Recoiless Air pistol - a brief history. Feinwerkbau 65 80 90 100 Diana mod 6 10 Model giss airgun
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- Опубліковано 16 вер 2018
- A brief rundown of the developement of my favorite group of airpistols:
Recoiless spring powered target air pistols.
1960- Diana Model 6
1965 -Feinwerkbau 65
1975- Diana Model 10
1977-Feinwerkbau 80
1982-Feinwerkbau 90
1988-Feinwerkbau 100
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FWB MODEL 65 Cal.177 a dream pistol still shoots like new since 1990 when i bought it. thank you for the video
Great pistols, my 90 is one of my favourites. Thanks for watching
I remember these air pistols throughout my life.
it's fascinating how you have compiled so many of them in this video.
Thanks. Showing them in chronological order helps demonstrate the evolution and how they all relate to each other, which I find very interesting. I hope to do a similar video with match rifles, going from 1870 through to the 1990’s.
This is a wonderful video! I own the FWB-65 & Diana Model 6M. I am contemplating getting the Izzy 46M! Thanks again - this was very enjoyable!
I think the 46m is the only one of these under lever SSP match pistols still in production. I’ve shot one and they are excellent, hope you can find one. Thanks
Excelent video. Cutaways ! Never seen a gis system demonstrated so clearly. My G6 has less recoil than my Olympus OM10 camera of the same era.
If your cameras recoiling you need a muzzle break gor the flash bulb
Great video! My heard bleeds and jumps at the same time watching those cut-away models. Thanks for so much detail and love!
Thank you, the Model 6 cutaway has some historical significance as Diana have confirmed that the modifications were carried out by their factory and it was on display in their factory showroom in Rastatt. It’s a thing of beauty.
Great video, very informative. Lots of info on break barrel springers and ssp air pistols. Thank you.
The Tau-7 deserves a mention here, it's actually still made. I have one, and just love it!
That would be in part 4, but I haven’t got a Tau 7. There will be a Drulov DU10 and an Aeron Chameleon though. Cheers
Thank you! I truly enjoyed the video. More please.
Just stumbled upon this video. Thoroughly enjoyed it. Thank you!
Well done, love it!! thank you for putting the effort to put this together!
Thanks, glad you like it. I’m planning a 10m match rifle video soon too. Cheers
Excelent video. Liked alot and learnt loads. Richard, lv
Still have m FWB65. Bought it from John Law's Air Rifle Headquarters in about 1973. Just had it serviced at Pyramid Air in Ohio. I routinely pick off soda cans at 50 yards with it. It will never be sold but given to my oldest Son. It is an Air worthy treasure for any appreciative air gun enthusiast.
Fantastic, I have a reprint of a 1967 Air Rifle Headquarters catalogue which has great write ups for the FWB 65 and all the different recoiless air rifles available at the time. Reading the contemporary reviews of them at the time is fascinating, it will be the subject of a future video. Cheers
Wonderful video, thank you for sharing! Great to see the cutaway models, very nice collection.
Thanks
Thank you for the video. Loved shooting my model 65 !
Scored a 387/400 in practice way back in 1983 with it.
Thanks, good shooting back in the day with your 65! they are such a good design. My 90 is the most accurate spring pistol I have ever shot
Thank you for the video.
You’re welcome
A very good air pistol video has some very usefull info and history in it.
Thanks for a great history…. I’ve only got simple pistols but love them… Diana LP8 I love and also Zoraki/Wembley Alecto in both 177 and 22 plus the simple but superb Beeman P17 copies etc. Thanks.
Thanks to this video I now want a Feinwerkbau 100.
If it wasn’t for this video I wouldn’t have known about it.
Job done 😊 cheers
Update: I got one! It is the same black and grey finish as yours, only a few scratches but it works really well. I’ve had a lot of fun shooting the first few rounds! I’m looking for some lubricant since it doesn’t seem to compress very smoothly when it’s almost fully open.
Very enjoyable history of how makers tried for recoil free pistols. I have a model 10 which is great but heavy as described. Looking for a 65 or later but good ones are rare as hens teeth. Thanks for a great video.
Hi, yes very rare in uk. Loads on German auction sights like egun but postage may be problematic at the mo.
I enjoyed this Vid very much. Thanks. I like to shoot many of those pistols, but I get good results with an old Webley pistol with a lot of trembling. Last saturday I could aquire a FWB 102 in mint condition for a reasonoble price with badges from competitions in it.
The best results I had were with the Walther LP3 and the Pardini, but there were problems with spareparts and mechanical quality of the Pardini.
By now, I had not shot for years and i am old, so I just don't miss the target, but I miss the ten, as I had hit years ago so often.
Glad you enjoyed it, thanks.
Since I made this video I have acquired an LP3 & Pardini and I know what you mean, the Pardini is crudely made in comparison to the fwb100. Still a lovey pistol though…
I suppose as you get older you can just increase your target size, most people struggle to get a shot in the black anyway let alone a ten! I love Webleys, if you haven’t seen these there’s some lovely ones that are pretty accurate here:
ua-cam.com/video/qt2zfenq4QI/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/te6fFFAV1hE/v-deo.html
Happy shooting.
Cheers,
Matt
@@dkjngl1
I had an LP3, but there are no longer Gaskets availabel here in Germany. The Pardini I had is Italian Junk, but very precise. Just the same with Motorbikes, my Cagiva Elephant 900cc. The Hook, that holds the Barrel broke. Power was weak and the Gasket was damaged.
Since 10 Years, I am allowed to pur the Pistol on a Rest for Shooting, but until now, I refused to do so. I still have a Stock of old bigger Targets, before they were made smaller. Greetings and happy shooting
Hi, there is a gunsmith in U.K. who is an expert with all pneumatic airguns. For the LP3 he machines a new piston onto which he fits 2 O’rings. I had mine serviced by him this way. If you want I can put you in touch with him but you would have to post the pistol to the U.K.
Thank you for sharing... very interesting
Well! I learned a lot today! The cutaways were unexpected and very helpful. I've never seen any of this in person and probably never will. Too bad! It's funny; America seems awash in small arms, except for this aspect. I keep hearing about fantastic accurate match pistols that are either out of stock, or just generally unavailable... you might hope that one turns up on eBay. At least we get a look at them on UA-cam. Thanks!
keep an eye out, I’m sure something will come up eventually. Thank you, glad you enjoyed it
Havent seen an informative vid on airguns until this
Excellent presentation of my favorit makers :)
really fun video. i purchased the rifle and pistol when daisy was the importer in the early 70's. had the f65 upgraded to mark ll with dual spring by beeman. also drilled and tapped for their blue series scope. boy, were my shooting friends jealous. both still look as good as the day i got them.
Thanks, the scoped 65 sounds awesome! I also love the rifles, I compare a FWB 150 to a rare recoiling FWB 110 in this vid if you haven’t seen it: ua-cam.com/video/X5kRyHqotUs/v-deo.html
Cheers
¡IMPRESIONANTE! Congratulations.
So well explained. Thank you!
Thank you, glad it was of interest.
Very nicely done!Thanks.
Cheers Trevor, glad you enjoyed it, Matt
excellent video!
Thank you very much!
great video ,,, the cut aways are very interesting , tidy shooting too.
Thank you 😊
Great video!
Thanks, I thought you’d already seen this one, I know you like a 10m air rifle 😊
Excellent - Now we need episode 2, moving on to CO2 match pistols. I have an old Hammerli single and a Walther CM2.
I've seen (for sale) two different CO2 pistols that could be charged from a tank! This seems like a long way to go, and the 12g chargers seem cheap enough and easy to find. On the other hand I do have a few CO2 tanks, and love gadgets so I thought about it!
Great video ✊🏾
truly amazing thank yuo
Excellent, remember all of them from pictures in airgun world, your a good shot too, jealous Moi? regards, David.
Cheers mate
I have a Feinwerkbau 103 and i take the lever for each shot!
Ive been shootinh ISSF 10 meter for four months but just in January 28 2023 i become federate in Portugues Shooting Federation FPT(Federação Portuguesa de Tiro) and yesterday had a match a made 444 points and my record is 463!
I receive the gun from my brother from christmas and used before but borrowed!
I love the precision and the fact of always have air and never need to fill up!
Have nice shots🎉
The 103 is excellent and it sounds like you are getting the most out of it 😊
Happy shooting from London!
@@dkjngl1 thanks!im getting from her what i can!
Happy shooting from Azores, Portugal
@@dkjngl1 roday i tryed BR 25 but i like 10 meter ISSF pistol more
Only air pistols for me… they say 10m Air pistol is the most difficult shooting discipline, I think all other shooting skills grow from this. My 10m pistol helps my 55yd air rifle 😊
@@dkjngl1 i love 10 metera ISSF!Yes its dificult but is where the fun is🎉
The FWB 100 is Beautiful !!!
I’ll be shooting it this weekend for the first time in ages, they are awesome air pistols. Thanks 😊
Excellent video! Unfortunately youtube algorithms decided to hide this video from me for many years.
Subscribed.
Glad you found it eventually, how did you find it? Was it a ‘Feinwerkbau’ search?
I have one of the Original with the turn over hand protector. Brilliant with my bought bell target.
I share a passion for these fascinating engineering marvels.
I have an Original 6M which needed resealing when I got it but now shoots very well at 10m competition and can still stand comparison with modern PCP guns for accuracy but is a little more difficult to shoot consistently probably due to its extra weight.
My main competition gun is an older FWB P30, their original PCP gun but I was fortunate enough to recently pick up a Walther LPM1 which is a delight to use and easily capable of matching PCP pistols. I prefer shooting it above all my other pistols. It is my spare gun in case there is a problem with the FWB.
Walther are great but I have a special affection for Feinwerkbau, I feel they innovate more from a product design engineering angle rather that gunsmithing and consequently they have come up with some fantastic designs. Thanks
Great guns from a long time back
Very nice video very interesting well done 👍
Great stuff thanks.
Excellent vid.
Thanks 😊
Very well presented
Thank you very much
Excellent - Thanks
Been trying to locate one! 100, 102 or 103! Thank you! Semper FI!
They are rare and expensive in the UK but egun.de have lots, that's where I got mine. Just check they post to your country. google translate helps. Easy to fit new seals too.
I want to thank you for the info! Maybe someone will read this contact me with one for sale! Baikal ZM 46 is poplar here? But , with the embargo?Semper FI!
Many thanks.
very good video .... thank you
Thanks
Very nice Vid!
First class video!
Thank you.
Would it be o.k to use some info from your 'scrapbook' for an upcoming Bonehill Britannia video I'm planning please? your's is one of the very few resources on these fine rifles. Thanks
OK by me.just give a credit .regards Trevor
Should have a nice example of the p10 arriving this week, with a 220 Anschutz.
It’ll be interesting to compare it against the FWB100.
Smashing vid.
Thanks Ian.
Since making this vid I got a P10, great pistol which I think is historically important. But having stripped and resealed mine I think it’s a bit like an Italian sports car: looks fantastic, works well but not as well engineered as something German. The 220 is an awesome rifle, amazingly engineered and hugely innovative. Got a 100 years of 10m air rifles vid in the pipeline. Cheers, Matt.
Look forward to seeing that one, my track record for keeping stuff isn't very good, but I just had to own the p10 just to say I have.😳
Well done!
Cheers
Unfortunately I have no experience of the pistols in your excellent video. Except for the Feinwerkbau 65, which I can testify is incredibly accurate target gun. Makes me look like a a half decent shot, so I'm bound to say this 🤔.
Clever design
very very very nice video！
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it
I have the FWB 65 and 80 ! There extremely accurate.. i can split playing cards with them on 10M
I’ve never tried the card splitting thing.. a few clubs do that as an event on their vintage shoots. I’ll give it a try! Cheers
Inherited my grandfather's fwb model 2 he used in the 1973 Mexico city olympics. Been trying to find out more about it.
Have a read of this: www.pyramydair.com/blog/2015/11/37583/
@@dkjngl1 thank you
Suppppper video. Thank yuo.
Except for here in the US where multi stroke pneumatics and Co2 were king.
No we didn't really have much in the way of precision target shooting oriented guns until the Crosman mk1 and Mk2 came out, but we did have plenty of " recoilless " air pistols.
We needed firearms licenses in the U.K. for Co2 pistols back then, so even when Feinwerkbau bought out their CP2 co2 match pistols not many English shooters used them. Multi pump rifles like the Sharp innova/ace etc were popular here but not so much the pistols, not sure why.
Thank you for great presentation, it explain a lot of unknown things about 'spring' airgun, especially the cut off units. Germany are the best for these kind of engineering, I'm wondering do you have any videos or any cut off for a Diana mod 50 T01 Springer. Need information about how it works before I disassemble the unit to avoid any mistake. Looking forward sir.. best regards from Indonesia.
Hello, thanks for your comment.
I do not have a Diana 50 yet but I understand you have to disassemble the trigger unit to gain access to the piston and the trigger unit is VERY complicated and difficult to put back together.
There's a good video on the 50 here:
m.ua-cam.com/video/-lp-FLOtlpo/v-deo.html
Cheers
I really enjoyed your video, but there are also 4 screws to adjust the trigger of the FWB 65.
Hi, The FWB 80 had additional adjustments for position that the FWB 65 didn’t have. You are right though, the other adjustments for weight and travel are the same. Thanks, glad you enjoyed the vid.
The shotting cycle off the model 90 in this video is solid. No twang. Mine is quite noise with a twang. Did you sleeve the spring or use heavy tar? Thank you.
Hi, the video doesn’t pick up the sound properly but in real life this FWB90 shoots with a ‘Boing!’ All the 65/80’s I’ve seen do as well and it’s perfectly normal. The 110.150 & 300 rifles don’t for some reason though. Thanks
If you have access to a 3D printer and are in need for new barrel/bolt seals: I uploaded the STL files for the TPU ones I use on Thingiverse.
👍
*Very good video thanks for the video uploading good work* 😘😍👌👌👌👌👌...
Thanks, much appreciated
@@dkjngl1 yes ... Welcome sir 😊
Thanks for superb mini Documentary, Mr Dunk....is the Feinwerkbau a relatively quiet air pistol? Would like to use indoors
Regards, Luke
I meant to say it's the Feinwerkbau 65 I'm interested in
Hi Luke, the FWB65,80 & 90 all share the same mechanism and are reasonably quiet, but by no means silent. It’s really the spring that make a loud ‘boing!’ But no bang. The sound of the pellet hitting the target is usually quite lout when shooting indoors, so be selective about your backstop. I usually use a bundle of old magazines taped together. Cheers, Matt
@@dkjngl1 thanks for your reply, Mr Dunk , Regards Luke
Also Mr Dunk sorry to go on but I've seen a near Mint Model 65 advertised recently but it's £500, would you say that's reasonable?
Super Cunt Hook no worries. I’d say that was expensive, I paid £250 of the FWB90 which is much rarer. Lp65 £200-£300 but very rare in uk. Loads on German auction sights like egun but postage may be problematic at the mo
Question: Are the grips between the Feinwerkbau 65 and 80 interchangeable? I own the 80 and would like to know if 65 grips will work. Thanks!
Hi, I don’t know I’m afraid as I only have the 90. You could always check the parts diagrams on Feinwerkbau’s website and see if the grips from the 65/80 have the same parts number? Cheers
Very good presentation. I am interested in a Model 2. How does that compare to the spring types?
Many thanks,
Richard
Hi Richard. which model 2, Feinwerkbau or Walther?
@@dkjngl1 Feinwerkbau, the model after the 100?
I don’t know a huge amount about them, but they are CO2, so recoiless. You’d need to be able to refill the CO2 reservoirs though. Reviews at the time said they were great, all Feinwerkbau’s are!
@@dkjngl1 Thank you. It is the mechanical aspect of the sliding part that intrigues me. Also , the lack of any need for bottles or problems with pressure leaks points to a 65, 80 or 90 as being for me. The technical wizardry of both the Diana and FW pistols is very well shown in your video and your obvious enthusiasm is infectious.
Thanks,
you can’t go wrong with any of the Feinwerkbau sledge System spring pistols, the 65 usually has more basic plastic grips than the 80 & 90. They don’t come up for sale very often but if you keep an eye out you should get one. Good luck!
A very interesting video detailing how German engineering solved a very complex problem of recoil in air pistol (and indeed air rifle) design.
You have to credit the Germans for their engineering and forward thinking. You have a problem? German engineers will find a solution.
Many thanks for a great video.
I have to agree, I’m planning a similar video covering 100 years of target air rifles, and they are nearly all German.
Cheers
@@dkjngl1 I look forward to viewing you forthcoming video. I have never fired a recoiless air pistol or rifle except for the once common swinging forearm pneumatic type and co2 operated but never a spring piston type. When funds permit I shall seek a Feinwerkbau 65 or Diana mod 10 just to satisfy my own inner curiosity!
There is one similar design of air rifle which took the opposing piston concept a step further in which the two pistons move towards each other rather than away. It was made by a man called John Whiscombe from England. These rifles were truly recoiless and capable of 30ftlbs of energy in the larger calibres. I know we're not interested in power per se but the concept itself is interesting and deserves a mention.
Darren Cady your right, there were a few full power recoiless spring rifles for ‘sporting’ use, the ‘Park’ rifle and the Whistcombe. Both British. 6ftlb power limit in Germany so they never bothered. I was lucky enough to shoot a Whistcombe once, amazing rifles. I was at an auction a year ago and one sold for £7500 and an engraved one for £10,000! Doubt I’ll ever get one!
@@dkjngl1 Yes, I forgot about the Park rifles. Weren't they designed by Roy Hutchinson who also desigined the HR 81 underlever that ended up in the States under the Benjamin/Sheridan banner?
Twenty years or so ago I was offered a Whiscombe rifle for £1800. I turned it down not knowing they would be like hen's teeth with a price to match.
Still, we live and learn.
Beautiful Pistols! I am just thinking to get a FWB 65, if I can find a good One...anyway, do you think there is a way to mount a Red Dot on this pistol?
Thanks
If you search online for ‘fwb65 scope’ you can see people have fitted pistol scopes on the top, but as these add weight to the upper part of the pistol it would probably reduce the anti recoil effect of the sledge system. You’d have to add a rail to the pistol to be able to fit a scope or red dot. Cheers
@@dkjngl1 OK thanks...I tought that kind of "Rail" on the top was a Dovetail(11mm)... It is not?
And by the way...all this engineering for only 135m/sec., more or less...right? Is your FWB 65 doing better than that?
Cheers
That’s the power they put out, perfect for 10m accuracy. Hard to get more from that spring mechanism and more power would mean more recoil and less accuracy. Knowing Feinwerkbau they balanced the power with the recoil management system for the best accuracy. I shoot my FWB 90 out to 25yds and it’s as accurate as a pcp.
After some thought It would be nice if you could collaborate with John Griffiths as to how he set about to design, make,.etc.. his fine pistols and put it together in a video!
I’ll see if it’s doable, thanks for the suggestion 👍
the batteries seem to be not available.
Do you know of a reliable source of fresh batteries?
many thanks,
Richard
Richard stevenson
Hi.
They are 15v v74 batteries, widely available online. Varta are a good brand. Cold kills them so get a spare. Cheers
i have an original model 10 and a FW65 but i much prefer the 10 as my 65 has a distinct buzz on firing , its also easier to cock as the 65 twists your shooting hand wrist.
Hi, I think the larger match grips on the FWB 80 & 90 stops the twist you get with the slimmer grips on the 65, but they all make quite a noticeable ‘boing!’ On firing. The mod 10 has a nice crisp firing cycle...
Great pistols.... cheers.
I have diana 6, fwb80, fwb90 and fwb100 in my collection.
Very nice, which is your favourite?
@@dkjngl1 i like the fwb 100 very much.
@@abzyberdy me too, it’s my favourite for one handed shooting, the 90 is great for shooting two handed. Feinwerkbau make amazing airguns. Thanks
Had the Feinwerkbau recoil management pistol. It was a song. Sold it as I needed money. Too bad
They are amazing. Maybe you can get another one
At 4:08 isn't that the fwb model 80? I only ask because the model 65 has a completely different trigger blade.
Hi, It’s actually a FWB90 as explained at 5:00. It was the first production airgun with an electronic trigger and I used this as an example of the sledge system as I don’t have a 65. Thanks, Matt
@@dkjngl1 thanks matt. I must of missed that bit. Very interesting channel by the way.cheers.
Thanks, glad you find the channel of interest. I’m in the process of finishing off some nice new videos so watch this space. Cheers
490fps? That's 5'4 Joules, right?
Didn't seem like an effort to cock, at all
I know it is an unfair comparison but a Benjamin multipump takes 8 heavy strokes to get to 8'6J...
Just wow, Feinwerkbau...
Hi.
Yes…490fps with 8.2gr Bisley Practice 4.5mm pellets is 4.37ftlbs or 5.9joules. The rifle version the FWB 150 or 300 series does 8.6J.
I love Feinwerkbau, I think they are the perfect mix of product design and firearms design. Such great guns. Thanks
@@dkjngl1 thanks to you for such a quick and rich answer.
I am in no way able to collect such beauties, and now that you talk about +8Joules, I have envy because my Crosman 1322 just reaches that with 10 hard pumps and a lot less precision.
If only they had done a floating piston valve instead of a hammer and valve mechanism...
my pellets are getting stuck any ideas on my model 10
Sounds like either breech seal is not sealing properly, or more likely piston seals have perished, service guide here:
anotherairgunblog.blogspot.com/2008/10/resealing-diana-10-part-1.html
@@dkjngl1 is there a good gun Smith that takes these beauty in for that kind of work
Where are you based?
@@dkjngl1 kansas united states
@@3rdcoastpesca Sorry I'm based in the UK, maybe contact Pyramid Air in Ohio.
Como desarmar pistola de aire Diana modelo 10
Hola, igual que el rifle 66, asegúrate de marcar los dientes del diente antes de desmontar.
Je possede le fein modele 80 dommage que la video ne soit pas en francais salutation tres bonne video
Merci. J'ai essayé de faire cette vidéo pour que même si quelqu'un ne comprend pas la voix off, les visuels racontent une histoire. Je suis content que cela t'aie plu.
Cried with all those dry fires 0😭😭
Don't cry....I only did it for this video...The Diana is behind glass now, safe and sound.
كلام جيد امام عادل اشراح
Stop trying to talk with such a soothing voice
😊
the sound is poor compared to your other videos
Ha, I agree. It’s the first long form video I did, I think I did the voiceover on my iPhone headphones (!) since then I got a decent microphone. I’m still happy with the content though, and I’m not as good a one handed shot anymore after a shoulder injury. Cheers, Matt
in england only criminals and police can own guns. 😂😂