Judge Rinder on propaganda and the language of newspapers | LBC
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- Опубліковано 7 лип 2023
- Broadcaster, criminal barrister, columnist and now novelist, Rob Rinder joins James O'Brien for Full Disclosure.
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The sad thing about now is that these aren't children who are being convinced by propaganda it's grown adults that are over 40, use Facebook & UA-cam as primary sources online.
Our kids got the message "don't believe everything you see online" but the parents didn't it seems.
No, the younger generations are picking it up too I’m afraid most definitely 😕
And don’t get me started about online gullibility; I still can’t believe after 20 odd years of warnings people my age (& younger!!!) are still getting conned etc, it’s absolutely mental 🤬
There's a real problem of Internet illiteracy in the older generations
@@lordvadertheleftie9703. The older generations still believe in honest politicians who tell the truth and do nothing illegal
Bless!
Conservative is the party for adults, business and taking on the MAN….!
They’re terrorist
Stopped reading the majority of UK newspapers years ago, they're not even a substitute for toilet paper as the print smears.
Very well argued. Open your eyes Britain.
......yep...the level of immigration is unsustainable...totally agree.
@@chatham43the level of greed and corruption is unsustainable
@@chatham43Very few of the problems blamed on immigration are actually the fault of immigration.
@@chatham43 Also, it has been popular to blame these problems on immigration for the last 10 years (at least). Has that helped? Has it helped to solve the problems? No, it is just an easy answer for people who like to hide from real truth, that corruption and greed is the real problem. "Noooo, blame the immigrants!".
You're watching LBC.
On the topic of people being poisoned by propaganda, I think it was Bertrand Russell who said that "most men would rather die than think. In fact, most men do."
OMG, isn't that the truth!🤦♀️
Wow that's a gut punch of truth from Robert Rinder 💜💜💜 a warning to all about avoiding complacency and choosing the right path to protect our future from an awful end to our current story and journey that we are on. Heroes and monsters are just people and we need to be careful what ideology we support - vote nice always I think!!!
👍🙏
"Vote Nice" - you are soooooo right! Never vote for the obvious nasty parties.
@@marylynch951And doing the right thing is so valuable that it costs us less in the long run.
Oligarchy is the new monster
@@robertjsmith Very much so. The dead hand of shareholder owned corporations too
Well said Robert Rinder. All to often, people go about their lives failing to see things going on around them, failing to see the wood for the trees, then bam! something totally, incomprehensibly bad happens and, oh dear, the time for taking action to prevent the bad event happening has gone. Many of our hard won fundamental rights and freedoms are ever so slowly and carefully being stripped away and we are all the poorer for the loss.
Well actually for most of history no one had any rights at all.
True in part Alan. It is also true however that as time has moved on, we are supposed to have made progress. Our ancestors have fought wars and participated in internal protests to make progress I'm thinking not only of the two world wars but things like the Peterloo masacre, the Jarrow marchers and of course the sufferaget's. More recently there was the poll tax riots. Times when ordinary people have stood up and been counted or engaged in civil disobedience to make positive change for everyone. Having made that progress, it would be quite silly to let our rights and fundamental freedoms be stripped away because we are sleeping, caught with our proverbial trousers down🥴🥴🥴
Who?
Don't try to impose your agenda on me.
@@ppo2424 Having read and re read the posts here, I can't say anybody is trying to impose an agenda which actually makes me wonder what the point of your post is???
Robert Rinder is right. So disturbing that so many people still can’t see they are being groomed and manipulated
...a little bit harsh on the guardian but I get your drift.
Mainly by the BBC
James obrien convinced you it was OK for tenmill people to invade our country
James obrien convinced you the fourth r3 1ch was a "trading body"
@iociccio936 ah, its in caps so must be true 👍
Never again is such a meaningless statement when we’re asleep at the wheel. As he said it didn’t start with the gas chambers, it started with dehumanising people and that has happened again in this country.
And our ministers paint over murals of cartoons for children...
@@matthewsmith3592 Rinder talks baloney
@@matthewsmith3592 I wish it were but it has been confirmed by many sources including the home office.
@matthewsmith3592 that is a strange position to take given that the tories are in power. Issuing false statements to the press would be instantly disciplined if the minister wanted it to be.
...except they didn't...😊
@@chatham43 do you have a source for that assertion?
Brilliant commentary. Thankyou James and Rob.
Being a person who has not always acted well, I recognise the drive to consider your own actions as justified, which allows for scapegoating and self pity. Robert Rinder has become a voice of reason in our society and I can't help thinking he would make a great PM no matter which party he chose to run for. Common, human decency is what we are missing in the present administration, and he has it in spades.
Did you get convinced the fourth r3 1ch is a "trading body"
Still think it is after she took bell fast and key yev?
I found myself nodding continuously, so many truths, love both these guy’s
Worth listening to the whole podcast.
One of the most interesting podcast of the year . Thank you
Small note on the book judge Rinder recommended. The full title is “Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland”. The author is Christopher R. Browning according to Goodreads, not Ian Browning.
I had to check that too. I'm now tracking down a copy.
Browning quotes Ian Kershaw in the book, I think that's where the Ian comes from. Perhaps Rinder also quotes Kershaw from this source.
In Ian Kershaw’s words, which Browning quotes in the afterword to Ordinary Men, “the road to Auschwitz was built by hate, but paved with indifference”.
@@robinmoore3649 What a spot on quote. Truer words never spoken.
Thank you 😊 that’s helpful
And not to be confused with the much more commercially successful book by Daniel Goldhagen, "Hitler's Willing Executioners", which is often placed on reading lists but was panned by academics for misrepresenting archival sources and twisting historical fact. Ordinary Men by Christopher Browning is not as well known, but is a much better source of information about this topic.
He’s absolutely spot on unfortunately 😐
Ordinary men is a brilliant book. I recall Major Von Tropp explaining to 500 men what they intended to do and he offered that he would send back those that objected and as I recall only 12 stood forward.
Absolutely spot on, Propaganda poisons the mind
...except when you agree with it....😊
A very interesting and knowledgeable person
Gods and demons live with in us
No light without darkness
I think when he was inferring is that these are human traits and have nothing to do with religion which is what you seem to think.
Man’s Inhumanity to Man
Many and sharp the numerous ills
Inwoven in our frame
More pointed still we make ourselves
Regret remorse and shame
And man who’s heaven erected face
The smiles of love adorn
Man’s inhumanity to man
Makes countless thousands mourn
Robert Burns
Thank you for sharing this, very poignant!❤️
James `Paint-drying` OBrien is always a sincere and riveting listen.
1940s Germany, have we learnt anything?
I can`t wait for his thoughts on 2020s Leicester, Rochdale etc etc
Why isn't Robert Rinder an MP? Finally, somebody who understands the role the media in the opinions of the over 40s in UK. And someone who uses his profile to say it's ok to use your critical thinking skills and stand up & be counted. It's the older generation who have lost this. Go Judge, go!
Because the entirety of msm media is just a right wing propaganda machine, which would swivel like the eye of sauron, to focus on and try to destroy his campaign with lies and dis information. Can't have someone being elected who wants to put and end to the funnelling of cash / power to the elites.
My guess is the political machine does not want the likes of Robert Rinder & Judith Sheindlin straight talking common sense.
@@russcattell955ithat’s why he should be!
Because he chooses not to be?
Your "Go Judge, go!" remark is misplaced: he isn't a judge. But I think you know that.
This thread is flooded with bots advertising an Amazon product. If that doesn't put you off Amazon, nothing will.
You're so right, I make £4,000 a month selling cryptocurrency online, it's so easy and I'd be happy to share the information.
Just reported every one of them. More of them than genuine comments
It’s nothing to do with Amazon. It’s crypto currency scam. ….just fyi
I'm glad people like James O'Brien are there to call out the BS Propaganda.
James o'brien should have asked him about the 30 children killed in Palestine this year .
......the Guardian must be brought to heel...well said...!
@@jamesbarr2362He isn't responsible for Israels actions. And I doubt he would be an apologist for them.
@@csharpe5787 His family stole the land from the Palestinians watch the 3 part documentry
all of our local newspapers have been turned into online subscription letters. we even have the republican party trying to disarm federal law enforcement in the irs and the atf. we must always be vigilant. everywhere.
And you still need a tv license 🙃
@@andrewneil6027 the craziest part to me is like the last always pro gun party finally found their anti gun stance their targets just make who they are really obvious. disarm the feds and the lgbtq community and the democrats. i dont think they get why people here have been calling them authoritarian fascists but they wear the shoe that fits. its wild times we live in.
Rinder is so right..
👍🙏
He never once mentioned the Palestinians what their going through nor did James.Shame on them.
...and you do know what they are going through thank goodness....😊
I've got grandchildren. Some of the people who did dreadful things (do) have children and grand children. What does the future hold? Sometimes I despair!
That’s a coincidence- I happened to read Ordinary Men a few weeks ago and it has stayed with me ever since. I think it should be standard reading in any history classroom
Is the book “Ordinary Men” by Christopher Browning?
Great talk. Thanks
Reminds me of the lab coated experimentalist asking individuals to keep giving electric shocks to a victim in another room, despite their screams, they keep upping the voltage because they are told to continue.
Eugenics that Nazis used came firstly from the UK and USA...and 1984 BIG BROTHER, is only a few steps away in the UK and USA depending on the government, or power driven PM/President in power!
Be very interesting to know what he thinks of Israel 🇮🇱 and the Palestinian situation, picking there would be a deathly silence.
Well he won't outright condemn Israel and neither should he. There are two forces out there and the answer is balance.Neither side is squeaky clean
No human catastrophe in the Israeli/ Palestinian situation I guess?
Bot farmer. Daddy, what did you do? I smeared people for a living.
@@castelobranco2255 Catastrophe is probably pushing it, Rawanda was a catastrophe. It's a serious issue
@@ppo2424Know the Plastines are just having their homes destroyed around them.Not the Jews .It’s all one sided.Very unfair and he said nothing.Cowards.
Critical thinking - it's something we all should be more aware of to filter out the propaganda, lies and BS....
...and with your critical thinking contribution we undoubtedly will..
Wonderful clarity. Thank you Sir.
Agree 100% with what this guy is saying. Language can be used to dehumanize people, either to rob them of their humanity in order to brutalize them more easily or to put some distance to the uncomfortable truth of our own potential for monstrosity.
We need to understand that we partake it propaganda too
Excellent, that’s why it works so well for the powerful , it’s a distraction from what the are doing.
we have 1 planet and we are 1 race.... I fear we will never overcome prejudices in time to save the planet.
Very insightful!
Love to know what he thinks of Israel's murdering of Palestians.
I'm pretty sure he'd be against it. What's your point?
@@minimoog4236lots of people talk the talk but you would be very surprised at how many of these people have double standards when it comes to Isreal and Palestine🤷♂️
Not saying he is one of these duplicitous people but it would be nice to know what he thinks about this.
How about Palestinian killing Jews.
@@timwoodger7896He'd probably get cancelled and targeted by the media if he ever admitted that
I fail to see the relevance.
20 years ago we wouldn’t have tolerated a social safety net that was so inadequate that someone opened a food bank.
Ordinary Men is an amazing and disturbing book that I read at University. It should be essential reading in secondary school.
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏👏
For those interested in reading the book he mentions (ordinary men) it’s by Christopher Browning, not Ian.
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (The Macat Library)
Two of my favourite human beings.
my condolences
I used to listen to James regularly but eventually stopped because he always made excuses for people making very poor life decisions, again and again.
This is how fascism, lives and grows,we have too be vigilant aĺl the time!!
Finally,it takes him that long""TO BE AWAKEN""SURPRISED!!!!
He never mentioned Palestine what’s happening to them.Believe he should of done.
💯 true wasn’t there a rule that you couldn’t own more than one propaganda tool (daily papers) they have a lot to answer for over my lifetime imho
amazingly loaded 6 minutes!!
Absolutes. When people start talking in absolutes and there are subjects that cannot be questioned or criticised, we are in dangerous territory.
Intelligent and articulate and insightful.
Thanks
They talk about the language of mainstream media however never recognise their own place in that industry. The lack of self-awareness is one of the biggest issues with establishment media.
To be fair to James he often referes to his own role
Correct. They literally are the mainstream media.
@jeremymerrifield7244 James reminds me of the phrase "beware men in flowing robes who come in my name". He talks a great deal about his private school privilege and having voted for Boris Johnson for London Mayor yet also discusses political ideas judging them by whether they are "landing" rather than extolling their merits. What this shows me is that he is a media person first and foremost. So he cannot separate media influence from real value. Example; he knows that the media is a platform for politicians but refutes the notion that the media makes or breaks our potential leaders. In fact he calls himself and his colleagues, the media class. Totally forgetting that they are part of the electorate. The fact that he voted for Mr Johnson for Mayor demonstrates his fallibility yet he absolve himself completely of culpability. Which is bias. So propaganda works on him very very well despite his protestations to the contrary.
@@davidsmith5523
Well said Dave.
Basically pointing the finger when he's doing the same
Very interesting indeed.
2:39 we "other them" ... we have to .. because otherwise what we are saying about them would be so horrable that we would be bad people ...
Language does matter. My father used to say that the Nazis hated the Jews so if I was ever to use the word hate then I’d better understand that words we use matter and to be mindful of the way we communicate. When we speak about fellow humans it’s important to be empathetic especially when you disagree with the actions. Lack of empathy is probably what causes wars and also allows them to be perpetuated.
What always fascinates me about these stories of Concentration camps/ serial killers and the like is not so much the end events but more so the journey to get to the point where these things are seen as a completely normal outcome. As the judge implies, generally people don't just wake up one morning and "turn on " a switch and do these things 100% , it is a process of many months and years of conditioning both by self and external forces.
How true
Wow. Powerful stuff.
I'm worried now after being publicly demonized by James O''Brien for being a conservative that voted for Brexit. I'm waiting for the knock on the door.
Would like to watch this whole interview. Is it available?
Yes of course. It's a podcast: Full Disclosure by James O'Brien.
200% correct i have long argued this, I have had the privilege to work and live in numerous countries, two of which were Japan and Germany. When I have discussed these countries I have stated that both the German and Japanese people are two of the most polite, sincere and friendly populations, I have followed up with the fact that if these two peoples can be involved in some of the worst atrocities in the 1930’s and 40’s, then every population is capable of doing the same. I am not a religious person but “let he who cast the first stone be without sin”, is a very apt story.
Superbly put by Rob Rinder.
Wisdom personified.
We (North Americans) protested and fixed racial prejudice, women's inequality, etc. in the 1960s & '70s. Even put in laws.
What are the results, how's it all going there now?
Yeah, right. White people Dragging black people to death behind their pick-up isn't a hate crime. American Blind Spot again.
@@jeffsimon9594 Women's autonomy is out the door and white nationalism is at its peak. Complacency, innit.
That was an eye opener, it looks like its happening again.
Wow!
How long would it take for someone like Rob Rinder, with such clarity of thought and considerate humanity to be labelled "woke" by the manufacturers of consent? This hypothetical example of lazy language from the gutter media chills me. Sincere respect to Rob Rinder for sharing his enlightened thoughts. He is a beacon of light.
The really sad thing is you are right .
Gosh! this is really sobering.
I noticed in Rinders documentary visiting Israel he didn't show any empathy for the Palestinian people who they stole the land from, but he shed tears for the soldiers who stole it.
The west is slipping into fascism and I don't believe it can be stopped. It rides in on a tide of emotion like a force of nature.
The language/words particularly of the media is a major part of a viscous circle...
It is in us all but it is also in all of us to stand against brutality and inhumanity. That is why we must stand against what is happening in Palestine.
Scarily accurate.
💀💀💀💀💀 he said all that and ended up on reject modernity 💀💀💀💀
Iwish you’d asked Rinder (a Jewish gentleman) of his view on the Israeli actions against Palestine.
It wasn't the far-right propaganda that ultimately enabled the Holocaust. It was the group psychology - deference to authority, peer pressure, acclimatisation to repulsive tasks, division of labour etc. Those participating in shooting actions were often given a choice to participate or not - usually they agreed because they didn't want to leave the responsibility to their comrades. They were often absolutely appalled after their first slaughter of innocents, but eventually it became no different to working in an abattoir.
It's just the realisation of the banality of evil, first named in Hannah Arendt's book about the trial of Adolf Eichmann.
Anyone know the word and what it means at 3:23? Sounds like "lung butter estates". I've never heard of it. Thanks
Can anybody confirm the name of the Book Ordinary Men/man by Ian Browning? Can't find it on Waterstones. Or is it Christopher R Browning, Ordinary Men
Ordinary Men: Reserve Police Battalion 101 and the Final Solution in Poland (The Macat Library)
To be vigilant is to stay woke. Yup.
How would these two hand wringers describe Ian Huntley, Myra Hindley and Ian Brady? They certainly wouldn't be children's entertainers.
Rinder's hands dance like a ballerina, it's really quite something dahling
This Gentleman ahead of his time
I would impress upon all adults keen to avert history repeating to learn critical thinking skills so the media stands less chance of causing the innocent to become weapons in the hands of the despicable.
In addition I would impress upon the innocent to learn about how they have been conditioned to believe certain narratives and how that conditioning may be topped up on a daily basis.
I use ' the innocent ' because everyone starts out that way.
what a guy
A solid human person. Yep the ssint and sinner is resident in each of us
So true, we should always be careful how hate and resentment can creep into our heads and all of a sudden justifying our actions.
I recall one story in the book where humans were forced to lie down, face down on top of the bodies of the dead where they too were shot in the back of the head.
I read the testimony of a woman who survived one of those situations. She was a child & she lay still as bodies piled on her.
@@ruthfoley2580 Yes I heard that some escaped after it was assumed they had been killed. I have read a number of books and still cannot fathom how someone can do to another.
@@greamespens1460 It starts slowly.
@@minimoog4236 Yes
@@greamespens1460 Because you and your family's lives will be in danger if you refuse?
The chairs look extremely uncomfortable judging by their posture. Look like theyre riding a horse with the saddle not quite cinched
Read Blood Lands Timothy Snyder, brilliant read.
Thatcher wasalso a culprit!
i hope its not already to late i scream it out and folk dont care
People are given too much credit…!
Most people are sheep
There's always a monster in there somewhere though, either at the head of the "movement" or behind those heads.
I find it so interesting,the transformation of J,o'b when he has someone sitting infront of him..He's polite,reasonable,minus the condescension!..And as much as i find it difficult to say,he's actually quite pleasant!
..But his Cult like fans,(who pay homage to his other persona) must be terribly disappointed!
James calling out his callers' BS and unfounded drivel isn't "condescension"
And you're a bot farmer. Get a real job.
@@thedivinemrm5832 I agree with just about everything James says and admire his passion but do sometimes find his bullying manner off-putting.
@@thedivinemrm5832 What u honestly believe he's such an authority on life?..Don't take my word for it,just look up his background&Bio and tell me where all of this Life& experience comes from?
And surely even one of his most ardent followers would have to concede there's a little 'Jekyll&Hyde' at play here? Or maybe he adopts this 'Radio Persona' and it's all just a performance,who Nose?
Brilliant we are "all" failing to learn from history. With the likes of Trump & Johnson who knows where we will be lead🤔
Where is it heading? It's dangerously lurching tpowards to the far right with Nigel Farage and his latest incarnation of ukip/brexit party/reform UK or whatever its called this week , a right wing 'party' filled with utter loons. The UK is fast heading for total destruction backed by Russian money.
Weird to see him not as his Uber camp character, can take him seriously now
“Think of the press as a great Keyboard on which the government can play” Josef Goebbels
And there are Israeli soldiers and ex-soldiers, who now form the group, 'Breaking the Silence', who are saying they found themselves on the "wrong side of history", but the Media and many who refuse to find any fault with Israel, whatsoever, criticise them or call them liars. The truth is that we are all capable of committing atrocities, breaking moral and legal rules, committing war crimes, regardless of our personalities, our upbringing, our experiences. That was demonstrated time and time again by Social Psychologists, such as Milgram and Zimbardo. Yet, if we criticise any such behaviour by Israeli forces, we are met with accusations of anti-Semitism or are shouted down with comments like "how dare you accuse us of that?"
JP talks a lot about this