Dear Mark, to my eyes what you are doing in this UA-cam channel is truly superb. You have a way of presenting that makes me feel better every time I'm watching one of your videos. Their quality is top notch and I'll always be thankful to you because you provided, provide and will provide such beautiful content for the YT community. Don't stop, the world needs more people like you! Thank you again from an italian enthusiast. Grazie!! Nicola
When I was young and dumb, I needed brakes on my daily driver Miata. And my dumbass bought an expensive set of Hawk HPS pads for a stock 1.6 car that is driven almost entirely on the street. I never liked those pads. Crazy dusty, really noisy and terrible bite unless you got them super hot. I recently swapped to EBC green-stuff which is a street-only pad and it made a massive difference. Initial bite is 100% better. They don't dust as much and they grip just as well cold as they do hot. They don't dust like crazy and they are plenty good enough for spirited driving in a street car. I wish I had this video when I was 18 because it would have made choosing the right pad a lot easier. Don't buy trackable street pads thinking it'll make your vehicle stop better all the time. There is no pad that does everything great. Thank you for this video Mark. Because of your great information, I only bought the pads I needed.
I remember you talked with Matt on the Smoking Tire about how these videos don’t have some of the wider appeal or are too technical, or whatever it was, but I love the videos you do like this. Good work!
Glad this series is back again! Something about you explaining stuff is far easier to digest than Engineering Explained. Maybe it's that silky smooth voice
A D The Goose always uses easy to understand language and provides lots of relatable real world examples. He’s a more engaging speaker too, so its easier to stick with what he is saying.
I talked to one of the head guys at AP once and he mentioned how he was an advocate of grooved/dimpled rotors. Not drilling or slotting all the way through meant they didn't create high stress concentrations (areas more prone to cracking). It's cool to actually see them in use with the ones you had.
This is kind of videos are the reason the internet was created for. This is the kind of video you can't be doing anything else while you are watching or you will loose so many quality information. Congrats for your work. Probably the best automotive vlogger in terms of what really matters(content and the way you communicate).
You clearly know your stuff. Keep up the good work. I hope you won't stop as I got used to your reviews and technical videos so much that I find any other UA-cam car channel lacking in comparison (maybe except Engineering explained).
Prefer this channel. EE sometimes is too theoretical or detailed. This video by comparison provided a concise overview and had great practical examples. I have not seen the basic brake video yet, but I hope it covers the differences between various aspects of braking (bite, brake dissipation, wear) and which components of the brake system influence it in what way (fluid, lines, cooling of rotors in various ways). I'm not an expert by any means but have learnt a lot bt reading articles online or videos like these. Its one of those technical topics that don't get as much attention (except in racing circles) as say how much power an engine makes but it matters so much for track driving, it can't be overstated.
Really enjoy these technical insight videos - they provide a lot of insight to people who throw thousands at brake components without thinking of their applications and the relative performance gains.
The Long John Silver's reference made my day. Thank you for putting so much work into these videos. I love your channel because I can always learn something new.
Soooooo... you've helped me decide on the Type R, and now with the really awesome trifecta (Fundamentals of Braking, All About Brake Pads and Rotors and Performance Car Myths) I'm diligently studying so that when I'll track the CTR, I won't destroy it (or myself). I can't emphasize enough how much you're helping a community so overwhelmed with hype and buzzwords to enjoy that which is dear to us. Oh, and I forgot about the awesome oil video, which I also enjoyed immensely. Especially as the FK8 Type-R comes with 0W20 oil as standard 🤔
Great video as always. For street driving I’m liking the factory Brembo pads on my Chevy SS sedan. I am running the 6 piston Brembo calipers from the C7 Z06 and 2 piece rotors up front, with Motul 600 fluid. The factory pads dust a lot, but they never give up with a good workout, and they aren’t loud. I’m sure at the track the Brembo pads wouldn’t work great, but they’d at least be decent when paired with the good fluid.
Was so excited when I saw I still had 1 more of your videos to catch up on for after work. Did not disappoint!! Thanks for helping me break this monotonous day and like always, I learned something 😀 You're the best.
Just discovered your channel. The tonal sound of your voice, transduced through microphne(s) and other audio equipement and processes, is not in any way unpleasant to my blast traumatized hearing - thank you! Your enunciation and diction are exemplary. The props and graphics provided, were visually sharp and on screen long enough for me to observe adequately. 1440pHD helps my diminished eyesight see more detail - thank you! I'm an elder car guy, who can't do much myself, anymore, but, I still have much interest in civil street performance - vehicular and personnal!
Amazing educational video, as all of your Fine Print series are. This is becoming one of my favorite auto channels. Engineering Explained got some serious competition!
Very Informative. Living In the Hudson Valley within the Appalachian Mountains. My Ford Transit Connect commercial van the front brakes get a workout. My transmission repair shop owner told me NOT to down shift going down long hills. It's cheaper to replace the brakes than the transmission, he told me. Your video is helpful for me to choose the best system for mountain driving. Thanks.
Thank you for creating reference worthy content. There are so many myths in the automotive world. It's nice to see more enthusiasts spending money on slowing down (I'm talking to you, stage 2 wrx fans) but when they buy cross drilled, slotted rotors with Centric pads to daily drive I'm like "yo..."
True....they all depends on your driving habits. And the driving condition environment. This is why its important to know how your vehicles perform in different environmemt and the condition.
More of a comment on the channel in general than this specific video. Love the channel, particularly the fine print series - always able to pick up a nugget of wisdom from those. Your style is great - love the combo of technical knowledge presented with a touch of humor. Keep 'em coming.
Fantastic content for a novice like me. Absolutely worth the watch. Thank you very much! I’m starting my journey towards track driving and this content is awesome.
Another nice one! I like my z1 2-piece setup for the 370z. Shaved off 20lbs from the front and 10lbs from the rear. Somehow they stand up to whatever abuse I can throw at 'em!
Thanks for doing this Mark , it was great and all I can say has already been mentioned before, so I'll just say this Ditto,Ditto,Ditto, because the praise never ends.... great work and so much much more value than these lifestyle car You Tubers.... I hope Google ask some of us to evaluate the value and quality of this video...... because we only need "One Mark" Excellent, no pun intended.
Mr. Goose, your production quality is of the best on UA-cam. I’m impressed by your genuine bias, and that you don’t whore out your opinion on varying products. Keep it up, and always, great video!
In my Excursion that tips the scales over 8000 lbs, I was going through rotors like underwear warping them. Until I tried cryo treated rotors and now have 50k on them with no ill effect. Nice video as usual!
I have a Ridgeline that does the same thing. It's got stock rotors with Hawk LTS pads. I was on the fence about cryo till I read this. I'm going to give it a shot. Thanks for posting.
I appreciate the knowledge. It has taken me a lot of varies articles to find this knowledge. The importance of brake fluid would be another proper video!
I have a 2020 Acura RDX, I do a lot of Spiriting driving mostly local in nyc. I get that spongy brake feel where I have to depress my pedal more to get a full stopping feel. Now I have addressed this with the dealer but they say it’s normal brake feel for this car, that’s not ok with me. Please advise how I can achieve a stiff brake feel. Pad recommendation? Or big brake kit with cross drill rotor?
Really well done overview, the only thing i would disagree with is your opinion about cryo treated rotors. I have experimented with a track car without making any other changes just cryo treated vs non cryo treated and found there was a big difference in rotor wear and cracking. The cryo treated rotors lasted 2-3 times longer with everything else being the same. I did not buy pre treated rotors but used a local company that does this type of treatment, so exact same batch of rotors even. i was very skeptical but after seeing the difference first hand.... Perhaps under certain extremes cryo treating might not be enough to make a big difference, but under certain applications it does help a lot. I mean there is a reason that cryo treating has been around for a long time.
Bless you and your videos Mr geese sir. I'm now looking into the carbotech pads for the 2013 GS 350 I just bought. Looking for the best performing street pad for very spirited driving as whatever the dealer put on I'm thinking may not have enough bite to them.
FYI. I installed HP+ pads on my Atom 3 and it made it much more drivable by substantially lowering the pedal effort and I could approach lock-up; as opposed to being off/on.
Hi, thanks for the great video, and educating me. I'm getting ready to swap out the rotors on my 2017 Honda Ridgeline. It seems as though any car I drive, I manage to warp the rotors. I have done some towing, and pretty heavy hauling in this little truck, and well as doing both through the mountains of Virginia. I'm considering the EBC smooth rotors, with the "green stuff" pads as a replacement. From what I've seen, they cost about 1/3 more, than the Stoptechs, or Powerstops, that are slotted, and drilled. My mechanic said to stay away from drilled rotors, for the same reason you explained. Should I go with the more expensive EBC rotors and pads, or one of the cheaper brands. I don't tow anymore on a regular basis, but I do haul occasionally, and ride in the mountains too. Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
For street driving with occasional spirited runs I prefer drilled rotors for the cooling, I know people hate them due to cracking but I don't track my car and with normal rotors I find they get exceptionally hot and suffer brake fade on those spirited runs. Just putting my 2 cents out there as I stayed away from them for years due to all the internet comments but I'm now a convert as they fit my driving profile really well. I'm even going to try drilled and slotted next time to see if I get extra bite.
@Lapsio They do get clogged that's true but not completely so they're still better than blank rotors. I'm liking my drilled and slotted btw. I've got some basic Mintex pads this time for 1/5th the cost and performance is still there but just requires a bit more pressure and three's only tiny bit of slotted noise and vibration under VERY hard braking.
I use cryo treated rotors (science of speed or Stoptech, don't remember) on my Hawk HP+ pads. I have noticed I am getting sparking under hard braking. Is that an issue that shows an incompatibility between rotor and pad material? Have not noticed any melting of wheel well plastics or paint damage, but just curious if this is a red flag or less than ideal configuration. Braking performance is excellent and this happens on bedded pads only under hard braking.
Not sure how it is in US but in Europe most semi metallic pads are around half of the cost of the ceramic ones , and from all forums seems that semi metallic have higher cold bite then the ceramic ones, most users said that when they brake it's not bitting initially as semi metallic ones , it's more gentle
Brake Fade is a lot worse than it sounds. Oh some fade, whatever. I was like that too Let me explain why it's a nightmare and my experience On the track let's say you are speeding onto a curve. You will want to brake. As you step on the brake pedal it's like hardly any braking is being done. Kind of like ABS in the snow You step on the brake harder, a bit more braking is being done. (the thing is, on the previous turn I had no brake fade, it just suddenly happens) If you are not driving on the limit of what your car can do you will have no issues. Apparently I was not driving at the limit, if I was, It would've been a crash for sure. Brake fade really takes the fun out of racing, so get it straight if you are serious about racing. And I wish for every car enthusiast to never have to experience it. It's just so horrible. It's like a near death experience, blood levels going through the roof, adrenaline pumping in a bad way
Sounds scary. I’ve never had it come on so suddenly. My experience has been the pedal going a bit further each turn and as soon as I notice, i back off. That was in a light car though, so the effects were probably lessened.
Dbn Poldermans if you can interpret the Mu vs. Temperature graphs that’s exactly what they are showing. Below a certain temperature pads will basically not work, above a certain temperature the same applies. The coefficient of friction doesn’t fall off as quickly for some pads, some have a more linear decrease with temperature but may have other trade offs.
Excellent coverage, great visuals mated to structured points about this complex topic and well spoken into the camera as well. Just a dirty limerick here and there to break it up and the laugh driving the Atom in the end to remind the viewer who it is, that they are watching.
Not to be argumentative or contrary, but from my experience with the ceramic pads on my car, they work better at higher temps. I almost rear ended someone trying to stop from 25MPH when the pads were cold. I wasn't following too closely or driving crazy. I was just following along with traffic, trying to slow/stop like everybody else. When the pads get some heat in them, they work pretty good.
Learned a lot...great info. For 2007 Mustang Roust 427r...435Hp... finding conflicting info on OE PADS...unable to find original pad material. Ford internet says organic, or is better to go semi metallic. I like the idea on using ceramic compound. I use the car for pleasure and some spirited driving at times. Your advice will be very appreciated. Thanks, Jose
cryo freezing works for applications where a rotor is almost good enough... my mom's Nissan Quest would constantly warp rotors (well, pulsating pedal, idk if it was warped rotor or some other rotor issue) within a month of new rotors, I got her some cryo rotors off tirerack and the issue went away. idk if it helps with longevity or not...
It might help with cars whose rotors are pretty thin to begin with. My Honda Jazz (Fit) tends to warp rotors as well, more so if you enter corners aggressively under braking, and my local mechanics do see it as a common issue with these cars. Cryogenic treatment may help longevity in cases like ours, but still have to weigh benefit vs cost
Tend to agree. I run track days on my s2000 and wore out stock rotors eventually after about 20 track days, which isn't bad to begin with. But cryo treated rotors of the same size using the same pads seem to wear even better, have not noticed any micro cracks yet. Have not measured diameters mind you, but they seem to wear well. If price difference is not too bad (it wasn't for mine maybe 15% more) I'd say try it for a rotor that's almost good enough for a car that seens some track use. It probably won't cut it for a race car.
Part 3...Should be about ABS tuning. Most road cars (and motorcycles) have conservative ABS thresholds and the ABS intervenes far sooner than an experienced driver (or rider) desires. This was very apparent in my MINI Cooper S and also in my 2017 Mustang GT.
I have a 2017 dodge charger sxt I would like to know what you recommend for brakes pads and rotors i tend to do spirited driving ever so often on back roads.
All your videos have been on point so far, but in this one you were a bit vague some places, I'll add some info on top. Please don't take my word for it and do your own research people. Main purpose of cryotreatment is to remove residual stresses from metal and to improve uniformity of grain boundaries in metal. Bedding in pads allows for ensuring uniform pressure on the contact surface, via pad wear to the topography of the rotor. Also, and you touched on this, filling in the microcracks with pad material to allows for more uniform heat transfer through the rotor surface and therefore avoiding hot spot formation.
Since you seem knowledgeable on the subject, could you explain how bedding in a pad is better in creating a transfer layer compared to just using the pad directly on track? I mean, obviously it is a a safety issue for a track pad not to be bedded in, so it makes sense to do that gradually and before track sessions. But what about those pads that are semi race/street+track like Hawp HP+? Is it the gradual increase of braking force that bedding routines usually have that helps to build up ever more transfer material compared to the less constant and more sporadic nature of regular braking? My HP+ seem fairly easy to bed and the difference of not doing it well seems fairly minor. But I wonder if that is just because it is still a street oriented pad also.
Bedding in pads doesn't mean you have to follow the instructions to the t. The procedure is just a suggestion. It's like cooking, you don't have to follow recipe exactly to get something that tastes good ;) Main goal is to go through several heat cycles, shave off high spots, transfer some brake pad material into rotor surface. There was a number of times when I bedded fresh pads and rotors in during the first session on the track. @@TheChannel1978
+savagegeese Question: 2016 WRX with 40,000 miles has had rotors overheated a few times when driving in the mountains of East Tennessee/Western North Carolina, resulting in some pretty severe vibration. Resurfaced and new, stock pads, and it happens again after a couple of more trips to the mountains. Obviously the stock rotors and pads are inadequate. But I still drive the car around town, so I wouldn’t want to put something that needs a ton of heat to be effective. Probably need a compromise - something that can take quite a bit more heat and abuse for canyon-carving, but still have some decent street characteristics. Suggestions?
You live in a cold area and if you plan to go downhill through mountains you probably need to warm the rotors up by bedding the brakes in before driving on extended periods on those sharp downhills. Or just get a bigger car to handle that kind of braking. Notice how trucks and SUVs speed through that part of the country with less brake fade.
Omar Tinoco First, the problem I’ve described is happening in warm weather. 2nd, the brakes ARE warm. 3rd, a bigger vehicle would still experience these problems if the rotors were incapable of bleeding heat off fast enough, either due to material, construction or being too small for the car/speed/usage type.
He just said that you can't expect to go speeding and braking in the mountains while using organic pads. Just get a pad with a high temperature range. Semi Metallic. But expect to wear into your rotors.
Thank you for a clear and informative video. I have a 2017 VW Passat and am told to use only OEM brakes and rotors, because other brake pads and rotors don't work as well. Of course, they are pricier than other types. Is there really a benefit to buying them from the dealership?
I have an odd problem with the brakes on my 2 year old CX-5 (10,000 miles on it). Over time a narrow ring of brownish-red dirt seems to keep forming on the rear 2 rotors, which make them squeak a bit when using a light touch on the brakes, like moving slow and stopping. This doesn't happen on the front rotors, and doesn't make noise when using the brakes more heavily. This wipes off easily and comes off when I wash the car, but will eventually come back. I do live in an area that is rather dusty, and we do have a lot of clay in the soil here. Is this just simple dirt getting in there or possibly pad problems? Is this common in environments like this, and will this harm anything if not cleaned regularly?
I might make myself look silly here, 0:51 that type of design of pad with the gap in between the pad material, why not use 2 types of material on the pad? Wouldn't that be the best of 2 worlds so to speak? 14:44 I don't think you would want a cracked rotor in any situation? Sorry one more question. This bedding in process, every time you wash your car or it rains doesn't that wash off the layer?
Bedded-in brake material won't wash off the rotor just with water alone. Alcohol, maybe, as that happens with bicycles with disc brakes (and yes you do need to bed those in too for best results), but friction material on car brakes should be hardier even against that.
Hi Mark, thank you for this video, I've been watching your videos for quite some time now and just recently I started to wonder why my brake smell like plastic or some bad smell after a hard breaking on my cx-5. I haven't had any work done to the brake pad or rota it's 2014. the smell goes away after it cools down. should i be concern?
Thats really hard to say, are you sure its brakes? If you are smelling brakes and you are not hard on them you may have a caliper sticking. But thats a very a wild guess.
savagegeese yes definitely brake, only smell it when times I have to slam on the brake just a minute. Before I reach home. Else normal braking I don’t have the burning plastic smell. Guess I will ask on my next service, thanks for responding though
I use Hawk HPS pads with Brembo "blank" rotors on the front of my Acura and you can really feel the better bite once they heat up and they don't make a crazy amount of noise but they dust up like a bastard.
HPS is a fairly mild steet/pad, still mostly street focused. If you go to the HP+ variant it gets more track oriented. You get even more bite at operating temps but the noise (when cold) and dust is stratospheric. I still use them :) My car is a week ender so that's fine.
I got the HPS for a sweet deal from amazon (probably because they were 3 years old with 2015 being the date of manufacturing lol) They are a noticeable step up from your typical autoparts branded ceramic pads and so far have an Amazing pad life if you're daily driving and grip like a beast once they're properly warmed up. I heard a lot of people complain about the HP+ being noisy when cold out which would drive me crazy driving in Canada >.
So since you offered it so nicely, what pads and rotors should i use. I have a 00 Civic ek4 hatchback (~180hp b16a2 n/a ~ 950kg without me 80kg in it) I have upgraded from a 262mm front and 242mm rear to a 282mm front, rear still the same. Rear of course not vented. My front calipers are from an Accord Type R and they are 2 piston. I want to use the car mainly for track driving and a little spirited street driving. But mainly tracks like Nürburgring Spa Hockenheim so real Gran Prix tracks (im from germany) no autocross. I have 2 sets of tires. Street set with yokohama ad08r and a track set with Nankang AR1. What would you recomend?
I doubt you'll get an answer from the Geese himself :) Your upsized fronts should give you plenty of stoppage power. Are you experiencing any issues? I used to run track days in an Integra TypeR DC2 '96. Cooked brakes until I swapped the front rotors and calipers to larger Prelude variants. Staying within Honda is always easiest. What you have done so far sounds good, unless you have issues.
@@TheChannel1978 i havent run it yet. Its just a little track toy with a b16a2. Maybe upgrade to k20 at some point. I allready have the dc2 subframe, lcas and steering rack. Also Cage seats and some other bits.
@@99Lezard99 I think you'll be fine. At 950 kgs that is a light car and you have upsized the fronts already. I know guys running EXTREMELY competitive times in a car like yours and I don't even know if they used upsized rotors. Make sure you get the right pad for your application (endurance is quite different to hill climbs) but I think you will have no trouble whatsoever. Civics are easy to brake like most Hondas, especially stripped ones like yours. If you put a K20 in yours you'll have a missile of a car :) Not sure what that would do to balance though
Time stamps for Mobile:
Index:
00:00 - 00:37 Intro
00:37 - 2:20 Brake Pad Basics and Temperatures
2:20 - 3:28 MU - Coeffient of Friction Chart and Heat Ranges
3:28 - 4:27 Pad Materials - Organic
4:27 - 5:10 Pad Materials - Ceramic
5:10 - 6:21 Pad Materials - Semi Metallic
6:21 - 7:00 Pad Materials - Full Metallic
7:00 - 8:02 Temp Charts and Brake Fade
8:02 - 11:05 What is the Best Brake Pad?
11:05 - 13:08 Brake Rotors Pros and Cons- Vented Blanks
13:08 - 14:00 Slotted Rotors
14:00 - 14:55 Heat Cracks and Heat Checking
14:55 - 16:00 Cross Drilled Rotors
16:00 - 17:39 Cryo Treated Rotors
17:39 - 19:41 Two Piece Rotors and Big Brakes
19:41 - 21:36 Carbon Ceramic Pros and Cons
21:36 Bedding Brakes, Burnishing and Stopping Squeaks
Whatever brake pad and rotor combo GM is using on their Cadillac ATS....is simply amazing.
savage learn from your subscribers comments
I know these more technical videos are not as loved like your other videos, but I really appreciate that you do these. Please keep doing them.
Francisco Garcia has to
Dear Mark, to my eyes what you are doing in this UA-cam channel is truly superb. You have a way of presenting that makes me feel better every time I'm watching one of your videos. Their quality is top notch and I'll always be thankful to you because you provided, provide and will provide such beautiful content for the YT community. Don't stop, the world needs more people like you! Thank you again from an italian enthusiast.
Grazie!!
Nicola
Ditto.
When I was young and dumb, I needed brakes on my daily driver Miata. And my dumbass bought an expensive set of Hawk HPS pads for a stock 1.6 car that is driven almost entirely on the street. I never liked those pads. Crazy dusty, really noisy and terrible bite unless you got them super hot.
I recently swapped to EBC green-stuff which is a street-only pad and it made a massive difference. Initial bite is 100% better. They don't dust as much and they grip just as well cold as they do hot. They don't dust like crazy and they are plenty good enough for spirited driving in a street car. I wish I had this video when I was 18 because it would have made choosing the right pad a lot easier. Don't buy trackable street pads thinking it'll make your vehicle stop better all the time. There is no pad that does everything great.
Thank you for this video Mark. Because of your great information, I only bought the pads I needed.
Love your 100% thorough honesty😂😂😂
Your videos are the cleanest, best pleasure
Why don't you have a seat over there
I remember you talked with Matt on the Smoking Tire about how these videos don’t have some of the wider appeal or are too technical, or whatever it was, but I love the videos you do like this. Good work!
We are in the minority numb nuts, “but I…” 🤦🏻♂️
Glad this series is back again! Something about you explaining stuff is far easier to digest than Engineering Explained. Maybe it's that silky smooth voice
A D The Goose always uses easy to understand language and provides lots of relatable real world examples. He’s a more engaging speaker too, so its easier to stick with what he is saying.
@@bradcomis1066 Also it seems he has lots of experience and hopefully Turbowski puts some of his optimistic experience into these ;)
I'm a mechanic and my teachers never managed to explain everything as good as you did. I wish you were my teacher when I was at school.
The finest quality automotive video entertainment on UA-cam!
I talked to one of the head guys at AP once and he mentioned how he was an advocate of grooved/dimpled rotors. Not drilling or slotting all the way through meant they didn't create high stress concentrations (areas more prone to cracking). It's cool to actually see them in use with the ones you had.
Falling asleep? Are you kidding me. You had my attention 100%. Excellent explanation of the different braking systems. Thanks for sharing with us.
This is kind of videos are the reason the internet was created for. This is the kind of video you can't be doing anything else while you are watching or you will loose so many quality information. Congrats for your work. Probably the best automotive vlogger in terms of what really matters(content and the way you communicate).
You clearly know your stuff. Keep up the good work. I hope you won't stop as I got used to your reviews and technical videos so much that I find any other UA-cam car channel lacking in comparison (maybe except Engineering explained).
Prefer this channel. EE sometimes is too theoretical or detailed. This video by comparison provided a concise overview and had great practical examples. I have not seen the basic brake video yet, but I hope it covers the differences between various aspects of braking (bite, brake dissipation, wear) and which components of the brake system influence it in what way (fluid, lines, cooling of rotors in various ways). I'm not an expert by any means but have learnt a lot bt reading articles online or videos like these. Its one of those technical topics that don't get as much attention (except in racing circles) as say how much power an engine makes but it matters so much for track driving, it can't be overstated.
Really enjoy these technical insight videos - they provide a lot of insight to people who throw thousands at brake components without thinking of their applications and the relative performance gains.
The Long John Silver's reference made my day. Thank you for putting so much work into these videos. I love your channel because I can always learn something new.
19:31 For some cars, there are aftermarket 2 piece brake rotors in the original dimensions, so you do not need to change calipers.
Soooooo... you've helped me decide on the Type R, and now with the really awesome trifecta (Fundamentals of Braking, All About Brake Pads and Rotors and Performance Car Myths) I'm diligently studying so that when I'll track the CTR, I won't destroy it (or myself).
I can't emphasize enough how much you're helping a community so overwhelmed with hype and buzzwords to enjoy that which is dear to us.
Oh, and I forgot about the awesome oil video, which I also enjoyed immensely. Especially as the FK8 Type-R comes with 0W20 oil as standard 🤔
Great video as always. For street driving I’m liking the factory Brembo pads on my Chevy SS sedan. I am running the 6 piston Brembo calipers from the C7 Z06 and 2 piece rotors up front, with Motul 600 fluid. The factory pads dust a lot, but they never give up with a good workout, and they aren’t loud. I’m sure at the track the Brembo pads wouldn’t work great, but they’d at least be decent when paired with the good fluid.
Was so excited when I saw I still had 1 more of your videos to catch up on for after work. Did not disappoint!! Thanks for helping me break this monotonous day and like always, I learned something 😀 You're the best.
Just discovered your channel. The tonal sound of your voice, transduced through microphne(s) and other audio equipement and processes, is not in any way unpleasant to my blast traumatized hearing - thank you! Your enunciation and diction are exemplary. The props and graphics provided, were visually sharp and on screen long enough for me to observe adequately. 1440pHD helps my diminished eyesight see more detail - thank you! I'm an elder car guy, who can't do much myself, anymore, but, I still have much interest in civil street performance - vehicular and personnal!
Amazing educational video, as all of your Fine Print series are. This is becoming one of my favorite auto channels. Engineering Explained got some serious competition!
Very Informative. Living In the Hudson Valley within the Appalachian Mountains. My Ford Transit Connect commercial van the front brakes get a workout. My transmission repair shop owner told me NOT to down shift going down long hills. It's cheaper to replace the brakes than the transmission, he told me. Your video is helpful for me to choose the best system for mountain driving. Thanks.
I know these more technical videos are not as loved like your other videos, but I really appreciate that you do these. Please keep doing them.
Thank you for creating reference worthy content. There are so many myths in the automotive world. It's nice to see more enthusiasts spending money on slowing down (I'm talking to you, stage 2 wrx fans) but when they buy cross drilled, slotted rotors with Centric pads to daily drive I'm like "yo..."
Let’s get this guy more subscribers so we can get more of these videos. I appreciate the work you do, keep it up!
Solid way to start a Saturday. Thanks for the video!
True....they all depends on your driving habits. And the driving condition environment. This is why its important to know how your vehicles perform in different environmemt and the condition.
More of a comment on the channel in general than this specific video. Love the channel, particularly the fine print series - always able to pick up a nugget of wisdom from those. Your style is great - love the combo of technical knowledge presented with a touch of humor. Keep 'em coming.
This is a top tier channel. I love the technical content, don't hold back!
Amazing video thank you so much for existing!👌🙌👍
Fantastic content for a novice like me. Absolutely worth the watch. Thank you very much! I’m starting my journey towards track driving and this content is awesome.
You are knowledgeable and you tell it like it is. Love your videos. Keep them coming!
I really appreciate these fine print, detailed, videos.
All your videos get my like right away and automatically. You have always produced quality videos
Another nice one! I like my z1 2-piece setup for the 370z. Shaved off 20lbs from the front and 10lbs from the rear. Somehow they stand up to whatever abuse I can throw at 'em!
Thank you for the information. This was very easy to understand. You've got a great series of content.
Thanks for doing this Mark , it was great and all I can say has already been mentioned before, so I'll just say this Ditto,Ditto,Ditto, because the praise never ends.... great work and so much much more value than these lifestyle car You Tubers.... I hope Google ask some of us to evaluate the value and quality of this video...... because we only need "One Mark" Excellent, no pun intended.
Mr. Goose, your production quality is of the best on UA-cam. I’m impressed by your genuine bias, and that you don’t whore out your opinion on varying products. Keep it up, and always, great video!
In my Excursion that tips the scales over 8000 lbs, I was going through rotors like underwear warping them. Until I tried cryo treated rotors and now have 50k on them with no ill effect. Nice video as usual!
Eric J. Where did you get those rotors from
@@supernovaa313 Stoptech. I went with the cryo\ slotted. Amazon at the time had the best price.
What pads did you pair them with?
@@TypeVertigo Hawk LTS
I have a Ridgeline that does the same thing. It's got stock rotors with Hawk LTS pads. I was on the fence about cryo till I read this. I'm going to give it a shot. Thanks for posting.
I appreciate the knowledge. It has taken me a lot of varies articles to find this knowledge.
The importance of brake fluid would be another proper video!
Best video I'll watch on brakes and rotors today.
Another outstanding video. That was very helpful. Thank you Mr. Goose!
Great content, certainly not boring, thanks Mark
Always stoked when you upload!
I have a 2020 Acura RDX, I do a lot of Spiriting driving mostly local in nyc. I get that spongy brake feel where I have to depress my pedal more to get a full stopping feel. Now I have addressed this with the dealer but they say it’s normal brake feel for this car, that’s not ok with me. Please advise how I can achieve a stiff brake feel. Pad recommendation? Or big brake kit with cross drill rotor?
It's brake by wire
Really well done overview, the only thing i would disagree with is your opinion about cryo treated rotors. I have experimented with a track car without making any other changes just cryo treated vs non cryo treated and found there was a big difference in rotor wear and cracking. The cryo treated rotors lasted 2-3 times longer with everything else being the same. I did not buy pre treated rotors but used a local company that does this type of treatment, so exact same batch of rotors even.
i was very skeptical but after seeing the difference first hand.... Perhaps under certain extremes cryo treating might not be enough to make a big difference, but under certain applications it does help a lot. I mean there is a reason that cryo treating has been around for a long time.
Bless you and your videos Mr geese sir. I'm now looking into the carbotech pads for the 2013 GS 350 I just bought. Looking for the best performing street pad for very spirited driving as whatever the dealer put on I'm thinking may not have enough bite to them.
Great information on brake pads and rotors. Will you do a follow-up on brake fluids and clear up information on 5.1 or super dot 4 and it's benefits.
Oh, Hi Mark.
I did not hit her!
@@mrsabidji I did Noaht!
You're a Chicken.. Cheep cheep cheep (on a goose video smh 😂)
i fed up with thes warhlhd
FYI. I installed HP+ pads on my Atom 3 and it made it much more drivable by substantially lowering the pedal effort and I could approach lock-up; as opposed to being off/on.
Thank you for a quality video on a topic that is often overlooked
This should have more views, excellent, thank you!
Hi, thanks for the great video, and educating me. I'm getting ready to swap out the rotors on my 2017 Honda Ridgeline. It seems as though any car I drive, I manage to warp the rotors. I have done some towing, and pretty heavy hauling in this little truck, and well as doing both through the mountains of Virginia. I'm considering the EBC smooth rotors, with the "green stuff" pads as a replacement. From what I've seen, they cost about 1/3 more, than the Stoptechs, or Powerstops, that are slotted, and drilled. My mechanic said to stay away from drilled rotors, for the same reason you explained. Should I go with the more expensive EBC rotors and pads, or one of the cheaper brands. I don't tow anymore on a regular basis, but I do haul occasionally, and ride in the mountains too. Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
For street driving with occasional spirited runs I prefer drilled rotors for the cooling, I know people hate them due to cracking but I don't track my car and with normal rotors I find they get exceptionally hot and suffer brake fade on those spirited runs. Just putting my 2 cents out there as I stayed away from them for years due to all the internet comments but I'm now a convert as they fit my driving profile really well. I'm even going to try drilled and slotted next time to see if I get extra bite.
@Lapsio They do get clogged that's true but not completely so they're still better than blank rotors. I'm liking my drilled and slotted btw. I've got some basic Mintex pads this time for 1/5th the cost and performance is still there but just requires a bit more pressure and three's only tiny bit of slotted noise and vibration under VERY hard braking.
Fantastic! Content & delivery: superb!
I use cryo treated rotors (science of speed or Stoptech, don't remember) on my Hawk HP+ pads. I have noticed I am getting sparking under hard braking. Is that an issue that shows an incompatibility between rotor and pad material? Have not noticed any melting of wheel well plastics or paint damage, but just curious if this is a red flag or less than ideal configuration. Braking performance is excellent and this happens on bedded pads only under hard braking.
You didn't bore me to death, very informative video, thanks!
0:25 How does Mr. Geese manage to keep a straight face while simultaneously making a bondage joke and a poop joke?
*HOW!?*
He's good... he's very very good.
he's a sick puppy..
You are a cool guy. I hope you know that.
Not sure how it is in US but in Europe most semi metallic pads are around half of the cost of the ceramic ones , and from all forums seems that semi metallic have higher cold bite then the ceramic ones, most users said that when they brake it's not bitting initially as semi metallic ones , it's more gentle
Brake Fade is a lot worse than it sounds. Oh some fade, whatever. I was like that too
Let me explain why it's a nightmare and my experience
On the track let's say you are speeding onto a curve.
You will want to brake.
As you step on the brake pedal it's like hardly any braking is being done. Kind of like ABS in the snow
You step on the brake harder, a bit more braking is being done.
(the thing is, on the previous turn I had no brake fade, it just suddenly happens)
If you are not driving on the limit of what your car can do you will have no issues.
Apparently I was not driving at the limit, if I was, It would've been a crash for sure.
Brake fade really takes the fun out of racing, so get it straight if you are serious about racing.
And I wish for every car enthusiast to never have to experience it. It's just so horrible. It's like a near death experience, blood levels going through the roof, adrenaline pumping in a bad way
Sounds scary. I’ve never had it come on so suddenly. My experience has been the pedal going a bit further each turn and as soon as I notice, i back off. That was in a light car though, so the effects were probably lessened.
Dbn Poldermans if you can interpret the Mu vs. Temperature graphs that’s exactly what they are showing. Below a certain temperature pads will basically not work, above a certain temperature the same applies. The coefficient of friction doesn’t fall off as quickly for some pads, some have a more linear decrease with temperature but may have other trade offs.
Excellent coverage, great visuals mated to structured points about this complex topic and well spoken into the camera as well. Just a dirty limerick here and there to break it up and the laugh driving the Atom in the end to remind the viewer who it is, that they are watching.
3:54 softer pad material, anti leak and highly absorbent!
Seeing Mark giggling like a little boy while driving the Ariel Atom makes me really happy.
Awesome videos keep it up. I used to watch donut media but they seem to be straying from their humble beginnings. Keep it up guys
Thanks good video.You''re making me a car person. Just what I need : another expensive hobby! I'll keep cost down by buying the Corolla hatchback .
another savagely awesome video! thanks guys
Thank you for taking your time to make this video. Really appreciate it and very informative
Videos is excellent, they are. Thanks for the long form content!
Not to be argumentative or contrary, but from my experience with the ceramic pads on my car, they work better at higher temps. I almost rear ended someone trying to stop from 25MPH when the pads were cold. I wasn't following too closely or driving crazy. I was just following along with traffic, trying to slow/stop like everybody else. When the pads get some heat in them, they work pretty good.
Learned a lot...great info. For 2007 Mustang Roust 427r...435Hp... finding conflicting info on OE PADS...unable to find original pad material. Ford internet says organic, or is better to go semi metallic. I like the idea on using ceramic compound. I use the car for pleasure and some spirited driving at times. Your advice will be very appreciated. Thanks, Jose
cryo freezing works for applications where a rotor is almost good enough... my mom's Nissan Quest would constantly warp rotors (well, pulsating pedal, idk if it was warped rotor or some other rotor issue) within a month of new rotors, I got her some cryo rotors off tirerack and the issue went away. idk if it helps with longevity or not...
It might help with cars whose rotors are pretty thin to begin with. My Honda Jazz (Fit) tends to warp rotors as well, more so if you enter corners aggressively under braking, and my local mechanics do see it as a common issue with these cars. Cryogenic treatment may help longevity in cases like ours, but still have to weigh benefit vs cost
TypeVertigo yup, like I said, when brakes are almost good enough. If you need a significant improvement, it's not gonna work
Tend to agree. I run track days on my s2000 and wore out stock rotors eventually after about 20 track days, which isn't bad to begin with. But cryo treated rotors of the same size using the same pads seem to wear even better, have not noticed any micro cracks yet. Have not measured diameters mind you, but they seem to wear well. If price difference is not too bad (it wasn't for mine maybe 15% more) I'd say try it for a rotor that's almost good enough for a car that seens some track use. It probably won't cut it for a race car.
Sometimes replacing calipers help warping issues
@ 21:35, what is the E-brake brand pictured. I'm assembling a BBK on my allroad & looking for options besides Wilwood... ?
Geese, any idea what the oem Focus RS pads compound? They seem quiet, low-ish on dust and great bite at any temperature.
LoveGod16 I agree.
Best car channel
Part 3...Should be about ABS tuning. Most road cars (and motorcycles) have conservative ABS thresholds and the ABS intervenes far sooner than an experienced driver (or rider) desires. This was very apparent in my MINI Cooper S and also in my 2017 Mustang GT.
Can you tune ABS thresholds?
Only module Bosch ABS COMPETITION is the solution.
I have a 2017 dodge charger sxt I would like to know what you recommend for brakes pads and rotors i tend to do spirited driving ever so often on back roads.
I have been using oreillys brakebestselect ceramic pads on three of my cars and I like them low dust great brake pedal feel and stopping power
Amazing video. Learned a lot!
All your videos have been on point so far, but in this one you were a bit vague some places, I'll add some info on top.
Please don't take my word for it and do your own research people.
Main purpose of cryotreatment is to remove residual stresses from metal and to improve uniformity of grain boundaries in metal.
Bedding in pads allows for ensuring uniform pressure on the contact surface, via pad wear to the topography of the rotor. Also, and you touched on this, filling in the microcracks with pad material to allows for more uniform heat transfer through the rotor surface and therefore avoiding hot spot formation.
Since you seem knowledgeable on the subject, could you explain how bedding in a pad is better in creating a transfer layer compared to just using the pad directly on track? I mean, obviously it is a a safety issue for a track pad not to be bedded in, so it makes sense to do that gradually and before track sessions. But what about those pads that are semi race/street+track like Hawp HP+? Is it the gradual increase of braking force that bedding routines usually have that helps to build up ever more transfer material compared to the less constant and more sporadic nature of regular braking? My HP+ seem fairly easy to bed and the difference of not doing it well seems fairly minor. But I wonder if that is just because it is still a street oriented pad also.
Bedding in pads doesn't mean you have to follow the instructions to the t. The procedure is just a suggestion. It's like cooking, you don't have to follow recipe exactly to get something that tastes good ;) Main goal is to go through several heat cycles, shave off high spots, transfer some brake pad material into rotor surface. There was a number of times when I bedded fresh pads and rotors in during the first session on the track. @@TheChannel1978
Thanks! Would love to learn about drum brakes too!
+savagegeese Question:
2016 WRX with 40,000 miles has had rotors overheated a few times when driving in the mountains of East Tennessee/Western North Carolina, resulting in some pretty severe vibration. Resurfaced and new, stock pads, and it happens again after a couple of more trips to the mountains.
Obviously the stock rotors and pads are inadequate. But I still drive the car around town, so I wouldn’t want to put something that needs a ton of heat to be effective.
Probably need a compromise - something that can take quite a bit more heat and abuse for canyon-carving, but still have some decent street characteristics.
Suggestions?
You live in a cold area and if you plan to go downhill through mountains you probably need to warm the rotors up by bedding the brakes in before driving on extended periods on those sharp downhills. Or just get a bigger car to handle that kind of braking. Notice how trucks and SUVs speed through that part of the country with less brake fade.
Omar Tinoco First, the problem I’ve described is happening in warm weather. 2nd, the brakes ARE warm. 3rd, a bigger vehicle would still experience these problems if the rotors were incapable of bleeding heat off fast enough, either due to material, construction or being too small for the car/speed/usage type.
He just said that you can't expect to go speeding and braking in the mountains while using organic pads. Just get a pad with a high temperature range. Semi Metallic. But expect to wear into your rotors.
2011 g37s sedan with sport brakes. Agressive street no track. Desire strong bite firm pedal. What do you suggest?
Thank you for a clear and informative video. I have a 2017 VW Passat and am told to use only OEM brakes and rotors, because other brake pads and rotors don't work as well. Of course, they are pricier than other types. Is there really a benefit to buying them from the dealership?
To the VW dealer, yes... In reality, it’s a Passat... not much different, brake wise, than a Camry or Sonata.
Cryogenic treatment works great but it does depend on the correct pad. Cracking rotors are more likely caused by uneven heating or cooling
great video! What about rotor ware? They cost a lot more than related pads. what is the best trade off.
Great video as always.
Great material, you know, brakes. thank you so much for all the insight
I have an odd problem with the brakes on my 2 year old CX-5 (10,000 miles on it). Over time a narrow ring of brownish-red dirt seems to keep forming on the rear 2 rotors, which make them squeak a bit when using a light touch on the brakes, like moving slow and stopping. This doesn't happen on the front rotors, and doesn't make noise when using the brakes more heavily. This wipes off easily and comes off when I wash the car, but will eventually come back. I do live in an area that is rather dusty, and we do have a lot of clay in the soil here. Is this just simple dirt getting in there or possibly pad problems? Is this common in environments like this, and will this harm anything if not cleaned regularly?
Check the calipers that normally happens when a rotor has heen grinding and the fluid leaks on to the rims you get an orange type pixie dust
I might make myself look silly here, 0:51 that type of design of pad with the gap in between the pad material, why not use 2 types of material on the pad? Wouldn't that be the best of 2 worlds so to speak?
14:44 I don't think you would want a cracked rotor in any situation?
Sorry one more question. This bedding in process, every time you wash your car or it rains doesn't that wash off the layer?
Bedded-in brake material won't wash off the rotor just with water alone. Alcohol, maybe, as that happens with bicycles with disc brakes (and yes you do need to bed those in too for best results), but friction material on car brakes should be hardier even against that.
Q: what pad put on a 4k Lb street car has the best cold bite / cof but can also be taken to the track on the odd occasion.
Hi Mark, thank you for this video, I've been watching your videos for quite some time now and just recently I started to wonder why my brake smell like plastic or some bad smell after a hard breaking on my cx-5. I haven't had any work done to the brake pad or rota it's 2014. the smell goes away after it cools down. should i be concern?
Thats really hard to say, are you sure its brakes? If you are smelling brakes and you are not hard on them you may have a caliper sticking. But thats a very a wild guess.
savagegeese yes definitely brake, only smell it when times I have to slam on the brake just a minute. Before I reach home.
Else normal braking I don’t have the burning plastic smell. Guess I will ask on my next service, thanks for responding though
Good info. Thanks Mark.
Does your local Long John Silvers serve Pizza , ours down south only have bad seafood, I feel left out
I like my brake pads to be made from sawdust and wd40. Makes the driving experience much more...... Interesting
So what you are saying is you like drum brakes? Soviet Russia is happy to let you buy a car from them :)
@@BreadAndGatorade drum brakes are OK. They last way longer.
@@LawrenceTimme true
Performance brake kits for trucks if you going to a smaller wheel size than OEM? Any companies in that market?
I use Hawk HPS pads with Brembo "blank" rotors on the front of my Acura and you can really feel the better bite once they heat up and they don't make a crazy amount of noise but they dust up like a bastard.
HPS is a fairly mild steet/pad, still mostly street focused. If you go to the HP+ variant it gets more track oriented. You get even more bite at operating temps but the noise (when cold) and dust is stratospheric. I still use them :) My car is a week ender so that's fine.
@@TheChannel1978 I'm usign HP+ on my daily my Daily Miata. I love the way they feel when they warm up but the dust is out of control.
I got the HPS for a sweet deal from amazon (probably because they were 3 years old with 2015 being the date of manufacturing lol) They are a noticeable step up from your typical autoparts branded ceramic pads and so far have an Amazing pad life if you're daily driving and grip like a beast once they're properly warmed up. I heard a lot of people complain about the HP+ being noisy when cold out which would drive me crazy driving in Canada >.
Excellent tips thanks for sharing.
Well done and informative.
So since you offered it so nicely, what pads and rotors should i use. I have a 00 Civic ek4 hatchback (~180hp b16a2 n/a ~ 950kg without me 80kg in it)
I have upgraded from a 262mm front and 242mm rear to a 282mm front, rear still the same. Rear of course not vented. My front calipers are from an Accord Type R and they are 2 piston.
I want to use the car mainly for track driving and a little spirited street driving. But mainly tracks like Nürburgring Spa Hockenheim so real Gran Prix tracks (im from germany) no autocross. I have 2 sets of tires. Street set with yokohama ad08r and a track set with Nankang AR1. What would you recomend?
I doubt you'll get an answer from the Geese himself :) Your upsized fronts should give you plenty of stoppage power. Are you experiencing any issues? I used to run track days in an Integra TypeR DC2 '96. Cooked brakes until I swapped the front rotors and calipers to larger Prelude variants. Staying within Honda is always easiest. What you have done so far sounds good, unless you have issues.
@@TheChannel1978 i havent run it yet. Its just a little track toy with a b16a2. Maybe upgrade to k20 at some point. I allready have the dc2 subframe, lcas and steering rack. Also Cage seats and some other bits.
@@99Lezard99 I think you'll be fine. At 950 kgs that is a light car and you have upsized the fronts already. I know guys running EXTREMELY competitive times in a car like yours and I don't even know if they used upsized rotors. Make sure you get the right pad for your application (endurance is quite different to hill climbs) but I think you will have no trouble whatsoever. Civics are easy to brake like most Hondas, especially stripped ones like yours. If you put a K20 in yours you'll have a missile of a car :) Not sure what that would do to balance though
Great vid! Stop teasing us with the Atom already. :P