True, but they recently nefed devastate specifically in a recent patch…though my understanding is that warriors (just like in classic vanilla) still have both the greatest dps and single target tanking potential If properly min/maxed
I feel Sarthe is walmart version of Crix. We can call him Crix 2.0 guy has literally no idea about classes, but still managed to get some class guide position in wowhead cause hes popular. Warrior Tanks are literally god tier tanks, they are highest dps as tanks with shield/1h if u play right runes.
Huge cap on warrior tank, look at logs and top performing guilds, more are switching to warrior tanks due to their output in the devastate build, plus they get to press devestate(sunder) non stop putting a valuable debuff up if you're not running hommunculos, doing over 200 dps on a number of fights
Yep, he obviously hasn't played warrior tank. Dual wield Prot is useless. You need a shield to devastate. Go Arms for the thunderclap and charge talents. Spam devastate, thunderclap and win. You'll have to pay up for the Warbringer rune but it's 1000% worth it.
Not sure what you mean when you say tank warlock struggles to solo tank the raid, ive been doing it for two weeks now without any issue whatsoever. I think the ability to solo tank is more dependant on your raid dps than what tank you're playing.
I think he's referring to extremely high raid dps. In top performing guilds I suspect lock struggles to hold threat. The thing to understand about these charts is that they're looking at data from the sweatiest guilds. Things are more balanced and all specs are more viable than they ever have been but we look at videos like this for black and white conclusions. We run a lock tank in our runs and have never had problems. Nobody is consistently pushing 300 dps though lol.
I'm a ret paladin, first paladin ever. I always sign up for dps but end up off tanking, usually 1st on dps. I was more like 3rd with occasional 2nd before divine storm. After learning some about Paladin I think divine storm is so much dopamine I won't play one outside of SOD
You don’t know shaman then. Water shield shares a spot with molten blast. You need molten blast for aoe. The trick is to have 2 different pants. One for tanking that has way of earth. Than other with shamanistic rage. Swap between them n between pulls and you never have to drink again.
This dude doesn't even test shot. He's been screaming anything and everything about any information other people share. He's a hot commodity in the classic community... Not in a good way. I still find his presentations entertaining as fk tho lol. I just hate that this dude is dumb AF with hunter info. MM will never compete with BM in this phase. Maybe phase 2 and further. Not a chance right now. Even in phase 1 bis. We have 2 fully geared hunters and we've been testing builds. BM is out DPSing MM in every fight. He is right about melee weaving though. Dunno why all these hunter noobs hate the idea of it. It's literally the only reason why hunters are relevant in era raids, beside BWL, and I've always loved it.
U dont need molten blast on a Boss fight. Thats why he said just put watershield. And u dont need it on trash, caise double Rockbiter will pump threat to the skies. Mob density is not high in bfd, especially when u have taunt every 6s and another shock. U can ez tank 3-4 mobs without molten blast and be never oom cause of water shield. And ofc u switch in pants for some rage regen and u could switch moltenblast but Boss fight it doesnt matter.
Going to have to hard disagree on shaman tank. It is strong sure, and easily the best dungeon / trash tank on horde. But for BFD, you don't get bonus points for generating excessive amounts of threat. Warriors don't have any issues with single target threat, do significantly more damage, have better mitigation, and generally have more utility with Battle Shout giving more AP than SotE totem. Shield bash is a better PvE interrupt than Earth Shock too, and doesn’t require you use a shield the whole time (just macro shield equip + bash to interrupt). Also, contrary to what you said, Homunculi *can* stay up on Gelihast, but die to the mechanics of Ghamoora, Lady Serevas, and Lorgus Jett (lightning shield totem). So being able to Sunder Armor on those fights is also huge. And the notion that Shamans can "solo tank" BFD is not unique to them. Pretty much any tank can solo it (I've never played with feral tank so can't speak for them), with the exception of key moments like when they build too many stacks on Akumai. There is no need for a second tank however, because in the current content you can just have Hunter pets taunt and off-tank in those moments. If you look at top guids like Onslaught, they are running Warrior over Shaman. Finally, dual wield prot is not the spec. Warcraft logs just shows the prot icon to distinguish tank warriors from DPS.
Ppl parsing in bfd and logs...I did the raid first week with pug,no shadow pot no bfd buff, top dps was a hunter 110 and it seemed massive. Had so much fun. Its not blizzards problem, it the community. Way too minmaxing for a not ao difficult game
On note, using retaliation on last boss to cheese-increase dps doesn t make you a good dps. Why do pplmake dps tierlists soley by damage output...if i hit critter snakes lvl 1 with aoe shi.t and go to 1k dps that doesn t mean i do 1k dps its just stupid. Warriors first 2 weeks were bottom half before ppl min maxing.
Why would you use a cheese mechanic on the last boss as a marker for good warrior DPS? Retaliating adds is a joke. Also mention that warrior can sunder- but dps output will be a lot less than instant homunculi debuffing.
I have a 98.2 overall on feral dps, i am top dps on all but the turtle boss. Im not just saying this because i am a feral player but feral is top 3 dps for sure, easy to play, crazy buffs for raids.
I know the bear tank rage buffs were put out basically the same day you made this so you didn't have any time to do real testing before ranking, but the rage buffs to bear tank feel really good.
Tank rankings especially concerning warriors is completely off. Sword and Board using devastate is currently the highest DPS tank in the game by a decent margin, almost all of the top dps parses for tanks are warriors and no one is DW. Basically all tanks can solo tank the entirety of BFD with a good group as you will phase Akumai before you get to dangerous stacks and nothing else requires two tanks. The actual rankings should be: S: War & Sham A: Paladin B: Lock & Rogue C: Druid
2 caveats to this tier list : - This is a BFD/PvE tier list. You should put it on your title. BFD is only a small part of what you can do in SoD. - You don't take into account utility (outside of the ones that add DPS). For example, the mana regen from shaman and paladins. The reason for that is simple : you don't need it in geared groups. That does not mean it does not exist and has no value outside of BFD, just that it does not for BFD. A good example is shamans bringing both purge and raid wide mana regen are very very good in ashenvale event but those two qualities are useless for BFD.
Hunters will fall off even more at later brackets if things are kept the same. Pets always were OP at lower level, as the current priest homunculus shows. Buff to Lion aura was a step in the right direction but explosive shot and chimera nerfs were done on a whim, rather than outright balancing pet damage.
Totally agree. Too many people cried when we all knew who was gonna be clapping cheeks at this level bracket. Little do any of these cry babies know.. Hunters don't scale well. They're going to have to rebalance shot on the fly to make them work later.
@@Rated_Gnarhonestly, I would hope they rebalance multiple forks throughout the season. It's not fun to have a tier where you're great and a tier where you're ass. Casters need serious help. I'd personally say they need to start there.
@Rated_Gnar I agree, but perhaps it's just too hard at low lvling brackets to make it more balanced. some classes are doing ridiculous damage from max range instantly with no counter... others can't get a spell cast off at all.
I mean it varies for sure but if you look today the best fire mages are doing 197 in bfd overall and warlocks are doing 213 as of this date, so DPS wise I dont really think lock is A tier over a fire mage, the dps is like 15-25 difference and mage has way better aoe than a warlock, Warlock does have Recklessness that saves them but from a DPS perspective definitely not a entire tier above
@@TaintPUNCH53 I did the incinerate lake of fire build a couple times and I just tried everlasting affliction and it felt so much better. Damage is great too
@@peterc2672 Life drain, Incen, Meta, There is not a person in this game that could pull threat off of my warlock, we clear this raid in sub 45 every week, just found out warlock tank is the absolute best on every boss, our warriors can do mass damage and me as our tank, I just parse the whole time. makes it easier when your tank can pull more dps than 90% of the raid. AOE is no problem either, You tab / Searing pain.
Lock tank is insane. If both a lock tank and shaman tank throw everything they have at one mob, the lock will win in the threat battle. There's really no competition in single target threat. Maybe a geared warrior.
What all this go-through logs really tells is that people will do anything to pump additional dmg and some people have to sacrifice their dmg in order to let others pump their dmg so they can top a stupid meter, instead of going for what brings the most dmg for the total raid and clear it the fastest.
Shamans have to choose between Molten Blast and Water Shield not Shield Mastery and Water Shield. Shamans have mana issues when they have to AoE tank and can't run Water Shield.
As far as next phase : hunters were generally top dps at level 60 fresh going into MC. The reason was because Beastial wrath is incredibly OP, even in OG classic, especially before other classes scaled up with insane late tier raid gear. but now it’s going to be even more beastly because short fights, pet scaling, AND bm rune. So I think full melee hunter with 31 points bm at lvl 40 will crush next phase
While I agree BM is probably going to be crazy next phase with their talents, why would full melee be the way? Even the top melee-hunter parses right now are just mischaracterized ranged hunters who melee-weave.
Did a pug with 2 Feral Tanks. It wasn't bad tbh, and I say that as a 0-6-10 resto shaman who essentially solo healed the raid thanks to a leech priest who was afk most of it
their issue isn't survivability. Their issue is threat. They do the lowest threat by quite a bit right now and this becomes very apparently if you have a high damage group. Their utility is also severely hindered by stupid shit like needing to shapeshift out for form to do basically anything at all. For example: fearie fire, use any consumable, rebirth, etc. If your druid is leaving bear form for any reason while tanking there is a chance they just immediately die.
Mages should be in the tier above next to destro locks, like their dps is comparable in boss fights but for trash they are gods and leveling they are gods. They definitely should be A tier just because they excell in those parts of the game, if it is just a parse tier list I do agree.
wish someone would make a prediction tier list for phase 2 on dps with 31 talents alone. Runes will change that for sure but still would be interesting to see.
@@051biohaz hunters downscale super hard, they aren't even top right now because other ppl already have some gear. Hunters will for sure be middle/low tier dps next phase (assuming same runes).
@@JaredGofftheman yes. But I can solo heal the whole raid on my mage, like a priest would. While outdamaging him during the raid. So I don't see how a priest is better.
Shaman tanks lose their AOE threat bread and butter (Molten Blast) to take water shield to deal with their mana issues. Shield Mastery is Chest, while Water Shield and Molten Blast are gloves.
What talents/runes are best for the “ret tank” mentioned in the video? I assume all points into ret tree and for runes: taunt, d storm and exo/shield swap avenger shield?
I'm main tanking as ret currently, I took 5 in improved devotion aura and the rest in ret to get seal of command. I figured the armor is better than some extra crit. You don't really need improved speed but if you can't live without it than three in devotion aura. If your healers are Chad's then you can probably go full ret but your contribution to DPS is minimal and I prefer non stop pulling and rather give the healers any extra mana. Pallies are so OP at tanking right now it feels like there's plenty of flexibility in your talent choices.
I’m astonished rogue didn’t get nerfed and is still OP as fuck, if not even more than ever 😂 It’s takes so little skill to min/max compared to like any other class too rofl, easy, cheap, OP, I love it 🎉
@@Rated_Gnar indeed indeed 😄 then go wreck other characters who aren’t as geared/don’t have the cheap class abilities you do 🤣 Honestly I thought it was gonna be feral DPS that was going to get the boost, and rogues we’re gonna go from being top tier to mid, but I guess blizzard knows it’s fanbase/ players 😅
Water shield rune is hand slot, shield mastery is chest. You don't need shield for any of it. You DW rockbitter with fast daggers and generate infinite threat. Mana is hardly an issue with water shield. Your runes are DW spec, WS, and Way of earth. I parse 95+ as Shaman tank. As for Rogue and Warrior tank, I disagree with your ranking. Warriors are by far the best tanks, at least of the 3 classes I've tanked with. I dish out way more dps on my warrior tank than I do on my Shaman and aoe threat is not an issue for any of the fights in BFD. You don't even run molten blast as a Shaman (your godly aoe threat rune since WS is too important). As for Rogues, their single target threat is excellent, their mitigation is excellent, and they deal massive dps while tanking. Personally, I would put Warrior first, Rogue second, and Shaman third, but all 3 feel amazing. Warlock has threat issues and doesn't provide interrupts, which makes it worse tank than the above 3.
Hello, thanks for the video. There is one point about warrior that you should bear in mind, I have different characters that wear leather, silk and a paladin. It's crazy how fast it goes to gear as a mail bearer because at the moment on alliance side there is only warrior and paladin that can wear it. On hord side, warrior have the monopoly of mail ! I think it is important to take into account than warriors are stronger also because their is less competition on the loot and they are able to be full gear easily.
Guy play what u like if u are good at ur class u are alwys prefered to a generic clone whas like that for ever.. u bring utility and raid leaders line to have options.
He kept saying "shaman tanks just don't run shield mastery, use water shield instead." 1- Shield mastery is a chest rune, water shield is a glove rune. 2- you also lose all your AOE threat if you use it, because molten blast is also a glove rune. 3- Removing shield mastery makes you so much squishier, it isn't even close to worth it. You lose a mana regen engine, a stacking armor buff, 10% flat chance to block, and 15% block value.
i think its kinda lame they didnt make tauren palladins and dwarf shamans or just put BE and DRANEI into the game its season of discovery not season of lets only have 6 classes and 4 races
Lets be honest, if you added all the extra damage from everyones windfury procs and extra damage from Mangle debuff, Feral dps would be the highest dps in the game.
When building a raid you don't really care about an individuals DPS, but the overall DPS. If you reframe it, all those windfury procs are actually your DPS and you should feel good for your contribution of unlocking the potential of the raid.
Retail mentality. If the only thing you care about is raiding, yes, warrior is absolutely OP. But in classic, unlike retail, things other than raiding matter and hunters far outshines warriors in nearly every other aspect of the game. Let's make hunter into a melee class, let's make it so their pet can't draw aggro off them. Let's make their pet get oneshot by dungeon bosses and other players in PvP. Let's remove their mana bar so they're far more restricted by another resource. Let's remove freezing traps and feign death. Then we're on somewhat even ground and can discuss making hunter do the same damage as warriors. Or perhaps you wouldn't want 9/10 things you like about hunter to be gutted into the floor only so they can do the same DPS as warriors as still be balanced? Really, I urge you to level a warrior and soloq some BGs. Do some open world PvP in Ashenvale. Farm some dungeons, make a silly attempt at farming RFK where you'll just die instantly. Enjoy the leveling experience. You'll come to appreciate what hunters have which warriors don't. If you still think it isn't justified for warriors to do more damage after all that, maybe it's really time for you to go to retail and play a game with more homogenized specs where everyone has the same capabilities in solo play, PvP and PvE. Or you accept that warriors excel at 1 thing more than any other class and is worse at 9/10 things compared to any other class, and realize that the piss easy raids in classic isn't the be all end all of classic WoW, but merely a small part of the entirety of the classic experience where hunters have it better in almost every single aspect compared to almost all classes.
@@hampustornros Or... they could balance the classes to perform well in pve content. Yes hunter can solo things, yes hunter can do pvp quite well. Hunter is also the only pure dps in SoD so they obviously should do some of the best damage. They have ONE role. There's also the fact that newsflash buddy: A lot of people, myself included, fucking loathe pvp. So if I'm getting told that "Well I guess you should enjoy the fact your class is good in these aspects of the game that you don't like and suck it up" then I'm obviously not going to be happy with that answer.
@@cerberus6400 Boiling the game down to only 1/10th of its content and using that 1/10th to try and justify hunter buffs is literally what you're doing. I've got a game that does EXACTLY that for you. It's retail. In this phase warriors get to be gods for 40 minutes out of every 3 days. Outside of those 40 minutes, they spend the rest of every reset being the worst class in the game by far. Hunters? They get to be the 3rd best DPS in the game while being gods for every second outside of those 40 minutes. Warriors are gods for 40 minutes every 3 days. Hunters are a high A tier for 40 minutes and then gods for 4280 minutes. You do the math, figure out if that favors hunters or not. Hunters are brought to raid because they have a specific role and are an essential part of a raid team, warriors and rogues are in most part ONLY brought for their damage.
There's two types of feral druids. The first one in the group, and the rest. The first one in the group is the one true god all the other gods look up too and worship.
Way to leave us melee hunters out ya Bastid!!! I’ve been pullin #1 dps spot in our admittedly casual guild as full melee hunter….using wolf with furious howl rank 2, manually activating to make sure it’s always used with flanking.
its funny the top spriest parses are about the same as the tanks in their group, some below haha alot of the problems is everything good in the shadow tree is down the bottom, coupled with all dmg spells getting new ranks at lvl 26 and 28, we come alive at 40 bracket ;)
If you run water shield which doesn't affect your ability to have Shield master you wont be able to use Molten blast which is why were so good at AoE. So if you don't run shield mastery then what rune do you put on the chest?
Mates want to switch to alliance. Still dont know what i want to play there... :D got druid and war on horde. But new way can be a new chance...but we all dont know what is a good and "bad" flass in Phase 2:D
I solo tank as warlock, but AoE threat requires Big Bronze Bombs, which is getting expensive. I also dps as balance, which obviously is pretty behind on dps in the raid, but it's so much fun to play.
Your thumbnail is toxic because it implies there's a "wrong" choice. Its phase 1 and the raid is stupid easy. Chill tf out dudes, play what you have fun with.
Phase one is end game right now. And the current state of endgame is a little indicative of next phase. People like to know where their class and other classes stand. You're the one who needs to chill lol
anyone who is worried bout gearscore or logs at lvl 25 is the reason gaming has gone to shit when gear dps and class meta is affecting prog then you can worry but if you aint playing for fun you should go play FPS games you meta loser
No love for melee hunter in SOD, I'm pulling higher dps than ranged hunters on almost every fight in my groups. People be lolling at me when I say I'm melee, but I'm slapping
will cope expecting something for mana as a shadowform linked rune at 40 so healers can't abuse it, if not shadow will remain a D tier pve spec, even a worse spot than classic if locks aren't running shadow spells 😂
Sarthe please don't say muh class is bad... I don't have half of my kit unlocked yet...shaman pain...oh and all the cast speed reduction talents are 25 points deep in the talent tree...
Our tank warrior is doing 200+ dps on each fight single target with devastate. They are god tier.
Yep lol, that was a bit of a clueless take by Sarthe.
Show me logs od that tank thanks
Shouldnt ever need to see that. Play the game and observe.@@martinkunes5359
True, but they recently nefed devastate specifically in a recent patch…though my understanding is that warriors (just like in classic vanilla) still have both the greatest dps and single target tanking potential If properly min/maxed
devastate has not been touched in any patch notes of sod...@@samsonhaze6595
I feel Sarthe is walmart version of Crix. We can call him Crix 2.0 guy has literally no idea about classes, but still managed to get some class guide position in wowhead cause hes popular. Warrior Tanks are literally god tier tanks, they are highest dps as tanks with shield/1h if u play right runes.
Huge cap on warrior tank, look at logs and top performing guilds, more are switching to warrior tanks due to their output in the devastate build, plus they get to press devestate(sunder) non stop putting a valuable debuff up if you're not running hommunculos, doing over 200 dps on a number of fights
he must be so lost, ret DPS is lower then Tank warr on logs
Yep, he obviously hasn't played warrior tank. Dual wield Prot is useless. You need a shield to devastate. Go Arms for the thunderclap and charge talents. Spam devastate, thunderclap and win. You'll have to pay up for the Warbringer rune but it's 1000% worth it.
Run Humonculi.
Nah... no thanks
Just run humunculi and have warrior DPS with 2H and do 250-350 DPS. Then just have 1 paladin solo tank everything. Much better setup.
@@GokuIRLI solo tank as warrior still doing 140 dps across all encounters. Running hom with devastate tank just gives max dmg on pull
Not sure what you mean when you say tank warlock struggles to solo tank the raid, ive been doing it for two weeks now without any issue whatsoever. I think the ability to solo tank is more dependant on your raid dps than what tank you're playing.
I think he's referring to extremely high raid dps. In top performing guilds I suspect lock struggles to hold threat.
The thing to understand about these charts is that they're looking at data from the sweatiest guilds. Things are more balanced and all specs are more viable than they ever have been but we look at videos like this for black and white conclusions.
We run a lock tank in our runs and have never had problems. Nobody is consistently pushing 300 dps though lol.
I'm a ret paladin, first paladin ever. I always sign up for dps but end up off tanking, usually 1st on dps. I was more like 3rd with occasional 2nd before divine storm. After learning some about Paladin I think divine storm is so much dopamine I won't play one outside of SOD
Warriors and Rogues already on top, like they are at end game as well (with fire mages).
So...what are we testing here with this "discovery"?
You don’t know shaman then. Water shield shares a spot with molten blast. You need molten blast for aoe. The trick is to have 2 different pants. One for tanking that has way of earth. Than other with shamanistic rage. Swap between them n between pulls and you never have to drink again.
Switch gloves so you can have molten blast for trash and water shield for boss fights.
This dude doesn't even test shot. He's been screaming anything and everything about any information other people share. He's a hot commodity in the classic community... Not in a good way. I still find his presentations entertaining as fk tho lol. I just hate that this dude is dumb AF with hunter info. MM will never compete with BM in this phase. Maybe phase 2 and further. Not a chance right now. Even in phase 1 bis. We have 2 fully geared hunters and we've been testing builds. BM is out DPSing MM in every fight. He is right about melee weaving though. Dunno why all these hunter noobs hate the idea of it. It's literally the only reason why hunters are relevant in era raids, beside BWL, and I've always loved it.
I'm glad someone else came to say this. I'm sure he fucks up info with other class abilities and specs aswell...😅
U dont need molten blast on a Boss fight. Thats why he said just put watershield. And u dont need it on trash, caise double Rockbiter will pump threat to the skies. Mob density is not high in bfd, especially when u have taunt every 6s and another shock. U can ez tank 3-4 mobs without molten blast and be never oom cause of water shield. And ofc u switch in pants for some rage regen and u could switch moltenblast but Boss fight it doesnt matter.
Going to have to hard disagree on shaman tank. It is strong sure, and easily the best dungeon / trash tank on horde. But for BFD, you don't get bonus points for generating excessive amounts of threat. Warriors don't have any issues with single target threat, do significantly more damage, have better mitigation, and generally have more utility with Battle Shout giving more AP than SotE totem. Shield bash is a better PvE interrupt than Earth Shock too, and doesn’t require you use a shield the whole time (just macro shield equip + bash to interrupt). Also, contrary to what you said, Homunculi *can* stay up on Gelihast, but die to the mechanics of Ghamoora, Lady Serevas, and Lorgus Jett (lightning shield totem). So being able to Sunder Armor on those fights is also huge. And the notion that Shamans can "solo tank" BFD is not unique to them. Pretty much any tank can solo it (I've never played with feral tank so can't speak for them), with the exception of key moments like when they build too many stacks on Akumai. There is no need for a second tank however, because in the current content you can just have Hunter pets taunt and off-tank in those moments. If you look at top guids like Onslaught, they are running Warrior over Shaman. Finally, dual wield prot is not the spec. Warcraft logs just shows the prot icon to distinguish tank warriors from DPS.
Thumbnail implies that he was genuinely contemplating the matter.
Ppl parsing in bfd and logs...I did the raid first week with pug,no shadow pot no bfd buff, top dps was a hunter 110 and it seemed massive. Had so much fun. Its not blizzards problem, it the community. Way too minmaxing for a not ao difficult game
On note, using retaliation on last boss to cheese-increase dps doesn t make you a good dps. Why do pplmake dps tierlists soley by damage output...if i hit critter snakes lvl 1 with aoe shi.t and go to 1k dps that doesn t mean i do 1k dps its just stupid. Warriors first 2 weeks were bottom half before ppl min maxing.
Finally someone with whom I agree, it’s especially annoying when you are required to be encore, drink all the ylasai and collect world buffs
Why would you use a cheese mechanic on the last boss as a marker for good warrior DPS? Retaliating adds is a joke.
Also mention that warrior can sunder- but dps output will be a lot less than instant homunculi debuffing.
I have a 98.2 overall on feral dps, i am top dps on all but the turtle boss. Im not just saying this because i am a feral player but feral is top 3 dps for sure, easy to play, crazy buffs for raids.
I know the bear tank rage buffs were put out basically the same day you made this so you didn't have any time to do real testing before ranking, but the rage buffs to bear tank feel really good.
no, no they don't bear tanks are a joke and should re roll to feral dps
Well, I picked Mage for my main. Looks like I have to wait for phase 2 to even try being cool.
Cries in bear tank. Smoked off the rip.
bro the rage buffs are really good.
Tank rankings especially concerning warriors is completely off. Sword and Board using devastate is currently the highest DPS tank in the game by a decent margin, almost all of the top dps parses for tanks are warriors and no one is DW. Basically all tanks can solo tank the entirety of BFD with a good group as you will phase Akumai before you get to dangerous stacks and nothing else requires two tanks. The actual rankings should be: S: War & Sham A: Paladin B: Lock & Rogue C: Druid
youre tripping to say prot war isnt s tier
This is "the end" tier list this is the "sorry have depression" tier list LOL
When I have a shaman tank, I sometimes forget I’m playing classic and not retail, the AOE threat is kinda crazy
shaman on retail is nothing like what it is on classic wtf lol
bear and warlock tanks are fine. My raid group ran them as main from the start and we clear BFD with them every week in 35 mins.
Me totally waiting for the info on Resto Druid then on 8:57 it's just randomly put and on S tier but with zero input about it (wtf).
afaik it's basically just because Wild Growth is bustedly op.
prot warriors are insane right now and topping meters
i MTed BFD bear form. It was ok, but i agree with what you said about it's current state
2 caveats to this tier list :
- This is a BFD/PvE tier list. You should put it on your title. BFD is only a small part of what you can do in SoD.
- You don't take into account utility (outside of the ones that add DPS). For example, the mana regen from shaman and paladins. The reason for that is simple : you don't need it in geared groups. That does not mean it does not exist and has no value outside of BFD, just that it does not for BFD. A good example is shamans bringing both purge and raid wide mana regen are very very good in ashenvale event but those two qualities are useless for BFD.
Hunters will fall off even more at later brackets if things are kept the same. Pets always were OP at lower level, as the current priest homunculus shows. Buff to Lion aura was a step in the right direction but explosive shot and chimera nerfs were done on a whim, rather than outright balancing pet damage.
Totally agree. Too many people cried when we all knew who was gonna be clapping cheeks at this level bracket. Little do any of these cry babies know..
Hunters don't scale well. They're going to have to rebalance shot on the fly to make them work later.
@@Rated_Gnarhonestly, I would hope they rebalance multiple forks throughout the season. It's not fun to have a tier where you're great and a tier where you're ass.
Casters need serious help. I'd personally say they need to start there.
@Rated_Gnar I agree, but perhaps it's just too hard at low lvling brackets to make it more balanced. some classes are doing ridiculous damage from max range instantly with no counter... others can't get a spell cast off at all.
If priests are using Hemo over mending that are gimping there healing big time.
I mean it varies for sure but if you look today the best fire mages are doing 197 in bfd overall and warlocks are doing 213 as of this date, so DPS wise I dont really think lock is A tier over a fire mage, the dps is like 15-25 difference and mage has way better aoe than a warlock, Warlock does have Recklessness that saves them but from a DPS perspective definitely not a entire tier above
Smite priest! Come on blizz it was a legit spec but meme status. Hope we get runes p2
Does this guy do no research? Watershield is a glove rune that you would have to take over molten blast
How are you getting warriors to have 1k deep wounds?
If you cant get threat as a warlock tank youre doing it wrong lol i even keep pace with our enhance shaman.
Absolutely, Warlock tank is absolutely insane, I do it every week, and just top dps on about half of the fights.
@@TaintPUNCH53 I did the incinerate lake of fire build a couple times and I just tried everlasting affliction and it felt so much better. Damage is great too
@@peterc2672 Life drain, Incen, Meta, There is not a person in this game that could pull threat off of my warlock, we clear this raid in sub 45 every week, just found out warlock tank is the absolute best on every boss, our warriors can do mass damage and me as our tank, I just parse the whole time. makes it easier when your tank can pull more dps than 90% of the raid. AOE is no problem either, You tab / Searing pain.
Lock tank is insane. If both a lock tank and shaman tank throw everything they have at one mob, the lock will win in the threat battle. There's really no competition in single target threat. Maybe a geared warrior.
water shield if youre tanking a boss, molten blast if you're tanking a group of mobs. mana is no issue as a sham tank.
Dont forget shieldmastery. I have No downtimes, Just blocking my Mana full.
@@michelhese9417 sometimes with only shield block, mana can get low on single target from bad rng. water shield allows you to spam abilities more imo
Omg this was sooo good love how u went into detail on the classes etc…i mean we already know the obvious so this was perfect
I just ran an 8 dps bfd. Super fast and smooth. It was prot pally+disc priest.
Idk on my server warlock tanks run the show, havent seen a warrior tank bfd yet. Only pallies and locks.
Seems like someone had 1 or two before they made this. Love it though lol.
What all this go-through logs really tells is that people will do anything to pump additional dmg and some people have to sacrifice their dmg in order to let others pump their dmg so they can top a stupid meter, instead of going for what brings the most dmg for the total raid and clear it the fastest.
Shamans have to choose between Molten Blast and Water Shield not Shield Mastery and Water Shield. Shamans have mana issues when they have to AoE tank and can't run Water Shield.
Could anyone elaborate on the holy paladins being ret spec? Or send a link cheers
No mention of melee hunter?!
As far as next phase : hunters were generally top dps at level 60 fresh going into MC. The reason was because Beastial wrath is incredibly OP, even in OG classic, especially before other classes scaled up with insane late tier raid gear. but now it’s going to be even more beastly because short fights, pet scaling, AND bm rune. So I think full melee hunter with 31 points bm at lvl 40 will crush next phase
While I agree BM is probably going to be crazy next phase with their talents, why would full melee be the way? Even the top melee-hunter parses right now are just mischaracterized ranged hunters who melee-weave.
AYO is that that guy that lost world first in ICC cuz their group sucked?
Did a pug with 2 Feral Tanks. It wasn't bad tbh, and I say that as a 0-6-10 resto shaman who essentially solo healed the raid thanks to a leech priest who was afk most of it
their issue isn't survivability. Their issue is threat. They do the lowest threat by quite a bit right now and this becomes very apparently if you have a high damage group. Their utility is also severely hindered by stupid shit like needing to shapeshift out for form to do basically anything at all. For example: fearie fire, use any consumable, rebirth, etc. If your druid is leaving bear form for any reason while tanking there is a chance they just immediately die.
@@kylesmith987a macro pretty much fixes that tbh. i take consumes all the time and am instantly back into bear.
Mages should be in the tier above next to destro locks, like their dps is comparable in boss fights but for trash they are gods and leveling they are gods. They definitely should be A tier just because they excell in those parts of the game, if it is just a parse tier list I do agree.
As far as the tanks go this tier list doesn’t make any sense to me but maybe it’s controversy to boost engagement.
wish someone would make a prediction tier list for phase 2 on dps with 31 talents alone. Runes will change that for sure but still would be interesting to see.
Hunters will be top then get nerfed into the ground and warriors will be top after that
Not a lot is going to change. Maybe hunter S tier again.
@@OMGiTzSpAnKywhy would hunter be S tier? Just curious
@@051biohaz hunters downscale super hard, they aren't even top right now because other ppl already have some gear. Hunters will for sure be middle/low tier dps next phase (assuming same runes).
Physical will be top again and caster garbage in raids. blizzard cant balance casters
i love the sword art online music always in the background
Perfect review, was cool to listen to
Um...water shield rune is an hand rune. So, give up Molton Blast? I can see that for single target, but not AOE.
How much adderall to you take before doing these videos?
Pvp ranks
Affliction lock?
Disc priest with Pom and penance is the best healer by 40 miles
they have the same healing as druids and less damage. They just have more mana efficient healing so they're more viable as a solo healer.
Clueless. I solo heal on my mage and do much more dps than druids/priests
@@radenkovic2856 I said priest is the best healer by far. Didn’t say anything about dps bro
@@JaredGofftheman yes. But I can solo heal the whole raid on my mage, like a priest would. While outdamaging him during the raid. So I don't see how a priest is better.
@@radenkovic2856 cuz Bfd is so easy anyone can heal. But in terms of pvp as well, priest miles ahead
Shaman tanks lose their AOE threat bread and butter (Molten Blast) to take water shield to deal with their mana issues. Shield Mastery is Chest, while Water Shield and Molten Blast are gloves.
at the end of the day people just have fun with whatever floats your boat fuuuuuuuuuuuuuukkkk these tier lists
Wild Growth is strong upon cast. But casting it costs 286 mana. A Priest can cast almost 4 PoM's with that.
Sarthe shaman simping? I never thought I would see the day.
What talents/runes are best for the “ret tank” mentioned in the video? I assume all points into ret tree and for runes: taunt, d storm and exo/shield swap avenger shield?
I'm main tanking as ret currently, I took 5 in improved devotion aura and the rest in ret to get seal of command. I figured the armor is better than some extra crit. You don't really need improved speed but if you can't live without it than three in devotion aura. If your healers are Chad's then you can probably go full ret but your contribution to DPS is minimal and I prefer non stop pulling and rather give the healers any extra mana. Pallies are so OP at tanking right now it feels like there's plenty of flexibility in your talent choices.
Fury warriors at 60 with wild strikes are about to be insane.
And we don't even know what these runes are looking like yet it could be ignorant.
I’m astonished rogue didn’t get nerfed and is still OP as fuck, if not even more than ever 😂
It’s takes so little skill to min/max compared to like any other class too rofl, easy, cheap, OP, I love it 🎉
Spam saberslash, parse best
@@Rated_Gnar indeed indeed 😄 then go wreck other characters who aren’t as geared/don’t have the cheap class abilities you do 🤣
Honestly I thought it was gonna be feral DPS that was going to get the boost, and rogues we’re gonna go from being top tier to mid, but I guess blizzard knows it’s fanbase/ players 😅
Omen of Clarity procs every 30 seconds afaik. You can't get 3 in a 30 seconds fight. But I pretty much agree with this ranking.
warrior far on top but now lets nerf hunters again
Unless you think it doesn't matter that hunters can kill people instantly and warriors can't then yes nerf hunters.
You have too pve and pvp class stop crying poozy
@@1776huckleberry someone's never been crit by a warrior and hit with the epic sword proc at the same time. 600 damage crits from warriors....
@@adamforbes8652 600 crits from hunters pets as hunters shoot 500 crits with epic bow. Their op in pvp.
Imagine playing anything other than warrior in Classic WoW lmao.
Our main raid tank is a feral druid and he is great. Dude soaks crazy damage...great tank.
Why not arguing about hybrid druid? fury of stormrage (wrath), starsurge and wild growth glyph being kinda like mage
thank you man :)
Water shield rune is hand slot, shield mastery is chest. You don't need shield for any of it. You DW rockbitter with fast daggers and generate infinite threat. Mana is hardly an issue with water shield. Your runes are DW spec, WS, and Way of earth. I parse 95+ as Shaman tank.
As for Rogue and Warrior tank, I disagree with your ranking. Warriors are by far the best tanks, at least of the 3 classes I've tanked with. I dish out way more dps on my warrior tank than I do on my Shaman and aoe threat is not an issue for any of the fights in BFD. You don't even run molten blast as a Shaman (your godly aoe threat rune since WS is too important). As for Rogues, their single target threat is excellent, their mitigation is excellent, and they deal massive dps while tanking. Personally, I would put Warrior first, Rogue second, and Shaman third, but all 3 feel amazing.
Warlock has threat issues and doesn't provide interrupts, which makes it worse tank than the above 3.
Sooo shamans can tank now and mage has a heal specc?
My Boomkin SLAPS in BFD, usually top 3 dps each run with decked out hunters/warriors/rogues etc...
would love a video like that for feral druid
Didn't mention survival
Savix won raid challenge with feral tank.
Druid is S, without Mangle and Windfury, the War/Rogue and BM hunters would lose a chuck of damage.
BM literally gets no benefits from those
I was not sure it pets got the wild strikes, and only mentioned as most of the highest parsing hunters melee weave.@@formatomi
Prot warrior is easy S tier.
Hello, thanks for the video. There is one point about warrior that you should bear in mind, I have different characters that wear leather, silk and a paladin. It's crazy how fast it goes to gear as a mail bearer because at the moment on alliance side there is only warrior and paladin that can wear it.
On hord side, warrior have the monopoly of mail ! I think it is important to take into account than warriors are stronger also because their is less competition on the loot and they are able to be full gear easily.
what is he talking about priest and monkey i dont understand what he mean
Guy play what u like if u are good at ur class u are alwys prefered to a generic clone whas like that for ever.. u bring utility and raid leaders line to have options.
Why do people continue to create a tier above S...
He kept saying "shaman tanks just don't run shield mastery, use water shield instead." 1- Shield mastery is a chest rune, water shield is a glove rune. 2- you also lose all your AOE threat if you use it, because molten blast is also a glove rune. 3- Removing shield mastery makes you so much squishier, it isn't even close to worth it. You lose a mana regen engine, a stacking armor buff, 10% flat chance to block, and 15% block value.
Hey if you say something you dont need to say it 2 or 3 more times again right after
Where that melee weave video lol ❤
i think its kinda lame they didnt make tauren palladins and dwarf shamans or just put BE and DRANEI into the game its season of discovery not season of lets only have 6 classes and 4 races
Lets be honest, if you added all the extra damage from everyones windfury procs and extra damage from Mangle debuff, Feral dps would be the highest dps in the game.
I’m no bc blessing of light upgraded adds even more damage
When building a raid you don't really care about an individuals DPS, but the overall DPS. If you reframe it, all those windfury procs are actually your DPS and you should feel good for your contribution of unlocking the potential of the raid.
Ff14 logs have a dps meter with that included. Would be pretty cool if they would add that.
Warriors OP for twenty years…let’s nerf hunters 10 times
Cry more.
@@autman spoken like a selfish warrior main
Retail mentality. If the only thing you care about is raiding, yes, warrior is absolutely OP. But in classic, unlike retail, things other than raiding matter and hunters far outshines warriors in nearly every other aspect of the game.
Let's make hunter into a melee class, let's make it so their pet can't draw aggro off them. Let's make their pet get oneshot by dungeon bosses and other players in PvP. Let's remove their mana bar so they're far more restricted by another resource. Let's remove freezing traps and feign death. Then we're on somewhat even ground and can discuss making hunter do the same damage as warriors. Or perhaps you wouldn't want 9/10 things you like about hunter to be gutted into the floor only so they can do the same DPS as warriors as still be balanced?
Really, I urge you to level a warrior and soloq some BGs. Do some open world PvP in Ashenvale. Farm some dungeons, make a silly attempt at farming RFK where you'll just die instantly. Enjoy the leveling experience. You'll come to appreciate what hunters have which warriors don't.
If you still think it isn't justified for warriors to do more damage after all that, maybe it's really time for you to go to retail and play a game with more homogenized specs where everyone has the same capabilities in solo play, PvP and PvE. Or you accept that warriors excel at 1 thing more than any other class and is worse at 9/10 things compared to any other class, and realize that the piss easy raids in classic isn't the be all end all of classic WoW, but merely a small part of the entirety of the classic experience where hunters have it better in almost every single aspect compared to almost all classes.
@@hampustornros Or... they could balance the classes to perform well in pve content. Yes hunter can solo things, yes hunter can do pvp quite well. Hunter is also the only pure dps in SoD so they obviously should do some of the best damage. They have ONE role. There's also the fact that newsflash buddy: A lot of people, myself included, fucking loathe pvp. So if I'm getting told that "Well I guess you should enjoy the fact your class is good in these aspects of the game that you don't like and suck it up" then I'm obviously not going to be happy with that answer.
@@cerberus6400 Boiling the game down to only 1/10th of its content and using that 1/10th to try and justify hunter buffs is literally what you're doing. I've got a game that does EXACTLY that for you. It's retail.
In this phase warriors get to be gods for 40 minutes out of every 3 days. Outside of those 40 minutes, they spend the rest of every reset being the worst class in the game by far. Hunters? They get to be the 3rd best DPS in the game while being gods for every second outside of those 40 minutes. Warriors are gods for 40 minutes every 3 days. Hunters are a high A tier for 40 minutes and then gods for 4280 minutes. You do the math, figure out if that favors hunters or not.
Hunters are brought to raid because they have a specific role and are an essential part of a raid team, warriors and rogues are in most part ONLY brought for their damage.
There's two types of feral druids. The first one in the group, and the rest. The first one in the group is the one true god all the other gods look up too and worship.
Yes sir warriors are the best
Way to leave us melee hunters out ya Bastid!!! I’ve been pullin #1 dps spot in our admittedly casual guild as full melee hunter….using wolf with furious howl rank 2, manually activating to make sure it’s always used with flanking.
its funny the top spriest parses are about the same as the tanks in their group, some below haha
alot of the problems is everything good in the shadow tree is down the bottom, coupled with all dmg spells getting new ranks at lvl 26 and 28, we come alive at 40 bracket ;)
Just wait . And all other classes shuld go hide in the mines of ab once shadowprist hit 40 and pvp.. only 3 weeks away.
Hunter melee ?¿?¿?¿
If you run water shield which doesn't affect your ability to have Shield master you wont be able to use Molten blast which is why were so good at AoE. So if you don't run shield mastery then what rune do you put on the chest?
People fail to realise that hunters only fall off because melee get WF, which doesn’t buff our pets… and battle shouts from wars etc
As always, same as era. Hunter just started higher in sod but have way less scaling opportunity
Mates want to switch to alliance. Still dont know what i want to play there... :D got druid and war on horde. But new way can be a new chance...but we all dont know what is a good and "bad" flass in Phase 2:D
You forgot BM hunter tank/OT. Solid A tier.
I solo tank as warlock, but AoE threat requires Big Bronze Bombs, which is getting expensive. I also dps as balance, which obviously is pretty behind on dps in the raid, but it's so much fun to play.
I'd suggest Heavy Dynamite over Big Bronze. You can move while casting them and they do more dmg than BIG Bronze.
Hunter + wind serpent does well against the turtle.
Your thumbnail is toxic because it implies there's a "wrong" choice. Its phase 1 and the raid is stupid easy. Chill tf out dudes, play what you have fun with.
Phase one is end game right now. And the current state of endgame is a little indicative of next phase. People like to know where their class and other classes stand. You're the one who needs to chill lol
@@twinyuccas9286 I mean, each class has more to offer than being number on the meters but hey what do I know
Facts don't care about your feelings.
Lil bro says it's toxic cuz everyone isn't having fun the same way he is. Irony is not this kids strong suit.
anyone who is worried bout gearscore or logs at lvl 25 is the reason gaming has gone to shit when gear dps and class meta is affecting prog then you can worry but if you aint playing for fun you should go play FPS games you meta loser
I love my rogue!
No love for melee hunter in SOD, I'm pulling higher dps than ranged hunters on almost every fight in my groups. People be lolling at me when I say I'm melee, but I'm slapping
Priest needs a mana back spell or will useless agian ( mainly shadow)
Nah, shadow priest absolutely melts. They are OP.
Edit: in PvP, is what i meant
Give them a rune that makes mindblast cast while moving and procs spirit tap. Done and done
Bruh give it a month when they unlock lvl 40 not every spec needs to be good right now
will cope expecting something for mana as a shadowform linked rune at 40 so healers can't abuse it, if not shadow will remain a D tier pve spec, even a worse spot than classic if locks aren't running shadow spells 😂
Bosses die in two minutes and you don't have enough mana for it? You got 50 intellect or something?
Do one for warsong gulch
Well warson premades take 3 hunters and 3 priests
Hunter, Priest, FC. There ya go. Fill the rest with whatever tickles your pickle.
Sarthe please don't say muh class is bad... I don't have half of my kit unlocked yet...shaman pain...oh and all the cast speed reduction talents are 25 points deep in the talent tree...