Does God Exist? | Jay Dyer vs. Apostate Prophet
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Jay Dyer, an Orthodox Christian, and Apostate Prophet, an atheist, are having a friendly discussion about the existence of God.
You can find Jay Dyer's channel here: / jaydyer
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As an ex-muslim, who was an atheist for many years and who recently converted to Christianity, this is a breath of fresh air and how a debate should be. Muhammed Hijab could learn some valuable lessons here
@Robert Taylor They are free. The Son set them free so they are free indeed, you probably don't even know the forces you are subject to while they know exactly the Being who they gave their life to and disciple. You are a spiritual bastard and spiritual harlot- not even knowing the forces who use you and father you. You are in no position to shame anyone.
@Robert Taylor Saying things how they are isn't hate. If my words were just white noise, why are you responding? Where did I excercise bad manners, and what moral standard do you appeal to substantiate your use of the word "bad"? You brought the hatred by trying to shame and make a mockery of my sibling in Christ for finding their way, painting them as delusional when the likelihood that you have zero clue what you belong to is staggeringly high. Take a look at yourself before you try to judge others and don't be a narcissist trying to play victim after you initiate the attack.
@Robert Taylor And of course you edit out how you said "shame on you" in your first comment. In reality you can't erase your past mistakes so it's simply better to apologize.
Let me say I am glad you found salvation. I love my fellow brothers and sisters, hate the theocracy that they are stuck in. I witness to Muslims frequently and I gotta say it is stressful at times. I have never seen people ignore obvious facts and evidence like most do. I am in some Christian Muslim debate chats in whatsapp. Would you be interested in participating? Maybe share what it was that had you leave Islam and then eventually accept Christ as your savior? God bless you!!
Which Christ is your favorite -- one of the many American versions, including the KKK and Trumpian Christs; a couple of the Russian ones, including the main one that supports Putin; the Hitler supporting Christ; the Catholic Christ; the Orthodox Christ; and many more other Christs?
You see, the only thing you care about is that people claim to be Christian, anything beyond there makes no difference. Any Atheist can just say that they are Christian, and that would be enough to make the ignorant, shallow, empty, soulless God peddlers happy.
I didn't know Apostate Prophet before this video, but this is the first person Jay has debated that feels genuinely concerned with figuring out the truth and is not posturing from a position of intellectual superiority like many atheists I've seen (I am myself a former atheist turned Orthodox).
Thanks, AP! This was a good convo, and I'm looking forward to Part 2.
yeah you can tell these are genuine questions and feelings even many theists battle with from time to time.
+
Cyberskull, I'd say there was just a bit of wanting to win the argument from AP's side (both, being clear, but I think more on AP), but that might be expected. Awesome conversation, also coming from an Atheist converted (or wanting to convert) to Orthodoxy.
@@Sijilos You're right. I was trying to be charitable, but if you consider the atheist perspective, there is ultimately no avoiding some degree of intellectual pride. What else do you derive value from, other than your own achievements? "*I* came to the truth, so these ideas are *my* achievements," says the atheist. "The truth came to me," says the theist of a revealed religion, "I am not the source but only a messenger." Humble service, not personal pride, is the mark of such a view. But of course, pride tempts all of us ... wishing you well in your journey to Orthodoxy. Feel free to DM me if you're looking for some solidarity.
AP has sociel anxiety, and is still fresh in doing these types of interactions. Knowing AP I would be shocked if he converted to Theism. Even if he did it's still not a miracle. It would be "why he" converted that matters.
Atheist: "The world is flawed, so God shouldn't exist."
Christian: "I am flawed, so I shouldn't exist."
Christian: "I say I am flawed, but I don't actually believe it".
@@ezbody Because Christians actually say this, right? You just made this strawman up, mate ;)
@@panperl1212 There's a difference between the world before the fall and after the fall that man caused through his own free will, when tempted by Satan,
Because of that, God cannot be known through natural theology, that means you can't know God through observing this fallen world, but only through Divine Revelation, through Theoria.
Otherwise, if God could be known through natural theology, it would make sense to think that God is a psychopath, because why would he create a world of death, and of suffering.
@@tudormardare66 That's not the point I made, though
Faulty logic, the point was that god is too perfect to exist in this flawed world
Edit : to coexist outside with this flawed world *
Just notice how this christian guy speaks politely
If this was mohammad Hijab then he will shout, interrupt you, make fun of you, never allow you to speak etc.
If you watch his debates with other non islamophobic people you’ll see he’s not lol but that’s all you
@@mohammedmia7343 being an ex-muslim or someone critical of religion is not islamphobic, stop hiding behind that word. I have muslim and christian friends while being critical of their religions..
@@tonikeirouz7347 APuss is not a critical thinker. He’s a deliberate liar that has been refuted upon everything lol. You can search up his regulations. There are much better critical thinkers and people who disagree with Islam than APuss I have no problem with them. But good luck critiquing your Muslim friends on Islam with APuss’s garbage rhetorics. You could do much better
@@mohammedmia7343 I know there is better than him in critics, thing is, APuss is not debating with islamphobic people but with ex-muslims. and im just saying the fact u call people critical of islam or religion as "islamphobic" is wrong
@@mohammedmia7343
It is very common for the indoctrinated to project their own faults on others, while claiming all the good traits of others as their own. You are no exception.
I like this AP guy. As an Orthodox Christian of course I was rooting for Jay the whole time during this discussion, but the humility of AP is fantastic. New subscriber.
@Zhang Wei so’s your face. Roasted.
@Zhang Wei ya caught me.
Jay is not using verses in the bible to support his argument. Jay are using the 64 books of the bible? Does the Orthodox has additional books besides the 64
@@john318john there’s 66 books in the Protestant Bible, not 64. Plus, they’re having a discussion about the transcendental argument for God. Why would Jay HAVE to appeal only to scripture for that?
@Zhang Wei get out of here with that nonsense. This channel is run by a middle eastern man. Give me a break and stop being such a softy.
I'm a Christian, and I really like AP, he's a great guy, a genuine soul.
Ditto. So well mannerd and not a jerk. Wish all Atheists were as pleasent as him.
God uses even atheist for his glory
@@Justin-ShalaJCamen
Ap really is a likable dude and I only hope the best for him
Continue praying for him.. he seems genuine. I bet coming to understand that Islam is evil had to be devastating to him. So just continue to pray for him
Orthodoxy is the fullness of the Christian faith. I am so glad I became Orthodox. Everyone should become Orthodox
@@rebecca9937 Christ gave us a Church which He said the gates of hell would not prevail against. The Orthodox Church has existed continually since Pentecost. We are that Church and we haven't been beaten. The Bible is great (The Orthodox Church composed it, and Martin Luther removed some books in the 1500s) and so is fellowship, but the fullness of it all is found in Holy Orthodoxy. God bless
How is a Prophet who was fed by blood for nine months a God.
@@cocothecoconut2470 Explained to you in another reply. Christ is fully God and fully man, and lived His life, knowing the hour of his death and resurrection.
@@epg96 I believe the vast majority of Protestants are trying hard to be good Christians with the tools they have, although I think they are missing some important tools. I think many will be saved, and I think they do good missionary work. I pray that they return to Orthodoxy. When the Protestant reformers realized Catholicism was wrong, I wish they had better access to Orthodoxy. Orthodoxy never had the problems Catholicism had, and I believe many early Protestants would have become Orthodox if they knew about it.
@Daniel Charles Yes we baptize infants, and we highly venerate the Mary. We don't have a pope, but instead allow bishops to govern their territory and larger decisions are made by council (this was how it was done throughout Christianity in the first millennium). If you have any more questions just let me know. Catholics often find Orthodoxy to be very similar to Catholicism but interestingly Orthodox tend to see a lot more differences.
Man, I love the respect I am seeing between these two. This what I want to see more of.
I'm an ex Muslim athiest. I have to say, this was really enjoyable to watch and totally different to a discussion with a Muslim. Even the comments are civil compared to when Muslims are in the chat. Unlike the horrendous tactics people like Mohammed Hijab employed. Good job AP and Jay!
Brother why can't you understand Islam. I'm a Muslim and if you just read the Quraan you'll understand how we really are. Assalamuialaikum may you have a nice day.
@@cocothecoconut2470 I'm not sure you read my comment. I read the Quran multiple times and I'm a hafiz. The reason I left Islam is because I studied Islam and found out the truth, or rather, the lies in Islam. Have a nice day too friend
@Paki Taknolgi n Signs minishtr I read as a mumin, which resulted in me being a free thinking person😂
*Hear the Qur'an in Arabic and English*
If you are curious or want to learn the Qur'an but don't really like reading then you can learn the Qur'an by listening to it.
ua-cam.com/play/PLD119B7669B0A3CE6.html
If you like to read, you can download the Qur'an on the PlayStore.
Al-Baqarah 2 : 147
الْحَقُّ مِنْ رَبِّكَ ۖ فَلَا تَكُونَنَّ مِنَ الْمُمْتَرِينَ
The truth is from your Lord, so never be among the doubters.
*Are you calm in living life? Learn the Qur'an and convert to Islam.*
Al-Fajr 89 : 27-30
يَا أَيَّتُهَا النَّفْسُ الْمُطْمَئِنَّةُ
27. "O reassured soul!
ارْجِعِي إِلَىٰ رَبِّكِ رَاضِيَةً مَرْضِيَّةً
28. Return to your Lord, well-pleased and pleasing.
فَادْخُلِي فِي عِبَادِي
29. And enter among My servants,
وَادْخُلِي جَنَّتِي
30. And enter My Paradise."
*What a word scientist about the Qur'an*
ua-cam.com/video/FUUPYs0gElU/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Ac_3gaL0XaA/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/vt0_srn55aQ/v-deo.html
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ua-cam.com/video/vlSQZ37_GB4/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/yqYkCPhvgBo/v-deo.html
*Example of the verses of the Qur'an that matches modern science*
m.ua-cam.com/play/PLB2gAL9wifZQVghJLRTvakKYlxGe3uBF1.html
ua-cam.com/video/cy14tVjJTpk/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/Y9lk5ZcxIWc/v-deo.html
Hopefully useful and get guidance from Allah SWT God the universe, amien.
@Hussam Almahdwai watch this guy ua-cam.com/video/9Q7wcZQXXLM/v-deo.html
Hope Muhammad hijab will see this and learn how discussion should be. Not playing cat and mouse 🤣🤣
ME STRONG!!!!
lol. Muhammad (Handjob) hijab
@Meshari will he debate anyone who atacks islam politely? or he avoids debates in which he has to defend islam?
Teach your apologist scam shamoun to have a friendly discussion. Respect is given not earned.
No, I think you don’t understand Islam. Anyone who is not a Muslim is not worthy of respect. Specially who has rejected Islam and criticises it. In Islam it’s okay if they criticise you, your whole family your God, your idea. But you are not allowed to criticise IT . Only time they will be polite to you if they think your an easy catch and in order to pursue you to accept Islam the moment you stop acting like a sweet little dhimmi you refuse to submit they will attach you verbally they will attach you physically.
Jay is very articulate. I didn't know of him, thanks to AP for introducing him to me.
Yes true! He's just one fine articulate guy. By far AP is inept to stand the big guns. He should seek formal trainings to defend his worldview
Yea of course most focus of believers are the eloquence and argumentative training. They, believing or faking, know they have nothing going for them except chewing words and formulating ever more complicated logical fallacies to trick themselves and or others
Jay arguments have nothing new to the god delusion arguments and Christopher hitchens ideas
@@karemgh what Jay said that threw AP of the clip was that, AP can't dial up skepticism level to the max and expect to have a real answer to the questions he himself was positing. It doesn't make sense and defies logics. It's like saying I see the AP to be a blackman and until anyone convinces me otherwise, no other idea that predicates on his complexion wouldn't stand. It's impossible! AP is stuck with his presuppositions. And the funny part is he forces himself to call them paradoxical when the solution is as clear as day light
@@karemgh coming from a person who doesn't understand some axioms and fundamental laws of logic.
As Jim Rohn said, imagine a man who can't express himself. He's like a blind man. (or somewhat like that.)
AP: There is no objectivity.
also AP: "is", "isnt", "can not"
oh boy, facepalm.
If there is no objectivity, then even having a conversation is just matter in motion doing "stuff".
Don’t worry AP, I know Islam ruined you in the concept of God, but you will eventually come around. Christianity is the only true unique religion that exists. For Christians it isn’t about us, all other religions it is about the individual. Don’t let the negativity of Islam turn you away for good.
@Esben M Really? How so?
@Esben M I can provide you with tons evidence for God’s existence. Let’s take just one for now, Fibonacci Sequence. Often called the Golden Ratio. We see this mathematical sequence all though nature, In seashells, spiders webs, the way flowers bloom, even in the ratio aspect of many of the faces of the human race. In fact those who’s facial features conform to this ratio are often considered more appealing or attractive. This does nothing for survival, natural selection, absolutely no reason why it would “evolve” on its own. Yet it is there. A cosmic accident , us evolving by chance. This just wouldn’t happen.
@Esben M Debunked by who? It’s a fact. 🤣🤣 I suggest you do research in other places besides youtube. Any idiot with a camera can say or film anything.
Here, go learn something
www.mathsisfun.com/numbers/nature-golden-ratio-fibonacci.html
@Esben M I never called DNA the language of God. Interesting that you brought DNA up though, Did you know “the identical dna” that’s all shared amongst us “common descendants” they only look at the protein coding genes? Those makeup 1.5% of our total DNA. The other 98.5% was wrongly called junk DNA for decades, only until recently do they realize it isn’t, it’s now called intergenic regions, and unique amongst every species. Seems like were not so identical to monkeys after all. Interesting isn’t it?
@akbrs Richard Carrier is in the same class as Ehrman will say anything for money. Carrier is blatantly wrong on most of what he says here. Not only that, he isn't qualified on the source material. Seen it. Mostly lies. Sorry.
Despite areas where it could have been better, thank you to you both for your mutual respect. Can’t wait for P2!
I think once Jay gets up to speed in his islamic studies he will be a tour de force in his debating in that field as well...
He already is, his arguments flew over the head of Shabir Ally 😂
@@abelkjohn Thats True😂
@@abelkjohn nah he has a far way to go, even he admitted it, which is why when he basically used solely philosophy, sound reasoning, and only a handful of Islamic teachings in the shabir debate, it was so impressive
@@user-us9iw6rt7b I see your point, and as the old saying goes, there's more than one way to skin a cat.
Seraphim S hey I got randomly banned because I took too Long at the verification process, can I please get an unban from the discord? Thanks
I’ve been trying my hardest to contact all mods, yet they’re all not responding. Please do thanks
Jay's argument is an argument from the impossibility of the contrary. I've heard it called an "eliminative" argument. He is saying that we need to justify our belief the necessary transcendentals like time and space do exist and are conducive to knowledge and not illusion. He is saying that the Orthodox worldview at least has coherence and explanatory power while all others do not.
@x Florio what is ADS? i'm bad with abbreviation
@#ILoveAsianWomen that's your opinion
@@hrd708 absolute divine simplicity
Well it's true.. it's the only system that makes sense and allows God to enter time and space without divisions or parts. Ads doesn't allow God to enter time and space. So we really can't know anything about God cause nothing is comparable to God. Plus leads to eternal creation... participating in something created and not divine , real and God.
I was an atheist for many years, and I understand how many people here might feel, but after years, studying, there are many things we dont know yet, there is so much, its ignorant to think we can say there is no God, and the atheist worldview brought me the worst years of my life in how I personally felt, it was basically a life where I would just indulge in passions to escape the death that would come one day. After years of more learning and studying, Christianity has made so much sense to me now, as crazy as it may sound in the modern scientism world/culture we live in
@Bruce Wayne i think the bigger innovation is the Creator who made us.
@Assyrian Nestorian ur satan incarnate bro
It seems to me that you are operating with a misguided definition of atheism, probably to christian propaganda.
Atheism is simply not being convinced by all of the god claims.
Besides that you used the fallacious reasoning of “it makes me feel better” and that it soothes your fear of death.
You then conclude that after years of indoctrinating yourself you have become convinced.
The statement “there is no god” is irrelevant to atheism as this is a statement of knowledge or gnosis. Theism is simply the Belief in the existence of a god, atheism is the rejection of that belief. It is NOT the positive claim that you make it out to be.
What you could say however is that the christian god does not exist because it has not met it’s burden of proof. Either way you’ll hard pressed to find an atheist that is not also agnostic.
Why don’t you hold christianity to the same standard as what you thought atheism is? Do you Know that your god exists? Or do you merely believe it? Be honest with yourself
I hope you will re-evaluate your life choices with this new knowledge.
@jay oh I'm sorry but you wishing your god to exist does not mean it actually exists. You have to first meet your burden of proof, which demonstrably you can not
@Assyrian Nestorian There is maybe a slight distinction between "translated" and "corrupted" 😉
Jay dyer!! The man who inspired me to read books 😂
A smart man. Found him on info wars where he guest host Alex Jones show
LOL yeah Jay made me feel really bad for not reading more
Alex Jones is where the stable geniuses go. 👍
Was he gifted any of Alex Jones' famous supplements?
@@bandygamy5898 Jay promotes CHOQ supplements, idk if that's what Alex Jones promotes.
Ughh...
Jones denies that Islam is the cause of 9/11, also he accuse Jews pretending to be KKK.
Jones is not the type of guy you want share platform with..
1:18:00 Checkmate. Apostate hits a wall. Atheism is illogical because it's self-refuting. Without transcendent logic there can be no debate. Well done, Jay.
it appears you don't know what "atheist" means. there is nothing to self refute. god is illogical, someone who loves you but will send you hell for the slightest excuse. yeah, atheists are illogical, lol.
100%
"Without transcendent logic there can be no debate" is a circular argument.
@@darkira2129 so what we are not classical foundationalist and affirm circular reasoning at the metaphysical level. All worldviews at some level fall into circular logic, that's not a critique
@@jassindeepsingh5609 proof to me that all worldview fall into circular logic. The thing about metaphysical thing is they trying to remove the context. Ofc we can't ever proof that "we're real" but that not the context anyway (yet). What I am saying is there's difference between what functional and what theoretical. Infinite coin toss can always land on head, but the odds still 50:50.
Jay did an excellent job. I hope you guys talk again.
Leave A Msg User Is Offline I’d call it organic
Really enjoyed
@Randay Year2525 no need of using that kid of language brother.
Randay Year2525 what’s your problem?
@Randay Year2525 Call him superstitious (that's what he is). I just don't see what there is to be gained from calling him an "idiot" (this word has an actual meaning in correspondence with IQ) in such a hasty manner.
Randay Year2525 bet you’re fun at parties
Wow Jay. U did a great job here. Brother AP must think his position now. God bless u both. Very nice & informative discussion.
Hi bro
@@summacontragentiles how r u my bro
He will come back atheist next video. If he does not,I will accept Christ myself.
@@Remake5182No problem my friend. we still love u all
@@ranferchristian8050 Lets hope AP does become Christian, because then Jesus will let me enter heaven.
Guys did you see Jay's Quran? It looks so studied. Bad news for Hijab, Zakir Naik and rest 😅
Ha ha!!
Im a doctor
Ali dawah, zakir naik, Muhammad Hijab, these are all clowns
@@Aaron-dq3xz and islam is the circus.
I'm really impressed with Jay's patience as a teacher and missionary.
I guess im randomly asking but does someone know a tool to get back into an Instagram account?
I stupidly forgot my password. I would love any tricks you can give me.
@Daniel Mathew Instablaster =)
@Andrew Randall thanks for your reply. I found the site on google and im trying it out atm.
Takes a while so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Andrew Randall it did the trick and I now got access to my account again. I'm so happy!
Thank you so much you really help me out :D
@Daniel Mathew you are welcome :)
Never saw this. Probably the best introduction to Jay's ideas and transcendental argumentation I've seen. The live questions and answers really elucidated the issues. God Bless, brother.
Ex-Muslims make powerful Christians
Amen
Powerful in what? Spread islamophobia? Making money by doing this video? Farid Respond already debunk David Wood and this guy, if you're truly a Christian then dont be arrogant.
@skeptical cosmonaut Stfu. Respect all people
ap refuted -ua-cam.com/video/clsriz6ppAw/v-deo.html
@@hassankhalid8917 islam spreads islamaphobia. Ex Muslims gives islam a phobia
Actually a really wholesome conversation
@aattitude it wasn’t wholesome with Muhammad Hijab because Hijab sent rape threats to APs wife. Kinda puts a damper on the mood.
@aattitude what do you base the claim that muslim apologists are better behaved than Christian apologists on? My experience leads me to the opposite conclusion.
@aattitude I beg to differ. These two have never threatened or harassed any one. I’ll give you that they’re brazen in their methodology but I wouldn’t say that they’re even close to the what MH or Ali Dawa do on a regular basis.
@aattitude one thing is saying that somebody is stupid or that their religion is stupid, or that their prophet is stupid. It’s another thing entirely to call for the execution of somebody, present veiled rape threats and encourage ones followers to harass ones opponent. It poisons the well. You might say that calling somebodies religion poisons the well too, but such is it to debate in the west. you have to accept that people call you stupid or your beliefs stupid. threats and harassment are however unacceptable and in large parts of the west punishable with prison.
@aattitude but sure. make the list.
Im Ex Muslim From Indonesia💪🖐️🇮🇩 Proud To Be Ex Muslim
So you now believe that Air and Aliens created everything.
@Dianne Higo Plus she's an Atheist.
Plus it's a troll account.
@@cocothecoconut2470 Christ is fully God and fully man, with everything that entails. He is one person of the Trinity. Christ is who we were meant to be. This is fundamental theology which you can find in the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed, which every Orthodox Christian recites at least once a week.
@@cocothecoconut2470 Yeah, that wasn't His intention though. He came to conquer death by death.
Appreciate you having JD on..little heated at times but remained very civil. Big props to Nada 🔥🔥. Hope you guys can do more in the future.
I gotta admit, I really do love it when Jay gets the whiteboard out !
I always crack up laughing. It's effective to make it more tangible and digestible but still such an elementary act and humorously so
No offense to AP because he's definitely not slow, but it's called the slow boy whiteboard.
Best talk after long time
Glad u liked it. I talk about stuff like this as well on my channel
It turns out that removing logic from the curriculum was a bad idea.
@Kristin j.r. ahah, depends on goals!
Badly taught logic is even worse... which is why it's so taught by apologists tot heir rubes.
The claim that morality cannot be objective is contradictory because it’s an objective claim about morality, which assumes morality exists, if it exists, it presupposes there is a standard. Just say morality doesn’t exist.
But the reality is - it does.
Morality is the feeling that certain actions are 'right' or 'wrong' to do. Feelings objectively exist. Feelings are subjective.
Brilliant point!
@@AsixA6 "rightness" and "wrongness" are objective in themselves. Feelings can either be right or wrong. A man may "feel" that it is "right" for him to rape a woman of his choosing, but that doesn't mean that he is objectively morally right. We would rightly call that man objectively morally wrong.
@@juilianbautista4067 _""rightness" and "wrongness" are objective in themselves."_
*I look forward to you evidencing your claim.*
_"We would rightly call that man objectively morally wrong."_
*No, you'd rightly call that man SUBJECTIVELY morally wrong.*
*Our shared SUBJECTIVE FEELING that rape is 'wrong' ≠ rape is 'objectively wrong'.*
Wel wel another brother of us Jay .. may God bless you with wisdom
Pasi Paki I don’t need to see the link you have send me cus I know who my God is hahah . Matt 24:23 Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There he is!’ do not believe it... he is already warned me from this look . Hope and I pray for your eyes 👀 to be opened that you come to get to know the very God that has died for you in the cross so he can save you from going to everlasting hell . Pls listen 👂🏽 to him right now and ask him any thing he is ready to answer to heal to forgive to save to make a way for you . Amen Jesus loves you so much
@jossy perspective shalom my brother / sister :-) may my good God bless you abundantly. Jesus loves you , be strong and live your life for the lord .
And yes , Jay Dyer can talk in a peaceful way . Not like some Muslims apologists 👍👍👍
To Christians, he acts exactly like Muhammad Hijab
Jay is a seasoned philosopher and is apt at picking on fallacies et al. All in all we didnt come here to shout "oohhh so and so destroyed so and so". AP is such a fine gentleman, i hope one day he will experience the Lord for himself. In Christ as in this debate, there are no losers and winners only learning. Plus i will choose AP's atheism over islam ANY DAY
Amen ❤️
Agreed
Because you are obviously ignorant of Islam? Indeed, no surprise here.
@@harryosbourne451 Everyone will soon see who is ignorant about islam. The moment i start asking you questions you will tell me i am not a scholar. So for starters why do you bow down to the black stone and the cube when you perform the salah especially as they say allah didnt tabernacle there nor can allah enter his creation. Therefore for what reason do you do this pagan act which hitherto was also performed by the pagans of arabia
@@squarecircles4846
We have had enough of the "experience of the Lord", exhibited by Christians for the last 5 years or so. As you are, so is your "Lord" -- abusive, hateful, disrespectful, deceptive, ignorant, lacking in compassion and empathy, never skipping an opportunity to elevate yourselves and belittle those different from you.
You are nothing like Jesus, you aren't even capable of pretending to be like Jesus.
Does God exist? Yes.
Favourite moments (Will Update):
16:45 Jay freezes, lol
33:41 Orthodoxy's view on salvation for the non-Christians
41:38 Orthodoxy's view on natural revelation
51:42 Why God instead of no God?
1:01:54 Justification battle for morality
1:18:41 Simple self-refutation to say the statement, "There is no universal claims" makes it a universal claim based on Apostate Prophet's private judgement, so therefore, there are universal claims and objective morality does exist, because he knows it but denies the revelation of it.
1:27:45 Fr. Deacon Ananias in live chat
That was cool
AP my dear brother, God doesn't send us to hell because we "disbelieve". Rather, it is because of our shortcomings, or in other words, our iniquities (sin). "
It is simply wrong to say that Christians go to heaven because they "believe" while others go to hell because they "disbelieve". Heaven is not a place for "good people". Rather, it is a place for "forgiven people".
I want to keep it brief, so I won't go that deep into the subject. Just remember that God is perfectly just, which means everyone has to be accountable for whatever wrongdoings they may have committed in life.
With that said, God is also perfectly merciful, which is why He offers to pay the debt on your behalf.
I LOVE YOU APOSTATE PROPHET!
Bump this up. God bless brother. Spread love. Jesus saves
Any sacrifice of a human being is satanic in origin. It is the most grotesque thing.
@@elliot7205 someone who willingly sacrifices his own life so that you, despite being his enemy, can live is grotesque?
@@BelteshazzarAzarya did christ ask to be saved from death? The answer is yes but the creator (supposedly) killed his son/himself. Blood sacrifice is satanic in origin however Ezekiel chapter 18 makes it clear, ask for forgiveness and the creator forgives the illogical notion that sin is passed on is dispensed with.
Amen.
AP is listening, I like that, even if he isn't getting the universal claim argument lol
I doubt he’s listening! ... whilst Dyer is explaining in simple terms the argument, the Apostate is thinking of ways to shield his own worn out views because to do so would expose his inner being to the shallowness of his arguments and risk the crumbling of the house of cards he built (following the demise of his prior beliefs).
@@philosophers-riddleIslam just killed his faith in God but the guy is still a good person
@@philosophers-riddle Yeah, I agree Apostate Prophet isn't all that educated in this area. As an atheist, and one who considers himself educated in these debates, I think AP should do the opposite of what you're suggesting. I think he should study up on the flaws in Dyer's arguments and educate himself on the works of Mackie and Oppy.
@@philosophers-riddle Don't be so harsh. The first time hearing TAG can be difficult for some, if he is searching for the truth he will find it. It might even take a decade
I hope they have a part 2. When I heard these reductios the first time they were way over my head.
If you come to a conclusion that is not logically coherent, then it’s wrong
Glory to God ☦️
Probably one of my most favorite debates ever posted. Very civil, constructive, and productive discussion. Most likely will listen again, hats off to both of you!
JAY IS THE MAN.
@Leave A Msg User Is Offline r/iamverybadass
@Leave A Msg User Is Offline you can join Jay's discord channel and leave everyone there speechless, no need to throw away your hard earned cash
@Aaron W. C. Oh, yeah? And how's that?
@Ali Khan So glad to hear it. God bless. Join his discord server.
@Aaron W. C. You're presupposing a notion of what "good" is, which you cannot justify as an atheist. Also, that's patently absurd and false.
Nice discussion! It’s great to see how passionate AP is when talking about God issues. Love Jay Dyer too! 🤧🤧🤧
I know Jay is good man👍 Good to see him on this channel..😀
Thank you AP and Jay, what a great discussion! God bless both of you.
AP I am still praying for you, I wish you found it sooner or later, I am glad you're seeking it very seriously!
If you want to learn more about Jay's argument I recommend these videos: These are the video's I would recommend "Top 10 BAD Arguments Against the Transcendental Argument for God
".... "Matt Dillahunty/Dyer Debate, Aquinas & Classical Foundationalism - FrDcn Dr. Sorem / Jay Dyer
"...."An Orthodox Theory of Knowledge" by The Norwegian Nous...."Kurt Gödel's Incompleteness Theorem and the Origin of the Universe (part 1 & 2) by Perry Marshall....Jay's debates with Dillahunty, Malpass, and Molyneux.
I would add Jay's debate with JF.
@@nikephoros3939 Good call. I would really like to see Jay and Ananias have a good debate with a protestant presuppositionalist. When Ananias brought up the distinction between cause of knowledge (Spirit) and mechanism of knowledge (Church for Ananias and "The Spirit's dwelling in me" for Matt) Matt Slick would not even go there.
I prefer dialogs like this one over debates. Great friendly discussion between Ridvan and Jay! Love it!
Jay will obliterate MO Hijab in debate. Hijab PRACTICES Islamic sophistry, a well KNOWN school of thought to promote Islam through deception in argumentation and half truths. Jay will pick them up one by one, and teach him that he needs to learn more if he is to EVER win a debate with some Christian of renown.
Atheists and Agnostics are growing in Turkey, Iran, Albania, Bosnia and Herzegovina, and Kazakhstan.
From one abhramic cult to another abhramic cult ,
From frying pan to fire
@Who else did you have in mind? i disagree , madam
@Pat Ashley you’re wrong, where is the proof of this? Lmfao
@Pat Ashley thats made up by new age paganism stupid
@Dianne Higo Are you calling Muslims devil worshipers?
The title was misleading lol. I enjoyed the dialogue. Come on home to Christ AP
Why do you feel the need to preach Christianity? Can you not just enjoy and discuss the topic at hand without diverging?
Where was your jesus during slavery ? 🤣
@@user-tl8et8ed6d , He was the logic that led people to understand that slavery was wrong, at least in the sense of African American slavery (not talking about indepted servitude where one owes another money/commiting a crime and being a servant for up to 7 years). It was the old testament teachings that ALL men are creating equal, and that women came from man (therefore women included) along with that last becoming first and slave higher than master in the new testament, that did away with slavery Western society. Without these teachings, you would still have slaves like they still do in many non western countries.
@@user-tl8et8ed6d if you would really like to educate yourself on how your thinking originated, I recommend you read the new book by historian Tom Holland, a secular historian who's made a deep investigation in morality and came up with some shocking conclusions no on can deny in his book: Dominion- The Making Of the Western Mind
@Bruce Wayne Why do I think slavery is bad ? Is same as asking why do I believe in money . Do you understand ?
Amazing talk. After a year of hearing Jay debate w strong words it was really touching at about 2h10 to hear him discuss the love and goodness of God and Christ. He's always got to play defense and this was just a nice touching personal moment.
god does't love anyone, all god wants is to be worshipped, he's a dictator who kills people.
Orthodox Christianity as presented and explained by Jay is much more coherent And defendable than Islam,RC and Protestanism.
Of course. It's what Christianity was supposed to be after all.
This is a huge reason why i converted to Orthodox Christianity 6 years ago as opposed to the other world views you mentioned and will be an Orthodox Christian forever. In the end the evidence was overwhelmingly in favour of orthodox Christianity on so many levels. It just never stops making so much sense to me. This is the original and authentic and pure form of Christianity that Jesus taught his apostles and the apostles went to their martyrdom defending
You put Islam with Christianity. That is truly of your father the devil. Division comes from Satan. If they accept the Trinity then they are Christians.This is the most basic common sense concept in Christianity. The only exception would be single God Protestants. Do better and learn how to spell Protestantism. You're an embarrassment to over 2 billion Christians.
God bless both of you ....nice civil discussion...we will pray for you Ap
Hi. Great discussion/debate! I am a Catholic Christian convert . I have tried to listen to Jay Dyer before but this is the first time I’ve been able to listen to the whole thing. Looking forward to part 2.
Have you looked into orthodox Christianity before and perhaps considered it as a potential possibility of being the true Version of Christianity?
@@Ananias17There is no truth in that sect. It is a distortion of the truth.
I hope you are still catholic friend. Be careful when you watch people like him and watch your ears
@@joao.fenix1473 which sect are you referring to? I want to preface by saying, my fathers family is Jewish and my mothers is Roman Catholic and I spent 20 years searching relentlessly for the true faith and the evidence God revealed to me lead me through a long journey that lead me directly to the faith that Christ taught and established, the apostles preached and preserved and that the church fathers died for. I followed the evidence and surrendered myself completely to Gods will and allowed him to guide me to his true body where Christ Hiimself is the only head and God lead me to the Orthodox Church, the ground and pillar of truth, where Christ promised the gates of hell would not prevail against it. When I experienced my first orthodox Divine Liturgy it was as if I had jumped into a Time Machine and travelled back 2000 years ago to the time of the apostles and early church and it was the first time I had a genuine and profound encounter with Christ where I felt the Holy Spirit fill me with with so much joy as it said to me “welcome home my child”. I wept like I never wept before
@@joao.fenix1473 I am an Eastern Orthodox convert myself.
Regarding why Orthodoxy and not Catholicism…I highly recommend the following books
Two Paths: Orthodoxy & Catholicism: Rome's Claims of Papal Supremacy in the Light of Orthodox Christian Teaching
Book by Michael Whelton
The Orthodox Patristic Witness Concerning Catholicism
An Orthodox Ethos Publication
Know the Faith: A Handbook for Orthodox Christians and Inquirers
Book by Michael Shanbour
Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy. Finding the Way to Christ in a Complicated Religious Landscape. (second Edition Revised and Expanded).
Book by Andrew Stephen Damick
The Religion of the Apostles: Orthodox Christianity in the First Century
Book by Stephen De Young
Peter E. Gillquist
Becoming Orthodox: A Journey to the Ancient Christian Faith
The orthodox way
Book by Kallistos Ware
The Orthodox Church
Book by kallistos Ware
And an orthodox study bible
The videos; “the errors of the Catholics” by orthodox Christian theology and any other video from this channel regarding Catholicism.
An orthodox perspective on Roman Catholicism by Fr Josiah trenham from patristics nectar publications and any video he has made regarding Catholicism
Any video from jay dyer and David Erhan regarding Catholicism.
Any video from orthodox ethos channel regarding Catholicism
Any video from the channel roots of orthodoxy or bottom of the rabbit hole.
Jay Dyer is a blessing
The funny thing is that I was subscribed to AP channel long before this discussion and later discovered also JD. I'm an orthodox since birth (coming from Romania). Really like you both.
I am praying that Apostate Prophet will gonna get save through Jesus Christ!!
No, unfortunately he won't. AP is not looking for the Truth, even if he says that he is.. He is looking for a convenient god who fits his own standards and views, his "religion " is liberalism. Liberalism and Christianity are incompatible.
@@alexs8335 you sound exactly like a muslim
Don't hold your breath.
@@alexs8335
Interestingly, every single dictator (and their supporters) that ever lived or live right now (Russia, China, Saudi Arabia...) have been well known to hate liberalism, with a passion. And those that hate liberalism tend to be attracted to authoriterian leaders/dictators. Kindred spirits you are; very hypocritical, too. ;)
@@ezbody, "dictator", "dictatorship" are the ideological labels for political opponents. Liberalism is opposite to Christianity philosophically, theologically, ideologically, mentally.
Dyer here full of Great Grace....Praise Christ Jesus....Too me this is J D about his calling , at his best here...Peace
Very enjoyable conversation, hope to see more of you two, thanks from a believer-in-the-making. A round of applause for the graceful followers in the comment section, on both sides.
For someone claiming to be a pragmatist, Apostate shouldn't be making universal claims. According to pragmatism we can never attain absolute certainty about anything; only degrees of certainty are available to us. So, he should be qualifying his statements, "to the best of our knowledge" and "we're fairly certain" and so forth.
Jay kills it, again. 👏🙏
I was born a Roman Catholic and then became an atheist later on (due to my pride in human understanding and scientific knowledge I though I could disprove God. Afterwards, I put my pride aside and the real evidence led me back to God. Now I’ve learned not to lean on my understanding of things but I’m God’s wisdom.) I then almost became a Muslim but was led back to Roman Catholicism. Now I am planning to convert to the true Catholicism (Orthodoxy) and take my faith to the fullest. I love your videos, AP, as you and Jay Dyer are some of my favorite speakers. ☦️
This was excellent. Really enjoyed the format and Jay did a fantastic job
Sure. Jay came with strong evidence for the exsistence of god. The Nobel Prize is home😂😂😂
I’m glad AP had him. I learned so much from Jay Dryer.
This is one of the best conversation between two opposable minds i've listened to. Sometimes my christian brother seem to be speaking over Ap, but on the whole i learnt alot. thank you both.
You might learn from my channel too
it's a waste of time though cos even if there were a god no one has a clue what one would want. god could prefer atheists for all you know.
@@HarryNicNicholasAre you making a universal claim about God? Do you have access to God's mind?
The claim was actually about people's knowledge of god not about god itself.@@nuphhrffe875
@@nuphhrffe875your question pre-supposes that God has a "mind". You don't even know that.. lmao
still waiting to hear a justification for atheistic "morality". existentialism and pragmatism are not qualifying as an answer because even to say what "works" is something that has to be justified.
@@RyukazeTerra So its feelings vs feelings. No morality. Just ick.
@@RyukazeTerra You just granted yourself a lot of things. But I will grant you your evolution position and your muh ick important.
Great. Why does it matter when ick vs. ick?
Who says? Why should your right to ick trample over my ick? We are matter in motion. There is no right and wrong. Why would suffering be bad? Maybe its good? Self preservation? Why would that be good? Matter in motion, finite. There is no meaning, no morality, no purpose and no truth. Anything goes, the stongest survive.
That is the logical conclusion of atheism.
Also your idea that ick is required to follow God is nonsense. Following God is perfectly logical and requires no emotion . God is the basis for all truth. You cant even make absolute statements without God and especially not moral ones. It is woke atheists that are the emotional ones. Because thats all they have and its all they can cling to for purpose. Slippery slope from hell, literally.
This was a great discussion. Can't wait for the next one AP. :) Keep it up!
You looked a bit confused at a few points so it might help looking up about inductive vs deductive. Jay brought up Hume and the is-ought/problem of deduction. Tied into that is the universal vs particular. Also ontology might be helpful to look into regarding what is evil, at least in the Christian worldview.
AP is actually A Christian in disguise 😄this is my new theory
I trust that God will work with him the way he did with me. God willing
In his eyes you can see he's not
I need Jay's face pasted onto Arnold from Commando RIGHT NOW!
@Esben M Me or you?
@Esben M Mate your coom nerves are blocking out your critical thinking skills.
"I just know, it just is" -- atheists, imagine a Christian, Muslim etc. coming with this argument to you. Would you find it acceptable? No? Would you laugh at it? Then don't use it.
It’s honesty. We don’t know why some things are. Why would we make up some reason? That is what religion is.
Fantastic intellectual conversation - I loved the whole 3 hours. Praying for you. I hope you become my brother in Christ. You had said you have sincerely sought God, but then at the end of the program said you prefer your own ideas of morality. Both of those things cannot be true. That is what happened at the fall - we preferred to be our own gods deciding between good and evil. God will not be remade in your image or the image of any evil man. He is good and the only one who can make us good again. May you see the Savior in all his goodness. He is foolishness to the world, but He is wisdom to us.
Ameen 🙏 i personally believe somewhere in my heart ❤ one day AP gona accept CHRIST
love jay dyer mewing the entire time😆 God bless him
This is one of the finest showings I’ve ever seen from Jay! Beautiful conversation, and great display of patience and grace! Glory to Jesus Christ!
I love this disscusion. Thank you AP and JD. This was disscusion of 2 mature man. AP, i pray for you. GBU both.🙏🏼
@Pasi Paki i pray for you too🙏🏼
@Pasi Paki i still will pray for you because my God teach me to do that. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206%3A27-36&version=NIV
@Pasi Paki Let him pray for you and see what happens.
@@laf7907 how do you know God taught you that? Did he teach you first hand?
How do you know what you've been taught is the actual wisdom from God?
@@kris2672 if you really interested in learning about christianity, you can join Sam Shamoun and David wood youtube channel, he was an athiest, so he understand why you don't accept about believing in God.
Anyway, here something to think.
If there are no God, no heaven, no hell. I have nothing to loose when i die (as a christian).
But
If there is God, and who believe in Him will go heaven, and who don't believe in him will go to hell.
Where will the people who don't believe in God be?
Do you agree that LOVE is beautiful. God is Love. www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%206%3A27-36&version=NIV
Jay Dyer is my absolute go-to guy for anything Orthodoxy-related but he does seem to have this flaw where he himself hinges his "opponent's" ignorance on their logical grasp of their own ignorance. Ignorance does not proceed from how one logically presents one's own ignorance to himself and others, it simply is; and every time this comes up, Jay starts attacking the other person's logical construction and presentation of their own ignorance or problem in general and then ends up thinking that successfully dismisses the issue.
It's kind of ironic that it's an Orthodox Christian doing this kind of thing because I would imagine that it's the Orthodox Christian's position to think "things either exist or not regardless of your logical grasp on those things"; whereas it's the atheist who I would think would say "I want you to give me a logical reason why I should believe this thing exists or is real or works like that".
Which is why I think the LDS church is better
Lol no @@Ldsemoboy
It’s like teaching a dog algebra. The problem is that a sophist has too much pride in his finite intellect. The problem is his pride. It’s why the real miracle happens when you accept Christ as your Lord and Savior. Then logic actually works completely.
Get ready to become the next Nabeel Qureshi - Remember David Wood saying this to AP?😀
@akbrs Surely I will watch the video.
@akbrs ua-cam.com/video/76zrdnvkmtc/v-deo.html
Listen to him .It won't take much time.
@akbrs But I never said anything harsh to you when you sent me the link which is against Christianity. If you don't want Christianity to be true it's totally fine. But if you're placing your arguments against it then I also have the same right to present my counter arguments. And that's what I did.
Nabeel qureshi whose in hell 😂
@@izharcohen4572 in you mind and opinion because you are not God
Much respect for apostate prophet and jay dayer
Both of you guys are awesome!!
God bless you both ☦️
Many say "Where is this God? Show me God and I'll believe!" Well, Christ already came and many did not believe him. What makes Atheists think that they will believe in him when he comes again?
very true i mean what do those people expect? God casually coming back every year? John 20:29: Then Jesus told him, “You believe because you have seen me. Blessed are those who believe without seeing me.”
Supposedly the god of the bible wants a relationship with all of us, yes? Obviously Jesus was aware there were gonna be those of us who needed more than a fancy story. This all-powerful all-loving ever-present creator of everything wants a relationship with us, yet doesn't introduce himself?
How are you getting it wrong when you're the one writing the words. "Many say show me god"
Then you say they won't believe when 'he comes again'
Atheists don't say he should come again, we say show me god. Not some guy who can do magic tricks and claims to be Jesus come again. Show. Me. God. He should be able to convince us beyond a doubt that he's god.
So, either good god does not love us all.
Doesn't want a relationship with all of us
Or doesn't exist, logically speaking.
@@the-outsider8458 listen I feel like you don’t understand it. What is the point of this world when god without a doubt showed himself to everyone and every single human being starts to believe in god? You decide your life/fate cause you have a free will. But god does introduce himself to a lot of people in fact especially if you already believe in him. But also if you don’t. There are tons of stories of people converting to god from atheism or whatever because god appeared to them. Christian’s believe that god came once as flesh into this world to make a testimony for eternity and it’s your decision. Either you trust Jesus or not.
@@talyadalaha how do you trust someone you've never met? That's just being gullible.
Your god supposedly wants a relationship with everyone, ask him what the point of the world is. Ask him anything that actually requires an answer. No coincidences or interpreting 'signs'.
You wanna believe in magic with zero demonstrable evidence, that's up to you. You wanna believe in the god that endorses slavery, who desires to rape women, commands the genocide of entire races of people, doesn't know how to forgive without demanding blood, and murders his most devout follower's entire family for sport
AP, here is my advice as someone struggling with conversion to Orthodoxy from Atheism myself. Jay's arguement which he caught you on, about your inconsistency on morals is the one thing that got through to me a while back while listening to him. I saw the contradiction which he exposed in your thinking (and mine at that time too) and realised that I had had it wrong all along. You can't make a universal claim about morality by stating that "you can't make universal claims aboyt morality". The claim itself IS A UNIVERSAL CLAIM ABOUT MORALITY and so is INCONSISTENT. Jay doesn't agree, he says YOU CAN MAKE UNIVERSAL CLAIMS ABOUT MORALITY, so there isn't a contradiction. When you say you "want was it best for everyone", that is your subjective view of what is best. Someone else might want "what is worst for everyone" and the only way for you to resolve that disagreement is for you to impise your will on theirs, ultimately by defeating them however you can (verbal, physical etc). Neitzsche is an honest Atheist in that he at least admits that he can't make moral claims, which is why he is fine with Ubermensch imposing their will on others. If you're too weak to resist, he says, well that's tough luck.
Jay once explained one of the Epistles (I have forgotten which one) as saying that non believers (atheists in particular) don't need to hear more logical syllogisms and arguements, they need humility and repentance. I advise you to look into the Orthodox understanding of repentance. I have yet to achieve it but I am trying because I now see that it is good. When you say "I simply am not convinced", that's a YOU problem. If you showed me 2+2=4 and I said "eh, I don't buy it", who's issue is that? Is it yours? Is it the maths' issue? Neither, it is MY ISSUE. It isn't up to God to make you change your mind, he wants you to love him without affecting your free will (a short scene from Bruce Almighty put this into perspective for me, where Bruce wants a woman to love him but doesn't want to trick her, or give her a love potion or anything else, he wants her to love him of her own choice, and he has the conversation with Morgan Freeman as God on this dilemma). It isn't Jay's responsibility to make you love God, you have to choose to. Christ said "if you love Me you will keep My commandments". So if you want to love God, keep His commandments. I want to love God which is why I try to do just that. I fail sometimes, in which case I pray and ask for forgiveness, then I get up and follow the commandments again.
For most, conversion isn't an overnight job, it takes months or years to truly repent. I hope I reach that stage soon, and I hope you can begin in the path too.
I believe I have made myself clear, if you see and read this I will happily clarify or explain everything. Hopefully you'll find some aid in this. God bless you AP.
Hey man, great comment! You have any recommendations for reads for new orthodox believers? I’m a life long Protestant and learning about orthodox currently.
@@jj691 i was chrismated back in September so am still new to Orthodoxy myself. I haven't read Rock and Sand but I hear it is good for providing an Orthodox view on Protestantism. Also I am about to start The Religion of the Apostles (as part of a parish book study) which traces Orthodoxy back to those who personally knew Christ including his Apostles.
The primary influences for me were going to church, praying and reading scripture. If you like podcasts, The Lord of Spirits is a fantastic one and seems to have many protestant (and ex protestant) listeners. I enjoy it a lot, but am still catching up on episodes.
Thanks for the explanation, this makes sense to me
@@delightk I'm glad, God bless you.
@@owainystlyg8215 recently watching this video and looking though the comments, I don't know how your journey into Orthodoxy is going but check out Rock and Sand by Father Josiah. He was a life long protestant who converted to Orthodoxy and became a well respected priest in the Orthodox church
Jay and A.P. are patient and honest interlocutors. It's pleasurable to audit such discussions. I'm just a bit frustrated by the lack of understanding regarding logic. Argument Ninja (Argument Ninja Dojo) has a very nice course for people interested in learning logic and so on... Thanks, Gents.
Thanks for the recommendation!
AP has no justification for what ought to be beyond his own subjective opinions.
"We cannot do x because it infringes on people's rights." You're stuck in the paradigm of presupposing that human flourishing is beneficial which is not self evident under atheism. Just because humans subjectively like to prosper doesn't mean that is how the world ought to be. YOU CANNOT DERIVE AN OUGHT FROM AN IS UNDER ATHEISM.
You know, AP, I appreciate you and your work. But as just an extremely ameteur armchair philosopher, even I can tell that you are out of your depth. It is obvious that you don't understand what universal claims are in logic. This is like undergrad level stuff, bro. You have basically rejected the existence of God based on narratives given to you by pop-culture science. If you want a better grounding in logic and philosophy, check out Dover Publications.
Atheism stand no chance vs Christianity, this video is one more proof of that)
orthodox Christianity offers the best answers to atheist objections to God in my opinion vs any other world view
@@Ananias17 yes true
There's no such thing as atheism but if you want to play that game, everyone is an atheist towards one god or another, as no one believes in all the gods in play.
May God bless Jay and AP too
The difference between the Christian, Muslim and islamic "interpretation" of the scriptures I believes heavily favors Christianity, at least if you truly understand each claim and resulting consequence;
Muslims say this and that Scripture prophesy Mohammed, the problem is that the Qur'an clearly and irrifultabley contradicts those same scriptures, if one is true the other can't be and if BOTH ARENT true Islam is always false. Muslims basically have to throw out 99.9% of the old Testament as corrupted even though their OWN book says it is guidance and truth, Islam fundamentally self-destructs due to its own claims.
The Jews have to say some prophesies did NOT come true, the prophecy for example in Daniel which specifically says the Messiah would come after the second temple was built and die before it was destroyed, if you claim Christianity ISNT true then this prophecy was never fulfilled and Judaism is false, or at the very least it worships a God who's prophecies don't come to pass, which would be a false God based on the old Testament statements. The Jewish insistence that Christianity isn't true makes their God a false God.
Christianity is the only one that is able to say the old Testament IS TRUE and that the new testament is the perfect fulfilment of all prophecies in it. It is the only one of the three that DOESN'T have to say God is either unreliable or did not preserve his revelation.
If we work from the presupposition that the old Testament/Torah is TRUE then the only logical conclusion is that Christianity is true.
AP not gonna lie, Jay did make you think twice
Jesus is king 👑
Yes he is! Praise the lord
AP you are a simpleton, saying it doesnt make sense when you talk to scholars just makes you look silly. I like you AP but you are out of your league here.
As a Christian I must say that you have been completely and utterly destroyed and humiliated, boy
Lots of question begging by AP. Good discussion though and nice to see a conversation between different views.
To be honest AP got smoked
I am a proud Christian Orthodox too.
There HAS TO BE a debate between Jay and Mimi Hijab
I don't know about that. Hijab is a mental midget who isn't worth Jay's time intellectually. Also, he harrassed AP's wife and has a habit of doxxing, making gross sexual comments etc. after he loses debates. The only thing I think people should do with Hijab is troll him aggressively. He doesn't deserve the respect of offering him a debate.
That would be hilarious.
Hijab won’t debate him 😂😂
More and more Christians are turning towards Christian Orthodoxy. It looks like Christian Orthodoxy stands slightly apart from all other Christian denominations.
technically orthodoxy is the original catholic church and official form of Christianity while other forms of Christianity have been modified extensively. orthodoxy has remained unchanged.
ex orthodox here.
Where part 2? That was amazin
This is how 2 civilized people discuss. I hope muslims will watch this and learn.
@Suhail Zaidi are you a true Muslim?
@Suhail Zaidi do you mean hypocrisy on you? Because muhammad desecrated other pagan gods. Even kaaba 🕋, the pagan temple before pislam.
Hypocrisy on another level.
How about desecrating the 6 year old Aishah?
Anas reported:
The Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) used to have sexual intercourse with his wives with a single bath.
Reference : Sahih Muslim 309
In-book reference : Book 3, Hadith 30
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 3, Hadith 606
(deprecated numbering scheme)
sunnah.com/muslim/3/30kufar
@Suhail Zaidi So what? He conquered mecca? Really? Then the US conquered the world thru media and social media. So that piece of paper with full of filthy things can be chewed or burned. And nothing you can do about it. Only whine and complain. Even your rock god can't do anything about it. Poor al Lah. 💩 🐴 🥔
@Suhail Zaidi you didn't answer my simple question. Are you a true Muslim or a false Muslim?
@Suhail Zaidi do you mean the Bible of allah?
Orthodox and love the humility of these 2 people. Jay your blessed with superior knowledge. It's mind blowing
@Leocardia Emanuel Your confusing courage with haughtiness.