Blizzard's Paywall Has Backfired
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- Опубліковано 23 бер 2024
- In which I talk about the fumbling of a bag, how developers are clearly cooking pretty damn hard, and a degree of hope for the future of World of Warcraft.
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A couple of things I think you need to consider:
1. For every player that hates PvP (almost always due to the toxic behaviour of PvPers) and objects to being forced into it during an event, there's a PvPer that hates all the other events throughout the year that force them to do stupid PvE stuff so they can look cool while ganking noobs.
There's a large section of the ESO playerbase, for example, that only ever enters the PvP areas when they're forced to during events. This is despite the fact that PvP has unique sets and items that can only be acquired with PvP currency. They want the shiny gear that's available all year but they do not enjoy the experience of acquiring it to the point that they will put it off until the annual event when they're forced to do the thing they don't like to do in order to get time-limited rewards. Hell, even PvPers themselves are divided between those who enjoy the open-world PvP of Cyrodiil and those that prefer the more controlled chaos of Battlegrounds.
You can't please everybody. PvP events are the most divisively visible BUT you can say more or less the same things about most other events.
Only a no-life moron would go fishing in a MMORPG, so why is there an entire event dedicated to the most boring activity in any game ever? Harvesting and crafting? That's for losers that can't solo dungeons. Puzzles and mazes? Me no red gud no lyk hard ting me like boom-boom (alternatively, I can't finish your puzzle because your servers suck). OMG THEY'RE FORCING US TO DO PUBLIC DUNGEONS. Why can't we just have this Festival all year long? I only play the game to raid with my friends, where's my raiding event? Why isn't there an event where my favourite class or playstyle can shine? Why don't the dev's cater the game specifically to me????
It's still all too common in MMOs for there to be entire zones with almost no players in them because the only reason to ever go there is to farm wolves so you can reach level 10 and move on to the next area you'll never return to. Events are the perfect solution to this... which makes it doubly shameful that so many MMOs still have areas the dev's put their time and effort into being devoid of players.
The entire point of events is to prevent the day-to-day experience from going stale by encouraging players to go to places and engage in activities they don't normally engage in and may not even know about. Which brings me to...
2) I see where you're coming from but I don't think you've fully thought the stuff about a Free Trial through.
The last time I checked, WoW was still a tab-target game and, as you noted, GW2-style action systems are far more common now.
Forget for a moment that you've been playing WoW for years, and think about a new player that has only ever heard about the game before. Imagine that you're 13 and you see this free trial and decide to see what all the fuss is about. You have a bit of fun in this action mode that's similar to other games you play, so decide to play the proper game... and discover it's nothing like the 'demo'. It's icky old tab-target stuff your parents played. IT'S THE SAME GAME YOUR PARENTS PLAYED. This is the same kind of bait-and-switch that so many mobile games are notorious for but that's not the point I'm going to make.
Is it remotely possible that this mode is an experiment to gauge the response of existing players to a combat overhaul intended to modernise WoW for a new generation of customers (potentially conceived while playing WoW)? I don't think a WoW2 could ever be practical but I do think a radical overhaul that could effectively mean the same thing is an eventual inevitability.
Doesn’t seem like anyone listens to new players and the reasons why they don’t like playing wow. It’s mostly just people that played the entire time or someone that quit back in legion and they are trying it out again.
This event wouldn’t attract new players anyway even if it was free to play. As soon as they jump from blunder to retail they will be confused from the menus not explained. The butchered story and the switch from action combat to tab targeting will push them away.
plunderstorm looks stupid and I refuse to have anything to do with it. also PVP sucks...lol
Blizzard moves with the agility of a glacier. I can't wait to see the WoW Among Us mode in 2028
Then a search gather mode like lethal company
But I also wouldn’t mind to be honest… I like the risks and yeah they will not be for everyone but I think the stuff that does work they can take bits of it and put it into wow or just tidy up the new game modes they come up with.
That's fast in terms of a geological scale when compared to a human lifespan. But well we all know what that actually means lol.
oh just wait till they hear about BG3
they will make TurnBased RPG in reforged mod
all you will need is sub for wow and owning Reforged
Then in 8 years they will make a survival game. Oh wait they canceled that
I’ve finally accepted that blizzard isn’t making games for me anymore
Welcome to how starcraft/ warcraft (actual warcraft, not WoW) players have felt for years.
Blizzard never made games for me. They destroyed all the games I liked and ruined enough of their own to cement my opinion of them. Metal Arms, StarCraft:Ghost, Diablo post-2, Warcraft itself, and the innumerable other projects in and out of their studios that were destroyed by WoW.
@@MorfsPrower You weirdos need to touch some grass. Why are you hate watching something you don't like?
Took you long enough
Everything after warcraft 3 was not made for me either... WoW was the downfall of the Blizzard quality we came to expect at the time.
If I had a nickel for every time Blizzard fumbled a reveal by hyping up the wrong people with anticipation and then massively letting them down when they realise the revealed thing is totally not what they wanted, well I'd have at least 3 nickles.... 😅
Which is not a lot, but weird that it happened thrice.
Is that what you imply?)
@@DimkaTsv Perry the implication?!
Overwatch 2, Diablo Immortal, Diablo 4, Hearthstone Mercenary mode, Hero’s of the Storm, WoW Battle Royale you got more nickels than you thought! Your rich!
Trade those nickels for 500 wow crystals. Buy some gear.
This not being available on a trial account is just the sort of completely unnecessary mistake Blizzard has made a cornerstone of their business plan for the last ~5 years.
No
Why make a free limited time game mode for free trial to people who most likely aren't going to even pay a sub fee? Guess what and why.
Bots.
Bots will go making trial accounts to flood the damn thing.
@@flashrogue4376 Yes
@pollenus5796
Let's be honest. If this limited event mode was open for free trial, what would ya think it'd go? Smooth?
No. Bots would flood it entirely. Farm it and ruin the event.
Blizzard already deals with bots farming mats and in BGs, you think be wise to let free trial accounts play a mode that the rewards be completely useless for them when they have zero intention subbing to WoW?
I understand that it's kinda bad when the players want the rewards from something that they don't want to do, but the way you obtain these rewards is through a mode that fundamentally isn't really World of Warcraft anymore. If they made a new version of Freehold with a ton of gimmicks, but made it still feel like WoW and play as a PVE mode, and made running this new Freehold give all these rewards, would people have complained nearly as much? Someone will always complain, that's the nature of the beast, but still. I want these cool rewards, all this transmog and these mounts, but I don't play Battle Royales. Even WoW PVP still FEELS and plays like WoW. This doesn't.
Imagine playing a shooter, but to get some of the skins, you had to play a built-in half-baked RTS. That's what this feels like. Who is this for?
You originally put "were were" in the title. We all saw it, and we will never forget you did that.
The internet *never forgets*
A werewere? Just a normal, unassuming person. But as soon as the light from the full moon touches them, they're instantly transformed into a terrifying human/human hybrid! It can only be stopped by a silver redundancy.
Edited for accuracy
Wouldn't a werewere be a man that turns into a man during the full moon?
@@sosukelele Huh, I think you're actually right.
the "were" in "werewolf" literally just means human from an old proto-indo-european root
@@sosukelele Would he turn into a different man or just himself again, though? If a werewere turns into himself, would anyone notice? >.>
@@MisterNightfish Like a Dr Jekyl and Mr Hyde situation
I don't get why battle royale is so compelling to people. Life already is a battle royale and it's exhausting
Life doesn't have to be. The real world is a better place than the fantasy they push
Maybe that's why battle royale is appealing, it tickles the human instict to fight for survival. Come to think of it, most games have this feel, but in battle royale, the key here is that you're competing against a multitude of players. Another aspect of battle royale is it's "dynamic puzzle" aspect, such that you have think of ways to survive in ever changing parameters. Unlike in standard FPS games like Counter Strike where situations are often repeated, in battle royale, situations are often varied and this forces or entices the player to think how they will solve this "puzzle".
the bag has been fondled
Uhhh...uhhhh...hmm that's a diff thing xD
🤨🤨🤨
ayo? 🤨
dont fondle the bag
Well that'll cost you some 💰...
I dont like plunderstorm just because I dont like battle royales, so im not doing it.
What really confuses me is why is this a limited time event?, I mean the tech is there, the assets is there, everything is there, so why not just leave it as something "evergreen" that anyone can do in their own time eventually, maybe thats the plan, and after the 6 weeks, it will come back one for one weekend every month. idk. Anyways my point is that this could have been the start of some "casual" content that its always present, and everyone can eventually get the rewards without fomo, and who knows, maybe down the line they add more wacky game modes, and even more rewards, in a rotation, and players just do them whenever... you know, like a certain saucer in some other game. Rumbling off.
Because nobody wants to do it. (here, 'nobody' is defined as 95% of subscribers) And the only way they are able to shove people into it to serve as prey for the sociopaths is to make it limited time and pretend that it belongs on the PvE roadmap for wow.
Because the current corpos need the subscriber bump *NOW* for their bonuses, someone deciding to try this in a month or two doesn't help their bottom line right now.If they introduce FOMO and make it limited, it forces more short term resubs.
This way, if it fails they can let is fade away.
Had they announced it was permanent, they would have announce that it failed to live up to expectations and sunset it.
this will 100% turn into an event that gets cycled through all of the other ones and comes around for a little while.
@@Matikz007 this event would be perfect for talk like a pirate day (assuming blizzard still has that as an event on the calendar)
I spent two and a half days grinding out the 40 levels of Renown and my experience ranged from pure misery and spite to antidepressant fueled emptiness. Every moment I spent playing the game was incredibly unpleasant, and the content creator tournament just feels like them begging for any positive press for the game mode.
the content creator tournament just feels like a bribe IMHO.
Honest question here: "WHY?" I really don't understand it.
@@exilenl I have an issue with hyper fixation and I’m unemployed. The two are unrelated, fortunately. So between vomiting out résumés to every business in town I have a lot of free time and spiraling mental health to deal with. Plunderstorm gave me something to focus on and I hated it enough that I wanted to get it done as quickly as possible. I haven’t even logged back in to WoW since I finished the grind.
@@hmisay4976 Not that I'm gonna tell you what you should and should not do, but focusing on something you hate to do while already dealing with spiraling mental health... Doesn't seem like a positive thing does it? edit: typo
I haven't ever had interest in battle royale games. Once upon a time I did watch such games, but I never played them. Now, I won't ever play them, or watch them. So putting these rewards behind a game mode that I clearly don't have any interest in playing at all, is a big slap in the face to me.
Have you played the game mode even though you have no interest in it? Even if you haven't, many people who feel the same way have. That's why these rewards exist, to pad the stats of the newly launched mode and make it appear successful(in a way it is successful since it convinced people who don't even want to play it, to play it for the rewards). Which makes this more likely to happen in the future because they know if they tie in reward fomo then the game doesn't need to appeal to everyone, because most of everyone will still play it for the rewards. Self-fulfilling prophecy, and why these type of reward loops came to be in the first place.
@@randomhero123 No, and I don't plan to play this game mode. I thought I already made it clear that I didn't play the game mode to start with?
Yes, this is exactly what MMORPG players want, a battle royale... /s
the sarcasm is strong with this one....
Better late than never is what they say
@@kaly8329 right, brake late cause an accident, descend late and crash a plane [also descend too early or too fast or too slow], late to a sale and no inventory....
late to a party that rocked the neighborhood....
late is never preferable or cool or a good thing except when it comes to new releases....being late to that party means all the bugs theoretically have been fixed
would you wanna be late to a Martial arts tournament where you were to defend your championship? no that'd look incredibly bad!
never be late, be on time, be early....scope the place out and if it's new releases sleep it off first! and if it's a bad scene get out, say you were there but you didn't like the look of those skinheads....and when they ask act like they're the ones with the problem...
I mean you don't wanna have anything to do with them right?? lol
Guild Wars 2 had this battle royale mode as their final beta test event, and it was awesome. I had fond memories of that time, even if I played it once. That was in 2012, not even I predicted this type of gameplay would be a hit in the future, and in 2017, PUBG ignited the gaming sphere. And I remembered that time back in 2012 when I started playing PUBG.
Its almost like they looked up trendchaser, saw a picture of the Hi Rez logo, and got offended.
Something blizzard came up with backfired and blew up in their face? Is it a day that ends with an Y allready?
Gonna be absolutely brutally honest here, I think this video may have (just like the gamemode) needed a bit more cooking. You answer your own questions before you intend to, in ways you don't intend to either. You pose that it could lead players into playing WoW itself, while also saying it does not play in any shape like WoW. You say letting it be free to access would've kept the "area under the bar" larger, however you're doing the exact thing you don't want to by inflating the game's numbers beyond the point that it could sustain, inevitably leading to a sharp drop once the gamemode ends or the hype dies off; it'd just be a larger peak than what it looks like now. You suggest that the hate comes from players being forced to PvP for rewards, and that it's marketing's fault. This is probably your most correct statement, but you prefer to not state what the actual problem is even though you mentioned it earlier. It's FOMO. Limited time rewards exclusive to this mode that don't seem to be intended to be released anywhere else after this is gone, pure and brutal FOMO.
The point I believe you missed the most here, is that you believe Blizzard has "fumbled the bag" (x 16) because players outside of the WoW space would be interested in playing this game. Since you brought it up, I think Realm Royale is a great example to look at here. That game's launch was mediocre, it only brought in people who were interested in the Hirez sphere and thought it might be interesting to see their take on a battle royale. What's been scrubbed from memory is when the game had a crazy massive spike where it became popular was a single weekend (I think) where the Fortnite servers were dead. And that's the catalyst, why on earth would anyone outside of the WoW sphere want to play a pirate themed Realm Royale reskin in WoW, when they could just shoot Goku out of the sky and do the skibbidy toilet on their head after? And it is THAT reason why this gamemode is actually perfect for Blizzard, because their intended audience was people within the WoW sphere to get interested and say "yeah I'll put down $15 to resub and give it a go". It is something for players to do and it is locked behind sub to encourage people to pay up and try it out because it gets the line up, and then maybe a few more people might stay around a little longer once it dips away. AND THAT IS FINE. It doesn't need to be any bigger, and it's given them valuable tools and lessons for the future of WoW.
I hope none of this feels too mean, and I do not in any way wish to personally attack you, but I just feel like this video missed a mark of quality you normally aim for, and since you asked for opinions I felt it right to give mine. Appreciate the work you do, go and get that bag, even if it is a little fumbled.
I mean the thing is with the rewards here. They are something MANY would love to have, as there aren't many GREAT Pirate themes gear/costumes and the few the game has have you grind a bunch of stuff.
Now they bring this full on Pirate event and full on pirate rewards...but only for this Battle royale mode that you need to play over 100 games at least. And it is a TIMED event too. And it is PvP...and does not even play the way you are used to. So what amount of PVE/RP and such players who wanted to have these pirate rewards, only to see what this really was probably went ''fuck, I have to force myself through this if I want this stuff for the actual things I wanna do''.
It is just...so many mindboggling decisions.
Seeing the gameplay and the whole discussion on "Doing the game mode to earn rewards" vs "Earnign rewards while doing the game mode" makes me think of PvP in FF14.
It's a cool game mode and one I play a lot of even as a person who mostly only did PvE before in my life. But the rewards there fall off a cliff once you get to rank 25.
But the ones you do get? They are very rewarding and the game is fun.
I think Plunderstorm has the opposite effect than pvp in FF14, where the rewards are so much more important than having fun with the game mode.
This was a smart way for them to up retails active player count for the quarterly report.
title update in real time
Haven't touched the game since 9.2, so I won't be playing it, but as someone who normally hates PvP and BR, this looks genuinely fun to me. It doesn't have the obnoxiously high amount of saves, abilities and defensives you normally get in PvP, or everything I dislike in BR. That said, keeping it a secret for so long, knowing many people hate PvP, seems monumentally stupid to me.
As someone who got to 40 renown and even won a few matches in solo and duo, it is NOT a well thought out mode lol. It's fun in the same way any janky beta mode is, with the game devolving into who can spam the most stun locking abilities wins
Michael, Plunderstorm is NOT World of warcraft. Just like Rumble is not World of Warcraft, and Hearthstone is not World of Warcraft, and Heroes of the storm is NOT World of warcraft. It's in the Warcraft universe, but entierly different games. They usually give out rewards in OTHER games for just logging in and maybe playing a couple of games. I have zero issues with how Rumble handled whatsherface pet. I have no issue with how Hearthstone handled the original horse. I think there was something for Heroes of the storm too, cause I played it for a hot minute. It was: log in, play a couple of games, see how you like it, you get a nice pet or mount for it, then off you go. NOT with Plunderstorm. 40 renown levels, that was already buffed and still feels slow, a whole game mode people don't want to play, and many many FOMO mounts and pets and XMOGS into World of warcraft, that is NOT Plunderstorm. That is why people are angry.
Interestingly enough, the hybrid combat system (cross between wow tab targeting and GW action combat) is the system being used by upcoming MMO Ashes of Creation whose persistent Alpha testing will begin in Q3 of this year,
Were were
You guys have been absolutely killing it lately. "Fumbled bag" is absolutely the right way to put this
They could've brought in a ton of new and old players with this, but instead, they basically catered to the people who are already paying them for regular WoW anyway... So all they really did was get less people playing regular WoW because some of them are playing this instead.
There's something poetic about the character being chased by a giant moving pile of cash for minutes on end over the course of this video.
I think the main problem with "being forced to do this mode for the rewards" it's that's the mode is a timed event.
If it was a permanent thing, then even the biggest PVP hater, could just log in once a day, do the daily for 1050 plunder and be finished in 3 months of barely any PVP-ing.
This being a timed thing puts a minimum daily grind required to get everything - it's only like ~2400 plunder a day, but still it requires a fixed daily commitment.
It's also why people who hate PVP/that mode do it - because it's doable. Sure most of them will never use those rewards (maybe with the exception of the parrot mount), but the rewards are achievable, even if you don't PVP - just do the quest ~300-400 times and you are done - it's a mindless, timed grind to them, but we know that MMORPG players will do mindless grinds, even if they hate it.
If the rewards were just for winning, or killing others, you would get way less people complaining about being forced to do it, because the rewards would be unachievable for them - just like you don't see many collectors complaining about having to do top ranked PVP for mounts.
Then if PVE is valid (albeit slower) method to achieve the rewards, people who don't PVP will treat the PVP-ers in Plunderstorm like an unnecessary obstacle ruining their time, which is already limited by the end date of the event.
If I had to guess, the success of battlegrounds in hearthstone (free gamemode) made blizzard almost bitter, in the same way they changed the ToS in wc3 reforged to not allow another dota to happen under their noses. As a result blunderstorm isn't on the trial account, which is a mistake
If only they took Heroes of the Storm off of life support and started doing cool stuff with it.
One of the ex-Blizz dev's on twitter hinted that this game-mode existed internally for some time but without the Pirate concept. Makes me wonder what they had planned before.
Thank you for posting this video - I truly enjoyed it! LOVED that you did the psychological deep dive - so many gamers just don't pay attention to such an important aspect of being a gamer!
I saw words change in front of my eyes, but I will forever remember you "were were"!
Plunderstorm, more like Blunderstorm. its not PvPvE, its PvP with the occasional sprinkling of an E.
I'll give you money to come up with one original thing, I'm sure you desperately need it. I'll double it if you stop liking your own comments.
@@godlygamer911 you okay?
agreed it would be so much better if they separated the PvP elements & put 60 players on a round map like an arena but still have the storm closing in around them as time passes were they just fight each other no npc's no chests just pure PvP. A true battle royal & let them earn their renown that way.
Then they could have a PvE version for those that don't want to PvP so they can grind their renown & earn their loot in peace completing objectives, killing npc's & looting chests. Still have the storm closing in still have the time limit but nobody gets screwed & time wasted because of some PvP obsessed asshat killing them before they can even start to gather plunder.
So how do you win the PvE version sounds a bit dumb.
And the PvP is bad
Thr big problem is that they've tied cosmetics to it. Cosmetics are basically the only thing that still matters in wow for most players.
If playing the mode rewarded you with actual plunder that could be sold for reasonable gold in wow I bet the amount of people who feel forced to play it would drop dramatically.
The reward bit was very interesting to listen to. One additional reason why I think people are feeling like they have to do this for the rewards is that the rewards are so unique and not really seen before in the game. How many pirate sets have we had in the game before this mode? How many extremely detailed and unique pirate sets have we had in the game before this? Almost none. I'm fairly sure that if they had just done a recolor of an existing set for this mode, there would not have been nearly as many people doing it just for the rewards. The reason I think that is, is look at PvP in the game now. Elite sets from PvP are always just recolors of the raid sets, so because there's other alternatives to that Elite set, people don't feel like they have to do it because they have a second way of getting it, its not the same but its close enough for most. But with the plunderlord set, its such a unique cosmetic that a large amount of people want, they feel forced into it.
This is a lot more fun than the cobalt assembly grind
I'm glad you're enjoying this mode, I tried it and I'm really bad at it compared to other players. I tried to "get good", but I found myself not having fun and getting frustrated.
As far as I can tell there is no skill-based matchmaking built into Plunder Storm so I just feel like I'm being fed to PVP players. I kept my sub alive for the mystery event but now that I know it's just a battle royal without matchmaking and I'm not enjoying it I cancelled my sub.
If this hadn't been a surprise I probably would have ignored it.
But because it was a mystery that I was excited about then I was given something that I didn't enjoy, I had another emotional reaction, I got mad and left, and I took my money with me.
Yeah, I'm with you. I retired from PvP a while ago. I'm cannon fodder for players with faster reflexes now. 😅
the last time i had an emotional connection to an unlock in WoW was "Hand of Adal", maybe the original ZA Bear
the free trial accounts should be allowed as much as they should be allowed to try out classic to lvl 20 to draw in more players because classic you need an active sub and someone may hate retail free trial but love classic then sub for just classic etc but instead forced to play retail on trial. After almost 20yrs of WoW now I think Free Trials need an update. But that’s my opinion.
depending if they used full modern server sizes or not might explain why they put it behind a paywall to some degree. because it likely reduced the amount of stress and que times an older server would have to deal with since it was a limited time event.
Thats kinda why I love Wake of Ashes, because it feels like an active ability and its so satisfying to use
As someone who only touched it to get the rewards it offers, I didn't leave feeling hollow.
I left feeling relieved that I didn't need to do it anymore, and glad that I got the pirate set et al before they removed it, or before they changed the renown track to something else in order to keep the game mode alive off the backs of people who don't want to be there but want the rewards it gives you in another game.
Honestly, it just really shouldn't exist.
It's insulting to existing players to have a "patch" that is this absurdly disconnected from the actual game.
It's just confusing to new players to have this be their potential introduction to WoW.
And battle royal fans aren't going to be interested in some time limited FOMO minigame that's locked behind the paywall of a seperate game.
Seriously; who is supposed to be the audience for this?
Getting a reward you want by doing something you don't enjoy... so, a job?
9:49 - So something that seems obvious is that yes giving everyone access the first weekend whilst the hype is the greatest would be a "smart" idea. However, consider the narrative coming out from overloaded servers, a buggy mess or community outrage over something...Giving the current community time to settle into the gamemode, fixing anything thats not working before going into an "activation" event (say the creator clash), which will hopefully help carry the interest of this gamemode into an free wekend or similair, seems far more sane.
But then again, I do not make the $$$ of the top decisionsmakers so I presume that makes their choices far more well informed and clever than anything I'd think off :)
Rumour has it Blizzard are working on a point and click adventure.
You want the rewards from something you don't want to do... You mean like going to work? 😆
It's like how I've had people complain about raid rewards in Destiny. Doesn't help the gear earned stopped being uniquely for running the raid easier and is regular loot just earned from a raid.
Except here you're paying for the privilege of working.
I’ve been playing duos with 2 very different types of players and it’s so interesting how different it feels. My best friend is one of the “I’m being forced to do this because there’s a mount” people. Playing together has made it more fun for her, but man that attitude is exhausting and drains the fun out for me. My fiancé and I however are playing just to have a good time together and man it’s so much better and frankly our plunder income is so much better. I’m in the middle, I’m the type of player who mainly likes collecting, but I’m not out here trying to force myself into a bad time for more pixels. I think people need to accept that WoW is a game tor many different types of players and no one should force themselves to be miserable because they have no one to blame but themselves for that.
I think this is very much geared for phone, and this is a way of introducing it, without getting torched.
From this video I can tell you this: visually, Plunderstorm looks like what retail WoW should look like.
Wat
@@omarcomming722 If you compare retail and classic, you will notice a change in the position of the character on screen. In classic, the character is predominantly on the bottom half of the screen, that makes the world feel biggers and more readable. In retail, the character is in the middle third of the screen. That makes the screen feel stuffed and hides a lot of the world making it feel smaller and less important. It also makes it hard to read action. That is why in third person shooters the character is usually to the side or is shown from knees/hips up. In WoW, to mitigate that the camera has to be zoomed out to a more isometric-like position, like in Plunderstorm or how players themselves usually try zooming out.
Also the simplified clean UI. Five skills plus two weapons is a great choice. Maybe just add the ability to switch to a secondary skill bar and secondary weapons, and you would have a much better UX than current retail WoW.
@@AndarilhoMarco Oh I completely agree but retail and classic do that to my knowledge, I don't have either installed right now to check but I know that I can't play either without dynamic camera addon precisely because of this.
They both stick your character in the middle of the screen and it makes the world look stupid and claustrophobic as you said. I also didn't see any difference with Plunderstorm either tho, looks like regular retail client with some UI changes and that's it.
Blizzard: We have this really awesome candy that we know you'll love, but you gotta get in the van first.
Me: How about you let me try out this awesome candy and MAYBE then I'll get in your van.
@21:00 Michael, about your reasoning of why its fine that it is a limited-time event, the same thing could be said about dungeons, that once you've done them for a while they're run their course, you know everything about them. So why is it not ok to have dungeons be limited run, but ok for this battle royale mode? The reasoning is not sound.
Or they could just make fairly monetized, ethically created video games. Just a thought.
I know I'm old, but I'm so happy that I'm not trapped in the loot box/shiny object mindset. Man that would suck looking at games through nothing but that viewpoint.
The deal with the marketing is that they probably didnt believe that this would work.
So they framed it wrong, they hide it and they're just filling it with WoW rewards, to bring enough people and report it as a success.
People are playing because streamers are playing, rewards are there, etc.
Showing this way before and having people discuss all this "F2P or not", "rewards for non-pvp or non-br players", etc. would kill it really fast before the release.
It was basically a scam for most wow players.
I was excited thinking about all the cool ways they could use the world for a secret patch, especially after they said it was inspired by SoD, just for it to be a battle royale completely unrelated to WoW. They shouldve advertised it as a surprise new mode, and not a patch inspired by SoD.
Another issue is making this limited time and dumping 40 levels of renown rewards into it. Put the good stuff in20 levels of renown and stick the other stuff on vendors or something. 40 levels is too much for a limited time event. I think it would be more fun if the map was bigger or less people at the start, and randomize elites and chest locations. I’ve struggled to find landing spots without other people nearby.
One thing that doesn’t help is there hasn’t been good reward chasing systems like this for the rest of the game… not really. Grinding renown in WoW is mind numbing and rewards don’t come close to these rewards. Trading post has the cool rewards but points are limited and there’s no defined activity to journey through towards achieving the rewards so it doesn’t feel like an activity.
Lastly, there’s enormous potential for a pve version of plunderstorm or utilizing the concept. Maybe on a smaller scale almost like a raid but your group is split up on the start, you collect/build your skills as you kill things and start finding party members. Ultimately you start tackling tougher and tougher big mobs as you group back up, heading to the final huge boss(es).
So you mean the system from battle for azeroth? 😂
I want the cool pirate gear, i think it looks awesome. Plunderstorm just isn't fun - I hope they keep it around because i feel it'll take an age to get to the 100k nessessary for everything
Bellular literally describing the Trials of Osiris psychology.
I believe this isn't bad to play because I've heard enough people say it at this point... but my GOD does it look like absolute ARSE.
This video makes me think of why Helldivers 2 is so good. There's TONS of meaningful rewards to work towards... in a game thats HELLA fun to ACTUALLY play almost constantly! And most rewards, esp the hard ones that take longer effort, aren't just "gun that shoots faster", it's weapons that require an entirely different gaming expereince, like the shotty that's a plasma grenade launcher, then unlocking a sniper rifle that can shoot through armor, then unlocking a pistol that hits harder than any primary weapon you can mix and match with primaries, etcetc forever.
I feel like we're running into the limits of the MMO format technically. There's only so many ways you can go press 1 and have X happen, VS the FPS and action games that can have like 15 systems all overlapping to create a perfect 5 second gameplay sequence you'll remember for your entire life. RPGs usually have to get around this by making story and experiential factor highly impactful b/c numbers can only making things interesting to a certain point.
(FFXIV knows and does this all the way down from leadership to designer. WoW.... tries to be an impressive action game narrative while being extremely limited by it's requisite simple engine. Going back to WoW story that was a hundred "man is here, man is evil, KILL MAN TIMES 15!!! GRR!" one after another after playing FFXIV for so long where even the bear ass quests have at least SOME lore justification as part of it, lol... couldn't get past about 2 days of playing WoW anymore.)
All the poor wow players are so hopped up on numbers that they want the 'rewards' they don't want b/c WoW has the culture of numbers where having 90 is good, but having 91 is better, so the players all seem to be addicted to these rewards for their own sake and for peer pressure, basically, rather than real intrinsic value.
Imagine goading someone completely unfamiliar with wow into paying a lot of money for a BR game mode that outside of it is nothing like what WoW actually is as not even an mmo but as a game in general. It’s like a prank from the devs.
were were
Were where?
If blizzard didn't want people to approach this mode from a reward-centric mindset, they shouldn't have made it a time-limited grind. If this is an "experiment," that they intended to throw out temporarily there just to gauge interest it shouldn't have had any rewards at all. Instead they said HERE IS ALL THE SHINY THINGS, PAY US MONEY RIGHT NOW BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T THEY'RE GONE FOREVER. FOMO is all this company knows how to do anymore.
I think it's fine. It's a cool mode I'm enjoying and get to play it as a subscriber.
Love you all :)
Video title might need looked at? :P
I AM A SPOON
thanks!
- michael
Uppercase B at least :P@@BellularNews
Have a great night Michael
@@BellularNews ah a talking spoon!
@@BellularNewsI thought you were a fork.
There is no spoon @@BellularNews
It may be a good thing for some people to be shown how captive they really are in a live service hobby. Funnily enough it takes a new event that you dont enjoy to show you how many things bug you and you are merly there because of habit, not because of fun.
The same thing actually happened to me in warframe. I realized it, took a break and didn't pick it up again since. The game is fun but grinding for some new stuff when all your friends put the game down long ago felt more like work and the rewards weren't that interesting to begin with.
Mucho text, ty for reading
Wait... Wildstar combat? You click the ability and it just happens "physically".
I think it's fine for PvP modes to have locked content, but not too many. I see it as the same as like Savage Raids or Mythic Raid rewards, stuff not everyone will do, but for the people who do them it's a great incentive. PvP modes need rewards you can't get anywhere else, or else the mode will suffer a decline if alternative sources can be found. It's unfortunate, but it needs it.
I have felt this way for pvp for so long.
I am glad to push far into keys
I am glad to wait and come back later on mythic
But PVP?
I hate all the cool ass mounts and sets I have missed, cause i am just not good enough to hit gladiator, and because of accessibility stuff there is no way I could get gladiator. I have hit 1800 at times, 2100 at others, but those were sooooo much time commitment, so many frustrated nights of literally hitting 1798, and then losing aqnd going down to 1600, then back up to 1799, then back down to 1500, to THEN get to 1800
I would like to see this mode become a standalone game.
I played wow back in late vanila to early cata.
and Im a roleplayer and I remember doing some really boring task for rewards mostly cosmetic stuff.
also when was it when wow announced the first ever backpack item and it was locked to a real life bought item or what it now was.
(my character as noted in the MYRP addon character sheet was almost always carrying ether a buzzbox or a backpack depending on what the guild even called for me carrying.
what I think is the biggest issues whit this is the fact that alot of the rewards from level 1 to level 40 is stuff you can´t find anywhere else.
Like want a pirate outfit(note some time since I last played) well there is a T-shirt plus pants + hat if you do a insane grind involving you rep dumping yourself whit Booty bay to gain rep whit a compelty useless faction whoes only rewards is the final rep tier giving you said T-shirt pants and hat reward.
so player are going to look at this and go I can ether rep grind for 2 weeks or do this... I will also get some other rewards.
I mean there would be one thing if the reward for this was a recollor of the pirate outfit that you can get in one of 3 ways but nope this item can only be gotten from here.
(my character as noted in the MYRP addon character sheet was almost always carrying ether a buzzbox or a backpack depending on what the guild even called for me carrying.
what I think is the biggest issues whit this is the fact that alot of the rewards from level 1 to level 40 is stuff you can´t find anywhere else.
Well, their rage at feeling "forced" to do something to earn the rewards, might stem from Blizzards repeated FOMO tactics over the years where they ADD a feature with rewards, only to REMOVE the feature later, but not remove the rewards, just to show people what they missed out on by not existing at the time this feature was available... They do this with expansion features a lot too! At the start of the next expansion pack, the previous one has had like 60% of it's content cut from the game! Remember the Legion expansion? Yeah 60% of the content of that expansion is just no longer available...
People have come to EXPECT that features are temporary in this game, so they feel FOMO pressure from plunderstorms, because they expect plunderstorms to be removed at some point, which means if they want the rewards, they HAVE to earn them ASAP, before the feature is removed from the game!
This pressure causes negative feelings in people, feelings of which that are not sustainable long-term.
In fact, it's been so bad that i became completely burnt out on WoW, every time i start the game, i just wanna quit playing, because i no longer have any positive emotions associated with WoW anymore, all this BS fomo and content-pruning has made me associate WoW with constant stress & time-sensitive pressure, and i don't enjoy being stressed or pressured, my subscription to this game has been cancelled for over a year now, and i have no plans on resubbing, none whatsoever, because i just don't want to feel the way i feel whenever i play WoW anymore... : /
A similar thing happened in Destiny 2 with the Not Forgotten gun. It was behind a competitive rank reward and it was kinda brutal because you lose points if you lose a match. It was the best ‘dueling’ gun you can have if you had good aim.
I got mine with friends legit, but I was a more PVP focused player. However, it introduced all types of bad things you can think of in pvp to the player base. Cheating, DDOS, paid boosting, match trades, streamer carries, etc.
Thinking back, I would have resolved this by making this gun a pvp only gun (which contradicts the main idea of Destiny). But this would probably solve the problem of people being in that mode who didn’t like it or just wanted to short cut it.
That gun wasn’t that good in pvp anyways, but I guess collectors gotta collect.
I am debating not renewing my WoW sub. I recently bought several games during the Steam Spring sale, and realized something. I was actually looking forward to, and legitimately enjoying, playing them. It's been quite some time that I actually looked forward to an evening of WoW. I force myself to do the same World Quests over and over for rep to buy items I won't even really use. I logged in last the day Plunderstorm launched, made a character for it, then logged out after having spent hours waiting around in SW to finish the Hearthstone event slog. The last time I found myself honestly enjoying WoW was going through the initial Dragonflight storyline. Over a year ago... 😔 I've been subbed since I came back early BFA.
Was this video uploaded twice? I thought I saw it earlier
My bigget problem with the mode is the FOMO with the rewards. It turns what would be a fun thing to occassionally dip into, into this massive grind that is offputting.
I would argue things like transmog and mounts should be obtainable in both PvP and PvE with gear and titles specific to a game mode only being available in that mode. Not wanting to PvP can be a lot more complicated than simply not enjoying the mode but that alone is still a valid reason not to lock general rewards behind it. Pirate transmogs and mounts aren't PvP specific themed items so they shouldn't be locked behind PvP where as gear with a PvP specific stat like x% damage to players is PvP specific and thus should be locked behind PvP.
I enjoyed it. I don't pvp in wow much anymore, but this is really simple and fun to engage with. I've won in single and duo multiple times (twice in a row in single), hit 40 renown a few days ago, and still play it with my son. I think it's pretty chill. If I die, no biggie, load another round. I set my personal goal to get 500-1000 rep per match. Anything better is gravy. With that goal, I'm rarely disappointed.
What blows my mind is how we’ve been programmed to be paranoid about data collection. And yet with all the data AAA has on its players and Blizzard has just on theirs they continue to show the world that they don’t know how to read the data points as accurately as you. 🤯
making me play a game i dont like and enjoy to gain rewards to a game that i like will make me not play any...there shouldnt be cross play rewards like this,if it was try this and gain a reward its ok but grind this that you dont like to get a reward to other game is just wrong
my guy has never met a collector in his life
I had this discussion with someone recently. Basically, 'why are you leaving lego fortnite running while afk?' Well it's a fun game. But you aren't playing it. Well I just do this one thing to get the rewards. So you just want the rewards. Well yeah but it's a fun game. So play the game for the fun game, not for the rewards.
I actually had fun getting some challenges completed for PoE this league because I liked the rewards, but the challenges also pushed me to keep a character in end-game instead of rerolling constantly. It foreced me to learn more and as a result I'm going into the next league even more excited.
Sounds fun. If it weren't for the required subscription, I would try it out.
This video really put it into perspective for me. Why do I play WoW, and why have I been playing it since 04? I don't care for raiding, I don't pvp..... I basically pay a monthly fee and an installment fee per expansion to interact with a story on a very low level. Has the story been rewarding enough to justify the monthly fee? Not every expansion, but most of them along with the different ways each character has changed and been balanced, but at the end of the day I prefer the solo element which is not really what WoW was designed for. I could just sit here and watch Bellular videos about WoW's storyline for free like I'm doing now.
There are too many that play games as if they're a job(and want endless progression/rewards) rather than for fun. Blows my mind
I love that they are doing things differently. The game mode feels great. But i just hate BRs. I also hate that they hyped up this patch and didn't reveal a single thing about it because as soon as i heard it was a BR, i got really disappointed.
The sad thing is, that if you played spellbreak (a game developed by proletariat, and then acquired by blizzard) you can notice the parallels in gameplay immediately. Fast spell slinging, with the ability to swap spells on the fly. A lot of the spells even play like the ones in spellbreak did. Essentially if spellbreak had gotten a better audience, it probably would have kept going, seeing how people liked this mode, developed most likely by that team.
As soon as I played the mode, I told my friends/guild that it plays exactly like Spellbreak(which I loved) but in a slightly jankier way since it's within WoW engine. Then I did some googling and realized Proletariat was acquired by Blizzard and it all made sense. It's hilarious how similar it is to Spellbreak and kinda proves this mode is a long term plan somehow. Whether that be through BR modes or utilizing the combat system into a revamped wow combat system or not is what I'm curious about. With Microsoft buying Blizzard and after years of missed player base of WoW only being on PC, I'm curious if eventually we'll see this type of combat system in WoW just for the sole purpose of dumbing down the amount of spells for a console release.
@randomhero123 I wish they'd just make a new version with wow spells/ characters, and just let that be the br. A more updated, polished, and new spellbreak set in the wow universe essentially.
@@Keyblader001 Exactly, the art style and physics/movement of Spellbreak but WoW things would have been great. The basic attacks have some major issues registering on Plunderstorm and I feel like it's due to implementation within the engine.
Finally, Tod's leather jacket is gone.
it's honestly something to play during content droughts like several other games blizzard has released which fell apart within a short time frame.
I think you are damn right. I really disliked Cataclysm at the time and wasn't a client for Blizzard (was from Private servers) but the free level 20 PVP they added during Cata was what made the official servers be an option for me. It just needed a narrative push that came with warlord then to turn me in. Let's be real, free weekend and stuff like that are not an immediate return on investment, but as the player try it, it make him have this declic that will make him consider favorably the next time there's an incentive to play.
Now if gold still had value beyond being a microtransaction you could make each type of contents rewards bind on equip and have an economy in your mmorpg where people can do things theu enjoy but others don't and be rewarded past unlocking all the rewards via gold from selling rewards
I don’t understand tying cosmetics to this. I don’t think Blizzard is confident enough to have a game mode come out just for fun. They need to have rewards tied to all their content.
I subbed up to try plunderstorm. For me it has been fun with friends but not really on my own, and having the grind of plunder attached to it was pretty draining as I know I'm not going to have the time to get enough of it in the time the event is on. For me one of the most interesting things about this mode was the inclusion of all the more action combat style abilities. As someone who plays a lot of guild wars 2, the versions in wow feel really quite bad, a lot of things hitting when they feel like they shouldn't or not when they feel like they should - this surprised me in becoming one of my major frustrations in my games. Something I loved was how quick it was to go in and out of games, really improved on the general BR experience for me which is often way too slow. Overall a mixed bag, definitely feels more like a rough experiment than a polished product, I'd say I don't hate it, nor do I love it.
Is the other commentator coming back? I enjoyed the conversational format.
Looks cool. Why it's a temporary mode and I can't just use my character to grind honor this way? I do not know. Look guys, we spent a lot of time making this cool new PVP game mode, something the live game hasn't seen in decades and it's not in the game! Not only is it outside, but it's also FOMO, temporary!
ikr? Glad i unsubbed during BFA.
I was a decade-long shill of the game until that point, i can't bring myself to play the game anymore... I only have negative emotional associations with WoW now, every time i start the game up, i feel stressed, and time-pressured, which makes me wanna quit out of the game to avoid feeling these awful emotions. : /
Games are supposed to be fun, and WoW is JUST stressful now, not fun. : /
they should of put the new pvp mode option, not a limited time event and people would accepted it more, but because they made it is own login screen and everything else it doesnt feel right .
Yep, only way to fix this FOMO stuff blizzard is engaging in, is to quit the game, and let the money, or lack thereof, speak for itself! :P
I've been unsubbed since BFA.
I dislike how random the pvp part of it feels. Cab either neve catch up from people running from me, or I get anhiliated by level 5's as so as I crash land.