation. Travel and take a few classes at a local university for fun.
Pay for help cleaning and organizing my home, combine vacations with visiting , assisting and supporting missionaries, get some expensive health tests done. On a much lower budget we are sta
With a $6 million networth if you can earn a 10% return each year you get $600,000 plus per year. He can afford to live to a 1,000 let alone a 100. All he has to do is leave the money in investments.
I think at 60 years old people don’t want to change any more, me at 60 years old as an entrepreneur also myself, I will still will be working on what I like but at the time I want to work and I’ll have been do that trip to new Zeland maybe 10 years ago that he’s speaking Becase even if you said he will live until 100+ years old maybe he could no walk or see or hear or anything less jumping of a mountain! As you said before live today and tomorow make money today and tomorow! I’m 27 years old! 👍🏻
Tommy, if you're reading this, my parents were just like you. Hard working, extremely responsible and frugal with money in most ways, very future-oriented and optimizing for security/disasters.
My dad was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer at 63 and died within a year. My mom spent 14 years as a widow, refusing to spend money on things that made her unhappy every day, like the color of the deck, or the refrigerator she was pressured into buying that didn't actually work for her. Every time I visited, she complained about things like that but refused to spend money to change them because she thought it was too self-indulgent.
In March she was diagnosed with stage 4 cancer and had a massive stroke in april. she died in may and left behind 7 million dollars. my siblings and i were in complete shock and i actually have some lingering anger about this.
don't think you're immortal, we're all going to die and we REALLY don't know when. please let go of the fear of uncertainty and just enjoy your time with your family.
I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you for sharing your family's story here.
Such wisdom from a difficult lesson.
that breaks my heart. You can't ever replace your parents, and that void is felt every day.
Condolences. I believe one should adjust expectations down to a minimal lifestyle in old age to counter this. It's hard if your minimal nest egg isn't even in sight yet.. but people who already have over about $1m should really replan and adjust their mindset.
Congrats on becoming a millionaire! (depending on how many siblings you have of course)
“There is no virtue in living a smaller life”. That is a very powerful statement.
Life lesson: My parent in laws worked and saved their whole life- planned to retire. They both got diagnosed with cancer within 2 months. They both died in their early 60s.
I used to think- "When I have money- I'll take them out to a fancy dinner." Now I have the money but I dont have them.
My heart is broken.
Dont waste time. Make smart decisions but goddamn- LIVE and ENJOY being alive.
This is one of my biggest regrets but I hope anyone reading this takes it as sage advice. Dont learn lessons my way.
Everyone needs to hear this.
So true 😢
I lean this lesson when my grandmother passed away 😢
I’m sorry to hear this. Thank you for sharing!
I have the exact same regret when I was at my dad’s funeral. Life is too short to be fearful of uncertainty - because uncertainty is what we all got.
Please remember: These are real people who had the courage to come on my podcast and ask for help. Would you be willing to come on this podcast and share every detail of your financial life? Feel free to leave comments based on what you think, but remember that we are here to help in a supportive way, not to demean and criticize.
Thank you for being on Netflix! You have been an awakening for me!!!! Thank You!!
@ramitsethi it's either a gift or a learned skill that you are able to ever so patiently listen to people bear their soul and resist the temptation to interrupt. This is impressive! Then today, I learnt that you studied psychology, and it all made sense! Keeping changing lives mate!
Oh no, I’m a 43 year old Tommy who can’t quit my job - one more year… one more year… 😂🤦🏼♂️. Great discussion. Thanks all for sharing. Lots of work to be done - to stop work and start spending!
He's been saving his whole working life for this trip to New Zealand. It's time to take the trip! Loved these two
We did 2 weeks in New Zealand. Amazing trip! But don't wait until you can't walk well; it's a very active place: hiking, walking, exploring, zip-lining. So glad we went before my knees give out. And expect to spend more than $20k. Especially for the airfare.
18:09 “You already have the money, the health, a loving partner, you have kids …. YOU WON!!” Hearing this from Ramit Sethi would probably be my biggest achievement in every lifetime…. Thank you for everything you do Ramit! Changing lives out here…. (without being a doctor😂)
He definitely won but he’s always thinking what’s next
@@helena3631 thinking what’s next is actually a healthy way to go about life…but being rich and worrying about buying headphones is absurd and must be called out as nothing better than absurd.
@@helena3631He's not even thinking what is next otherwise he would be planning for it. He doesn't even know the number he can spend without the savings going down. He's mentally stuck and really doesn't want to change.
yes, thank you Ramit!
I relate a lot to Tommy a lot. He seems to base his self worth off of how hard he works. His resistance is not about how much he has in the bank or how much he spends, it’s about his inability to accept he’s done enough and can start to relax now
this is common, fear of running out even when it makes zerrrroooo sense
give me the money. you can keep working. I'll find a way to spend it for you.
Tommy, you need to live now. Every single day is gift. Live your life!!
Sincerely, a hospice nurse in Florida.
Tommy: My husband was the healthiest guy I knew! At 66, when going to a formal he was suddenly unable to tie his bowtie. He was concrrned. Two months later he was diagnosed with Parkinson’s. Two years later as it progressed unusually rapidly he was diagnosed with corticobasel syndrome. His body locked up completely and two years later he passed. We had plenty of $$. We had bought our dream sailboat. But we couldn’t stop that disease. Tommy, you need to start spending- add on the new layer Ramit is suggesting. Good luck and enjoy what you have worked so hard for.
My MIL is a huge saver, and has a net worth over $1 million plus a $5K a month pension income in her mid-70s (which is not all spent, so her savings keep growing). Both of her sons are very financially successful. We’ve been telling her recently to start spending her money; we don’t need it and we don’t want it. Go down south for the winter. Buy her dream condo. Travel with friends. Die with zero. Very difficult for someone who still uses the same Tupperware she received as a wedding gift in the early 70s, 😂
Isn't the housing market crushing you though? I think helping children who didn't buy pre-2017 is a good option.
I think you should encourage her, maybe take a family trip together or go on a fund experience with her so she gets a taste for it...
@@katierose1893Nah. Even if I was in this situation, I’d still tell mom to spend her money. She worked hard for that money and I don’t need it.
I’m still young, I can always make money and save up money to buy a house or maybe even not buy a house and instead do smth else. The last thing I want my parents to do is worry about my financial means.
Dang! That Tupperware is older than me😂🤦♀️
It's hard to change a life of habits. She has the money because of her habits
Tommy is not having a money problem. He’s having an existential problem. He’s afraid of death. I wanted you to ask him about his relationship with his dad. What is unresolved within him that he is too fearful to live full out? Until he resolves it, he will never feel safe enough to spend.
This is an excellent comment. I wish I'd dug in deeper there
@@ramitsethi you did awesome!! Perhaps he will take the valuable tool of reverse budgeting and it will cause him further exploration into his fears. Everything in divine right timing. Your book is saving my life right now. Btw. 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾
Yh there’s most likely some trauma there
Exactly what I gleaned from this conversation as well.
It's natural to fear death though
Tommy needs a therapist to work thru that trauma / fear. End of story.
Yes! Totally agree that it sounds like there’s a wounded inner child around money that is driving the bus. Unfortunately, Going deeper into the wound is not the expertise of the host. I wish he had enough insight to tell Tommy that he needs a therapist.
I get it. I was poor as a kid. Seeing my savings is addictive. I feel control and power I never had as a starving child
I wish my trauma turned me into a millionaire. Maybe it’s not trauma just a form of conditioning he uses to self soothe. He’s pretty honest that it’s a competition for him and he likes to do it. The act itself doesn’t bother him, he’s apologetic because he understands it’s not socially acceptable.
And you need that $6 million that he has. End of story
@@EpicLoveInstituteq❤
Covid taught me to not sweat the small stuff. I lingered over buying name brand trash bags for $6 .00 and I was debt free. It’s a journey but I’m getting there. Took two vacations this year and didn’t blink twice.
Man I can relate to Tommy. My net worth isn't in the millions, but I have come to realize I'm living much smaller than I have to. I used to focus on price completely when making decisions and always purchased things when they were on sale. So hard to break these patterns and move price down the list of priorities when buying something. I bought a $130 hoodie that wasn't on sale and love it every time I put it on. I never would have done this a year ago. Oh and it didn't bankrupt me. 😂
I want to get to the point where I can be flexible about being frugal and making purchases for things or experiences that enrich my life. Right now I'm at the point where I have no choice to be frugal but I'm working towards being more financially secure.
What do you think helped you change? I'm pretty frugal but will spend on certain things, but I'm more like Tommy than not.
Every time Tommy says he doesn't have enough money and Ramit's eyes looks at the other screen (which I am assuming had their numbers), I laughed! This was such a great example of how it is NOT about the numbers. Thank you so much Tommy for your honesty. He was great and and smiled through it all.
About a half hour in and it's a little wild how many money issues seem to come from people not being willing to honestly face the reality of aging and dying. Really good reminder.
What do you take away from the conversation so far?
The lady is adorable and smiley. Wishing them lots of years of love and happiness.
YES!!!! Thank you for sharing a more mature couple!!! I was getting a little discouraged seeing all these 20 year olds on the show. Really appreciate diversity in all forms!
I don’t feel like Tommy has a problem with spending necessarily. I actually believe that he has a hard time not being the smartest person in the room. He didn’t think Ramit could teach him anything, and he doesn’t even trust that his own financial guy’s formula is right. If you’re not willing to learn, you won’t make changes. He says he learns hearing new perspectives, but I have a feeling it’s just so he can compare them to his own to verify that he’s still the smartest one in the room.
YES. This is exactly it, IMO.
I agree. I'm at the point in the video where he doesn't want to take his wife's son and girlfriend out for an expensive meal. I think he only thinks the things he wants to spend money on (concerts and an inheritance for *his* kids) are worth it.
That feeling of smartest person- sounds like me 😂😂😂
💯
It may be hard to believe, but the average person has little better than a 50-50 chance of making it from age 50 to age 70 without dying or incurring a critical illness (cancer, cardiovascular disease, kidney failure, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s, etc). Despite improvements to our longevity, there are very real risks surrounding traditional retirement ages that should not be ignored. Tommy may very well have some real longevity risk in his genes to be concerned about, though increased longevity doesn't necessarily equate to disease & disability-free years during all of retirement.
While Tommy clearly isn’t a gambler with money, he is content to gamble his time… after all, he’s going to live to 100, right? He feels he has more time than money. There is danger in this mindset as tomorrow isn’t guaranteed. Your health, cognition, and mobility decline as you age no matter who you are. The utility of your money will change as you age to the point where you may not be able to get as much meaning from it. Don’t miss out on too many ‘Go-Go’ years with Caroline.
For a precision saver, investor, planner... and optimizer - Tommy should take on the next challenge to optimize the next ~40 years of his life, should he live to 100. How can he efficiently trade his money for meaning, without leaving too much on the table? All that meaning left on the table would be a shame. If he doesn’t have ‘to the dollar’ plans for all that money, every year, every decade of retirement - it is all irrational fear. Travel, concerts, sporting events… that Florida vacation home that will be a MAGNET for their adult children to visit and make memories with them. Build that fictitious budget and just TRY to spend it on experiences. Be realistic about the go-go/slow-go-/no-go phases… travel and entertainment will drastically change in your 70's, 80’s and 90’s. Material things are easy blow money on, but keep thinking about experiences - it will be more difficult than you realize and some experiences only belong in your 60's. Don't miss out on them.
Even with average market returns, Tommy and Caroline’s nest egg will become very difficult to spend down with Tommy’s mindset. It will become a run-away, extra-large portfolio ballooning beyond their ability to convert it to meaning in their lifetimes. If their kids don’t need or want their money, despite the fact it makes Tommy ‘feel good’, what’s the point? Memento Mori. (Remember that you have to die).
This is such a great comment. A totally different way to rethink risk and gambling. Thanks for leaving it, Brad
I sometimes feel like, people can't grasp death and try to avoid even thinking about it..
Thank you, Brad for your comment. This is an eye opener because my husband and I are like Tommy. We spend on certain things like eating out, a couple of vacations a year but very frugal with many other things.
@@supercrazydesi You're welcome. That type of behavior serves an important purpose for many periods in life. Though, it can border on irrational if you have more than enough without any plans to deploy it for meaning in your life. I'm not here to advertise books, but my words and thoughts came from a couple that I've read recently that you may wish to read. "The Essential Retirement Guide" by Frederick Vettese is about the most evidence based scientific approach to retirement planning as one can find. If you have spending qualms surrounding fear of long-term-care for example, it speaks to that, backing up explanations with statistics to understand if the probability justifies you hoarding more than is necessary. "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins is another good one to read, if you are in a position where you are in good financial standing, but are questioning your frugal ways. Don't judge a book by its cover there either, it isn't about lighting money on fire - but really resonates with some of what Ramit talks about in terms of getting closer to understanding your values for a 'Rich Life'. Only you can figure that out, but those two books were really good reads in my mind, as they don't tip-toe around the fragility of life and urge you to spend a little more now, as opposed to over-saving for tomorrow. Be responsible, though also consider the risk in living a life smaller than you could otherwise and if you are on that path.
Tommy when you leave this world, you’re not taking the money with you. Enjoy life and make memories with your family! You worked hard all these years, you deserve to enjoy the fruits of your labor while still budgeting and saving.
I know that's right
THANK YOU for having the podcast on UA-cam now! As you mentioned, being able to see their nonverbal reactions helps us understand their situation more and how you help them move forward.
You're welcome. People's facial expressions and body language are very telling!
Tommy seems like a nice guy, while also being a hypocrite. He justifies spending (probably) exuberant amount of money on concerts and sporting events. But won't "allow" Caroline to spend on what she feels she's (in his own words towards his spending) earned, without bitching and complaining about it.
We were planning a big family trip ... My parents (78), me and my kids (19 and 21), my siblings and their kids. COVID hit so we postponed. Well ... my son passed away and instead of him being with us, I spread his ashes in Iceland. Take the fking vacation before it's too late if you can afford it. Tomorrow is not a guarantee.
Tommy is stuck in his ways. Like he's literally stuck in a middle class mindset. Not joking - he probably needs to talk through this with a psychologist to get to the bottom of it.
He's just an investor
Most middle class people don't mind spending money. This guy is pathological.
Caroline just wants to go on a nice holiday and have a blowout without Tommy stressing her out 🎉
He needs to practice some generosity. He lives with a closed fist when it comes to money. That’s why he also has a hard time spending it.
I love how much Caroline's face lights up when Tommy just gives enjoying life a bit more thought.
I love how she smiles... when she realizes a moment that he is about to be told exactly what she's been probably saying already
😂😂😂😂
I haven't finished watching, only at 15 minutes, but as soon as you said he was an entrepreneur, most of his life i was thinking boom. There, it is the classic scarcity mindset of the self employed.
That is a good insight
@I Will Teach You To Be Rich because he was using the words i used to. After 30 years, you feel like a big part of your success is based on responsible money mgmt. Spending it without a "5 year plan" suddenly feels like you're being irresponsible. You feel every man hour that went into making that dollar. Every sacrifice, every bit of blood shed.
Is it a US thing that everyone worries about having a pension they can live on? Idk as I’m in Ireland and we (hubby and me) are retired and never had it so good! We get Irish state pension which is probably same as social security in US, (approx €13000 pa each) we pay in during our worklife and get credits for the contributions. Everyone in Ireland gets it, and poor people who didn’t have work contributions get a means tested pension. There’s also numerous other payments for retirees. We get fuel credits off our electricity bill and free TV licence, worth about €600 pa. Then we get free healthcare (docs, hospital, scripts) costing €0. We also get occupational defined benefit pensions from our jobs, neither are massive but more than enough to be comfortable on. As hubby is from a different EU country so he gets 50% of the state pension of that country (as well as the Irish one) and I get a smaller percentage. With paying reduced taxes our take home is more than adequate for our fixed costs and savings and holidays and living. We don’t have the healthcare costs you have in the US and we’ve no student debt, our kids studies to master level cost them about €6k, mine was sponsored by my job, hubby’s was also sponsored by his work, and so we have nothing to payback there. We’re mortgage free too. I am jaw dropped at the US salaries and yet people seem to have no security in old age unless they invest and save millions! Our pensions are guaranteed for life, they’re index linked so go up every year and my occupational pension is linked to my work grade so increases regularly. So we have no financial worries about running out of money. I’m fact I haven’t a clue what my pension pot is as I’m only aware I’ll get it for life. And if I go first my hubby will get about 2/3 of my pension for his lifetime.
I find Remit’s podcasts fascinating!
@@LismoreLady Pensions are increasingly becoming obsolete as they are expensive to maintain as people live longer.
@@Coastpsych_fi99 I guess that’s why many occupational pensions in Ireland are defined contributions rather than defined benefit. I’m lucky that we (hubby and me) have defined benefits. We paid in during work life and get guaranteed index linked (hubby) or grade linked (me). I just got a 7.5% increase which my old grade got, backdated a year. This wasn’t quite inflation level but was the best deal the unions could wrangle from government. There’s another 3.5% coming this year. If inflation rises it might be more. Our state pensions also went up 6% in hubby’s country and 5% in Ireland. So far no worries. Every household in Ireland got €600 credit in 3 tranches this winter for electricity bills to offset energy costs somewhat.
My uncle passed last year. He converted a cinder block chicken coop into living quarters when he was 24 and lived there for 56 years. He died at 80 and left behind $10 million dollars. He always talked about buying a house and finding a wife but he never could do it. He never owned a phone, had a computer, or even had a kitchen. He drove 50 miles each way to trade stocks. I hope it was worth it and what he left behind is used wisely.
First off, thanks to Tommy and Caroline for sharing their finances and emotions in what was clearly an uncomfortable conversation (I mean that in the most positive way!).
This was a great discussion Ramit. I really hope that they can find a way to prioritize happiness and worry less about the monetary security (which they already have).
As an optimizer, I really empathize with Tommy. It has to be very difficult to unpeel/redefine the part of your identity that made you successful, but it absolutely has to change for both of you to be happy.
You earned a sub Ramit!
Thanks for watching and for the thoughtful comment!
Ramits job is hard I realize. He is phenomenal at what he does given the sensitivities of money
I truly feel sorry for people like Tommy. If $6 million is enough $6 billion still wouldn't be enough it's never enough for people like him. I truly hope he gets some real help to get over this mindset.
Thank you for this podcast and video, Ramit! (And thank you to this couple who were willing to share their story). I watched (and really enjoyed!) your recent Netflix series but found most of the couples in the series less relatable than these folks. My husband is “the spender” in our marriage and is much more easy-going with money. I am the saver and am extremely anxious and uptight about spending. I relate to Tommy! But over the years, I've come to realize it’s better and healthier to adopt a more moderate and balanced approach. My husband and I have actually learned from each other over the years; we are from opposite ends of the financial spending “spectrum” and as such, have found a sort of balance with each other, learning how to “meet in the middle”. I confess that is it often still a struggle for me to spend....but I know the struggle is emotional and not financial.
So glad I found this podcast. I've felt like I've needed a financial therapist for some time, but cant imagine talking to someone about my debilitating inability to stop saving and start living lest they roll their eyes and play tiny violins.
I can absolutely relate to Tommy and the younger FIRE couple with 4.3 mil. A scarcity mentality was branded into me at a formative age and no amount of money is ever gonna make me feel secure. And i take a lot of pride in my frugal identity.
As I cross into my second half of life, i realize that money is no longer scarce but time may well be. I liked Caroline's follow up comment about "memories over money" and Ramit's story (from the other couple) about buying sharper clothes in his 20s. I'll never be interested in being a snappy dresser, but i take the point that STARTING from a place of meaning is better now than starting from cost.
Thank you for filling a void for those of us struggling to stop hoarding and start living.
It's fascinating how someone can be intelligent enough to make millions but can't do basic math. They could burn 20k/month without even reducing their wealth by a dime, or working ever again. Love your work, Ramit.
Thanks for watching! But I think all these videos show that money goes far beyond math. It's much, much more about the money psychology.
@@ramitsethi Yep, I was being glib. Of course this guy can do math. But he doesn't believe it.
Most millionaires don’t become that way thinking like that though. Many are very frugal and enjoy saving. It can often come from a fear of being broke or poor again.
Seriously! I definitely have the "skill" of spending money!
You're making a classic mistake thinking that these decisions boil down to one's ability to "do math."
This session really had my wheels turning. I am great at saving, live debt free and live well within my means. I need to work on induing and treating myself.
It would be good to do a follow-up session with Tommy and Caroline a year later.
Tommy, if you're reading this, I feel for you. I understand that you can't know what future catastrophes are ahead. No one does. But what a shame if you misspend the time you are privileged to share with someone you love and who loves you. Take the trip NOW and pay yourself back.
Coming back from vacationing in Latin America, it was so much fun and I got a lot of exercise 😂 But had I waited until I was a senior citizen to go, it would have been either too exhausting or I would have needed so many accommodations that it wouldn't have been nearly as immersive.
Go while you have the capacity to go!
The follow up messages had me rolling! 😂 Great conversation! Thank you to the couples and Ramit for letting us listen in and learn from you!
Glad you enjoyed it!
this is why i prefer ramit sethi vs dave ramsey. dave is too cut throat whereas ramit poses questions and allows the people to decide.
He says he wishes he could win the lottery! WOW. I'm speechless. It is fustrating to hear that. And has over 6 million. I wander if he even donates some of his money to a good cause. A very scarcity mindset. So sad.
He wouldn't part with a penny.
This was a great episode. Really goes to show you how the feeling of being rich is so relative.
Thank you for watching
So glad to see an older couple being interviewed; I listened to the end. You cannot buy time & good health…enjoy yourselves, your family/friends…spend some money on experiences! Italy and New Zealand…go for it! One day perhaps I fly business class, until then I’ll go economy plus!
I fell in love with Caroline's laugh. also Tommy seems like a great guy.
When I used to prepare for competitive exam (I did it for 3 years) and after I successfully cracked it and made it into institute I wanted, still I was continuously thinking about exam at least for a year.. If doing something for 3 years can make you so much ingrained in you, I can understand what tommy must have gone through. Thanks for sharing this video.
Here is the deal with us “older” folks that have wealth…speaking for myself, I have been frugal all of my working years..lived below my means, not spending on designer clothes and driving a Ford hybrid for the past 8 years..The envy of NO ONE~perfect!
Now, there is nothing I really want..no need to impress ..It is hard to change frugal ways…I live a very middle class life even though I would be considered wealthy..I am fulfilled.
This was a bit stressful to watch.The Italy trip can be to celebrate her retirement!! yay! My father has cancer now and one of the things we all talk about is how many great memories we have had together- including trips with spouses and grandkids. These were not big-budget trips, but the memories are truly priceless.
I raised a fuss when my wife wanted to upgrade from wired headphones to Bluetooth. Now I can't believe I used wired headphones. 😂 Worth EVERY PENNY.
Hi Ramit! Hope this finds you well.
I've casually gone through some of your Spotify Podcasts, however, for the first time 10-15 mins into the Podcast I wished if I could somehow "see" you guys talking, and came here just in case you have posted the Episode here.
Having gone through each and every second of these ninety mins with my Wife listening to this and calling me Tommy-like (😜jokingly, of-course), here are my two cents:
1. With folded hands - Respect you for your PATIENCE, throughout! 😊🙏 Hallelujah! 🙌🙌🙌
2. Caroline seemed like not knowing her math initially but a lot "sad" throughout most of the call and kinda "relieved" by the end. So happy for her! :)
3. Tommy seemed like a slave of his own thinking, which was certainly and 100% correct-thinking back in the day, which brought him to this "multi-million-dollar" position, however, such an overkill now. However, I felt from 10-15 mins onwards that this thinking is really deep-rooted and not because of his age but some "psychological issue" maybe as a child or seeing his Parents struggle (as, I feel, aptly pointed out by some Love Coach in the comments below). I too wish you'd probably gone there...
Anyway...
Ramit, wish I could meet you in person bro! 😊
Tommy & Caroline, if you guys are reading this:
Wish you guys the best and hope you see "Italy" and "NZ" both, very soon. :)
Love from India! 💌
N.
Fantastic comment! So happy you came and watched the episode here!
@@ramitsethi 🤗🙏🏼 (Plz check LI DM too)
2023 the year of more Mr. Chill! Wishing you all the best, enjoy your many years of labor and live your rich life to the fullest!
One cancer diagnosis will totally rock your world and change priorities.
So we’re not gonna say that Tommy is controlling and stubborn and is an asshole to his wife? Ok. This is borderline financial abuse. Caroline might need to separate her retirement funds so she can have some peace and enjoy some of her retirement.
I liked this one a lot. A different perspective from the normal "we make 200K, but spend 250K/yr". I also like that they are older and helps me, someone who is younger, recognize that getting in too deep with investing/saving isn't a good thing.
What a great couple! I feel like they were both open to the discussion. I really appreciated hearing from a more mature family and a second marriage. They were so endearing that I couldn't help but root for them! Caroline's comment about the lottery was dead on. I wish them continued health, happiness and success!
Tommy needs to recognize that 10 years from now, he may not be able to enjoy the money as much as he could now. He may not even be healthy enough to enjoy the money. He has worked so hard all his life for such a time as this, it would be a shame to in return, entirely miss the destination he has been aiming for all along!
Quite frankly, 60 is already too old to enjoy it. He might as well just continue on and let his children enjoy it when he passes.
@@droiddevx03 I dunno, the older I get, the less I care for expensive things. I see this often. Seniors are frugal and don't need much. A trip to New Zealand at 60 sounds odd.. maybe 55 but now they're too old to enjoy it.
60 isn’t dead! My parents just turned 70 and only started traveling last year and been having so much fun. They do regret not making time to travel sooner because realistically, it will get harder and harder to get around in the next few years. But this couple can still enjoy that trip to New Zealand and more. But they have to do it now.
@@katierose1893 Not too old, but realistically he has 10 years max. You're physically able, until all of a sudden you aren't.
@@SnowofLight I can't stand these boomers who hoard cash and are so dull as fuck.
Admiration for Tommy. Not an easy forum to address your demons in. There is a reason he has been successful in business, he absolutely backs himself.
Good thing that she's agreeable. She could take $3M and the lawyers would get the $0.3M if she felt like it. She could even upgrade to Bluetooth headphones.
Tommy doesn't want to be the first generation of his family to "live the dream". He feels he owes it to his ancestors to worry, but the OPPOSITE is true.
He can live it up IN HONOUR OF HIS ANCESTORS, he will be happy. Just mho. 🙏
Simply brilliant coaching
Tommy is so nice, and such a catastrophiser... he's my absolute Hero.
Tommy better get help. If his wife decides to go live his best life, he’s going to be out 50% of everything- and I don’t blame her. I HOPE she retires and isn’t on an “allowance” - but I would not be surprised if that happens. She’s beyond patient with her husband.
48:39 Here I talk about how your Conscious Spending Plan and your calendar reflect what season of life you are in. What does yours say about you?
Tommy you won!! Enjoy your life with your wife . Life is precious.
There’s a deeper issue there, it’s not just about saving. He must have grown up poor or lost something at some point in life. I can imagine working so hard but having an anxiety attack whenever you want to rip the fruits of your labor. He needs some therapy to help deal with his fear and anxiety.
Omg, I would like to know what they both do for a living! What kind of business he has, and 13,000 a month income for her! WOW 😮
This is so powerful, it made me laugh and it made me cry, but more importantly, it made me think. I see myself slowly turning into Tommy, and I want to take a turn towards a rich life asap.
I thought it was really interesting when Tommy said he fears that if he lets himself spend at all, he'll spend too much. I also struggle with this idea sometimes too. I struggle to find balance and not live in extremes all the time, either hoarding 100% percent of my earnings or saying fuck it and spending it all. I wonder where this comes from.
I don't think he knows he's 60. My dad wanted to go to Japan. He died and never went. He put that trip off for years. He was a doctor. He could have gone
I just love these two , no disrespect to each other , no one trying to control but he is scared for whatever reason . I wish them luck
You are going to leave $89 million and your kids can make like 2% and make $ 1-2 million in interest, your kids will go out and spend what you cannot-save, invest some, work some, and play some. You don't mind spending on concerts and sports, but when your wife wants to spend on something else it is not okay bc it is not something like a dress that you like. You have a double standard. You could sell the $ 2 million dollar home, buy FL $200k condo and have tons of cash left over.
I don’t understand why he hasn’t calculated a “safe withdrawal rate” off 4 million.
Did these people not learn anything from what happened during the pandemic? New Zealand closed its borders for 2 years!! Don't assume you can put off that trip until whenever. Do it now, while you're healthy and have the cash. Enjoy yourself; it's later than you think.
“Pandemic”
I see bits of myself in Tommy. Thanks Ramit for the crystal ball comment…we can go to far on the savings extreme
Tommy's sentences sound a lot like my patients who live with an eating disorder. In their mind, they are NEVER thin enough. They don't see the ribs and pelvis poking out, they don't see the vertebrae that can be visibly counted. Tommy said something very resounding that he doesn't want to appear or be "soft". Does anyone agree that Tommy works his ass off to feel young and gets huge rewards mentally from being able to physically do his job? Hopefully he realizes that bungee jumping in New Zealand IS what young people do. Young people are also world travelers. Tommy and Caroline could be planning active trips where they hike, bike, or ski. I think Tommy's vacation ideas are of people lying around being lazy, which in his mind is a negative thing. Tommy, your new layer could be WORLD ADVENTURER OR WORLD EXPLORER. Ain't nobody calling those people "soft". Go buy a boat and live on it and sail it to amazing lands!
I wonder if one perspective that Tommy could resonate with is money flow and exchange that we all experience in the world. When you spend $500 in a restaurant it's not just a spend, it's an exchange that lets others earn their money too and get happier as they learn that what they are doing is good and people need it.
I would say Tommy you’ve made it and it’s time for you to enjoy your success.
Great video, and great coaching. Bill Perkins book “Die with Zero” address his mindset head on and makes the case why it’s begs to be examined.
What a great episode! Hope he can be able to just relax a bit and enjoy the ONLY thing that he cannot buy or accumulate: his TIME. It's inspiring to see such an accomplished couple and it's a valuable lesson to see that our mentality does not change with more money. We must work on that in spite of it.
Man really entered that gaming state where he gets dopamine from saving money.
It's reaaaaally hard to change it. Just like any other addiction. People just don't treat it as such, cause it seems to be a positive addiction. And it is positive, to some extent.
I love the UA-cam version but the f..in ads every 5 minutes - no other podcast has this swamping of ads:((( it ruins the interview
UA-cam premium is part of my rich life
@@trmoore0922 lmao 👌
youtube ad blocker
@@trmoore0922 Good one! I am borrowing this line for sure.
Great episode as always, but I'm especially tickled by the excited yoga ball bouncing 😁
Never even noticed it 😂 now I can’t unsee it!
I wish, I saw this as my issue! To have it with no thought or real concern. Life is short Tommy and you cannot take it with you. Enjoy it while you’re still able. The memories you make will be all that remains when you can’t walk and move like you once did. 🙏🏽❤️
Wow Rammit! You are doing amazing work here!! ❤❤❤ Excellent job!
I thought I was pretty thrifty and cautious with money. But that part where it’s revealed that Tommy has 3 million in investments/savings, a 2 million dollar house paid off and feels he needs to save $500 per month for a year before he could afford a vacation had me LMFAO.
Spend your money dude. What are you waiting for?!?!?
You’ll probably make more money or break even from your investments during that trip. Saving money for a trip is what you do when you have a net worth around 5K or 50k. Not 5 million.
This video is exactly what I needed to see.
I LOVE THIS SOOOOOooo MUCH. It was SO GOOD.
Tommy has a great personality and it was cool that he was receptive to Ramit's "financial therapy" session. Loved the name of the accountant on his shoulder 🤣
I'm nowhere near their net worth at the moment but I still found this episode to be very insightful into financial mindsets... and I can definitely apply the concepts of 2 different personalities for decision-making, as most people (including myself) generally seem to have just 1 very dominant view on life.
My dad died when he was 62, still working... he should have enjoyed his time and money more.
They’re so cute, this shows how we can all have anxiety surrounding money regardless of the balance in our accounts. I’m curious if they did the trips, I hope they are enjoying their rich life!!
22:58 Did anyone else catch that. He wants to hold on to every penny by any means possible. Maybe he experienced financial insecurity as a child.
Good observation.
Is it a US thing that everyone worries about having a pension they can live on? Idk as I’m in Ireland and we (hubby and me) are retired and never had it so good! We get Irish state pension which is probably same as social security in US, (approx €13000 pa each) we pay in during our worklife and get credits for the contributions. Everyone in Ireland gets it, and poor people who didn’t have work contributions get a means tested pension. There’s also numerous other payments for retirees. We get fuel credits off our electricity bill and free TV licence, worth about €600 pa. Then we get free healthcare (docs, hospital, scripts) costing €0. We also get occupational defined benefit pensions from our jobs, neither are massive but more than enough to be comfortable on. As hubby is from a different EU country so he gets 50% of the state pension of that country (as well as the Irish one) and I get a smaller percentage. With paying reduced taxes our take home is more than adequate for our fixed costs and savings and holidays and living. We don’t have the healthcare costs you have in the US and we’ve no student debt, our kids studies to master level cost them about €6k, mine was sponsored by my job, hubby’s was also sponsored by his work, and so we have nothing to payback there. We’re mortgage free too. I am jaw dropped at the US salaries and yet people seem to have no security in old age unless they invest and save millions! Our pensions are guaranteed for life, they’re index linked so go up every year and my occupational pension is linked to my work grade so increases regularly. So we have no financial worries about running out of money. I’m fact I haven’t a clue what my pension pot is as I’m only aware I’ll get it for life. And if I go first my hubby will get about 2/3 of my pension for his lifetime.
I find Ramit’s podcasts fascinating!
Aside from older people, very few people in America have pensions. This is a great example of how money is political.
@@ramitsethi I see what you mean, money is political. I have a friend in US who’s also a retired nurse (like me) and has a work pension and will take her social security when she’s 70 and she’s still anxious about healthcare costs being prohibitive. She has Medicare if that’s what retirees get and she had a good workplace pension, but still has to pay hundreds a month towards healthcare and will have Co pays and out of plan if I’m not mistaken. I think it’s very sad so many people in the US don’t want universal healthcare as they wrongly see it as “socialised medicine”, and many don’t want to pay taxes for poor people to have access to healthcare. I’m sure it’s not everyone but they certainly shout the loudest in online forums! Thanks for your insightful podcasts which I’ve enjoyed for the past year or so, not always relevant to European situations with the investments etc but fascinating nonetheless. You’ve great patience with some of the more intransigent clients on your podcasts, I’m shouting at Alexa when you’ve someone on whose worth is in the millions and they won’t go on holiday or buy stuff they want!
Pensions are being removed for many people which means individuals have to plan and fund their own retirement. My mum has a pension and doesn’t know anything about taxes - whereas my generation has to be across it.
My mom is 95 years old and is poor health and is extremely unhappy. She never had money. I look at her and I don’t take on added stress. Happiness is elusive. Money is printed paper as an exchange currency. You put value on that over things that are irreplaceable. Money is useful no doubt. ❤
36:20 Imagine you were in Tommy’s shoes at age 60. What are some meaningful things you would do with your money?
Travel. Working with older adults, the difference even 5 years can make in energy levels and health remind me to use my body now!
Workout, Eat, Travel, Read few hundred book. Repeat. Maybe create calender on what to do on what day. Let somebody else do the biasness
Take family vacations - rent a cabin to spend Christmas and ski, rent a house on the beach to share, visit National Parks
Start a giving circle or scholarship fund with my friends to invest in the future generation. Travel and take a few classes at a local university for fun.
Pay for help cleaning and organizing my home, combine vacations with visiting , assisting and supporting missionaries, get some expensive health tests done.
On a much lower budget we are sta
Somebody needs to help track if he's still alive every 5 years and report back to us.
With a $6 million networth if you can earn a 10% return each year you get $600,000 plus per year. He can afford to live to a 1,000 let alone a 100. All he has to do is leave the money in investments.
I think at 60 years old people don’t want to change any more, me at 60 years old as an entrepreneur also myself, I will still will be working on what I like but at the time I want to work and I’ll have been do that trip to new Zeland maybe 10 years ago that he’s speaking Becase even if you said he will live until 100+ years old maybe he could no walk or see or hear or anything less jumping of a mountain! As you said before live today and tomorow make money today and tomorow! I’m 27 years old! 👍🏻
The eye roll at 1:01:40 had me clutching my pearls
Lesson learned: YOUR NET WORTH IS NOT YOUR SELF WORTH.