Lessons from Singapore and Reopening The United States
Вставка
- Опубліковано 11 лип 2024
- Singapore had one of the world's most robust and effective responses to coronavirus and COVID19. Despite that, the country still had to enter lockdown and struggled to control the spread of the disease. What can this tell us about how the US has responded, and how and when American society can reopen?
Related HCT episodes:
Benchmarks for Reopening America: • Paul Romer's Coronavir...
Be sure to check out our podcast!
• Podcast
Other Healthcare Triage Links:
1. Support the channel on Patreon: vid.io/xqXr
2. Check out our Facebook page: goo.gl/LnOq5z
3. We still have merchandise available at www.hctmerch.com
4. Aaron's book "The Bad Food Bible: How and Why to Eat Sinfully" is available wherever books are sold, such as Amazon: amzn.to/2hGvhKw
Credits:
John Green -- Executive Producer
Stan Muller -- Director, Producer
Aaron Carroll -- Writer
Mark Olsen - Art Director
Tiffany Doherty -- Writer and Script Editor
Meredith Danko - Social Media
#healthcaretriage #coronavirus #covid
A South Korean living in Singapore, I agree that Singapore has been excellent with handling the Covid-19 virus. South Korea may have done well to flatten the initial curve with the tracing and testing method but that doesn't mean the fight against the virus is over anytime soon. Anyways, considering the limited manpower and resources, I feel Singapore is already doing fantastic in secluding and testing the Foreign workers while trying to keep community cases low.
Whether I am back home in South Korea or here in Singapore, I would feel safe in both countries. Thank you Singapore and stay strong 🇸🇬🇰🇷🇺🇸
I dont mean to be so offtopic but does anyone know of a tool to get back into an instagram account?
I stupidly forgot the login password. I would appreciate any tricks you can offer me
It's worth noting that Singapore's current daily infection rate is averaging at 500-700 a day. Totalling 33000 since the start of the pandemic largely due to robust and aggressive testing, picking up every single case where possible. 99% of them are migrant workers already in quarantine facilities for more than a month which means they cannot infect others outside the quarantine facilities. Community transmission amongst those not under quarantine averages 5-7 cases daily. So far all migrant workers were cared for and provided meals daily ensuring that no one goes hungry. Government stepped in to ensure that they have food and salary even if they are unable to work. Each quarantine facilities has its own medical team to provide medical care for the migrant workers. Masks were distributed to all living in Singapore (> 5 million). This include workers who are non Singaporeans. Never seen before economic stimulus packages were rolled out to help all citizens and business entities. Charity organisations were also receiving help. All front line medical personnel were given full protection gears and additional bonuses for their sacrifices. Singapore is now entering phase 1 of economic reopening - 30% workforce allowed to restart from 2 June. If all goes well, Singapore will be almost fully reopened by late June or July. This is an all-of-government approach needed in every single country. Not every single step listed above will work for every country but all-of-government approach is needed no matter what. The world needs to fight this together.
The Singapore government is not God and they cannot predict the future. They have made some good moves and also some mistakes along to way which is why I mentioned that they are not God. They do make mistakes. However, they have mostly achieved what its citizens, who voted them into parliament, wants them to do. That is to lead the country during good and bad times.
Agreed
We had the best reaction but it is hard controlling because we survive on imported resources but from 2000 something per day to 500 is better than last time, plus dengue is on alert and due to our weather, dengue can come to you easily and it is hard to take care of a nation that hardly has resources and at the same time facing quite a few problems
Bravo Singapore👏👏
I’m from 🇸🇰 Slovakia - tiny, poor, corrupted country in middle Europe - today we had 0 new infections since the first positive test 2 months ago😃👏 I hope we’ll be fine 🙏 and I honestly wish things get better in USA ... It’s not only about what government orders, it’s as well about people - every single person’s behaviour is important to protect oneself and others 🤟let’s be responsible and disciplined 🤜🤛 we’re in this together!!!💚🌎
I hope we get better too. Not for only for America but for the people that America protects. If Americans are not healthy then we can't be available to defend the free world.
there is no case if there is no one being tested... big brain moment. :)
zofia kosut fantastic
There are two factors that don't get discussed enough, that I think underpin the different successful containment and mitigation strategies:
1- early action.
2- citizen compliance.
It seems that those two are more correlated with successful mitigation than any specific mitigation measure. Some countries lockdown and it doesn't stop the virus. Some countries don't lock down and don't have a huge problem. And whatever measures you go with, they work better when people comply with them.
+
I think the biggest factor is that if you’re under 60 and healthy you’ll probably be okay, over 60 or unhealthy you’re at huge risk. One cohort largely works and studies the other cohort is largely retired. Surprising we can’t seem to manage a strategy that balances death via economic collapse and death by disease given that.
@@AlexSmith-gr4hp you do know that perfectly healthy young folks are getting strokes and heart attacks when otherwise asymptomatic, right? and that kids have been really weird rashes and purple toes and crap?
BadgerPride89 yes I do. But not a lot in the scheme of things. It's an impossible decision for law makers and they'll err on the side of saving lives from Covid but the lives lost from missed treatment, suicide, economic hardship are mounting also which will seem indirect to them but are nonetheless real. And the question remains, are those lived saved or are we merely delaying. The trend I observe from old pandemics (e.g. Spanish flu) is always being too slow to lock down and too slow to open back up again. Always due to human factors in not wanting to seem to do the wrong thing.
@@AlexSmith-gr4hp There's this thing that other countries are doing called paying people to stay home, rent moratoriums, no payments to utilities, etc. I think that would do way more to alleviate the economic hardships than forcing people back into unsafe, untested work spaces, don't you? The whole point was to use the lockdown to ramp up testing, tracing, shoring up the medical system so that hospitals don't get overwhelmed, and figuring out how to do healthcare safely and remotely. The Trump admin has wasted all of that time and effort while simultaneously worsening conditions on the ground for workers and people. This is not an either/or situation. This is a failure of leadership, full stop.
Also, by the by, the cities in the US that locked down fully and opened slowly during the Spanish Flu experienced a better recovery than cities which didn't.
singapore represent!! grateful to live somewhere i can feel safe and where the government (for all their faults) have been working round the clock/pioneering new tech/pushing out support to the struggling.
but seriously tho. we failed our migrant brothers through many mistakes long ago and they’re paying a high price. it sucks. i’m proud of what our nation has done but. we’re definitely not a star example.)-:
Sadly the one eyed man is king in the land of the blind.
And while having both is preferable, from the blind's perspective even one would be a blessing XD
You can keep your lockdown. Awful behavior from a country.
Fellow Singaporean here, kinda hurting that the western media think that we lost control but without pushing new tech, 24/7 work, transparent governance and supportive citizens (mostly), we will be able to overcome this virus!
@@1DangerMouse1 Mind you, it's not a lockdown. Its a Circuit Breaker. ;)
I have a proposal. Replace US two party system with People's Action Party for a better America. Better yet replace the CCP with PAP the world would be far better off!
Singaproean here
1) Our mistake seems to be with how we handled foreign worker dorms outside of covid measures (their working conditions etc)
if you look at the beakdown of our cases, there's usually less than 10 cases outside of foreign worker dorms, partially why they are segregated from the other population here; to keep the spread contained
2) Our lock down is not exactly a lock down, maybe like a lockdown lite, however most places requires recording when we enter to facilitate contact tracing if needed. Singaporeans are quite used to the government having our information so that part was not that difficult to implement
The measures such as keeping a distance at restaurants and group gatherings were completely not allowed a bit after it blew up
3) Our "lock down" (we called it circuit breaker ) might have been too late. Additionally, I think we also failed to do contact tracing for folks infected before their symptoms showed, like we only check who they came in contact with after their symptoms started, but not before (I am not completely sure on this point, worth to check it)
4) Our experience from SARS helped a lot
5) of course, it also helps a lot that out government did give a one time payout to all our citizens according to how much we earn(Giving more if we earn less), as well as avenues for more aid if needed, such as if you lost your job from this or if you're self-employed
Honestly, I, despite not always agreeing with our government (some people say that they are out of touch because of the background of most ministers etc), I am pretty darn proud of what they have done with regard to COVID 19
we also have no issues disbursing pay-outs to citizens quickly because the government already has most of our bank account details on records for transfers- a system that has been in place for quite some time, and no doubt having a smaller population has helped with the speed and ease of that implementation
Singaporean here too staying in Serangoon (haha...)
I am currently serving in the military and I was part of the armada that was deployed to pack and supply masks to the grassroots within the population
To add some things the government did that was not mentioned in this video:
1) The second round of mask distribution will be taking place in a few days using dedicated vending machines to minimise face to face contact.
2) The military was mobilised for contact tracing too after the police in the initial stages. 1-5 teams were quickly upgraded to 20 teams of contact tracers once the problem started to spiral out of control.
3) 3 budgets were rolled out in the span of 3 months that provided aid and immediate relief... Most subscribe to the rhetoric that "if we solve the health crisis, only then can we solve the economic crisis", I disagree. The immediate relief, that managed to be distributed within weeks with little forms to be filled or bureaucracy, allowed Singaporeans to be at ease and not want to scramble back to work as we have seen in the US. Compliance towards the law is high because people don't see a need to break the law due to sufficient aid being given.
4) The leadership provides an assurance that many leaders in other nations lack. The prime minister only comes out to make big announcements. He does not go into policy details but instead spends time reassuring the population that the situation is under control and admits when it's not as he did so in early April.He leaves minor details to his ministers in press conferences. The message from all levels of leadership in the government is consistent and clear.
Also, I second the point on the foreign worker dorms. The community cases outside foreign worker compounds have remained single digits for the last week and look very promising. I would excuse the government for overlooking the dorms in the initial stages since those were not a problem when we went through SARS. In fact, I am quite proud to be a Singaporean in this time and am quite amazed at how we handled this crisis so far
I have a proposal. Replace US two party system with People's Action Party for a better America. Better yet replace the CCP with PAP the world would be far better off!
Rechard kk it doesn’t work that way dude
If anything I’d argue that our success is more due to our size, many other leaders would be able to do similar if their country was as small as singapore
@@arecus54 Take into account population density:
Macau (Population density: 21,055/km²)
Monaco (Population density: 19,150/km²)
Singapore (Population density: 8,109/km²)
Hong Kong (Population density: 6,677/km²)
Gibraltar (Population density: 5,620/km²)
Bahrain (Population density: 2,052/km²)
Vatican City (Population density: 1,820/km²)
Maldives (Population density: 1,719/km²)
Malta (Population density: 1,390/km²)
Sint Maarten (Population density: 1,234/km²)
worldpopulationreview.com/countries/countries-by-density/
All the medical information with none of the fluff. I love Healthcare Triage.
I also love that you have Stephen R. Lawhead's Arthur books on your shelf.
The Covid19 death rate in Singapore is very low compared with the US.
R L At present, the death rate for Singapore is 0.069%, compared to 5.8% for the US.
I don’t see federal interest. And I live in GA and work in a hotspot and I still feel the loss of a cohesive intention within the broader community.
when millions have died and everyone has lost someone they know, then we will begin to think about creating a committee to begin to think about beginning to think about doing something.
Anon archist and by the point anything is scaled up and operating, 3 million will have died.
I have a proposal. Replace US two party system with People's Action Party for a better America. Better yet replace the CCP with PAP the world would be far better off!
@@RichardVrong876 🤪🤺
Yep.
These people dont even want to wear a mask. Good luck asking them to download a app for tracking
Hahaha you're right, I guess there's a lot of people who don't see their freedoms like toilet paper right?
The thing is that you could make it app not give away personal information including your location
The majority of the people I see wearing masks wear them improperly, missing loops, not covering the nose, and they touch the mask with their hand. That's ignoring all the other times when in private they could be contaminating the mask making its benefits moot.
Masks can introduce other peoples such as headaches or migraines, in extreme cases, people can pass out due to lack of oxygen. The last month in New Jersey a man passed out well driving and crashed his car. A coworker of mine today was talking about how a girl passed out at a coffee shop due to wearing a mask for too long.
Much like there has never been a vaccine for any coronavirus so it weird there will be one for COVID, the masks are not a solution, its a stopgap at best.
@@woodchuck003 That seems to be the very reason why our experts over here do not recommend mask. They simply do not trust the average person to wear them properly so that actually is a greater risk then no mask at all.
@@Medhead101 Poor Typhoid Mary. If only you had been there to defend her freedom.
We are blessed to have a good government in Singapore. Any government who really cares for their citizens will always try to make the effort.... Unless the government really don't care.
The US has volunteered to show the world what response is inadequate
I missed this episode and was really looking for something to help calm my nerves today. In a weird way, this did. Please keep making great content for us.
2:54 this actually exists in Singapore. we have tracetogether which is a general location thing via bluetooth, and safeentry which all customers entering and leaving the supermarket or other essential stores have to sign in and out.
our numbers have indeed gone up exponentially due to spread within foreign worker dormitories which are cramped and social distancing is impossible, definitely a massive oversight of the govt.
overall im happy community transmission around the entire island has been kept low, but its unfortunate that our migrant workers are bearing the brunt of the virus, but with isolation facilities and also these workers being young and healthy, a large majority will fortunately recover.
Well said! You've saved me a comment explaining why we've had to go into lockdown 👍
I have a proposal. Replace US two party system with People's Action Party for a better America. Better yet replace the CCP with PAP the world would be far better off!
@@RichardVrong876 Once you have the PAP in power, groupthink will prevail and there if a law is passed without challange and it screws up, the ministers will never apologize and call it an oversight while the commoners who do this will get fired.
Generally, the level of trust and cooperation scores high in Singapore than in most other countries. Even when lives are at stake, most other countries find it challenging to implement contact tracing without stirring the hornet nests - Data ethics, privacy and misuse dilemmas.
@@RichardVrong876 Singapore's system is a close kin of CCP, so there's no need to change in fact... 🤣🤣🤣
Some very good points that I hope people in charge take to heart. Even if I have my doubts they will, it's still good to have examples of places that are doing something better to learn from.
Back here in March 2021. No new cases of community spread for a while now. Vaccination roll out has been systematic, with deliberate planning for priority recipients. The country has been steadily adapting and innovating to protect citizens and jobs, and is getting ready for opening up. Shops, malls, restaurants and other businesses are all working with safe distancing and tracking measures in place. Hospitals have not been overwhelmed at any time due to the combination of measures and public understanding and cooperation. Masks have been and are still ubiquitous because their use was informed by trust in public health experts and not politicised! Folks here are very lucky to have an enlightened and responsible leadership that harnessed technology and resources to look after its people. They were smart to comply with the collective good in mind. There is no benefit to impatience, unscientific thinking and selfish attitudes in a global pandemic.
Montana is trying a similar route, 2,000 tests per day, aggressive contact tracing using nurses and the National Guard, mandatory quarantines for out of state travelers, so far it's going well, MT has lowest per capita case rate & 16 deaths for a population of about a 1M, but it's too early to tell the results. Obviously, Montana being so rural, only about 40% live in suburban/urban ares was always going to fair better than average.
I live in Iowa, where Governor Kim Reynolds is proving her unwavering support for Trump by reopening the state. I’m finding it increasingly difficult not to feel helpless and hopeless about the future when our so-called leaders not only show no interest in protecting the public, but in fact are actively encouraging the exact behavior health experts are cautioning against. Politicians, big business, protesters…it feels like we are fighting not just the disease, but the entire system around us at every level. What is the average person to do?
As a fellow Iowan, the only thing you can do is continue to model social distancing. Encourage your friends and family to wear masks and to avoid restaurants or other nonessential places.
And remember, most Americans are in favor of the restrictions. The minority are the ones calling for shutdowns to end and protesting. Unfortunately, media coverage of these events gives the illusion that the opinions of the minority are more widespread than they are. Have faith in your neighbors to do the right thing even if our illustrious leader continues to give poor advice.
Vote in your primaries and vote come November. The only way we can change things is to get rid of these idiots.
I don't really understand how reopening will magically solve economic issues. Does people who want reopening know that reopening isn't going to just magic away the fear that actually drive economy downward? Is running business targeting subset of people who doesn't care actually going to keep local businesses afloat?
What is he going to do if reopened businesses starts to permanently close because large enough portion of population would rather stay home?
@@KagerowRS Exactly. Oh and then your workers get sick. Hard to run a business with people getting sick.
We're AAAAAALL gonna diiiiiiiie... 😀🤪
I am a singaporean, and i admit, it is still a very high risk situation. There are clusters in worker dorms, and my father works in an area nearby, his company is still very cautious about opening up and management is too fearful to resume full operations, therefore, he only goes to work to attend essential business meetings. E.g twice a week if there are 2 meetings. The company is also running on a skeleton crew of workers from malaysia who have not gone back in over 3 months.
One key thing....Singapore hiring huge amount of those who lose jobs as part timers to be officers , walking round their own town areas, educating and telling people to wear mask and ensure social distancing.
Also, Singapore hiring many part timers to provide free advice to teach small business owners on how to sell their products online such as food etc..
I am currently in Singapore and we have the advantage of a small nation going for us. Bigger nations can emulate our success if they heavily compartmentalize their response spatially. In that way, the plight of bigger nations and corresponding scale difficulties is something I empathize with.
Singapore is a city which is quite densely packed. America has a variety of different environments including some major cities, many mid sized cities and towns and large rural areas too. america needs different strategies for each of these areas.
@@themanwiththeplan1401
And yet, are we really seeing a response for each? I don't think think so.
Is everybody in love with the idea of getting all of there personal information released if they have COVID?
It's funny, on there internet everyone gets mad when someone tries to doxx someone but apparently if you are the government some people think it's okay for the government to make the 'other' easily identifiable.
@woodchuck 00 Correction. Nobody other than healthcare workers and relevant government bodies get to know the identity of the Covid patient. The rest of us only knew the age, sex, nationality and whether he/she is a local or foreigner.
You guys planning on an update one year later? Perhaps a roundtable of countries that have emerged on the other side more or less intact and why?
4:25 Ok, yes..pooled testing is highly efficient and could help to increase effective test capacity while we build up actual test capacity. I personally have a rather severe knee-jerk reaction to it however after a false HIV positive from a pooled test done when I donated blood. Even once I was cleared by multiple negative tests over the course of the following year I couldn't get off the can not donate list, it's been over a decade now.
It's not a bad option, as long as the agencies actually keep up with the patients, do the follow up tests, and get people cleared. But consider me skeptical as to if they will bother.
Thanks again!
Oh good grief. The one about having all Americans download an app to their phone for contact tracing falls into one of the traps that annoys me so very much (and which you mentioned): the thinking that *everybody* has a smart phone. I assure you that everybody does not have a smart phone. A lot more people than tend to be thought of have only a standard cell phone, or no cell phone at all. Unless we're going to provide smart phones to those who don't have one, this isn't as helpful as it may seem.
The biggest problem with any of the recommendations is that our political leaders at the national, state, and local levels have for the most part demonstrated no political will to do what is proper and necessary, both to address the virus itself and to provide a safety net for the people of the country who are broadly experiencing personal financial crises as a result of the few strong actions being taken. Instead, what we have are:
1) the leaders of the two major political parties vying to see which can provide the largest amounts of money to their respective special interest large political donor groups;
2) the Trump administration worried solely about how the optics will affect his re-election chances, while also finding ways to reward corporations and individuals favored by Trump and members of his administration; and
3) friends, family, and political connections of all the political leaders involved trying to decide the best way to exploit the crisis for their own personal gain.
The re-opening that is beginning will leave the USA totally unprepared and incapable of handling the likely multiple rolling waves of re-infection.
I got into a relatively heated convo at work (we’re in healthcare), when one of our admin people said that, all things considered, fatalities weren’t that bad. I told them the only acceptable number was “as few as possible”. When I asked if they were willing to trade human lives for convenience, their reply was “we can’t live like this”. I just don’t think people understand the magnitude of what could happen. Step 1 is convincing everyone that the danger is real.
Well, when the official statistics show a fatality rate of 0.5% for the vast majority of the population, you're fighting an uphill battle.
We trade human lives for convenience all the time, as it's part of our globalized economy whereby we ship much of the dangerous low-skilled work to countries with little safety regulation and low wages.
Honestly, statistically and economically speaking, along with advice from a Ph.D student who has studied COVID-19 that I have personally spoken with, the best thing to do is pretty much nothing and let the virus take it's course. Lockdown areas of notably high risk (like nursing homes), but just let common sense prevail. If you're sick, whether it's a cold, or COVID-19, just stay home.
Dr. Carroll even stated that these lockdowns are costing trillions, and that may or may not be including the relief packages that go with the lockdowns.
gordon thomas if we had the “as few as possible” mentality for all aspects of life, our society would be paralyzed. Do you or someone you know drive? Congratulations, you’re increasing the risk of someone dying. Better stop doing that.
There are dangers to everything we do - and we need to determine what sort of danger and fatality rate is acceptable. Maybe 0.5% fatality rate is acceptable or maybe it’s not. I don’t know. But it’s ridiculous to pretend like we shouldn’t allow any risk at all.
Stuie Borenovich We do try to minimize risk in nearly every area of life. Consider automobiles: we force car manufacturers to include multiple safety features that they otherwise did not include, such as airbags and seat belts. We impose punishments on drivers who aren't licensed or insured, and we require them to buckle their belts and obey speed limits. Or you could consider the agricultural and food service industries for countless examples of risk minimization. Or consider civil engineering. Or medical practice and pharmaceutical production. The list is endless because human knowledge and power is growing, so we gain a great ability and more responsibility to maintain what we've built: civilization.
Are the people of South Korea and Singapore, Germany and Italy and Spain, Vietnam and China superhumans for accepting stay-at-home orders and broader testing and tracing programs? No. Are the people of those countries living lives that are substantially worse than ours? No. The short term effort required to save lives and stamp out the threat is not an impossible sacrifice. And most of us agree: every survey of Americans has shown that most of us either support the social distancing policies or think that the government isn't taking the issue seriously enough.
Most of us are stressed out, frustrated, tired or even a little bored, angry, maybe fearful or even despairing because of the pandemic and all of its consequences. People have postponed marriages and education. People have been fired and have lost their healthcare. People have been permanently injured or have died from the virus. And we can't even start mourning yet. We're fed up. But it's a minority of a minority of a minority that is foolish enough to think we can snap our fingers or click our heels and make this go away by pretending it's not happening.
Unfortunately, that minority who would obstruct distancing and testing are amplified by corporate media outlets desperate for a controversy to sell. And that minority ultimately serves the interests of the wealthiest Americans, who will conduct business from home without care for the poor and frail, the working class and disproportionately Black or Latino or Native American victims of the disease. If those in power in our country really wanted to test and trace and to keep people safe by paying them to stay home and canceling their personal or business rents, then that's what they would do. But they haven't, and they won't, because they don't. They think they can salvage their wealth and power by reopening and letting us die ("herd immunity", "the Swedish model", etc). It won't work, unemployment will pass 25% and we're going to be in a Depression for a decade regardless of what they do, but they will try and we will die. It's as American as apple pie.
I'm curious about the overall US strategy for fighting covid. Awhile back they were saying containment was impossible and the goal was to bend the curve. If herd immunity is the end goal wouldn't slowing the virus spread well below our hospital capacity be detrimental? Slowing the inevitable and impoverishing the poor who can't work remotely?
@@andyb2339 Given that the doctor even admits that the limited scope of infection due to the lockdown has caused poor levels of immunity to the virus, you are very much correct.
That's why the stimulus package was created. Not everyone can work during the lockdown, so the government is having to step in... because the government stepped in.
I’m interested is finding out the rate and magnitud of Covid-19 infection in specific communities, such as health practitioners or utility workers versus specific states.
Being Canadian it is interesting to see how these two countries are dealing with the pandemic. Especially when it comes to people listening to the government. Until last week when some regulations were lifted (we only had 27 total cases in my province all travel related) I hadn't spent time with anyone other than my immediate household and I didn't know anyone who had either. Whereas with my American friends I see them going to their families and friends places fairly regularly. Maybe this is due to our state of emergency and fines of 1000$ of breaking social distancing or is it due to an increased trust the government has our best interests at heart. I would love to hear any thoughts on this matter!
MrsFutureLaura Americans are stubbornly, ignorantly, selfish it’s really that simple. If any government entity even TRIES to stop you from doing what you want to do well whether that be with fines or prison...you get protests, fights, guns. It’s ridiculous and makes me ashamed to be an American.
I think the trust in government is the main factor, not necessarily the fine, here in the US. Trump is definitely not even close to the ideal person to run this whole country during the pandemic. In a way, it's been better state-by-state and I am blessed to live in California, but as much as we trust the state government, their supplies and funding come from the federal government, so the hiccup remains.
Canada bent over for the king, America fought the king for it's independence. That's the difference between the two countries. America then formulated it's constitution to promote a strong sense of liberty where the people have inalienable rights that government cannot trample on. Canada continued on another direction and was not as liberty minded as the US
I think trust is a huge factor in Americans response to safety measures. Also the inconsistent responses between the federal, state, and local governments is creating huge confusion and distrust. I live on a county line. Crossing the street one way there are a completely different set of rules then the other way. The federal government says something to contradicts both sets of rules. There's no consistency.
@@BeautifullyReckles That's really interesting, so there are different rules even within the state?
thank you
One possible option would be to test the waste water for traces of the virus. This would allow public health officials to target communities for more individual testing.
Yeah, I kept waiting for the waist monitoring to come up. It's a bit of a lagging indicator, but it can tell you where you need to go in with your more restrictive measures and where, within a few weeks, you'll need increased supplies. I don't see why it shouldn't be added to every plan.
I feel like any social tracking methods require immense citizen trust in the government, which we don't have in the us. Our country is literally built on our distrust of each other, in my general opinion. My democratic governor in the midwest doesn't do social tracking because of those very sincere conerns about what happens with that data.
Social tracking is just NWO and our civil liberties being mugged away from us.
Americans confuse paranoia with freedom.
Very much appreciate the information you provide, but could you PLEASE slow it down? Really, some of us don't have time or patience to keep going back to get it all. And some of us older people just can't hear/absorb that fast like young people who also talk fast. Thanks.
Greetings from singapore
Can you do an episode explaining Cuba’s healthcare system.
A bunch of people would all get mad when they learn the truth about the system. Like most things authoritarian communist dictatorship they put out propaganda to gain useful idiots, as defined by Lenin.
Would some cardio exercise during self-isolation help prepare the lungs and heart for a possible infection by covid?
It does not prevent infection, but there is a possibility that it may increase survival and recovery chances.
Combining testing samples dilutes the virus to the point that it will probably give a false negative, unless you know of some extremely sensitive test procedure that the rest of us haven't heard of. Or am I wrong?
They are reopening on Sunday, something tells me we aren't learning any lessons. The world clearly needs a break from travel, people and pollution at least one day in the week, if we can't do this on a Sunday, then we are going to find things go back to status quo pollution wise and find ourselves with a second resistance covid wave pretty soon.
I have an additional concern about an app that tracks how many people you're in contact with: I live alone and I've stayed completely isolated with the exception of grocery shopping trips, but I live in an apartment complex. To a location tracking app, I will appear to be in contact with several dozen people, some would be practically on top of me.
Is that a problem living in apartment? 80% of Singaporean are living in HDB flats which are public housing apartments.
Excellent point and if you are wondering 17 years earlier Singapore South Korea Hong Kong province of Ontario in Canada got hit hard by the first version of the virus Sars COV 1
As of 24 Nov 2020, Singapore have zero community case for a week. However, we have imported cases daily who are put on stay home notice on arrival so they cannot infect others if they have covid 19. Everyone wears a mask when they are out of their home.
Can you do a compare and contrast to the 2 basic competing theories on how to go forward? The "hide theory" that we avoid the virus until we have something that can prevent it it's infection versus the herd immunity theory which says let's all develop herd immunity and assume that once you have it it will be effective against future infections. I think people need to have an overarching understanding of the problem.
Not much link between late lockdowns and fewer excess deaths. Peru had a very strict lockdown but have very high excess deaths despite that. Closing borders like NZ and AUS seems to have a big impact
all citizens r very cohesive
I’m not optimistic that the American people can mobilize together. If my state (Iowa) is any barometer, we are all doomed.
Des Moines here. Today I stopped at a Casey’s to get gas. While filling my car I counted 11 other people at the pumps or going into the store. I was the only one wearing a mask. Back on the road, I saw packed outdoor seating at restaurants, parking lots were full, and groups of people NOT social distancing were evident everywhere. We simply don’t know if reopening the state at this stage is premature or not, but clearly a lot of folks don’t care.
👍👍
New Zealand was 24days new case free and still would be had the ppl in charge of strict quarantine at the border done their job. Hopefully those 2 cases are all. We were in lockdown for 4 weeks, similar to Singapore. We've looked to Singapore. But until these 2 cases, we were actually covid free for over a week. The border is the danger. Pretty much only citizens and residents allowed in. Some exemptions. But 2 weeks quarantine for anyone coming in. We're currently all open
Whoa. Not expecting my country to be a case study held against USA!
Actually... right now.. any country is better than the US...
I'm not american, but can I ask why it seems like the US citizens is having problems with the lockdown? I've been reading about rallies, burning of 5g towers, and the like. I would appreciate some clarification if anyone can give it. It's difficult to understand what's it like when I'm not familiar with the culture or environment, so any clarification is much welcome. Thanks.
Pseudoscience, self-help and "positive thinking", quack therapies and nihilistic conspiracies are really good for many sections of American business (at least in the short term, and in preserving the relative dominance of the rich and selfish). The extreme competition and culture of unhealthy individualism means there is great social anxiety and lack of trust. We're broken and lonely and stressed by a way of life that we're taught is our own choice, and only some of us know it. It's a sad place, but we have the wealthiest 10,000 people and the biggest military in the world and the best dollar stores.
@@Tempo_Topos So if I'm understanding you correctly, it is and has been an ongoing problem in he geopolitical climate and is closely related to the capitalistic nature of the american economy. And as you said, you have been raised to think that that way of life is what you want and is the right way to live. Damn, that's rough. Philippines isn't any better, but we also have our own set of problems which are common among 3rd world countries. Corruption (private and government sectors), nepotism, fanaticism, but I think the biggest problem is the lack of proper education and the innate unwillingness of the general public to accept evidence contradictory to their belief system.
@Tempo Topos, thanks very much for the clarification
@@rastadude " Corruption (private and government sectors), nepotism, fanaticism", same here in the USA.
It really looks like the government is not going to come help us. We each have to take care of ourselves. It's up to us individually to save this country and ourselves.
Problem is individuals can't do it alone. To control the virus takes a community response.
the US has volunteered to show the world what respone is in adequate i must say
"If Americans fail to comply..." to quote King Leonidas of Sparta, "If."
When.
BTW, I am getting commercials with these videos, so I’m hoping you’re getting $!
subtitles!!!
Clearly I've never been to Singapore
pay my bills ? where can I send my bills to be paid?
The app idea is incredibly troubling to me from a privacy perspective. I worry about the door that something like that would open, no matter how great the need it would be serving.
That doesn't matter in Singapore. They're a quasi authoritarian city state. Bigger countries can't do that
@Hannah Lee when fighting with unseen enemy, your life is more important than your privacy. We Singaporean do not mind the app as it enable fast contact tracing and isolation so that the rest of the community will not be infected. To us, the app actually protect yourself as well as protecting others.
@@belinda342 I understand that the expectations of privacy are very different in Singapore. I shudder to think of the ways that the US Government would continue to justify tracking locations of vulnerable people here for purposes of "national security" or "safety" long after the Covid-19 crisis once that kind of infrastructure was in place.
@Hannah Lee I think it boils down to 2 issues
Priorities and Value system - over here, we value our lives, our love ones and the rest of the Singaporean especially older folks and those with underlying health issues. Every lives are important and being able to get thru safely in the pandemic is utmost important to the Singapore government. So much so that even our 400,000 migrant workers which are our biggest challenge to date, the Singapore government have committed to take care of them. In US, I guess rights, freedom and privacy are your top priorities than your own life. That also explain why your country infected cases and death rates are the no. 1 in the world.
Trust and Confidence in the government - Singaporean have very high trust in the Government and we are confident that if we are united, we will beat the enemy. So when the government introduced 2 apps; TraceTogether and SafeEntry, we have no qualm about it. We strongly believe that it would help everyone in contact tracing and eventually flatten the curve. Having Trump as your leader, sad to say, I too do not have trust in his leadership.
You can have the best doctors in the world to advise you but it wouldn't mean anything with incompetent leadership who refuse to listen and instead do the opposite things to further his own personal agenda instead
Thoughts on dogs detecting covid?
Yup Asymptomatic dogs
Singaporean here... there’s something I don’t understand about the pandemic infections in USA, and the death rates. Is it true that that fatality is higher than recovery there? Maybe your side would like to understand how countries in Asia manage it?
3Blue1Brown did an amazing video on how we could conduct instantaneous contact tracing using apps while still keeping the data anonymized. The plan has rigorous details and citations and also lays out that we only need to get it in the hands of 60% of the population, and as such, Americans that don't have a smartphone could be excused.
It's a really fascinating video and may be the only feasible long term solution to the crisis
They pay people salary to be treated in hospitals.
Singapore did really well both before and after the sudden spike. A lot of its citizens gave flak to the government for not closing the economy earlier, but these people don't know that you can't just live in a lockdown for a full year while hiding and waiting for a vaccine. Singapore's government acknowledges that this will be a long term war, and they acknowledge this since JAN/FEB, something which most governments couldn't even muster.
With the outbreak in the foreign workers' dormitories, I found it very unlucky for both Singapore and these workers. Their accomodations cannot easily be changed, and dormitories are always shared/communal. It is also impossible to relocate 300,000 workers into isolation across the island. Yet somehow I hear Singaporeans complaining that the government is inept and useless. Like c'mon this is a pandemic-level virus, the government is only human, why don't they get it?
In any case, this small island nation is doing so well both on the healthcare front, and its economic response. Numbers don't tell the reality this time round.
+
Ok it seems unlikely we will (fully) comply [I have worked at social isolation because I don't want it to spread and still don't want it to spread] . So what is a likely out come. If we let it 'race' through America will it be much much worse than NYC? if it affects the elderly in extended care, which are 'invisible ' to the average person, will they just say, it was a bad flu? Or it was bad for others but I'm ok so big deal? Give us a picture.
We’re doomed. Americans are too entitled to make any of this work.
“What do you mean I have to wear a mask?! It’s my good given right to choose not to wear a mask!!!”
😷🤒
I just want to know that one day I'll be able to hug my friends again. Can anyone give me some reassurance (please don't be sassy I'm sad lol)
Even World War 2 eventually ended and people were able to get back to living their lives eventually, and I'm sure they felt like it would never end too! Hang in there!
Could be a year or two til we have a vaccine or everyone’s given up on avoiding the virus and we get to herd immunity by millions of people dying. Either way, I guess we’ll get there. 2-4 years, I’d guess.
OK I will.
Many of us were doing the right thing like masks,taking temp,distancing before we were even asked. It is helping some. Also, just because a city, county, state says it is lawful to open, many won't open except for curb service. Some of us demanded to be allowed TO wear masks at the essential services. That is going to help us all, including your friends and mine. It will be a while before we hug them,but when we do we are going to hug them, love them and squeeze them to pieces and it's gonna be good.
If more do what we are asked to do, we can help the ones that are under-informed to hug their buddies to. That's gonna be good for the world.
Love you
How and when can we know the cost/benefit of a lockdown during this pandemic? How can we use science to determine the impacts of a lockdown? We need to answer questions such as: are they necessary? should they be different? shorter? longer? periodic? only in cities?
Thanks for your hard work! It's always refreshing to watch you dig into the gray areas of epidemiology.
Science might be able to estimate impacts but it can't tell us what is necessary. Necessity isn't a fact about the world, it's a judgement call. And given the current lack of reliable science on this virus, even sciences estimates may not be all that good. I am not trying to knock science, I am strong supporter of science, but good science knows it's limits.
According to ourworldindata.org/coronavirus singapore currently has a higher infection rate than the US. Maybe the lockdown will prove less effective then we hope. I am all for it, social distancing, handwashing, not touching your face and staying home, but we really don't know what will happen next, best not to be too sure of ourselves.
What Singapore also has is a large number of dormitories where poorly paid immigrant guest workers live in close proximity. It's a recipe for rapid transmission. It's just a very good job that these tend to be young, or the death toll there would have been much higher.
poorly paid immigrant guest workers- that is always relative. who are you comparing to?
The covid-19 situation is Singapore has been nothing but a disaster caused by the mishandling from the government.
Prof Tan Meng Wah from the National University of Singapore had written a very insightful article on this.
facebook.com/mengwah.tan.984
facebook.com/mengwah.tan.984/posts/592593031606476
This is the article on how the Singapore government had mishandled the covid-19 situation from the beginning.
USA should learn from Taiwan. No lockdown at all but with only 450 cases of covid-19.
Trumpet want other countries to learn from them not learn from others. LOL
Paul Lee Can we trust their numbers? Taiwan has done only 3, 027 tests per million people. Basically, if you do few tests, you will find comfortingly few confirmed cases, but the virus could be spreading UNdetected in your country. Only time will tell. Too early for Taiwan to declare victory over the virus.
i mean each ideology has its flaws.
the west has freedom but too much freedom leads to these kinda stuff happening
but the east like asia has more control and order event though sometimes its stilfling it helps in situations like these.
no ideology is better but it depends on circumstance
I'm for more investment in healthcare, for testing and whatever. But the idea of a mandatory tracking system is the definition of Orwellian. Governments are made up of individuals, and should be trusted with the least possible power. That power has to include some things, but everyone's constant location is too much.
The tracking system in Australia doesn't include geolocation. It is run through Bluetooth. Every time you are in close contact with someone for 15 minutes or more the app does a "digital handshake" the information is kept in your phone for 21 days. If you are then tested positive to COVID-19, you are asked by the healthcare professional if you have the ap and are willing to share the information. A text is sent out to everyone that you came in close contact with telling them that they have come into contact with someone and instructing them on the next steps.
Oh and it's a voluntary download. So far about 45% have downloaded it so far. It's not perfect and traditional methods of contact tracking are still needed, but it's a start.
@@Babelfroggy Yeah alright. That sounds like a good halfway measure. Will I do get nervous about that sort of thing, in these time some sacrifices are necessary. I think I'd download that app.
@@davidwarren4213 I rationalized it with the fact that's e Google maps, face book, twitter, lol even pokemon go. They all provide tracking. ALL those apps track your position, as well as what you look at online, and what shops you physically enter and target marketing towards you, private company's that often sell your information or get hacked.
It's something I enter thought I would have to download. Strange times indeed.
It really can't just be casually brushed over that every contact tracing and surveillance program discussed here---ALL of them---are not just possibly illegal, but very very clearly illegal and unconstitutional. So, feel free to blame whatever leaders you want to blame for whatever you want to blame them for, but let's at least address the problem in real terms: These things literally cannot happen here without amending numerous laws as well as the U.S.Constitution. And nobody talks about that.
The Constitution isn't a suicide pact. If Bush and Obama bent the law the to surveil Americans and torture "enemy combatants", then Trump can bend it to save our grandparents and Americans with asthma, hypertension, diabetes, and doctors and nurses, etc. He won't do it, and the Democrats won't force or even demand him to. But if those in power wanted to pursue Singapore-style tracing or South Korean testing or Italian lockdowns or Chinese isolation, they could craft a decent legal justification.
All sounds good in a movie, but in our world, how long can that go on? That's insane. The more we suppress the rate of infection the longer this goes on without any guarantee of lesser mortality rate
But mah freedom! /s
So no late night booty calls
If we open, then we will never be able to close again. People will just not do it.
it is not a lockdown it is a circuit breaker.
So true but
Tramp is not interested. He just do not
listen. He claim he is a very smart genius but with a fork tongue
Pls can u talk about newzealand stat and how dey conquered d pandemic
This is why I'm shorting the market VERY aggressively.
Its a race of so many miles how ever fast you run it. The biology of the human race has no concern for the "ideas" of the human race. The race has developed to depend on the economy as much as food and water.
3Blue1Brown's Video on ANONYMOUS NON-intrusive NON-geotracking OPEN SOURCE contact tracing : ua-cam.com/video/D__UaR5MQao/v-deo.html
Feels very relevent.
1984 is here.
For reference, Singapore is now seeing 700-900 cases everyday for the past week
how about keeping a record of had it , immune , working , spending just like january.
less than age 40, volunteer to get it , get rid of it with treatment, then back to work and back to the bitchin' beach.
everything now is one group with out subdivisions. totally bass-ackwards.
Lol yall are screwed
The outbreak in Singapore is directly a result of poor living conditions, government oversight and discriminatory attitudes towards the migrant population in Singapore. The situation could have been avoided if the government included migrant populations in their "excellent" initial containment measures. Perhaps less praise of their response is in order. It is a warning for other countries not to overlook vulnerable and low income populations.
It's a travesty how migrant laborers are almost universally poorly treated. Economically marginal and politically useless human beings have no value to most powerful institutions and people, apparently. Vietnam and China and New Zealand provide some of the best examples of an admirable pandemic response, but they will not be discussed or considered by most serious people in America because that would be politically incorrect and at least a bit embarrassing. The Vietnamese are beating the USA again, go figure.
Have you been inside a Singapore dormitory before making your comment?
I have friends staying in foreign dormitories and video conversation with them regularly.
Foreign workers in dormitories during this ‘circuit breaker’ are being paid their salaries although they are not working.
Our Prime Minister was on TV last 2 month ago to assure parents of the foreign workers not to worry and that Singapore will take care of their sons if they are sick, free of charges.
How many countries head of state do that?
@@tanjames9849 This guy is on Auto-Complain mode.....it doesn't matter what the gov does, he will auto complain. He should go live overseas for a few years. Lets see what his attitude is then.
If one is a hardcore anti-govt and anti-PAP, anything and everything done screams wrong, wrong,wrong by default. Standard 101 opposition stance.
So you're getting paid off too huh?
food prices are inflating
the stimulus has blowback.
Why speak so fast and unclear? Speak slowly, clearly and confidently.
USA leader show the world how they do with this virus for not wearing mask in usa 100 000 deaths 🤣🤣
Plz don’t follow Singapore. Follow other SEA countries instead. We are not that good. We screwed up. But we will bounce back. Take care and stay safe
ahgonghippo Follow other SEA countries like who? Vietnam, Thailand, Malaysia, Indonesia, Philippines etc? All countries with low numbers of confirmed cases plus LOW LEVEL OF TESTING. Basically, if you test little, you will find few cases. Too early to say they have succeeded in containing the COVID19 virus because low testing levels means the virus could well be spreading UNdetected in their country. I would rather test more, like Singapore, even if it means finding more cases, than test little and pat myself on the back for comfortingly few cases and stick my head in the sand like an ostrich. FYI Singapore has done 57,250 tests per million people. Here are the corresponding numbers for the following countries: Thailand, 5,380; Indonesia, 1,061; Malaysia, 16,084; Philippines, 2,959; Vietnam, 2,828. I feel safer in Singapore than anywhere else, and it will be a long time before I travel to any place with low numbers of confirmed cases because of low levels of testing. We may not have gotten everything right/perfect, but we have still done better than most.
Shithole country
you cant compare a country with 6million people with a 300million people.
This. Might be a better comparison to NYC itself, but that’s about it.
Actually you can, depends on what you are comparing it for, every country has advantages and disadvantages, due to geography, density, system etc. Singapore is tiny but that also made it the 3rd most densely populated nation in the world. Metaphorically, it is hard to swing a dead cat without hitting someone. So social distancing is a challenge. We however have the advantage of being sealocked so it gives us a window of opportunity control the entry of the virus. While you may think the US is large but that is an advantage because you are sparsely populated in a lot of areas, it's slows the rate the virus can spread, gives you more time. The problems is even if given time, you seem to neither have the healthcare system, coordination... or just the inclination to combat this crisis. You can always compare if you know what you are looking for.