Ordered by Napoleon. Which is why he personally permitted the wife and brother in law the passports to search. Because he knew she wouldn't find anything.
Great video! That was an interesting story. I have 2 theories. Theory #1. I think he faked his own death. Hear me out ( lol ). I think he figured out that there was some sort of conspiracy and who it involved and he came up with a plan to fake his own death. I also think the letter in his pocket that he wrote to her asking her not to remarry ( while probably somewhat common in that era ) was his way of trying to tell her that he wasn't dead or more likely he planned on resurfacing at a later date and didn't want to make it an even worse scandal for his wife. Tho this may be a stretch since I don't know what context it was said in and maybe further clues can be found in the rest of the letter. Then to throw off the investigation he had someone or did himself place the pants and letter near the woods. I mean the fact that they had bullet holes with no blood stains makes sense if you're on high alert I know when I'm in a high anxiety state I'm not able to think straight and wouldn't have thought " hmm, maybe I should add some blood to make it more authentic." And the fact that he had been so panicky and restless and probably afraid of being discovered makes me think this was meant to be a red herring from him that he didn't think thru. Why he never resurfaced after the danger was over? Looking at that time period, medicine wasn't that great and there were many, many ways to die back then so he could have passed away before he had the chance to. My theory may be complete rubbish, but, for me it makes sense cuz ghosts aren't real lol.
Viewers who don't listen/watch your non-Tudor videos are missing great content! That was a very good true-crime video with just the right amount of facts vs speculation (meaning, the knocking down of non-facts) vs humor. I believe that poor Mr Bathurst was having a mental health crises made worse by his deteriorating physical health. He, in due course, trusted the wrong people in the village and ended up dead. I hope that you will do more of these historical mystery videos, they are excellent!
Thank you so much. This is actually my favourite of all the videos I've done, even though it'll never be as popular as the Tudor videos. I just found the whole story fascinating and didn't see any other videos that looked at it properly on UA-cam. It really means a lot that you watched it (especially as I know it's a long one) and took the time to comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it and I think BB was unwell too and bumped into the wrong people in the village, who then took advantage in the worst possible way. If I can get the channel to grow a bit more to give me a better income from it, I'll do some more videos like this that aren't going to be as popular, but which will be a bit different. Much as I love the Tudors, they are a bit repetitive for me, but what can I say, they bring in the views and subs!
@@HistoryCalling oh I think you'd find an audience for the longer, stranger historical events. Being home a lot more in the past year or so from world event has really got me hooked on historical channels and mystery stories. Apparently quite a lot of Tudor ones to tap, like the stairwell one. Sooooo so much to learn about. Thank you for a brilliant channel.
@@HistoryCalling you were made for this genre, though. If you co tinue with it, mark my words, your channel will explode even more. Remember me? I'm the one who told you long ago to take a screen shot of my comment because you were gonna get big. That was not so long ago and look at you now!!! I hope you do more of these. You're so good at this.
I saw this video mentioned in your last newsletter. I’m so glad that I decided to watch and what a great “who done it”. I’m in the USA and find your content interesting and so enjoyable to watch.
Fascinating story. Thanks for explaining it so thoroughly. Bathurst seemed to be suffering from some mental health problem (maybe a psychotic break definitely terrible anxiety and paranoia) and while people suffering from fear and paranoia are more likely to harm themselves (deliberately and accidentally) they're also more likely to be harmed by third parties. The clincher here seem to be the trousers. The trousers make NO sense, neither if he killed himself nor if he was murdered. Fascinating.
As soon as you said he flashed his fancy watch and bling bling in the common room, I knew it was a robbery/murder. When they found their cloaks in the hands of thieves, that clinched it.
It’s Occam’s razor “The simplest explanation is usually the best one”. The most likely explanation is that he was robbed and killed in the locality. I mean, he was wearing a diamond broach, a hugely valuable fur coat with ‘violet’ lining, an expensive pocket watch and carrying an excessive amount of money that he took no care to hide !! He would’ve stuck out like a sore thumb - the perfect victim. He was so preoccupied with his arrival back in England and the subsequent loss of his job, that even carrying two pistols wouldn’t have helped him fend off a gang of local thieves, who then robbed and murdered him. I find it highly circumspect that his fur coat was found in the possession of a local thief and his mother along with his travelling companion’s coat, and I suspect that they either had his other valuables stashed away or had already begun selling them. They probably should’ve been arrested and their house searched, as well as known pawn dealers questioned in an attempt to locate the missing items. It was most likely murder committed during a robbery, so essentially aggravated murder in today’s laws. I don’t believe he ever left and is most likely one of the skeletons found buried outside the town….
Haha, you're very welcome. I felt like I really had to call that out, cause honestly, what kind of little terrors would go playing with human remains!
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Had never heard of this case! Quite interesting. I agree with you: murder is the likeliest scenario and it was probably local. Or his traveling companion poisoned him slowly during the voyage, provoking his mental deterioration and eventual death. Just saying. 😉
Yes, it's a bizarre case but perhaps doesn't get as much press as some other famous disappearances, even though I think it ranks as one of the strangest. Poison from one of his companions is certainly a possibility.
We also have to look at what source said he went for a walk. Is it the testimony of one person? Or is it collaborated? One can easily lie or mistake someone else for him. I didn’t hear who gave this evidence however, I was filling out paperwork at my job at the time I was listening lol
I have now officially watch all of your videos which leads me to the question of what I will do to tide myself over between Fridays in the future. 😃 As to this video, I vote for the 1852 skeleton. Oh, and, Merry Christmas, though it's Boxing Day over there by now. 🎄
Fascinating stuff. I love your videos, both the royalty ones and the mystery ones. I know you probably have a huge pile of videos to make, but one that might interest you is a mysterious disappearance of four schoolgirls and a teacher in 1900 in Australia, at Hanging Rock while on a school picnic. It’s never been solved.
THANK YOU for such a kind donation to the channel jldisme and for watching one of the older, less popular videos (which actually happens to be my favourite one that I've done so far!)
There is an alarming amount of similar cases to this even in present time. Someone gets increasingly more paranoid and just disappears without a trace.
Great entry in your wonderful series! I'm glad I finally got around to watching it. I'm a big fan of true crime; I think this qualifies. Your research is presented so well and avoids the sensationalism that one encounters so often on broadcasts here in the States. Thanks for another brilliant presentation.
It's not very important amongst other details given, but I was interested in the story that Benjamin, apologised to his companion for the accusations of untrustworthy behaviour, having gone so far as saying Krause was plotting his death. After apologising, and saying he knew it wasn't true,v"He slept for about two hours, clasping the other man's hand". Was this an example of how Benjamin now trusted in the other? Or of how affectionate the relationship was then? I wondered if instead it was to guarantee Klaus couldn't move away to get weapons or consult with henchmen or paid assassins. Think about the trope of a kidnapping victim being tied to their kidnapper. We can never know the answer, and that answer would be of immense value determining Benjamin's subsequent actions.
always a pleasure to view your content.. had never heard of this story. Admittedly very interesting since your research, and impeccably simple-to follow narration makes it all the more enjoyable viewing...keep up the good work
I wonder what he had said to upset Canning, and what Canning's response was. Do these letters exist still? What can be learned from them? Where would investigations go if we got access to them? 18:20 Methinks t'was The Black Adder Omnibus that really fell through the worm hole and Benjamin got in the unmentionables while trying to actually invent self removing trousers before the French did. (In this timeline, it was Prince George who was as happy as a Frenchman who had invented self removing trousers. Perhaps Ben was literal minded). Kids haven't changed. A friend's daughter who's 8, was absolutely delighted when she found a ram skull, huge with horns and moss growing out the eye sockets. There were random vertebrae nearby but not with a sheep shaped layout, so the idea of a self exploding sheep really kept her amused.
I've never heard of this case before..but Thank you for posting it. To me it makes sense that someone took his life...he was really concerned about being followed..about being poisoned..Maybe he had good reason for believing this. It's unsettling to think you've got an almost invisible foe.
Lovely to hear a consise retelling of this event. I reposted it to a channel that was sensationalising it abit. Murder was So easily done in those days.
I loved this complicated tale of cloak and dagger! It was so complex I’ll admit I couldn’t follow it. But I will say, as a police captain’s wife, that, as high profile as he was, still in that time it would have been quite easy to dispose of a body under dark of night and with no real forensic detection able to be done by local or regional police as the science didn’t yet exist. So, adios Bathurst. I don’t see why his killer would deliberately place the underwear (or bloomers or whatever they were) in the woods, and even less why he’d leave the note in the pocket. You’d think he’d burn what clothing he didn’t sell. I do love the name Phillida as a shortening of Philadelphia! Finally, as always, your voice as narrator is terrific. All your lectures are fascinating but the ones involving heavy foul play are even more intriguing. Please make more as I’ve now watched them all!
Thanks Eugenia. I'm currently working on the biggest foul play story of them all, the Princes in the Tower! Look out for that one in a few weeks time :-)
@@HistoryCalling Excellent video, and you do your research. I think it highly likely that some one realised he was of some standing, and took an axe to him. His money and any other valuables were stolen, and he was buried in the wood. Its often the most complicated cases that have a simple explanation.
Inclined to think the first body discovered was Bathurst. The whole "nothing to see here" stance of the authorities seems like they didn't want the incident brought up again.
Hmmm… I don’t think so- I am inclined to the third. I believe that “nothing to see here” wasn’t related to the Bathurst disappearance- maybe to something else the authorities had something to do with- I see no reason for them to try to hide it years after given that they had been quite helpful im 1809/10…
Thank you for the amazing research into this case. My thoughts are that the simple answer is sometimes the right answer. 😀 he would have been a perfect target for a local robber.. the third body you mentioned regardless of size seems very suspicious..
Thank you so much. It took absolutely ages to put this one together (really started to wonder if I've bitten off more than I could chew about half way through) so I'm particularly proud of it. Yes, that third body found near the place where his trousers turned up was mighty suspicious.
I agree. He was nervous, not feeling well, acting odd and very well dressed. Add this to him being a stranger in the town, I suspect he was followed by some never do wells who wanted to rob him. He may have been murdered deliberately or accidentally killed during an attempted robbery. I don't get the feeling that he harmed himself as in that scenario some thing of him (aside from his pantaloons and letter) should have been discovered. Your videos are wonderful. I am enjoying them thoroughly. What country are you from? You sound like you are English but you pronounce certain words that have a lilt to them that sounds more Irish to me. I'm dying to know. 😇
I had never heard of this incident, fascinating. We should never forget he was an actual living person, and died very young. It seems the skeleton found in 1910 not far from the site where the pantaloons were discovered is compelling. I don’t understand it being possibly ruled out because Benjamin was considered a “slight man“ and the skeleton was too large. How can a skeleton reveal if someone is “slight“ or otherwise? If Benjamin was 6 feet tall then the skeleton could appear to be large, whether or not the person were of a slender or stocky build.
I believe the heavier a person is, then more dense their bones. So weight can be determined with just the skeleton. A slender man would have less dense bones than a heavier one due to the lighter load on them during life.
Muscles and tendons attach to bones and those attachments leave marks on the bones- the heavier and stronger the musculature of a person, the higher the mass of the bones and the more pronounced those markings are. Heavy bone mass and pronounced musculature attachments are indicative of someone who was heavily built.
I love your channel! So many great topics. I find it very odd that Bathurst dismissed the guards before he departed since he was so concerned. I think it was the French.
Yes, his behaviour was very strange. I don't think he was well, but I also don't think he harmed himself. A lot of people suspected the French of involvement. I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. Many thanks for watching and commenting.
Most of the testimony about his last hours was given by a Krause. I find it weird that someone who was paranoid and thought someone was going to kill him would dismiss his guards and walk alone down a lonely lane away from the people he knew.
Bathurst was probably kidnapped and killed by disreputable people; since he was dressed expensively, and had an expensive pocket watch, he could well have been robbed & slain. In other words, he most likely met with foul play. Thanks for providing a more detailed background about the circumstances leading up to his disappearance. Like your Scottish accent! 😊🏴🇬🇧
I'd never heard this story but as soon as I heard"diamond broach" my ears pricked up. Coupled with his making little attempt to conceal his wealth I thought ,that's dangerous. I lean toward the simplest answer. He was robbed and was probably one of the skeletons found. I'd say the last one mentioned.
The curious case of Benjamin Button was even more curious, fiction though it is. For someone who was so concerned about his safety, Bathurst certainly flaunted his possessions and took unnecessary risks. Maybe his mind was on conspiracy theories and not the most likely dangers. I think he was a bit off his marbles and some common crooks found him to be an easy target as a result. Wrong place, wrong time. Oh, and I love the background music you chose for this. Beautiful and ominous.
I've been following the channel for years and somehow missed this one along the way... I think that he rather clumsily attempted to fake his own death because he could not take his job any longer. He seemed quite ill suited for it. Checking his watch, dismissing the guards, "going for a walk"... I think that he deliberately flashed his money and that the pantaloons were a red herring. He may have trusted the wrong person to spirit him away in a shipment of goods, trying to make a clean break. I don't think it would have been someone who remained in the town because it would be very difficult to keep the plans and the aftermath secret. The conspirator wasn't satisfied with whatever agreement had been made and killed him somewhere along the way. I don't think that any of the local skeletons are him. Or his plan might have succeeded and he joined the circus 😊.
That was a long video but excellent to watch, iv never heard of this case before, it would seem like he was murderd, they item they found in the forest was planted to mislead any searching party, it certainly is a baffling case, you came up with a real gem thank you for your painstaking research and sharing.
Yes, it took AGES to put together. I started to lose the will to go on after a while, but I'm glad I persevered. It's one of my favourite videos, even though it'll never be as popular as the Tudor stuff. Glad you liked it :-)
@@HistoryCalling you put a lot of hard work in producing the video, so in depth and narrated, I love all history, it makes a change from Tudor history I'm glad you do other stuff, 😊
@@HistoryCalling I do agree Tudor history is very popular, there is not enough of Stuart history or the plantagenets, or other dynasties, you have a passion for history, as you say keep Learning 😊👍
His age & increasing paranoia it is possible he was becoming schizophrenic. Could he have walked far enough, or gotten a ride, and died further away than the original search area? He didn't seem well suited for that line of work.
My sister was behaving in a similar manner when she developed paranoid schizophrenia, she made several attempts to run away from the hospital and hide somewhere, anywhere, without money or shelter.
It hast to have bern murder. With your fabulous investigative documentary the skeleton under the kitchen floor is a contender. Thank you for such an interesting report.
@@HistoryCalling It would be interesting to know if the skeletens had strikes at the back of the skull?after all he did have pistals. maybe his assaliants were aware of this and decided against a full frontal attack?
I really like you channel. Learned quite a bit since I've started watching. I've always been something of a history nut. But mostly American history, as British and European history seemed so far off. Plus I think the teachers of the time of my primary and secondary grades were not really equipped to teach it with the justice it deserved. But thank you and please keep them coming.
This could be a Missing 411 case except for the nefarious characters surrounding the immediate disappearance. You definetly weaved a mysterious tale here. Ponderous. Thanks for bringing us another great chapter in history. Lvya
Thank you (and thank you for watching and commenting on some of my lesser known videos - I'm just scanning down some recent comments at the moment and I can see your name popping up a few times. Most people won't watch anything that isn't Tudor related!)
I had never heard of this case until I saw another channel mention it. His traveling companions may have killed him because he was driving them crazy. Probably robbery was the motive. He didn't seem well suited to his position.
A most unsettling case indeed… I have watched it many times but for some reason never commented. Personally I agree with you that someone else did it- a robber or simply a killer- but they’re still holes in the theory… I can’t think of why he would dismiss the guards and go for a walk- it baffles me! About the skull in 1852 that his sister said wasn’t him, there had been many years since 1809, wouldn’t it be quite deteriorated by then? Did she say it wasn’t him because of the skull structure? This is all so confusing! The only thing I disagree with is the order you give the theories- for me the suicide theory is less likely than the runaway, though it doesn’t really matter as both are highly unlikely. Great video!! Surely one of my favourite!
Personally, I think that it is most likely that he was killed in a robbery. Though, I’m still open to the idea that it was Napoleon. As he could have given the robbers the items or had them kill him to cover it up. May he rest in peace.
@@HistoryCalling Unfortunately, the very nature of the scientific method means we’ll never be able to present information with the same level of certainty as some of these ‘theories’. Lol, even basic concepts like ‘gravity’ need to be presented as a theory presently under contention, so there’s almost zero chance scientific enquiry can offer the doubt-free guarantee some people desire. Absolute cudos though for being able to hold a steady tone of voice whilst saying that line out loud, I don’t think I’d be able to do it without giggling the whole way through 😹
I rule out local robber because if his clothes were expensive-and they were -they would have been sold by someone. Used clothing was a big market back then and nice things worth big bucks. But also if the widow was paying a reward that big-locals will spill the beans on each other as she said. Military will keep quiet under orders.
The text you quoted in connection with the very first "supernatural" theory (something like it's as if the earth has opened) is actually a pretty common figure of speech in German and just describes the mysterious disappaerance without clues of what happened. The other "supernatural" quote made about turning at the head of the horse reads similarly to me, just a figure of speech to describe he was last seen close to the horses and presumably turned around a corner or similar so he was out of sight of the person this account comes from and thus vanished without a trace. Not supernatural at all, just somewhat flowery descriptions. I think most likely is that someone local saw him handling a lot of money and other valuables and also realized in his unstable appearance he would be overcome easily and quietly. In other words, an easy victim for someone unscrupulous. I wouldn't want to speculate which of the three skeletons, if any, was his. Also, there is still the issue of his pantalons which appeared sometime after that evening, if I understood the video right. I don't quite believe someone would deposit a body and place the clothes relatively close by - or if somebody tried this stunt, that the body would remain undiscovered for a century. If nobody else, surely the local children would have combed the woods nearby in the hopes of some entertainment.
Hi Diana, I completely agree there was nothing supernatural about it, nor do I really see anything 'supernatural' in the quotes myself. My point was more that other people have used these quotes to build up a lot of silly stories around what happened to him. Like you, I think some dodgy locals were probably to blame. Many thanks for watching.
I’m in Australia and the phrase “ the earth opened up and swallowed them “ is very common. Well, for my generation and prior. I hadn’t heard the other one you quoted though. Always interesting to hear about different sayings 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Yes, the "as if the ground had swallowed him" expression is still used pretty much every time there's a missing persons case in Germany or other German language countries.
Wow, somehow I skipped this video when I had discovered this channel. While I agree that the most likely possibility is that he was killed, I have some things to say if we consider thar the skeleton in the woods is him: 1) it is very hard to dig a grave in the woods as there are tree roots, so the killers had to dig it earlier during the day; 2) the sceleton was found in 1910 so it had not been disturbed by animals, so the grave must have been very deep which makes the task of digging it even more difficult; 3) freshly dug graves are usually very easy to spot so if they indeed buried him there, they had to wait after the search. And why did they put his pants WITH a letter? I also wonder if it is possible that some parts of the sceleton still rermains and if with modern DNA technology can the mystery be solved.
what you forget about the captured ambassadors is that the ones released were caught with their papers but he had burnt his so they only way they could have found out what was in them was questioning or torture. What does seem strange to me is that he was in such a rush to leave but nobody wondered why he would walk off. He may have been going to meet someone though as you mention he kept looking at his watch, maybe it was not because of how long it was taking to pack but to leave for a meeting.
This! Also the fact that the person who was trying to provide proof for his capture was then murdered... yes that means we didn't get his proof but that's one hell of a suspicious coincidence! I think he was captured and probably died accidentally while imprisoned and/or tortured. Since he was already in a bad state of health he may have died when his captors hadn't intended it, and suddenly they were in an awkward position that would have led to further international tensions if it came out. They placed the pantaloons as a false lead and murdered the guy who would spill the beans. The pantaloons were obviously meant to be found, even containing the letter to positively identify them as belonging to him. A robber would have no motive to stage that, he'd want any evidence gone, especially if the body was actually close by!
@@Felsenkeks I think you may well be onto something. The deliberate placing of the trousers was definitely a message to someone. But Who?And who left it? A Random killer would want to hide his crime ,not advertise it 3 weeks later!
I first read this case when I was a little boy, and now, looking back at it after I’ve grown up, I could just laugh at the little me who suspected Napoleon to have played a hand (not Napoleon’s and especially not Fouche’s style at all). Benjamin was ignorant of the threats that his actions posed. Maybe he was too paranoid knowing what happened to the Duke of Enghien 5 years before this.
Thank you so much for your hard work. Time consuming for you but greatly appreciated by us. I’d not heard of this disappearance before. Very interesting. I feel that that he was murdered. He would have stood out like a sore thumb in the town, as a reasonably well to do gent and a foreigner. Or it was a state sanctioned affair. If it was a State sanctioned deed, I feel they would have disposed of the body and covered their tracks much better whilst leaving the pantaloons seems to be a more amateurish endeavour . I’d go ‘ death by misadventure’. Isn’t that what they say when they thinks it’s murder but can’t prove it. He may have been feeling ill but he doesn’t sound suicidal. If Suicide , there’d be a body and things to find. We have a car race here called ‘"The Bathurst 500’ ( think itsm500 anyway. Whoever wins it is called ‘The King of the Mountain’. Just a fun fact from 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video. It's actually one of my favourites that I've done (maybe even the favourite), but as it's not a super famous story, people aren't aware of it and the video doesn't get as much attention. Yes, I think murder is the most likely option too.
The fact that the person who was trying to provide proof for his capture was then murdered... yes that means we didn't get his proof but that's one hell of a suspicious coincidence! I think he was captured and probably died accidentally while imprisoned and/or tortured. Since he was already in a bad state of health he may have died when his captors hadn't intended it, and suddenly they were in an awkward position that would have led to further international tensions if it came out. They placed the pantaloons as a false lead and murdered the guy who would spill the beans. The pantaloons were obviously meant to be found, even containing the letter to positively identify them as belonging to him. A robber would have no motive to stage that, he'd want any evidence gone, especially if the body was actually close by!
Amazing video!!!! Definitely don't think it was aliens or anything supernatural! LOL!!!! This honestly sounds like one of David Paulides' Missing 411 cases...which is really freaky considering I just binged both his videos last night/today. 😳 I lean most towards the nefarious townie robbing and killing him. Like you said, he really didn't try to hide his wealth in this pretty wild and unpoliced town. Which is weird considering how paranoid he was about someone recognizing him and being turned into the French.....
I wish Phillida had interviewed other prisoners in Magdeburg. That possibility seems intriguing and holds great opportunities for a cover-up. Other prisoners might have been able to confirm having seen him (or not) in that time period. Otherwise, yes, the local ruffians make a reasonable suspect. That said, why discard the pantaloons? I would think they also would have had marketable value. The pantaloons are most useful as a distraction (in my opinion) if something happened in Magdeburg.
It seems silly they're saying a pencil written note would be ruined by rain. Pencil is the most easily preserved kind of writing. Had it been any kind of ink, then it would seem those pantaloons were planted later, but the pencil written note surviving rains is no big deal.
Psychology is a funny subject. So is fear. Not haha funny, but strange. Its very possible he did take his own life, even though being so fearful of losing it. He could've been in a state of so much fear that he thought it was going to happen...that night, and decided it would be easier if he did it himself. Theres also a sense of control that comes with it. Conquering fear is about controlling it. If you fear someone will kill you, the best way to control it is to do the job yourself. You take away the control from the would be and give it to yourself. Its crazy, but psychology wasn't about studying the normal, to be fair.
Oh and despite the letters and everything, he could've feared the person who would kill him wouldn't get caught. Heck, that could've been his biggest fear, that he would be killed, and the killer wouldn't be caught. And possibly tried setting it up to frame the would be. Like he was so convinced it would happen, he took total control of the situation and tried to make sure the would be would get what he would deserve if he carried it out. Again...these things are strange.
Or...he didn't kill himself and just made it look like it. Would make sense why he wouldn't want his wife to remarry since technically she'd be living in sin.
More puzzling is *Isidore Fink*, the original locked room mystery! 1929 How Was a Man Shot to Death Inside a Locked Shop With No Gun? The windows all nailed shut on the inside, all doors found locked from the inside. Somehow a person had gained entrance into the locked apartment, murdered Fisk, and left through an exit that was not a door or a window. Remains unsolved.
It seems he would be safer if he pretended to be a lower middle class farmer from somewhere French speaking. Then they should have traveled in a cheaper manner and not flaunting his wealth and status.
I agree with your preferred conclusion that he was murdered for his obvious wealth. It is very strange, though, that someone with such renowned paranoia should go wandering off for a walk just before he's about to head off at last. My other thought is that the bloodhounds weren't up to much if a skeleton was found near the pantaloons many years later.
BB seems to have led a cosy life and got this mission by influence of his family... He must have realised that he was out of his depth and this would have explained some or all of his "paranoia"... He was in "enemy territory" and had no idea of how to deal with that challenging situation... Flashing the cash was just foolhardy... Opportunistic robbery/murder seems the obvious solution... I did wonder if the French authorities knew or had a pretty good idea of what had happened (from agents on the ground) and hoped to be cleared by helping Mrs BB...?
I eliminate him killing himself. He wanted to get home to his wife very badly. I think he was murdered and it doesn't particularly matter why or by whom.
Is there anyway they could confirm if that last skeleton that was found was him? Would there still be bone fragments which they could test for DNA, against the DNA of known descendants of Bathurst?
I would say he was murdered that evening in Nov. 1809 and the skeleton found in 1852 was his under the house. Remember back then there were no forensics so his little sister didn't know a thing. Too bad that these no longer exist to do some DNA testing on his descendants. From what we know he was tall, slender with muscular tone, handsome wirh nice smile. Another thing he should've done was learn the German and French languages since he waa a diplomat. This case is very interesting 🤔.
So, late to the party but what I will do is look for other accounts and perhaps return to answer the question as to my opinions. And certainly, subscribing. Great job, enjoyable and seemed sensible. Alright, my view. From other info, which does not differ entirely from this site's presentation. The failed identification by Bathurst's sister in 1852 of a found skeleton seems to have been inconclusive. So, I think we can say, "It is not him.", was more, "I don't know if it is him.". Let's start with the false passport, name, and lack of language skills. Then, the obvious coins and items of value that would have been apparent to many in the town. Then there were references I found that indicate Perleberg was an unsafe place. Should be clear where I am going with this. A local murder, robbery. Comments from the time regarding Bathurst's mental state are unreliable to me, as these were not people who knew him long at all. Maybe he was just a high-strung character prone to anxiety? And with concerns over suspicions being directed towards them, many of these people would benefit to say, "No, there was something wrong with the guy to begin with." This fellow is clearly in some danger, Austria has surrendered to France. He was having trouble escaping the continent. And he knows Napolean's army is not unlikely to arrest him. I think it is fair to say he should be anxious. Lastly, it appears the myth regarding paranormal events was started in 1929 or close to it when a science fiction writer penned a story based on Bathurst. A KNOWN science fiction writer. But, funny how the most preposterous idea can birth followers so well.
Anyone visiting this channel with supernatural leanings will hopefully be dissapointed. Thank you for providing purely historical and scientific content
His behaviour does resemble a psychotic break like Elisa had. It’s possibly he had a full mental break, ran off into the woods to escape his delusions, and was caught by some local criminals and killed
Napoleon was not above kidnapping and murder for reasons of state. It was one of the reasons that he was treated as an ogre by other leaders. If French agents had reason to think he had important information about some new alliance being put together by Britain, there would have been a reason to kidnap and interrogate him. He could have been murdered so France would not have to admit taking him. I don't know how many of the records of Napoleon's intelligence service survived for historians to go through. If they kidnapped, interrogated and killed a British diplomat but got no useful intelligence from him, there may not be any written records. If, for the sake of argument, Napoleon invaded Russia partly based on the interrogation of a diplomat, that intelligence would be important enough that there could be a trace of it in surviving documents. If the French got no useful intelligence, their priority would go to covering their tracks. The French agent theory is a serious one but the local thug one is still the most probable.
What do you think happened to Benjamin Bathurst? Let me know below and check out my PATREON site for extra perks at www.patreon.com/historycalling
State sponsored assassination...
Ordered by Napoleon. Which is why he personally permitted the wife and brother in law the passports to search. Because he knew she wouldn't find anything.
I'm not usually a fan of any of the unsolved history.. but this was, well, AMAZING!! More like this PLEASE!
Great video! That was an interesting story. I have 2 theories.
Theory #1. I think he faked his own death. Hear me out ( lol ). I think he figured out that there was some sort of conspiracy and who it involved and he came up with a plan to fake his own death. I also think the letter in his pocket that he wrote to her asking her not to remarry ( while probably somewhat common in that era ) was his way of trying to tell her that he wasn't dead or more likely he planned on resurfacing at a later date and didn't want to make it an even worse scandal for his wife. Tho this may be a stretch since I don't know what context it was said in and maybe further clues can be found in the rest of the letter. Then to throw off the investigation he had someone or did himself place the pants and letter near the woods. I mean the fact that they had bullet holes with no blood stains makes sense if you're on high alert I know when I'm in a high anxiety state I'm not able to think straight and wouldn't have thought " hmm, maybe I should add some blood to make it more authentic." And the fact that he had been so panicky and restless and probably afraid of being discovered makes me think this was meant to be a red herring from him that he didn't think thru. Why he never resurfaced after the danger was over? Looking at that time period, medicine wasn't that great and there were many, many ways to die back then so he could have passed away before he had the chance to.
My theory may be complete rubbish, but, for me it makes sense cuz ghosts aren't real lol.
Oh and I did have another theory but someone beat me to it lol. So sorry I should have fixed that error. 🤦♀️🤦♀️
Viewers who don't listen/watch your non-Tudor videos are missing great content! That was a very good true-crime video with just the right amount of facts vs speculation (meaning, the knocking down of non-facts) vs humor. I believe that poor Mr Bathurst was having a mental health crises made worse by his deteriorating physical health. He, in due course, trusted the wrong people in the village and ended up dead. I hope that you will do more of these historical mystery videos, they are excellent!
Thank you so much. This is actually my favourite of all the videos I've done, even though it'll never be as popular as the Tudor videos. I just found the whole story fascinating and didn't see any other videos that looked at it properly on UA-cam. It really means a lot that you watched it (especially as I know it's a long one) and took the time to comment. I'm glad you enjoyed it and I think BB was unwell too and bumped into the wrong people in the village, who then took advantage in the worst possible way. If I can get the channel to grow a bit more to give me a better income from it, I'll do some more videos like this that aren't going to be as popular, but which will be a bit different. Much as I love the Tudors, they are a bit repetitive for me, but what can I say, they bring in the views and subs!
@@HistoryCalling oh I think you'd find an audience for the longer, stranger historical events. Being home a lot more in the past year or so from world event has really got me hooked on historical channels and mystery stories. Apparently quite a lot of Tudor ones to tap, like the stairwell one. Sooooo so much to learn about. Thank you for a brilliant channel.
I appreciate your non Tudor videos. Messy three monarchs.
@@HistoryCalling you were made for this genre, though. If you co tinue with it, mark my words, your channel will explode even more. Remember me? I'm the one who told you long ago to take a screen shot of my comment because you were gonna get big. That was not so long ago and look at you now!!! I hope you do more of these. You're so good at this.
I saw this video mentioned in your last newsletter. I’m so glad that I decided to watch and what a great “who done it”. I’m in the USA and find your content interesting and so enjoyable to watch.
Fascinating story. Thanks for explaining it so thoroughly. Bathurst seemed to be suffering from some mental health problem (maybe a psychotic break definitely terrible anxiety and paranoia) and while people suffering from fear and paranoia are more likely to harm themselves (deliberately and accidentally) they're also more likely to be harmed by third parties. The clincher here seem to be the trousers. The trousers make NO sense, neither if he killed himself nor if he was murdered. Fascinating.
Thanks! I have had a deep love of history since I was a small child thanks to my Dad. I truly love your channel.
THANK YOU so much for your kind donation and words. I'm delighted you love the channel. :-)
As soon as you said he flashed his fancy watch and bling bling in the common room, I knew it was a robbery/murder. When they found their cloaks in the hands of thieves, that clinched it.
Just found your channel and binged. Great education. You have a Brilliant voice for narration & teaching. Looking forward to new videos.
Thank you so much and welcome to the channel :-)
Me too
It’s Occam’s razor “The simplest explanation is usually the best one”. The most likely explanation is that he was robbed and killed in the locality. I mean, he was wearing a diamond broach, a hugely valuable fur coat with ‘violet’ lining, an expensive pocket watch and carrying an excessive amount of money that he took no care to hide !! He would’ve stuck out like a sore thumb - the perfect victim. He was so preoccupied with his arrival back in England and the subsequent loss of his job, that even carrying two pistols wouldn’t have helped him fend off a gang of local thieves, who then robbed and murdered him. I find it highly circumspect that his fur coat was found in the possession of a local thief and his mother along with his travelling companion’s coat, and I suspect that they either had his other valuables stashed away or had already begun selling them. They probably should’ve been arrested and their house searched, as well as known pawn dealers questioned in an attempt to locate the missing items. It was most likely murder committed during a robbery, so essentially aggravated murder in today’s laws. I don’t believe he ever left and is most likely one of the skeletons found buried outside the town….
"cuz, y'know, there was no TV back then and kids had to make their own fun." 🤣
"because kids had to make their own fun" I laughed at that.. thanks for the fun video
Haha, you're very welcome. I felt like I really had to call that out, cause honestly, what kind of little terrors would go playing with human remains!
Had never heard of this case! Quite interesting. I agree with you: murder is the likeliest scenario and it was probably local. Or his traveling companion poisoned him slowly during the voyage, provoking his mental deterioration and eventual death. Just saying. 😉
Yes, it's a bizarre case but perhaps doesn't get as much press as some other famous disappearances, even though I think it ranks as one of the strangest. Poison from one of his companions is certainly a possibility.
If he thought he was being followed and scared for his life, why would he go for a walk on his own?
agreed, seems like a ploy. My first instinct was faking death/new identity.....or maybe he was just wasted *shrugs*
We also have to look at what source said he went for a walk. Is it the testimony of one person? Or is it collaborated? One can easily lie or mistake someone else for him. I didn’t hear who gave this evidence however, I was filling out paperwork at my job at the time I was listening lol
I have now officially watch all of your videos which leads me to the question of what I will do to tide myself over between Fridays in the future. 😃 As to this video, I vote for the 1852 skeleton. Oh, and, Merry Christmas, though it's Boxing Day over there by now. 🎄
Fascinating stuff. I love your videos, both the royalty ones and the mystery ones. I know you probably have a huge pile of videos to make, but one that might interest you is a mysterious disappearance of four schoolgirls and a teacher in 1900 in Australia, at Hanging Rock while on a school picnic. It’s never been solved.
The author of Picnic at Hanging Rock, Joan Lindsay, admitted this is a fictional story.
Thanks!
THANK YOU for such a kind donation to the channel jldisme and for watching one of the older, less popular videos (which actually happens to be my favourite one that I've done so far!)
I had heard of the man, but never his story. Thank you! Always willing to listen to the history that you share, it's so very well done!
This video was fabulous. Such fun, and interesting.
I can't get enough of your videos. Wonderful content!
Thank you. Glad you like them. :-)
There is an alarming amount of similar cases to this even in present time. Someone gets increasingly more paranoid and just disappears without a trace.
Great entry in your wonderful series! I'm glad I finally got around to watching it. I'm a big fan of true crime; I think this qualifies. Your research is presented so well and avoids the sensationalism that one encounters so often on broadcasts here in the States. Thanks for another brilliant presentation.
Thanks Stephen :-)
I listen to your channel while I sew. You're so extremely talented
It's not very important amongst other details given, but I was interested in the story that Benjamin, apologised to his companion for the accusations of untrustworthy behaviour, having gone so far as saying Krause was plotting his death.
After apologising, and saying he knew it wasn't true,v"He slept for about two hours, clasping the other man's hand". Was this an example of how Benjamin now trusted in the other? Or of how affectionate the relationship was then? I wondered if instead it was to guarantee Klaus couldn't move away to get weapons or consult with henchmen or paid assassins. Think about the trope of a kidnapping victim being tied to their kidnapper.
We can never know the answer, and that answer would be of immense value determining Benjamin's subsequent actions.
always a pleasure to view your content.. had never heard of this story. Admittedly very interesting since your research, and impeccably simple-to follow narration makes it all the more enjoyable viewing...keep up the good work
fascinating! Talk about cold case!
I wonder what he had said to upset Canning, and what Canning's response was. Do these letters exist still? What can be learned from them? Where would investigations go if we got access to them?
18:20 Methinks t'was The Black Adder Omnibus that really fell through the worm hole and Benjamin got in the unmentionables while trying to actually invent self removing trousers before the French did.
(In this timeline, it was Prince George who was as happy as a Frenchman who had invented self removing trousers. Perhaps Ben was literal minded).
Kids haven't changed. A friend's daughter who's 8, was absolutely delighted when she found a ram skull, huge with horns and moss growing out the eye sockets. There were random vertebrae nearby but not with a sheep shaped layout, so the idea of a self exploding sheep really kept her amused.
Very good thank you
I've never heard of this case before..but Thank you for posting it.
To me it makes sense that someone took his life...he was really concerned about being followed..about being poisoned..Maybe he had good reason for believing this.
It's unsettling to think you've got an almost invisible foe.
And thank you for watching one of my older videos. This one also happens to be my favourite of the videos I've done so far.
Very enjoyable video. What an intriguing story. So many possibilities of what may have happened to this gentleman.
Thank you for another informative, concise and most interesting presentation. If I may also say your accent is a delight!🙂
Lovely to hear a consise retelling of this event. I reposted it to a channel that was sensationalising it abit. Murder was So easily done in those days.
I loved this complicated tale of cloak and dagger! It was so complex I’ll admit I couldn’t follow it. But I will say, as a police captain’s wife, that, as high profile as he was, still in that time it would have been quite easy to dispose of a body under dark of night and with no real forensic detection able to be done by local or regional police as the science didn’t yet exist. So, adios Bathurst. I don’t see why his killer would deliberately place the underwear (or bloomers or whatever they were) in the woods, and even less why he’d leave the note in the pocket. You’d think he’d burn what clothing he didn’t sell. I do love the name Phillida as a shortening of Philadelphia! Finally, as always, your voice as narrator is terrific. All your lectures are fascinating but the ones involving heavy foul play are even more intriguing. Please make more as I’ve now watched them all!
Thanks Eugenia. I'm currently working on the biggest foul play story of them all, the Princes in the Tower! Look out for that one in a few weeks time :-)
@@HistoryCalling Excellent video, and you do your research. I think it highly likely that some one realised he was of some standing, and took an axe to him. His money and any other valuables were stolen, and he was buried in the wood. Its often the most complicated cases that have a simple explanation.
Call Father Brown. What I find intriguing is Napoleon giving his widow and brother in-law passage.
Thank you for doing this
Thank you. This video took absolutely AGES to do!
Inclined to think the first body discovered was Bathurst. The whole "nothing to see here" stance of the authorities seems like they didn't want the incident brought up again.
That was my feeling too.... very Roswell.
Hmmm… I don’t think so- I am inclined to the third. I believe that “nothing to see here” wasn’t related to the Bathurst disappearance- maybe to something else the authorities had something to do with- I see no reason for them to try to hide it years after given that they had been quite helpful im 1809/10…
@@lfgifu296 I agree. The authorities might have been embarrassed by the state of chaos their country were in.
Thank you for the amazing research into this case. My thoughts are that the simple answer is sometimes the right answer. 😀 he would have been a perfect target for a local robber.. the third body you mentioned regardless of size seems very suspicious..
Thank you so much. It took absolutely ages to put this one together (really started to wonder if I've bitten off more than I could chew about half way through) so I'm particularly proud of it. Yes, that third body found near the place where his trousers turned up was mighty suspicious.
I agree. He was nervous, not feeling well, acting odd and very well dressed. Add this to him being a stranger in the town, I suspect he was followed by some never do wells who wanted to rob him. He may have been murdered deliberately or accidentally killed during an attempted robbery. I don't get the feeling that he harmed himself as in that scenario some thing of him (aside from his pantaloons and letter) should have been discovered.
Your videos are wonderful. I am enjoying them thoroughly. What country are you from? You sound like you are English but you pronounce certain words that have a lilt to them that sounds more Irish to me. I'm dying to know. 😇
i 2nd that
Love your channel!
Thank you so much!
I had never heard of this incident, fascinating. We should never forget he was an actual living person, and died very young. It seems the skeleton found in 1910 not far from the site where the pantaloons were discovered is compelling. I don’t understand it being possibly ruled out because Benjamin was considered a “slight man“ and the skeleton was too large. How can a skeleton reveal if someone is “slight“ or otherwise? If Benjamin was 6 feet tall then the skeleton could appear to be large, whether or not the person were of a slender or stocky build.
I believe the heavier a person is, then more dense their bones. So weight can be determined with just the skeleton. A slender man would have less dense bones than a heavier one due to the lighter load on them during life.
Muscles and tendons attach to bones and those attachments leave marks on the bones- the heavier and stronger the musculature of a person, the higher the mass of the bones and the more pronounced those markings are. Heavy bone mass and pronounced musculature attachments are indicative of someone who was heavily built.
Great job!! Excellent research.
Thank you!
Thank you.
I love your channel! So many great topics. I find it very odd that Bathurst dismissed the guards before he departed since he was so concerned. I think it was the French.
Yes, his behaviour was very strange. I don't think he was well, but I also don't think he harmed himself. A lot of people suspected the French of involvement. I'm glad you're enjoying the channel. Many thanks for watching and commenting.
Fascinating!
Thank you :-) Glad you enjoyed it.
Most of the testimony about his last hours was given by a Krause. I find it weird that someone who was paranoid and thought someone was going to kill him would dismiss his guards and walk alone down a lonely lane away from the people he knew.
Bathurst was probably kidnapped and killed by disreputable people; since he was dressed expensively, and had an expensive pocket watch, he could well have been robbed & slain. In other words, he most likely met with foul play. Thanks for providing a more detailed background about the circumstances leading up to his disappearance. Like your Scottish accent! 😊🏴🇬🇧
I'd never heard this story but as soon as I heard"diamond broach" my ears pricked up. Coupled with his making little attempt to conceal his wealth I thought ,that's dangerous. I lean toward the simplest answer. He was robbed and was probably one of the skeletons found. I'd say the last one mentioned.
The curious case of Benjamin Button was even more curious, fiction though it is. For someone who was so concerned about his safety, Bathurst certainly flaunted his possessions and took unnecessary risks. Maybe his mind was on conspiracy theories and not the most likely dangers. I think he was a bit off his marbles and some common crooks found him to be an easy target as a result. Wrong place, wrong time. Oh, and I love the background music you chose for this. Beautiful and ominous.
I agree. Ignorance kills.
I've been following the channel for years and somehow missed this one along the way...
I think that he rather clumsily attempted to fake his own death because he could not take his job any longer. He seemed quite ill suited for it.
Checking his watch, dismissing the guards, "going for a walk"... I think that he deliberately flashed his money and that the pantaloons were a red herring.
He may have trusted the wrong person to spirit him away in a shipment of goods, trying to make a clean break. I don't think it would have been someone who remained in the town because it would be very difficult to keep the plans and the aftermath secret.
The conspirator wasn't satisfied with whatever agreement had been made and killed him somewhere along the way. I don't think that any of the local skeletons are him.
Or his plan might have succeeded and he joined the circus 😊.
That was a long video but excellent to watch, iv never heard of this case before, it would seem like he was murderd, they item they found in the forest was planted to mislead any searching party, it certainly is a baffling case, you came up with a real gem thank you for your painstaking research and sharing.
Yes, it took AGES to put together. I started to lose the will to go on after a while, but I'm glad I persevered. It's one of my favourite videos, even though it'll never be as popular as the Tudor stuff. Glad you liked it :-)
@@HistoryCalling you put a lot of hard work in producing the video, so in depth and narrated, I love all history, it makes a change from Tudor history I'm glad you do other stuff, 😊
@@HistoryCalling I do agree Tudor history is very popular, there is not enough of Stuart history or the plantagenets, or other dynasties, you have a passion for history, as you say keep Learning 😊👍
His age & increasing paranoia it is possible he was becoming schizophrenic. Could he have walked far enough, or gotten a ride, and died further away than the original search area? He didn't seem well suited for that line of work.
My sister was behaving in a similar manner when she developed paranoid schizophrenia, she made several attempts to run away from the hospital and hide somewhere, anywhere, without money or shelter.
Make more of these
I love your channel!💚💜💙
Thank you :-)
I like the heavy sigh when presenting the supernatural theory. I tend to have the same reaction.
It hast to have bern murder. With your fabulous investigative documentary the skeleton under the kitchen floor is a contender. Thank you for such an interesting report.
Hi Bonnie, you're very welcome. I'm glad you like it. Yes, the body under the floor is indeed a good contender.
@@HistoryCalling It would be interesting to know if the skeletens had strikes at the back of the skull?after all he did have pistals. maybe his assaliants were aware of this and decided against a full frontal attack?
I really like you channel. Learned quite a bit since I've started watching. I've always been something of a history nut. But mostly American history, as British and European history seemed so far off. Plus I think the teachers of the time of my primary and secondary grades were not really equipped to teach it with the justice it deserved. But thank you and please keep them coming.
Thanks Brad :-) Next week's video is on an episode in American history.
This could be a Missing 411 case except for the nefarious characters surrounding the immediate disappearance. You definetly weaved a mysterious tale here. Ponderous. Thanks for bringing us another great chapter in history. Lvya
Thank you (and thank you for watching and commenting on some of my lesser known videos - I'm just scanning down some recent comments at the moment and I can see your name popping up a few times. Most people won't watch anything that isn't Tudor related!)
I had never heard of this case until I saw another channel mention it. His traveling companions may have killed him because he was driving them crazy. Probably robbery was the motive. He didn't seem well suited to his position.
Ten minutes in and I finally realised this is not the Audible for Benjamin Button.
A most unsettling case indeed… I have watched it many times but for some reason never commented. Personally I agree with you that someone else did it- a robber or simply a killer- but they’re still holes in the theory… I can’t think of why he would dismiss the guards and go for a walk- it baffles me! About the skull in 1852 that his sister said wasn’t him, there had been many years since 1809, wouldn’t it be quite deteriorated by then? Did she say it wasn’t him because of the skull structure? This is all so confusing! The only thing I disagree with is the order you give the theories- for me the suicide theory is less likely than the runaway, though it doesn’t really matter as both are highly unlikely.
Great video!! Surely one of my favourite!
Personally, I think that it is most likely that he was killed in a robbery.
Though, I’m still open to the idea that it was Napoleon. As he could have given the robbers the items or had them kill him to cover it up.
May he rest in peace.
Oh how I miss the days of my youth and picking apart random skeletons with my friends.....those were the days.
It sounds to me as if he had some kind of episode, wandered off and was robbed and murdered by local criminals.
Yes, I think murder by locals is the most likely explanation too.
“... Possibly through a wormhole or a tear in the space-time continuum...”...obviously 😂😂😂
I know. We laugh, but there are people who seriously believe that. It's worrying.
@@HistoryCalling Unfortunately, the very nature of the scientific method means we’ll never be able to present information with the same level of certainty as some of these ‘theories’. Lol, even basic concepts like ‘gravity’ need to be presented as a theory presently under contention, so there’s almost zero chance scientific enquiry can offer the doubt-free guarantee some people desire. Absolute cudos though for being able to hold a steady tone of voice whilst saying that line out loud, I don’t think I’d be able to do it without giggling the whole way through 😹
The Doctor has never admitted to whisking him away, but...😂
I rule out local robber because if his clothes were expensive-and they were -they would have been sold by someone. Used clothing was a big market back then and nice things worth big bucks. But also if the widow was paying a reward that big-locals will spill the beans on each other as she said. Military will keep quiet under orders.
Hahaha! I LOVE your "sigh" at super natural forces.
The text you quoted in connection with the very first "supernatural" theory (something like it's as if the earth has opened) is actually a pretty common figure of speech in German and just describes the mysterious disappaerance without clues of what happened. The other "supernatural" quote made about turning at the head of the horse reads similarly to me, just a figure of speech to describe he was last seen close to the horses and presumably turned around a corner or similar so he was out of sight of the person this account comes from and thus vanished without a trace. Not supernatural at all, just somewhat flowery descriptions.
I think most likely is that someone local saw him handling a lot of money and other valuables and also realized in his unstable appearance he would be overcome easily and quietly. In other words, an easy victim for someone unscrupulous. I wouldn't want to speculate which of the three skeletons, if any, was his. Also, there is still the issue of his pantalons which appeared sometime after that evening, if I understood the video right. I don't quite believe someone would deposit a body and place the clothes relatively close by - or if somebody tried this stunt, that the body would remain undiscovered for a century. If nobody else, surely the local children would have combed the woods nearby in the hopes of some entertainment.
Hi Diana, I completely agree there was nothing supernatural about it, nor do I really see anything 'supernatural' in the quotes myself. My point was more that other people have used these quotes to build up a lot of silly stories around what happened to him. Like you, I think some dodgy locals were probably to blame. Many thanks for watching.
I’m in Australia and the phrase “ the earth opened up and swallowed them “ is very common. Well, for my generation and prior. I hadn’t heard the other one you quoted though. Always interesting to hear about different sayings 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Yes, the "as if the ground had swallowed him" expression is still used pretty much every time there's a missing persons case in Germany or other German language countries.
Wow, somehow I skipped this video when I had discovered this channel. While I agree that the most likely possibility is that he was killed, I have some things to say if we consider thar the skeleton in the woods is him: 1) it is very hard to dig a grave in the woods as there are tree roots, so the killers had to dig it earlier during the day; 2) the sceleton was found in 1910 so it had not been disturbed by animals, so the grave must have been very deep which makes the task of digging it even more difficult; 3) freshly dug graves are usually very easy to spot so if they indeed buried him there, they had to wait after the search. And why did they put his pants WITH a letter? I also wonder if it is possible that some parts of the sceleton still rermains and if with modern DNA technology can the mystery be solved.
Excellent!
what you forget about the captured ambassadors is that the ones released were caught with their papers but he had burnt his so they only way they could have found out what was in them was questioning or torture. What does seem strange to me is that he was in such a rush to leave but nobody wondered why he would walk off. He may have been going to meet someone though as you mention he kept looking at his watch, maybe it was not because of how long it was taking to pack but to leave for a meeting.
This! Also the fact that the person who was trying to provide proof for his capture was then murdered... yes that means we didn't get his proof but that's one hell of a suspicious coincidence! I think he was captured and probably died accidentally while imprisoned and/or tortured. Since he was already in a bad state of health he may have died when his captors hadn't intended it, and suddenly they were in an awkward position that would have led to further international tensions if it came out. They placed the pantaloons as a false lead and murdered the guy who would spill the beans. The pantaloons were obviously meant to be found, even containing the letter to positively identify them as belonging to him. A robber would have no motive to stage that, he'd want any evidence gone, especially if the body was actually close by!
@@Felsenkeks I think you may well be onto something. The deliberate placing of the trousers was definitely a message to someone. But Who?And who left it? A Random killer would want to hide his crime ,not advertise it 3 weeks later!
I first read this case when I was a little boy, and now, looking back at it after I’ve grown up, I could just laugh at the little me who suspected Napoleon to have played a hand (not Napoleon’s and especially not Fouche’s style at all). Benjamin was ignorant of the threats that his actions posed. Maybe he was too paranoid knowing what happened to the Duke of Enghien 5 years before this.
Thank you so much for your hard work. Time consuming for you but greatly appreciated by us. I’d not heard of this disappearance before. Very interesting. I feel that that he was murdered. He would have stood out like a sore thumb in the town, as a reasonably well to do gent and a foreigner. Or it was a state sanctioned affair. If it was a State sanctioned deed, I feel they would have disposed of the body and covered their tracks much better whilst leaving the pantaloons seems to be a more amateurish endeavour . I’d go ‘ death by misadventure’. Isn’t that what they say when they thinks it’s murder but can’t prove it. He may have been feeling ill but he doesn’t sound suicidal. If Suicide , there’d be a body and things to find. We have a car race here called ‘"The Bathurst 500’ ( think itsm500 anyway. Whoever wins it is called ‘The King of the Mountain’. Just a fun fact from 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Thanks, I'm glad you liked the video. It's actually one of my favourites that I've done (maybe even the favourite), but as it's not a super famous story, people aren't aware of it and the video doesn't get as much attention. Yes, I think murder is the most likely option too.
The fact that the person who was trying to provide proof for his capture was then murdered... yes that means we didn't get his proof but that's one hell of a suspicious coincidence! I think he was captured and probably died accidentally while imprisoned and/or tortured. Since he was already in a bad state of health he may have died when his captors hadn't intended it, and suddenly they were in an awkward position that would have led to further international tensions if it came out. They placed the pantaloons as a false lead and murdered the guy who would spill the beans.
The pantaloons were obviously meant to be found, even containing the letter to positively identify them as belonging to him. A robber would have no motive to stage that, he'd want any evidence gone, especially if the body was actually close by!
I agree with you!
He flashed his watch and fortune in public and was murdered for it
Killed by local criminals, I agree, did the deed! Enjoyed, thank you very much!
*sigh.... You are my new heroine!!!
Oh wow...the rest of the song!! lol
Yup, it's the only video where you hear more of it :-)
Amazing video!!!! Definitely don't think it was aliens or anything supernatural! LOL!!!! This honestly sounds like one of David Paulides' Missing 411 cases...which is really freaky considering I just binged both his videos last night/today. 😳 I lean most towards the nefarious townie robbing and killing him. Like you said, he really didn't try to hide his wealth in this pretty wild and unpoliced town. Which is weird considering how paranoid he was about someone recognizing him and being turned into the French.....
I wish Phillida had interviewed other prisoners in Magdeburg. That possibility seems intriguing and holds great opportunities for a cover-up. Other prisoners might have been able to confirm having seen him (or not) in that time period. Otherwise, yes, the local ruffians make a reasonable suspect. That said, why discard the pantaloons? I would think they also would have had marketable value. The pantaloons are most useful as a distraction (in my opinion) if something happened in Magdeburg.
The discarded pantaloons are an odd little addition to the story aren't they? Then again, the whole thing is very strange.
It seems silly they're saying a pencil written note would be ruined by rain. Pencil is the most easily preserved kind of writing. Had it been any kind of ink, then it would seem those pantaloons were planted later, but the pencil written note surviving rains is no big deal.
Psychology is a funny subject. So is fear. Not haha funny, but strange. Its very possible he did take his own life, even though being so fearful of losing it. He could've been in a state of so much fear that he thought it was going to happen...that night, and decided it would be easier if he did it himself. Theres also a sense of control that comes with it. Conquering fear is about controlling it. If you fear someone will kill you, the best way to control it is to do the job yourself. You take away the control from the would be and give it to yourself. Its crazy, but psychology wasn't about studying the normal, to be fair.
Oh and despite the letters and everything, he could've feared the person who would kill him wouldn't get caught. Heck, that could've been his biggest fear, that he would be killed, and the killer wouldn't be caught. And possibly tried setting it up to frame the would be. Like he was so convinced it would happen, he took total control of the situation and tried to make sure the would be would get what he would deserve if he carried it out. Again...these things are strange.
Or...he didn't kill himself and just made it look like it. Would make sense why he wouldn't want his wife to remarry since technically she'd be living in sin.
More puzzling is *Isidore Fink*, the original locked room mystery! 1929
How Was a Man Shot to Death Inside a Locked Shop With No Gun?
The windows all nailed shut on the inside, all doors found locked from the inside.
Somehow a person had gained entrance into the locked apartment, murdered Fisk, and left through an exit that was not a door or a window. Remains unsolved.
It seems he would be safer if he pretended to be a lower middle class farmer from somewhere French speaking. Then they should have traveled in a cheaper manner and not flaunting his wealth and status.
*Ryan Bergara voice*: "Aliens."
Utterly fascinating however it is slightly marred by silly photographs, especially the denim jeans when talking about Bathurst’s pantaloons
Love how the old girl died due to climbing a tree for nuts! 🤣
Nonetheless, my Irish great aunties died at 99 and 104.
I have my doubts that that's really how the Countess of Desmond died to be honest, but it is a great story. Those are some great genes you've got too!
I agree with your preferred conclusion that he was murdered for his obvious wealth. It is very strange, though, that someone with such renowned paranoia should go wandering off for a walk just before he's about to head off at last. My other thought is that the bloodhounds weren't up to much if a skeleton was found near the pantaloons many years later.
I think he was murdered. Although I question whether his mental health had something to do with his demise.
BB seems to have led a cosy life and got this mission by influence of his family... He must have realised that he was out of his depth and this would have explained some or all of his "paranoia"... He was in "enemy territory" and had no idea of how to deal with that challenging situation... Flashing the cash was just foolhardy... Opportunistic robbery/murder seems the obvious solution... I did wonder if the French authorities knew or had a pretty good idea of what had happened (from agents on the ground) and hoped to be cleared by helping Mrs BB...?
I eliminate him killing himself. He wanted to get home to his wife very badly. I think he was murdered and it doesn't particularly matter why or by whom.
If I was him I’d want to know who did me in! I’d want to haunt the ...... criminals 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺
Writing a book, can you share your sources?
Is there anyway they could confirm if that last skeleton that was found was him? Would there still be bone fragments which they could test for DNA, against the DNA of known descendants of Bathurst?
Are the pantaloons Levi 501 ? 12:30
I would say he was murdered that evening in Nov. 1809 and the skeleton found in 1852 was his under the house. Remember back then there were no forensics so his little sister didn't know a thing. Too bad that these no longer exist to do some DNA testing on his descendants. From what we know he was tall, slender with muscular tone, handsome wirh nice smile. Another thing he should've done was learn the German and French languages since he waa a diplomat. This case is very interesting 🤔.
So, late to the party but what I will do is look for other accounts and perhaps return to answer the question as to my opinions. And certainly, subscribing. Great job, enjoyable and seemed sensible. Alright, my view. From other info, which does not differ entirely from this site's presentation. The failed identification by Bathurst's sister in 1852 of a found skeleton seems to have been inconclusive. So, I think we can say, "It is not him.", was more, "I don't know if it is him.".
Let's start with the false passport, name, and lack of language skills. Then, the obvious coins and items of value that would have been apparent to many in the town. Then there were references I found that indicate Perleberg was an unsafe place. Should be clear where I am going with this. A local murder, robbery.
Comments from the time regarding Bathurst's mental state are unreliable to me, as these were not people who knew him long at all. Maybe he was just a high-strung character prone to anxiety? And with concerns over suspicions being directed towards them, many of these people would benefit to say, "No, there was something wrong with the guy to begin with." This fellow is clearly in some danger, Austria has surrendered to France. He was having trouble escaping the continent. And he knows Napolean's army is not unlikely to arrest him. I think it is fair to say he should be anxious.
Lastly, it appears the myth regarding paranormal events was started in 1929 or close to it when a science fiction writer penned a story based on Bathurst. A KNOWN science fiction writer. But, funny how the most preposterous idea can birth followers so well.
Reminds me of the risk of Bill and Ted
Unfortunatley nepotism still mostly exists in the corporate world and government 😞
Uh... they had riveted blue jeans in 1809?
Those are in remarkably good shape. I guess they don't make them like they used to.
Anyone visiting this channel with supernatural leanings will hopefully be dissapointed. Thank you for providing purely historical and scientific content
There are a few possibilities here. I doubt anyone will ever find out the whole truth.
probably Kermit, boi looking like he'd be a kermit fan
His behavior reminded me of Elisa Lam's. I wonder if he met a similar fate (after taking off his trousers for some reason).
His behaviour does resemble a psychotic break like Elisa had. It’s possibly he had a full mental break, ran off into the woods to escape his delusions, and was caught by some local criminals and killed
Napoleon was not above kidnapping and murder for reasons of state. It was one of the reasons that he was treated as an ogre by other leaders. If French agents had reason to think he had important information about some new alliance being put together by Britain, there would have been a reason to kidnap and interrogate him. He could have been murdered so France would not have to admit taking him.
I don't know how many of the records of Napoleon's intelligence service survived for historians to go through. If they kidnapped, interrogated and killed a British diplomat but got no useful intelligence from him, there may not be any written records. If, for the sake of argument, Napoleon invaded Russia partly based on the interrogation of a diplomat, that intelligence would be important enough that there could be a trace of it in surviving documents. If the French got no useful intelligence, their priority would go to covering their tracks. The French agent theory is a serious one but the local thug one is still the most probable.
Could be true... 😊
Even today, if you want to find the dregs of local society head to the bus or train station.
I think the local criminals are the best choice. Just my opinion. Personal belongings of Bathurst should have surfaced somewhere.