The Doctor Falls - Take Two Doctor Who Review
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- Опубліковано 3 жов 2024
- The time has come for the final episode of Doctor Who Series 10. Showrunner Steven Moffat pulls out all the stops, giving audiences Michelle Gomez as Missy playing off of John Simm as the Master, the fate of Pearl Mackie as Bill Potts, Matt Lucas as Nardole along for the ride, and at the center of it all Peter Capaldi as the 12th Doctor.
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"I'm gonna name a town after you, A really rubbish one" An eloquent and sassy way of saying. "I am done with you and all your BS, You frustrate me and annoy me and I don't wanna deal with you anymore. But I still utterly respect you and love you deep down" One of the best lines given to Nardole. Brilliant parting words.
i realize it's pretty off topic but do anyone know of a good site to watch new tv shows online ?
@Kalel Ezequiel flixportal =)
@Bowen Darius Thanks, I went there and it seems to work =) I really appreciate it!!
@Kalel Ezequiel No problem :)
I love when John simm master specifies that “this face didn’t listen to a word you just said” because it’s true, but he did listen, only a few regenerations later.
This story sums up Peter Capaldi's Doctor so well. To me, he is the ultimate incarnation of the Doctor, embodying everything the Doctor has ever been and yet still brings across his own style. The speech he delivers was written for HIM, and, like 'Heaven Sent', there are only a few Doctors who could have articulated a speech like this so well with no music, and he's one of them. He’s not showing off, he’s just asking his old friend(s) for help and desperately trying to find the good in them, and Capaldi delivers his best performance. If David Tennant and Matt Smith felt like Doctors you could become best pals with, Capaldi's felt like a Doctor you could look up to and respect as a hero.
You've seen the light. The Doctor Falls is better than World Enough and Time.
Yesssssssss!
@@secondeye1574 classic era?
@@secondeye1574 Chipnall 😂
That’s his name nkw
Okay how sure actually that all these decisions made were Chibnall's?
It so is! World enough and time is bloody brilliant, but the doctor falls is the epitome of new who.
I initially bucked against Bill's "I usually like girls," line purely because I read it as implying the Doctor was her one exception, which is unnecessary. But revisiting it, I realized that it's her reaffirming how open she is and has been with him. She never was in the closet to him, and that's beautiful
I think this was really nicely shown in one of the monk trilogy episode where the doctor encourages her to call her crush
I always interpreted that as Bill's way of telling the Doctor to regenerate into a younger woman...
I always knew it couldn't be that bc she's so much younger and lesbian, but I didn't know what it was. Now I do, that is beautiful
I thought it was that too, but I was also thinking that maybe the reason why that's my immediate thought is because I'm still harboring a bit of skepticism towards Moffat in his writing of women and men when they talk about women. When I watch his episodes I'm always kind of sensitive to that stuff because I've been so bothered by some of his writing in the past.
Yeah, it’s a nice small scene of reclaiming what little identity you have left, especially when it’s one people strip away and demonise time and time again. She holds on to her queerness.
I've always really loved comparing Twelve's "I'm not trying to win," with Ten's "We're fighting time itself. And I'm gonna win!" from Waters of Mars. I feel like Ten and Twelve are such different Doctors and Twelve's arc is so well done. I also love the parallels to Twelve's ultimate death saving Bill and Nardole and the whole ship to Davros's line in Witch's Familiar "Compassion" "It will kill you in the end."
Granted 12 had his Waters of Mars moment with Hell Bent
@@Ben-vf5gk In fairness to Capaldi’s Doctor in Hell Bent, the Doctor has been established to go all out for his companions. Davison’s most memorable moment as the Doctor is arguably his “I won’t let you stop me now” cliffhanger line. My issue with Tennant’s Doctor in Waters of Mars (and this is arguably the point, I imagine) is that he’s all about ego. He doesn’t have a personal connection to the people he’s saving. He’s just doing it. The “I’ve saved little people but never anyone this important” comment is chilling.
@@TheBlackSaint Yep but 12 with Clara is less heroics and more toxic patriarchal tendencies.
I feel like Ten and Twelve's arc are polar opposites of each other. Ten starts off cocky and self-assured, an arrogant yet ultimately heroic figure, and over the course of his tenure we see that arrogance come back to bite him time and time again, which is taken to its logical conclusion with the Time Lord Victorious. On the other hand, Twelve starts of insecure and unsure of himself, with a lot of early actions that could be considered borderline villainous, and he ends his life as the most heroic version of himself possible - a man who's willing to lay down his life to protect a group of people he barely knows, with a plan that might not even work, simply because it's the right thing to do
Those two are my favorite Doctors, and I think it's because they both have fantastic character arcs (though obviously Twelve's is more prominent). One is so assured in who he is that he gets more and more egotistical until he realizes what he's become and willingly sacrifices himself to save someone, the other starts off having no idea who he is and slowly comes to terms with what he represents in the "It's kind" speech!
I used the "Just be kind" speech for a high school project where we had to dissect speeches.
This is my favourite Capaldi episode other than Heaven Sent. I absolutely adore it as it demonstrates all of the reason why Moffat is my personal favourite show runner.
World Enough and Time and The Doctor Falls were some of Capaldi's greatest episodes. Amazing ending for Bill. Bill going away with Heather. The two masters were brilliant. One against the Doctor and one wanting to side with him.
To me it feels more like she is kind of saying she loves the Doctor. Like, she doesn't want to say it, but the way she starts that sentence it feels like she's leading up to "But you are one guy I love". And not like a sexual love, not like a romantic love, just like this deep connection. She will remember him forever, and have warm feelings for him, and all that stuff.
It's touching to me.
And also I enjoy when someone actually shows that sexuality isn't like some freaking preset, it's a spectrum. No one is 100% straight, no one is 100% gay. At the same time, it's good that they didn't straight up have Bill have romantic feelings for the Doctor, because that would be just counterproductive to the representation. This is subtle, and nice, and cleverly written, and gives me comfort.
I wouldn't want her attracted to the doctor at all, that'd just push the whole 'you need to find the right man' narrative
I've always taken the "You know how I'm normally into" line as Bill's way of saying "I love you" to The Doctor, simply because it acts as both a friendly windup after The Doctor's "Well if there's anything that needs saying" line, but is also the most platonic way she could say "I love you and you're my best friend" in a way that naturally suits their dynamic.
But I really like you're reading of he reaffirming her identity one last time before she dies, that's genuinely a beautiful look at the writing.
Honestly the line of Bill reafirming her sexuality, at worst I just figured it was a jab at the at that point VERY tired trope of the companions falling in love with the Doctor. Glad you got this interpretation from it though, that feels true to their intentions and really makes the episode all the greater.
It just occurred to me about the Master being on the Mondasian ship only to later run into the Doctor (and Missy), MAYBE the Master's TARDIS knew it was malfunctioning (or about to malfunction), so it brought the Master somewhere it knew he'd run into the Doctor eventually, because the Doctor would (likely) not leave him stranded there.
Sort of like the Doctor's TARDIS bringing him 'not where he wanted to go, but where he needed to go'.
Hmm. I'd never thought of that before, but I like it.
In the Matt Smith comics it's said TARDIS' will completely divert course too avoid paradoxes
Moreover so very close to a black hole as a power source, everything is possible and the Tardis knows that.
Alternate theory, he arrived a few "days" before the doctor, but then black hole time dilation made him wait a lil longer
Ironically enough Big Finish solved the Missy Conundrum BEFORE Sacha Dawhan appeared
With a certain story in missy 2, im surprised that bbc let them
Spoiler!!!
@@rowanc88 well no i said the story tackles the issue, i didn't exactly say how
@@rowanc88 fixed it to be more vague
I see that the Master and Missy laughing at dying, is because the character spent so long doing everything in their power to not die. So now that they are actually dying and by their own hand is ironic. You meet destiny on the road you take to avoid it.
Finest finale of all time. _It's not just one refined diamond of a story, it's five._
In the previous episode, Simm says "You wouldn't be so self destructive. Neither would I." In this episode, Gomez stabs Simm then he shoots her to prevent his future self from helping The Doctor. Simm truly was a psychotic Master, and sadly The Doctor never found out that Missy was going to stand with him/be his friend again. Oh, and while some people don't consider her a Companion, I do and feel she's in the Top 5 Modern Era Doctor Who Companions.
I also consider Gomez’s Master a companion. She fits all the fan “rules,” though I’m not sure if she appears in the opening credits. I’d have to go check. She also appears in the Capaldi Doctor’s first and last episodes
If this had been the final Capaldi episode, it'd probably be a 10/10 for me.
Peter D To be more accurate, Moffat wanted The Doctor Falls to be Capaldi's last episode and have Jodie Whitaker debut at Christmas 2017.
Chibnall didn't want to start a new Doctor on a Christmas episode though, and so originally there was gonna be no Christmas 2017 special.
Then the BBC told Moffat that if there was no Christmas episode, Doctor Who would lose its Christmas episode slot permanently, so Moffat had to rewrite and reshoot the end of The Doctor Falls about two weeks before initial broadcast, and then produce Twice Upon a Time before Christmas.
Unfortunately, given that only a year later, Chibnall would ditch Christmas specials for New Year's episodes instead, Twice Upon a Time's reason for existing has been kinda nullified. Still really like the episode though.
@@peterd788 Lmao! Sorry, just, remembering how everyone liked to shit on Moffat for a size of his run, and before that people did the same with Davies. And now that they're both gone, they're overall remembered fondly. Chibnall seems on track to be more of the same, but we'll see how it goes. Still, I'd bet money in a few years when Chibnall passes that torch, people like you will be complaining about the new guy and wishing he'd come back.
Didn't Moffat and maybe RTD complain about the Christmas specials, they were sick of doing them and wanted to move them or something like that?
Personally I'm not bothered. Twice Upon a Time justifies it's existence thematically and for all their flaws, I'll take Resolution or Revolution over stuff like the Runaway Bride or the Narnia rip off.
@@peterd788 Well firstly, you can stop being a straight up dick. His name is Chris Chibnall, and you can grant him the bare human decency of getting his name right. Second, he had several great episodes during Moffat's era, and several great episodes during his own time as well. The worst thing he's done is be unsubtle about his messaging, but you take that out and a lot of his episodes are really good, if not just fun. As has been said many times on this channel, the issue is not the messaging but how it's delivered, and I agree that it's clunky, but that doesn't make the overall episodes bad. It just gives good episodes a particularly bad part. Get over yourself and just have some fun, okay?
@@peterd788 Sounds like a you problem.
Also Moffat really started and ended with 2 of the best seasons, and with a great first and last episodes
This might be my favorite story of all time. It has everything I love about Doctor Who especially new who. Time travel elements, the Doctor at his most vulnerable and heroic, the Master at their most interesting, classic who IP given a new spin, interesting themes that are interwoven into the plot, excellent character work, drama, a bleak and tragic tone that still finds time for some levity (only took 3 years but Moffat finally found a way to make the Master and sex comedy work in a dramatic episode). It's a story where the mythology of the show comes to life and tries its hardest to kill its protagonist.
The preservation vs evolution metacommentary that Moffat's been laying throughout Capaldi's run is on point here: the different models of cybermen that illustrate that there's no real difference between the models despite all the time they've had to evolve, the Simm Master clinging to his toxic nostalgia as he did in S3 while Missy wants to do better, Bill not wanting to live on as what everyone perceives to be a monster, 12's dread at the idea that he's ever going to have another day like this one. Both Simm and Gomez solidify themselves as two of the best Masters we've ever had, Bill and Nardole show why we're going to miss them and 12 breaks my heart. Three years of his character development all lead to this and it was just amazing.
Yeah, it has all the aesthetics of my ideal Doctor Who episode, and then it takes it a hundred steps further with its themes and commentaries. It's one of those stories I could analyse for years.
@@nightowl8477 And yet Heaven Sent is talked up as the high point of new who.
(bangs fist against table) Where is the Justice?!
The "where I stand is where I fall" speech really spoke to me on a deep level. People often say I am too idealistic and what I do is in vain, because the World is a cruel place and kind doesn't go far. Everytimr I hear that rant about "not because it works, because it Hardly ever does"... it's just... yep. And I will not stop doing it. Because it's kind. Just that. Just kind.
Two points:
- Yes it should have been 3 episodes. The short changing of Missy's story arc was disappointing.
- I have been watching/rewatching the new who, so I am digging back into your reviews! Please don't stop! They have so much value!
Shortly after this first aired, there was a theory going about that the Masters did not follow on from each other. I quite liked that theory. It borrowed heavily from the whole River Song/Matt-Smith Doctor not meeting each other in the right order idea, but still liked it. The part of the Master's Tardis that Missy gave to Simm's Master is the part Degardo's Master was looking for on Earth during his first outing and Delgado was dressed similar to Simm in it, so the suggestion was that Simm's Master regenerated into Delgado's Master, not Missy. And down the rabbit hole we go....
What's hard to remember in this episode, is that every single interaction and conversation that the doctor has with Bill, she is a cyberman. The doctor heard this through a Cyberman, we don't. And I sometimes forget that.
The Master killing himself to avoid helping the Doctor is very much in character for Simm’s Master and feels more a direct line to the Master Whittaker’s Doctor meets.
Another thing about 14:02, Bill isn't out to her foster mother. I always took it as Bill being happy to be seen for who she is by someone that's as involved in her life as the Doctor is. Real tearjerker either way.
Let throw this out there....the reason why the doctor ended up being where the master had been stranded is that the tardis knew it and put the doctor where he needed to be. The tardis always makes sure the doctor is where the doctor is needed....good or bad.
That’s how I, saw it!
I believe that the Christmas special works as his regeneration episode, bc of the contraste of 12th and 11th
Matt smith regenerate fighting everybody, and Capaldi fighting nobody
I agree. I think Capaldi’s Doctor earns this “coda” in the (final?) Christmas special. He regenerates with lighter hearts. Otherwise, he’d believe Bill had died because he trusted Missy who walked out on him anyway.
I think there is something beautifully poetic about Master shooting himself in the back... And I guess Moffat thought too, because he literally has Simm spell the symbolism out to us like we're freaking 3 old. That's so lame! "Look at how clever I am, audience"
Maybe Chibnall ghostwrote that part. "Hmm... Steven, I think you're being a bit too subtle there, can I make a little adjustment?"
"Chris, you just wrote 'Master;' in front of my notes"
"Yes"
I can't remember if it was you or another reviewer who pointed it out before but Bill's line about her sexuality is also heartwarming when you remember that she wasn't out to her foster mother. But she came out to the Doctor on their very first meeting and he's always known. Her saying how she's glad he knows that is to show how she thinks of him as family, probably more so than anyone else. I love their relationship so much for that, it's the best one since Ten and Donna - basically whenever New Who tries not to make the Doctor/Companion relationship overly romantic, it's great.
22:06 Just to nitpick, Bill didn’t actually choose to _not_ become human in the episode. Heather said “before you choose, let me show you around”, so we don’t know whether Bill chose to become human again.
Imagine if 12 regenerated in The Doctor Falls, then 13 stumbles into the icy bit and meets 1
Absolutely the best season finale of the revival era! And Peter Capaldi remains firmly my favorite of the modern Doctors even if his seasons were some of the most uneven. I constantly advocate to my friends to just give this final series of his a chance, and those that have always come back raving about this episode!
Love this episode so much. The chemistry between Missy and The Master brings such chaos to the screen. They captured my attention far more than The Doctor did. The fact theirs now more multi Master stories which I enjoy greatly.
I think you're wrong, I think this ending would be in character for the Classic Master as well. Yes, the Master cares about survival so much, but you forget also how selfish and auto-destructive he is. It's like that bit in the Sixth Day. The guy clones himself, and the clone just callously takes off his clothes as he is dying.
"You don't care?"
"Would you?"
The moment there are two Masters in the room, even if they are the same regeneration, he stops considering that other person himself. He is out for himself, the present himself, not a past Master or a future Master.
One of the very best episodes of Who, ever! Cementing Capaldi spot as the most Magnificent of nu who Doctors.
I love this episode to no end. Every time i rewatch it i just find more about it that's excellent
The Doctor’s speech also resolves an issue I’d had with Tennant and Smith’s: They were often too confident and would more likely say that they do what they do because it always works out. There is something uplifting about Capaldi’s Doctor admitting that doing the right thing is “hard” and often doesn’t have a happy ending, but you do it anyway. It’s a more mature philosophy. It also reminds me of my favorite line from the series ANGEL: “If nothing we do matters, then all that matters is what we do."
So how do i even express my thoughts about this episode. Its so much if a fricking masterpiece. Okay lets begin with my only complaint and its a nitpick,The unnecessary forced 'feminist' sentences -'better than all the boys','is the future gonna be all girl'
Just writing about this episode is tearing me up. So when i first watched this episode i liked it quiet a lot,i enjoyed it more than WEAT. But after thinking about these episodes i though WEAT was better cause it was more focused.
Then i rewatched both of these episodes and i thought both were masterpieces. And then i kept watching doctor falls monthly,and my god this story is the perfect doctor who finale(not just in sense of a series but for the show overall)
Okay ill keep rambling so lets do this character wise this time
Survivors:-All were so interesting and i felt so much for them
Nardole:-Perfect,Fricking perfect the perfect exit for nardole,he was so damm awesome . This shows how to create a 4 people tardis give them all different functions and let them be from different eras.
Bill:- Wow another perfect ending i LOVED the ending with heather(it was sweet af and also no burying gays was NOICE)This episode hits you so much with emotional Bill moments even as someone who doesnt love her as much the average whovian these moments hit me so damm much
Okay lets switch up and talk about the music,direction and production ALL ARE AMAZING,Return of shepards boy,where there's tears there's hope,etc
Talalay did a phenomenal job here the bill/cyberman shots are all fricking perfect .The production looks slick af.
Okay ive been avoiding to talk about the timelord elephants in the room cause i cant articulate how perfect they are here but im gonna try my best.
This is THE BEST master story in all of doctor who(including big finish) imo,Ik people think the master was wasted here but i couldnt disagree more. This is my favorite version of John Simm easily he is so goddam brilliant.
Missy is my favorite version of the master and this is the episode that made me LOVE missy to death. Her performance is genuinely oscar worthy ,her expressions and mannerisms are so goddam perfect. The ending for the master's SO FRICKING PERFECT,MOFFAT YOU EVIL GENIUS.' this is where we have always been going...'Like wow just wow,The master's end is one of the best dr who moments ever.
Also i have been double avoiding talking about PETER MF CAPALDI,this is the 2nd best performance from an actor in doctor who(cause the best thing in fiction 'Heaven Sent' exists) this performance should have given capaldi 5 oscars he is so goddam awesome. He is tied for my favorite doctor with 11.
Even with garbage scripts(hell bent) Capaldi always gave his 110% he was perfect in every damm way. His interaction with everyone in this story and all others is fricking perfect.
Now lets talk about my 2nd favorite doctor who monologue(i consider all of heaven sent to be a monologue) This is one the best things Moffat has ever written
This monologue explains the meaning of doctor who itself. This is the doctor explaining it all its about his relation to 'ordinary people',the places he visits,the monsters he fights, his companions,his best friend and most importantly to himself. this is the doctor is laying it all down for his best friend to just be in the light. My God this is PERFECT SO GODDAMM PERFECT...
I ADORE the cybermen evolving idea so damm much. Also all ending are perfect Nardoles,Bills,Missys and 12s
If you wish to or hate TUAT (and/or)13s era (i dont hate either)you can treat this as the Finale of the show . Just assume that the story ends at 'no stars' or that bill heather resue him to the tardis and he doesnt regenerate...
This has some of the best moments of the enitire show in just an hr(u cant be angry,just kind,masters die,nardoles exit,goodbye to bill,no stars,etc)
So in conclusion this is my 2nd favorite new who episode and in my top 5 favorite stories in the whoviverse.I ADORE THIS EPISODE SO DAMM MUCH
Moffat you are offcialy forgiven for Hell bent thank you for this goddam masterpiece.
10/10 #whereistandiswhereifall
Nice to see some love for this half of the story, often gets overshadowed by the previous instalment.
And as for this not being the end of Capaldi's run... It was originally intended to be. 12 was going to regenerate in this episode but when Moffat learned Chibnall wouldn't have started with the 2017 Christmas special, he wrote an additional story to keep the Christmas slot (Which became kinda redundant). That being said, Twice Upon A Time is also a great story IMO
Edit: Your talk on Capaldi's progression and 12 not wanting to lose who he's become is just so beautiful. He's the first Doctor I watched live from start to finish, so to see that gradual progression occur over 4 years was something else. Smith may be my favourite Doctor, but Capaldi is the BEST Doctor!
So cool that you finally reevaluated this wonderful episode, Nathaniel. I'm sure the Christmas Special will be as big a surprise, imho, it's THAT GOOD!
Capaldi is the best. Can listen to his speeches all day.
6:42 what a wonderful performance.
That might just be the most important moment of the episode to me.
Of the over 2 dozen Modern Who Companions, Bill won me over in just 1 Season to be a Top 5 Companion of The Doctor.
I would’ve loved this team for the entire Capaldi run.
Sorry the engagement’s falling I always love when I see one of your videos has been published no matter what it is, but i started by watching your doctor who content!
I love to hear you talk so highly of this episodes. It's one of my absolute favourites of Capaldi's era. And while my highlights of the episode are 100% the kindness speech and the no stars scene, the episode is just fantastic all around. Peter Capaldie and Pearl Mackie did an outstanding job. But I have to admit, the delayed regeneration does bother me, because it would've been the perfect end to this story.
Let me interact a bit more, cause I’ve been one of those viewers who fell back on watching your doctor reviews. (Laughs nervously) 😬🥺🥲
Im late to watching this so you prolly won’t see BUT!!
I’m so glad this one grew on you! I remember your original take was a little more “eh - it was fine” and if I recall, you didn’t think bringing the Master back added anything. That you liked him in his disguise and reveal, but that he seemed only here as a vehicle to kill Missy.
I LOVED MISSY AND MASTER TOGETHER SO MUCH - mostly it was the silent subtle impossible silliness of it (like you mention the eyeliner moment) - but the belly laughter at the double homicide of themselves was everything.
❤️
I remember being confused by the line where she reminds the doctor she's a lesbian when I watched and this explanation makes so much sense
Great review of a great episode. Thank you!
I'm always distracted by one of the items on your shelves. I've given up trying to figure out what it is. The yellow plushie-type thing just above the lava lamp. What the hell is that?
It’s a tachikoma from Ghost in the Shell.
Finally the Twelfth Doctor I wanted materialised here in this finale it just took three series to get there.
This two-parter makes up what's easily my favorite Doctor Who story overall. I just can't get enough of it. I'm not much of a rewatcher, but I can watch this one over and over and never tire.
12:08 Thing is, I think the Master avoiding death in the classic series was just his drive for control, not self-preservation unto itself. Not terrified of dying itself just dying without it being on his own terms and not having the last word. Ainley (Survival and Logopolis) went to life-risking lengths to attain whatever amount of control he could, Beavers told Death to shut up and give him his identity back. I believe that, no matter which incarnation, if you offer the Master a choice between life or agency, they will always choose the latter.
I bet you were clawing to reference Last of the Time Lords, despite its reputation hahaha.
_"How about that? I win!"_ is possibly my favourite Master line ever, purely for its perfect summary of his motivations (everything you've mentioned, plus also his bitter rivalry with the Doctor).
@@nightowl8477 *It's almost a good story, Nightowl, it's so close to being good, damnit!!*
But yeah that's probably my favourite as well. I also love Jacobi screaming "that is not my name." God only knows how he would have reacted to Missy
Well I know now thanks to Masterful
Also, the master very much enjoys wearing costumes when nobody is around. Look at Time Flight.
I loved this episode except for the cop-out bit with Heather. I know that there are plenty of differences between the two situations but I couldn't view Bill flying off with Heather as anything other than a retread of the Clara and Ashildr / Me "long way 'round" ending in Hell Bent.
Yeah I do wish it wasn’t a bit evocative of that. But I’ve got enough distance now to not hold it against this episode.
When we see Bill delivering her lines from her POV I try to imagine them in the Cyberman voice & inflection since that is how the Doctor actually hears it (Im mostly thinking about the "kinda people my own age" and lesbian identity thing.) It's kind of chilling! Bill is speaking from the heart, but there isnt a heart in the Cyberman's voice. This is one of my favorite episodes of all time and I enjoyed your review - I guess the only nit Id like to pick is turning the sonic screwdriver into an ultimate weapon. Its used that way sometimes, but the Doctor isnt supposed to carry a gun - by choice! But when the sonic becomes a weapon, it goes against the grain. Still, how satisfying was it to see him blow up Cybermen while repeating the list of planets they took over or destroyed!
Thanks for keeping up the good work Nathaniel.
The Doctor’s ‘Just be Kind’ plea to Missy & the Master is a great bookend to mini monologue in Oxygen.
At the fear of getting the Attack Eyebrows, the moments come off better than any of the morality lessons/moments in the last 2 series by far.
I always figured bill saying "you know I'm all about women and people my own age" was her kind of saying she loves him but not quite saying it.
I've heard someone saying it's about how comfortable she is with the doctor, when you think that her own foster mother doesn't know those things about her.
Either way if bill wants to walk around with wearing I ❤ girls t-shirt and a flashing "I'm gay" hat then that would be entirely her choice anyway.
That was my initial take from that interaction . A profession of platonic love and appreciation rather than romantic.
@@KaiMichelbydesign I suppose it can be however you choose interpret it. Her smile though when she says "I'm glad you know that" almost if she was so happy someone cares so much about her despite knowing her for who she is, and also not seeing her in any kind of sexual or romantic way. Its never really established why her foster mother doesn't know shes gay, but it doesn't seem like shes hiding it. It does just seem like bill feels she shouldn't have to tell her. She should just know. She does do the odd little drop in conversation but the foster mother never picks up on it. Again she never actually tells the doctor shes gay. She just casually mentions crushes and dates, and the doctor never gives any reaction to it. No "hang on SHE?" Or the awkward "oh right you're gay! Yh that's cool, I'm cool with that, yh my freinds brothers best friend is gay, so yh cool" which I imagine happens alot.
It's a sweet moment anyway.
@@k.stewart007 yes, the doctor reacts in the ideal manner. Lol. Like it’s a normal function of life and I love that. 🤗
This is why Bill and the Doctor are probably my favorite Doctor/Companion team from the new series. I was so glad that Bill got a "happy ending" of sorts that didn't diminish what had happened to her over the course of the series, and that her journey dovetailed with the Doctor's own so beautifully here. Capaldi is, as always, amazing. My favorite Doctor changes depending on what I've watched recently, but he is always in my top 3, and frequently is my top Doctor (depends on whether I'm putting classic Doctors in the mix, because McCoy is *my* Doctor). Stories like this one are the reason that I never see series 10 on the shelves at the used bookstore - everything else from new Who is up at some point or another, but I still need the Blu-Ray for this series on my shelf, and I wanted to pick it up local, but it is never, ever there. People don't want to give it up, and that makes me happy. Even if it means I'm probably going to have to order it online (I do thankfully own the series on Amazon Prime, so I can rewatch).
Episodes like these have so many emotional character moments, and still lots of major intense conflict and action tying it all together. How do they do it??
Edit- Didn't remember the Monks era mental training thing too, that's interesting, makes the whole series feel continual and full circle, but actually in the best way possible this time
Your review makes me happy 🌟
I've always felt that this twoparter is one of the best Series Finales ever. But though many loved World enough and time, several of my friends didn't fancy The doctor falls. I'm happy that I'm not alone. Agreed that the Doctor should've regenerated at the end of this story. He and Bill could still have been brought back at the Christmas Special to meet the First Doctor. It could've happened after Knock knock and before Oxygen in the 12th Doctor's timeline.
Anyway, thanks for a lovely channel!
My favorite episode of anything ever. More than any film, too. A++. Love this sooooo much.
Love this episode, some days when I’m sick of the world I watch the “where I fall” speech and it helps.
The way I read the line from Bill is that she was about to say 'I love you' (and this line is to say she doesn't mean that romantically), but then she chickens out
I think that the scenes with Bill and the doctor are very moving, and in particular the way the doctor says " no" when Bill asks him "we're you right?" is so sad. There was so much pain and regret concentrated in that one word answer and you know how much he wished the answer was "yes". Great writing and acting.
Another important moment is when Bill insists she doesn't want to live if she can't be herself anymore. Again very sad, but recall that the cyberman way is to survive at any cost. Bill on the other hand is determined to remain Bill at any cost.
Love your speak at the start. I look forward to the next episode ☺
Oh, and I forgot to mention, it's a tiny thing, but with 'Night of the Hunter' being one of my favorite films, I love the Hazran sitting on the porch with the shotgun moment. I remember thinking that reminded me of Lilian Gish's character in 'Night of the Hunter' and then was super-pleased to later find out that was totally intentional from Talalay, Moffat, and Capaldi, as they'd all gushed about the film.
honestly i think that the series 10 is may fav series. Bill is such a great premise for a companion (someone who smiles when confused), Capaldi is my fav doctor at his best here, (apart form heaven sent), the fillers are enjoyable, and ending lands very well. There are way less 'doctor is god' moments and more good episode premises (the black hole spaceship is a neat sci-fi idea). only the monk two-parter was kinda rough, the premise still worked though, just not really the later parts.
I will probably go into this more in the comments for what’s truly Capaldi’s final performance, but I must say Capaldi in just a couple seasons (9 and 10) sold me as my favorite modern series Doctor and perhaps my favorite next to Tom Baker. What especially appeals to me is that he feels like the Doctor ... all of them, not just a recent incarnation. By that, when this Doctor talks about the Time War (specifically in the zygon inversion) I can imagine that *this* Doctor was there. I just didn’t get that sense from Tennant and even Smith.
I loved John Simm's Master trying his hand at make-up, too...I like to think that Simm came up with that himself - I know he most likely didn't, but it's a nice idea...
12:00 The whole wanting nothing more than to live kinda applies to the modern master too though. In last of the time lords when the master is going to activate the black hole drives, the thing that stops him is the fact that it'd kill him too. The main difference from classic who though I think is that while that survival instinct is still there, his hatred for the doctor/ desire to win, trumps it.
I think that adds so much to Missy's growth since she not only overcame that hatred and need to be right but she even went as far to literally kill the embodiment of her old viewpoint and was ready to change with the Doctor.
It's even more poetic and impactful when the master kills missy because it highlights even further how much they'd changed, the Master was willing to permanently end his life, his biggest fear, without even a backup plan just to screw the doctor a bit more. That contrast is just insane
I'd forgotten the eyeliner bit too :)
Just watched this again, and enjoyed it much more than I did last time, for some reason. Other than Moffat's signature "single teardrop" codswallop sentimentality.
Nardole gets more character development in this story than in the whole of every-other-story-he's-been-in. Still a shame that Moffat doesn't want any of his companions to actually DIE - especially if they can go off to explore all of time and space with a girlfriend (of either type).
I thought Missy's redemption/not-redemption/redemption felt a bit hammy and unconvincing, but I think that's down to Michelle Gomez's Missy style.
But, overall, much better than I remembered it.
I loved this episode. I rolled my eyes when I heard they were bringing the Mondasian Cybermen back but the body horror and general creepiness were fabulous.
Doctors that have known regeneration was coming have resisted, particularly to my knowledge 10 & 12, do you think they should explore a Doctor who particular dislikes what they've regenerated into and becomes very reckless and self-destructive trying to hasten their next regeneration?
The Cyberman scarecrows reminded me of one of the dark episodes of The League of Gentlemen.
I’d love to see you discussing the 13th doctor and the unhinged (my opinion) backlash against her. Specifically I’d like you to reference Nerdrotic’s (cough) commentary where he claims it’s not because the Doctor regenerates as a woman that he hates, yet he essentially blames the actor for things out of her control - lacklustre directing and writing. “No, no, I’m not a misogynist, I have a wife and daughter...” (paraphrased).
I make a point of not rebutting other specific UA-camrs, because one aspect of this platform I never want to be dragged into is inter-channel drama.
The other reason I'm unlikely to do this is I'd feel the need to actually research a broad spectrum of "arguments" being made (so it wouldn't seem like a direct take-down of one person) and frankly I don't think it would be good for my peace of mind to do that.
@@CouncilofGeeks fair call.
It is a disturbing thing to see when accomplished people are cut down for reasons which are transparently sexist, racists, homophobic, transphobic, etc but dressed up as other reasons.
I read the eye liner as a follow up to the Doctor's comments about time lords having evolved beyond human conception of gender. (So, yeah, my impression was also that that was just something the Master always does - at least that incarnation of the Master)
Controversial opinion, if things hand gone according to plan and this was Capaldi's last story, this would easily be my favourite regeneration story.
After rewatching (every episode countless times) series 10 is my favorite of all of NuWho.
I just realized that despite getting the reputation of brutally killing off everyone, Moffat gave all the companions during his tenure a happy ending. River was saved to a Library with her friends, a family, and an enigmatic doctor. Amy and Rory got to have the life they always wanted, a life the Doctor could never have. Clara, in the end, got what she wanted. She became like the Doctor, drifting through time and space in a stolen TARDIS with a companion by her side. Nardole, the reformed conman, essentially completed his job of looking after the Doctor and got to settle down. Even Bill got a happy ending. She can now go anywhere she wants with a girl who loves her, and be back in time for tea. They all lived happily ever after, to the end of their days.
Sorry to hear your views are down. I really enjoy this series, especially while I won’t be able to view the new Who episodes until they are posted on streaming.
For me, this two parter was one of my favorites and really cemented Bill and Capalpdi as one of my favorite duos. I was no sure of him during his first series (mostly due to Clara) but he ends in a really good place. Here’s hoping he returns in a multi-Doctor story!
It's definitely one of Murray Gold's best episodes. I mean he shamelessly rips off Arvo Pärt and Ennio Morricone, but y'know, steal from the best!
It is rare that I have the same opinion of an episode as you, but now it happened!
I agree that Doctor Falls is perhaps my favorite finale, certainly my favorite “last adventure” for a Doctor in modern Who. RTD went big on prophecy in Journey’s End and later End of Time, but the latter doesn’t really tells us much about the Doctor (either that incarnation or the character as a whole).
Originally this episode felt like a drop after the body horror of its preceeding part, but I also have liked this more and more each time I see it. Great episode, great series.
I always felt the body horror was still there but on a more psychological level, as although we often see Bill in her human form its always in the back of your mind that she is in fact a cyberman (my favourite bit is where her shadow on the wall is a cyberman one), that always makes me feel uneasy, but in a good way. Agreed, it is great episode for other reasons too but this does add to it imo, its creepy and well thought out.
This is my favorite episode of Series 10
As a comment - Bill didn't die and wouldn't have. The point of the whole cyber conversion is that they don't die. They're stripped of being human, but they're not actually dead.
Argh, I have such a love/hate relationship with this story!
On the one hand, there is SO MUCH AWESOME - such as the culmination of Missy's beautiful arc (Michelle Gomez is PERFECTION), watching her dynamic with the Simm!Master (who - like you -- I also don't like much, but I thought was an interesting foil for Missy here), some wonderful imagery such as Cyber!Bill holding the Doctor's body is the mist at the beginning (totally a Facebook wallpaper of mine at the time!) or the Doctor holding a shotgun on the porch (which reminded me of my fave film, 'Night of the Hunter' - which I later found out was on purpose from both Peter and Rachel Talalay!), and finally - and I know this last one is kinda weird - but I actually kinda liked something really bad happening to the companion that the Doctor just can't fix. I just thought that was very daring and interesting for the show to do, as usually the companion is relatively 'safe' from what is going on to the peripheral characters, especially in a Cybermen story, but here, they TOTALLY WENT THERE, and actually converted Bill! I MEAN, WOW!
But then there's the bad stuff too. Sadly, I vividly remember back then a lot of commentary from many POCs in fandom about the issues with this story. Issues that really fly in the face of any positives of 'color-blind' casting - here especially because of the weight that they hold when the optics are dealing with a black woman. Such as YET ANOTHER black companion becoming a Cyberman in the first place (see: Danny Pink), but more importantly things like telling that black woman that she 'can't get angry', which is a REALLY big sticking point for black women, as that is something they often hear in their own lives.
And so it all really hurt for a lot of those viewers and I know that many of them swore off the show after this story, because they felt that the people that look like them on the show were going to get perpetually screwed over royally. (See: the TARBIS podcast or the Woke Doctor Who podcast, if you want to hear more of that side of things)
And that's just super sad.
And I mean, don't get me wrong, I really don't think that the production team did this on purpose or with any maliciousness, but I do think it points to yet another instance where you have to be careful about the optics when 'color-blind' casting and maybe even have someone around to tell the writers how bad this stuff can look, because at the end of the day, things that happen to a white character vs a POC character can read VERY DIFFERENTLY to the audience and can hold lots of weight.
And so yeah, taking Bill's color out of the mix, I LOVED her story arc, but you obviously can't make her not-black and so it stings a bit as well. :(
I'll admit here that I hadn't considered those perspectives on what happens to Bill, and while I don't share them I do understand them. And anyone who cites those as issues with the episode will get no pushback from me.
@@CouncilofGeeks Yeah, it honestly was not something that had occurred to me until I heard their reviews breaking that down. Which I love. It's always nice to get a totally new perspective on something, IMO, especially something that I just don't (usually) clock myself living in the world as a white-passing person. :)
If it's any consolation, Danny Pink was never cast as the Companion. He was the Companion's boyfriend.
16:02 Even though it's for practical reasons, I dislike that it's just those three designs (especially with how stupid the original, original design looks with the Iron Man style thrusters... also surely the most primitive version would have been phased out by that point). Although my head canon that in the command room, the attack was being led by a 1980s Cyber Leader going "Excellent!"
To play Devil's Advocate, one could argue that Bill reaffirming her identity by stating her sexuality means that that's the primary thing to define her by. By that definition, it's very unwoke.
What do you think about the John Barrowman and Noel Clarke recent news?
People always say Heather's resurrection undermines Bill's tragic Cyber conversion and death, and I don't think that's fair. Some characters you kill off, some you don't.
*It would be inappropriate to kill Bill.* She's a bottled sunbeam, _of course_ she lives on! Clara and Rose, I think, ought to have died, having been both introduced as tragic characters. But Bill just shouldn't, it would be the least fitting ending to her arc.
I've seen a lot of arguments that this should have been Capaldi's final story and, even though I get why, I respectfully disagree. I know it was originally supposed to end with this but thematically I think it's very important that we got Twice Upon a Time. Because Doctor Falls in isolation is an argument of why the show should end. It turns the idea of the series not evolving and stagnating into a source of horror. Things we're nostalgic about like Simm and the classic Cybermen put our characters through hell. The worst part of 12's darkest day is the idea that he's going to keep having more days like it ( it's the confession dial all over again).
Without Twice Upon a Time, Capaldi's run ends by arguing that the kindest thing we can do to our favorite character is let him stay dead and watch something else. Even though I've railed against Moffat going to extreme lengths to always have a fairy tale, optimistic ending, concluding his tenure and Capaldi's run on this episode would have been too cynical even for me.
Huh, that's a very interesting reading of this story. Kinda contradicts my own reading of Twice Upon a Time, I'll see if I can find it. Both work, anyway.
Taken from a Full Fat video I wasn't very impressed with:
The whole idea with Twice Upon a Time is _continuing_ The End of Time, not contradicting it. 10 is the first Doctor to state that regeneration is synonymous with death, and Steven wanted to explore the implications of that. He does so via Testimony; _'Is this the same Bill? Or a new person with the same memories?'_
In their final scene together, 12 defiantly concludes that she isn't Bill. She's just "Memories held in glass." But that's okay. That's what he wanted. Because if we take that as an analogy for regeneration, then that means he finally can "Have some peace." He can walk away from the battlefield, and die. The universe won't suffer, because there'll still be a Doctor out there, just as there's another Bill. But this one can sleep.
It's what this weary old man's wanted as early as Heaven Sent: _"How long can I keep doing this, Clara? Burning the old me...to make a new one?"_ Or even going further back to Deep Breth: _"You probably can't even remember where you got that face from!"_ It's his perfect ending.
@@nightowl8477 I do like that. I hadn't considered how the memories in glass tie into regeneration, good spot!
I kinda saw Twice Upon A Time as basically the universe trying to talk the Doctor of a ledge.
I guess the Doctor Falls in isolation is about it being kinder to let the Doctor as a whole, not just 12 die cause 12 is dead either way. Twice Upon a Time could still be about the Doctor being promised that there will be good days as well and it's good that the show continues but 12 gets to be at peace and let someone else fight the battles.
@@nightowl8477 That Full Fat Video was the regeneration one, was it?
@@Ben-vf5gk - I just love the maturity and tenderness with which Steven handles 12's (let's face it) suicidal nature. To me, _"Doctor, I let you go"_ evokes the image of a weary old man on his death bed, asking not to be resuscitated.
He wants death, he's ready. Ready to let go of being the Doctor. It's not explicit by any means, but I think it's fair to say that Twice Upon a Time does suggest that each incarnation of the Doctor is their own person, who happen to share memories. So, in this instance, the euthanasia of a hero isn't a conflict, as it usually is in media. The universe will be fine without him, because there's a new woman to take his mantle. He can go in peace, I think it's lovely.
To me this is the only real time in Nu-Who the concept and execution of the Cybermen has been done justice. I didn't really like how Bill was "saved" from Cyber-conversion - which is the antithesis of the process - and there should have been a bit more ambiguity to it. Leaving the audience to interpret whether or not the appearance of Heather was real or imagined by a dying Bill. But then again, Moffat had issues with allowing death to take place...
I always took Bill's line of "You know how i'm usually all about woman and kinda people my own age....glad you knew that!" as a wink and a nod about how the Doctor was about to regenerate into a young(ish) woman. The Doctor's regenerations are implied to be influenced (well, directly stated going by The Girl Who Died) by previous events, I just figured this was one of them. Bill was into women, his best friend was just a woman and subconsciously the Doctor was just like, heh, guess I'll be too.
Isn't Twice upon a Time an Epilogue?
I absolutely love this episode, it's my favourite out of all of Doctor Who
I can’t claim ownership but I read somewhere that with very minor editing this episode makes for a great finale for all of Doctor Who.
Don’t get me wrong I’m glad that it’s still going on, even if it’s not for me but IF the Saga were to end, I can’t think of way to make it better than this.
I think bill is magical, but in the best way it could be played, all the human kind qualities and the human kind strengh she showed, it want the training i think, but we get in action shown thats her character strengh, she showed all the time, but in a human orgnic way, that enables it.
Its still kinda magic , but well written. And build up. The magic of friendship if you want but well written.
Same how the doctor won over missy, he was just, himself, stubborn, kind, not to win her pver, but by example. Thatts why its a good finale, mofat does really put his showing of characters being characters that explains subtile but clear why, instead of him making complicated exposition.
Most people say that world enough and time is better and I use to think that to. But now after rewatch, I might be starting to favor the doctor falls for all the reasons stated in this video!