Can YOU Hear The Difference?? HARDWARE vs PLUGIN CHALLENGE
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- Опубліковано 9 вер 2019
- Can you hear the difference between ANALOG HARDWARE and PLUGINS? Today Reid Stefan Realest Puppet In The Game is comparing the Neve 1073 to the UAD Neve 1073 plugin also the Tube-Tech CL1B against the new UAD Plugin.
Hardware Vocal Chain
Sony C800g, Neve 1073, Tube-Tech CL1B, Apollo X8
Plugin Vocal Chain
Slate ML-1, Virtual MixRack, UAD Neve 1073, UAD TubeTech CL1B MK2
Blind Test Results:
Option A: Hardware
Option B: Plugins
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#Mixing #Ableton10 #Tutorial
anybody else concerned that this might be a real living puppet running this channel?
Not only that, but I think it started as a way for someone in witness protection to still make a career on UA-cam, yet then in the end the damn puppet got him AND took over! Of all things. 🙄... 🤣👏🏼
@@derekrose3328 LOL!
Concened? No, relieved? Much so!
Yah that girl puppet looked a little to young for him...
lol
What's the difference between plugins and hardware? Couple thousand bucks and hand-wired circuitry? If you can afford a Neve or a Avalon 737 DO IT! But if you can't, don't ever feel like your music is any less than someone that owns it!!! It's not the machine! It's the operator!!!
VERY well said! The FACT of the matter is its the ear NOT the gear! And lets be completely honest the AVERAGE consumer CANNOT tell a difference between the two! 100%
I agree😶
This is not true the difference is very evident and yes the listener can tell listen to underground music quality compared to comercial songs the quality gap is very evident
@@fashionlife5348 na I was with that bs too until I actually got good at mixing and mastering. I used nothing but analog emulations and I swear my stuff sounds better than some of the so called commercial records I hear people always ask where I record I tell them at the house and their like damn that's crazy. Granted my interface and mic and plugin Choices definitely aren't cheap but still I'm not using any outboard gear it really is how you mix and master if you know what you're doing and experiment with different plugins you really can create a great mixing and mastering chain I've done it
@@KeenApollo how you record without outboard gear
I feel like there’s such a noticeable difference between hardware and software. The highend brightness of the actual hardware is incredible
Somehow brighter and still warmer.
In this case the HW is WAY too bright for me. Much preferred the plugin version to tame the 8K; even it was too much.
*Me looking at the menu at the restaurant
Me : so u got no lead vocal sauce?
The Waiter : What?
Me : What?
hahaha that was hilarious, i'm pretty tired, but I straight LOL'd when I read this 🤣
Lol!
I appreciate so much comments like this, that make me laugh out loud unexpectedly. xD
Hardware sounds so much better, wow. The plugins sound much less open and alive. The hardware brings the vocal performance to life the way it rides the transients & the way the top end smooths out. Sounds like a demo vocal vs a polished vocal to my ears. You can say “regular listeners won’t notice” but the way the vocal FEELS from the hardware - you can’t fool the ear into not picking up on the emotion it adds. Just my opinion though
I noticed the same. The transient was not reduced by the plugin. It was not doing its job.
Couldn’t say it better myself
Was option B the hardware for the first test?
Agreed
Of course it sounds better because he matched the settings, not the actual sound. You can totally see that the plugin was reducing even 20 db on some parts while the hardware version never went over 10dbs of reduction. Doesn't look like a fair test at all to me. The Softube CL1B is an amazing plugin for the price but like any digital effect, when you push it too much, it crumbles. You shouldn't compress more than 5-6 dbs anyway on a lead vocal no matter if you are in the analog or digital world and at that amount of GR, the Softube is really amazing. BTW, Serban Ghenea uses CLA76 as his main vocal compressor with GR between 3 and 6 dbs max. You guys knew that? Oh, one more thing - no hardware CL1B unit sounds the same as another and we don't know how the one the Softube team replicated sounds like.
Not super clear but it looked like the plugin had about twice the gain reduction vs hw. So, yeah, vocals will pump then...
I've also noticed that. That would be true if the emulation is perfect and the meter is showing correct values. There are some plugin meters which don't work correctly. On the other side - If the metering is correct, the plugin had 15 dB of compression and the hardware only 7.
I can hear a difference. But it's not going to make me like or dislike a song, either way.
I don’t know. The muddy build on the low mids and the pumping on that tube tech would make me dismiss that song any day if that plugin chain was the final mix choice. Our ears still want to hear things well..
@@CLdwyer there's plenty of well-produced music I can't listen to and would never buy.
Mountain Mirrors - heavy acoustic vibe
I agree with you wholeheartedly. A good song is the origin. But a recording/mixing job is not to fuck it up and good tools that give fast and reliable results prevent those risks. A good song can be ruined. My only investment in analog is in recording. Hard to replace that. Mixing is entirely in the box for the same reason: speediness & reliability of results.
@@CLdwyer Yes are "ears still wan't to hear things well" however YOU are thinking from a producers perspective. I completely agree that us producers can hear that the hardware sound better but do YOU honestly think the average consumer can tell the difference? Because the truth of the matter is THEY CANT! I've NEVER heard one of my friends/family say oh yeah i don't like this song because the sound the plugin gave the vocal. LOL. Cmon lets be honest man.
E L I T E O N T H E B E A T so you’re telling me that people won’t feel the difference between a muddy vocal or one without clarity. That’s bogus. They do. You can accomplish something clear and powerful with plugins or hardware. The hardware is simply about the “time” you save getting there *in the recording phase*. If your levels, dynamics and eq is right straight into the DAW, you don’t really get much better than that. The time and CPU power you save, plus the “finished” sound from the start is worth the pennies spent on good stuff.
Guys at 3:55 Reid is reaching for the Neve with his right hand but in the close-up you can clearly see a left hand turning the knob. Something weird is going and Reid acts like it's nothing. Who is the mysterious third puppet?
O shit conspiracy theory time
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAH
That puppets' name is B-Roll and he lives in cutaway footage lane.
When i think it doesnt get more like a muppet show with epic skills in Ableton than i see this Karra puppet.
I should get more sleep
Love this Channel
I come here just for the puppeteer work....fantastic ....The recording knowledge is icing on the cake..thanks Reid great Channel
Oh man, i think the Intro and the puppet are funny each and every time. Plus The content ist high quality. Win win
so keen to hear the comparison between the analog and software Tube Tech,
My observation.
You get the results you like faster with the analog gear. The plugins actually require you to grind out more time for similar results. Dropping $10.000+ on a signal chain makes recording faster and more desirable **into the DAW** (no fussing around later). The time saved over 10 years with this gear is the difference between albums recorded simply on the basis of time saved. #worthit
Saving for my SSL chain now but that Neve vibe got me very interested :) thanks Reid.
Collins O'Dwyer Hmmm.. they used to say “track on a Neve, mix on an SSL." So I guess you'd better buy both!
Exactly. I like to save time. Time is money.
I went for an SSLsix with a neve 1073lb u87ai works well together!!
You had the plugins set to reduce gain by much more. That's why it was pumping.
Most of these plugins sound great in isolation, it's when you pit them up against their HW equivalents you hear the 3D'ness of the hardware. However, it's kindof the law of diminishing returns, you can get 90% the way with skilful mastery of plugins. Great video!
3D. Depth. Plus working more intuitive and fast. That's all what is still exclusive to hardware. The rest can well be done with plugins, and those come with other great advantages like free routing and total recall.
The plugins sound perfect and don't have any flaws. Those minute flaws in the hardware create character. The vocal with the compression from Analog, had a more realistic feel, while the digital was a little more plastic. Overall, just having one real item at the end of the bus, could be a complete game-changer for digital production.
I feel you, i think a hybrid analog/digital setup is ideal for modern music. Having a handful of carefully selected pieces of hardware and then plugins to make the rest will save your bank for sure haha.
The hardware's changes are so much more transparent. Very impressive. With the plugins you can essentially hear them.
Can you remake this test by actually matching the sound, not the settings? Your hardware unit was reducing a maximum of 10 dbs while the software was doing 20dbs in some parts.
Exactly, this was a flawed test. If a compressor is pumping then that should be an easy fix by engaging the low end sidechain or lowering the input as you said. Hardware units often come out different and maybe it's this hardware that is different from the one Softube modelled for UAD. I've used the UAD TT MII and never got a pumping sound. I actually tried to make it pump but it was virtually impossible. UAD DBX however, try and stop that thing pump!
It could just be that the gainstaging was wrong on the software side, but I agree. Hardly a fair comparison when the sw side was being pushed way past the hw.
That track and mix are bangin! (UAD monitoring via vintage LSR's/12" sub)
I lost it when i saw Reid jamming from behind the UAD plugin, i love this channel.
You could do it the other way around, equalize and compress well in the plugin and then copy the configuration to the hardware
😉
But then the results will be different. 😉👍
Thank you so much for teaching a beginner like me in music production 🎼 .
Surely the plugin can be dialed in to pump less than that while still being aggressive? Thank for the vid!
it can. not wanting to criticize him cuz it's a good video and he makes great material, but the plugin is actually more flexible. i'd love to have the real thing, but the plugin can do stuff the original cannot. ie sidechain low end and a mix control for parallel compression. both are very handy to have.
I have a Neve Genesys with 1073s and I also use the UAD 1073 when I run out of analogue channels. SLIGHT differences, but different.
Let’s be honest with each other. Almost everyone here in the comments if they could easily afford all the hardware, they would buy the hardware.
obviously lmfao thats not the point. its for people who can’t afford it to see what the difference is. if you already have the gear you probably aren’t watching this video unless you’re curious or a fan of reid
If we're smart, we'd want both...I liked how the vst EQ sounded & the vst compressor's saturation sounded better too shocking but I noticed the real EQ had more tight mid range saturation & the real compressor clearly compressed more musically. For the difference in cost, the plugins win the war for me...I have plenty of compressor options that can make up for what the vst compressor cant do.
Aciustica audio mimic the real gears
0:57 That headbanging tho'
how about 10:20
@@Niowiad Lets not get carried away 😄
I have the CL 1B plugin and was very disappointed on how it responds. I working on getting all hardware for my recording vocal chain. My questions is do run slate microphone directly into Apollo or do you use the slate pre amp than add a plugin pre? Thanks
That headbanging at the end gave me life
I've never seen your vids before but love the way you commit with puppet hand matching puppet talking/actions lol. Great stuff, fun way to find your niche. Oh, hardware sounded better. It pushes and distorts better and sounds more 3D. Might not matter in a mix but it def. is audible.
Just stumbled upon this channel and had to check that I didn't do any drugs this morning. Anyway great, creative content. In More and more videos I am watching the hardware is winning by a significant margin. It's when you push it hard that you can really tell. The nice hardware grins happily where then plugins tend to fall apart. I did a vocals test using the CLA 1176(bluey) vs the 1176 hardware clone from mixanalog. I definitely preferred the hardware. It sounds less tubby, more focused, and it grabbed much harder and in a more pleasing way than the plugin did. I am convinced that I need to get 1 good hardware comp and 1 good hardware EQ.
Dude the headbanging makes me happy
Hey man love your videos!
This video was great and answered alot of questions for me!! One thing I wish was it showed the unison tech through UAD console with the ML-1 going through the plugins vs the C800 going through the hardware. I think I would get the software to have as a first step and something to practice on because both together are only 600 (plugins) vs about 5K for a Neve Preamp with EQ and a CL-1B. Buying the plugins IMO is a great first step in an investment towards the hardware
Great video, When it comes to instruments plugins are fine, but having hardware for a frontend for vocals and acoustic guitar is still well worth it. This video confirms it. Also for me, Vocals are the main focus of my music, if your doing electronica or instrumental music maybe it doesn't matter as much.
Thank you for this. I was specifically trying to figure out what to do as far as a CL1B for my hardware 1073 and C800G chain. I'd already concluded that the Softube emulation wouldn't give me the smooth thickness I want from this chain and was looking to see if it was worth shelling out $300 for the UAD2 CL1B plugin while I work a new Tube-Tech into the budget. I still might get the plugin (for use in post) but I'm definitely getting the hardware for tracking. Just needed to hear it side by side one more time. Haven't used a real CL1B in a few years.
Your videos also helped me feel more comfortable with my decision after I ordered my Sony C800G too so thanks for that as well.
the 1073 emulation sounded really really good to me even if it wasn't as bright and smooth, i think that tubetechs richness and and the way its able to deal with the peaks make it a step above the plugin, also i could hear a slightly different colour when the tube tech hardware was used, but all in all they are great plugins no doubt about it, I've been trying to incorporate the tube tech into my vocal chain, but I'm enjoying their LA 2A emulation rn
I definitely liked the hardware chain better. The CL1B is goals for me when it comes to a hardware compressor. One day, one day.
Much less pumping on the hardware for me, the clarity and transparency seemed much better too with a more pleasing high end to my ear on the analogue gear! Great comparison, I like these direct comparisons, great vid
From what I've heard and what I've been told by others, the harder you drive the hardware, the larger the difference you'll hear between analog and software. Tubes and transistors made back in the day were handmade with attention to detail and some materials that aren't available for use anymore. Eventually the plugins might be able to model the saturation/warmth/fullness of high end analog gear, but for now they will have to be second place by a little bit. Then again, there are strengths to both sides
That is a lie and if you can't make it sound good with just plugins you suck and should quit plain and simple.
Incredible difference. Im wondering if you brought the vocal to more of a baseline with some basic compression/limiting, would you be able to render similar results with the plug ins? It seems it was just responding to the transients and peak volume levels? Thoughts? Anyone?
crazy! i enjoyed the plugin more in the blind test wow
You literally have everything i wanted to know about music
I love to know where I can hear all of these songs. I haven't been able to locate a lot of the songs you are mixing. I'd love to listen to them.
I've learned a lot from your videos. A LOT. I'm running the WA47/WA73EQ/WA2A for my primary chain. I tried to match it with the Slate Digital ML-1 to get a good stereo signal from an acoustic guitar. The ML-1 just pales in comparison. I really wanted this to work.
I'm a big fan of the Warm Audio. Do you think it would be worth my time to add the EQP-WA to my rig? Are you a fan of that EQ?
Thanks for the vids.
Hardware will always give you that rich warmness! If you can truly afford it, def go for it!
Partly true.. but as an INVESTMENT Plugins are not that good.. used Hardware can be a very stabile Investment tho
@@guidosc3470 haha I just realized I used the wrong words. my bad! you're right!
Guido Scharmer-Choi I’m confused with what you said.
@@Kemite_Gaming that's because the main comment changed.. x)
fantastic and very interesting! Maybe keep the UAD interface out of the picture next time tough (for the blind A/B)
When you came back out of your DAW, did you go into your 1073 mic pre at line level, then into the tube tech and then back into an aux in your DAW?
Quick Q: To clarify, are you going right into the UAD Interface with the Slate Mic? As in, not using the Slate VMS-ONE preamp? I am considering the UAD setup, and want to know if I can skip the VMS-ONE. Thanks!
7:30 the plugins really sound more muffled and boxed vs hardware open and help the vocal sit much better in the mix.
The more plugins you add in your mix the flatter / boxed you get of course you can get good results in the end but the overall feel remains that Analog is more natural
Another option => send it to analog mastering that will help a lot if you can;t get any hardware
can you do a video on how to set up external compressors, preamps, eq's and switch back and forth on ableton with an external audio effect rack? do you use a patchbay or is everything going into the apollo?
definitely night and day, but the neve 1073 plugin seems like it held its ground the tube tech plugin fell apart on the dynamics and everything sounded darker on the plugin chain which I guess you would expect. would love to see a video where you attempt to make them sound exactly the same using any tricks in the book. Cheers Reid!
@Reid Stefan , Thank you for doing this on request. You are awesome. ☺
Just to know from your experience how does FG-73 fares against hardware in your opinion ?
The pumping effect on the plugins really turned me off haha. I'm still impressed with what plugins can do but ever since I started getting into hardware, I haven't looked back. Still plugins are very useful though. This was a very informative video, thanks!
the plugin is pumping because is reducing 20 db .... the hardware version is reducing only 7 / 10 db. the plugin version is way more sensitive . You can get a decent sound from the pluging actually , but of course if you crank the threshold knob it will sound pumping
Difference is phenomenal with good headphones. Insane
Aside from these comparisons of hardware vs plugins I'd just like to say the song sounds amazing!
U know ur getting wise tips and info if the dude is a puppet some channels I’m not so sure but this channel is a must use
Dope video as usual 🔥 It would be awesome if you sold stems to practice mixing. It’s hard to find good recording artists to mix. You can only do so much with decent vocal performance
Great video!
i noticed theres a mic section and a line section for the neve preamp knob, shouldnt it be in mic? or am I missing something also I noticed the tube tec plugin was hitting up to -20db gain reduction while the hardware was between -10 and -7
If you are using Slate Mic with the apollo, is better to Record everthing clean or is possible to use the Unison option in apollo and then use Slate Mic emulations?
Thankyou Reid for clearing the debate of the lifetime :) TBH if it wasn't for Karra I wouldn't have taken the video seriously and might have skipped it! but you really got it . cheers mate !!!!
i could really get the difference and really had a similar thought in the blind test before you even spoke
Note for beginners : You don't have to use one plugin for multiple use like for instance cutting of low end in pre amp plugin, use another eq for that and let each plugin work at their potential . i know software replica might not bring out like hardware but you can do it with multiple plugins you just need to know your basics . that's it .
Nice video. We don't get enough shootouts like this. I'm actually in the process of debating picking up an affordable tube preamp just to add some character to my tracks, but I won't know how big a difference it makes unless I buy one.
The only meaningful difference to me is that her vocals get louder and don’t sound as smooth and tastefully compressed ok the plugin, it peaks and gets louder. The analog smooths out better .
BUT, is that worth the hardware idk? Because you can simply edit that peak with automation. I really don’t know
I was about to buy a high quality 1176 and I don’t know if that extra money is worth a few minutes editing . Itl be a lil less of a pain but then it’s also a pain to carry around a big compressor with less flexibility . Idk.
I’m a musician for 20 years and people get real carried away with certain tone perspectives. The only relevant thing to me is that volume jump . Isn’t there a waves plugin that can take care of this automatically? I feel like there is
I thoroughly enjoy your content. I only have software and all high end plug ins. I hear the difference in the sound with the hardware but have no clue how to integrate analog gear with my apollo twin in Studio One 4. Can you help?
Is this song ever going to be released? Been waitin like a year.
Why I would love to spend 6k+ on a preamp/eq and compressor (not to mention that you are using a 10k microphone) but the difference is not a big enough for an EVERYDAY listener (not producers and/or engineers) imo if you got 16k+ for a vocal chain go for it but the gap is not worth the price(16k vs 2.3k).
When you put it like that, it's true. To some extent owing the gear has become an ego thing almost.
Having the hardware allows you to burn in that sound. You’ll never have to spare computer resources on a plug-in, and the energy of audio signals going through real electrical circuits adds a level of character that’s hard to recreate accurately.
I have never heard a song called: Justin Bieber feat. Neve Preamp & Cl Compressor. Maybe its a GAS thing ...
Bytheway: Taste comes from listening. Appetit comes from advertising.
@@joshuabrown6256 Yh I can really notice the difference when I'm stoned. However, it's stil a matter of preference.
However if u played this to causal listeners from start to the end. Without telling them, whilst switching the compressors they wouldn't notice. Let's be honest.
Let's see what the plugins *can do*. It would be great to see a video where you first try to make the plugin chain sound great, then after that make the hardware chain match. Not paying attention to settings as much as the sound. What do ya say!? 🤷♂️ Great vid, thanks for sharing.
I've tried that many times. Hardware wins.
I can definitely hear the difference the hardware sounds more open and gives the vocal more definition. It also puts the vocal in a slightly better sonic space. You can still get away with using the plugin and getting a great sound.
That puppet's neck is gotta be super strong to be bobbing like this guys. Hahahahahaha!!
The hardware chain in the end had more clarity and was more alive vs the plugins at those settings. The song is sweet man.
Analog all day. Thanks for the great demonstration. Do you normally record vocals in stereo, if so would you use the same mic?
On a Stretcher Townsend L22 is amazing if you have uad
Nice idea ! Good !
The plugin chain pumping and low end inconsistency is really noticable.
I watch this channel for the headbanging! ;)
I'm glad you really showed this. Because some of these mix engineers can be really misleading some of these younger engineers that work from home. If you want a professional sounding vocal you need to run it through some kind of circuitry. I'm planning on getting some kind of preamp to record vocals with.
Not true. Tony Maserati himself who uses tons of Analog vouches that Tchad Blake can get a beautiful analog sound completely in the box. It is complete barnacles that you need "some kind of circuitry" for a professional sounding vocal. Look at Alex Tumay who mixes Young Thug. You are wrong.
@@Test-ue5po you dont "need" analog gear. But it does speed up the process. I've used both and I can say that having hardware is much faster to get the sound you want.
Can you show us how you connect the C800g to the neve , pre amp , and interface ? Like the setup ?
Did you use the ML-1 Preamp or just the mic straight into the Apollo?
Was the pre amp comparison in the beginning of the video Option A and Option B shown with the same mic ? Towards the end you compared plug in and hardware but using different mics
Did you change out your tubes in the cl1b for different ones? Or are these stock tubes.
I can hear the difference but I think adding another comp could make it pretty close, also using auto with the vl fader to compress less. this show that mixing with plugings is harder than mixing with gears
thanks for the video. ive always liked the hardware but its to expensive for me. so i have that same Apollo that you are using now and waves impact server with horizon bundle and izotope ozone and nectar and art voice channel for mic hardware input and im very happy with results . so i didnt break the bank and im happy with all of this software i could get plus it doesnt take up much room in my studio lol..
Hey Reid, are those your 1073s? I’ve seen in your most current set up you have the vintech?
So if I do two cl1bs in succession on my chain, shouldn't that fix the pumping issue and sound much closer to the HW?
I have tons of hardware are used to go into the daw and I use plug-ins to tweak fine-tuning but having the hardware for sure makes it sound much more pro level
When you add the tube tech plugin with the neve plugins its pumping so hard and it's really noticeable
This is a very compelling and corroborating experiment. The hardware is favored in my opinion.
there is a difference and its easy to notice when its solo'd on 3:15 that switch, its like option had more high to high/mid frequencies, and i dont what im hearing, but it felt like Option A had some Stereo spreader on it cause i felt the vocals pop out more from the side like a background tracker with a stereo spread on it
You use to look Crazy Reid, I’m glad your looking much better these days 😂😂 love ya bro
Damn the hardware is dope! Saucy
I think where I run into problems is when clients of mine have used the UAD apollo to record their own vocals but driven the chip-based pre really HARD and it's much less forgiving than hardware on that front. Some CARE when using the UAD and you can get great results!
Reid do you use the CL1B on drums or the mix buss at all?
vocals only!
Hello, could you help me to get the deep awesome sound of the chorus “dont call me up” of Mabel. I can’t get the proffesional sound... THANK you
By the way.. thank you all the tutorial are help me, I’m a begginer and the sound its getting sound better thanks to your work.
Reid love the videos man. Saucin'. Keep banging em out. No comparison tho when you have an actual Sony C800g and 1073. I used to use this set up all the time at a studio I worked at with an LA2A instead of the TubeTech. Butter baby. But also no one hardware unit sounds the same. Similar of course. I own an ML-1 myself with all the plugs. I'm happy with the sound it gives along with UAD and Slate plugs. But after watching this, maybe Im just getting used to the plugin versions sound. Are you? So easy on a daily basis to pull up. Do you the think the music consumer can really hear the difference? Let me know your thought bro. One of my favorite channels to tune into each week. Peas.
?...Hey what input level you set for you mic with the neve1073...or really any preamp...im getting a lil distortion and not a smooth liquid sound
Great Video!
Rad video, shame about the ads but still great content!
Great video
Superb.
Can you explain why there's twice as much compression happening on the software meter? Seems like it was setup to fail.
this is the first shootout i've seen where i saw a difference that made me want to spend $4000 on the hardware over $150 for the plugin. typically i find most of the emulations do the job well enough but i'm actually kind of surprised by this one
Can you do a paid course on how to record use hardware mix master in abelton live 10
Can’t wait.