Is This Language Replacing Python?!
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- Опубліковано 19 чер 2024
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Can this unreleased programming language, Mojo, replace Python? Even though much of my content is focused on Python, it still has plenty of limitation that leads to more experienced programmers using other languages. Stay tuned to learn how Mojo matches up to Python and hear what I believe will happen!!
Mojo Website: www.modular.com/mojo
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🎬 Timestamps⏱️
00:00 | I Love Python
00:35 | Introducing Mojo
01:18 | Docker Init
02:34 | What We Know About Mojo
05:16 | The Problems With Python
07:13 | Mojo Code & Features
12:54 | My Thoughts on Mojo
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Won’t matter something somewhere will go wrong no matter what, usually it’s some asshole waiting on just the right moment to attack what I am doing.
I’m so fucking done with these Hindu fucks
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The guy who invented Swift and LLVM is leading the Mojo project. It's going to be really big
Lex Friedman has a good interview with Chris Lattner the project lead mentioned.
Im pretty new to programming and learning python as my first language. Once this language is out I will be using it. Hopefully, I can use Mojo in pycharm.
@@JohnABradyThat’s not a real person
@@Stopinvadingmyhardware ?????
@@cipher01he means he's a robot.
Please about more content about Mojo! It is really amazing for me. I have benchmarked it in a simple scipt which loops from 0 to billion and conditionally adds or subtracts (adds on even, subtracts on odd) to show the raw performance. In Python it took ~1min to complete, on Mojo.... 800ms.
Because I'm retired...I went the other route, C -> VB -> C++ -> Python.
MoJo seems like it makes Threading & Multiprocessing easier to program.
Using both of these features in Python in the same app can be daunting.
However Python has "easy-to-learn" UI interfaces for standalone UI Apps.
That will probably be it's main use, multithreading.
Looks pretty interesting - I'd be interested in seeing the benchmark code running on my MBP. 😏
Hey Tim. Been following you off and on for a little over a year now. Got into python through your build a game tutorials. Really excited to see how MOJO might be able to solve a lot of the performance issues game developers using python encounter. Love my casual journey into programing and you are a big part of that. Thanks again man.
The "GiL" global interpreter lock will be "unlocked" in *Python 3.12* 🔓
Can't wait for that to finally happen.
I think the struct and fn are useful performance enhancement features even for regular python devs.
Tim, how about Nim? Do you have any experience with it?
Hey Tim, I just watched your video and I must say that it was really informative and well-made. I loved your videos. I was wondering if I could help you edit your videos and also make highly engaging shorts for you?
Are there any hints about what will be their licensing model?
No license
Finally, we have C++ and Python combined! Introducing... mojo! It's the perfect blend of raw power and simplicity, like a python that can bench press a tank. With mojo, we will experience the joy of writing code with the efficiency of C++ and the readability of Python. Say goodbye to long compile times and hello to snakes with super strength!
I'd like to see a comparison of compile methods and times.
Now is the time that we will discover that Python is plenty fast and more than performant enough for most of us
Nah
Hello Tim, please may I ask what software you use to screen record and have your face on the screen at the same time? I would really appreciate your response.
Dude, even your ads are useful!
Hope it doesnt gets forgotten like Nim
Love your content :)
var & Struct are C++ add-ins. 'Let' is from good old BASIC. I haven't done any serious programming since college but am taking a swing at Python for a few projects I have in mind. Hopefully, I'm not wasting my time with it.
Seems the real question is, will Python + Mojo replace everything else?
No
Haha
Python + Mojo: replace everything.
Rust: hold my beer
@@raidensama1511 I kinda want to rewrite Mojo in Rust.
Definitely not. Application specific languages will always be better in certain cases
Ohh my god. What happened to my boy. Went from 16 to 30 in just a couple of years.
I am really lucky with the shorts vid,
this is exactly what I needed
I got the news about Mojo, a superset of python 3 weeks ago. Then I realized it is not available yet. So,... play a waiting game. :)
I wonder how they'll bring these performance improvements to packages which are pip installed 😩
I don't know how it actually runs (JIT compiler?) but the improvements probably mainly come from strong typing, removing the need to figure out the type of each value at runtime.
@@caw25sha i'm always wondering why Python community didn't think of that to speed up the language. They could create a new typing language like Typescript and javascript.
@@badrenanna3961 they already exists pypy, cython etc
Simple syntax + C performance? Isn't that what Go is? Or at least what it suppose to be?
Beginning with Python 3.9, I've noticed significant performance enhancements. In fact, Python continues to be the go-to language for a wide range of coding projects (though I wouldn't necessarily extend this to mobile or gaming development).
I recall in one of your earlier videos you mentioned that certain companies might prefer individuals with programming expertise in specific languages that outperform Python - for instance, Go or Rust for backend development, Unity for gaming, and so on. I understand that; however, I would argue that when Python is optimally utilized, especially with its impressive multiprocessing capabilities, these other languages begin to pale in comparison.
Let me share an experience. I created a backend API using Python, integrated with Swagger redocs, and employed gunicorn to run it across four multiprocesses. Remarkably, the performance superseded Java by 1.5 times. Granted, it did require a slight increase in CPU usage, but this becomes trivial when you consider a few key factors:
1. The availability of Go, Rust, or Java developers and their respective compensation packages versus the time involved.
2. Development speed: I managed to develop and deploy the entire system in just two days, compared to a senior Java developer who took two weeks to complete a similar task. Funny enough we managed to save one vCPU per pod overall, although memory usage was slightly higher.
3. Ensuring business continuity.
Python remains a dominant force in the programming world, owing a great deal to its roots in C and C++. Personally, I would prefer coding in C++ over any other language, Python being the exception. In my opinion, that's the real power duo.
Availability of Java Devs? GO or Rust yea. Not many of them, but Java devs pool is very big.
@nieczerwony honestly Java devs need to move on to Kotlin. It's superior to Java in everyway.
I assume you used FastApi? Its pretty cool and flexible. Python is created for Flexibility.
Presumably Modular is a commercial company, which means Mojo will require a paid licence, at least for commercial use. It probably also means the Python foundation won't be able to adopt any ideas from Mojo. Also I'm very sceptical about the 35000 times faster claim. I've seen a few experiments where people write the same code in Python and C or C++ and they generally get improvements in the high hundreds. Hopefully we'll get answers to these concerns in due course.
agreed, a lot more we still need to learn
The 30k+ seems too good to be true for sure but if even half the expected results can be attained, I'm happy now if it's gonna cost more than 4 dozen eggs a month well I'll stick to Python also integration with Python will mosdef impact it's adoption. JMO but agree with ya.
@@repairstudio4940 For most people the slowness of Python is irrelevant as they shift stuff out to NumPy etc. As Tim said if this takes off it will probably mostly be used to build modules for use by Python rather than actually replacing Python.
Thank you for this comment. The hilarious part of this video is in the first 30 seconds. People don't move from Python to Java, especially if the complaint is speed. That made me laugh so hard that I immediately dismissed the remainder of the video and went straight to the comments.
Chris Lattner, the main creator of Mojo (and swift) has said that the plan is to open source the language when it is usable. The same is stated on the website as well. I think Go was also started as a private google language and eventually was open sourced and free to use. Even Swift is open source so if Lattner convinced Apple to do that, I trust his word on Mojo as well. The reality with Mojo though is that it is far from being ready to use let alone in production. That’s the important part imho.
What about MIT's Julia? It was supposed to kill Pyton several years ago
Afaik, julia is not a subset of python. It would not replace python. it would be like typescript for JavaScript which is better to use in production
@@muhammadzainabbasbaloch3200 But you can call any Python library you like from Julia. IMHO Julia's array syntax is a lot better than Python's and numpys and it's a lot faster. Julia for the win.
10:45 inout is an interesting keyword for pass by reference haha! I came for the fire emoji file extension 🔥
And then you have def and fn controlling this as well… 🔥
Great video. I think you should make more videos about mojo 😊
In tech what occupation would you stay is safe from being automatized by AI such as CHATGPT and outsourced? I'm thinking it cybersecurity?
A big selling is the lack of GIL but i wonder with a lot of noise around the gil-ectomy in python does it reduce the benefits of this language.
Sounds like Python with a Rust sauce over it.
It's the other way around. It's a new technology on the inside with Python syntax and compatibility on the outside.
Great video ! I like your take on the subject and the professionalism in your response. You know how to step back from the question knowing that the project is not completely there.
As you say, the language is made for AI and machine learning. The x35000 come from a calculation with the mandelbrot algorithm (as the site says) I am pretty sure it's about a computation that take hours or days and they optimized it into a high performance server (bar metal) to make it take less time (but that's just an hypothesis).
The main things that make me like it are:
- speed
- better integrated type system
- ownership system
- pointers
- structs
- immutability
As you say, it was meant to the dataschience/ML community but I am wondering if it can help for python devs. I hope to see if they will integrate more functional programming features. Have a nice week
Does Tim pay you to post replies like these?
@@RafiGish We can get paid for that ?? Where do I sign ?
Mojo seems promising, there was a recent Lex Friedman talk with the dev guy.
It looks a lot like Pyo3/Maturin for Python/Rust which shares many of the same advantages already and likely got it's inspiration from. This looks like an even closer integration, and the mojo side looks like the syntax is a little more Python and a bit of Rust. It looks really interesting and could be a game changer. I wonder what the license side will look like, at least for me that can be a big deal breaker, which just means I'll keep using Pyo3/Maturin.
Does RUST allow hyperthreading?
@@nwchrista fearless concurrency and parallelism.
Tim can you please create a tutorial series for this language. You have a level deep of understanding about python and this langauge has potential the capabilities for ant pythin use4🙏🏼
I don't see how this is this better than Cython. I've literally never had a problem debugging Cython and I have very limited C knowledge. I found it very easy to get started with Cython and I believe it's more than good enough to optimise in those very rare cases where the language is a bottleneck. 99% of the time though it's db queries or network latency that's the problem.
for you maybe not but mojo, has a very promising future, mainly because they are making the compiler smarter which in turns make the languages easier to optimise for AI research and other devs, (but mainly AI) which often rely on custom or very specialised hardware, like GPU, TPU etc, and previously one had to go figure what was the size of the registers on the cpu(s), refactor the code to take advantage of the line size of the cache, reformat to improve the branching prediction of the pre-fetcher, go and optimise the assembly to take advantage of the AVX512, or refactor to take advantage of the SSE2, to use the SIMD by reducing the long chain dependency of the code. I could go on but basically the guy behind MOJO, is the compiler god, he's the guy behind LLVM which is still today's standard for modern compiler backend, he's the guy behind swift, which is a really cool languages, better than C# for mobile dev. The guys is really good, and now he's working on making a superset of Python somewhat similar like C++ and C, so everything you've learned and used so far in python, will work fine with mojo, it will just go BRRRRRR and be faster
@@pierreollivier1Didn't understand a lot of what you said, but YES!
This sounds like a game-changer!
What a nice présentation !! Very good 🎉🎉
It has literally all features I miss in python. const values, strucs, an upgrade for the shitty type checking in Python, overload constructors. I hope they add something like c/c++ pointers.
I don't think they will add pointers because devs are "scared" of these 😅
I think its better to use C/C++ at that point.
Tim, will you do a Mojo tutorial for beginners, please?
35,000x sounds physically impossible. Not even c++ is that much faster.
one more con for python: considered easy to reverse engineer the compiled program. while in binaries such as c/go its harder
Most likely will
Especially considering there is 0 merit to use python over mojo other than compiling vs interpreting work flow
Make julia tutorials
I really hope that this will work
So, If I got this right, unlike Typescript, which just provides a transpiler to Javascript, Mojo will actually compile to bytecode, but will require its own runtime. In other words, is just like Java with Python syntax and some extra tooling to give you a more low level access, so you don't need to write in a different language (which is basically what JNA does for Java, not to be confused with JNI).
Mojo will compile to many targets including CPUs, GPUs, custom accelerators most of us don't even know about. This according to Lattner.
Lol does docker really need advertisements?
What if Python will make the dynamic type and static type co-exists?
I've seen a simple test about fibonacci between python and mojo, trying to get around the 20º digit of the fibonacci sequence, and Mojo was 6x faster. This is not as significant as 35 000x or that complex, but it's already quite a significant boost in speed.
Does your algorithm use memoization?
@@petrlaskevic1948 It wasn't anything mine, and the purpose of the code was specifically to compare Python and Mojo, not to write an efficient code.
What are your thoughts on CODON?
I use Shelve each game round to save data, which is very slow, so hoping Mojo will help speed things up in my turn-based strategy games.
Is it open source?
But what about Cython or other c extensions for Python ?
Aren't they important ?
Looking for this comment. Everyone's talking about Mojo like Cython doesn't exist. I think you're asking about compatability? For me it's just, what's the rationale for Mojo when Cython exists? In my experience, I can normally write my code in Python, profile it, and then re-write like 2% of that code in Cython and that's as much as is needed to deal with parts of the code where the language is actually a bottleneck, rather than network latency or db queries or whatever.
@@neildutoit5177
There is even IronPython by C# extension.
Why NOT people talk about it ?
We definitely need yet another language claiming to be better than Python.
He is not better, it fix it X)
Hi Tim plz create video about python flask mysql workbench login sign up ..i can't do plz make it easy..i m your fan ..u are awesome teacher
What about Julia programming language?
Most LLMs are based on Python, so if the claim that Mojo is 30,000x faster is at all true, it will change the AI race dramatically.
how about comparing go and mojo? any comments?
Excellent.
Do you think Mojo could be used for Mobile app dev?
Hey tim mojo is now available to download, plz make a tutorial video on it
Is python 4 next mojo?
Mojo looks a lot like Solidity.
I'll believe it when I see it. There's a reason peer reviews exist
If it's the same as Python, it can't be a replacement?
Not the same language, but shares the same syntax.
IF, which it isnt
It's a superset of Python with additional language features which Tim describes in this video.
Interesting times we living in
finally i can Sjoin 100000 rows of GIS shape in 10 minute
Finally I can leave my python to its orginal place in jungle and welcome Mojo
Julia, I believe will take over in the long term...
I’ll stick with Commodore BASIC for a bit longer I think
Yes it is. I'm so greatful python existed but Im sooo excited about MOJO!
I have been using NIm lately. the syntax is different from python, but just as elegant, and it has bare metal performance.
Yes, I immediately thought about Nim that would be a better replacement for python. I was also wondering about Zig as well.
You shoud have mentioned that docker desktop itself is not completely free.
I programmed in python and numpy for years. While I like Python, I absolutely hated how slow it was and inevitably converted my code to cython or even C. The GIL absolutely destroys parallelization however. You can't even get IO out to C fast enough to make it worthwhile.
In the end I fixed the 2 language problem by switching to Julia. Not only is Julia's syntax better, but it's very fast, competitive with C++, and I can call any python library I want from Julia, but I've been happy with native Julia libraries for machine learning. So I'm not seeing any reason to trade a reasonably mature and performant Julia with Mojo.
Julia?
Hi I am a software engineer in college for IT but I want to also learn game development but I do not not where to start i want to learn python for apps and softwares and C# for games and pc softwares as well I want to start with C# first because i know python is easy and not hard to learn if you know a language already but I want to learn C# for game development and software apps I wanted to know if anyone knew any update courses or tutorials for beginners I do software engineering and also want to do indie game development solo i know that’s hard but I want to try it I really want to be a software engineer and a indie game developer but I don’t know where to start with game design or programming
Some of us do not like the syntaxe of python. Hard to believe, but true.
cool video)
mojo is now available locally
this is 18/9/2023
I don't think people realize how big of a deal this is. I think this might be the biggest advancement in software in 20 years and we'll look back at this time as the beginning of a new era. Python will absolutely dominate the next 10 years because of this advancement. The fact that you can get access to all the features of rust / cpp in a language with all the latest advancements in mlir means there is a smooth dev path from experiments to production. I don''t need to worry about having to experiment in python and then rewrite it in a compiled language, I just need to update my code to add better memory management / types / optimizations and I can get better performance than rust / cpp... You get the best of all worlds with this language and I think it is going to be a while till another language strikes this type of balance between easy of use and performance. Anyone else excited about kb sized wasm binaries from python?
100%
The fact that you don't need to learn another language with a different syntax is the sticking thing for me.
Love Python ❤.
my question is, is it true a colon can never be overloaded?❤
Can you compare Mojo and Julia?
Unreleased product with overhyped marketing? I am going to bet that the director of modular will get fired.
The creator created Swift and LLVM. I trust him 100%.
no
With all these i am confused of what to learn
I think first I can't learn Python on professional level, how I can start learning Mojo. For me first of all Python, and then another languages.
This looks promising - definitely want to use it for command line tools and desktop apps.
Yes
I see you guys just ghosted Julia.
Coming from more of an operations and sysadmin/config background - using "on fire" as your extension isn't... ideal.... Trust me, I can still smell the capacitors on a windy day.
well u cal also just use "mojo", it think its for just a gimmick, but it does work
Meantime, try the Julia Programming Language. As fast as C/Fortran... looks like Python.
When Java came out, people were saying C will disappear, that was in the mid 90's (about 30 years ago). The same was said in due times for JavaScript, for Java, for C#, for VBA, for Pearl, the list goes on. But the truth is, all of them are still around. Maybe some developers will move onto new languages (maybe we will have to move to quantum programming languages one day), but I won't get overexcited about MoJo. They are marketing it as 'AI-development' language.
Ah,... I am a dinosaur, what do I know about progress?!
True but if you look more closely, Mojo isn't a random guy's garage project, behind it is Chris Lattner, the guy who created LLVM, which is now the backend for a lot of modern compilers, He created swift, which is still a very popular and appreciated language. He's bringing very nice features to Python making it way more powerful, the aim is to make it easier to write code, rely less on C libraries, and have a better use of the specialised hardware. So even if you are not into AI, you'll most likely benefit from using Mojo instead of python
I think Python is more or less the BASIC of the 21st century, and much more versatile.
What's with the clickbait titles these days?
Gotta play the game unfortunately. Would love to post more to the point titles and thumbnails but as evident by the history of my channel many people don’t watch those. If everyone started clicking on non clickbait titles I’d happily use them.
Who moves from Python to C++? Tons of people ditch C++ and settle with Python for work that doesn’t require max speed.
Everything sounds great, although it is a bit disappointing that they changed passing by reference into passing by value in fn functions. They are expecting people to have to remember all the time that def and fn use different strategies.
Sorry, guy, but saying that this will prevent beginners from making some mistakes is a fallacious argument. It's making the language worse on the presumption that beginners are dumb. Let beginners learn what passing by reference is. Now, they will still have to learn this for def functions AND they will have to learn that def is different from fn.
Who remembered Mojo jojo 💀
This may be a stupid question, but why would Mojo only be interesting for AI and low level programming? If it performs so much better than Python, would there be any reason not to use it?