Understanding Heat Pumps | Future House | Ask This Old House
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- Опубліковано 4 жов 2024
- In this video, Ask This Old House building technology professional Ross Tretheway explains everything you need to know about heat pumps
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How Heat Pumps Work
Heat pumps work by finding and moving heat in and out of a building. A heat pump will take heat from within the home during the summer and let it dissipate outside, allowing the air conditioning system to work more efficiently. In the winter, a heat pump can scavenge heat from the outdoors (even in temperatures as low as zero degrees) and pump it into the home for comfort. The only requirement? Enough electricity to run the compressors.
Different Types of Heat Pumps
Heat pumps are becoming more and more advanced, but there are four basic types: water to water, water to air, air to air, and air to water.
Water to Water
This type of heat pump requires geothermal drilling, which means drilling into the earth to tap into its heat. The water travels below the surface, comes back up, and travels through a heat exchanger. In the heat exchanger, the source water heats the load water. The load side water then travels through the heating system just as it would a force hot water system.
Water to Air
Water to air systems require geothermal drilling to source the heat in the earth's surface. Then, the hot water runs through a coil in a duct. When air blows across that coil, it heats up, just as it would with a furnace.
Air to Air
In an air to air system, the heat pump sources heat from the air on the load side, which is then transferred to a refrigerant. This refrigerant then travels through a coil inside the ductwork, where load side air blows across it, similar to a furnace. These are the most common heat pumps.
Air to Water
An air to water system sources heat from the air on the source side and transfers it to a refrigerant. This refrigerant then cycles through a heat exchanger where it can heat the load side water to be pumped through the house.
Once in the house, this water can serve several purposes. It can be pumped to a zone manifold for hydronic heat, cycled through a heat exchanger for domestic hot water, or even pumped through a coil to supply a ducted system. In the summer, this system can remove heat from the home, cool the refrigerant, and supply the home with cooling.
There are a ton of advantages to this system over the others. First, no drilling is required. Second, you get the efficiency of hydronics. In some cases, homeowners relying on older heating systems can expect to save thousands of dollars each year on heating costs, as well.
Where to find it?
Ross explored four different types of heat pump systems: water-to-air, water-to-water, air-to-air, and air-to-water. These heat pumps can usually be sourced through a local HVAC technician or sales representative.
The air-to-water heat pump that Ross saw being installed in upstate New York was an Advantage Air-to-Water Heat Pump manufactured by Enertech [enertechusa.co...].
Expert assistance with this segment was provided by The Radiant Store [www.theradiant...], Air & Water Source Group, LLC [www.air-waters...], B&D Manufacturing, Inc. [www.bdmfginc.c...], Taco Comfort Solutions [www.tacocomfor...], Axiom Industries Limited [axiomind.com/], and Caleffi North America, Inc. [www.caleffi.co...].
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Understanding Heat Pumps | Future House | Ask This Old House
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I've watched 100's of episodes of TOH and had no clue Russ was Richard's kid :o
I only watch their UA-cam clips. They've mentioned it a couple times. His presentations are really well done. A natural Infront of the camera
@@busterhimself thanks Bobby!
I got to know it today.
Great job explaining heat pumps I was wondering what delta t was and you answered it in 30 seconds
That air-to-water system looks amazing. The vendor/installer mentioned that the homeowner (in this case) would be saving ~$2K/yr in costs. I would like to know roughly what the homeowner costs were (& therefore, the payback period) and if/how could solar hot water panels could be tied in to further reduce costs. I am aware of at least one hot water tank provider/producer that has a "dual-fuel" source hot water tank. Regardless, the air-to-water looks like a great way ahead.
The duel heater is usually an electric resistant element to compensate/replace the heat-pump if it malfunctions or if you need hotter water than 120f. This would work only for the domestic hot water though.
I could be mistaken, but I believe solar hot water panels are actually less efficient at creating heat than electrical solar panels since there are no pumping losses, and in the case of powering a heat pump water heater, the efficiency could theoretically be over 100%.
@@hardwarecompugeek Really depends on multiple factors. Currently most Solar PV will go from DC to AC then back to DC which each phase change as a bit of a loss, along with PV only able to . You are right about not needing to pump, but pumps themselves are very efficient too and depending on where the solar hot water panels are (2 storey building vs 1 storey) it would vary quite a bit.
I still see a key piece in term of thermal storage in general. In many cases until the price of batteries comes down more - having a large thermal mass in the home (could be an extra water tank) to provide residual heat is a better strategy than trying to rely on oversized batteries.
Save $2k a year and will only take 30 years to pay that system off, but with all those electronics it will only last 10 years..
This system probably costs upwards of 20k just for the parts. If they don't sell to the public then it becomes 40k++ easy with the installation. It probably qualifies for the 26% heat pump tax credits but installers usually mark up their prices to dip into that.
Awesome! Not sure it fits my situation, but I have learned a ton. Thanks.
What an amazing technology. Thanks for the video!
great video, would love a more updated one with comparisons of multiple heat pump systems.
That air to water system is sweet, I'd like to know more about it,for a future project, thanks
Great presentation really informative
As a licensed HVAC contractor, I always compare cost benefits and ROI on every system we sell. The biggest benefit of these systems is space savings. Their Achilles heel is that WHEN, not IF, they break, you lose all 3 systems at once. Cold shower, no heat, etc on Saturday morning in January...... A far more economical solution is separates, with redundancy. A heat pump water heater with electric backup is better. A Carrier/Bryant 2 stage air to air heat pump for heating and cooling is more efficient and dependable than the system shown in the video. The total cost is less for separates due to the economy of scale in production. Service is never an issue since the separate units use industry standard components that 90+% of the time I have on my service trucks as standard stock parts because over 90% of the HVAC units use these same parts.
TOH has a history of showcasing new tech that never survives to grow into old tech. Been watching the show since the 70's and seen many many of these unicorns come and go.
Is Daikin a good brand too for electric heat pump?
@@henryhe2107 No, cheap junk. Get Trane, Carrier, Rheem
@@henryhe2107 I don't like them. Poor efficiency, despite the AHRI rating, frequent problems with coil leaks. Last month a customer had to wait 3 weeks for a replacement coil due to the volume of warranty claims.
@@zack9912000 Lennox?
@@briangc1972 I just bought an old house in PA that has oil heating, it’s in bad shape so I want to have central air. One company quoted $35000 for Daikin product with a split system, one from the attic one from the basement.
Think that NY heat exchanger needs to be a lot higher. There are those years where it can get deep.
I would need a second house for all this equipment.
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with the wall mount, I really don't see how it's taking up any additional interior space?
@@jonathanburr9798 And all that stuff in the basement? It wouldn't fit in my spare bedroom. I don't have a basement.
The only person who will buy that house is another mechanical engineer 😂. Way too complicated for most people to understand.
In the air-to-water system shown, during summer months when heat is removed from the house to cool the living space, is that heat directly transferred to the domestic hot water, or instead is the heat directly transferred to the outdoor air, and then when the system needs to heat dhw the does the system then pause from cooling the house to heating dhw?
One thing I noticed is that the air to water heat pump requires a considerable amount of space. Our house (in upstate New York) does not have a basement, just a 6x6 room with high efficiency gas furnace, tankless hot water heater and an all in one clothes washer with heat pump dryer. I found the reference to how it saves space puzzling as it looked like it would require all of my 6x6 room leaving no place for cloth washer/dryer or other storage we now have in that small room. Did I miss something?
I'm in upstate NY; better raise that heat pump up higher than that!
They said the installation is in Poestenkill which might see a few instances of a foot+ per year, but I'm sure the homeowner could clear around it in that case. The installer John is actually from an area that sees significant lake effect snow, so I'm sure he knows what he's doing.
wow so knowledgeable, love you guys
Definitely important to know how newest water pump technology the older ones will split within 10-15 years.
1st time seeing this guy & as soon as i saw him, i knew who his dad was. Lol
1. Condenser stays outside 12 months and for years, no research yet done, how much efficiency will declined due to dirty condenser. 2. To improve efficiency back to new, how frequent cleaning is required ?
3. Is there any specific method to clean the coil to improve efficiency back to new?
4. How much efficiency will decline due to extreme cold, is there data available on that how much money will be lost due to this?
5. Instead of deep geothermal loop, is there possible to have 2.5meter deep loop which can offer benefit to heat pump saving energy?
I just put a air to air heat pump (Bosch) in at my beach house on eastern Long Island. We don't really use the house in the winter, but like having heat for the late fall and early spring.
I was surprised when the pump was able to keep the house warm when it was 28 degrees out.
Who installed it? Was it Mikey pipes?
I hope that you got the special salt water coating on the coils. It is optional, but very much required for applications within a mile of the ocean.
@@briangc1972 I second this. Parents have a winter place in FL close to salt water. I'm amazed how many of the heat pumps there still work with the damage from the salt in the air. It eats the coils like crazy.
@@jblyon2 more crazy cost. Should be just fitted right? Not an option...
It would be interesting to know how much maintenance is required on a system like this and I would have liked to know what the homeowner paid to have this heat pump system installed.
I would install it if i could get my hands on it. Around my parts homes are older and most are on their second HVAC system which is reaching its end of life. Number of people in last few years who had the old style system installed still paid over 15K for forced air heating and cooling. paying 25-35k and paying for itself in 10-15years would be really nice. I would expect less system stress from heating and cooling components with a flame. 4 years ago newer furnace needed heat exchanger replaced at my residence. Recently coworker had a heat exchanger crack and spew CO into the house on end of life unit. I would expect this system not to experience such heat fatigue with less dangers.
Yeah, I bet you are right about this. In general, an electrical machine that fails is going to fail "safer" than a combustion machine. And there's less thermal expansion/contraction stress as you said. (Heat pumps famously deliver air to your house that's not as hot as a natural gas or propane furnace, which some people find more comfortable and others find irritating for some reason.) I think we get a little tied up with payback-time or return-on-investment. Recent events suggest there are going to be some really unpredictable swings in the price of both electricity and fossil fuels in the future. But I know where my electricity is made and I also know what to buy to make some of my own! So I'm going to opt to electrify a lot of things in my house. Induction stoves are WAY better than anticipated!
Nice to see the US finally catching up to the 21 century.
All these systems, solar, geo thermal, etc sound really good at saving the homeowner(s) on energy costs. But what they never tell you is how expensive these types of systems cost and how it will take a LONG period of time before the homeowner(s) get to the point of breaking even. Trust me, I've been there done that.
That being said, that's no reason to completely forgo them. You shouldn't rent until you save up $250,000 to buy a house, you buy the house with a loan knowing that it's an investment.
What's the breakeven point on the initial install? That seems like a bad-faith comparison. The Total Cost of Ownership will be lower comparing apples to apples, and fossil fuel costs are only going to rise.
@@JacobLeemovingfwd Natural gas costs would need to rise a lot to make a heat pump financially attractive in New England. Where I live some of the units are heated with forced air natural gas, others with forced air heat pumps (new, less than 3 years old). My natural gas bill is $65-85/month depending on how cold a winter month is with electric running about $95-105. The heat pump units have electric bills in the $350-450 range. Electricity is very expensive here and even the new systems still regularly need the emergency electric resistance heat on cold days.
I am sure all the builders have a spare 50k under there beds not us.
@@JacobLeemovingfwd You never break even on these systems the cost of these system to install and repair can pay for 5 traditional proven systems. The same bs was argued during the 70s. Fossils fuels will be here another 200 years easy. Government bs is what causing them to rise
What i hate is when the high cost is always seen as "its not worth it". Heat pumps are going to need to be a thing because no matter how efficient gas is - its on a limited timescale not just climate wise, but it is literally a limited resource, maybe 50 years, sure but ill be alive in 50 years!
You are mistaken about natural gas, there is enough for centuries of use. The oil companies fought it back in the 60's and 70's because they knew it would destroy their future. Had the Alaskan Pipeline been built for natural gas and oil as originally intended instead of just oil, the Middle East would be financially ruined (think of all the wars and terrorism that would not have happened), the Exxon Valdez incident would never have occurred, we would be driving natural gas powered cars and our city's pollution would be a fraction of what it is today. Big oil and dirty politicians are to blame.
Natural gas furnaces use far less grid power than heat pumps. San Antonio gets it electricity mostly from coal-fired plants. Almost all new residential construction are all electric, with heat pumps instead of gas furnaces. Grid failure in 2021 may have been due to that extra load
@@jamesnoggle2661 Not just furnaces, but also water heaters. The second largest consumer of electricity in a home is the water heater. A/C and electric heat are the largest users. Most homes save over $400 per year using gas for heating and for hot water instead of electric.
@@briangc1972 Yup. I'm sure you know, gas water heaters keep sediment in suspension (heat source below) and flowing out out to the hot water lines, while the electric elements literally drive the sediment to the bottom of the tank. I've replaced elements, the lower one usually is buried in inches of white flake scale and burns out. I would never buy an all-electric house.
Brian g c and James noggle, care to disclose your financial interests in fossil fuel or conventional systems? Doesn’t matter if it’s 100 years or 1000 years. Those fossils are going to stay in the ground. Simple facts are that renewables are more cost effective and all the technology to make it available everywhere, all the time, at better prices are falling into place. Even if there was no concern for climate change these new techs will win on economics, game over for fossil fuels.
i live in virginia lowlands, near DC, and my heat pump is 20 years old. i use A/C in the summer and use wood almost exclusively in the winter, 6 cords. I might run heat a total of 3 days. my question is how much longer will my heat pump last if it's getting almost no wear from heating? is there a way of an inspection to determine longevity?
That is cool!
I like the new guy
Im a plumber and do heat pump. This system is amazing but the cost is ridiculous. Nothing to compare with a mini split
Was going to say, how does this compare to a mini-split + hybrid (heat pump) water heater as separate entities.
@@Mike__B your looking at at least 16k in equipment alone plus what ever average labor rates are in your area for a super pro plumber,/HVAC contractor
This system is called enertech they have awesome stuff (like boiler backup) etc but cost a fortune
@@Cfish613 Seems like it after reading a few of the comments. Also maybe it's just me, but it seems like it's considerably more complicated then a separate mini-split & hybrid water heater which I would think it should be the exact opposite.
But I guess this doesn't suck the heat out of your house like a hybrid WH, and can continue to use an existing setup for the furnace (with some modifications).
@@Mike__B this sure is a hell of a lot more complicated than a mini split/ water heater setup with no real backup on the wh side there is a lot of moving parts and a lot to go wrong, in my opinion as an HVAC technician the best system you can get is a 80% furnace on a coil with a 16 seer condenser with out an inverter it's mid range as far as price, and if sized probably relatively comfortable when coupled with a steam injection humidifier and it's almost a set it and forget it system (besides filters)
@@Mike__B as far as an explanation why this is more complicated is because this has a hydronic loop in it pump circulators and all that goes along with a boiler on top of that it also has a refrigeration side and all that goes along with your regular AC and everything has to work together to make it work if any one of these components are out of whack you won't have heat and hot water whereas an electric heat pump how water heater always has resistance backup you know your toaster doesn't die everyday but most people call an HVAC technician once every 3 years mini splits are around since the '70s and they are pretty tried and true at this point but still quirky at least when compared to a furnace
So this works on baseboard hot water heat? We have a 1950’s ranch with cast iron baseboard heats and they provide the best kind of heat. Quiet, even, no draft heat. I can’t imagine ripping them out and putting in ductwork. I would like a plug and play type system for my existing hot water heat when the time comes to cut the gas line.
This looks cool. How much does this cost roughly?
Seems way complicated. I wonder how long it would take to pay for itself.
Fyi this system is at least $30k plus. At 2k/yr as stated to heat with a traditional system thats 15yr to break EVEN. Even if it was $20k (which its not) thats 10yr break even point. Just in time for the newer system to be out of warranty. 5-8k for a new traditional air conditioner and propane heat with 10year warranty. You can buy a lot of propane for 20k extra you saved. Traditional propane systems are still superior cost wise period. If you can install this system for 10k email me ill be a buyer. Thats what they would have to cost to actually save you money. Again if anyone can install this system for 10k seriously get ahold of me. Otherwise ill stick to propane.
Whoa whoa whoa, a TOH episode that mentions prices? I thought that was forbidden...
So is this basically a small chiller with a heat pump
i try these heater plate that claim 4cent per hour but ended up getting 14 panel and 1200 in cost for winter per month. NY state have to phase out home heating oil not sure if its 2030 or 2035. Anyways, i have an old house under a lot of tress. Not sure about getting solar panels yet, need to get this air to water system. And since my house is built in 1924. Might be better to tear down the structure and redesign it. Gods willing, might just do that. So for now have to deal with the high price home heating oil.
Can your air to water heat pump be used on a dryer he says the high cost of a heat pump dryer
Can you add a self running motor generator unit to you air to water heat pump the runs continuously If you lose electricity from a weather event and are there rebates
Clothes dryers are very cheap but a heat pump clothes dryer is expensive could you plum in for a new heat pump dryer
Has the cost per kWh doubled like in New England?
That guy doing the wiring looked dangerous!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
When in cooling mode (summer time), does the air-to-water system still provide hot water? How?
When not in cooling mode reverse flow and heat the domestic hot water. Simple.
Yes, the water heater is prioritized. It stops cooling and switches flow for the few mins to heat the water. Then switches back to cooling. Usually with out you knowing. Boilers do something like that when they provide domestic hot water. They often prioritize the water heater.
@@--harry_ That switching will greatly reduce the efficiency of the system. Unfortunately, the energy ratings of these systems do not reflect that aspect. They only test each function alone which is not has the system works in real life. Trying to switch from hot water to A/C and back is a major design flaw.
@@briangc1972 they do that has nothing to do with it's efficiency
The problem I’m having with my new mini-split quad zone heat pump is having to manually change it over from heat to cool in our weather which has been 80 degrees one day, and 35 degrees a few days later. In the summer, it’s fine, but in what passes for winter in south Texas is another matter.
Isn't it just one click on the remote ?
Mine has an auto setting where it can switch between heating and cooling after a certain temperature difference. But I've never tried it.
I installed a quad Mitsubishi and the problem has been a head unit going into standby mode when there was a disagreement between head units as to which mode the condenser should be in. Just sits there with a blinking light. Putting the head units into auto mode seems to help. It’s the coldest day of the year this morning. 10° Fahrenheit, and my bedroom is still warm, but it’s been doing a lot of defrosting and I proactively turned on the oil heat in the kid’s bedrooms.
@@generallyhelpfulsoftware646 by mem one of them should be set to "master". that dictates what mode they all run in. not sure on the remotes but its easy to do with the wall controllers. also keep in mind multi output systems can run poorly. they are more suited to similar sized heads in similar climate spaces. ie you want all heads running at once. running a small head on its own makes it run badly (compressor massively oversized for the head).
@@tweake7175 they are generally all working at once although my son likes his room hotter than my daughter. I’m not finding anything about a master mode via Google.
Someone who is heating with expensive propane is kind of the best case scenario to have a heat pump installed, it'll be an obvious slam dunk over buying propane or oil. But most of the country is heating their house using natural gas, which is super cheap compared to electricity. With electric vs gas rates being what they are, usually heat pumps have similar operating costs to natural gas furnaces maybe a little bit cheaper when its above 40-45 degrees outside and the heat pump is at its most efficient.
I heat my house all year on around 400gal of propane. That's around $1000yr. This system probably cost 30k . So spend 5-8k on a traditional propane system vs 30+ on this. Thats 20plus years to break even...just in thime to replace the 30k system for another one. I dont think so.
KISS !
Nice system!
Looks like an engineer designed it!😅😂😂🤣👍🏻
No discussion about the cost of the system. If it saves $2000 per year will it take ten years to pay for the hardware and installation?
Want to see a hybrid setup. Heat pump runs when it can then when needed a natural gas furnace takes over. I live in -40 climate
Many air-to-air heat heat pumps have this capability (having a gas furnace as backup/assist). So you could replace your A/C unit with it and still have your existing gas furnace (or a new one) as a backup for really cold days when it may struggle. I watched an hour long UA-cam video from Enertech (sorry, don't have the link) that introduces this "Advantage" system to distributors, and in the tech section, they mention that it can interface with a backup *boiler* to assist, so I wonder if it could also interface with a gas furnace. I'm waiting to hear from them. The age of my (gas, tanked) water heater is in the danger zone, and I need to go to a solution that removes the chimney (to make room for solar panels), so it's either a high efficiency condensing tankless model, a heat pump model, or maybe one of these air-to-water all-in-one systems (since my A/C and (high efficiency condensing gas) furnace are both 15 years old). I'm going solar, which is why I'm considering going to (electric powered) heat pump. I'm trying to be a good ecological citizen as well, as it's not *all* about economics. :)
Will the existing units still exist in the future?
I have a year round non freezing creek. Can I make this my heat source? Seems awfully simple compared to miles of pipe.
That's not an off-the shelf system but it sure seems possible. If fish are spawning in the downstream though, you don't want to cook their eggs. Impact depends on the heat load of the house relative to the flow of the stream.
Why use water instead of refrigerant?
The system looks great, but they never actually give you any numbers with these systems. How cold can it be outside before supplemental heating is required. I’ve had mini splits and they do genuinely produce heat down to about -5f, but you really had to use the auxiliary heating system starting at about 20f. Just because it’s producing a warmth. Does not mean it is enough to pull a house out of the deep freeze. For example… In northern Wisconsin as I’m typing. It is currently -30f actual air temperature. Having just moved here from a life born and raised next door in Minnesota. That’s not even bad. I’ve lived through much colder than this…
My question is what are the numbers? At what temperature does it stop working?
What is the actual air temp it’s capable of producing?
Can it heat a house that may have froze from a power outage in subzero temps…?
It really depends on the system, Each system has different capacities. If there is air there is heat. What matters is how well the system can transfer that heat energy. One could potenntially extract heat from -100c air if the system was designed for it.
Brandon: All your answers (except for the last question) are in this video: ua-cam.com/video/YH6pRiITHA8/v-deo.html
They don't get into the numbers until somewhere around 25:00.
It generates usable heat down to -17 degrees Fahrenheit.
Trust me. As a HVAC technition, we are always winter busy. In fact the colder out it gets we are running off our feet. Why? because HVAC equipment breaks. Not just old stuff, but, new stuff and unfortunately, we find the newer the manufactured equipment the lesser quality products inside them.Plastic parts, thinner gauge steel ,copper and parts made by cheap labour overseas. I still service customers old 1960's atmospheric vented gas furnaces, run test on them yearly. Burn like they did brand new. Today we are constantly out fixing the newest highest efficient products. The day you do a repair out of warranty on any of these products, you can kiss your presently energy savings good-bye. Im saying energy efficiency is good and you should buy it because its what you want to do. And you have lots of money to satisfy your need for the latest and greatest. But buying it for ROI is stuff of unicorns and fairy dust. Do yourself a favour, talk to your HVAC technicians who do the repairs and emergency calls. They see it and know the reality. Don't talk to the HVAC owner, he/she is in the business of selling you things.
The newer, less efficient products are the same way so you might as well go for more efficient if you have to buy a new system.
Heat pumps aren't all that much of a new thing. All refrigerators, freezers, and air conditioners are heat pumps. There were heat pumps (that cooled and heated) in the 1950s and 1960s, including window units.
Technically, yes. But nowadays, the term "heat pump" is commonly used to describe a unit that can *reverse* the direction of its transfer; so it can both heat and cool a residence.
With the air to water system how do you get domestic hot water in the summer when the heat pump is in cooling mode?
It has control lines and would switch back and forth - pump cool water to air handler, then switch to heating, stop the airhandle and water to there and run the hot water to the tank. Heat Pumps don't get a high enough heat most of the time to be called hot water - so it needs a tank to add the extra heat there to get it to hot water temperature.
intersting system wanna have this in china
What is the heat output in kw for the last air to water heat pump system? Last time I check, the system that I need all requires 480v three phase electricity, which is not available to residential address. There are some 220v single phase system, but the heat output is not enough for me. For 2000 sqft, you need at least 20kw heat output. All the system is from China. I didn't find any exception. Some local distributors use their own private label.
You are more informed than most. Great points, especially the private label aspect. Warranty parts are alway a problem with these "pink unicorn" systems. BTW, I've been a licensed HVAC contractor for 22 years. Seen a lot of fly by night distributors leave the contractors and consumers high and dry waiting (6 months or more) for parts to repair these "solutions" IF they are even available.
See this video: ua-cam.com/video/YH6pRiITHA8/v-deo.html
They talk about sourcing components. IIRC, the control electronics are from Europe (because they've been using this technology for a number of years). I think the compressor comes from Japan. They said they sourced as much as they could in the US. It is manufactured in the U.S. Not once did they mention anything from China (which is not to say there is *nothing* sourced from China, but one would assume no *major* components).
With enough electricity which we get buy how mostly?Don't get me wrong this could be very productive in the future when we get the technology to produce enough low cost electricity.
Oh man, this was a good video except for one minor detail. At the end you mention renewable energy with wind. Leave wind out, it's too expensive, makes very little energy and the ROI is north of 100 years, way north.
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That's a big ol' heat pump sitting pretty close to a laundry vent...that system is cool, but man it's pricey and requires a lot cubic space
Instead of buying a heat pump clothes dryer could just system work if there’s clothes dryer with designed
With all these systems, I still wonder on the electricity required to run this. I have neighbors who installed #geothermal and got great savings vs propane BUT no one warned them that they would have $500-$600 PER MONTH in electricity, I pay $1500 in propane for the entire year and $125 in power per month. These new systems are still too expensive
Was Ben back there actually doing something, or was he just trying to look busy as the two of them talked? 😂
So, what’s the COP on these units?
COP fluctuates with outdoor temperature and delivered water temp. But at 17 F outdoors it has a COP = 3.4
@@rosstret - so, the next question becomes, at what point is it more cost efficient to heat with gas as opposed to using the heat pump? Because at low enough temperatures, before the heat pump becomes totally unusable, it still crosses a line where it’s more cost effective to use gas than electric.
@@shubinternet it depends on the utility prices (electric, nat gas, propane, oil) and the efficiency of each system. But generally speaking a COP > 3 for electric heat pumps will be economically superior to any fossil fuel system at todays prices….in this case the heat pump will cost less than 1/3 what the propane system cost to operate.
For a more detailed answer, see this YT video from Enertech: ua-cam.com/video/YH6pRiITHA8/v-deo.html
All the COP numbers for all outside ambient temps and load side temps (lower for radiant heating, higher for forced air coil, even higher for radiative or water heater).
Air to Water will give you : Radiant floor, wall, ceiling, radiators, pool heating, hydronic mini-split, DOMESTIC hot water and AC. CAN'T BEAT THAT. This technology is finally catching intrest. I work in NY and see many mini-split units in houses but in winter people don't turn them ON. It's not comfortable. It's very dry and in defrost they blow cold air. More and more people ask about Radiant heat and I believe this trend will continue...
Sorry could you talk a bit more why people don't use the heating system. You said I blows cold air. I thought it was supposed to heat the air?
@@suzihawkins4352 in defrost mode it will blow cold air into the room.
When it breaks, “starts sweating intensely”.
People in UK.
"What kind of magic is this ?"
It's gonna be a balmy 9° in Rhode Island tomorrow.
I want to work on getting off of heating oil and on to heat pumps but I don't think the technology is there yet.
What so you think the weaknesses are?
@@b_uppy 9" of snow covering the panels! Look at Texas last winter. Both solar and wind froze up last winter! They should of made another video on wind, solar, and batteries vs. climate zones.🤔
@@b_uppy I've read that sub freezing pumps are hit and miss dependability wise. That's not something I'm willing to miss on in the winter. I can swelter through the summer and get by but in the winter time in New England no heat can be a death sentence.
Just gotta get one rated for your climate (and probably would be wise to think about what your local climate will be like in 15-20 years). Mitsubishi Hyper Heat models come up a lot in the colder climate discussions.
You could also look at geothermal heat pumps too, that would reduce your dependence on the temperatures outside.
Benefits to getting off gas and oil would be no more chance for leaks/ground contamination, no longer having to worry about CO from your heating system (though your dryer and stove would still be a concern if they're gas too). And of course convenience! You wouldn't have to have to heating oil delivered to your place.
However you'd still be vulnerable to power outages, so maybe tap into your natural gas supply if applicable for a backup generator.
@@Phoxtane
Natural gas also failed in Texas...
I feel like any rich person should be required to live at net zero
Not really seeing the advantage over a refrigerant system other than the domestic hot water. Even that isn’t a big deal since you can just get a separate heat pump water heater.
Seems like a retro fit into a house that used a boiler/ radiator system is really the need for this.
Yes, people who have a boiler for heat and duct forced air for ac. Perfect for that.
Read the title as”This Old Ask House”.
Why can’t they just say how much it cost for the system?
Too many variables. They did say it costs a lot more.
Heat pumps are so bloody massive. My house is tiny wtf. How noisey is it too??? Not mentioned I bet.
See this video: ua-cam.com/video/YH6pRiITHA8/v-deo.html
Your answer is 24:47 in.
Unless you get electricity for really cheap rates, per BTU, heating with electricity is far more expensive than with natural gas.
That is true today, but Gas and Oil prices are going up, and new gas hook--ups are being banned in both California, New York and soon Massachusetts. Renewable energy is already less expensive to the producers and consumers than conventional Coal and Gas electricity production. Electricity can decrease in price, which would make heat pumps more viable.
@@ArvonnT It costs nearly 3x as much to power a heat pump in Massachusetts than to heat with natural gas. Prices have to raise a LOT for a heat pump to be economical in this area. Renewable electricity is also much more expensive than natural gas so the electric rates are only going to increase as well, regardless of how much is gas and how much is renewable. There's a line item on every bill for subsidizing renewable energy. (Note: don't take this as me being against renewable energy, I'm all for it over fossil fuels, just presenting the economic reality.)
@@jblyon2 Not accurate anymore. The cost of solar and wind has dropped dramatically. Coal, on the other hand, has increased.
@@ArvonnT You really think electric companies will reduce their prices? 🤣
6:09 man needs some antiperspirant
😂 lol I missed it the first time
Only rich people can afford this😢
The most important question is how many years is the break even point. If it is less than 7 years then it would be a smart investment. If it's over 10 years then it would be good for the planet but likely a poor investment. Lastly, if the owner moves before reaching the break even point them the current owner effectively paid for the next owner's system.
Just include the cost in the selling price. It is an investment.
When it comes to reduction of expenses, you might want to take into account the 4% rule (the idea that you can retire once your investments reach 25× your yearly expenses.) By that measure, anything less than a 25:1 cost vs savings ratio helps you retire faster. So if I spent $9000 self installing an air source heat pump and save $1000 a year by your measure, this may be a mediocre investment, but from a 4% rule perspective, it’s as good as having another $25,000 in my investment account.
And in my case, it’s more like $1500, and the price of oil is just going to go up and up. (This would be a much different calculation if natural gas was available in my neighborhood.)
@@kokovox - your comment is exactly how successful real estate investors think. The only issue is that real estate investors find that some investments return less then they spend. For instance buying a house and spending $7k to replace the furnace and the house is then worth $3k more. This is the opposite of what investors want. This is why people that plan to sell their house don't put solar panels just before selling. They would pay $20k for the solar system and be able to sell their house for an extra $10k, effectively losing $10k. I agree that it can be an investment for the original owner if they stayed long enough.
@@generallyhelpfulsoftware646 - you sound like a math nerd (a good thing BTW). I pretty much agree with everything you say. The only thing I can add is that I generally use 7% return as the lowest, mostly because over long periods of time the stock market has returned 10-12%. Of course as one gets closer to retirement then that person will invest in safer, and therefore lower returning investments. The 4% rule is highly conservative because it assumes you are taking money out of your pot and that pot must last until you die because you will never add more money to it. Another way to think of this is if the Heat Pump system cost $50k and broke even in 20 years, then that's the same an an investment earning 3.6% return (this depends strongly on how fast energy costs increase). If one instead put $50k in stocks and earned 7% over 20 years you would have $201,936. In other words it's mathematically better to have paid more for energy but used the $50k to end up with a higher net worth at the end of 20 years. Regardless, not every dollar needs to be maximized in life and being able to have free energy in retirement gives peace of mind, which makes retirement that much less stressful. Just be certain to still be in the same house after 20 years to get the benefit.
Not sure about being quiet…every one I’ve seen as really noisy to annoy all the neighbours
Looks like the payback of the investment is 5 Years or more
I'll stick with my wood stove
Too complicated I would not want it
Not only that. I'm not sold on the one solution to solve all problems approach. If the unit goes down I lose heating/cooling AND hot water.
Its hard to take anything Richard says seriously cus he looks like the type of guy who smells his toilet paper after he wipes and keeps ketchup packets in his pockets.
No thanks I love my oil in the winter and water tank in the summer