Jim Cornette Looks At January 1988
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- Опубліковано 3 січ 2018
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That Jim Crockett logo is genius level stuff
I was thinking this a week ago. A really great piece of design.
My God does this guy know the sport of professional wrestling.
I'd love if he had a separate show talking about the history of pro wrestling.
Bottom line, the old model of fractured regional promotions that relied on big names to juice ticket sales for special events was going to die because of TV and PPV. In 1988, Mania SummerSlam and survivor series had over 1,000,000 buys combined. It takes a lot of shows with $50,000 gates to match that. WWF capitalized on a changing media landscape to scale their product in a way no touring schedule could ever hope to achieve.
Summerslam wasn't until 1988.
There was no Summerslam in 87
Also, this was a Million Dollars in 1980's Money. This is why if one went to a WWE Live Show in Spokane, Washington the guys hardly did anything compared to a show at The Boston Garden because one couldn't go Full Tilt every night on that crazy road schedule, unless one was doing a TV Taping and even then one might not see a Competitive Match.
@@KHayes666 Just curious, I get why yothisistonyyovillain pointed out the typo. But what did you think your comment added? Does it have to come from you or something?
@@gogotonyyo Wow, thanks for making my point even stronger, thanks!
I would love to have seen the midnight express vs Sting and Ron Simmons in 1988.
I remember seeing an awesome, awesome, AWESOME match between Nikita Koloff and Robert Gibson back then. summer 86 IIRC. used to be here on YT.
I could listen to this all day.
The stories that Cornette has talked about are great. Doesn't get old.
A great listen as always.
People who say Dusty Rhodes booking is the reason that Jim Crockett Promotions is no more, one needs to get their head out of your ass, if they think that. I don't care how awful or fantastic the booking is, the Original ECW is a good example of this Paul E's booking was terrible, but they were still selling out their shows. If one doesn't know how to manage their money, you are going to go out of business.
The biggest difference between WWE and Crockett NWA was, the McMahons had the resources and his front office was not far from New York City and he had a Broadcast Network deal with NBC that brought him all this media coverage and later endorsement deals and I am sorry in the 1980's and somewhat in the 21st. Century Atlanta, GA is not the same as New York City, New York. Plus, Crockett didn't have the resources to expand and didn't how to manage his money in the right places, Vince McMahon did and he didn't know how to promote Pro Wrestling, but he sure as hell knew how to promote Sports Entertainment,
Watts would not have competed with Vince any longer than Crockett did... The business changed... Cornette can never understand that
It's BALTIMORE, Jim. It would take a freakin Hurricane AND a Blizzard to keep us home for a wrestling card of any significant quality!
I'm not old enough to remember the territory days, but I know that pro wrestling hasn't been very interesting since the WCW vs WWE days in the 1990s, so I'm inclined to agree with Jim that the loss of territories is a death blow to pro wrestling everywhere. Competition is good for business.
The Dude
Competition is part of the reason some of the territories went out of business.
The Territories were going to die at some point probably by the internet age, you couldn't run the same cards with the same finishes at multiple venues in a region with out people starting to post and talk about the results and realizing that it was worked which would had been a serious wound for them. No what killed the business was nationwide hotshotting by WCW and WWF/WWE in the Monday night wars and of course the horrible booking and angles just dumb shit like Mark Henry getting a what 70-80 year old May young pregnant and her giving birth to a hand? The finger poke of doom, just about every thing Russo booked, etc. It just screamed hey we're not something you take seriously, we're like a circus with grappling. Now I agree competition is also what is hurting things as you only have one big place to see wrestling and it's run by a out of touch 70+ year old coked up, roid freak who barely sleeps and changes his mind more in a couple hours than a baby gets it's diaper changed in a month. Sadly no one right now is in a position to be competition. TNA was the closest by simple fact that it had a sweet TV deal on a big network Spike, now Paramount TV and a roster of amazing talent that could of help get TNA up there had they not tried to be WWE lite but Dixie was full of herself and a dumb shit to boot and got worked by Russo and then Bischoff and Hogan and then Russo again. What's is even sadder is look how much better and over TNA guys are after they left. So much wasted potential. Now TNA/Impact is such a tainted brand, I doubt that despite all the effort Anthem is putting in and so far trying to do it right finally, is not going to make a difference.
@@The_Real_DCT True technology would of killed one aspect of it, wrestling would of needed to change but I agree with Jim its changed to something thats not engaging on any level..
In the 80’s the WWF COULD NOT keep my attention like the NWA. I could careless about Hulkamania running, walking or crawling, it sucked all the same.
I grew up in Spartanburg, SC. I remember the bad weather
Boiling Springs here!
Ever since they built the lakes the entire Upstate just had bad weather. Sucks for me cause I live so close.
Dusty Rhodes killed off a lot of JCP business by running too many Bunkhouse Stampedes, too many scaffold matches and too many Wargames. Those matches were special, but became less special by being overbooked. Also, constantly taping the old World Championship Wrestling show every week in Atlanta was an added expense JCP didn't need. That's why Vince McMahon stopped running Monday Night Raw every week in the Manhattan Center in the early 90's. It was too expensive.
@Uncle Osiris It was less expensive to broadcast Raw on the road versus flying the whole crew in to NYC from wherever they were on the road, according to Bruce Prichard and a few others within the company.
Dusty got burnt out in from mid 87 to late 88 when he lost his booking gig
Let's be real by 87 JCP was on a slide and it wasn't Dustys fault. The problem is that the roster needed a shake up and didn't get one. The Midnight Express was stale, Rock n Roll too, Dusty, Ric and etc all had been there. You can't have the same people on top for more than 2 years and expect to continuously draw in the same exact places.
@@smarkslowplay3512 he didn't get burnt out. His talent got played out...
@@fatalsniper3413 I'm with ya but not on your assessment of the Midnite Express. They were at their freshest around this time with the newly acquired Stan Lane. They got stale with Condrey.
What hurts the business more now isn't the "Big Two" but the end of territories. Crockett was just as complicit in the ruinination of the business. Crockett jobbing out Florida, UWF, Central States did them no favors after 1987.
Instead of absorbing them up should have built those regions
Thank you.
Once cable came in, things were probably destined to consolidate on a national basis, it was just a matter of who was going to run things.
@@timf7413 Sadly yes and nobody has figured out how to create the type of talent that made wrestling hot in the 80's and mid to late 90's without the territories. The wrestling business is on fumes now, and sure there is some pretty good talent out there, but little to no STARS like we used to have.
Territories couldn't survive in the satellite/cable tv era
@@AnArchyRulzz Shit wrestling itself can't survive the internet era
I give Corny credit for being smart with his money. He drove a $17k car while the rest of the boys drove luxury. I can't imagine he splurged on recreational goods or women 😂😂😂.
His stories are pretty epic. He should literally do his own encyclopedia of Jim Crockett Promotions if he hasn't already.
he has been promising a smoky mountain wrestling video for about 5 years and it still hasn't materialized, if he decided to do that book it will take him 50 years lol. He is always too busy XD.
He still has his first quarter stuck in the back of his head, he dropped it and it hit him on the way down.
Well he wasnt alone he was the rare side there were a lot of tight modern wrestlers owen hart for example was famously tight
I'll never forget the Blizzard of 88 school was out for 3 weeks.
yes!
Yep, I was 8n 3rd grade. Good times
I remember, shut Ga down for sure. I was in 9th grade.
Miss the JCP days and wcw even thought there was terrible booking and mgmt then those times for the business of wrestling was amazing the stars were so different than today the midnights horsemen etc were true giants loved it always will thanks Jim Bobby Dennis Stan you guys were and will always be the greats!
35:21. Wow sounds like WWE/Vince book today.
Hahahahaa...The Mighty Wilbur! Dusty looking for his version of Hillbilly Jim.
Vince sabotaged a terrible business man. Crockett was the guy in debt for overspending. So Crockett screwed Crockett. Not Vince
The Koloff vs Murdoch match is on UA-cam. Not great quality, but, it's not even 15 minutes long & ended up Cornette & the Express beating down Dusty with Windham making the save with the tennis racket as Murdoch was about to dive onto the right arm of Rhodes on a chair. Great match too.
Losing the rock and roll express really hurt Crockett
I think what really hurt Crockett was getting sabotaged on PPV.
Miss the old days
sounds like january went from a mudhole to a landslide.
JC has forgotten more about wrestling than most will ever know.
I was at the forum it was either Jan '87 or '88 for my birthday when it was Flair vs. Hayes for the heavyweight belt
I was a hardcore NWA fan from the Crockett days, loved War Games, attended several Great American Bashes, and I'll be the first to say that the entire concept of the Bunkhouse Stampede absolutely sucked. I was never even tempted to spend money on a PPV or traveling to a show that had a Stampede as the main event.
The Stampede worked better as a regular battle royal with more participants. Having it inside a cage completely defeats the purpose of a cage. The cage is supposed to keep the action inside. Throwing the guy out the door is one thing but over the top of the cage is just implausible.
1988 Newton North Carolina armory on highway 321
Murdoch a Klansman, Good Ol Boy
Better than any racist Black Lies Matter pos
I loved Dusty!
Me too
Regarding Nikita going 20 minutes with Murdoch, if I recall, I think Nikita even had a decent match with Lex Luger (amazingly) during the 1987 Bash tour in Greensboro that went close to 30 minutes.
Corny makes everything personal, so he didn't like Nikita (or Nash, HHH, etc) which means Nikita sucked...bullshit. Nikita was Goldberg with talent, Flair, Magnum, Tully, Taylor, he had great matches with all.
had some great matches going for ric falirs nwa title
Crusader7077 Waking up glued to a wall would be last shocking than that comment. Two terrible workers.
That 87 Bash match was a bit of a chinlock-fest tbh.
And hey what is 20mins Broadway? I might use that...
sinicalypse Broadway basically means a time limit draw
Some of their draws were all time great matches
At the start of this clip Corny said it was the largest crowd for a Pittsburgh indoor wrestling show with 16k fans.... Are you telling me WWE has never had a bigger house running PPVs in Pittsburgh?
Foley vs Taker Hell in a Cell was in Pittsburgh are you telling me they didn't see out that arena?
So when did the syndication money show up?
I honestly don't think Mid South's fortunes would have changed. TBS wasn't paying for the time until a decade later, so you would have to cross your fingers and hope Bill could get more advertising than Jim because the markets still were going to crash in 86 and lose people lots of money whether or not Bill was on TBS.
Love Corny but sheesh did he have TDS bad. Wonder what he thinks of Brandon?
decent house money back then but not great
This may not be the Consensus or Norm, but I was born in '79.....And I watched NWA as much as I could.....Did I like WWF? Yes, but the difference was that I watched the WWF in the same spirit that I watched SATURDAY Morning Cartoons......I had a COMPLETELY different perception and got a different feeling from the NWA.
WWF was more like kid entertainment.....I actually got pissed when Dusty got jumped, or when The midnight double teamed some baby Face.
Long Island Sounds about right
This is right around the time I became a huge fan. I was 14.
I wish the ppv companies should have called McMahons bluff. "Sure, we don't get the Mania money. But then again YOU don't get as much as you could" Less people able to get Mania means less money for Vince able to get.
Just two or three inches of snow in Charlotte, everything is closed
I grew up in the northeast so wrestling exposure for me was 99% the WWF product in the late-80s and early-90s and I felt it couldn't be topped because that's the kind of stance you take on when you're a kid and haven't seen many other styles of wrestling. Well, child me was a fucking moron. Spending a few years listening to Jim romanticize the territory days and being able to watch the corresponding shows easily in the WWE Network, I now agree when he says that the NWA in-ring product was superior the WWF. Watched Starrcade '83, absolutely loved it. Watched WrestleMania 1 for the first time since I was a kid, thought it was the drizzling shits.
I can identify with that. I also lived in an area where we just had WWF. It was actually WWWF when I started watching it and it was pretty good. I went to a few shows including Andre vs. Hogan where Hogan ran away after maybe 8 minutes because he was afraid. Around 1983 or whoever "Hulkamania" started, it became very different. It was a very juvenile product deliberately made to appeal to children. I stopped watching wrestling. But when we finally got JCP wrestling, I tried that and I loved it. It was gritty. It wasn't this slick, Hollywood type product. It was the mud, the blood, and the beer. Ric Flair as their champion was so much better than Hogan as WWF's champion was so much better it's incredible. Also starched '83 had the dog collar match between Piper an Valentine. That was a brutal, bloody match and the kind of thing you just didn't see in WWF.
Hello from the Northeast, sir! I grew up on WWF television from 1991 to about 2002ish. I agree completely about your new perspective on NWA programming as an adult.
This is 1987-88 deep dive omnibus part 2
Dive deeper you can see Jim's 3rd eye
wasn't the omni a shitty building? Yeah it had Dominique and all but still you know technically speaking...
I'm confused about how they got paid. Cornette mentions $300,000 contracts when in Crockett, but implies they got paid based on house results. Was it both?
Definitely both
the $300,000 where what they where exspectet to make with the houses over the year and if they where under this summ by the end of the contract year they get the differenz as a so called ballon paymant
I was born in January 1988, baby. 31 next week.
Dusty Rhodes and his ego was out of control at this point. He should have just booked and been a part timer.
It was Tully Blanchard who said around this time, "Dusty should book himself against Dusty".
The Bunkhouse Stampede failed because dusty booked himself to be the winner every year and the audience just stopped caring.
Not only that, they fucked up by holding the ppv in New York. Going into Vince's backyard with a confusing backwards battle royal screams "southern wrasslin". Dusty could have booked Bubba to win but it wouldnt have mattered because the Long Island crowd wasnt into it
@@KHayes666 The true "backwards battle royal" wouldn't come until TNA. The Bunkhouse Stampede was just a Battle Royal in a cage. Having to toss the guy over the top of the cage is ridiculous. I think you could also go out through the door, but yeah it's lame. And it came down to Barbarian vs. Dusty. Just saying though, it wasn't a reverse battle royal. It wasn't confusing, just weak
Not alot of Cowboy Bunkhouse Stampede type talk anywhere in NY and Dusty wasnt really over there ,nor was Flair at the time at all barely known unless you where a real fan
@@DonSmith2323yea I’m grew up 15-20min from Nassau coliseum and went there multiple times a year for wrestling, had a ton of WWF toys, huge wrestling fan but growing up in the 80s I didn’t have cable and had no idea who Dusty Rhodes was until the polka dots, none of my friends or classmates knew of him either
@@KHLB516 i grew up in Niagara Falls Ontario and i only knew of Dusty and Flair because of wrestling magazines my pops would buy for me from the old school smoke shops that sold cigars and magazines and cool stuff especially when your lil kid they've all but vanished here now...but 100% WWF country i used to go to Niagara Falls convention centre on USA side near Buffalo to watch WWF it was and is WWE country til this day....Did you ever go to ECW ??and what did you think of it...i just watched the full history of ECW documentary was pretty awesome to go back i also enjoy Smokey Mountain which is also on YT is a great watch for old school wrestling
43:05 Donald Trump > Jim Cornette
Donald WHO?
Vince McMahon ruined wrasslin
How? He paid guys more in a week than they made in a month.Yeah many went from mid to upper card in the territories & indies to jobbers in the WWF.Wrestling is predetermined anyway so then it’s all about pride.
I was born in January of 1988
I was born in March 2001
geek hour i porking your bride in 88 of jan, and feb thru dec
It always makes me laugh to myself slightly when Jim talks about "Snow Days" when he usually says it's like 4-6 inches and they get the day off. Lol. I remember when he told a story about being sick and getting up in Dallas and there was like 4 inches of snow (I believe that was it. Might have been more) and the whole town was at a standstill. Hahaha. I lived in the Rocky Mountains of Colorado all my life ( by the way F$&@ Vince Russo. We don't want him here in Colorado just for the record) and 4-6 inches of snow is considered absolutely nothing here. That's just a normal winter day here. Lol just par for the course if you will. That amount of snow doesn't even close schools on those days. If we did close every time we had 6 inches of snow, then our cities would be shut down all winter. Jesus. It take at least a foot or more of snow for us to even think about closing anything. Lol. That's always been a Colorado Rib we say up here " 2 inches of snow and we can't make it to work, but 12 inches of snow and we can make it to McDonalds and the newest movie that just came out" or something to that effect. I would say 80% of the people that live here have a 4x4 like a Subaru or a Jeep or a big truck. That's all you need lol. The other 20% are out of state dumba$$es.
And he had to live off Goddamn 7-11 chicken nuggets for a day and a half. You know the fuckin' machines they used to have where they dropped the nuggets in the oil and fried them? Didn't even have any goddamn honey mustard.
It is always funny to hear Cornette try to not bury people that he feels are (and often are) legends. He hums and haws and makes excuses. Did the same thing with Moolah as I remember. That one is pretty pathetic though.
WWF was way more entertaining tho. Wrestling was 10x better no doubt, but as a kid (as I was) hard to get excited for the Generic dudes with regular names over the pumped up super heros of WWF. It was always going to end the way it did. Your cell phone is way more exciting than even the best Palm Pilot. Vinny took it somewhere it had never been and it consumed the old. TS for NWA
Crockett and Vince attracted different crowds. Vince was drawing kids who liked the clownish gimmicks. Crockett drew adults who wanted to see physical matches that felt real.
I was at that show in Lakeland.never was i more letdown then with the main event.it may've lasted 10 minutes no blood and had a dull simple finish.
Magnum.T.A had the best matches with Nikita though Dick may had done the same.
I grew up in WWWF territory, and favored the NWA product that I saw on WTBS, and on syndication .
I watched this BUNKHOUSE STAMPEDE today on the WWE Network and I have to disagree about what Jim said about the crowd ... They sounded pretty lively to me... I can tell if they add crowd noise and I didn't hear it on that video
he probably was comparing it to the crowds of back in the day and you were comparing it to today's crowd. big difference.
Corny makes everything personal. If he liked Nikita, then he'd acknowledge that Nikita had great matches with Flair, Magnum, Tully, Terry Taylor...so pretending in Jan 88, he needed an old Dick Murdoch to carry him is plain absurd
Start all of these videos at 10 seconds in and you will enjoy them much more, sans the stupid and annoying clean tone riff at the beginning.
Wilson Jimenez that’s what I do.
I'm southern I'm 38 and I always enjoyed both wwf and wcw and nwa but I enjoyed wwf more
I'm midwestern, 35. But JCP/NWA/WCW was better.
Virginia born, Tennessee raised here. And i loved the old JCP/NWA years in the 80's and later WCW and WWF in the late 90's.
I'm from Norfolk Virginia and it was NWA or nothing I didn't even know WWF existed until 89
And on Jim's assessement of the financial scale of the business, his focus on ticket sales is short sighted. He points to four cities that generated gross ticket sales of one million dollars each, which is impressive. Adjusted for inflation, that's about 2.5 million per year. The WWE currently has 2.1 million subscribers to the WWE Network who each pay $10 a month. That's over $20 million a MONTH going to WWE before they sell a single ticket.
RE: Corny thinks JCP should have just kept doing 1986 in 1987 while WWE keeps growing. So they stay in their lane and top guys get, lets say $200k year. Meanwhile WWE keeps growing, syndication, toys, big arenas, and they can say to JCP talent "Well if you're a top guy here, you'll double your money". Who isn't leaving? Why does Corny think they got that big guarantee with JCP? If they don't grow they can't compete and become a feeder system.
True, but you know how Vince feels about talent he didn't establish.
Well at this point all the WWF talent was established somewhere else, Vince would just give them a gimmick. WWF already had been raiding top talent and with in the year would have Rhodes, and 3 of the 4 Horsemen. All the territories were dying and it was just a matter of time for JCP. Once Turner bought it their only hope would of been what Bischoff did a decade later, spend money and get top stars.
No, he thinks they should have continued to do what they did best, and not try to compete with Vince at the shit that he did best.
They could say anything, the truth is that most of the talent wasn't making shit. Just like today. Same old scam. Promise the stars, and all most people get is the moon. (think about it moron).
Vince had Hogan and Savage while Crockett had an overweight Dusty with his lisp and belly blotch. Nuff said.
and Ric Flair...
Kidding yourself about having a feud with Trump....it takes two to have a feud.
The efficacious sunday primarily refuse because operation pharmacodynamically stroke throughout a second estimate. bright, white step-aunt
Can someone tell Jim that “drismal” is not a word?
never noticed the 666 in JCP design
But those aren't 6's.... Just because something looks like a backwards 6 doesn't make it one. And either way, who cares, those are all just fairy tales anyway.
No those are 6's but it's just hidden. I don't believe that everything is a conspiracy but million and billionaire corps use symbology like this all the time. I just never noticed it in JCP's little design. It could be a coincidence on their part but I doubt it. If someone doesn't see hidden symbolism in hollywood, products or elsewhere I don't know what to tell you. Not sure what fairy tells have to do with any of this. Non-religious people do it all the time. Jews who are atheists do it more than anyone.
Black Sabbath But they aren't 6's. Unless you live in a mirror world, they just aren't. And I think you're looking into it way too hard. What would they get out of hiding some sixes somewhere in their logo? Especially when they don't even make them sixes.
Face palm
\m/ Secret Devil Sign - static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/CornetteFace_4208.jpg
great as usual until they brought in their TDS
LOL out loud. Trump means it. He's not Obama, drawing lines in the sand that people instantly cross.
Trump means it by standing up for Putin?
It was Obama, not Trump, who was President when the Russians interfered in the 2016 election. Obama told his intelligence people to "stand down" from investigating.
Trump blew one of Putin's airstrips to kingdom come.
It was Congress, under Obama, who acknowledged Russia's control of Crimea. Trump is the one pushing to reverse that, to not recognize Russia's control of Crimea.
Incorrect. It was Mitch "The Snapping Turtle" McConnell that wouldn't allow obama to act. Everything trump does, every day, screams his guilt of what he's being accused of. Especially his "performance" at Helsinki.
Obama, through Susan Rice, ordered people to stand down from investigating Russian interference. According to Susan Rice, the order came from Obama.
What a hipster. "It was better back then" even though there's gonna be 80 indie shows in New York this wrestlemania weekend.